>>109001254
This image cannot be real because nobody would greenlight such placement of solar panels.

>>109001282
China does,

>>109001254
Yeah, we're collectively doing the wrong thing because of the people that lead us. I am not saying the government, the true rulers above governments.
If you keep thinking that they want what's sensible and good for us, you're wrong. You will keep being wrong.

File: IMG_9423.jpg (378.4 KB)

>>109001254
If every state in the US had at lease 6-12 nuclear reactors and the higher population states had 15-30 nuclear by 1995 then we could’ve have the electric utopia the greens are dreaming about.

Picrel is the interior of the GM EV-1 in 1997.

All the tech GM developed was owned by a GM subsidiary named Magnequench and was sold to a Chinese electric motor company

>>109001493
That's sexy af

>>109001254
>t.Thiel bot
... goes in all fields.

>>109001533
Yep peak late 90s GM AC Delco futuristic. No touchscreens but plenty of. Anyone who’s ever owned a late 90s-early mid-2000’s GM can instantly recognize it is GM. Everyone who spent time with it, praised it.
Here’s motorweek
https://youtu.be/KTryhfFWnC8

File: 1920px-Universe_of_Energy_3.jpg (469.5 KB)

>>109001456
This. Oil families and their banking cousins push every alternative energy solution that won't work while publishing 'just two more weeks' in mainstream news to keep ecotards strung along.

>>109001540
70 years and you retards still can't see it.

>>109001554
> No touchscreens but plenty of TECH

Forgot a word

>>109001254
literally destroying the environment

>>109001254
>>109001577
solar panels (+ batteries) literally give you independence and freedom to control YOUR OWN ENERGY
and you are talking about muh oil muh nuclear
BRAINDEAD SHILL

>>109001586
ever heard of agrivoltaics? solar panels actually help the environment.

>>109001254
SOLAR PANELS OWNED BY INDIVIDUALS AND COMMUNITIES BAD
CENTRALIZED, BIG CORP-OWNED ENERGY PRODUCTION GOOD

This board is so retarded kek

>>109001254
But then there wouldn't be any wars in the Middle East - Israel would never allow it.

>>109001493
Americans voted for all of this

>>109001282
China builds solar farms for two reasons. First their economic policies prioritizes spending money in infrastructure development to stop the economy from slowing down, in the west they lower the interest rate and sometimes gives money to banks and other institutions so the money velocity can increase.
Secondly they want to keep their solar cell production high so the west can buy as much as they want, I assume this is because they think that if the west heavily invests in solar that will weaken their grids. China keep solar as a relatively low part of their grid and they can install even more and still keep production quite low by installing it in ways such as pictures in the OP. Their installed capacity, which is what they market, will still look impressive and put the fear into western leaders so they invest into even more solar.

>>109001493
>If every state in the US had at lease 6-12 nuclear reactors and the higher population states had 15-30 nuclear by 1995 then we could’ve have the electric utopia the greens are dreaming about.
Great idea! Think of all of the spent fuel rods those would produce!

wow some glass and aluminium on a hilltop
so much worse than toxic radioactive waste that could raise cancer rates of an entire surrounding population if it leaks into their ground water

>>109001627
Imported from China too, right?

>>109001599
>solar panels actually help the environment.
Sure, brother. The leeched cadmium adds a sweet aftertaste to the lamb meat.

>>109001627
I'm sure the animals love it

>>109001627
Aluminium ions are highly neurotoxic.
If you only cook your food in aluminium cookware you will reduce your life expectancy by several years and vastly increased your risk of alzheimers.

>>109001609
solar panels are insecure luddite, update to the ai managed power grid now, luddite

>>109001609
Solar panels grant limited independence to high net worth individuals on a 10 year time frame while ensuring population centers stay shackled to the national grid. Small nuclear reactors make population centers independent on a hundred year time frame.

>>109001627
And cobalt and cadmium. Every broken solar panel poisons the land and takes far more energy than it will ever make to clean up.

>>109001254
environmentalism is dead now anon.

Now that we have infinity nonwhites moving to the first world we don't need to pretend anymore.

>>109001618
Spent fuel rods are just unrefined fuel.

>>109001686
brutal trvke

>>109001682
did some pajeet on twitter tell you that?

>>109001709
The Florida government told me that. We have some experience with solar farms.

>>109001618
Dang, 15-30 shipping containers of spent fuel rods a year that could be safely stored in salt mines. Shit, lets just burn coal or produce millions of tons of expensive unrecyclable solar panels.

>>109001640
>>109001682
>OMG 1 per billion parts of cadmium will leech to the soil (that already cointains it naturally) in the landfill!
>unlike all those radiactive leaks that happen all the time and go directly to drinking water sources!
https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1723/ML17236A511.pdf

File: G8GDh15WkAMUw-2.jpg (242.9 KB)

>>109001282
that land is unproductive like you cant grow food on it trees wont grow its just useless

>>109001716
>I saw some pajeet quote some government document out of context on twitter
Oh, I apologize. That's legit then.

>>109001721
NTA but the background radiation you get is a million trillion times more than anyone gets off any leaks.
All radiation being harmful is a retarded myth from the last century I thought we all understood already. We evolved under a ton of radiation and our cell machinery is incredibly robust against it.

>>109001727
humans don't have a good track record on deeming what's "worthless"

>>109001769
Radioactive material leaking into the ground water and getting ingested and potentially getting collected inside your body long-term is a completely different beast than being exposed to outside radiation, retard.

File: ass.png (38.1 KB)

>>109001618
According to Sonnet

>>109001790
If such dangerous hot particles actually were in anyones drinking water we'd all know about it.

>>109001804
this is something that literally happened in a German disposal site and increased leukemia rates were found in the surrounding population

You would have to cover the entire surface of every square meter of Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona to produce the same amount of energy as a single GE light water reactor.

Solar simply can’t compete with nuclear.

>>109001822
>source: some jeet on twitter

>>109001790
The vast majority of radioactive particles are released from burning coal and oil, which solar will never, ever replace because energy storage remains an unsolved problem.

>>109001781
If you don't like it then conquer China and stop it.

>>109001743
Nah I've known people who went through the soil remediation process, and it's a pain in the balls. You have to have it tested and treated iteratively until it's fixed. It's expensive and it ties up the land for a long time. You're never going to see honest studies about this.

>>109001908
>more bullshit without sources
I don't care

>>109001999
>i won't believe anything that isn't published in finance approved sources

>>109001577
JUST FIFTY MORE YEARS

>>109001254
It’s over OP.
You have been destroyed repeatedly in this thread. You have lost. Move on.

>>109002016
>no you have to believe a random anonymous post about what his uncle working at Cadmiumtendo told him
the fuck is wrong you
why do you waste everyone's time with this nonsense

>>109001618
"Oh no what will we do with all this depleted uranium" said the military industrial complex

>>109001627
>so much worse than toxic radioactive waste that could raise cancer rates of an entire surrounding population if it leaks into their ground water
you mean the particles from burning coal right
because that is one of the biggest sources of cancer in energy production

nuclear is not it

>>109002154
I don't see many solar advocates pushing coal
But I do see a lot of the same people pushing nuclear also pushing coal, like the current administration.

>>109002177
>le orange hitler gambit

>>109002177
>But I do see a lot of the same people pushing nuclear also pushing coal
this is virtue signalling
they say they like nuclear but then actively oppose it and dig their heels in when push comes to shove

>>109001716
ah, the Conservative parasite race in the real estate scam state

that's Israeli bullshit to preserve petrofascism

>>109002077
I'm just asking you to read between the lines, but apparently the brainwashing runs too deep. Maybe one day you'll grow up and have the misfortune to invest in what the finance press tells you to, and you'll learn the hard way what news is actually for.

>>109002191
Sorry for triggering you by mentioning the current government but again where are the solar advocates also advocating for more coal?

>>109002214
How is solar going to replace oil when it doesn't make power at night and people will never be able to buy enough batteries?

>>109002218
In the Chinese Communist Party. Not a political inference, just what they do.

>>109001254
This but unironically.

>>109002224
decent energy grid storage would literally be cheaper and faster than building enough nuclear power plants everywhere

>>109002224
wind hydro nuclear and maybe natural gas
coal is dead

>>109002232
The Chinese invested immensely in not just renewables but also nuclear to lessen their dependence on coal.
They have to import this shit, they're highly motivated in getting out of coal.

File: 1757507189393602.jpg (68.2 KB)

Nuclear is objectively the best solution for energy generation. It's plentiful, it has no emissions, it's responsible for less radioactive contaminants than coal is since coal often contains radioactive isotopes of carbon and is less regulated. I don't give a shit about your strawmen or personal politics. Nuclear is the best. The problem is it requires a lot more upfront infrastructure and investment than slapping some solar panels on a bunch of hills in addition to more active upkeep, but the benefits greatly outweigh the costs

>>109002239
>source jeets from tesla

>>109001254
you’re the ones using energy. just stop using energy and the rich will be hung by the lamppost

>>109002288
Tesla knows a thing about batteries

>>109002242
>wind
doesn't work; ask germoney
>hydro
finite supply; already tapped
Why are the most impractical means of energy generation always first in the ecoshitter's mind? Who could've programmed this?

>>109002301
less about profits and opportunity cost

>>109002304
>doesn't work; ask germoney
??
are you trying to twist germany retardedly decommissioning their nuclear plants into wind somehow being bad?

>>109002304
says the guy spouting the same shit boomers said since the 50s even though nuclear power never managed to make much of a profit

>>109002326
They have just not in America. Stalinist energy always includes the Western regulatory cost of nuclear in their price analysis while lying about the impact of meme energy.

>>109001617
Interesting, thank you for your input.

>>109001554
excellent safety too, if you got in an accident and ended up trapped in the vehicle all the acid from the tonne of lead-acid batteries in it would melt an escape route for you

>>109001254
That can't possibly generate even 70% of what they claim

>>109001618
Literally just use it again and then put it up for auction or bury it

File: electric-car-explodes-battery.gif (1.5 MB)

>>109002646
yeah things have really improved since then

>>109001790
>Radioactive
>long-term
american education

>>109002224
>How is solar going to replace oil when it doesn't make power at night
>>109002779
>>>109001790
>>Radioactive
>>long-term

this is the level of discussion you can find in this board. just incredibly retarded arguments from complete ignorance, and that's assuming good faith, and not an actual shilling campaign.

File: nuclear waste train.jpg (660.6 KB)

>>109001791
Roughly one acre of area stacked about ten stories high. To power the entire country. For three decades. Of course the big problem is getting it all to the designated storage facility safely. Pic related is how we do it today.

>>109001692
Except to refine normal fuel you can do it with minimal safety measures because it's barely radioactive. You could have it on your room unshielded for years and it probably would only slightly raise your chances of getting cancer unless you inhale it in dust form.
Spent fuel is screamingly radioactive and requires massive amounts of shielding and robotics to do anything with it because any human that gets exposed to it will receive a fatal dose in minutes.

>>109003007
>Roughly one acre of area stacked about ten stories high.

Cool. So we can put that all in your neighborhood?

>>109001618
>>109001692
>>109001718
With our technology today, we know that 20% of the fuel will decay by itself in a short time frame. Ca. 30% can be recycled. The remaining fuel, packaged with our current technology, takes up minimal space.
With all above combined, all the fuel rods of humanity ever decommissioned, would fit on less space than a football field.

>>109003055
If only there were huge uninhabited parts of the Earth which are tectonically stable.

>>109002824
>it doesn't make power at night
Grid scale storage is still a pipedream. 150 years in and the most energy efficient solution we have is pumping water uphill.
>long term radioactive
Be afraid of things which are radioactive for days less so centuries. Bananas are hot enough to trigger a Geiger counter but nobody cares.

>>109001254
Why not build some nuclear plants, put some solar panels, and leave some land for wilderness? Also those solar panels aren't stopping plants growing around them, and plants that want shade growing underneath.

Nuclear is wonderful in terms of pollution, but it isn't a true sustainable power source since there's a limited amount of usable uranium. There's enough for a LOT of power generation, but it'll last even longer if we're also using some of the much more plentiful sunlight as well. Solar panels are mostly made of plentiful elements, and newer ones recycle.

>>109003055
Bad faith argument.

>>109003780
>150 years in and the most energy efficient solution we have is pumping water uphill.
Whats so bad about pumping water uphill? It's cheap and efficient. It sounds primitive, but nuclear plants do too when you realize we're just using it to boil water and then force the steam through turbines.

>>109003055
>So we can put that all in your neighborhood?
Sure. Modern nuclear is safe. It's hard to get freight train tracks through a suburb though, property values are higher here, and transmission loss on high voltage power lines isn't too bad, so it probably makes more practical sense to build it a bit further out.

>>109003712
>If only there were huge uninhabited parts of the Earth which are tectonically stable

Cool. So we can put that all in your country?

File: file.png (651.7 KB)

my chrome book runs at 5 watts but a tahoe gas chamber runs at 244,000 watts!

Those 124 thousand watt hour electric tesla gas chambers would be cool if they had publicly accessible out lets on them.

>>109004446
>the gas chamber schizo is on /g/ too
Christ alive man you sure get around don't you?

File: file.png (86.8 KB)

sonic has been fighting the gas chamber since 1991

>>109001727
>that anon is unproductive like you cant make it work cant make it breed its just useless

>>109001282
I would be surprised if China did. They've been doing retarded shit like this since the communist revolution.

>>109001674
population centers will literally never be independent because they can't grow food.

sorry Thiel, you're never getting your technofeudalist city-states.

>>109001790
do you know how drinking dilute dissolved uranium ions in drinking water would actually kill you?

heavy metal toxicity.

the radioactivity is peanuts compared to the chemical similarity of uranium to heavy metals like cadmium/mercury/lead, all of which catalyze the production of reactive oxygen species in cellular environments.

>>109003884
people do not understand how geologically common uranium is. shit's fucking *everywhere.* radon is everywhere literally because uranium decaying into radon is everywhere.

>>109004603
most of that uranium is underground and the ground is a good radiation blocker
radon is particularly nasty though because it exists as a noble gas meaning it can easily be inhaled, plus its also far more radioactive than just uranium alone as evidence of its short half-life. Most people aren't actually at risk of radon irradiation though unless you happen to live directly downwind of a stripmine or industrial park

>>109004586
That's the major problem with using depleted uranium rounds and armor for war materiel.

As no doubt most people here know, heavy metals are relatively safe when in metallic form but are harmful at any dose when in ionic form.
Lead is relatively stable, so even though it's not good that it's used in a lot of ammunition the contamination is still generally localized and minor.
Uranium is pyrophoric, when exposed to a lot of friction, such as when something hits a DU armor plate or when a DU round hits a target, it'll partially (or fully) ignite and a lot of uranium ions will spread over a large area and the contamination will remain for a long time.
Also the dust will stay in the air for an extended period and vastly increase exposure. It's very, very toxic.

>>109004603
Many water distribution centers have filters for uranium to make fresh water that have high levels of naturally occurring uranium safe to drink.

>>109004620
i was refuting a comment worrying about uranium scarcity for nuclear

it ain't scarce at all - and REALLY easy to find.

likewise with thorium.

in fact, fuel reprocessing lost much of its research funding in the US because uranium became so ridiculously cheap to acquire within decades of the first nuclear power plants.

>>109004620
More than decay you have to concern yourself with how it decays and how you're exposed to it.
Radon typcially radiates alpha radiation, which is by far the worst one that can occur inside your body, which is what happens when you breathe it in. It can also typically be stopped by a piece of paper.

>>109001254
Surely that cannot be efficient...
Also who says greentards are against Nuclear? That's a decisively Germanic type of autism.

>>109001727
You are wrong.
Food can be grown and there are trees very close to that location. Only because is not flat terrain with a micro climate ideal for industrial farming doesn't mean the land is unproductive.

>>109001617
I don’t think that’s the case. If you want the West to be more energy insecure you use any energy source that isn’t coal or solar, at least for Europe. Nuclear fuel is all sourced from Kazakhstan which is surrounded by Russians and sandniggers on all sides, gas and oil is sourced from sandniggers and Russians, coal also sourced from Russians because there is not enough of it in EU anymore, wind is extremely unreliable because while sun at least always shines for half a day followed by night for half a day, wind can be completely random. Hydro is already build on every river and dam where you can build it and geothermal requires very specific spots to build. For US idk because US has tons of resources thanks to its bigger size and lower population density.

>>109004656
There are a lot of papers citing how long resource x will last that are used for scaremongering. They typically only take into account actual mines or at best proven reserves.
If nuclear actually started to become the backbone of the global energy grid we would soon start to reprocess fuel and build reactors that can actually used >90% of the fuel instead of just 1-2% such as in a typical second generation BWR.

>>109004679
>>I don’t think that’s the case. If you want the West to be more energy insecure you use any energy source that isn’t coal or solar, at least for Europe.
As I stated I disagree. I think they want Europe to build solar specifically to weaken the European grid, they want what happened to the Iberian grid last year to be more common, they want the de-industrialization of Germany to accelerate. A part of their plan is to export solar PV cheaply.

>Nuclear fuel is all sourced from Kazakhstan which is surrounded by Russians and sandniggers on all sides,
>Nuclear fuel is all sourced from Kazakhstan

Australia has a lot of mines and additional reserves.
Europe has a lot of reserves too, Sweden could start uranium mine in a few years if the will was there.

Uranium, or thorium, supply and a not a major issue. Rare earth minerals for super alloys used in nuclear reactors is a far worse problem.


>gas and oil is sourced from sandniggers and Russians, coal also sourced from Russians because there is not enough of it in EU anymore, wind is extremely unreliable because while sun at least always shines for half a day followed by night for half a day, wind can be completely random. Hydro is already build on every river and dam where you can build it and geothermal requires very specific spots to build.
The more solar and wind the grid has, the more reliant on gas one becomes.

Did you know Rome is on approximately the same latitude as New York?
You can't go much further south they Rome and still be in Europe and new York is in the northern US.
Solar is not a good option for Europe for most of the year, except for a few countries. You typcially get less than 30W per square meter at noon for several months of the year in large parts of Europe. You'd need batteries that lasts for months if you rely too much on solar.

>>109004745
just use a separated flow battery and you can store charge for centuries by simply... separating the two sides physically. the extra infrastructure vs solid states is only really a problem for mobile batteries where weight is a problem (e.g. cars, drones), it's a nonissue for static installations.

thinking grid storage requires anything more complex than cheap-as-fuck lead acid batteries is always a midwit take.

>>109004796
If you want to store 3 months worth of grid consumption the feasibility is limited by a lot more factors than price.
Space becomes a major factor. Build time becomes a major factor.
Very high EROI of your energy production becomes critical if you don't want to put your country on a downward spiral.
Catastrophic failure becomes a major problem.

There are many more factors that makes seasonal storage a very difficult problem.

>>109001617
>I assume this is because they think that if the west heavily invests in solar that will weaken their grids
Not if, they assume the west will invests in solar as part of Paris agreement. Just like Brazil with their flex fuel production, third world like China with sufficient tech progress tend to invest and look for future (usually green energy) tech as a way for them to gain a marketshare in the future because it's relatively new and thus give them with a similar starting point as everyone else

>>109004828
you underestimate the joules that can be stored in large tanks of electrolyte. space wise it'd be comparable to strategic fuel reserves - entirely doable, and no more prone to catastrophic failure than such reserves are.

>>109001254
It would take roughly 1.7% of France's total area to be overed with a 50% solar, 50% windmill mix to cover 100% electricity usage. Double it to 3.5 if you want full electrification of all cars: delivery trucks, personal vehicles etc.

Is 96.5% area for everything else not a sufficient amount of place?

How exactly do Solarfags intend to keep all those solar panels clean? Solar panels lose a considerable amount of efficiency to dirt buildup and being exposed to the elements. For small solar projects this is obviously simple but for ones on the scale needed to properly replace coal would require a substantial amount of regular maintenance and it's not trivial

File: Sunshine.jpg (149.2 KB)

>>109002304
>ask germoney
Germany and most of Europe in general is a terrible argument for solar and wind because the weather is fucking gloomy as hell over there. Dunkelflaute is a very uniquely Europoor phenomenon. Compared to anywhere in the Southwest, where the average amount of sunny days per year is 300, or the midwest where the wind every now and again gets so strong it eats a few farmhouses.

The fact that America has some of the most energy rich land practically anywhere in the world yet is allergic to utilizing it, while Europe who has some of the most energy poor land in the world and is deadset on utilizing it is some sort of sick cosmic joke.

>>109004888
>How exactly do Solarfags intend to keep all those solar panels clean?
I have panels on my roof and I haven't cleaned them even once, and they've been there for over 2 years now. Seems to work fine. I guess the rain is enough?

File: Boden_000145_172855_518014_4578_(36613005322).jpg (2.5 MB)

>>109004920
>The fact that America has some of the most energy rich land practically anywhere in the world yet is allergic to utilizing it,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Project
Yuropoors could never

>>109004920
>Germany and most of Europe in general is a terrible argument for solar and wind
nah this is bullshit
Germany and most of Europe is shit for solar and wind and DESPITE that those are becoming the cheapest sources of electricity, now that batteries are going down in price year by year.
Solar and to a lesser degree wind won. It'll take a decade or two for reality to catch up but there's no amount of big oil propaganda that can stop it, especially when energy is one of the most basic things that every country wants to be independent on. If you're an oilless cuck and burgers start a sand war you're fucked in 2 months. If you're a solar cuck and chinks embargo your ass so no more panels or batteries you have 20 years to figure your shit out.

>>109004936
I got nearly blinded driving pas this fucker and thought someone activated helios one

>>109004936
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemasolar_Thermosolar_Plant
Also that plant is owned by Spanish investment bank

>>109004942
solar honestly feels like cheating if you know anything about energy production. solid state flat panels (trivial to manufacture compared to motors/generators) made of some of the most abundant materials on the planet that you can just plop in a field - nothing else was ever going to truly compete once they exceeded a level of efficiency they surpassed about a decade ago. now they're so cheap nothing will ever be able to compete with them again.

>>109004927
the electricity powering your home is actually fake (communist lies) and gay (woke)

>>109001618
anyone that makes this argument is a dumb nigger. You may ban me now nigger mod. Cry about it.

>>109004828
If you worry about build time then you nuclear is even less viable because of how costly it is to build.

>>109004920
It’s because in Europe every other energy source is even worse, no oil, no gas, ver little quality coal, no uranium. Americans are spoiled with all that energy which allowed oil jews to completely take over Republican Party because of muh petrodollar and generations of shared interest with 80 year old politicians. Only country that has every energy source in abundance would choose to fuck itself over this much.

>>109005220
Glad to know that the Democrats will allow nuclear power since they're not in the pocket of the oil companies.

>>109004874
A) the cost to do that would be enormous
B) how do you provide electricity at night
C) 100% of the land is being used for something as it is, what 3.5% are you going to take away for this project? Forests? Farmland? Residential housing? Industrial/commercial space?

>>109001254
Than burning coil and oil? Yes, fuck these stupid unusable rocks where 0.5 animals live, gimme recyclable energy

File: HKH9V_JW4AALahY.jpg (356.9 KB)

>>109001254
>solar bad
>nuglear bad
>coal bad
>gas bad
>wind bad

so how do we energy