How could we be miserable about something we don't even do?

>>7905936
Yeah . I just play video games all day

all boards are shit for their main purpose because fags who fail at enjoying the main board function will haunt it and shit it up because other people not failing is seen as an insult to their ego

Why do we need to turn everything we do into a public spectacle?
If you liked drawing, you'd do it even without the prospect of an audience.

>>7905935
I enjoy drawing. But I also don't post here much because fo all the doomposting and general bullshit.

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It's fun. Misery only comes from combining your ego with your work.

>>7905973
based
>>7905935
You are part of the problem you pretend to decry

>>7905935
You can't determine if drawing is fun or not from some random message board on the internet. Go get your own evidence.

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>>7905935
Ignore the board. Just look at the artists you like and reflect on what inspired you to draw in the first place and let that motivate you. Here, I'll help you get started.

>>7905935
Drawing is very hard, so it just becomes something you constantly fail at, if it goes well, for a decade.

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You can just draw memes you like. :)

>most active thread is a software war between nodraws
it's best you just don't look at this board.

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>>7906002
anon it's at the bottom of the top 8 posts/min and it's just two autists going "nuh uh" at eachother
this dogshit nodraw meta thread on the other hand

>>7906007
this board also has severe autists that read every word to its literal meaning, so it's extra best you just don't look at this board.

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>>7905935
Anon, just doodle and try to get better each day. This board is filled with either people have given up and get off to the chance of making someone give up as well, or actual artists that try and draw everyday.

I enjoy drawing even though I suck imo.
Doodled picrel and screwed up based on the ref pic. Perspectives and forms all messed up. Did I have fun though? yes. If u got the same keep drawing, rooting 4 u.

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>>7905935
Yea, I fucking hate drawing.
The worst thing that ever happened to me was finding out that drawing is a "skill" and that I MIGHT have been able to learn how to do it.

If I was lied to and told it was a talent, I would've never done it. It would've solved 100% of all of my problems. My quality of life would've improved 10x. Probably be married and have kids by now.

Now, I just draw because I hate myself.

>>7905973
Sick

>>7905935
survivorship bias
people who have fun drawing, draw
people who don't, post

>>7905940
this is sad but true

I only come here to vent inbetween my drawing, so I spew negativity or troll and then go back to drawing.

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>>7905940
This is true for any educational pursuit.

When I had studied Japanese for 2 years, and fallen for the common memes, I saw Heisig being shilled in a Reddit thread. Naturally, I went into the thread and gave my recommendations and said to avoid Heisig as that's a trap.

You wouldn't believe the amount vitriol I received from these Redditors. They were clearly only months into studying Japanese and didn't really know what they were talking about yet they had the gall to insult my intelligence and wanted me to prove that I could speak Japanese fluently or some shit.

From that day forward, I realized that in order to learn something, using things like Reddit and 4chan are the worst possible ways to do it. The only reason I didn't improve in drawing for years was precisely because I tried using /ic/ to learn how to draw (after Reddit just ignored my drawings). If I just did what I did with Japanese instead, I'd be far ahead where I am now instead of being stuck in /beg/ for years.

>>7905935
oh look a nodraw having a melty,''shocking''

>>7905935
Llearnin to do it better and pushing your limits is miserable, but it pays off

I mean, it takes some struggle to get to the point where you can create things that not only impress others but yourself. Until you get to that point it's not really fun. To top it off, unless your bar for excellence and expectations for yourself are always increasing as your skill does. This is the perfect cocktail for being caught in a loop of misery. You need to balance the grind with fun. It's why you hear so many master artists talk about how it took them decades to learn to make art like a child. Once you've developed your skills, it becomes harder to just let go and play with the things you've learned. When you're playing, that's when you're most creative. It isn't even pseduobabble, it's backed up by studies that show the flow state is somewhere in between play and focus. That flow state is where the magic happens. When you make art you look back at and go what the fuck? How did I even do this? That's what can take decades to learn to tap into at will

>>7905935
it was fun, when I was 12

>>7906020
composition fail

>>7905935
>most of you
You mean anyone who doesn't accompany their post with their own art, right? If you ignore any post that fits that criteria this board automatically becomes 1000% better. I realize me saying this is ironic but I'm not showing any of you bastards my awesome art. You're unworthy.

>>7906031
Anything is a skill

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A certain level of misery is to be expected in any craft that one wishes to learn I think, when you run into the limits of your current skill level and realise how far you still are from your goals. The trick is to understand that it's part of the process of improving, and if you've come this far you can go furhter still. This place, or internet in general, just has the unfortunate effect of amplifying the frustration people feel about their inadequacies. The solution is unironically touch grass.

>>7905935
They hate drawing for some reason

>>7906031
You know what? Yeah, took the words right out of my mouth. I pretend I still try and get better because I'm clinging on to that shred of hope, but in reality it's out of sunk cost fallacy. There are heights some people will just never reach but they still insist on looking up and fantasizing about the view they *could* have if they did.

>>7905935
how many people here are thirdties going all in on drawing as their ticket out of poverty? These people have ruined digital art and /ic/ while honest americans like us can only draw for the love of it because it will never be sustainable.

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>>7907533
im not even a thirdie but this is a shit take
if you can make art that actually means something, no third worlder will be ableto compete with you
if all you can do is technically nice drawings, then yea, youre replaceable

>>7907188
They hate drawing because they go on /ic/ and get influenced by nodraws' crabbing.

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>>7906020

90% of it is not fun.
I only find 2 things fun about drawing
5% is when things start coming together
And the other 5% is when it's complete.

The rest is misery. Drawing is only fun when you don't know how terrible you are

>>7905935
Hi anon. I’m a pretty experienced artist and I’ll let you in on a little secret. Most advice from fellow artists is just hot trash. They don’t know what they’re doing and even if they did they would never tell you how to make it. You’re honestly better off making your own map and following your intuition than listening to ‘art advice’ gurus. Don’t be conventional or adhere to group wisdom. There are some good artists here, however the majority think that just because they’re a group struggling together it means they’re closer to ‘cracking the code’ and reaching that next pivotal breakthrough while they neglect their artists spirit. When it comes to making art from the soul, the only art that matters, in my opinion? you either have it or you don’t.

Never let anyone or any teaching dampen your artistic spirit. Anything that does is wrong. Follow your heart always. Happy doodling :)

I can't stop thinking about naked women but it's really not what i want to draw all the time because i find them too easy to do at this point

it's an abstract form of misery

>>7911339
Nice

>>7905935
people here would be miserable even in heaven.

>>7911364
I'm so glad I'm retarded

>>7905935
>pushed everyone to leave
>massive assholes to anyone who stayed
Its a pretty pathetic cycle when you thing about it.

>>7905935
It is one of the hardest skills you could possibly choose to learn.
Granted ymmv. Some people are naturally talented at it and it’s fun and easy for them and everything’s great. The demographics on this board are skewed towards people who started learning in adulthood, which means they probably have no special talent for it (otherwise they would have done it more as kids), which means the people on this board will have a harder time than average.
But even saying all that. Some skills are just objectively harder than others, imo. Few things consistently produce so much pain and frustration for so many people as drawing. In other skills you can grind it out and do ok even without talent. But in drawing, if you’re not born with a lot of innate talent, you are TURBO fucked and you’re going to suffer a lot just to get to a passable level.

>>7905935
ppl here are obsessed with improvement and technical perfection

>>7912109
>It is one of the hardest skills you could possibly choose to learn.
Sometimes posts like these really lower my stress response, hearing it from someone else helps. Yes it's hard as hell.

I'm burned out. Just looking at my tablet makes me nauseous, but I don't have anything else because I threw it all away to draw. No vidya, no anime, no porn, no doomscrolling. No politics. I'm already maxxed out on philosophy so there's nothing interesting to read online. The only thing I haven't done yet is start a family but that's not happening.

>>7905935

Either be content with drawing as a doodling hobby you do for funsies, or go into drawing because you are cursed/blessed with the insatiable need to do it.

>>7905935
It's not fun, I've been drawing wolves for like a week because I wanted to include it in a picture I'm making and Idk shit about drawing wolves. I want to draw people again so bad but my adhd riddle brain says I have to complete this before anything. Fucking wolf in perspective jumping and snarling, it's all I think about besides how miserable my life is.

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>>7905935
Well the people who ARE having fun usually aren't wasting the day away on /ic/ and are, in fact, drawing.

>>7905935
>most of you are absolutely miserable
selection bias, you are on 4chan

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>>7905935
It's all about the Discovery. Whatever appears under my pen is seldom planned beyond a vague idea and often not much more than a moments thought. Something interesting congeals and I give thought of what it could be in my stories , a story pivots upon the randomized expression changing plot history and canon. Being privileged to be the very first person to find out What Happened Next. A story worth telling needs to be anchored in paper, even if you are its ony fan.

https://youtu.be/s8d8CmhEe-A?si=_-RBieMD4e8ElZMi

https://youtu.be/UoTBkDRWCSw?si=vhywXBIZIFnGBgGz

https://youtu.be/D2gEr0dIf1k?si=C8cEgY8I1VkY_qdR

>>7905935
Would a videogame be fun if it didn't provide a challenge whatsoever?
Drawing is a very long game, and many people are still facing years in the first forest, leveling up on slimes and rats.

>>7913190
If drawing was a game, it would be a game with a vertical learning curve, in which you never win

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>>7905935
People here are especially miserable and bitter towards artists that are slightly above average that posts here too like fuckin chill. Not everyone ties their self worth to their art like that

>>7905935
I love drawing, but I hate my life. Drawing and porn are the only things I have which make it bearable

>>7905935
>I just wanted to learn how to draw because it seemed like fun
this is such an alien concept to me
you gotta be at least 12, right?
>most of you are absolutely miserable about it
ok, you gotta be at least 16, maybe older
how did you go through, I don't know, 10 years of school without feeling the curiosity to just move the pencil you have in your hand to the border of your notebook and just doodle shit while you drudge through hours and hours of classes? did you just wake up, now, and decided to check fucking 4chan for advice on how to draw?

>>7913388
Most people can't draw for shit anon. They never had reasons to doodle in class because they didn't know how to draw anything and had no interest in art.

>>7905935
My advice is to only go to /ic/ to pirate learning material and ignore every opinion posted on /ic/

>>7905940
obviously OP knows that, as he is one of those people haunting the board.

>>7906760
Heisig unironically was a massive breakthrough for me. I had so much trouble with kanji for like 5 years before some random German guy who lived in Japan recommended it, and afterwards I fell in love with kanji and can read so many more than before. I wish I had found it earlier. Definitely not perfect and probably a newer version of the same general concepts would be better, but I really can't argue with results.

I think people learn differently and something that worked great for me might work terribly for you, and vice versa. The trick to improving at anything is being open to working at it, finding what you enjoy and what works for you, and then being consistent at practicing with a growth mindset over a long period of time.

But I agree a lot of strong opinions come from people with zero experience. Some people here speak with so much authority in their tone, and then when you finally see a drawing they did and it's the worst fucking stick figure ms paint shit you've ever seen.

how do I draw interesting things without copying references?

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>>7912109
>>7912999
I disagree about it being one of the hardest.
It's simply the least straight-forward.
Drawing in itself isn't really hard to learn beyond the initial hurdle of getting good at copying. Once you're past that, everything becomes much easier. Perspective, lighting, color theory, etc.
These aren't hard in itself. They're actually really straight-forward. But combining them all together and trying to do them all at the same time is almost impossible unless you've internalized them.
If that's what you're referring to as "hard" then sure. But I personally see "hard" skills as things that are difficult to understand (physics/math) rather than something that requires a lot of rote repetition of relatively simple concepts.

>>7913530
You're probably talking about Abroad in Japan, and he's the reason I got Heisig. He said it was basically like a "Bible" for Japanese, which was complete bullshit.

The problem with Heisig is that you don't actually learn the Kanji correctly. You just make up stories for like 2500 Kanji that you end up forgetting in 3 months. When I started to actually learn them correctly, I realized all I did was waste my time.

If you want to learn the Kanji, I recommend using the Kodansha Anki Deck which shows you the stroke order of the Kanji. Even today, while I don't remember almost any of the Kanji, I still instinctively know the correct stroke order for any Kanji I look at.

But if you're just starting out:
>Japanese from Zero series on YouTube
>CureDolly on YT (once in a while, after you finish JFZ)
>A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar (Seiichi Makino)
>2000 Most Common Vocabulary in Anki
>Kodansha Anki Deck (if you want to learn to read Japanese)

But if it's just for Anime subtitles, skip Kanji completely and just focus on vocabulary and grammar. That's what I should've done and would've been done with grinding studies after like 1-2 years instead of spending 3+ years learning everything and the Kanji.

>>7913742
My Creativity Grind

https://youtu.be/1OSWR7xiQLk?si=D5lAVZwWoClwMZU8

Repeat until you get something that you want draw again.

>>7913796
I find drawing more difficult to understand than any other skill. That said, I am still stuck on that initial hurdle, at least assuming that by copying you mean drawing from life. I can accurately copy a drawing given enogh time, but when drawing from life I end up spending ages trying to figure out how the subject could possibly be represented using lines, and then end up with some sort of indecipherable mess that resembles nothing.

>>7905935
99% of people here don't like drawing, don't like manga, don't like art, don't like anything, they are just addicted to porn so they want to make porn for a living or they are here to advertise the porn they're selling
it was like this long before slop hit the fan

The 2010's were a hopeful era where people here thought they could be the next sakimichan. Artists were making money everywhere, and pursuing art seemed like a legitimate pathway.

The mid-2020's was a harsh wakeup call. AI-driven sloppening that devalued artistic laabor, slumping economy, rampant inflation, unprecedented government corruption mixed with crypto scams, has left the market destitute. Now most people here have already lost hope that they'll ever make anything with their art, so all that's left is to crab and spread misery.

>>7914200
>people here thought they could be the next sakimichan
majority of the board fucking hated sakimichan in the 2010s you fucking nigger

>>7914225
Yes retard, because miserable crabs like you desperately wished they could make almost $200k a year drawing at the level she did.

>>7907244
>>7906031

It's good to see I'm with my people. I love art, I gave it everything, all my time and let my life deteriorate in front of me. Arts the best! She wanted Everything from me and nowI'm sad I chose to live an actual life instead of be with her forever. There's no room for love no room for friends just art, art ,art all day.I have to stop.But I love her so...

>>7914184
I love drawing, love manga and art. I just have depression and it's really hard for me to draw all day everyday. I'm still getting better tho, just at my own pace.

>>7914200
I never had any hope to make money with art to begin with. I just like art and drawing is fun.

>>7905935
It is fun. These losers are just retarded.

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>>7905935
Crabs never draw, they only complain.

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I'm just mad that I'll never make a living as an animator/artist. I'm tired of pretending I don't care about fame. I see channels like Glitch and Speedoru rake in cash and it breaks me. I'm 30 and work in a dead end retail job. My animations are the only reason I haven't roped yet.

>>7905935
When i draw something and it doesn't get replies I decided that it's not worth it

>>7915023
That just means you have to try harder. Places where people post their drawings are like a Catwalk. Most people will get ignored unless they stick out

>>7914242
Yeah so crabbing is always evidence of whatever shitfuck you have in your head at the time, it was hopeful crabbing back then, and it’s totally not just a constant.

>>7915023
>crabbing yourself
Oof, you gotta fix your mentality

>>7915210
This schizo would rather ramble about nonsense than admit he was wrong and is a miserable crab.