>>18512723
It was the SS that carried out the Holocaust, so it’s possible Göring was genuinely shocked by it.

>>18512723
>>18512802
is it possible The Germans never carried out any mass murder, intentional or not, but that the casualties in camps were due to factors beyond their control such as famine, collateral, and supply shortage?

>>18512884
>is it possible The Germans never carried out any mass murder, intentional or not, but that the casualties in camps were due to factors beyond their control
Yes! It is possible. It's also possible your mom got railed by 20 negroes last Saturday.

>>18512802
iirc thats what Göring said at the trial, himmler was the one obsessed with the race shit he just wanted nice things for his estate

File: 1749686986482647.jpg (89.9 KB)

>>18513000
You make him sound like a total faggor, doesn't help that he was shorter than Himmler too.

>>18512884
no, that was Soviet Union when axis invasion and bombing broke supply line to correctional labour camps, nazis were murdering Jews in death camps based on racists theories that the inferior races don't deserve to live

>>18513086
>nazis were murdering Jews in death camps based on racists theories that the inferior races don't deserve to live
can you prove this and that it wasnt collateral and supply trouble?

>>18512723
>>18512802
I believe he was not aware, complicit, or responsible for the mass murder of Jews in the extermination camps.

>>18513077
Where is Görings hand???

>>18512723
The top brass didn't bother themselves with details of the genocide.
Nevertheless, Hitler ordered it and all Nazis - AND Wehrmacht generals - fully embraced it. They are fully responsible whether they knew about the dirty "details" or not.

>>18512723
He was lying. Goring literally helped organize the Wannsee Conference

>>18512884
>is it possible The Germans never carried out any mass murder, intentional or not,
No it isn't because the Einsatzgruppen produced explicit reports about making entire regions judenfrei. So they not only had murderous death squads, they even had mass murder bureaucracy. (Which is a very German thing, I guess)
>but that the casualties in camps were due to factors beyond their control such as famine, collateral, and supply shortage
Famine was definitely one mass murder weapon that the Axis used to kill people, but even then, if you corral people into concentration camps and they start dying like flies, it's on you, no matter the circumstances. International law was always clear on this, before and after WW2. So, irrelevant. It's still genocide.

>>18512884
>famine, supply shortage and collateral doesn't occur to anyone else in Nazi territory, including other prisoners
?

>>18512723
I think it's very possible for Göring to know about the holocaust and the final solution while not being directly familiar to just how bad it truly got. We're really desensitized to them now, but those photos are horrible. And if he wasn't actively monitoring it, he may not have grasped the reality of the situation. This is completely in line with that. And iirc the Lufftwaffe was pretty keyed out of the whole thing relatively speaking.

>>18513237
That said it could also be argued that Göring was upet because he suddenly realized how fucked he was. Though I think this is wrong.

>>18512723
What concentration camps? The ones the godless soviets built after invading christian land? Next you'll say the gas chambers were German too, or something.

You really think someone would do that? Commit a crime and then say they didn't do it?

>>18513294
Indeed, no Christian would ever harm a Jew.

>>18513237
If I had to dare a guess, he knew about the grand scale of atrocities but kept a personal distance on the dirty stuff, never really got a sense of him as a fanatic racial theorist, more of an opportunistic, hedonistic power player who desired military triumphs and revenge for WWI.

I wouldn’t believe for one second if he said that he didn’t know about the camps, but I can fully imagine that it was the first time he had to actually see the results with his own eyes. It’s easy to look at statistics and orders about some extremely vile things and still just stay emotionally cold about them, but actually seeing it is an entirely different thing altogether. Didn’t even Himmler get nauseated when he was present at executions once, not enough to change his view on doing them, but enough that he didn’t want to see anything live anymore?

>>18513369
>Didn’t even Himmler get nauseated when he was present at executions once, not enough to change his view on doing them, but enough that he didn’t want to see anything live anymore?
iirc himmler came up with the gas chamber as a more humane form of execution after watching a shooting execution
I mean if youre Göring wtf were you even supposed to do? i imagine he insulated himself from it because there was nothing he could do about it even if he wanted to, göring never struck me as the psychotic race fanatic that hitler and himmler were, just an opportunist out to settle WWI scores
Really i dont think he shouldve been executed but i understand why he was (and him being based and cucking the allies out of the satisfaction)
He did nothing that so many frontrunning commanders/politicians havent done throughout history, and even through the war on both sides

>>18512891
>erm bbc
??????
>>18513213
>explicit reports
?????????????
Where do they list six to 11 million exactly?
>judenfrei
where's the murder order?
Is clearing partisans some kind of genocide?
how?
Is clearing out Hamas also a genocide?
What about clearing out Russians from Ukraine, also a genocide?
Are the attacks on Whites also a genocide?
>death squads
source?
>mass murder
Where do the Germans have explicit orders stating "we are mass murdering people who have nothing to do with the war"????
>famine was a weapon
If the Germans couldnt feed themselves, then this is false, famine was NOT a weapon.
The famines in Eastern Europe were caused by the Soviet Scorched earth policy.
>corral
You mean like literally every country does today to its criminals?
>international law
can we see the government that presides over the entire planet that has the authority to declare a law international?
International law, according to the Geneva convention, exhonerates Germany btw, they had to make special post-war provisions specifically to punish Germany because Germany was actually by the books and didnt actually commit any war crimes that werent also present on the opposing sides in their partisan cleanup.

Why do you not know this?

>>18513547
>iirc himmler came up with the gas chamber
There is no hard evidence that has ever been produced ever of gas being used as a form of mass execution.
If you can provide such hard evidence then please come claim your nobel prize.

>>18513568
>reports
Also known as Ereignismeldungen. How the fuck do you not know this? And the Einsatzgruppen only killed a part of the Jewish (and other) victims in the war. The famous "6 million" were ALL Jewish victims from shootings, gassings, Vernichtung durch Arbeit, famine, etc.
>where's the murder order?
Keep pretending you don't know about Wannsee.
>Is clearing partisans some kind of genocide?
>how?
If your anti-partisan strategy involves destroying an ethnic, national or racial group, as a human group, in whole or in part, then yes, it is a genocide.
>Is clearing out Hamas also a genocide?
If clearing out Hamas involves the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the Gaza strip, then yes, it is a genocide.
>What about clearing out Russians from Ukraine, also a genocide?
Nobody is doing that. For fuck's sake the current President of Ukraine speaks Russian as a first language.
>Are the attacks on Whites also a genocide?
ok I'll stop reading here, go back to /pol/

>>18513568
You type like a child. You have an extremely limited vocabulary.

>2026
>holocaust deniers still think gas was used for 100% of all the deaths

>>18513192
So why couldn’t they prove Goring was knowledgeable or responsible?

>>18512723
Well aside from the fact that it makes sense for him to lie to avoid culpability for the crimes of the Nazis? Most people hadn’t ever seen something as stunning in its barbarism as the concentration camps. In context, soldiers who still had officers who survived the trenches of the First World War, the Russian revolution, and of course both European fronts for even the grunts found Nazi brutality disturbing. Ole Hermann spent part of the First World War in a garrison town and then he flew a plane for the rest. He very well might never have seen something like the death camps. Out of sight, out of mind. Having it rubbed in your face that you helped murder millions of innocent people might have been jarring for the guy.

>>18512723
According to neal stephenson’s telling göring was doped up faggot or something like that

>>18514491
Who thinks this? Quote them. No one said this.
The claim was that there is zero hard evidence gas was used to kill even 1% of the mythical holocausted.

Why must you default to rhetorical tricks?
Can’t prove gas was ever used even once?
The most notorious central claim of the Holocaust turns out to be false. Curious!

>>18514488
>dodge dodge dodge do not legitimize holocaust denial by engaging with it in good faith or at all

This an excerpt from Israel’s Hasbara handbook on handling Holocaust skepticism.
>>18513581
I don’t know that because it’s pure fiction.
Nowhere in any Einsatzgruppen report is the number six million given.
Everything we have from the partisan clearing adds up to about 270,000.
This has been corroborated by independent sources btw.
>Wannsee
There is no murder order here.
Please, post the written order where it declares “kill innocent jews”. Go on, do what no historian has ever done and claim your prize for posting this ground breaking new evidence.
>destroying an ethnic group
What ethnic group was destroyed?
Which ethnic group went extinct?
None of them.

Who was genocided?
there were Jews all over the world, Poles too, Slavs, all of them far beyond the reach of the Germans, the Germans selectively killed active combatants and those supporting them.
That isn’t a genocide it’s war.
Why lie?
>/pol/ boogeyman
Literally never used that board lmao.

Is /pol/ a board which agrees with me the holocaust is a work of fiction?
Imagine that, people agree the Holocaust is a work of fiction.

>>18515793
>Who thinks this?
Many, many Holocaust deniers. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist.
>Can’t prove gas was ever used even once?
Kek

>>18513213
>he fell for the Einsatzgruppen meme.
Let me guess they also got murdered by carbon monoxide from diesel engine fumes. kek

>>18515979
>no I have no evidence of my claims
You should lead with that next time.

>>18514491
I was taught so in 1976. now either ANNOUNCE that this was not so, at the save volume all the holocaust preaching uses, or fuck off. historians quietly revising numbers and narratives does not count.

>>18512723
>insisting that they must be forgeries/faked
he was correct

>>18513213
>Einsatzgruppen produced explicit reports about making entire regions judenfrei.
You know it could just be expulsion?
The National Socialists tried to get the Jews to Israel/Palestine so they wouldn't bother them.

>>18512723
"I was merely the King of Planes. I knew nothing of landly affairs. What's a train? Some kind of dirt plane?"

>>18516536
Yeah you had a shitty retarded American education, no surprise.
>>18516366
Cry. Your attempts at ragebait are pathetic.

>>18516671
Okay, where are the jews that were deported to British (allied) controlled Palestine in WW2?

>>18516874
>/his/torian
>Doesn't know about the Haavara Agreement
Also pre-ww2.

>>18516992
The judenfrei command was given during WW2, after the Haavara agreement. I'm asking about THOSE jews specifically, you dumb nigger.

>>18512723
Thr holocaust didn't happen. Hitler was a jewish agent who sent the jews to luxurious resorts while normal Germans starved. Only the allies tried to destroy the jewish menace once and for all by bombing supply lines to those camps.

>>18517158
German civilians didn't starve until very late in the war actually

Two things can be true at once:
1. It was German policy to exterminate the Jews, and they implemented it on a large scale.
2. Death camps with gas chambers were a fucking fairy tale invented by the Soviets.