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Why do Atheists act like there is innate good in humans when humans are driven by greed, desire to breed, hunger, and power by their nature in every culture and every race?
Why is the concept of needing a higher concept like God necessary to raise above our base nature so difficult for them to understand when we are clearly beasts of biologically inclined selfishness
Showing all 92 replies.
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It's not that religion necessarily makes you a good person, it's just that the only people who fantasize about "abolishing" it or try to convert you to atheism are bad people.
>Vice-crazy hedonistic nihilists who want to extort something from you that your religion prohibits
>Insufferably smug reddit atheists who get off on it because it makes them feel smart
>Political extremists who believe they (or the people they've based their shitty personality around) should be worshipped instead of a god
>Corpos who want to abolish it because it gets in the way of their profits, and because atheists are easier to divide. You're seeing this play out right now, rises in mental illness, atomization, and atheism in addition to coinciding with each other also coincide with the biggest upward wealth transfer in history
The only time trying to convert someone to atheism is altruistic is if the target is trapped in some insane abusive sex cult, but there's only like 10,000 people in the country that applies to at the absolute most. You'll likely never meet someone in such a situation in your life.
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>>24460108
Its a matter of knowing deep down we are evil. We do need God to make us good people, because our inherit nature is evil.
Atheists think its bad to need something to not be evil. We just realize how violent, cruel, selfish, and greedy we and don't have delusions of everyone being good people without something beyond our base humanity.
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Humans are naturally altruistic, we wouldn't have society otherwise. The issue is our system selects for sociopaths to be in power so it looks worse than it. This issue is aggravated by religion, having the masses believe your evil, self interested decisions are actually the will of god makes it easier to get away with it.
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>>24459311
>Why do Atheists act like there is innate good in humans
There is.
>when humans are driven by greed, desire to breed, hunger, and power by their nature in every culture and every race?
Not always.
Honestly, why do Christians hate humanity just as much as vegans do?
>Why is the concept of needing a higher concept like God necessary to raise above our base nature so difficult for them to understand when we are clearly beasts of biologically inclined selfishness
How come some atheists are scientists then? Science isn't "base" hedonism. It's higher intelligence.
You are also ignoring the fact that religious people have been cruel all throughout history. Ever read about Vlad the Impaler?
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Honestly, it's weird how so many religious people lash out at humanity itself when humanity invented everything, including the computer that you are using right now. Again, the anti-human hate in religion and the anti-human hate in veganism are oddly similar. Some hard green environmentalists hate humanity too. Lots of extremists hate humanity.
Personally, I love humanity because we are the highest form of intelligence in existence and because we invented everything. I'm proud to be human!
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>>24459311
Well I am not an atheist but I believe in innate good in man because thousands of years of history and cultures that were separated by time, space, culture, language, technology and otherwise all came to the same conclusions when it comes to morality.
Because morality is objective. It is discovered. Not dictated. Believe it or not, people lived totally moral lives for thousands of years before Jesus came along. I know that's hard to believe, but it's true. It's factual. Objectively.
Anything else big guy?
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>>24460869
There is not inherent anti-humqn hate in religion, you are also a dogmatic individual. Many people worship science as if it has definitely answered all the questions of the universe.
1. it hasn't
2. There is no destination and learning and discovery is an unending and transcendental process
I suggest you study more religious belief before you go tossing around bullshit like that because it is objectively false.
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>>24460895
>Many people worship science as if it has definitely answered all the questions of the universe.
Nobody worships science. We just understand that evolution makes more sense than talking snakes.
>I suggest you study more religious belief
Religion was rammed down my throat relentlessly when I was a kid. I know what I'm talking about. I was force-fed that shit as a kid.
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The way I see it, religious people are just another group of people who are trying to boss me around. It's kinda like the vegans who tell me what I can and can't eat or the feminists who create a shit-ton of rules about what I can and can't enjoy.
I do whatever I want. All the people who boss me around are all the same to me.
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>>24459311
It's all cope by atheists. They want to try and claim humans are naturally good and it was religion that corrupted and turned people bad. That is why they worship literal third world savages who rape and kill, they claim it was just white people who made them that way because of nature vs nurture argument.
The real fucked up part is that religion or not denying God is denying yourself. That is why so many atheists are miserable and angry all the time.
>>24460669
Wrong, humans are naturally selfish but are willing to give some leeway with being "good" if it's a group they like and they are already well off because by helping the group the expectation is that we get something back in return eventually.
>>24460869
Just wait until you realize this anti-humanity shit is just anti-white propaganda. They never apply "anti-human" stuff to other races.
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>>24459311
"Good" is a social construct based on culture, culture is based on genetics, what makes us humans, and our environment. Ignoring the environment part, if it has some basis on our genetics then it means part of what we call "good" is innate. E.g: We find babies cute, so harming them is usually seen as bad.
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>>24460691
Where and when has there ever been any humans that have ever been innately good without it being driven by God, reward, or fear of repercussions?
You can give a human more abundance in food and comfort than they could ever wants and they still, ALWAYS want more and are depraved. There is no moral billionaire.
>>24460701
Most Christians want to be Job, not Christ. They want to follow all the rules, be rewarded for following all the rules, and revel in their pride of how they are for following all the rules. But that is not Good. That is transactional of blessing and fearful of curses.
If there are any true followers of christ, they would strive to be like him rather than like job.
Unconditionally Loving and Intentional.
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>>24461066
>Where and when has there ever been any humans that have ever been innately good without it being driven by God, reward, or fear of repercussions?
>when are humans good when you take away every single incentive to be good
retard
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>>24461066
>Where and when has there ever been any humans that have ever been innately good without it being driven by God, reward, or fear of repercussions?
You can give a human more abundance in food and comfort than they could ever wants and they still, ALWAYS want more and are depraved. There is no moral billionaire.
... and you honestly think that creating a theocracy would make things any better?
Do you know how many people have been killed by theocracy throughout history?
>Most Christians want to be Job, not Christ. They want to follow all the rules, be rewarded for following all the rules, and revel in their pride of how they are for following all the rules. But that is not Good. That is transactional of blessing and fearful of curses.
If there are any true followers of christ, they would strive to be like him rather than like job.
>Unconditionally Loving and Intentional.
Love doesn't come from religion. It just comes from humanity.
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>>24461124
So you admit humans are innately evil. We have to be coaxed into being good otherwise our lesser animal nature will drive us to depravity, and the second humans don't have to follow those incentives (becoming rich enough to flaunt the rules) we immediately become depraved again.
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>>24461137
>Theocracy
Who said anything about theocracy or government or creating a power structure. Humans can never have power structures until we address the elephant in the room that WE ARE EVIL. If that isn't etched into every human as a hedge against our lesser natures. Humans need God because without that to strive for, we are left to our depravity.
>Love doesn't come from religion. It just comes from humanity.
There is a difference between Agape and animalistic hormone driven "love." If you're too much a brainlet to know the difference between the drive a mother gets from prolactin to care for her children and truly loving them without those hormones and material conditions making it easy, you can't be helped.
>>24461151
What is innately good about humans? Leave us to rot in squalor and we're depraved. Give us all the riches in the world we are depraved.
>>24461153
nobody cares about your personal life or what zealots and Job-wannabes want. Religious is not christ-like. To be christ-like, you must submit that you are evil at your innate root. And humans have proven this in every possible case.
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>>24461166
>To be christ-like, you must submit that you are evil at your innate root.
This reminds me of the leftists who think "All white men are sexist and racist because they have subconscious prejudices."
You are trying to make yourself sound like a unique special snowflake, but you are just the right-wing equivalent of an anti-white, anti-male SJW.
>"And humans have proven this in every possible case."
Again, you sound exactly like the vegans who say "Humans are evil!" and the leftists who say "White men are evil at heart!"
Just fuck off and let me enjoy life. ALL of you.
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>>24461239
>white, male, race
All these social constructs are downstream of innate human evil. If you can't acknowledge that you are purely acting in reaction to consequences, rewards, and fear, you can never start your first thought beyond it. And it begins with knowing yourself.
If you can't address your evil, how can you ever truly know real, actual, non-transactional, intentional good?
As we are, we are merely reacting to hormones, punishments/rewards from power structures filled to the brim with depraved humans who wouldn't even consider themselves evil in the slightest. And this has been the history of man for all of our existence.
Humility is necessary to grow spiritually. And our pride and our inability to acknowledge our innate evil blinds us from ever seeing past it. We will at best just curry rewards and avoid punishments until we are no longer transactional for abundance, and then return to cruelty and depravity because we have ours.
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>>24460691
>Science isn't "base" hedonism. It's higher intelligence.
LMAO
NO
It fucking isn't.
Do you know how many studies get discredited every year?
Are you even aware of the reproducibility crisis in every science field atm?
modern science ABSOLUTELY is base soulless sold out hedonism.
Fucking dumb nigger.
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>>24461014
>Just wait until you realize this anti-humanity shit is just antiwhite propaganda.
1. corrected. it's just one word, no space no hyphen.
2. absolutely correct. It's driven by antiwhite dogma.
Which is why we need White wellbeing to heal our education, religious, and governmental systems.
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>>24461278
Its not projection, its in our DNA and it is proven every day by the violent and desperate poor and the depraved rich.
Slaves and Kings have always been this way for all time. We all must address our evil if we want to be open to actual good.
Humble yourself, in humility you will find it. That is the beautiful picture of Christ, an omnipotent, omniscient being that purposely humbled himself to torture and death because he loved you unconditionally and intentionally.
What human could be born knowing that fate, much less a God? It is that love that we all must seek. And we can not conceive of that love while blinded by our pride in being "good" when we are actually transactional, reactionary, hormonal, and depraved at our root.
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>>24460701
>cucknadian
>is disgustingly antiwhite
Woah
Gee
Shock.
>>24460905
>Nobody worships science.
>and now he openl;y fucking lies
LMAO
child.
You should start by purging the antiwhiteism in your mind before you try to handle big boy topics cuckie.
Or just sign up for MAID. They'll fast track you since your White, and your treasonous government wants total White erasure.
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>>24461315
>Which is why we need White wellbeing to heal our education, religious, and governmental systems.
White wellbeing? You mean like Johnny Rebel songs?
Okay dude. Just don't start hanging black people from trees. Okay bud?
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>>24461166
>What is innately good about humans?
Well if atheists are right everything good any human has ever done is because they are human not because of God. If atheists are right humans created the concept of God and goodness and hold it as some of our highest ideals.
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>>24459311
>Why do Atheists act like there is innate good in humans?
we don't
>Why is the concept of needing a higher concept like God necessary to raise above our base nature so difficult for them to understand?
Did you know that most humans can't do multi digit mental math? Multi digit math is 'difficult', but someone dedicated can do it, now imagine if someone said to you "you aren't doing multi digit math because you aren't using your fingers, humans are dumb, humans are bad at math, you can't be doing math because your aren't using your fingers". That's what you're doing, the same way if you're mentally retarded math is hard to do without your fingers, if you're morally retarded being a good person is hard without religion or something like it. Yes not all athiests are good people, but your whole argument is based on you insisting that a pretty inconsistent sweeping generalization is strictly true. Which it's not, this perspective either comes from you personally being morally retarded or looking down on others as less than you, I don't know or care which, but the latter is a sin in your religion if I remember correctly.
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>>24461804
>if you're morally retarded being a good person is hard without religion or something like it
Have you ever noticed that the most outwardly puritanical people are always the most degenerate perverts? Have you ever noticed that every "tradpilled Christian puritan" LARPer chud retard is everything that they accuse their opponents of being? Have you ever noticed that religious conservatives get busted for pedophilia and other sexual misconduct more than anyone else by far?
This is the exact same deal.
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>>24460067
This. They proclaim that atheism makes everyone better, more rational, and magically high IQ
>>24460701
Is mortality is relative? If so there is no such thing as good.
>>24461745
Marxism has a higher kill count then any world religion.
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>>24459311
>driven by greed, desire to breed...
...and the lust to sneed
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>>24461804
>Looking down on others
Humility must come from all and above all. Nobody should ever utter the words "I'm better than X because Y" because that is pride which is rooted in our innate evil nature. You yourself are rooted in pride, saying you're Good and intelligent while others are just "retarded" because they didn't get the life experience you have to be what you think is better. You have no humility or love in your heart.
Unconditional, intentional love devoid of transactionalism, rewards, repercussions, and lust of power is the only true "Good" we can ever conceive.
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>>24459311
I'm an atheist and concepts like "good" and "evil" are based on societies. There were societies in the past where it was "good" to burn a bag of cats alive, or "good" to rape and pillage a neighboring village (and they would cite their religion as why it was "good.")
I don't need your book to be a good person as defined by society. I'd also probably be a fucking monster in the eyes of some alien society for reasons I can only imagine.
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>>24463241
>Subjective truth
Not gonna make it anon. You must know there is objective truth and objective good, even if you yourself might not have the totality of it. You strive for it. That is God.
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Some of the people in this thread are adhering to a weird version of Christianity that is completely different from Christianity in practice.
Look you assholes. We're not stupid. We've seen the real world. We've seen how creationists make dumb arguments and then harass anyone who disagrees with them. We all know Christian fundies who believe in weird conspiracy theories. We all know Christians who pretend to be "loving" when they are really just controlling. We've all seen the bullshit from American Republicans. We all know about the ridiculous bullshit Noah's Ark story and how some idiots seriously believe that shit. We all know about the Christians who promote wars because they want young men to die on the battlefield. We all know about the fat fucking Americans who want to destroy MY country in the name of Jesus. We all know about the Christians who want to ban anime and video games. We all know about the Christians who abuse autistic children.
You aren't fooling me with your "philosophical" gibberish.
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>>24463337
「 Canadian Technique: 10,000 strawmen」
Address my actual contentions. Address man's innate evil.
>>24463375
Islam avoids the Chist-like nature completely. Muhammad is just another Job. Transactional, diligent, selfish, and reactionary. But unlike Job he gets dozens of concessions from God to do things that would otherwise be evil. Christ in Islam is literally just another prophet, and the whole point of God sending a million prophets over and over is to make the point that no matter how many times God sends someone to lay out exactly what to do, people don't do it, and even when they do, they do it purely out of a transactional nature, not of true, intentional, unconditional love.
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>>24461143
Nobody would do anything if people were just robots that didn't respond to the kindness of others, but luckily we evolved to have these incentives built into us innately. If you do something nice for a completely random stranger on the street there is a 95% chance they will smile, be nice to you, thank you, which is an incentive in of itself.
you are retarded
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>>24463485
Do this in india where abundance and the echoes of the christ-like nature aren't even a thing. Watch what happens when you give a bum your leftovers. They are ravenous and many will see you as a source of transactional reward.
You live in a bubble of abundance and a culture that at least has echoes of the christlike nature. But even then the poor in canada are still desperate and ravenous and the rich are depraved and cruel despite having more than they could ever need.
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>>24463464
>Your lived experience is a straw man!
Just imagine how hard you would be crying if I tried to deny YOUR lived experience.
>Islam avoids the Chist-like nature completely. Muhammad is just another Job. Transactional, diligent, selfish, and reactionary. But unlike Job he gets dozens of concessions from God to do things that would otherwise be evil. Christ in Islam is literally just another prophet, and the whole point of God sending a million prophets over and over is to make the point that no matter how many times God sends someone to lay out exactly what to do, people don't do it, and even when they do, they do it purely out of a transactional nature, not of true, intentional, unconditional love.
Okay man. Don't draft young men into a war against Islam though. I get that 9/11 happened, but I don't want even more 21 year old fellas to die.
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>>24463337
>We've seen how creationists make dumb arguments and then harass anyone who disagrees with them.
So what the left, communist and troons do creating a new reality?
>We all know Christian fundies who believe in weird conspiracy theories
Again, what the left communist and troons believe in?
>We all know Christians who pretend to be "loving" when they are really just controlling. We've all seen the bullshit from American Republicans.
Again, what you guys are doing?
>We all know about the ridiculous bullshit Noah's Ark story and how some idiots seriously believe that shit.
Like the concept of gender having a thousand variations and white people bad stories?
>We all know about the fat fucking Americans who want to destroy MY country in the name of Jesus
Canadians destroyed their own fucking country you retard. That is what this MK ULTRA shit has done to your brain, your handlers destroy everything and then trick you into attacking something else from the pain it caused.
>We all know about the Christians who want to ban anime and video games. We all know about the Christians who abuse autistic children.
Not only you guys do that but you actively and constantly brag about doing this
Holy FUCK I hate living in this frozen hellhole communist shit fuck of a satanic asylum.
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Overall, I get that humanity can be troublesome at times ... but we are still the highest form of intelligence in existence. There is no God and aliens haven't been discovered yet (Area 51 conspiracy theories are bullshit.) and animals are dumb and artificial intelligence keeps creating ugly slop. Humanity is still the highest form of intelligence in existence.
We humans have created ugly shit like war, rape, murder, torture and authoritarianism ... but the most beautiful things in the world still come from humanity and NOT from some outside entity that humanity must submit to. Humanity created great movies like the Disney classics, the Studio Ghibli classics, and the pre-Disney Star Wars films. We created great video games like Starcraft 2, Pizza Tower and the first 3 Paper Marios. We created great board games like Chess and Catan. Humans have imaginations, and the most wonderful things in existence came out of the human imagination. Humans can fall in love. Humans can be friends. Humans can forgive.
In my experience, most belief systems that tell people "Humans are evil on the inside and you must submit to an outside higher intelligence!" only make humanity worse.
Most people here are male and so I'm going to assume that I'm only talking to dudes at the moment. Think back to your earliest memories. Remember when your sister watched Cinderella and Snow White? Those films are beautiful eh? Humanity made that. You probably grew up with Pokémon and Digimon and The Jungle Book and Aladdin and The Lion King right? Humanity made that too. These works of art came out of people who believed in themselves. If humanity starts hating itself then we might never create these sorts of works of art ever again!
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>>24463527
again strawmaning me as if I'm the American conservative who thinks they are right. I'm the realist who knows I'm Evil. The machinations of power structures run by depraved people is the very byproduct of humans believing we are innately good in our nature.
>>24463593
>at time
8000 years of kings and slaves
>aliens
make believe cope
>highest form of intelligence in existence.
Still not innately good despite that. You have to know what you are to fix what your problem is.
>Disney classics, ghibli, starwars, starcraft, pizza tower
You must be a child to be putting dopamine hits as the most beautiful things a human can produce or experience.
A single mother finding the time to play with and care for her child , thats a miracle. A young kid in a ghetto of tragedy choosing to turn away from drugs and get an education, thats a miracle. A man who visits the imprisoned or the sick when they are left for dead by society, thats a miracle.
That is true, unconditional, intentional love.
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>>24463572
>troons
Holy fuck. Why are you so obsessed with transgenders? Transgenderism is extremely rare and yet you keep talking about transgenders as though they are everywhere like a horde of zombies or something. Your post sounds like the incoherent babbling of a schizophrenic. You remind me of the people who are obsessed with gays despite the fact that gays (much like transgenders) make up a tiny fraction of the population and always will.
>what you guys are doing?
I'm not trans. I am a man with an all-natural dick and balls. I'm not a leftist either. I've actually criticized leftism right here in this thread. I'm more of a centrist. I used to be a Maddox fan when I was younger and he greatly influenced my views on a lot of things.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=repubs
>gender having a thousand variations
Hardly anyone actually believes that. Only extreme Tumblr people believe that. No big deal.
>white people bad stories
I've already made it clear that I don't believe that.
I hate Nazis though. Nazis claim to be pro-white but then they murder all sorts of white people (such as disabled people and people who are "not white enough" like Brazilian anon) and then they kill themselves. It's generally better for your life if you DON'T become a psycho-killer m8.
>Canadians destroyed their own fucking country you retard. That is what this MK ULTRA shit has done to your brain, your handlers destroy everything and then trick you into attacking something else from the pain it caused.
HOLY FUCK! I am literally laughing right now! You sound like Alex Jones! What's next? Are you going to tell me that aliens from Uranus did 9/11?
>Holy FUCK I hate living in this frozen hellhole communist shit fuck of a satanic asylum.
PLEASE take your mother fucking medication.
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>>24463649
>8000 years of kings and slaves
The Bible promotes monarchy and slavery though.
>"The Disney classics are just muh dopamine!"
Why the fuck are you so negative about everything? Show me your wrists so that we can all see the cutting scars!
>A single mother finding the time to play with and care for her child , thats a miracle. A young kid in a ghetto of tragedy choosing to turn away from drugs and get an education, thats a miracle. A man who visits the imprisoned or the sick when they are left for dead by society, thats a miracle.
That is true, unconditional, intentional love.
Sure ... but do you seriously think that all of the great films and games in the world are all nothing because "muh dopamine"? Honestly, I hate how the internet is full of people who want to be fucking miserable on the grounds that anything fun is "muh dopamine". It's not my fault if you can't see beauty in something that is beautiful.
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>>24463666
>666
Plus anybody can see you are lying about all of your points by looking out the window. I don't need to waste my energy on you anymore with you proving my points.
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>>24463696
>The Bible promotes monarchy and slavery though.
There is only one king and it is christ. There is jew or greek, master or slave. And it is the christ-like nature that absolves and leads all to Good.
>Why the fuck are you so negative about everything?
You're a child attributing things meant to get dopamine hits from children as being high in the human capacity. It is laughable.
>B-B-B-BUT I LIKE MY DOPAMINE HITS!
They are not high in the human facilities, as much as you enjoy them. If you could do Cocaine without any of the negative side effects, you would endlessly to seek that pleasure because you only attribute the base nature as good.
You fail to see the true, unconditional, intentional nature of the christ-like nature and what it stirs in true, good humans.
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>>24463730
>>24463741
Yeah, that's about the level of response that I expected from people who unironically believe in ancient Jewish desert fairy tales, kek.
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>>24463725
Who the fuck do you think you are?
I work for a living and I have all sorts of work to do around the house. You seriously think that it's wrong for people like me to enjoy things?
You are accusing me of immaturity and comparing me to a drug addict when you have your head a mile up your ass.
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>>24463778
Who am I? A sinner equal with every other human in my wrong.
Who said wrong? I'm just pointing out that you are attributing dopamenergic consumerism as being high in the human faculties. You seem to hold these things in high regard because they please your senses, but bread and circus don't please the soul, they don't raise you true, unconditional, intentional love
No matter how fun speed running level pizza tower or watching princess mononoke it will just be mindless self indulgence in the end if it's just for your own pleasure. It's based nature, and you could be higher.
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>>24463818
>equal with every other human in my wrong.
... and yet you act like you are more "mature" than me just because you refuse to enjoy anything.
>muh consumerism
Christians and communists are more similar than either would like to admit.
>muh bread and circus
Again, this is the same sort of argument that communists make. "Don't enjoy anything because that is a distraction from Christianity/Communism!" Same shit, different asshole.
>"REAL love is self-abuse!"
This is literally the same shit that Muslims, communists, feminists and vegans believe in. You are just another pushy activist. You must think that I was born yesterday. Every activist movement out there expects me to torture myself because of "morality" or some shit.
It's actually better to be an "autistic immature nerd" who knows how to have fun and fucking ENJOY a thing. Stop spamming your "Self-abuse is good!" bullshit on this board. I'm trying to enjoy life!
>It's based nature, and you could be higher.
That's what EVERY religion and EVERY political pseudo-religion says. You aren't special.
Fun Fact: Graham crackers and Corn Flakes were both invented by Christians who invented bland "cuisine" because they didn't want anybody to enjoy anything. Also, some Medieval Christians used to whip themselves because they thought that this would bring them closer to God. Is that what you want? More of that shit?
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>>24464202
You are quite immature indeed. You can't ascertain that your base nature in indulging in purely dopaminergic actions isn't anything of high value.
You're being too defensive about your personal life aimlessly.
Me pointing out that you consuming media isn't a high function of humanity as you state (you literally talked about the passive enjoyment experiences as the height of human beauty ).
No matter what strawmen you point to unrelated to my contentions, you still haven't addressed them. You can't refute that humans are innately evil and only through true, intentional, unconditional can achieve a higher state.
Whatever precepts or trauma you have endured or conjecture from whatever clad of Christians is not the true christ-like nature. They thought they were good. They didn't acknowledge that they were evil.
They strive to be Job, when they should strive to be christ.
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>>24464530
>You are quite immature indeed.
Let me guess. All autistic men are "immature" to you? You didn't really give me a choice.
>You can't ascertain that your base nature in indulging in purely dopaminergic actions isn't anything of high value.
I also have 2 jobs. It's called work-life balance dipshit. Who do you think you are talking to? Are you a typical Jordan Peterson fan?
"Anyone who disagrees with the Republicans on anything is obviously a NEET! Dopamine bad! REEEE!" That's what Jordan Peterson fans like you are like.
Do YOU have a job? My own life experience has taught me that some Christians are lazy, useless bums.
>You're being too defensive about your personal life
I'm defending my personal life because the world is full of activist cunts like you who think that men shouldn't enjoy anything. I don't want to be part of your stupid fucking Donald Trump Republicans versus SJWs Culture War! I just want to enjoy life! Get off my favorite board!
>you literally talked about the passive enjoyment experiences as the height of human beauty
Do you EVER get invited to parties? Take a good, long look in the mirror for once and you might understand why everyone hates you.
>No matter what strawmen you point to unrelated to my contentions, you still haven't addressed them. You can't refute that humans are innately evil and only through true, intentional, unconditional can achieve a higher state.
Nobody is interested in this cult that you are trying to start m8.
"Every other Christian country in history had it wrong but I have it right because I am Christ-like. I'm kind of a big deal."
Maybe that's impressive to your mom, but the rest of us still think that you're a dildo.
You're not a cool special snowflake.
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>>24464696
You're quite defensive about your dopamine hitters. I understand, they are what you get pleasure from in a cruel and heartless world no different in its true mechanism than the kings and slaves of old.
But you alone are the only one bringing up your aberration in mental state as a defense of your indulgence. I merely contend that mindless self indulgence is not a higher value or principle of mankind. Watching movies, shows playing games, none of it is anything more than what it is, a dopamine hit. I'm not impuning you for the way you live your life, I'm merely pointing out it is not something of integrity and intrinsic good in the world.
10,000 years from now nobody will care about your personal speed run or pizza tower or how clutch a nuzlocke run was for you. What matters is true, intentional, selfless love. That is the only good humanity can make.
You can keep appealing to your spooks and strawmen and completing me with someone desiring power or position. In reality I am merely working off and addressing first principles
1. Humans are innately evil
2. We require the humility to know we are evil. That if we had a billion dollars we'd be jo difference from every other depraved king or likewise if we were desperate and destitute.
3. We can only be good by true, intentional, selfless love. Divorced from reward, consequence, or biological equivalents.
No power structure, no conversion. Just first principles to call humanity to good. But it requires those 3 dictum. We can move any further as a species without, otherwise we'll just continue the cycle of kings and slaves.
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>>24464813
>10,000 years from now nobody will care about your personal speed run or pizza tower or how clutch a nuzlocke run was for you.
Nobody will care about your life either.
Being remembered is not the point of life. We all get forgotten. The point is to enjoy yourself.
>We can move any further as a species without, otherwise we'll just continue the cycle of kings and slaves.
Whatever. The world will always have a greedy upper class. That will never change.
I agree that loving others is good, but we don't need to believe in God or hate ourselves to do that. I often help others just because I feel like it.
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>>24464878
Acknowledging your evil is not hating yourself, it is addressing what you would otherwise deny that keeps you transactional in nature. Currying benefits, avoiding consequences, and living purely by your nature that will lead you back to evil.
It's a harsh truth, but a necessary one to bring our souls to strive for true, selfless, intentional love.
The christ-like nature is the exact personification of that. An omnipotent, omniscient being that humbles himself to torture and death for the sake everyone who lives.
The thought that a billionaire, much less any average man would subject themselves to such humility is near impossible, because they believe they are good. They are like Job, who follows all the rules, is wealthy, and powerful. But God had to subject him to countless cruelities before he could realize that his entire life was purely transactional. Not selfless, unconditional, and loving.
No man who walks the earth should ever be proud or speak of his virtues for he is evil and currying favor and rejecting consequences by his actions. He is a whitewashed tomb. Expounding your "good deed" proves it's not good, it's transactional
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>>24465106
>It's a harsh truth, but a necessary one to bring our souls to strive for true, selfless, intentional love.
The way you talk about "God" and "love" STILL makes you sound like an SJW.
"You need to aknowledge that you have subconscious biases and white male privilege!"
Again, you aren't special. You are just like every other fucking activist. Leave my board alone.
>They are like Job, who follows all the rules, is wealthy, and powerful.
Job was that guy who basically got tortured by God and then Job finally snapped and said "Why God why?" and then God said "How DARE you? You little shit!"
The God of the Bible is basically an abusive parent.
>But God had to subject him to countless cruelities before he could realize that his entire life was purely transactional.
That's still abuse. Your God is a sadist.
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>>24465180
Your reading skills are extremely poor if that is what you pruned from the book of job. The moral of the story is you do everything 100% exactly by the rules and still not be selfless, intentional, and loving in what you do.
God had to go to such lengths to get job to admit that he saw God as a magic genie that blessed you if curry reward and cursed you if you incurred repercussions. God had to show him that through everything he was doing he did it only because he believed in the transactional nature of God's goodness, not knowing what actual, true, intentional, selfless love is.
Job lists all his actions that are 1-to-1 God's exact rules and God proves that he did them because of his transactional nature, which is rooted in evil, not from a true, intentional, selfless love.
Finally at the end of everything, Job stops protesting God and admits his fault and most importantly, he immediately prayed for his friends who had tortured him, blaming him for every sin under the sun when he didn't actually break any rules. Only after he did an act of pure, unconditional, intentional love, did God finally remove his curses because his "most faithful servant" finally understood what it meant to be good.
Job was a self-righteous robot doing everything right but without a soul. He didn't do the right thing because it came from true good, the selfless, intentional, unconditional love, and God had to take him to such extremes to teach this wisdom so none would make Jobs mistake. It's the most overlooked aspect of the torahs "books of wisdom "
And Jobs lesson is personified in christ who submitted himself to torture and death selflessly, unconditionally, and intently with love.
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>>24465340
This is just the religious version of leftists who tell me "You MUST help people of color and, even if you do, you're STILL racist deep down!"
You are just proving that you are the religious equivalent of a leftist more and more with every post that you make.
>"muh transactional!"
Leftists don't think that I deserve anything in return either.
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>>24465396
Doing things in the purview of racism, classism, or any other ism attenuating blame and victim is itself putting transactional parameters on what you do.
>Do this to not be racist (anti-racism will curry rewards, racism will cause consequence)
likewise if you were in an ethnostate like Israel
>Do this to not be anti-semetic (racism will curry rewards, and anti-racism will cause consequences)
In all this institutional power structures, you are just playing the same game of kings and slaves. Humanity tethered down by the belief in innate good and good people. Or worse, a world that is purely might makes right. Or more modern, wealth makes right.
Humanity requires the humility to see their own evil, to know we are not good, we should never be proud or lord over others for their self-aggrandized ideas that they are good. They must be selfless, intentional, unconditional, and loving.
When that notion breaks the human facade that "we're all good people deep down!" then we can make progress to working towards embodying selfless, intentional, unconditional, and loving ways that break the cycle of kings and slaves.
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>>24465456
people talk a lot about Marxism and not enough about how the atheist socialists in mexico that tried to kill all catholics in the 1920s
Article 3: Outlawed religious education and mandated that all schooling be secular.
Article 5: Outlawed monastic orders and convents.
Article 27: Banned the Church from owning property; all church buildings became state property.
Article 130: Stripped priests of basic civil rights. They were denied the right to vote, forbidden from wearing clerical clothing in public, and banned from criticizing the government or laws.
In 1926, he signed the "Calles Law," which put severe criminal penalties on the 1917 constitutional articles. Under his rule: Foreign priests were deported. Priests were forced to register with the government to get a license to preach. State governments were given the power to cap the number of priests permitted to serve. Some states reduced the legal limit to zero. People could be fined or jailed for saying "Adiós" (With God) in public, or for wearing religious medals.
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>>24459311
When you truly embraces atheism, you not only reject the existence of gods but also the existence of a universal moral system. Slavery, rape, murder, cannibalism all were considered good im certain situations by some societies. Real atheism is powerful because it lets you choose whatever moral system suits you best to achieve your goals. Atheists that still follow abrahamic dogmas don't really understand atheism.
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>>24465954
>You choose moral relativism
The weakest choice of all, none at all.
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>>24465923
True. There are many cases of atheists using systems to slaughter people. The French Revolution is another fine example.
>>24465933
>it only happened a few times
>ignores all Marxist countries.
No system in history has ever matched the oppression and whole sale slaughter of atheist Marxism.
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>>24466142
>No system in history has ever matched the oppression and whole sale slaughter of atheist Marxism.
What about the Christian Empires and Islamic Caliphates which came earlier?
What about all of the other religious dictatorships that existed long before the first atheist dictatorships existed?
Do you know ANYTHING about history before the 18th Century?
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>>24466209
In fact they are all evil. But none of them acknowledged their innate evil, so they all thought their intention, motives, and actions were good.
They all, even the Christian rulers lacked selfless, intentional, unconditional love.
Rashid and Charlemagne are the closest we ever got to righteous rulers but even they were flawed and their descendants didn't learn from their example and were depraved with power.