File: copies.png (1.4 MB)
So I've been copying anime Settei for a while now, but I don't feel like I've learned anything. It just seems like I'm building my observation skills, and that's it. I'm not learning what makes anime look like anime.
I know there are some esoteric tips like paying attention to directional changes. Are there any other tips that would make this make more sense?
Showing all 65 replies.
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>>7952162
You can divide art styles into form-dominant and shape-dominant kinds. Most anime is squarely in the latter camp. As much as construction, form, and perspective matter - and they do - you should also focus on shapes and their interrelationships. Look at the shapes of the eyes for example. In the top drawing you drew ovals, but in the ref on the left notice how Sakura’s eyes taper sharply. It’s a much more subtly complex shape. Her nose you drew slightly too low, and the distance between the eyes is a bit much. In the middle picture you made the opposite error. The eyes are too close in that one.
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>>7952162
You're doing great so far, but here's what can help you improve:
>do blind contours
>trace your reference, then flip the traced drawing upside down, and copy it on another piece of paper
>take your reference and break it down into shapes and forms, then observe your reference before hiding it, then draw it from memory before taking it out and drawing while looking at it
>make a master copy
Draw lots of actual Japanese people. Read a shit ton of manga. Copy, copy, and copy relentlessly.
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>>7952162
building ovservation skills is putting you way ahead of others so just start doing loomis and you'll unlock the anime style naturally by stylizing loomis now that you've got anime drawings in your muscle memory.
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File: 7952162.mp4 (3.8 MB)
>>7952162
Let's not say "I want to learn anime style." Say instead "I want to learn CLAMP's style."
Learning a style means internalizing someone's processes, choices, and idiosyncrasies. Those things and that knowledge will never be accessible to you 100%, so you have to fill in the gaps. You have to bring something to the table. Whatever that is needs to be solid.
It would be very difficult to learn a style just by rote copying. You'd have to memorize the totality of their work and be able to recall it verbatim, which is near impossible for anyone who is not a savant. I can assure you, most animators are not savants. But their job is to replicate styles and designs. They do not rote copy. What they have is a rote process.
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>>7952162
You need to think of some kind of challenge to take what you're learning and give it a twist. For example you can copy a front face reference and then try to draw that character in the 3/4 view. That tests if you understand how to actually draw the character and if you're learning how facial features work in anime style.
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>>7952671
The way you lined the eyes as one silhouette is mindblowing. I never thought of that. I'll try and copy the head shape and eye socket you use also. Thanks for posting. Do you have any other speed drawings like this?
>>7952408
I've also heard that anime faces have gesture to their lines like this guy figures out.
>>7952700
I'll look him up.
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>>7952683
i'm telling niggas on here that copying is the most foundational skill you can have, because that is how you literally learn everything there is in the world. language, music, crafts. you dont invent shit right out of the bat, you learn the rules by copying someone else and then master those rules in order to transcend them eventually. you cant come up with something original if you dont know what is unoriginal, what has been done before. you wanna be a writer? read a lot of books and yes even copy the texts in order to learn from them and memorize them a lot easier.
copy copy copy.
>>7952162
do more than just mugshots. copy whole panels, pages, anime stills and do it by the thousands. after the copy try to do it form memory, setting the foundation of that exercise. you will remember it even months later, maybe not a 100% accurate, but clearer than anyone that hasnt studied it. learn the material, execute the material. keep on keeping on.
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>>7952719
>you wanna be a writer? read a lot of books and yes even copy the texts in order to learn from them and memorize them a lot easier.
Well I don't know about that last part. I try to write too, and simply copying (typing) the author's words again doesn't teach me anything nearly as much as simply reading it. Otherwise yes, copying is the way to go. With writing I think it's more like, copying the structure of their prose or plot. And then mix it up with others that you like to create your own thing.
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>>7952722
>>7952722
>and simply copying (typing) the author's words again doesn't teach me anything nearly as much as simply reading it.
depends. you evidently memorize texts easier by writing it down instead of just reading and repeating. its also more engaging, enhancing the learning effect further. the analysis as you say is slightly different, but thats literary style and rules which goes a little deeper into study.
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>>7952719
Absolutely this. I’ve drawn for 20 years and wish my younger self copied and did master studies instead of trying to reinvent the wheel like a fucking retard. Art is not a logic game like programming; a huge chunk of what artists know isn’t discursive, teachable knowledge but shit that they have internalized, consciously and unconsciously.
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>>7952737
the most interesting part of a writer or artist process happens inside their brain, the written page and the drawing is a proyection of that process
just sticking to copying is mixing cause and effect, because the cause is unseen, thinking that the shadows on the wall are the thing that proyects them
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>>7952742
It’s this gay platonic idea that prevented me >>7952739 from taking the copy pill for so many years
>the most interesting part of a writer or artist process happens inside their brain
We are actually unable to comprehend these processes from the inside. When you teach your “mental process” to people there’s a lot of approximation involved, and so there’s no guarantee that it comports to what you really do. “Just sticking to copying” obviously isn’t advisable either, but yet I don’t think it’s analogous to the shadows on the wall metaphor; it’s more like internalizing a musical mode or scale by singing songs that pertain to it.
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>>7952750
the analogy shouldn't prevent you from copying stuff, just being aware that it explains why successful copies do not always translate to original work
I copy a lot to learn about subjects (and just for fun) too
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>>7952671
I don't understand the hype for this post. He provided some advice that sounds good but isn't specifically actionable and is ultimately vague. Then he attached a video of himself copying the image on the left.
Yes, a person who has been drawing for years longer than you is going to be able to copy an image better than you are able to. That doesn't automatically mean the text in the post itself has any substance, in fact the text doesn't have any substance, the closest thing you can say about it is that it hints at a "rote process" and then says "you can't know the rote process, so figure it out yourself."
In other words, "just practice for years and you also will be able to copy more accurately." But because he has been posting here for years, it's treated as more profound than it actually is? What is this, Emperor's Clothes syndrome or something else?
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>>7952671
if you're still there, can you explain where her nose bridge would be if it was drawn? is it directly right next to the eye nearly touching it, or would it be slightly more to the right? same with the more front facing tomoyo on the bottom left, i understand the nose tip (within my current knowledge) but i don't know where the bridge would be at all
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>>7952162
Could you actually copy properly?
Surely you can compare the reference and your drawings?
Do you see any difference?
Could you fix it?
There’s a reason kids start drawing simpler shapes, like irl wooden blocks, balls, cylinders.
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>>7952705
>I'll try and copy the head shape and eye socket you use also
Forget copying that stuff for a moment and think about what was done in the earliest phase of the sketch, and the purpose of those lines. First was a circle and a pair of straight lines that determined the bounds of the head (i.e. how tall and wide it should be) without copying the exact shape of the head. It's just proportions and orientation at this point.
Then there was an eye line that wrapped around the head as if it was a square. The part of the line that is on the front side of the head was then divided into 4 parts, and the part on the side of the head was divided into 2. Those divisions quickly set where the eyes and the ears should be, in the correct relationship for that particular angle/orientation of the head.
Proportions, orientation, plotting/placement. These are what you should think about before specifics like head shape or "eye sockets." You don't need to construct the way I do. You can stay with the ball and wedge if you'd like (although your sphere does not show the correct orientation.)
Ever seen or read All You Need is Kill/Edge of Tomorrow? There is a message in it for artists - trying to copy and remember everything will only get you so far. At some point you have to learn the core skills.
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>>7953899
Different anon here. I understand the two lines setup orientation/tilt of head while bounding the sides. The eyeline and the sideline are able to setup the perspective and placement of features. What purpose does the initial circle have? Does it bound the volume of the head? I'm curious about the specifics of head shape and the eye sockets since I feel like I understand the rest..
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>>7952773
You sound like an illiterate retard. He says it directly: fill in the “gaps” and don’t expect yourself to be able to replicate a style 1:1. Most people aren’t savants, so it’s better to establish a method of understanding rather than relying on memorization. The video literally depicts that; he’s loosely “copying” the pose and expression, but he’s still making stylistic choices that clearly differentiates his study. The proportions are slightly different and what he chooses to accentuate. This is what he was referring to as bringing something new.
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>>7953938
The initial circle is primarily for scale. A moderately well-drawn circle will be as wide as it is tall, which gives you a sort of reference point to work from.
The center of the circle also serves as the connection between the neck and the head. The head swivels on that point. In reality, it's a little lower and closer to the rear of the head, but in animation the center point is used to simplify things.
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>>7954344
That makes sense, actually missed the center dot in the beginning. I'd be interested if there's an animation centric resource on this. Most animation books I see go through construction and standard stuff like walks/turns/etc. but not further into the technical like using projection to solve problems. Then the stuff that teaches projection and perspective are focused on architecture/mechs/etc leaving out character design. It feels like I need to put it all together like a puzzle.
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>>7952162
Yes, learn to draw realistic faces. Then you can judge different anime styles from the lense of having some anatomical knowledge, and you'll understand easily why the eyes or the eyebrows are placed on a given plane depending on perspective. You need this to understand precise proportions of volumes as they rotate, thinking in shapes without mastering volumes first is like blinding yourself to the logic of proportions.
>The way you lined the eyes as one silhouette is mindblowing. I never thought of that. I'll try and copy the head shape and eye socket you use also.
You shouldn't. That person knows how irl heads are constructed and is able to extrapolate that knowledge to stylized proportions like CLAMP style. My point us that you should learn to draw real life objects first starting with the most basic ones, and his point is that you shouldn't mindlessly trace others but learn how to build an object from any angle, it doesn't matter if it doesn't look exactly the same at first, because you're not ready to learn the immense amount of details a face has, so you have to start by figuring out the basic, big volumes before you try to learn the details. Learn to construct the face by learning to draw spheres, cyllinders, then masks, then faces, and draw them from different angles, you don't learn the proportions in space if you only learn the proportions from one single perspective.