File: bat.jpg (1.0 MB)
The Wheel has turned once again
Waifus Will Save Us edition
Dominions is a fantasy turn-based war game created by two dudes. One of them is a teacher.
The game combines a simple presentation with an extremely wide array of strategic options, including over 3400 units, 1100 spells and 400 magic items. Turns are resolved simultaneously, with players planning battles rather than directly controlling them. It has simplistic graphics but is easily moddable and extremely deep.
Basically, it's an autist’s wet dream of a war game.
>Our pastebin (extremely outdated)
https://pastebin.com/wjbSA98Y
>Steamgroup
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/vanheimageofvidya
>Multiplayer guide/game hosting services
>Hinaserver https://arch.b4k.dev/vg/thread/548312356/#548526452
https://hinaserver.net
>Blitzserver
https://blitzserver.net
(Dom 6)
https://beta.blitzserver.net/games
>Llamaserver:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1212948582
>Documentation
https://illwinter.com/dom6/docs.html
>Tools
>Mod inspector
https://larzm42.github.io/dom6inspector/
>Wiki
https://illwiki.com/
>Pretender calculator
https://zollqir.github.io/pretenders-dom6/
https://caleb-distributive.github.io/pretenders-dom6/ (website down?)
>Debug mod
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3083231618
>Communion fatigue calculator (still dom5)
https://instacalc.com/53495
>Automatically prevent starts in all provinces with less than X connections (still dom5)
https://nixx.is-fantabulo.us/dom5ranmapnos/
>How do I change the fonts?
Replace guifont.ttf, guifont_fancy.ttf and guifont_texty.ttf in the game's 'data' folder (C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Dominions6\data)
>Fan art
https://thronebooru.booru.org
>Sloop’s Comfy Balance Mod
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zeDyK8Zb_p4lIJ0yp3a3ikMprRkmBCWvy3 1_4jBen3Q/edit?usp=sharing
>other asynchronous strategy games
Solium Infernum.
Previous Pantokrator
>>565308213
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>>566250698
>>566250698
No but it leaves it at 1hp. He cant attack the stronghold either without being excommunicated by attacking pandaemonium or getting into a blood feud (win 2-3 vendettas against them).
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>>566257685
me in the background
>>566259174
kek
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File: roster.png (15.0 KB)
>>566216443
First game will be on the 29th, we don't have the exact times yet because the pots haven't been drawn.
Also, after some consideration, I think it makes sense to have a roster poll this time too. There have been two suggestions and I feel like we might want a SI rep as well. If you have any other ideas for players to put on the team, feel free to suggest them.
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>>566256953
it will take a bit, but if I just rip the chibi sprites from the games, it's possible
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>>566250961
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>>566289363
I don't know. Archives go back to 2019, you would have to dig up old stuff somehow, from dead fireden /vg/ archives or something. I am not sure if /domg/ predates /vg/ and was on /v/ back then.
>>566290823
Wait, on /tg/?
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>>566291213
https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/4chan
https://archive.4plebs.org/_/articles/credits/
Finding out this shit would not be easy. Best hope some fossil anon is still here and remembers how it started.
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>>566291782
>>566291817
Well this thread seemed to have been the oldest big Dominions thread, a /tg/ one dated November 18, 2013 that seemed to have preceded /domg/ by a year
https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2013/28362785/
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>>566292293
Maybe, but it really depends on what you count as a start of a general. Random long threads on /tg/ or /v/. General on /v/ when generals were a thing there. Or first /vg/ thread. I think for me it would be when it started to be a proper general at least on /v/, called general too, maybe. Or at least close to culture it would transplant on /vg/ general.
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>>566295056
They might be >>566291817 as info I linked suggests, but you would have to dig for it. So yeah...
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>>566287792
Area control is already pretty important. Means no one can station dangerous shit right next to you, and you can place your own dangerous stuff closer to an opponent. In a vendetta, being closer to the opponent means they have to play defensive or risk easily losing a site. In a blood feud it can quickly lead to death.
Also, land is safety. You can assert someone's weakness if they have no cantons (or no more than 2?). That allows you to throw a vendetta at them because fuck them, weaklings don't deserve to have their own stronghold.
Also that one event anon says that gives you a prestige point per cantonwhich I'm sitting on right now.
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>>566302915
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Yo admin, Blitzserver has been fucking nuts today and I couldn't do my turn yet, but I have to go to bed.
I should stale in about 8 hours... I have to catch a plane in the morning and won't be able to get the turns in before that, though. Would be nice if we can get an extension. 12 hours will do.
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>>566292293
It's because of this thread I'm playing Dominion today.
>>566302915
See pic.
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>>566292293
>Hmm, sent a trio of mound fiends to try to Control the Dead it, they decided to spam raise dead before running away, did cast Control the Dead three times however
11 years of mageaiposting.
Incredible.
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>>566341275
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1893810/Solium_Infernum/
neat game that's more diplo focused
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>>566348039
They changed many nations, some more and some less. I'm sure that for the people who have a nation they play all the time, having a huge mod like this change it to a point where it plays completely differently hits the hardest.
I personally love Ermor and though the mod doesn't drastically change the nation, I just don't like the little change it does.
#domkill 10
#fortcost 25
#templecost 750
#nationinc -20
Very minor but it rubs me the wrong way.
But it's not just the nation changes. Many pretenders were altered as well. I would much rather the pretender changes, nation changes, and even spell changes all be in a separate mod.
Speaking of which, I HATE mods that are meant to add a ton of spells alter the vanilla spells. No one cares about "a new flavorful overhaul yadayada" just add new spells and make a different mod to change the spells already there!
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>>566360137
>Did you zip it?
Ok I see you said you did. This is what my zipped map looked like when I hosted like a year ago.
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>>566342421
Agree with third anon. Cool mod, massive overhaul but far more invasive than Sloops. I started playing with Sloops almost immediately, the second I saw Divinitus’ Great Creator, I started playing with that mod, the second I figured out Nationgen, I made 50 nations, etc.
I played DE once and will play it again in a few hundred hours, because the changes and additions to the Spellbook are so massive that, no matter how cool the new nations are, I can’t play it until I master vanilla Magic
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>>566313503
Thanks m8
Things went smoothly, I'll send in the turn in like an hour
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>>566375128
Email hina at hinaserver dot net.
You should throw your map onto catbox or whatever other file host so I can download it and figure out what's up. I am starting to realise that I am a little too picky with maps
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>>566379184
Thanks, wasn't sure how often you would be checking here. No need to email then: https://files.catbox.moe/mstt9b.zip
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>>566382315
Fixed, it was choking on DreamAtlas's metadata
https://hinaserver.net/maps/37
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>>566381042
Pleeeeeease. People have been asking for the tag for years but it's never put into the game. Soulless are completely and utterly useless in every conceivable way. They're horribly weak, you get a bazillion of them, you can't get rid of them because a couple stacks at the spear of your army can make your entire army of 1000 other troops rout so you have to keep them in the rear to prevent them from dying, and worst of all: they're an eyesore. Can't stand getting flash-banged every time I open up the barracks page.
I hate them so much it's unreal. Ghouls are better and that's just embarrassing.
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>>566384419
I was being a little facetious when I said the entire army of 1000 other troops. I mean to say they make all the commanders of 10,000 other troops rout which is the worst feeling seeing as they're literally as safe as can be behind thousands of undead. I hate this system
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>>566390763
>>566390456
>>566389853
Ok, hopefully fixed and rehosted!!
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>>566391945
thank you sir
can't wait to bludgeon someone to death by turn 16
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>>566384419
mindless units already count very little for HP rout calculations, something like 10% of their total hp rather than 100%. this is why you have to be careful to not bring too many ghouls as ermor because those are what will hp rout you
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>>566393868
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>>566400574
nah, if you go from 10 DEF weaker than attacker ATK, to 4, then you went from 95% chance of being hit, to 76% chance to be hit
but if you go from -4 to -10 (4 better to 10 better DEF) then you went from 18% to 3% and you're now 6x tankier against melee
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>>566400574
Not really. Statistics are extremely unintuitive. You often need to reverse them to make sense of them.
Generally, this kind of bonus is more effective the higher it gets, because what's important here isn't the chance to hit, but the percentage CHANGE of the defender's chance to avoid damage as the bonus increases.
A flat +5 percentage points to dodge looks the same across a range. 50% to dodge to 55% to dodge can feel like it's the same upgrade as 90% to dodge to 95% to dodge. But 50% to 55% means you're reducing your average received damage per turn by 10%, while 90% to 95% is a 50% reduction.
>assuming a particular opponent deals 10 damage per turn
>50% to dodge = 50% to get hit, aka 5 average damage received per turn
>55% to dodge = 45% to get hit, aka 4,5 average damage received per turn
>apply % change calculation formula: (4,5-5)/5 = -10%, aka 10% less damage per turn
>if you were surviving 10 rounds on average, now you can expect to survive 11
>90% to dodge = 10% to get hit, aka 1 average damage received per turn
>95% to dodge = 5% to get hit, aka 0,5 average damage received per turn
>apply % change calculation formula: (0,5-1)/1 = -50%, aka 50% less damage per turn
>if you were surviving 10 rounds on average, now you can expect to survive 20
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>>566419514
Got curious
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>>566413824
>>566419514
Thanks a lot for the explanation, that was unintuitive (at least for me) indeed. Still trying to wrap my head around the process you used to obtain the final results (I understand the maths but not necessarily the technique), I had forgotten how bad I was at probabilities.
Which may explain why I kind of suck at designing blesses.
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>>566428750
Gotchu bae
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>>566441176>mfw I just unlocked Forged Orders
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https://streamable.com/nz4ntv
>Astaroth moving and painting the entire map red for some reason
>Leviathan went in a circle away from my site of power just to buttfuck mammon instead
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Does elemental resistance not lower damage by double the res value percent anymore?
I did some testing for attacking a throne with spring hawks and while the 15SR lowered their damage to -9, it didn't further cut down the damage after the roll.
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>>566503589
I guess it only applies before the roll, so if the damage was 25, then it'd be 7 ((25-15)*.70) but obv a negative number can't be reduced further
In a similar vein, does anyone know if a Titan of Heaven throne defender can cast Thunder Strike? My testing has me clearing the throne no problem but if it sits there and spams T.Strike at A8 it could be a big problem if it actually lands the hit.
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>>566524536
CAM ON LADS SCORE SAM FACKIN TURNS
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Holy shit we actually had a fight finally. I underestimated how good the tentacle slimers would be. Probably because I dont know what slime does. But their 4 tentacle attacks are all at attack 12 and do armor piercing 10 damage. Pretty solid.
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>>566599872
The first mp game I won of dominions was with ma xib in dom 5. So they have a special place in my heart.
I got so lucky that game though, I had enough caves and income to make 3 twiceborned camazotz a turn as well as a very early magus temple for astral magic.
Just drowned the world in frogs skeletons and winds of death.
I figure they must be a bit better now with much more cave province access for camazots, but every time I try to make a pretender for them the new scales limitations really seem to hurt, and also their best pretender got price increases, so I'm not sure where to go with them now.
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>>566615645
why dont enemy commanders just send one of their men to bow at armies with kappas in them, to make all the kappas bow back (it's only polite, after all), spill the water from their head dish, and die instantly? are they stupid?
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>>566607652
10/10
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>>566627150
Everyone should attack zemaitia for bullying Pythium-chan!
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Because I am so nice I even did a double.
>>566626742
Any water nation is the threat because of the map. There are two ways to get to the other island that I know of and both of them involve rivers freezing or water magic I might as well not have
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Shall we begin gathering for the next one?
As predicted, Nomark dominated, proving that Piconye was a setup to deprive the Hoburgs of their rightful spot as the mecha cult faction as Illwinter feared they would be too powerful.
As promised, none of the factions seen in this Disciplegen will be returning for the next Allstars. However, we could include the nations (sans Hellenus) from the previous Nationgen game I hosted, if Chauville wants another strong and dependable astral nation, my precious Ssicossith, the winner of that game, would be available.
Otherwise, it will be a new lineup.
Do you want it to be a Disiciple game/Easy Research again?
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>>566599872
>>566530679
i heard that the mesoamericans are bad past ea in these games because their equipment never really improves like most of the other factions (ie old world humans) do
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>>566638346
MA Xib is even more egregious than that since none of their units have helmets and despite not wearing heavy armour, they still only have 8 map move.
Your only real usable unit is your sacred, and even they don't have a helmet. But also unlike EA and LA, you don't even get any unique blood summons like Ozelotls.
Most MA nations are relatively balanced, but Xib is notably at the very bottom. Despite having some decent (to outright good) mages, they can't push shit because a single ulmish black knight for example effortlessly 10v1s your best troop.
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>>566639586
They can summon jade serpents and monster toads, but nothing in blood.
They've also got the Balam but those need N5 which you don't easily have, and Chaac which require A5 which you definitely don't have.
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>>566639586
MA xibs win condition (at least in 5) was to get every cave possible and have them constantly making camazots. Forests for ways too. They were extremely map dependent.
Amphibious but cant fight a real uw nation, cave reliant and caves were super rare in most 5 maps.
If they got a camazots factory and good death income they could eventually hit critical mass on flying stealthy horde of skeletons spammers and assasins with black hearts and just choke people until they could force a very favorable fight on an enemy cap.
One other major problem I've noticed in 6 for ma xib is they lost native access to wailing winds, which was extremely necessary for them to deal with a lot of real threats in a direct fight.
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>>566637354
>as predicted, Nomark dominated
Yeah this nation is on a whole different league.
Just look at this shit.
>relatively cheap
>decent stats
>not retreating
>high protection
>no armor so immune to rusting and also no extra exhaustion
>high magic resistance
>built in 10 resistance to electro/fire/cold/poison
>fear 5
>built in slash and pierce resistant
>darkvision and true sight
>affliction resistance
>hits like a truck with two attacks
>one built in magic attack that also corrodes armor
Shit's got like 3-4 decent blesses by default. On top of the actual bless. Even unblessed, 4-5 and an identical commander expand without losses through pretty much everything the indies can put together, and so far they've traded in battle at a 1:8 or so ratio
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>>566641817
Kinda sadeg that my disciple bailed as I reckon we actually have a good matchup into you
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>>566643725
Already got an eye on that. But I also have a shitload of smaller, weaker but still blender-y guys with long weapons to throw in front. I don't think repel would let many of those hits through.
Then there's also the economic factor. You guys have been fighting 2 vs 2 from the beginning. Faesunth and I could quickly eat the one guy in our continent before he could get much help, and the second one relied on his trample devouring carps, which were actually pretty dangerous... but my sacreds are the same size, so they're immune to that and turned them into sashimi the moment they met.
I own the caves, most of the sea, half of the overworld, got insane gold and gem income. Map fucked you over in comparison
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>>566645739
You fool, I was planning to have an entire army of nature mages casting relief and poison clouds. Your sacreds would be sent to Kokytos before mine gather any exhaustion
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>>566647197
Interesting strategy when I can trivially paint poison ward
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>>566644158
Cute enough for a hundred apes to have given their lives to save her from the evil moose chud oppression. I will happily loose hundreds more, but no amount of monkeys can complete such a daunting task on their own.
Help now, or be forced to live in a doomed snakeless world you have created!
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>>566648005
>know enemy is spamming heat from hell
>'heh, easy, i'll just cast 10 fire wards'
>of my collective 200 units, only about 15 get hit despite mages being placed dead center of all of them
i've been... out played
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>>566648005
We'll see about that, I've been flooding the entire place with kited assassins for the past 15 turns. You won't get a step in without losing half your mages
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>>566643725
Yeah what happened to Frasene? Me and my teammate joked that the moment his dragon died he was gonna quit, even if he owned half of the southern continent, but I can’t believe he bailed on you. I can’t believe MY Disciple bailed on me either, especially since he had all those nice magic sites.
Ultimately, confining ourselves to a deathwar was what lost the Southern Continent teams the game. The moment Fukuichi bailed, I should’ve asked for peace in exchange for my vassalage. Since I knew Djanfrut was dead and I discovered that Nomark was crossing the inter-continental subterranean network to deal the deathblow. With 3 of us we may have stood a chance. I don’t even know how Faesunth was doing, but with his economy not being a problem I doubt he was doing badly, since he could spam free spawn crossbreeds.
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>>566649331
Nice, up until now I'd been using pearls to teleport my twiceborn 4CP mages underwater. Getting them converted for free is much simpler
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>>566650910
I want to see how you protect your armies from poison clouds if your mages are respawning all the way back to wherever you cast twiceborn. My mechaburgs will tear your unprotected army apart
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>>566651748
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I have a version with 40+ nations.
From that, removing the meh ones we are left with 36. Of these 36 we have several that are similar like 2 giant nations with Death Mages and a Vanir and Sidhe Nation but they go about it in different ways. Many Blood and Astral Nations now. A lot of Undead nations too, we got Ghouls.
I’ll make the server tomorrow and, as always, give you half a day of grace period before I take my pick for a nation
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>>566656459
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>>566648257
>Send pretender to attack monolith and storm hawks
>Stack him with rShock gear
>Script him to cast personal rShock
>Literally invincible
>Goes offscript and casts ironskin instead because 10 rShock seems like plenty I guess
<Dies to tstrike
Please make it stop
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>>566702512
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>>566715378
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>>566641039
Kinda wish they didn't hard nerf assassins so much with the addition of arenas that have so many extra npcs/guards
Getting the Courtyard or Tavern arenas just turns it into a coinflip as all your skeletons may fuck off to a guard/npc in Uganda while the ACTUAL target just sprints forward and one shots your assassin.
At least in the field they're all clumped up.
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>>566718139
I'm not even sure how you are supposed to use non mage assassins anymore. By the time you get to bottles of living water the enemy has likely already enough gems and research to fight them off. Vinemen suck too hard to beat even a few innocent bystanders in a tavern too. Kitting out a basic human assassin enough to achieve anything consistently is way too expensive.
It's even more dire if you are playing with an improved ai casting mod. Mages will just start obliterating assasins in the first round with mind burns or whatever low research low range nuke they have.
I do like the assassin battle arenas in concept though. Highly flavourable and creates amusing interactions, even if most assassins got vastly worse because of it
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>>566718893
The assassin arenas should have a high chance of the assassin spawning right next to the target, specially if the assassin is patient, or at the very least beelining to them.
The challenging part should be getting out alive again as random passerbys and bodyguards close in, rather than struggling to cross the damn room because there's a random drunkard sleeping over there
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>>566718893
Use these
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>>566719571
I forgot about the ammy of the dead. Least its something better than the vinemen.
Is there even any nations with native glamour that also has mundane assassins to use the shield? La Pyth technically I guess? Death is much easier for them though anyway.
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I’m kind of in a rut where I’m battling the AI, but I feel also a little nervous as I’m unsure whether I have the right time for multiplayer just yet.
I’m wondering whether difficult ai is harder than mighty (in my latest game I set them to mighty & aggressive but this seemed to just make them act like retarded bandits who respond well to a good thrashing low key. Also they always take RETARDED blesses and its getting irritating.) and honestly, I love the game but I’m feeling a bit burnt out just playing the AI since it’s obviously going to be retarded no matter how many unfair advantages it gets in the difficulty settings. That said, I’m also playing the game as a yohoho player and there’s always issues with the cd key in the game that can make it borderline unplayable at times. I know I want the full release its just a matter of time, but also I dont want to overcommit, as wierd as it sounds. Should I just cave and buy? I don’t really play much of anything else nowadays because I’m in a state of constant transit and my shitty laptop can’t run much else. My gayass laptop can’t even run solium infernum on more than 4 players it runs at about 4 fps, thats how bad it is on 5 player.
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>>566721035
You would be more than ready for multiplayer. Especially by /domg/ standards.
The only realy hurdle to being good enough for mp is expansion. If you can get like 15+ provs in the first year reliably on a nation you are ready.
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>>566719571
Does amulet of the dead spawn more skeletons when casting Horde?
>>566669703
Shock is truly the most bullshit of damage types. Cold and Fire? 5res of either essentially negates them completely if you have any prot at all. Poison? Unless your enemy is specifically casting Venomous Death or something, 5 more or less negates it entirely.
Shock? YOU BETTER HAVE 30, CAUSE an A8 IMMOBILE CASTING 'SHOCKING GRASP' OR TSTRIKE DOES 45 DAMAGE BITCH.
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>>566711072
No, you should be able to just zip the folder and upload it. If it doesn't work then that's probably my fault. I've been meaning to give mod and map uploading some attention for this reason, there's been a few times where it broke for no good reason recently.
If https://hinaserver.net/mods/89 was all you were uploading then you're good. I just did up a quick hotfix to make it work. If you are going to upload more and it isn't happy with them, throw it on catbox for me to download
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>>566720996
From what I played, they are high magic. All rabbits get twist fate at start of battle, because they are lucky. You can only build palisades, but they auto upgrade into “Castles” called Burrows, where all your knights and heavy armored troops come from. You have Glamour/Elemental Battle Mage General Kings, which come from Burrow, forest recruit wide-but-shallow stealthy mages, Pseudo-Pans in the capital. All Burrow are filled to the brim with peasants, so much so that you get freespawn farmers and blacksmiths, as meat shields and supply&resource boosters, but they have homesickness.
Woad Warriors, your sacreds, can become Misfortune spreading Wererabbits using your Spellbook.
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>>566725165
htts://hinaserver.net/game/40
It’s time. You have 24-ish hours to peruse the lineup of 30+ nations, before I pick my own. Currently it is not a Disciple game.
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>>566741893
It’s better than Paionia. You go in expecting Thracian Solomonari, Dacian Falxes, special events involving Ermor/C’Tis/Hinnom/Rus/Sauromatia, horse-riding Zmey, Pricolici and so on, you come out with EA Ys but on Land and with worse Morvarc’h… and Dacian Falxes.
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>>566739135
Thank you for putting these together, anon. They've been pretty interesting games so far. I'm joining this one too
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>>566763279
>when you're waiting to see if your low cost high effect plan against your neighbor that's getting too powerful hits but Belphegor still hasn't done his fucking turn
BELPHEGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR
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okay am i doing something wrong wrt throne generation?
i make a new 1v1 small map, set number of tier 2 thrones to 20
but it only generates like six thrones. why isn't it filling the entire map with throne provinces?
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>>566739135
Angoburg, don’t forget your nation has access to the most busted Mage Pretender in the game, the Supreme Magus, so your Primitive Cities can be upgraded!
Believe me, vine-grafted hoburgs are much cheaper than Lamia-Amazons, but when spamming sacreds, you gotta have every advantage.
To the person who picked the cursed as fuck Very Primitive Forts Dust Walker Nation, you are far braver than I am. In your honor, I will also pick an economically destitute nation, should it still be available by the time the grace period is over.
Don’t forget there’s plenty of weird, gimmicky nations in Bigboys, not just pseudo-vanilla nations. There’s at least 3 nations that can recruit Sleepers and one of them gave all their troops Blind
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>>566800812
Never mind there's an elven linnormir lizard on my borders it's over
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big noob, i'm trying to get my bearings with what can/can't "thug". i tried throwing bitch-queen (15 invuln, regen, 3d6 wolves) at a province (cavemen) with ironskin, quicken, and blur, but she got flattened instantly.
what are the big no-no compositions that you really shouldn't send thugs into? and, when you've got a tough bastard of a commander, who can cast spells, do you keep casting after putting on buffs or do you tell them to attack? and what spells/how many spells do you actually cast in general with thugs?
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>>566806289
18 prot is what a normal meteorite guard has. Invuln doesnt stack on top it's reduced by some formula you can look up. Being hit by a certain roll reduces armor permanently for that battle or until you get back to base too I think. So yeah not nearly enough. Barbarians will eat your ass easily. You either need like 25 defense or something if you have low prot like that
Lifesteal is really good too since it gives fatigue back
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>>566805650
>(15 invuln, regen, 3d6 wolves) at a province (cavemen) with ironskin
Invuln and ironskin don't stack together. The ironskin would still be there to protect if the thug got hit by a magic weapon ignoring invuln, but that's the only reason to buff with both. Natprot and armor prot don't stack together additively either, here's the table showing the total prot when stacked.
Reason she got BTFO is cavemen hit very hard (28 dmg great clubs) and you generally want significantly higher prot than the damage of whatever you're facing to absorb most of their hits barring lucky outliers (that's what HP and regen are for). Anything hitting for mid-20s and over in damage will be dicey without serious bless/gear investment unless you bring a bigger badder thug.
>do you keep casting after putting on buffs or do you tell them to attack? and what spells/how many spells
Always attack, they're going to fatigue out and die if they keep casting. You want to avoid getting fatigue too high while buffing as they can be critically hit with higher chance closer they get to 100 fat. On that note, you want to have enough reinvig to keep fatigue neutral while in melee, or at least steady enough that they won't pass out before winning the fight.
>>566806289
For now you'd want much higher prot (think 25+) and either a source of AoEs (breaths work but also gear, see Mace of Eruption for an early option) and/or a large volume of attacks (like dual wielding or from a mount's hoofs/bite). You can make up for lacking these with damage/CC auras like Fire Shield/Awe/Shroud of Bewilderment, but these can be more prone to bad RNG and you should stick with what's reliable until you know what you're doing better.
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>>566808627
Cavemen are really one of the many indies which will utterly destroy a good chunk of sacreds/thugs,, but eat shit and die to otherwise awful units like merc pikemen, militia, ghouls.
>>566805650
Other big no-nos for some thugs are:
Barbs (unless you have incredibly good prot)
Heavy Cav (again, unless you have slightly less good prot)
Cynos
Bone Tribe
A good thug needs a decent level of prot (combined aim for like 25-30), some way to clear chaff thats faster than individually hitting each of them, and ideally ways of mitigating hits such as Mistform, Personal Ironskin, Regen, ect. For the Bitch Queen, assuming you aren't throwing her against one of the best indies at ruining human hp pretenders, just needs some basic const 1 blackplate armor and her invuln will carry her.
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>>566811335
Unless you have an immortal pretender or commander the normal vampies arent that great.
Vampire lords however are probably top 5 raiding thugs in the game. They are stealth and have both blood and death for soul vortex and damage reversal. Invulnerability isnt that great however as you've learned.
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>>566530679
They're simultaneously underrated and not underrated.
They're underrated because of people like >>566638346 and >>566639232 who care about muh troops when all you need is more camazotz. You skelespam, you make fatigue plays, you can mass elf one turn and then group up everything for an army fight the next, and and have easily accessible WoD casters
They're not underrated, because you'll never be able to choose your wars. 3 people who think you're free food *are* going to jump you at the start of the game and you *will* get bogged down in those wars until you're irrelevant.
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>>566805650
You need to live and you need to kill
For most thugs you are usually casting 1-2 things max themselves but you can also have fluffers cast more on them if its AoE1 and you can stack them up. Keep in mind encumberance is double for spell casting purposes, an underwater melia for example is taking 14 fatigue plus spell cost
For a big dog pretender like a Tiwaz of War I'm casting *skin, summon earthpower, fire shield (if it doesnt have it already from bless), mistform, maybe flight or airshield or body ethereal or something else depending on nation specifics.
Melias are an example of something not too hard to make live (awe, *skin, mossbody), but difficult to make killy (use the poison stick weapon with PR? fire shield bless or charcoal shields on everyone?)
It really comes down to investment, if its something big you can usually afford to spend more turns buffing it, making it fatigue neutral or positive, kitting it out. But if its your average elf jobber on a horse on a nation with very expensive mages you have to make do with the base chassis
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>>566817096
>>566810898
>>566808627
>>566806960
thank you very much. this is very helpful!
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>>566825227
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>>566845437
>get to turn and waiting for Belphegor
>time for bed and waiting for Belphegor
>come from work and waiting for Belphegor
BELPHEGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR
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>>566808627
does that table only apply to natural armor + armor or does invuln follow the same logic? i don't know what unit it was but i remember seeing something having invuln but higher prot baseline and wondering what the point was outside of armor rusting or something.
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>>566854547
Invulnerable is like natural armor IF the damage is not magical and IF the invulnerability is higher than natural armor.
If the damage is not magical, and if invulnerability is higher, then it is used instead of natural armor.
Otherwise, if the damage is either magical or the invulnerability is lower then natural armor is used.
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>>566858119
Enkidu?
>>566857925
Forgot to add Rlyeh for mind control, Erythia for incest, and Sauro for Femdom.
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>>566861227
still infinitely superior to human "women"
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>>566863220
Don't worry anon, real life comes first. We bully you for turns, but we wish you the best. Hope things are going better
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Are cave cows a noob trap on ea pyrene?
It's so easy and kinda cheap to get massive herds of those weird guys, but they are hard to buff, they suck in melee and can make your real troops rout because they are hard to keep alive.
But they are almost FREE. Mouflons too but even worse, but at least they give a supply bonus
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>>566867008
their spit attack is pretty nice, it's armor piercing and applies acid which is a pretty rare status effect. i just wish there was an item that gave tight rein, like the rat tail or whip of command.
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>>566867008
Hard to be a noob trap when they're almost free. Each one is like five accurate magical crossbow bolts. If they fire all their ammo and you've already lost enough frontline that they're all getting into melee, dying and HP routing you, you were probably going to lose that fight anyway.
They're great against EA Aby for nuking BOs, they're great against EA Agartha for tanking mind blasts. They're only bad vs Xib.
They're better in SCBM where you can fit two per square. Really stupid how you can't in vanilla.
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>>566867008
All non-national summons are a waste of gems desu.
The singular good thing from the entire Conj tree is Wraith Lords, and shit you need to boost/break into magic paths. But literally everything else? Trash.
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>>566871625
Yeah probably that weird pathfinding at the beginning where it did a circle and decided to fuck with mammon for no reason instead of my site which was RIGHT NEXT TO IT. Or maybe it has a max # of turns it's active then peaces out
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hey Sloop the DE "traces of a more powerful site" events ported for v1.11 are missing ~half the sites in the game (unless my Python really sux but spot-checking seems to confirm). Here are the missing events: https://pastebin.com/btPCT5aX
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>>566870157
That's too dismissive. Most of them are bad yes, but Fay Knights, Wights and Ether Warriors are all premium troops you can build armies around and Draconians are way too cost efficient to ignore.
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>>566872713
>>566874456
those are all lv1 sites anon
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>>566890254
https://streamable.com/zhh262It was a miserable stomp but I had no choice cause my supplies and money were dwindling. Not sure why mr coward never attacked as my counter though
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>>566874456
I was convinced remote is plainly better and did some math to contradict you. Turns out both options seem to be fairly balanced.
>traveling is clearly better for the first 20 turns despite the much slower progress, due to the lack of costs
>remote search catches up after about 20 turns. Only beefy mages like a X3X2X1 manage to stay ahead
But there's still some bunch of factors that my calculations don't take into account:
>traveling is riskier than sitting at home
>difficult geography and aggressive neighbors can reduce your traveling efficiency by making you take detours
>traveling mages aren't immediately available at home, should they be needed
>traveling is immediately available, remote takes some research to get going
>remote might require some extra investment in empowerment crafting/trading for a booster, which would delay the break even point
Looks like a few early game travelers, specially of the stronger sort, and then a quick switch to remote searchers might be the most optimal strategy on average.
Suggestions and corrections welcome
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>>566893115
Remote can be more efficient when you consider the types of terrain as well. Eg death sites more popular in swamps, and if you notice weird scales things happening that can tip you off to an efficient remote site search
Another complication is how early gems can help you win a war so spending them early can be risky.
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>>566894050
>>566894432
Another big thing worth noting that I forgot to write in there is that remote is simply more economical than any mage with an AGIIPT lower than 0.6, even if they don't actually search 20 turns long.
Like if a X1X1 and one remote dude search for two turns, the X1X1 will have gathered an average of 0.3 gems and the remote guy will have gathered 0.6 but spent 5.1 for a grand total of -4.5... But at this point the X1X1 has gathered an AGIIPT of 0,6 and the remote dude has gathered 1.2. So even if both stop searching right here, the remote dude will still bring a much larger profit over a longer game. 10 turns later the effort of the X1X1 will have brought 0,6 x 10 = 6 gems on average, while the remote dude will have brought 1.2 * 10 = 12 on average. Minus the 5,1 he spent = 6,9. Already ahead after 10 turns.
The fact that I assumed the remote guys is searching every single turn presents remote searching worse than it is. After all, the benefit per spent gem decreases as time goes on: at the beginning of the game, spending 10 gems to multiply x2 your income per turn is huge. Later on, spending 10 gems to increase your income by 0.3 is much less worth it - but that's what my table is modeling.
If someone feels like helping, it'd be cool if you cool calculate the efficiency of remote searching for 10 turns and calling it a day vs investing further turns into travel searching. Maybe actually the efficient play is shaped like a u, with remote searching being the most efficient at the very beginning (higher %, gem-per-gem impact) and later (long travel times, strong risk due to large wars, enough income that you can afford to throw some gems away to search for more sites), with the efficiency falling in the middle due to the cumulative costs delaying your break even point too hard.
An exercise for the reader. I'm going to bed.
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>>566891329
I was playing it safe as I have done the matchup in the past as kicked the shit out of an overconfident Atlantis player using a Void Lord. But I was going to attack this turn since I just hit a research goal.
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>>566895814
Wait, I'm an idiot. That information is already in my table too, you just have to cross reference the columns for the AGIIPT and do basic multiplication for the cumulative profit.
The remote searcher returns an AGIIPT of 6 by turn 10. A X1X1 will have to search for 20 turns to reach that AGIIPT.
By turn 10, the remote searcher has a total return of 1.3 (he's just stopped being a net loss), and over the next 10 turns he's still going to net you 6 gems per turn without spending his mage turn searching. So by turn 20 you'll have 6*10 + 1.3 = 61.3 gems in your pocket AND 10 mage turns to do whatever else you want. The X1X1 will have just netted you 57 gems and 0 free use mage turns at this point.
Throwing a few well aimed remote search spells at high value locations is probably one of the best things you can do for your gem economy. Wastelands, provinces with odd scales, caves, underwater... The RoI is crazy
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Gotta thank God for this win. Nomark graciously carried me across the finish line beginning to end. Sorry I didn't realize you wanted to throw armies at the ai or I would've delayed the claim.
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>>566815983
Doesn't even have to be three dudes
Got jumped by an Ulm player on turn 15 and I really struggled to see what I could do there to actively push back.
Held him off with early skeletons and my Dagon (even the few Lords with GSS couldn't stop him fully) until I could get GoW, Rigor, and Horde spam. Eventually wore him down enough with extremely one sided victories to reclaim all my lands back over ~15-20 turns later.
Despite sitting on Earth Blood now into the late 30s, I still feel so far behind, because for that entire time he literally just raided me nonstop, I couldn't make more camazots since my cave provs were constantly flipping, and had to make PERFECT 'spend hours in the arena' plays to not instantly lose.
Meanwhile Man next door is simply obliterating the entire lobby and will likely claim five thrones before I can even recover fully.
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>>566898709
He learned from the first defeat and realized how retarded my pretender is and began shitting out Guardians, rendering the awake useless (a couple bad rolls he gets fatigued out in a turn from Bane of Heresey)
As for choke points... We're playing Mapnuke.
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>>566897156
Yeah your nation seemed to be way too weak compared to the others. And mine was overpowered as fuck. I'll miss these blender guys, it was fun to see frontlines straight up exploding. Shame the other side gave up too early.
Could be a pretty fun map for an everyone vs everyone though. Or if we can somehow make sure that each team spawns in their own continent and nowhere else
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This was a very easy game due to my sacreds being broken as shit and even more importantly, the map.
>2vs1 in the continent, with the 1 backed up in a corner
>quickly eat him before his teammate can react
>teammate, who was in the central island, does send some armies and causes some trouble with his enlarged trample swallowing carps, but my sacreds are the same size turn them into sashimi every time with barely any losses
>no mage support or changes in tactics to get around my frontal block of blenders, either
>start building temples on the upper north corner of the map
>quickly take over the entire continent and start capturing the caves and the lower right sea corner
>island guy can't do anything for himself either but getting there is very awkward due to geography and the ocean crossings so it still takes a long while to get there
>my teammate keeps losing battles but then he starts playing pokemon with all the nasty pre-set monsters in the map and switches into a decent threat
>spend some more time just finishing things off and setting up for a large scale invasion
>capture half of the sea
>capture all caves and fill them with my mass recruitable E3 mages with earth boots to give any invaders a cheeky cave earthquake every turn
>30 build temples by now, holy points from 4 to 10
>finally launch the final invasion on the other continent with two fuckhueg armies and dozens of mages
>teammate points out that he's capping the last throne we need in like two turns
>game ends
Bit anticlimatic. Whish I could have joined earlier the battle for the Swamp of Moggers
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>>566937547
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>>566937547
>Swamp of Moggers
It was pretty cool, the commander had this which is bredy gud if you can lock the guy holding it in a box so they don't run forward and die. A bit less useful on a nation of S2N2 mages though
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>>566937547
I said it once and I'll say it again: sorry for the map choice. I was hoping for wrap around or more cave entrances or less powerful indies to use those ports, OR AT LEAST FIXED START POSITIONS! I thought it was a Disciple map, but it must've been for only 2 teams because 1 team was split across the central island and the western continent and the other 2 were sharing the same continent and, with no apparent exist, forced to fight to the death.
This was a mistake and I won't repeat it. until I find THE PERFECT DISCIPLE MAP, I am not doing a fixed map for Nationgen Disciple games, even as a Disciple, Faesunth felt like he couldn't contribute to the game due to the bizarre nature of his Nation and even thought he should've leaned in on the Thuggy nation of his higher level Foulspawn, the lack of space, constant pressure and danger of the independents prevented him from doing so!
Sorry.
Anyway, I will pick my Nation now and will launch the game in a few hours.
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>>566872713
>>566888587
ah fuck I knew I was being a dumbass about something. Re-ran and yeah they're all there. Good stuff
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>>566943874
There's some patterns. Legions, praetors and artifacts all require mostly specific tokens.
The disciplines that work together with them require the same resource to level up, as do the rituals. You gotta balance getting all the good shit with actually being able to do anything with it
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>>566948998
Fuck yeah, let's go
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>>566951990
Destruction rituals. Praetors like them a lot too
>>566955042
Hop in we're about to start
https://hinaserver.net/game/40
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>>566960279
>all the nations that have cool troops have shit mages
>all the nations that have cool mages have shit troops
suffering
Kuntis looks funny with Dark Power 8 on the sacreds but I'm unsure if they actually get a cave start despite everyone having dark power.
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>>566969850
It's a nationgens game. Most things are put together by dicerolls and often don't make sense. I had recruitable troops that worked as communion slaves last game. I didn't have astral or blood.
Ideally just test it, but I wouldn't count on it.
The berserker minotaur nation had a nice balance of good troops and good mages. But also berserker mages...
>>566967098
Wait, different tokens count differently for overbidding?
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>>566969850
>>566972676
It's almost as if I know the horror stories and try to prevent blatantly overpowered nations, only to sometimes get something objectively badass like Nomark and accept them in anyway.
And yes, Nomark was a Golem worshiping Nation, with no native constructs, it also had free communion slaves, with no Astral, but it also had Pretenders with Astral access and that combo was but one avenue you could run the nation as.
anyway, game start
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>>566969850
There are no Water Nations in Nationgen, only amphibious nations (unless I am dumb, but based on how it broke Arena Map like what happens when you have too many land-only Nations and some spawn in the Sea...), as for Cave Nations, they don't have preference, you could spawn above or bellow ground, a bit like post-EA Abysia, only they tend to favor the above ground
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>>566980450
The Flying Asian Monkeys may be a bit derrivative when you already have japanese monkeys, but these Monkeys have the Jomon Elemental Priest Signs in their spellbook, alongside the rest of the Jomon spells, but no native E/F/N/W H1 access
Fire Power Ophidians means that you don't get fucked by Cersith's economically crippeling dominion, but I am fairly certain at least one of the nations present is cold scales, which would suck, however, having a Random 1 Mage is very good and Ophidians in general seem to just be C'Tissians but more elementally viable, they are still massive fucking cowards
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>>566980959
Nevermind figured it out I'm retarded
Please decide for me though >>566980450
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>>566980959
no. you go on hinaserver.net you go to the game you want, you look for the word Adress and under it you copy what you see into the "join a game server" button on the multiplayer functions in the Dominions application and THEN, a second screen pops up, and THERE you type in the number 10003, then you wait for the server to upload the mod directly into your Roaming folder of Dominions
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>>566981173
As much as I want to mess with Kopko's anyfort flying bandar samurai sacreds, I've come up with a much funnier name for a Bouthisda tendie...
>>566981534
Yeah I realized it was just blitzserverI didn't realize you could just auto-download mods these days, I grabbed that shit off the site manually
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>>566981173
>>566981161
Flying monkey nation seems just a bit too good, but I am playing the Giant Nation, so if that is my counter so be it. We already have Japanese Monkeys, they have Tiger Chariots.
We don't have Ophidians though and you can't play ophidians in normal Dominions and that's the funnest part of Nationgen
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I feel dirty, choosing a 2 attacks per square Giant Iron Age Nation when there is a man in this server who saw +2 Health +2 Attack Hoburgs with Glamour, Iron Weakness, Goose mounts and no clothes and went "...Yes, this is the one"
I really want to join you in camaraderie as another Hoburg nation, but the Elephant men are calling to me since the first time I've seen a Nationgen game
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>>566981812
Welcome to the future old man
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>>566982637
yes, yes they do. You might've missed it, but there's 2 types of Horticulturist Cults presets for Hoburgs. You have the Splicers-like grafted vinemen hoburgs who live twice as long and can have Awe, Regen, Spikes, Recuperation, Sleepvines, Carrier Vines and so on and are essentially ecologically friendly cyborgs (badass)
And then, you have the Slavers. Who have a bunch of powerful high cost Primary Race types (like say, Steel Age Avvim) as Mindless High HP and Strength but abysmal stats Magic Being Fungus Zombies. Slavers also sometimes have Vine Grafted Hoburgs, but they are also Mindless Fungus Zombies.
Believe it or not, I actually vetoed a Slaver Horticulture Cult because it had Avvim Fungus Slaves, since they had like 40+ Hp and 2 to a square, even with like 8- attack, since they were recruit anywhere mindless slaves... it would just be too much
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>>566983405
Do Fomorians have Trample?
Do Rephilim?
Do Nephilim?
Do Grigori?
Keep in mind, you can have Horns and still not Trample, Minotaurs have Trample because they don't have a Horn attack, its to signify them using their horns to attack but being so clumsy, so furious, so careless that they just walk over you instead of goring you.
Minotaur Manikins, can Gore, so they don't have trample.
Asterios, the Monster Minotaur, has Horns AND Trample, but he also has Invulnerable 20, human feet and long limbs, so what he is probably doing is throwing himself on you as he charges, performing a sort of belly-flop-headbutt since he doesn't need to worry about injuring himself, unlike a Minotaur and is much more durable then just a skeleton wrapped in Vines
Tusked Ones don't trample for the exact same reason a Nephilim doesn't trample. He's a biped with a humanoid skeletal structure and humans knees really dislike the action of trampling
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>>566982463
My analysis of what was already picked- t. sneks
You're definitely THE THREAT even if your cheapest infantry is 70 gold (hydra hatchlings aren't real), elephants being what they are. Please don't be next to me.
Angoburg's hoburgs are really funny but mostly harmless to anything with armor, apart from >>566982637 which is actually pretty spicy. One of the champions has an AN weapon too.
Elembos has a wide variety of cool minotaurs with solid armor- the flail ones less so but they might be pretty spicy with buffs, since they're two attacks each. Formation fighter +5 berserker sacreds are scary as fuck and make up for having leather hats. Berserker mages will probably bite them in the ass, but they're also pretty cool. Please don't be next to me.
Nemon has solid heavy armor human dudes and also knights riding 19 prot dire wolves, which is pretty cool. Interesting paths.
Cersith is like a way scarier version of me but pays out the ass for the crazy statlines and is lacking in the armor department, with a distinct lack of hats. Unsure how that'll work out, but I like them. The sacred chariot's camel is completely naked. Cool mages, and reanimator priests should help make up for the really expensive infantry.
The monkes are rad. Bandars wearing actual armor are pretty great. The name makes me suspect they're trying to make use of the 14 gold archer sacred, which is extremely based.
Kumburg is incredible, no notes. Swan cavalry is really funny. I wish them only the best. Actually has very good mages, and the cheap comm slave/labrat is also the only one with 20 HP.
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oh also, you might've forgotten that Luck scales aren't useless in Nationgen. EVERY Nation has at least one hero and as many as 4+. Some heroes suck balls, especially Lamias because they also have Regeneration tag which lowers their natural regeneration, but others are complete game changers, like Holy 3s or Air 4s or even just a wall of muscle that can kick the shit out of any Fort recruit Thug.
Don't underestimate Luck
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>>566987239
>I can get a D4G4B1 homosexual sailor smith
kickass
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>>566987239
>two games ago
>get a hero
>literally just a villager with a quarterstaff
>get another hero
>another villager with a quarterstaff and a leadership morale +1 trait
>leadership 0
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>>566951990
Destruction mainly but legions and certain artifacts take a lot too.
>>566960279
Pretty sure all praetors are the water + souls. No fire praetors that I've seen
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>>566994462
Mayhaps we vote Astaroth? They're almost max rank and have several sites of power we can redistribute
>>566998354
That's kind of important to know. I assume yes.
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>>566994462
We had one or two new players here, right?
Excommunication means a player is no longer bound or protected by the laws of hell. They can be attacked at any moment and their stronghold can be assaulted directly, but they can do the same to everyone else.
Think twice before voting for a strong player close to you.