ESL thread.

>>108634301
Imo it gets overly hyped in /vr/.
I like MIDI music though in old games.

I blame the default Windows GM soundfont, it's terrible. Brings back memories, but terrible.

>>108634301
it is an extremely old, limited and inaccurate standard that has been superseded by artnet, osc, even usb midi is better than traditional DIN.

>>108634466
UOL reply

>>108634301
People don't know about sound fonts, vsts or let alone dedicated physical modules. Mainstream dropped it over 20 years ago. It doesn't help that synths that sound good are locked down to Windows and maybe Mac.

>>108634301
It sounds cheesy and lame, even with one of the "good" sound fonts. Specifically talking about old PC game music, by the way. MIDI itself is fine.

>>Why sometimes doesn't General MIDI get the respect it deserves
He's a general who has lost every war that he fought. A bit like that tattooed alcoholic in the pentagon.

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>>108634301

>>108634301
midi is cool but autistic people like you make it less cool

its specifically something only for video games and it was such an awful bandaid for real sound. love for it is only nostalgia and nothing more

>>108637925
>midi
>its specifically something only for video games
absolute retard

>>108634301
As far as video games are concerned, there's just too many differences between how different MIDI devices sound
Some games sound great on an MT32, others require a Sound Canvas, some are only decent on Yamaha XG hardware, while others require an OPL3, or even a GUS! And that's not even getting into softsynths or more obscure hardware.
This all leads to 90% of all MIDI music sounding somewhere between okay and awful on your chosen hardware, with the remaining 10% being actually good. And this number stands no matter what hardware you have, unless you've got everything and are willing to deal with constantly switching between various bits of hardware.
That's why CD audio, MOD music, WAV files and so on are so much better. They sound the same everywhere.

G-Code to MIDI is the workingman's music.

>>108637975
ah I see you are ESL and don't understand the existence of soundfonts

MIDI is a protocol for controlling electronic musical instruments, sound fonts, aka some faggot in a studio arbitrarily deciding whats good, are a marketing format for sample banks that are exclusively used in old videogames before CDs could actually deliver real audio content

now go ahead and kill yourself please

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>>108639515
>>only post "absolute retard"
>ah I see you are ESL

>>108634755
>superseded by artnet, osc
Are you sure you know what midi is?

Yes, english is my second language and i do understand using things like WAV or CD :p

>>108634301
i love the roland sound canvas so much, pure soul for retro gaming music creation. nobuo used it for final fantasy

>>108641964
he used the 88 pro to be exact. I think he still used it for some tracks in FFX

>>108634301
>respecting a standard that defines a list of 128 instruments
Not sure what "respect" it deserves desu

>>108634301
why bother with midi when I have electric guitars?

>>108634637
yeah, it permanently tainted the midi file concept.

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>>108635462
Yabridge can work pretty well on Linux (except for wine wow64 breaking 32bit VSTs)
Of course there aren't really any great DAWs on Linux, but you can at least use it with software that supports MIDI.

>>108642549
I just run NirSoft MIDI Player through Wine

>>108642549
>Of course there aren't really any great DAWs on Linux
reaper works natively on linux

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a boomer living not far from me is selling an almost-never-used edirol sd-90 for €100. those are listed for €300 on ebay. should i buy it? it has an usb port.

>>108644074
I'd say yes, if it works then ofc.

>>108642198
That's true lol

>>108634301
Dunno what communities you hang out in, but from what I see MIDI is respected for what it is.
If you care about the notes, or have restrictions somewhere that prevent fully sampled music, you like MIDI. Nothing else is as universal.

>>108644074
That's a great price. It's usually marked up because of its 2hu connection

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>>108648511
midi seems more suited for live performances than releasing music; unlike a tracker that is playing the samples included in the music file, midi is about sending events to devices. (a midi file is a record of events, like a demo in video gaming (quake, cstrike, ...))

i often listen to https://chiptune.app/browse
but avoid the XG midi files, the player doesn't have the effects implemented.

1. go to settings (they only appears after you play a midi file)
3. set SoundFont to "EmperorGrieferus SC-55 (58.7 MB)"
4. active the little pin to lock the settings
5. uncheck "Auto Synth Engine Switching" (and set the pin)
6. enjoy

The folder /Game MIDI/ has a lot of official midi files, either from the game files or from album releases (midi albums were distributed on floppy disks in japan).

you may start with
Castlevania Chronicles (Sharp X68000, 1993) (SC-55)
Warcraft 2 (PC∕DOS, 1995)
Touhou 2 – Story of Eastern Wonderland (NEC PC-98, 1997)

folder /Roland SMF MIDI Disks/ also has lot of pro midi files.

>digital
>instrument
Please don't make me laugh, others in the home are sleeping.

>>108651006
I already have a huge library but still a cool site, specially since you can use your own MIDI hardware.

https://litter.catbox.moe/v17yevm0cs2xat56.mp4

https://litter.catbox.moe/utrg5pitx3su369p.mp4

I have never liked soundfonts for GM playback
They always sound like they where put together halfassed, with non-normalized samples and incomplete instrument layers and sample quality being a mixed bag due to them being taken from many devices from different manufactures.

>>108651146
>I have never liked soundfonts for GM playback

hardware modules also rely on soundfont (or wave tables). It's hard to have everything in one font because those modules could accept patches to add/replace samples.

the best sc55 font for fluidsynth is by EmperorGrieferus
https://archive.org/details/sc-55_20250708

after that, you have the Nuked SC-55 emulator
https://github.com/nukeykt/Nuked-SC55

Mame has now a few decent emulators for audio devices like the yamaha mu50.

and finally, there is the pro emulators from roland and yamaha themselves: soundcanvas VA and yamaha S-YXG50 (both are discontinued).

https://archive.org/downlod/roland-sound-canvas-va
https://veg.by/en/projects/syxg50/

>>108639515
I thought MIDI was just a way to send notes to virtual instruments but didn't have an ''inherent'' sound by itself

>>108634301
For the longest time you either had to buy an expensive-ass external device like that, or deal with a generic and shitty soundfont. Even further back, you had something even worse: FM Synthesis. inb4 some crtroon-tier nostalgia addict pretends fm synth was anything but trash
Now it's trivial to spin up virtualmidisynth and run a high quality soundfont, but midi is dead.

>>108651006
It isnt far more easier to download soundcanvas and get VST Midi Synth to make it default
is pretty much what i did here to run SC-55 and SC-88

>>108653679
>inb4
Used well, FM synthesis can sound fabulous. Used poorly, it sounds like a chorus of farts.
It was almost never used well unfortunately.

>>108634301
Because they only know the windows synth and "soundfonts"
>>108637590
>>108651146
There are no good sound fonts.
>>108637925
It was also for amateur sound production and karaoke.
>>108651968
They are all ROMplers or RAmplers. "Wavetable synth" is a completely different thing, whose name was stolen by creative labs for marketing their trashy sound cards

>>108638536
>This all leads to 90% of all MIDI music sounding somewhere between okay and awful on your chosen hardware, with the remaining 10% being actually good. And this number stands no matter what hardware you have, unless you've got everything and are willing to deal with constantly switching between various bits of hardware.

Isn't this fixable with software?
Maybe this will piss off audiophiles but with the right software you can replicate any hardware exactly that's just fact.
Or is it a rights issue where they don't want to release 30 year old samples to the general public?

I feel being able to change the way a song sounds is a strength of MIDI not a weakness.

I only ever used MIDI as an aid to learn to play the piano though.

>>108634637
I like it...
I tend to like midi soundfonts that aren't trying to sound as realistic as possible because that tends to put them in an uncanny valley. If I am going to listen to a midi I want it to so more primitive, that's the sound I enjoy. The default microsoft soundfont sounds the best with a lot of midi music. I often even choose soundfonts even more primitive sounding.

Anyway, midi's got hate because of boomers who hated and mocked any and all electronic sounds. They loved saying it "Wasn't real music", and midi's got mocked harder than any electronic sound.

>>108654816
Windows soundfount was low quality in every way though. Objectively.

>>108654940
Hard disagree. Do you even virtualmidisynth and switch between soundfonts? I've spent a lot of time doing this for years. The microsoft soundfont is actually one of the most balanced ones there are if you judge fairly. What it's not is "realistic", which again I don't find desirable anyway.

>>108654978
We're talking about the default Windows GM emulation soundfont though, the one that came with 9x.

>>108654992
I even like that one. I can't find that soundfont for modern windows so I have to use 86box which is annoying.
Modern one is the same one used in xp and up if I'm not mistaken. Usually an upgrade to the older one.

>>108654992
>>108654940
That's funny, Windows 98 had FM Synthesis.

>>108654307
>It was almost never used well unfortunately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0rWZb1xuSE

>>108655237
It uses a soundfont for software MIDI.

>>108655242
>>108655237
Win 9x uses the hardware synth with VxD audio drivers, and also has the MS softsynth if you use a WDM driver.
The MS softsynth has very low quality versions of sounds from the Roland SC55 and also doesn't support its sound shaping effects. Tragically it's what most people now think of when they hear "general midi".
Soundfont is a creative labs invention of storing samples in RAM. It generally sounded pretty bad but marketing of it was very successful. Later on people made "realistic" soundfonts, they were gigabytes in size and sounded like dogshit.
If you want the true generam midi/Roland GS/XG Midi experience, use Nuked SC55 and the Yamaha XG softsynth. Or buy the real modules.

>>108634301
Nice try Clint. Go back to jewtube.

>>108655645
Dude is probably richer than you while doing shit he likes.

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>>108651968
>after that, you have the Nuked SC-55 emulator
>https://github.com/nukeykt/Nuked-SC55
>Mame has now a few decent emulators for audio devices like the yamaha mu50.
>and finally, there is the pro emulators from roland and yamaha themselves: soundcanvas VA and yamaha S-YXG50 (both are discontinued).
>https://archive.org/downlod/roland-sound-canvas-va
>https://veg.by/en/projects/syxg50/

I know about them and use most of those, I also submit bug reports to mame github for them.It will take years for the mame emulation of the Yamaha MU series to run properly.

If only nukeykt were to tackle emulation of the Yamaha MU series...

>>108655242
Nope.
t. actually had a windows 98 pc

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>>108655931
See >>108655292
>and also has the MS softsynth

>t. actually had a windows 98 pc
I have several right now.

>>108654782
No, it isn't just fact you digitlet.
In fact there's an entire multi billion dollar industry with extremely intelligent fluid dynamitists and programmers try to replicate analog sound production.

Also wtf is this thread, midi is meaningless for sound. it's like saying a picture looks better through http or ftp.

>>108655978
General MIDI isn't the same thing as MIDI.

>>108656055
are are how into the midis is it good or not.

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>>108634301
The Doom community respects it and if your WAD has an MP3 or non midi track (supported by the newer source ports, mainly GZDoom), people freak out.

>>108634301
There's just no reason to restrict yourself to actual, pure GM. There are no technical limitations. It's simpler and more effective to use old samples and soundfonts and do whatever you want with them if that's the style you're going for.

>>108656578
I swear the Doom community is full of a bunch of leftist, furries, and trannies. Bunch of fucking turbo faggots. I love old Doom but I don't like the community at large.
Oh and vertical aiming with the mouse is the best way to play and it's not even close.

>>108657295
Autism, plain and simple

>>108634301
Is this the MIDI player ZUN used for the older touhou games?

>>108658588
maybe it is
maybe it isnt

>>108634637
pretty much. most people (myself at the time included) don't really know how it works or had much interest in finding out so they just used whatever their soundcard/os did ootb. for most of that this meant the stock mini 4MB soundfont built into windows
midi can sound pretty good on decent/intended hardware
https://youtu.be/h-jOw0tWv-o
https://youtu.be/Z_LfE6gV9ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKY3ztADb9I&list=PL_BhbJAAueZTQAAVG2yx_v8dRZUs272Vu

>>108656578
can you really call it a doom wad if it can't be played on a 486DX2?

>>108642549

https://www.reaper.fm/download.php

>>108634301
>Our system thinks your post is spam
You can use vstdriver + midimapper to make a VST like Sound Canvas VA work for MIDI systemwide.
You can even add multiple VSTs and switch between them from the taskbar icon.
https://pastebin.com/raw/srLpnZgS

>>108653908
over here only the Edirol Virtual Sound Canvas VST sounds even remotely like my old SC-55 recordings.

then again I only use foobar 2000 midi plugin, so its either vsti or bassmidi + soundfont, and none of the soundfonts are close enough.

>>108662088
i found the last version of roland VTSi that was still in the wild and i used it.
which is the one >>108655754 posted here
it is how i am even playing wing commander privateer without soundfonts

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For me, it's the Casio DH-100 Digital Midi Sax.

>>108634301
>general midi is now a sound
>not a communications protocol

>>108643931
He said GOOD not substandard.

>>108634301
I like generals that WIN WARS.

>>108634301
I think people appreciate it without knowing it. Rei harakami’s music uses the SC88 pro exclusively. If im not mistaken it does go beyond general midi but it is general midi hardware

I think there’s also just something about sampling in general. PC98 and sega megadrive OSTs on yamaha fm chips sound much more timeless, vs e.g. SNES

>>108634637
agree

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>>108634301
easier and lotsa free ones.

>>108666586
>PC98 and sega megadrive OSTs on yamaha fm chips sound much more timeless
if rom constraints weren't a thing back in snes's day it was capable of playing really high quality sounds but everyone's memory of it is muddy and filtered slop with echo/reverb effects. all the fm stuff still sounds excellent. snes audio aged like milk

>>108666942
>all the fm stuff still sounds excellent
"all" is one hell of an exaggeration, a huge amount of FM music is a horribly grating collection of farts and power tools that sounded shit even at the time.
In the hands of people who know what they're doing, both the SNES and FM systems can sound great. In the hands of people who are less experienced (which was a lot of game devs of the time), FM tended to be worse off.

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>>108634301
are you japanese? in the west we have a different experiance with midi. it was commonly shared on awful (in a good way) web1.0 geocities pages. it usually sounded very bad. Even when I listen to japanese versions which are better composed with midi fonts, I cant help but prefer lower fidelity chips like the soundboard yamaha 86 sfc 700 or generic chiptune sounds for retro feelings. I guess the best of both worlds would be if you combined them.

Back in the day, touhou shipped demos with midi only by the way. They are the songs in midi i liked the most, but after experiancing them in the full game I could never go back.

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>>108667130
>>108634301
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0IxAKCxyOM
heres an example of the combination of both. I think this sounds great but the original midi is hard to prefer over the regular internal.

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>>108641969
>>108641964
I strongly prefer Junya Nakano work

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still got one of these

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>>108667160
using with this cable

Someone else is going to try reverse engineer the Yamaha MU line
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=1418266#p1418266

>>108667175
Some of those chink USB-MIDI-cables are awful, corrupting data if sending too fast or using sysex messages, and do not even contain an optoisolator required by midi spec.

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>have soundfonts for sc-55 and sc-88
>sc-55 sounds infinitely superior
>see others' recordings with sc-88
>it sounds completely different from what I have

>>108667106
>because i listen to shit that means it horribly grating
cringe. fm is vastly superior. always will be.

>>108670086
Probably because they are not proper soundfonts using directly dumped samples and the patch programming actually reproduced, but crappy recorded from line out samples of the whole sound that fails to reproduce any of the character of the actual synthesis and how it responds to velocity, modulators etc.

>>108644074
how about an sd-80 for $150

>>108652671
It is, but good luck explaining this to bideo game enthusiasts.

>>108634637
Well you'll be happy to know that Windows 10's done away with it for some fucking reason.

>>108671815
Na, GS is still in Windows 10, the UI for selecting it is hidden.
I forget the run command, but you can bring up the midi selector that was in the Control Panel and still select it to this day.

>>108644074
ooooh, schematics printed on the chassis ... CHEFFS KISS!

:-) Oh man, I really miss this in the past! Even if neither you nor your repairman ever knew the brand, the schematics was always there and readable.

For far we have fallen.

>>108672147
Yeah. Back when people used to give a damn.

>>108653679
> even worse: FM Synthesis
FM is great. Back in the day I loved listening to midi files on my opl3. And even when I no longer had real hardware, I wrote my own opl3 midi player that used emulation, and the source code of the windows opl3 midi driver (available as a sample drive in the winddk) to exactly replicate the same sound. And of course, when playing doom I always select opl3 emulation. Because the true sound of doom is opl3.

>>108642549
Might want to give bitwig a try, created by ex ableton employees and is functionally pretty similar

>>108667122
I love the empty space. It's like a sound card for Taoists.

MIDI died out as something normal people used once it became trivial to ship mp3s. It often doesn't matter how good the soundfont or hardware is. A good composer+sound engineer will produce a better quality final recording (even if they use midi inputs) than randos will never get out of their midi players.

>>108670086
just get the official plugin you retard

>>108678325
>just spend money bro
No.

>>108654782
>Isn't this fixable with software?
It mostly is now. But do you have any idea how fucking long it took?
Half decent emulation of even common MIDI devices have only been around since the early 2010's. And by that time MIDI had been dead for consumer use for more than a decade.
Of course there's some exceptions in the form of really good softsynths going back to the 90's, but that shit was a top dollar proprietary paid product, like the Yamaha XG softsynth. And they were a compatibility nightmare.

>>108678590
holy shit you hopelessly retarded zoomers will truly be the downfall of mankind https://files.catbox.moe/3xpk1s.zip