Memegraph thread

Fundamentally different cultural values. It's not just about valuing honesty as a virtue for its own sake, but also valuing loyalty to institutions as much as if not more than loyalty to one's personal family, clan, or tribe. In most of the world, the hierarchy of loyalty puts the state at best second in line behind family, but often much lower.

So combine these two traits: honesty is not inherently valued, and being loyal to the state is less important than being loyal to your blood kin or even your friends. Then add in reasons for corruption that occur even in countries where loyalty to the state and honesty are esteemed, like financial insecurity or rampant criminality, which are arguably worse in those places which do not have loyalty and honesty in high regard. It's not hard to see why corruption is so prevalent in these places. Namely: they don't see it as "corruption" in the sense that westerners do. They see it as crafty people looking out for themselves and their own people by exploiting the incompetence of their superiors. And that is what it comes down to: in these places, failure to notice deceit is a personal failing, a lack of competence. If you cannot tell you have been cheated, it is your fault. The deceiver faces no real condemnation for his actions owing to the universally understood premise in these cultures that if one can get away with swindling an "outsider", then obviously you do it.

>>18429803
corruption comes from lack of responsibility towards the general public
which comes from top down power structure
which could be racial, cultural or even situational

>>18429825
Basically, the nords are golden retrievers? If we use a dog analogy.

>>18429855
the nords are a skyrim faction

>>18429803
>Whence cometh corruption?
Mostly opportunistic greed. You see an opportunity to gain, you think you can get away with it, you do it.
You can't really remove the opportunity, so the focus should be on removing the expectation of getting away with it.
>Why doesn't it exist in the Nordics?
They are too stupid to notice it. These maps are based on PERCEPTION.
How do you think nogs got there? Not even nordics are THAT bleeding hearted.

>>18429835
Every power structure is top down, the iron law of oligarchy reigns supreme. You are retarded and probably brown if you think otherwise.

The answer is the expression of it. In Eastern Europe a son of a prosecutor speeds in front of the police and nothing happens to him because of the systemic corruption. In Finland a nepobaby city council employee wastes taxpayer money(supposedly thousands of euros) to record an anti-rape macarena video and then claims that it going viral(out of mockery) means it succeeded, money well spent, is at worst an argument for libertarians to "show *da people* how dumb the government is when handling public money".
This is the reason. Eastern Europeans, due to the genetic tendencies among the elites use power to flex, and that's your corruption, NW euros will instead just focus on funneling resources out of the system but keep quiet about it.

Scandinavians in particular, due to quite extreme conformism(you will only understand the level of it if you're an outsider that lands into one of their countries and lives there for a while) will outright refuse to acknowledge the corruption too. There was a case of CPS in I believe Norway taking away kids of some pair on bogus claims(in Norway it's guilty under proven innocent when dealing with CPS) and putting them temporarily into an adoptive family of Muslims who abused said kids. No CPS employee lost their job or faced consequences for it and you will see self proclaimed Scandinavians who will tell you that this is an accident and the CPS kind of institutions circumventing rule of law and being guided by absolutely retarded standards is normal.

>>18429803
new whiteness map just dropped.

if you never charge anyone with corruption and CIA funded NGOs never a priori define your government institutions as corrupt than corruption doesn't exist

>>18430101
>The CIA made me join a drug cartel.

thanks for the input, Pablo.

>>18430101
Ukraine generally has a corruption rating that's Latinx-tier, tostiloco.

>>18429945
>They are too stupid to notice it.
What are some corruption scandals in Scandinavia then? Or are they so good at it they never get caught?

>>18429803
"Corruption" is when ordinary people can benefit from it because they're related to someone at the hospital who can get them in for treatment quicker. What happens in the west is that it's all obfuscated behind a hundred layers of bureaucracy and legal loopholes so that bribery is hidden and only benefits people at the top which is very civilised and respectable.

>>18429803
Uhh Ukraine is a vibrant Democracy, chud.

i have a theory that 'the more ethnic group look the same (chinks for example)' the more prone they are to being corrupt since they have to work harder to stand out. obviously things like overall iq matter as well thats a very core source of the motivation. western/northern europeans have a variety of alleles like black/blonde/brown/brunette hair colors and blue/green/brown/grey eye colors so individuals dont 'need' to work as hard to 'stand out' with a social class. this is why gook cultures and latin american cultures are so rigid with their social hierarchies and have larger power gaps.

>Why doesn't it exist in the Nordics?
Protestantism.

>>18429803
The CPI measures what people THINK about corruption in their country, not actual corruption. For example Germany scores as one of the least corrupted countries in spite of many scandals (BER, Stuttgart 21, Deutsche Bank, Siemens, VW, FlowTex, Wirecard, Regensburg SPD, etc) because the average German doesn't perceive any corruption in their daily life, like they don't need to bribe cops for safety, they don't get special treatment by the administration by handing over a small envelope to the guy at the counter, they can't get sick leave by bribing the doctor and so on. There's a shitload of corruption in the "least corrupt" countries but it's confined to higher politics and business, it's not an everyday thing like in BiH or Moldova.

>>18430797
Latin Americans come in all sizes and colours especially in countries like Brazil or Colombia, so you're not making a lot of sense. They're the opposite of monochrome chinks.

>>18430101
senoooooor

on the east we aren't progressive and we still have corruption instead of lobbying

>>18430100

Monarchies aren't white.

>>18429803
Doesn't the UK lock up people for political wrongthink at Soviet rates?

>>18431646
/pol/ straight up lies about that shit and spreads sensationalist misinformation.

>>18431696
>USSR in the Brezhnev era prosecuted its domestic enemies under Article 70 (Agitation) & Article 190-1 (Disinformation). 3,234 people were arrested under those articles from 1962-1985. The UK prosecuted 2,341 cases of internet speech in 2022 alone, with 1,816 convictions.
Are these stats inaccurate?

>>18431702
>source is some right wing site spewing misinfo
Like I said, misinformation.

>>18431705
These are the sources from where I found it:
https://imwerden.de/pdf/istochnik_1995_06__ocr.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/criminal-justice-system-statistics-quarterly-december-2022

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>>18431705
>>18431707
here's a screencap of the ussr figures for tldr

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>>18430562
>Or are they so good at it they never get caught?
Like with their nog crime attitude, scandals aren't hidden, they're ignored.
Sweden in particular has attracted international criticism for its (lack of) handling of business bribery, especially when foreign.

Everyone please try to remember this>>18429858
It's a pet peeve of mine when illiterate Americans and other retards get their knowledge of the world from Elder Scrolls. I've even had people try to debate me on this when I've REE'd at them about it, no, Nords are not a real-world people.

>>18432108
Okay, but Nordic people are and people obviously just confuse the two terms. Why are you so worked up about that

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>>18432185
I said it's a pet peeve. It's annoying that so many people are illiterate enough to mix the name of real life peoples with a race from videogames, and in some cases are even confident enough about their wrong information that they try to tell actual Nordic people that they're in fact correct. Arrogantly ignorant.

>>18429803
There's plenty enough corruption in the EU, but it generally isn't the kind where you'd tip a cop for them to drop that speeding ticket or a bureaucrat or city council to get a stamp on some document.

>Rename corruption to lobbying
>No longer have any corruption
It's literally this easy

>>18432364
There is a slight difference between
>this political party will lower taxes for my company if they get elected, I'll better donate to their campaign
and
>I better get some cash in case a cop "pulls me over for speeding"

>>18432455
Yes, and that difference is called "self-delusion".

>>18432455
Complexity?

>>18429803
Corruption exists everywhere, but relatively stable societies with relatively high standards of living for the average people combined with certain cultural values result in little to none of what could be called "low-tier corruption". A classic example is getting out of a speeding ticket by bribing a cop, this is basically non-existent where I live (nordics). There's also a thing that could be called "zero-level corruption", which isn't really corruption in the traditional sense, stuff like a cop or some other official letting you get off with a warning just because they're having a good day, not because you gave him money. This is mostly beneficial for everyone since the idea is that it doesn't really victimize anyone. This obviously doesn't extend to stuff where you seriously endanger or harm other people or property.
However, there does exist a certain degree of SYSTEMIC CORRUPTION, like public officials nudging public spending towards their friend's friends' companies and such. It's what could be called a relatively "high-level corruption" and it's hard to both effectively detect and even harder to prove since there are more and less effective safeguards in place for stuff like this (usually freedom of public information stuff). While this kind of corruption most certainly exists everywhere, it's arguably much worse in the places which also have common low-level corruption; this is something people who claim "there's corruption everywhere (equally)" often get wrong.
tl;dr chart:
Higher-trust societies: Neglible low-level corruption, low-to-mid amount of high-level corruption
Lower-trust societies: Rampant low-level corruption, rampant high-level corruption

>>18432492
>it's arguably much worse in the places which also have common low-level corruption
Sweden is on the OECD's business corruption shitlist in spite of negligible low level corruption, so it's definitely not a hard rule. But yeah I could totally see there being a strong crrelation in general.

>>18430634
I remember when I was working with a pleasant Nigerian fellow that lamented how strict the law often is with common people. For example, he talked about how police in Nigeria would give you a slap on the head and sharp talking to if they caught you drunk driving, but otherwise let you on your way. I think their system is healthier than what we’ve got in the West.

>>18432185
It's not even confusing the two. It's shortening an adjective into a noun. I can guarantee there are people who have never heard of an elder scroll who have used the word Nords.

>>18429803
>Why doesn't it exist in the Nordics?
Danske Bank begs to differ.

>>18432455
Would you say Gacha is a form of gambling? Just like lobbyists, they go through several layers of legalese to obfuscate what’s happening.

Now I know the core essence of this entire argument is that States have a monopoly on violence in exchange for protection, but in modern times a lot of people are noticing the State is demanding a monopoly on violence and giving nothing in return. In fact, the violence is used on the citizenry.

>>18432515
Read the thread. Danske Bank is a good example that in a nation like Denmark, corruption is confined to high finance/politics and inexistent in everyday life.

>>18432505
I don't want to drag this thread into a deeper discussion about it, but I'd say Sweden's case is to a large degree explained by the fact that there's lots of foreigners and nominally "swedish" people with foreign backgrounds (often from africa, middle-east and muslim backgrounds) that participate in serious organized crime.
It's a whole issue there, see for single example "Kurdiska räven" / ”foxkurdish”.
And no, they're not the ONLY people participating in corruption, but having an actual organized crime problem certainly goes a long way to causing problems in that department.

Why are Scandinavians described as high-conformity and high-individualism simultaneously?

>>18432585
They conform to the basic rules required for the state to function so they have more freedom as individuals to pursue their private interests. Taxes are high, but the government guarantees you'll be able to maintain your independence without having to rely on the luck of the draw with your family or charity. Hence why you can go on /int/ and talk to Swedes who are completely mentally ill and dysfunctional, but instead of either living in their mom's basement or becoming hobos, they live in a little state-provided apartment and get a monthly allowance to buy their tendies and anime boobie mousepads.

>>18432585
my asspull theory:
the conformity is "voluntary", more limited to only certain aspects, and people are, for the most part, allowed to be themselves
I remember growing up and starting to realize *why* certain social rules exist and see the wisdom in following them. Not following them doesn't necessarily socially destroy you, but other will see you as immature or at best case eccentric
I'd argue that in high-conformity, low-individualism societies you're not allowed as much leeway to grow up and actively choose to play by the rules and the social pressure makes people fit themselves into the mold not-as-voluntarily

>>18432455
Yeah One only afects two individuals , you and the cop. Possible a couple more of you bribe and Crash
While the other afects the live of a few thousand, local Level, or hundreds of millions, EU level

>>18432514
It's still just incorrect. Saying "Nordics" would be marginally better, I guess, but it usually refers to the countries, not the people.

>>18429858
>>18432108
Sorry we'll call you Nordicks from now on. Btw, Nord is just internet shorthand or slang for Nordic. No one thinks you are the race from Elder Scrolls.

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>>18432514
Nordic is a noun too.