Grr it makes me really mad it wasn't dark and gritty like my OTHER kids games on n64...

Some people don't like toony cel-shaded art and sailing. We don't talk to those people.

Sailingslop

the long fetch quest ruined it

File: miyamoto-wind-waker.jpg (108.2 KB)

>>738750274
I wouldn't go that far, but it is definitely better than Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

>>738750576
It’s still many peoples favorite Zelda I’d say it’s top 2 or 3 in popularity after all this time.

>>738750387
>toony cel-shaded art
actually its one of the reasons it holds up so well today IN TERMS OF GRAPHICS
but it is such a slow and boring fucking game, long ass boring intro, shit combat, pretty but shallow world, its just fucking meh
a literal 6/10 AT BEST

>>738750274
zoomer revisionism should be punishable by jail time

File: WW.jpg (581.2 KB)

>2013
>go in looking for Zelda TP, they don't have it
>They have Wind Waker for £23, decide to get it
>CEX sticker blocked the bottom of case so I was surprised it came with OOT
>In the end, WW is a complete piece of shit and OOT alone made it worth the price

There's a reason PC autists haven't bothered touching Wind Waker yet lmao.

>>738750629
>I’d say it’s top 2 or 3 in popularity
not even close
overall it probably goes
OoT
MM
Original
BotW
WW

>>738750274
No actually it's garbage and I will never stop hating Nintendo for the disappointment they caused little me.

>>738750274
i don't even care about the graphics, those are fine, is the game itself that it's shit. Sailing is boring, getting the triforce shards is absolute shit and the stealth section at the start is one of the worst ways to start a game

File: 837.jpg (397.2 KB)

Aonuma babified it at Miyamoto’s request.

>>738750274
I can get over the sailing if I try hard, but I just wanted more dungeons.

Having charm doesn't make a game good

>>738750274
I like the part where you go searching for the third orb all excited about what new dungeon you get to explore only to have an npc give it to you because the game was rushed (:

10/10 aesthetically still
>>738750930
Wasn't it fun getting to Hyrule and there being nothing for you to explore?

>has the best swordfighting in a zelda game
>absolute dogshit baby difficulty
lmaooooo

>>738750783
MM and Original are not popular at all by comparison. You spend too much time on /v/.

>>738751362
im not basing my opinion on /v/ kek
but from friend and acquaintance discussions + overall internet discussions
i guess the popularity has shifted as newer gens are getting introduced to the series
I guess botw should be in the top 3, i know /v/ likes to shit on it, but it is by far one of the best Zelda games and one of the best exploration games and they managed to cram it on a fucking Wii U and it now also works on android phones thanks to emulation

tranny game

>>738750274
>>738750352
This but unironically. If Link looked cool and not like a Cartoon Network gag character then I might have bought it back in the day.

>>738750274
Why so many games in the 2000s have that beach tropical setting? Also its a nintendo game its shit anyway

.>>738750764
Zoomers didnt exist when this game came out. T born 1990

>>738751816
Says the disney adult.

this game is for girls

It wasn’t even finished

>>738750274
Needed at least 2 more dungeons and 1 more town island.

>>738750274
One of the best concepts. I wish they got to finish it.

>>738751816
It doesn’t have a PC port so it can’t be.

>>738752378
4 more dungeons 4 more towns (all underwater in zora world) and more access to old hyrule at the bottom of the sea and a goron village in a volcano protruding from the ocean and fucking Kokiris that arent fucking ugly

>>738752641
Zoras not being in WW is completely retarded

It really has a great overworld theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV9_iMpXv-U

The endless night makes no sense from a story perspective.
>OH MY GODS GANON DESTROYED AN ISLAND TO GET THE PEARL HE’S DESPERATE TO GET ONE STEP AHEAD OF US
And then you get the pearl, break the curse, get the Master Sword and accomplish jackshit anyway because he already killed the sages that provided it with power.

>>738750769
Why is Tales of Symphonia disc 2 in there?

>>738751238
>press A to win
wow, if this is the best I would hate to see the worst

>>738750274
Kiddyslop

>>738753210
It's far from the best. The one thing it does get right is impact, WW's feedback is incredibly punchy. Aside from that, it's OoT with smoother animations and pseudo-QTEs. The funny thing is that if you wanted to praise WW's combat, I would look to its item use since it's actually far from incompetent there.

>terrible combat

>terrible dungeons
>blatantly unfinished
>triforce quest
>railroaded between islands until half the game is over
>FF reused to cram 2 boss fights in seperated by one staircase

nope, still far and away one of the worst zelda games. Saying tis comfy is NOT an argument

>>738752747
My understanding is that the Zoras were turned into birds to prevent them from reaching Old Hyrule. Technically there are other sea creatures but I assume Zoras would be too intelligent and powerful. Idk it's just a theory.

>>738753586
>The one thing it does get right is impact
then it doesn't even hold a candle to TP, next.

>>738753596
Yeah, Wind Waker is fucking trash. You can just write off anyone who likes it.

tendie and consoletard tastes are truly something to behold. they would have a conniption if they discovered how limited their scope truly is

>>738752131
zoomers are nearly fucking 30 you retard. i played this game in kindergarten
t. 1997

Too easy and not enough dungeons.

>>738754092
What's funny is you can also say this about Minish Cap, and that game is still better than Wind Waker.

>>738750769
>Tales of Symphonia disc
Based lazy fuck.

>>738751238
Anon, this isn't a Twilight Princess thread

>>738750846
You're brown

>>738750453
This that tri force hunt killed the pacing

Just an excellent game that won over literally everyone at the time, even all those determined to hate it before it came out

>>738753803
You played this game when you 5? I played this game at 10 realchildhood

>>738750274
>Still one of the best games ever made
LMFAOOOOOOOO

that shit is deadass boring. absolutely the weakest game. i don't even get how people had fun with this game. twilight princess is way more fun than that game

>>738756480
Fag

>>738756480
WW had some funny parts and the ocean was cool until mid-late game

File: 1748080841210589.jpg (54.8 KB)

>>738750274
Both of the central gimmicks fucking suck.
Sailing wasn't fun and anyone going
>B-BUH HD FIXED IT
Is admitting it was a shit gimmick to start with.
The sense of exploration is fun for about 5 minutes until you realize you're staring at the color blue with random obstacles occasionally popping out of the water to keep you awake.

The fact that Nintendo knew how boring it was and added the Swift Sail to not only make it faster, but remove wind direction changing tells you how bad it is.

The Wind Waker, too, just generally sucked
The commanding song was just a pain to use and Nintendo knew it when they sped it up in HD.
Together with Warp Points being in stupid locations (fairy fountain that gives you magic arrows and none of the surrounding squares) vs Ocarina dumping you in actual useful spots relative to where you need to go as well as changing wind direction just feeling like pointless padding every time it's used, it's a shitty gimmick and the entire game is named after it.

>>738757797
>>B-BUH HD FIXED IT
>Is admitting it was a shit gimmick to start with.
Wrong. That's like saying "this dish is a little under-salted, so just throw it all away." Sailing is comfy and makes the world feel cohesive. I wouldn't get rid of it. But the game was obviously rushed and cut some islands so it felt barren. Maybe they should have shrunk the map, but they didn't. So swift sail is kind of a band-aid.

The only nonfun mechanic was changing the wind. That is the main reason to use the swift sail. Yes the game is called "Wind Waker" and it is ironically the lamest gimmick. But sailing is cool. The wind part isn't.

File: IMG_4196.png (1.7 MB)

>>738757797
Dude WW rando is better than 99.9% of games ever released because it’s aesthetically functionally and sonically perfect. Get The Fuck Out of Here

>>738758565
>Dude WW rando is better than 99.9% of games ever released
Nintendo drones are cute!!!

>>738750274
I like WW a lot, but the only "best" i'd give it is one of the best sound designs and OST's of all time. The audio of WW is actually prefect. If the actual game itself was a bit harder it would be in my top 10 easily. Even for a kid's game it's very obvious and straight forward.

>>738752641
>>738752378
One more big island like Windfall, a dungeon for Nayru's Pearl, two more dungeons to pair up with the Earth and Wind temple that you find in Hyrule and a few underground grottoes that connect to other islands, namely the eyed reefs. Maybe make the Islet of Steel a mini dungeon or a stronghold that you rescue someone from, maybe one of Tetra's crewmates or one of the rival pirates she mentioned.

>>738750274
Wind Waker is the only game I've played that literally transcends any kind of "logical" critique you could throw at it, and purely because its charm feels almost unquantifiable. Even the fucking sailing is so mind-numbing on its own but somehow manages to be THE most immersive experience in video game history. How did they do it?

>>738753395
Wind Waker is for adults.

>>738759472
This. It’s pure artistry in game form. Beautiful and perfect no matter what.

>>738750274
I fucking hate that I can't just get it on my lite I have to subscribe to dogshit

>>738753596
Still better dungeons than TP

>>738759472
That's the thing about the series in general that people never seem willing to say out loud. Anyone's favorite Zelda game is so fondly remembered specifically because of all the atmosphere and immersion experienced by the player. Without that crucial factor, it's just the trillionth action adventure with some decent puzzles and that's it.

>>738750274
last Zelda I truly loved, everything else has been garbage to mid. I replay it once a year and make sure to enjoy every moment

>>738760950
That's the one aspect TP absolutely crushes WW in, what a bizarre call out

>>738750274
You're not wrong. Kiddie purple lunchbox chads won

>>738761727
Facts

>>738761145
Based and Chad

>>738757797
>you realize you're staring at the color brown with random obstacles occasionally popping out in the desert to keep you awake.
Still shocks me how they repeated this with Prime 4.

>>738758565
>random dice rolls fixed Wind Waker's hand placed design
that's ridiculously surreal to consider

>>738759472
>I'm as a dense as a rock give me attention /v/

File: 177cdda928fdc06452db968affe8eff0.jpg (14.1 KB)

I like Medli

I will com art of Medli soon

>>738750769
>In the end, WW is a complete piece of shit

no one asked but okay faggot

>>738763559
Please do

>>738751753
Internet discussions are not a good way to gauge popularity. MM has never been nearly as popular as its fans like to pretend, and Zelda fansites suck it off because it lets them act like pseuds trying to find some deep meaning in the plot.

>>738761314
Everyone who says TP has bad dungeons is just parroting that one faggy youtuber who did a series on Zelda dungeons and shit on TP in it. Almost all discussion on Zelda dungeons on /v/ for the past 10 years is based on his opinions.

File: zelda.png (327.1 KB)

>>738750274
Great art style, charming character and plot, but wow is the sailing fucking bad. It's the problem with "open world" games currently but x1000. The combat is decent, dungeons are okay if not too easy. I beat it as a kid because I liked the art style that much, but if I were playing it for the first time as an adult, I probably wouldn't bother getting far.

I don't care for most 3D Zeldas, so while I'd say it's one of the better ones, the bar isn't high. Best thing it gave us was the cute girls.

>>738750274
>9yo when wind waker drops
>first time ever sailing in that never ending ganon storm for the third pearl
>that creepy ass thunder and storm >waves smashing the king of red lions
>dark
>whole ocean looking like it's gonna swallow you
>stomach does a backflip
>next thing i know i've completely shit my pants, full log, no warning
>too locked in to pause or tell mom so i >just sat there stewing in it until i talked to the bird
>still remember the warm squish every time the camera panned down to the boat
>fast forward, 17yo replaying it
>deep into a 3-hour sailing run across the >great sea doing sidequest bullshit
>gotta shit bad but i'm way too lazy to get up
>"the sea doesn't pause bro" i tell myself like a fucking autist
>just ease out a little to relieve pressure
>turns into total pants shitting, hot and heavy while failing the toad boss and link zips up a tornado
>sat in my own mess the entire time >because pausing mid-ocean felt too weird
>stood up after and my shorts looked like a crime scene

this game does something unholy to my asshole bros
now whenever i hear the wind waker sailing ADVENTUUURE theme my sphincter twitches

>>738750274
It's one of the games made.

File: 4fd72abe0eb1249440f69bd5bf2cec27854752142af4a89dc49582c86a35dca9.png (288.8 KB)

>>738765673

>>738750274
It's funny, OoT meant more to me and TotK is better to play, LA was my first Zelda game.

And yet, Wind Waker remains my absolute favourite. Something about that era and their water+beach aesthetics really hit me perfectly. Sailing on the open ocean, beneath the summer sun, it's glorious.

File: 520278928_122165365652512358_4348004988603419.jpg (229.9 KB)

>>738766237
It's from that early 2000s period where we were still riding the high of the new millennium, but more specifically video game companies also wanted to show off their water technology.

>>738765673
thank you for sharing now die

>>738750274
>Forced 2000s era stealth missions
>90% of the gaming is challenge-free safe sailing
>Dungeons barely half as difficult as OOT and MM

>"one of the best games ever made"

It's still way better than the average 2002 slop like licensed Rocket Power games. It's hard to recommend it over almost any other Zelda unless you absolutely adore sailboats/oceans.

>>738765025
It's a weird one too
>you have to go left or right first, THEN YOU HAVE TO GO THE OTHER WAY
yeah, now lets see Paul Allan's Oot dungeons

File: AP23047257648099.jpg (585.9 KB)

>>738766018
That photo of Miyamoto scares me. I remember it is from a real Direct, I can't recall which one. WiiU era I think. He looked like he was about to croak. Idk why they made him look so ghastly. Maybe he really was sick then? I know he's in his 70s now but even recent pics of him don't look that bad.

>>738750274
It had a couple good moments but was super formulaic and forgettable, just like TP, and both are soulless rehashes of OoT.
What you don't get is that LttP had more dungeons than OoT, it was still a better game in some ways. Imagine thinking you're a fan and being excited about a water gimmick when Nintendo should've been making big meaty dungeons with cooler monsters and funner puzzles.

Unfinished.

>>738750274
We didnt know how good we had it

>>738765025
TP is the peak of dungeon aesthetics, they feel great to go through room by room and the gimmicks are almost unilaterally impressive. Hell, I replayed Palace of Twilight just yesterday and had fun with the Sol sections, and it is verifiably the worst dungeon in TP. That all said, Snowpeak Ruins is genuinely fantastic on just about all fronts, and is a contender for the best all-around 3D dungeon ever designed. I would perhaps nominate any water dungeon in terms of spatial reasoning, but maybe give top billing to Great Bay Temple.

File: maxresdefault.jpg (99.4 KB)

Wii U remake was shit.
Jesus Christ what were they thinking?
If it ain't broke dont fix it.

File: Hmm_today_i_will_guy.jpg (52.6 KB)

>>738769240
>game carried heavily by artistic vision
>hmmm what if we completely ruin it?
I don't get how anyone could think the bloom and smooth shading was an improvement

>>738769240
Better gameplay and pacing than the original, but no one cares because no one likes WW for its gameplay.

>>738750274
Holy fucking based. Literally the only good Zelda game. Literally a top 10 game of all time.

>>738750783
>BotW
>above anything
>even considering it good in the first place
Opinion discarded.

>>738750846
>Sailing is boring
Wrong.

>>738769556
Maybe if the game started post-Endless Night and spawned Makar unconditionally for the Wind Temple.

>>738750387
Why?
I never understood people like this. Something inherently doesn't have to be childish because it uses a more animated art style.
Maybe when you get into the fischer price look of Links Awakening remake you can argue that but wind waker is no where close to that.
Funnily enough wind waker Link despite having a cartoony art style has some of the broadest range of emotion out of any Link in the series past or present.

>>738750924
>Made it accessible to 4 yr olds and up instead of 5 yr olds and up like other Zelda games
The difficulty complaints in a casual series were always funny to me

>>738754092
>Too easy
This has never been valid criticism of any game by the way.

>>738750274
agreed. It's aesthetically the best looking zelda game ever made.

>>738770056
People are that shallow. If something looks childish, everything about it must be childish.

>>738769752
Your contrarianism is showing

>>738770157
Yes it is. I adore Twilight Princess, but if I could change any one thing about it I would make it not so piss easy, increase the aggression of the AI and increase damage output so that the game's opposition feels more than half awake 75% of the time. Kirby's Epic Yarn and both Princess Peach games are also good examples of being too easy for their own good.

The worst part of the game is how you have to summon the wind from behind you to go forward, but since Link is using a fore-and-aft rig, a crosswind would actually serve him better.

that game has a solid start but quickly become boring.

>>738770096
nobody has had to study for a month to figure out how to advance in a video game. the absolute apex requires you to think for a matter of minutes. so what's the point of calling one game casual vs it's all brainless to begin with?

>>738750352
The only people who still parrot this point are Wind Wakerfags trying to deflect from their shit game and all of its actual flaws. You're like Democrats pretending anyone ever gave a shit about Obongo's tan suit.

>>738770471
>WW
>solid start
The game's a glorified tutorial until you land on Dragon Roost, and doesn't treat the player like they have any autonomous thought until after the goddamn Endless Night.

It's not even the best Zelda game on the GameCube.

>>738770605
based based based based

>>738770283
BotW is a garbage fucking game that has absolutely nothing to do with Zelda aside from wearing its skin as a suit.
>>738770286
Difficulty and game enjoyment have nothing to do with each other. Difficulty is almost entirely irrelevant. Also consider that Zelda games (and the others you listed) are literally made for prepubescent children.

>>738770843
>>>738770286 (You) #
Difficulty and game enjoyment have nothing to do with each other.
You can say that for yourself and I will respect it, but I will not respect that as some kind of profound truth. That is your opinion and little else.

>>738770509
I mean I'm not shitting on Zelda here for being casual but it always has been so when people talk about combat in the series it has always been a bit funny to me when they shit on how easy it is on windwaker compared to other Zeldas but to me they're all in the same basket honestly.

Some games get known for their difficulties in learning patterns like soulslikes. 5 year olds have beaten elden ring when you get into it so it's not like they're particularly more difficult but Nintendo isn't interested in alienating people who don't want to ram their head against a boss multiple times and so they won't increase the difficulty of the games combat.

There definitely is a middle ground you can strike with twilight princess offering a deeper more rewarding combat combo tree but even then you didn't really have any caliber of enemy making learning them a necessity.

>>738750274
Would have been better without a forced stealth section antithetical to the franchise's gameplay being placed front and center at the fucking start of the game. I didn't buy the Zelda game to play a Metal Gear knockoff for the first couple hours. Everything that comes afterward redeems it but truly WW has one of the most dreadful intros in the entire franchise and few of the modern games start off particularly strongly.

>>738770962
I feel like the hate for the stealth section is really just more directed at the players lack of control and not being able to get king of red lions until windfall island.

I actually cannot stand twilight princesses intro and a lot of attempts to replay the game fail when I hit the first section in twilight woods, after already dealing with a tedium filled village sequence.

In comparison the intro to windwaker is actually action packed, you have one of the best stories for a link starting off as literally just some kid picking up the legendary green tunic in an adulthood ritual paying honor the hero of time, and pick the mantle up to save your sister. Tetra and company is badass and you start a pirate adventure. Get a glimpse at Ganons castle and the stealth section by then feels more fun because you're going around the big bads lair.

Just doesn't feel that boring. Tingles bullshit later in the game and collecting the triforce pieces is really where.the game can drone on in WW

Fuck you, zoomer, stop talking like a retard.

>>738771140
>>738770962
If the team was so fucking dead-set on re-tooling a dungeon they'd created for ue later in the game, why not block off the unnecessary portions of it while the player's more or less on-rails anyway? Why even bother faking the player's "discovery" for having trod out of bounds? Sure, it's fucking amazing what the team was able to mock up, but it played like shit and the stealth mechanics basically get forgotten about entirely for the game's duration afterward. Nintendo loves to innovate, even when there's no apparent reason or benefit for having done so.

>Unfinished
>Worst dungeons in the series
>So easy it makes Mario games look difficult
>Terrible pacing
>Game starts with a mandatory stealth mission
>Game ends with a mandatory fetch quest
>All style and no substance
WW is ass

File: scenedani.png (87.3 KB)

>>738770056
It's the same with tv shows and movies. Pretty much every animated film is regarded as "for kids" and if you mention any sort of dark themes, you immediately get replied pic related. As if characters can't depict sadness and feelings because they are 2D and apparently every plot is just rainbows and sunshine with no lessons or values. I wonder what this type of person is like and what interests him.

File: confused anime girl.jpg (25.8 KB)

>>738750274
>replay this for the first time in 20 years recently
>dreading the triforce hunt the entire time
>get to it, knock it out in about 2-3 hours without a guide
That's it? That's the part that we have been bitching about for nearly a quarter of a century?

>>738771447
desu the tedium is the issue, really

>>738771357
>wrong
>wrong
>wrong
>wrong
>filtered
>filtered
>wrong

>>738771638
>unfinished
>wrong
Your third pearl and underwater Hyrule, sir?

File: fuckthis.jpg (43.9 KB)

>>738770962
Still not as bad as this. I fall asleep every time, I've never bothered to get past the beginning of TP and I never will.

>>738772407
This part would be tolerable if you didn't get immediately dumped out into the boring ass twilight woods section in the darkness.
If you could avoid that and get to the start of the forest temple you'd be able to then get into the rest of the game but fucking hell if it doesn't drag up to that point

>>738769782
YEAH, you can hop over rupees on the way to the actual content. You guys just aren't 1337 visionaries.

>>738770056
>Why?
BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE GOD DAMN ASS HOLE. All cel shading is, is smearing colors over the lack of textures you fucking retard. You know what I see when I look at Wind Waker? low polygon ridges.

>>738770547
Wind Waker is the god of the gaps argument in video game form.
>game is good!
>the dungeons are bad
>sailing sucks
>well at least the graphics hold up!
>because they looked bad for their era all along

>>738770580
Fuck ass game doesn't even begin until the earth temple, and at that point the game is practically over and you're straddled with the horrible co-op mechanics.

>>738772407
Whoop de dee, there's a two minute minigame at the start of Twilight Princess, that excuses the hour long fucking stealth segment at the beginning of Wind Waker. Then there's the whole grinding rupees for the sail, then there's railroaded to Dragon Roost, then there's railroaded to Forbidden Woods, then there's railroaded to an entire cut dungeon, they just hand you the fucking macguffin because god forbid Wind Waker have actually content.

>>738773287
It takes like 2 hours to get to the forest temple in a new twilight princess run and it's a lot more boring than windwakers intro

File: 1496191653040.jpg (81.0 KB)

>>738771447
It's the same with

>Play Ocarina of Time as a kid
>Beat it, have an absolutely fantastic time, remains in my memories forever
>Get on 4chan as an adult
>See endless bitching about the Water Temple

If I could solve that shit at 8yrs old, without a guide, on an N64 then anyone can figure it out. Christ.

File: 1764470788039436.webm (1.6 MB)

>>738750274
I really hope Wind Waker gets a PC port soon. I love it and 30fps is fine, but imagine playing at 60, 144, 240 or even 500+fps.

File: 1487939928787.jpg (242.0 KB)

>>738766369
Man, maybe I was just at the perfect age, because half of those games absolutely hit the sweet spot for me

>Love Wind Waker, even if I recognise it's not the best Zelda, it's my favourite
>Love Sunshine, even if I recognise it's not the best Mario, it's my favourite
>Love FFX, although not my favourite
>Loved Jak and Daxter, the best and my favourite in the series

I'm not big on beach culture IRL, but oceans and beach aesthetics are pure Ludo.

>>738773910
i definitely remember people bitching about the water temple before 4chan was a thing

>>738750274
It reminds me of a time when all I had were a handful of games, and not literally 255 games on Steam and 200 more on 3DS and 200 on Playstation etc.

File: 1489495528767.png (54.5 KB)

>>738774057
Almost certainly, there's no reason to imagine 4chan invented the sentiment. But not anywhere I was online in. The online space was a lot less centralised in those days.

>>738750274
It has a very strong start but sort of falls apart by the end. The opposite of Twilight Princess which has a painful start but becomes great.

Both great games. But neither hold a candle to Ocarina of Time which is just fantastic from start to finish.

>>738750274
If it just had a couple more dungeons and major islands it would be the best 3d zelda by far.

>>738770157
>>738770843
Games teach the player how to do things in a way that is fun, in the case of videogames they mostly focus on teaching the player how to have more fun (though obviously there are games that focus on teaching the player how to type or how to waste their money on gambling).
There are limits to how far the game can push the player to the global maximum of fun gameplay if it is completely relying on exploratory play and targeted conditioning to teach the player.
Without any discouragement or tests, the game can't push the player out of a local maximum for fun gameplay and they will continue to play the game in a way that isn't fun until they are forced to learn how to have fun in a way that isn't fun, they meander through the entire game without having fun or they quit out of frustration.
A more complex game can't be just as easy as a simple game, or else it probably isn't fun.

>>738775324
I get what you're saying but I disagree with the notion that games *need* to be difficult in order to be fun, or that it's the only way for a game to be fun. Difficulty can be fun, but there are other ways of crafting enjoyment. For example I think immersion is equally as strong a tool for crafting enjoyment as difficulty is, and Wind Waker is one of the prime examples of that. It's a game that just sucks you right into its world. As other said earlier itt, even the sailing manages to be engaging despite being pretty mechanically poor, just because it's so immersive.
Would it be a better game if it was more challenging? Probably. But I don't think it's lack of difficulty is really that much of a detractor at the end of the day. It's like an 8/10 instead of the 9/10 it could have been with a bit more challenge. And frankly, going full Dark Souls difficulty would probably only detract from it. I know you're not arguing for that, but I find a lot of people who worship difficulty as good game design hold those kinds of games up as the epitome of design.

>>738750274
This garbage will never be good or cherished like a real Zelda game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE2Dc1sx71U

>>738750274
Very good game but its missing 3 dungeons

>>738770509
play la mulana

File: tink.png (51.5 KB)

worst 3D zelda

>dude what if we got rid of all the gritty elements that were essential to zelda's aesthetic
>dude what if we made the ocean huge and empty with the same repeating blue color throughout
>dude what if we got rid of all challenge from every aspect of the game
>dude what if we told you how to solve a puzzle in the final dungeon when the solution was a door over
>dude what if we got rid of a few dungeons and replaced them with stupid triforce hunt shit
>dude what if we had the worst dungeons in 3D zelda
>dude what if we tried to give ganon a sympathetic motive at the final battle, never expanded on it and killed him anyway
>dude what if we added a multi-weapon mechanic but made it useless since it drops after opening a door and are all shittier than the master sword anyway
>dude what if we permanently fucked up the timeline
>dude what if we made it so you constantly have to change the wind pattern to even navigate through the shit overworld
>dude what if we made it so that the biggest side quest in the game involves a camera with an extremely limited photo inventory
>dude what if we copy pasted shitty enemy gauntlets all over the world for padding
>dude what if we made the teleporting mechanic limited to a couple squares of the world
>dude what if we had the first major area in the game open up with a shitty stealth segment for no reason
>dude what if...hear me out...what if we made the players farm for butterfly charms to progress

>>738767351
Yeah OoT's dungeons are better than TP's, but WW's are the worst of the pre-botw zeldas and worse than TP's by far. Actually I would even say BotW's are better and only totk is falters in comparison

>>738776857
>dude what if we got rid of all the gritty elements that were essential to zelda's aesthetic
oot starts with a fairy greeting a boy in a peter pan forest village

>>738750274
it would have been better if they had spent like 4 more months on it and replaced that stupid triforce search with the missing last chunk of the game

as it stands that part basically ruins it as a game. everyone who has actually played Windwaker knows that's true, aside from posers who played the first 5 hours and assumed the rest of the game was the same level of quality

>>738750274
I would love to see what an actually finished version of Windwaker would be like. The Windwaker we got is basically just a demo for the game you could easily imagine based on playing the demo but never got made.

>>738750274
Wind Waker is more memorable and iconic than Twilight princess

>>738777021
That's cool, I don't need it to be entirely grimdark but I don't want a toddler cartoon like ww

>>738777308
You never mentally grew past 13.

>>738777090
It would be the same thing but instead of the shitty triforce hunt we would have 2 underwhelming dungeons in leiu of the other ones in WW.

>>738777858
yeah obviously they should also make the dungeons good as well

>>738777803
I'm not the one defending a dumbed down game with cocomelon aesthetics

File: sariashop.jpg (1.4 MB)

>>738777950
You're just further proving my point by saying things like that.

My biggest issue with wind waker that not even the remake fixed was the water clipping through the bottom of the boat.

That's your main mechanic! Why didn't you just make a cull box!

>>738750274
the artstyle is too googoogaagaa
even after all these years, I can't forgive it

>>738777021
The appeal of the Zelda setting is the juxtaposition of its whimsical fairytale elements with the darkness lurking around the edges. It's been that way since LTTP, at least. The contrast between the Light World and Dark World, or the contrast between child and adult. The characters of Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask going about their lives while you know their world is doomed to end. That conflict is what makes it so captivating. You can't go too far in either direction or you lose that magic.
I know WW still has a little bit of that and I like the game, but I'm glad it was a one off and I think TP captures the Zelda aesthetic a lot better.

>>738750274
the only people who list this as one of the best games ever made were 12 at the time of release lol

>>738756480
>deadass
You never played it, you'll also never be a human being

>>738779082
I was that and I thought it looked bad because I had OoT in comparison

>>738750924
>Aonuma was in charge of Wind waker but only the producer for the sequel
>Phantom Hourglass is an actual game worth playing
Has this fraud done anything post OOT? Did he forget how to make dungeons after 2006?

>>738779105
Based. Im so fucking sick of ebonics permeating the english language and making it sound fucking stupid.

>>738779269
Aomuma is a trend chaser. He became obsessed with gimmicky controls, making the DS games all about the touch screen and then forcing them to spend the last year of Twilight Princess's development implementing waggle controls, an obsession which would persist with Skyward Sword. Then he became obsessed with the open world meme.
I don't know what happened to the magic that was present during the N64 era. There are traces of it still in the Gamecube era, but yeah.

>>738769465
Did they re-add any cut islands or content from the original? I never looked into it.

>>738780427
“Quite honestly, those dungeons we removed we used in other games, so we can’t use them in this version!”

“I’ve received many questions about additional content beyond what was in the GameCube version of the game, but our desire is to stay true of the story that was in the original. If we add dungeons then that will affect other parts of the GameCube version, which we really want to stay true to.”

“If it felt like there were maybe too few dungeons then I feel that what was wrong with the GameCube version was the pacing. It was thrown off because it took longer to get to certain dungeons. There was a waiting period, and then when you arrived there the experience maybe didn’t feel as big, as you’d waited so long to get there. We’re tuning the game to alleviate all that. The pacing should feel appropriate to the overall experience this time… We need to tighten those [gaps] and make the overall experience and story feel tighter.”

>>738781063
Sounds like an excuse, since whoever you're quoting is talking about the pacing did they remove the triforce hunt? the hour long prologue? Or what did they do to fix the pacing?

>>738781063
Is that Matthewmatosis?

>>738778997
You play as a pink bunny rabbit in the dark world

>>738782914
for about 2 minutes before you get the moon pearl, and that doesn't discount the overall point

The Minish Cap Zelda would have an outie belly button, that's for sure.

>>738769240
WiiU looks better

>>738773457
It really isn't, both games are frontloaded with hours of busywork. WW is just more colorful about it. It might actually take longer to get to Dragon Roost than the Forest Temple. More than one person in this thread has said WW has a great start and that is so head-spinningly baffling to say that I risk vomiting. WW has a comfy first 10 minutes, followed by a miserable 2 or 3 hours.

>>738778997
>the darkness lurking around the edges.
Pretend I'm posting the Spongebob roller-coaster picture.

>>738784613
people complain about the triforce hunt, but the forsaken fortress (first visit) is the worst part of the game

>>738785505
The Triforce hunt is the right idea though. God forbid a game where the point is to sail across a vast sea FINALLY lights a fire under your ass to go out and explore said sea. The fact that the quest is as maligned as it is speaks volumes about how badly the devs fucked their absolute home run concept up. The Triforce quest, by all accounts, should be the good part of the game.

File: sddefault.jpg (38.6 KB)

>>738759510
>look 3 seconds at the characters of this game
It's really not

File: IMG_5243.jpg (241.3 KB)

>>738786018
>can’t enjoy art if it’s not too serious

>>738782986
Based

File: gamecube_zeldas.png (2.5 MB)

>Gamecube Zeldas

>>738786198
it's kiddyslop

>>738751816
That would be Breath of the Wild.
>>738787337
>China has stepped up its game so much people no longer use "made in China" to describe a poor quality product

>>738787842
yeah and Spirited Away won best picture. Get over it and enjoy things.

>>738779516
>There are traces of it still in the Gamecube era
Literally only because of reusing stuff from the cutting room floor of OoT that they couldn't do at the time. If you look at the beta boss room for Morpha, you can tell that they probably intended something similar that they ended up using for Morpheel instead.

Reminder that every nintendo game in this era was gimped because Game Cube discs only had 1/3rd the storage size of regular discs. The stupidest anti piracy measure taken and it did not prevent piracy anyway.

>>738759472
You've never been on a boat with the possible exception of a cruise ship and also dilate.

>>738788964
not the same artstyle + this is much more childish

File: IMG_4765.jpg (166.6 KB)

>>738790427
It has the most complex and well developed villain in the series you dolt.

File: 1622100789183.png (727.9 KB)

>>738790639

File: IMG_8604.png (39.8 KB)

>>738790721
KEK

>>738789215
F

File: Legend Of Zelda Twilight Princess Artwork #01.png (3.1 MB)

>>738750274

Fuck. I posted the wrong pic by accident

File: 1770061316381994.png (194.1 KB)

>>738750769
>There's a reason PC autists haven't bothered touching Wind Waker yet lmao.

>>738752641
okay pedo

>>738791382
soon...

File: 1370763418202.jpg (46.1 KB)

>>738750274

This is literally the first and only Zelda game I have played (once I got a steam deck and was trying different emulators),I think it was nice,it's especially nice when played during a sunny eastern/summer day with some cold beers,reminds me of a time as a kid where I saw the world and the sky that bright ans vibrant

File: IMG_0288.jpg (377.4 KB)

>>738794064
Ik I found your tweet fag. Glad you enjoyed it tho it’s genuinely kino of the highest order.

>>738791160
Play Dusk

the worst zelda

>>738795732
No you

>>738794792
NTA but im waiting for significant visual overhaul mods. If I wanted TP with nicer textures and higher fps I can just play TPHD with lossless scaling 2x

File: 1661724133400842.jpg (120.7 KB)

OoT Link taught TP Link (his grandson) everything he knew. He's the bigger chad

File: Chad.png (1.4 MB)

>>738797953

TP Link is the bigger chad because he conquered the pussies of princesses of two realms and also groomed a royal elf loli

>>738750352
I remember seeing screeshots of a GameCube Zelda demo in Nintendo Power and I immediately wanted that game. Wind Waker bared zero resemblance to the game I had been anticipating.

played it, was bored to tears. fetch quests to get shards of the triforce piece, grinding waves of enemies, poor inventory management system for how many items you use constantly, impossible to fail combat and platforming, expected to explore everything until you find the required island that has the shit you need to progress. it's a perfect game if you're 12 and haven't played anything interesting and just want to wander around exploring, but as an adult it doesn't respect your time and it's not very engaging. also 30fps which was fine at the time but now.....eh

File: miyamoto wind waker.png (932.2 KB)

>>738792789
outdated image

>>738750274
it's a pretty terrible game don't lie, replay it if you think it's that great

>>738786018
This moblin design is creepier than anything in BotW

>>738755498
I loved the game but yeah, the pacing it had in many moments was terrible.

>>738750576
It literally has most of the same issues SS had

>>738805263
>it's a pretty, terrible game
FTFY. It's very pretty. It's also terrible.

>>738750352
You are too young to understand. Gaming at the time was entering it's EDGY phase. If you played any games that weren't CoD or GTA you got called a faggot.

>>738807347
>You're too young
>COD and GTA
Cod wasn't popular until 2007. GTAs popularity spiked in 2004 when SA came out. Windwaker preadates both of these. More people played 3 and vice city through the trilogy than buying the original. If you're going to larp get your facts right. You could have at least pointed out the "edgy" ps1 and n64 games that were actually popular.

>>738807629
>You could have at least pointed out the "edgy" ps1 and n64 games
You do realize that WW was on gamecube, right?

>>738750387
there's a reason why WW is beloved to this day and even popularized other cell shaded games. tp on the other hand remains in its corner, too realistic but also ugly to look at. I hope moda can fix that game because my God there's some fuck ugly NPCs like the clowns, the talking baby and so on.

>>738807629
Vice City was out before WW little zoomzoom

>>738750453
I was so engrossed by the story that I loved to have more reasons to explore. the game felt properly paced for a first playthrough but it saddens me to know we'll never have a complete ww with the dungeons they had to cut.

>>738807816
Yes? I own it physically my copy is probably older than you are. You said gaming was entering its "edgy" phase but that had already long since passed.

>>738807928
Yea, reread my post. Vice City wasn't the turning point in popularity for GTA. I know you're illiterate so maybe ask one of your Ai friends to explain it to you.

>>738769752
I absolutely hate botw buts its easily, by far, the most popular zelda game of all time.

>>738807938
>>738807986
Children just making up blatantly false bullshit to fit their narrative.

>>738808089
Yea look at copies sold then come back to me. Trilogy and SA both outsold vice city and 3. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'll accept your concession here

>>738750274
Phantom Hourglass was better

>>738750274
The worst 3D Zelda game, looks phenomenal though

>>738750274
Never was

>>738750576
SS HD mogs it pretty hard. Original though, I guess.

>>738808426
People aren't ready for this trvke.

>>738808426
This but spirit tracks

>>738750453
>Game gives you incentive to explore uncharted areas of the map that don’t involve golden turd nuggets that give you dogshit rewards
>Millennials cried and shat and pissed

You don’t know how good you had it

>>738779367
Cool it with the antisemitism.

>>738751238
>dogshit baby difficulty
isnt that like every zelda game other than 2. who plays zelda for difficulty?

>>738809431
Only one I thought was difficult was early Botw/Totk where you're getting one shotted.

>>738808963
No Zelda divides me more than Spirit Tracks. The train and flute are contenders for the worst gimmicks in franchise history, but if you get over those (I can't) then it's arguably the last great original Zelda. It got a lot right despite its mistakes.

>>738797953
Wait, if the Hero's Shade is OoT Link, how does TP Link exist? I thought reincarnation meant the spirit gets born again? If so, then wouldn't The Hero's Shade not exist?

File: 1763350195595924.png (337.7 KB)

>>738791382
>>738792554
>TP recompiled first
I laffed

>>738784785
Oh come on I'm not saying it's some Dark Souls grimdark shit (and that's a good thing) but you're being disingenuous if you don't think there is an element of darkness to the Zelda setting. Ocarina of Time couldn't be more obvious about it, the world becomes less colourful and less forgiving when you become an adult. Places you visited as a kid that were lively and straight out of a fairytale fantasy are now in ruins and tainted by death.
The games are full of juxtaposition between light and dark, from the literal Light and Dark world, to child and adult, to the theme of dusk in Twilight Princess which is where day meets the night. Majora's Mask is full of death and impending doom contrasted against its quirky characters. Like seriously, what games are you playing?

I'm not saying it's scary or anything, obviously they're still kid games. It's about the suggestion of darkness. The idea of "what lurks in the dark forest beyond the safe confines of the village" is the soul of the series. That doesn't work without being a lighthearted fairytale game first and foremost - but if you strip it of any suggestion of darkness, it loses its charm.

>>738810081
You say this as if it wasn't inevitable. WW has always been a more controversial Zelda. TP's biggest sin, if it can be called that, is being hyped up as the second coming of Christ prior to release.

>>738805263
I replay it often more than twilight princess that’s for sure

File: 1774818091261817.jpg (189.8 KB)

>>738791382
Can't wait. tww has SOVL

File: Hyrule Kingdom.jpg (219.8 KB)

>>738750274
Do you think with the Ocarina of Time Remake coming soon, Nintendo would go back and revisit Wind Waker and actually making a complete game this time?
Let's say they add 3 more dungeons. What would be the theme of each? Maybe a Sea Temple dungeon? Or explore the empty old hyrule to find some kind of Time Dungeon? What about dungeon items?

I like it more than Skyward Sword and the nuzeldas on the switch but otherwise I think every other 3d Zelda kinda mogs it. I'm not necessarily an N64 tranny but OOT and MM are just flat out better all around. I grew up with Wind Waker though so I'll still always like it.

>>738750274
It was a major departure from oot and mm at the time, but it was definitely great and looked awesome. The GameCube in general had less dark gritty stuff than the n64, so it kind of just fit in with the vibe of pikmin and super smash melee

>>738810927
Who is that?

>>738810927
name saar pls

>>738750274
The remaster is 100% better

>>738812324
>>738812385
Anne Frank

>>738754092
true for TP as well

>>738812602
TP isn't "too easy"

>>738812639
yes it is

>>738812423
bloody basterd bitch

>>738791382
For what purpose?

>>738812860
Same reason as decompiling TP

>>738807629
3 and Vice City were also grittier than San Andreas was.

File: 1717093205775692.jpg (6.4 KB)

I'm playing this right now.
Fuck the wind temple. Horribly boring design with the most god awful music I've ever heard.

The problem with the game is the Wind Waker itself. Whipping it out to change direction, command someone, do whatever happens way too much and makes the game worse.

Its just like Sunshine, completely fucking mogged by its N64 seniors

Is the Zora Temple in Twilight Princess supposed to be shit?

>>738750274
its probably the first empty world game, so i guess its innovative in that way.

>>738812991
WW was even getting mogged by the handheld spinoffs at the time. Link’s Awakening DX, Oracle of Ages/Seasons, and Minish Cap are way more fun to play.

>>738813113
But enough about GTA3,

>>738813226
WW punished the handheld titles by forcing its art style on them.

>>738813281
gta3 we just use cheat code to spawn rockets and tanks and take turns lasting through 6 star wanted. didnt need anything in world.

>>738812639
TP is my favorite game of all time. It is absolutely too goddamn easy.

>>738813448
saaaaaaaaaaaar

>>738813065
No, and it isn't. The central staircase is one of the game's more impactful gimmicks, it's pretty well designed stuff. Morpheel is a godawful boss though, makes Morpha look like a threat in comparison.

>>738813448
>need to use cheats in the game for it to actually be good
lmao

>>738813226
LA and the Oracles are legit top tier Zeldas. They mog 2/3rds of the series, minimum.

>>738750274
its the second worst 3d zelda.

>>738750576
it's not better than twilight princess.

>>738750387
SPBP

>>738813673
Idk, I'm not really enjoying this dungeon.

>>738813113
It's really funny how shit WW is when it's probably the closest the series has ever gotten to actually innovating through its sailing mechanics, save maybe the very first game. No series out there iterates like Zelda does, this series is a master class in taking existing ideas and polishing them up to a shine. The most acclaimed games in the series represent the most successful mixture of dungeon crawler/action adventure/open world mechanics of their time. Meanwhile, who the fuck else was making a functional ocean sailing game at the turn of the millennium?

>>738814094
far from it

>>738815032
Honestly, I think he's being generous. I didn't play TotK though, so I can't comment on that one.

File: ss_d1ab60ade693c7ce90bcd0ba5400f8ea39e73edb.1920x1080.jpg (320.3 KB)

>>738814439
>who the fuck else was making a functional ocean sailing game at the turn of the millennium?
There are quite a few I think but I can't be bothered to play them since I don't like the artstyles.

>>738815154
Every Zelda since MM has been worse than the last. You can make the argument that TP was better than WW.

>>738765025
>I really hate youtubers but have encyclopedic knowledge about them!
Such a simple way to attempt to shut down any argument.

>>738815214
Fuck no, WW gets cleared by almost every non-multiplayer Zelda since, even SS and the DS Zeldas. Oracles compete with the 90s shit, ALBW was the best Zelda in years, and I'd even take EoW over the last 2 3D Zeldas. It's hardly a linear decline, WW is a near franchise low.

>>738815438
You are illiterate.

>>738750274
Maybe on planet retard

>>738815520
You said each Zelda since MM is worse than the last. I disagreed and provided examples. Where is the illiteracy?

>>738765673
Yeah I had pretty much the same thing happen to me when I played WW but it was on the way to the Earth Temple with Medli

File: images.jpg (30.8 KB)

>>738750274
NOOOOOOOOO IT HAS COLOR AND I CANT RNJOY THINGS WITH COLOR CAUSE IM SOO FUCKING MATUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEE

>>738815649
You brought up Oracles which came after WW.

>>738816161
The opposite, rather. Your stupid fucking post is warping my perception of reality.

>>738812991
Sad thing is Wind Temple is probably the best designed dungeon in the game. In spite of its boring ass aesthetic and Makar being anti-fun incarnate, it's still a fairly functional iron boots/hookshot dungeon. The only real competition it has is Forbidden Woods and honestly, that's just the Deku Leaf hard carrying.

>>738816161
You said "since MM". Oracles came out between MM and WW, and I would put it on par with MM, as well as games from the 90s like ALttP and LA. How am I illiterate when I read your own post better than you did?

>>738816360
MM is obviously better than Oracles, but Oracles are obviously better than WW. You'd have to be a retarded contrarian to believe otherwise.

>>738816459
I think they're equal. I love the Oracles as much as I do MM.

>>738811487
>Let's say they add 3 more dungeons.
Just fix what's already there and have better execution.

>>738816602
That's fair, but they're still both firmly better than WW. And they get worse from there.

>>738816238
I can see it, but Makar + item swaps + this, i was fucking losing it

https://youtu.be/94u3U4RxZ5A?si=qBo4woO6EyyNnM0Z

>>738816662
Yes, and as I've clearly stated WW hits a low that few other Zeldas since have reached. I guess you could say its direct successor, FSA, is one of them. Even then, that's mostly Nintendo hubris with the GBA link cable shit more than the actual game itself. But to clarify on my other examples, ALBW is not worse than SS by any means, and though I didn't play TotK (I had seen enough with BotW) I'm pretty comfortable in saying I would enjoy it less than I did EoW, which I liked almost as much as ALBW.

>>738817075
Basically the open world Zeldas are the worst ones and I don't even consider you a human being.

>>738817190
I'm strongly questioning your literacy now. It can be reasonably inferred from my post that I did not like BotW, to the point where I didn't even bother with TotK.

>>738817302
You literally just said that WW is an all-time low. I will not be responding to your bot self anymore.

>>738817413
That's because it is, and getting into why is a completely different argument.

ww,tp,and ss are all equally good

>>738817818
Nah. TP clears in general, and SS's Lanayru region by itself clears all of WW.

>>738817818
ww has its flaws and a fair bit of handholding, but tp and ss are just a drag to get through because of the constant interruptions

File: 1776480742895338.png (347.7 KB)

>>738817934
>>738818105
i will not budge on my stance

File: 1675220090519963.jpg (57.2 KB)

>>738818282
Impressive.