i was with you until you said solar.

Those things would be lost by the thousands for every competent soldier they killed (see - every piece of clone wars related media), and are only good for keeping down illiterate civilians armed with barely functional small arms.

So yeah, solid occupation force in a shithole that you don't care about in the slightest, hot garbage in a real war.

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>>65195239
Which Star Wars droid would make a good frontline unit in a real war according to you?

>>65195224
>build price around 15k
So this thing is going to be as shitty as a commercial lawn mower? You know they have to hire a garage of Mexicans to keep them up and running. You know what, yeah, this is starting to sound like some USMC shit.

>>65195241
BX (bottom left) is roughly equivalent in capability to a human soldier and is thus probably alright, although cost becomes a serious question with those given how rare and bespoke they are.

Droideka (bottom left) functionally acts like a machine gun equipped tankette, and is probably solid in conjunction with more competent forces. It is still going to die a lot because man portable heavy weapons will still do horrible things to it, but it should create enough problems that it justifies itself even if it can't do more than suppress enemy positions and draw fire.

B1 and B2 both have the same issue - they are fine at standing around in the open, but that is suicidal in a real war. A droid needs to intelligently move from cover to cover and engage in small unit tactics like human soldiers do, or it is going to get slaughtered just like human soldiers who fail to properly use small unit tactics get slaughtered. The only way around this is to be durable enough and dangerous enough that it gains fire superiority in a small arms exchange regardless of how poor its tactics are, but B1s fail that miserably and B2s are pretty so-so at the best of times given how individual clones routinely gun them down.

>>65195277
>Droideka (bottom left)
Derp, Drodeka is bottom right. I blame Australia being upside down. B1 is top left and B2 is top right, for those of you who live in a box and have never seen Star Wars episodes 1-3.

>>65195224
>Roger Roger
I thought machines were supposed to be efficient

>>65195239
stormtroopers lost to ewoks, droids beat the gungans

>>65195300
>complacent garrison force loses to surprise attack by local insurgents supported by foreign special forces
>droids bullied primitives in an open field fight where neither side is engaging in sophisticated tactics, but the droids have tanks and the gungans are gungans
Yes?

>>65195239
>>65195241
This was by design even in the fantasy. IE, the cure to what made the bots incompetent was already there: better software, and if you really needed to stretch the chassis: boutique hardware and matching equipment.
Was unironically the perfect bot force.
>>65195248
Space Mexicans drive around in giant olds mobiles through the desert and just scrap them. The maintenance is done by other robots overseen by space Asians (literal bug people).

>>65195291
By design redundancies to maintain the coherency of their programming.
It’s basically a spiritual mantra
>>65195322
Bots basically won every objective that was dictated on an open battlefield, even if they got massacred by the clones.
It was a pure numbers game. Clones being better soldiers and having better equipment only let them win where they could perform precise interventions within or without the above contexts.

>>65195224
>each droid has identical paint wear

>>65195241
Could a clone army beat Russia in Ukraine?

>>65195391
Depends on how many there are, I wonder how they would react and approach the drone threat

>>65195241
>>65195277
Droidekas were canonically super expensive, basically could be considered as hyper-mobile armor assets with light weaponry (HMGs only) in terms of both cost and durability. They were too expensive to be produced on the scale needed for frontline troops. Maybe even more expensive than armor, but just so fucking useful and effective that it was worth using a lot of them? Also iirc they burn through energy reserves like crazy, so not ideal for things like guard duty.

B1 and B2 with better software like >>65195324 says was the solution. B1s in particular could be very potent when upgraded, since they ARE actually capable of agility at least on the level of a normal human. BX was superior to those upgraded B1s, but yeah, clearly cost was an issue given how rare they were

>>65195699
>not ideal for things like guard duty

Wouldn't being closer to a method of recharging make them better at guard duty?

>>65195391
They already are, I don’t know why they decided to an aging British politician though.

>>65195239
wasn't the EU explanation that they were originally just low cost security bots? that always made sense to me

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>>65195224
I love the way they look.

>>65195709
Yeah if you had that available then they'd be fine for it. You did occasionally see them pulling guard duty in important places where presumably they'd be very close to a recharging station

>>65195715
Kek

>>65195358
in real manufacturing this type of thing is common. parts get consistently banged and scraped by the same poorly designed processes and no one fixes it because no one cares.

>>65195277
Reason the BX is so expensive is partially because it wasn't mass-produced like the B1 and B2; physically, it isn't even made out of any exotic space metals like the B2 is, but titanium and steel. For an army bound to a single planet, the BX is an adequate model for your basic troop.

>>65195277
The BX seemed more capable than the rank and file human/clone troopers

>>65195224
>no FPV drones
Joke

>>65195391
since humans can shoot drones down with the right ammo, clones with their superior reflexes and perceptions as well as all the targeting tech in their helmets would eliminate drones as a threat and put kino back on the menu

>>65195765
After playing Pragmata I would hazard they might charge the same way Diana does in the game, at least on ships and inside installations:wireless charging apparati built into the floors.

File: IMG_6053.png (694.3 KB)

>>65195224
I’m good clanker

>>65195239
Literally doesn't matter. Competent soldiers, even clones with fast aging, take better part of a decade to grow. Battle droids can be made from scratch in hours. And as others have pointed out, competence is a software issue; they can be aimbots if not coded by jeets.

Lucas can't into numbers. CIS had such ridiculous amount of manpower AND ships that they would btfo every faction in the SW universe combined.

>>65195277
B2s required the clones to bring oversized heavy blaster rifles as standard issue weapons, and then load them up with premium-quality ammo on top of that. Those damn things are seriously hard to put down for how cheap and expendable they are.

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>>65195734

>>65196254
He sort of knew, The republics big advantage was the jedi, but Mace even says before it happens that if it comes to war there will not be enough jedi to protect the republic.

>>65196290
True, you only see the jedi mow them down with no trouble because they're fucking jedi.

>>65195239
>Keeping down illiterate civilians armed with barely functional firearms
So…all of Europe, Russia, Middle East, India, Canada, South America, Australia, and Africa?

>>65195224
>George Lickass
Nah, bro. Pierre Sprey (aka Fighter Mafia) was right all along. Drones proved his theory that cheap disposable aircraft (drones) is the way to go vs ultra expensive and fat yuuuge multirole manned fighters. He was just ahead of his time.

>>65195331
The droids also regularly lost in space, and if you can’t win in the skies you won’t reach the ground.

>>65196347
That might hold weight if Sprey wasn't actively vocally anti-drone and viewed any kind of smart targeting as a liability. Sprey didn't predict shit, he just fetishized cheapness, which just happens to be tangentially relevant to the current situation.

>>65195241
I would flee at the sight of a droideka.

>>65195859
There are droids the size of mice to house cats. Fully space capable btw.

>>65195224
>Cant reliably hit a target at twenty paces

>>65195241
Ahh the upgrades that let them hit targets all the way to thirty paces.

>>65195224
That's great except China makes all the batteries and solar. Taiwan makes all the microchips.

>>65195241
The non-networked B1 droid had 2 problems:
Fragile due to poor quality control.
Dumb AI due to underpowered computer hardware.

The central computer B1 seemed to be poorly managed, which is understandable as tradefed didn't have professional military academics and were just rushing objectives without strategy. I find it interesting that jamming wasn't effective against the Ep1 droids. Maybe the EU or other series addresses jamming of control ship signals rather than the disabling of such control ships. If they're unjammable, the control ship makes sense to retain.

>>65195322
The gungan distraction was literally just that. It was to monopolize the occupation force resources so the capital could be infiltrated, naboo starfighters recaptured and take the frogface leader hostage. The plan probably would have failed if the control ship wasn't destroyed in divine providence by the force child. The naboo pilots were all useless trash.

Capturing gunray or whatever with the droid control ship still working would probably just result in a long hostage standoff and gunray being replaced with a new CEO. I don't know how important gunray is, maybe he's important enough for a hostage deal.

>>65196347
The only thing the reformers are right about is that the M113 despite being vulnerable to heavy machine gun fire is still a useful APC and can be used as both a battle taxi and an direct fire assault vehicle for close deployment and direct fire support to infantry.

That said the M113 doesn't really have any advantages over an armored car or MRAP who can do the same things.

>>65195734
>>65196301
kek

>>65196031
>hot brown tomboy clone
God imagine being surrounded by them as a padawan

>>65197258
Eh, I think it became passé to use the moment personal body armor eclipsed its base armor in technical protective value. We still need a tracked metal box, but something like either the tracked Stryker made of modern alloys if you want to keep it lightweight or that one project to rip the turret off the Bradley that somehow went nowhere for something with better base protection.

>>65196333
Let's not forget Mexico and most of Asia.

>>65197335
AMPV didn't go nowhere, it's winning as we speak. It's replaced mortar carriers, ambulances, and generic support vehicles in several of the armored brigades so far.

File: 1780186987157577.png (1.9 MB)

>>65197372
Huh, that's a pleasant surprise to me. I'm just used to the Army cancelling anything that isn't upgrading our existing hardware over the past couple decades.

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>>65195241
>Which Star Wars droid would make a good frontline unit in a real war according to you?
The Dwarf Spider Droid
>All terrain, can climb sheer surfaces and transverse river/sea beds
>Can see perfectly in pitch black darkness
>Has a rapid fire cannon that can eliminate infantry, armoured vehicles and low flying aircraft
>Works in coordination with other spider droids and acts as a spotter for the larger OG-9 homing spider droid
>Able to manoeuvre and engage hostiles in tight urban or underground areas
>Extremely personable

>>65195239
>>65195241
Droidekas are absolutely busted, they're insanely powerful in every Star Wars game and also canonically in the movies seeing how Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan ran from them. The CIS should have made more droidekas instead of fucking around with SBDs.

>>65195734
Truth nuke

>>65196031
>>65197327
>Execute order 67
My God

File: file.png (274.9 KB)

>>65195224
>tens of millions of these fuckers occupying some third world nation with 10 million extra coming each year
>not "WELL ON THE WAY"

>>65198530
full-spec Droidekas were just like Magnaguards; i.e. the only type of droid that could in fact stand up to Jedi was also too expensive to be deployed solely
the ol' hi-lo mix all over again

>>65195224
Yeah but then the Boris Johnson clone army can take them easily.

File: sex-robot.gif (2.8 MB)

>>65196031
Deploy the rape droids

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>>65199389
>order 67
fuck that, I want Order 69

>>65197258
reformers are a broken clock with a nigh-unfalsifiable position: they can almost never go wrong in their armchair wartheorycrafting by simply demanding more of (current thing)

>>65196380
>he just fetishized cheapness, which just happens to be tangentially relevant to the current situation.
correct

>>65196347
>Pierre Sprey (aka Fighter Mafia) was right all along. Drones
don't acquire targets using Mark One Eyeball last I checked
remember, Sprey insisted that infrared and radar would never be able to replace eyeballs in looking for ground targets, because something something Hans-Ulrich Rudel

so, if you are claiming that drones = blitzfighters, then in the recent mass drone barrage, Russia would have lost an additional 1,800 personnel and only 10% would have even hit their targets (never mind coming back from the one-way trip)
all because Pyotr Spreyovich said the Geran Blitzfighter must be equipped with a big cannon, bombs, and no guided ordnance whatsoever

>Be you in 2033
>Try to steal an old, rickety 2022 Tesla
>You accidentally set off the alarm
>The McPolice have already been notified
>They send out the camera drones and the McRape bots
>You see the McRape bots come running around the corner of block in your rearview mirror
>their cocks flapping as they run
>One of the Drones EMPs the car killing it and causing the doors to lock
>feeling of panic, and raw fear swells up in your chest right as the McRape bots make it the car
>They surround it and one smashes the windshield and grabs you by the collar
>You try to break free but it has a grip of iron
>Two other McRape bots come over and help the first pin you to the ground ass up
>The first one rips of your clothing while the others restrain you
> As you strain your neck trying to see what is going on you see their 9 inch silicon dicks beginning to grow and harden
>The first one now mounting your naked ass, presses its rubber hardon into you
>Another one uses its cock to gag you by gaping your throat with its 8 inch silicon girth
>The camera drones begin recording and live streaming to all the smart billboads nearby
>It begins thrusting using its McVaxx fluid mixed with blood for lube
>After 30 minutes it finishes, filling you with its McFlurry goodness
>the bots sprint away to the scene of another crime as quickly as they came
>You lay there a traumatized, McBuckbroken shell of a man

>>65195833
Why are you defending low effort slop?
Yeah there is consistency in wear coming from the same process but they're only similar, not fucking ctrl+c ctrl+v identical.

>>65199431 <- man has a point
even when LOTR ctrl+c/v'd the Rohirrim, they made sure to have blocks of IIRC ~30-40 Rohirrim dressed and equipped differently so that the ctrl+c/v would be unnoticeable
and they probably used different captures / renders of each adjacent block as well

>>65196254
>Lucas can't into numbers. CIS had such ridiculous amount of manpower AND ships
My brother in Christ, Lukas literally established the universe and none of the canon sources suggest that the CIS suggest that they would have defeated the Republic, yet alone the Empire. The CIS was a confederation of 10.000 planets (most of which were not as industrialised as the core worlds of the Republic), the Republic a system of over 1.000.000 Planets. The Republic had quintillions of sentient citizens, a non-clone Army of conscripts would have easily dwarfed the production capabilities of the CIS.
Take the 1s battle of Geonosis, literally where the Republic got caught off-guard against a prepared CIS-force. In both Legends and canon the number of clones amounted to ca. 200.000. There were around 1 Million B1-Droids, tens of tousands of B2 Droids and a few tousand of each other droid type. Let's assume that the CIS had 1.300.000 droids and let's ignore that the average B1 Droid is inferior to someone who has no military training, the CIS only has a 6.5-1 numbers advantage to the clones in one of their most important battles. Now imagine if instead of the Clones, Palpatine would have used conscripts from the 1 Million Worlds of the Republic, some of which are basically hive cities. The only reason the Republic used Clones is because palpatine needed a quasi-droid force that obeys every command for order 66.
You are also ignoring shipbuilding. The CIS only a slight advantage (Only Clone wars shows a good picture, usually 3 or 5 Frigattes to 1 Venator) while having inferior ships and admirals.
The only significant advantage of the CIS were starfighters. And until the OT Trilogy Starfighters were not as important ebcause they had much less capabilities than the ships of the rebel alliance, especially the mass produced trash of the CIS.
Really, only thing which doesn't make sense is why no other faction ever considered using Buzz droids.

>>65199651
>Buzz droids
overengineered wunderwaffle compared to prox fuzed high explosive in space

Neimoidians probably used it because they think the answer to everything is "make a droid for it"
hammers and nails

>>65197356
I don't think I've ever actually actually paid attention to what the other gungans were doing in that scene before. It looks like they were just sort of gently shoving or hugging the droid army.

>>65199783
what'll really cook your noodle is that the ones all the way at the back are standing still; it's a still background image

>>65195224
I don't think every American is earning $75,000 a year dude. That would be heaven though.

>>65199891
The mean US individual income is $67,000, maybe that's what anon meant.
Even the median is very high, at about $45,000 iirc.

>>65199891
>>65199956
Reminds of that quote concerning the javelin missile, some thing about the missile and it's launcher cost X dollars, said missile is being fired by a soldier who doesn't make that in a year, at someone who won't make that in his lifetime, is a fact so absurd it almost makes the war on terror seem winnable.

>>65200074
I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Bank clerks wiring hundreds of millions of dollars every day, eight hours a day.

Anyway... Yes, the numbers are a bitch. So with the knowledge that 1 year of your life is worth more than 10 of some benighted turdworlder's, you can be grateful that we live in this society instead of that, or moan with the other iPhone-Communist sheep about how "We LiVe In A sOcIeTy" when reality is that we are the 10%ers of the world.

>>65196333
Europe is fucked regardless because their population of fighting age males either flees when called upon (refugees) or hates the government for their active role in cultural erosion

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https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukraine-testing-shows-limited-suitability-of-phantom-mk-1-humanoid-robots-for-battlefield-use/

>However, while the MK-1 demonstrates the usefulness of the core technology, it remains far from the concept of “super soldiers.” The Phantom MK-1 can carry only about 20 kilograms of payload, is not waterproof, and lacks sufficient battery life for large-scale deployment.

>Common limitations of humanoid robots

Humanoid robots are heavy and expensive; the Phantom costs about $150,000. They also require regular recharging, can malfunction, and often lose balance. The Phantom MK-1 is powered by about 20 motors, each of which must function reliably.

>Deploying humanoid systems alongside regular troops also creates additional risks. Captured systems can become a source of sensitive data, as they store and transmit significant information. There is also the risk of signal jamming or spoofing.

>Another risk is the humanoid system’s ability to accurately assess situations. Artificial intelligence remains imperfect and can produce “hallucinations.” AI models may also suffer from algorithmic bias or behavioral drift, with decision-making potentially deviating over time as systems adapt in real-world conditions.

:(

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>>65195241
>>65198530
Rollerchads stay winning
>>65196254
I get the impression that the Republic usually outclasses CIS in any given 1 on 1 and generally seem to be worth multiple of their equals.
Average clones>B1, maybe about equal with B2
ARC or commando trooper>probably all of the droid infantry
ATTE>spider droid, AAT, maybe MTT
LAAT>lack of similar air support role outside of that thing from Battlefront which sucked by comparison if you count that as canon
ARC 170>vulture droids
Acclamator, Venator, Victory>Munificent, Providence
I think the Lucrehulk is the only thing the CIS actually has going for it in terms of dominating the field unless they completely swarm something and its never really depicted as being that meaningful

>>65195277
I always appreciate how Republic Commando made the B2 feel extremely intimidating. Health, size, damage output, sound design, everything. It's an effort to get rid of one or two in the game...make that 4 or more? Kinda tough.

>>65199651
It’s really comes down to what the goal is and who knows what.
What did dooku want?
What did palps want?
What did the banks want?
What did the outer/inner rim want?
The inner spheres where already dominant and just wanted to crush the separatists, so that’s easy.
The separatists are more of a mixed bag, ranging the entire imaginable gambit most likely.
Also
>what about the huts?
TLDR dooku was positioned to actually successfully not only succeed, but form a counter to republic power.
The republic was weak and unwilling to actually exert itself across the stars any more. All dick and no balls so to speak, and or vice versa with the CAS. That’s why the droids and clones were needed.
Only a few worlds where actually ready and willing/able to go to war over it, and their species all get named.

>>65199723
>Neimoidians probably used it because they think the answer to everything is "make a droid for it"
>hammers and nails
I always figured they were for bypassing shields. Probably still overengineered for that but droid brains are cheap in SW.

>>65200724
The final hold on the Acclamator is still pretty stressful but most of the time it's easy enough to just throw a grenade from cover and shoot their face off as they stand in the open, which is probably what a clone would do against them in a realistic fight and kind of highlights the problem with them

>>65195224
bump

>>65202074
Stop bumping your own thread fagort

>>65200827
Droida and their components are not cheap in SW, In the OT Luke's family had to buy used from the jawas and even then could only afford two that they assumed they would have to fix up. Keep in mind Lume's family, being water farmers on a desert planet would have been relatively well off.

>>65203473
Smart and utilitarian droids are expensive but a B1 is almost as cheap as the rifle it totes around and buzz droids don't need to do anything but locate something that looks mildly important and stick a drill into it. They also only need to be durable enough to survive getting on the ship.

Also, the Trade Federation is itself a gigantic manufacturing power able to slam complex component out at scale, they aren't paying the podunk tax for being on a sparsely populated desert planet that barely gets any traffic on a good day.

>>65203596
I think a large part of the B1's cheapness was from the fact they might had literally made over a hundred billion of them over the span of the Trade Federation's existence; they are in the running for the most common model of humanoid droid in existence. Under that metric, the B1 is actually pretty good value and you do see post war battle droids converted into labor units in places like Plazir-15. They'd certainly be a better fit for most menial jobs than a 3PO unit.

>>65204035
Also at the end of the day how much does the steel and plastic for their bodies and the copper and aluminum for their circuits cost? A midrange smartphone has great camera and microphone sensors and only cost about 300 dollars.

Mast production of course makes them very cheap but the fact that all the material that goes into a basic droid are so common and cheap makes scaling the mass production easy.

>>65197356
you're telling me this isn't a dark lord of the sith?

>>65198305
>all terrain
not with those exposed cylinders lmao
even in clean factory environments that shit gets clogged

>>65199431
why are you accusing me of defending it? i'm talking about real life, dumbass. ironically, your post is low effort slop because of the lack of thought and bad faith you applied with its creation.

>>65195721
The TPM-era ones are also meant to be more of a threat because they relied on a central control ship to offload a lot of computing, but that being such a single point of failure that it ended the whole occupation was compelling enough to ditch it. Unfortunately the B1s were never designed to run entirely on internal compute so they end up being fucking morons when used as more conventional droids. They were just already tooled up to make a trillion of the things so they went ahead and spammed them anyway.

>>65195721
The only explanation that actually would have made sense was that B1s were Forklift bots, and B2s were just crude uparmorings of that forklift, and that the "basic battle droid" was actually the Destroyer, being too expensive to deploy en masse.

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>>65208931
That's exactly how B1s and B2s are used post-war. They really do seem to be general-purpose droids who were chosen to be the backbone of the CIS for versatility reasons.

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>>65195224
Battle droids are definitely going to be a thing in the next 20 years. Humanoid robots are going to be all over the place soon including on the battlefield.

>>65195239
That's part of their purpose. They're super cheap and super expendable. Yeah your guys take out 100 for every 1 guy you lose, but you're not fighting 100 to 1 ratios. You're fighting 1,000 to 1. That said yeah, not the best. They're security droids (great for occupation) being used as front line soldiers and that started as getting around Republic restrictions in the same way the Lucrehulks were battleships in all but name prior to the clone wars.

B-2s were the purpose built true battle droids. Programming issues that make them do stupid things are probably the easiest problem to solve. If I remember right there was at least one B-1 that got custom software and it turned into an outright aimbot with that same dopey personality. Imagine getting squad wiped by a B-1 and the last thing you hear is it saying something painfully stupid.

"Hey Unit 8492, do you think love can bloom even on a battlefield?" as everything fades out.

>>65195241
B-2, BX, and droideka. Leave the B-1s as back line forces running things like logistics and basic security. Droidekas were horrendously expensive but could also be paid for with literal fresh meat. BX droids probably could've been cheaper if made at scale instead of as special low number units.

>>65209005
The story could have elevated itself a great deal by having a fleet of cargo haulers essentially holding up a planet with a "fake army", but old George wanted a setting where legitimate threats on the battlefield march shoulder to shoulder and slip on banana peels going "oh no whoopsie!!!" and fall over like dominoes.

>>65210002
>a fleet of cargo haulers essentially holding up a planet with a "fake army"
idgi, elaborate please?
sounds interesting

>>65210044
I think anon is suggesting that the bulk of the Trade Federation's fighting strength should've been a bluff. Probably an impressive vanguard to wow people and do a little real fighting but then most of the 'army' is bulked out with shit never meant to fight that they've painted in army colours and maybe handed a blaster.
Basically turn it into a twist that the droid army is useless into a fight instead of plot convenience.

>>65210002
The trade federation having a decent Space Force and a mediocre ground army of warehouse robots with guns makes sense from the perspective that it would be similar to Walmart, Amazon and some arms companies forming their own coalition. They naturally would excel with space drones as protecting their logistics that they hyper specialized into is already likely done, so you just scale up production of your protection drones. Ground army is an afterthought, after all the Trade Federation never wanted to do full blown war with the Republic but rather just needed the bare minimum to make any Republic force outside of a total militarization not an issue, which was Palpatine's goal. The Trade Federation was a well crafted faction for Palpatine's purposes in transforming a Republic that shied away from standing armies into an Empire with full fleets and armies.

>>65200688
>the Lucrehulk
That's a converted bulk freighter, it wasn't able to push back a dozen Gucci planetary militia fighters. Its basically an evergreen with welded plates and a bunch of flak 88 bought at discount on the deck.
Damage control runs on the hopes and dreams of retarded droids.
CIC is design for commercial operations and staffed by those frogs that couldn't cut it as finance bros or where to much into fighting pirates
The only thing it does well is ample cargo space, and finance magic for summoning drone swarms.
[spoiler]I still love it[/spoiler]

File: direct transition.png (648.7 KB)

>>65210190
ah, I see

>>65210213
the main issue with the Prequel Trilogy Old Republic world is that while it is a fascinating setting and I love it, SO FUCKING MUCH of the information we get about it comes from sourcebooks, novels, comics, toons, production notes etc when it should have been in the fucking movie in the first place

why is Tartakovsky's cartoon Clone Wars so acclaimed? because besides being fucking awesome, it fleshed out the war that barely made it into the ROTS movie
why is the Clone Wars arc in general so beloved? because of the tie-in games, novels, and comics; Republic Commando, Battlefront, etc
why is Matt Stover's novelisation better by far than the Revenge Of The Sith movie itself? because it explained Anakin's fall better than anything else ever did
which is a failure of film-making

I can't be the only one who remembers that just prior to the ROTS release, George Lucas acknowledged that the movie doesn't do a good job of depicting the Clone Wars and the gradual destruction of the Republic and decimation of the Jedi Order and that he considered making the PT a quadrilogy but he decided not to because he wanted to stick to the trilogy "tradition", as Hollywood had never had a 4-part movie series before
(and no doubt because the studio had only contracted for 3 movies and he could not alter the deal)
also, I vividly remember them encouraging us to watch the Tartakovsky series because they said the series, especially Season 2, would help bridge the gap between AOTC and ROTS and explain the opening events of ROTS much better. I personally was quite shocked when ROTS opened and it was virtually the next scene after the final cartoon episode. which is a massive timeskip for ordinary movie-watchers after AOTC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrmok1n9l_0

TL;DR the Prequel era works despite the Prequel Trilogy, not because of it

>>65210213
B-1s were actual security droids, not "warehouse" droids. Pre-CIS they sucked because the central computer running the show was a weak point. By the late clone wars they still sucked because even though now they could operate completely on their own the coding was pajeet tier at absolute best. Regardless they were still shoehorned in to many roles they just flat weren't made for. Basically sending armies of Paul Blart: Robot Edition to war.

On top of that the guy running the Republic and the guy running the CIS were secretly the same person. Palpatine wanted to maximize suffering, especially of the Jedi. If the B-1s had been competent the war would've been over in a month or two as gorillions of droids face the much smaller and slower to replenish clone army.

>>65210236
The Lucrehulks of the pre-CIS Trade Federation were as heavily armed as they could be without running afoul of Ruusan Reformation restrictions which were basically the Star Wars equivalent of the London Naval Treaty. They were meant to be totes fr not a battleship wink wink and horrendously outgun most local forces.

What got them in Episode 1 was actually the same problem ISDs have. Hilariously garbage point defense because "Oh boy look at all those piles of cheap fighters we have! They'll protect us from the outrageously superior enemy fighters!"

>>65210315
>the guy running the Republic and the guy running the CIS were secretly the same person. Palpatine wanted to maximize suffering, especially of the Jedi.
this is the main factor distorting all evaluations of Republic vs CIS grand strategy.

>>65210236
iirc the CIS started pimping them out throughout the war after TPM with more and bigger guns and their fighter armament probably diversified from associating with other factions. I dont know if anything in lore is reasonably comparable in size and firepower until they develop the first ISD and even then idk who wins in a 1v1.

>>65211149
You'd hope an ISD would be able to take out a Lucrehulk considering it's a converted civilian ship.

>>65210354
It is important to remember that Palpatine never wanted the CIS to win, he just wanted to seem like a big enough threat. For long enough for the Republic to transfer all real power to him, so that he could start remoulding the republic into the new sith empire with minimal loss of worker bees and minimal damage to galactic infrastructure. Palpatine set it all up so that he could make them go away as soon as he didn't need them anymore.

>>65211155
I did the math from wookiepedia numbers and the Lucrehulk is about 14.5x larger of a battleship but their armament listing suggest the ISD was much better for capital ship combat while the Lucrehulks space was mostly to function as a carrier and could shit out over a 1000 more fighters. Guess its hard to say.

>>65210044
So you have a set up where these assholes, the trade federation, have launched a surprise blockade of this planet, frantically rushing to get the queen of the planet to sign a peace deal before anyone can react. Their ships look massive, their army looks massive, but it's a scam, it's a con. These are freight shippers, not generals. Their ships are massive because they're freighters, not battleships. Their fighters look imposing but they're just flying power-jacks (their wings even look like they'd plug into a shipping container and essentially tug-boat it around). Their troop transports are just cargo transports. Their "soldiers" are warehouse drones that move boxes with basic programming to identify a target, turn, and fire straight foreword. It's very imposing to see ten million guns when you haven't had a war in twenty generations, and any real resistance is smashed by the Trade Federation's small and expensive actual army.

The "real" warbots are the Destroyers, extremely expensive, shielded, autonomous war machines capable of forming and carrying out complex plans. Maybe the "real" tanks (as opposed to what amount to space UPS cars) are piloted by a Destroyer rolling into a tiny cockpit just big enough for himself, you could imagine being able to tell a "real" TF military vehicle from a "fake" one by it having a "slot" for a Destroyer to roll into. You could even give the Destroyers a little bit of personality as is customary. Imagine the scene where the ten droids open the poison fog room in the beginning of the movie. The chink giving them orders looks like a retard, but imagine if it was another droid assuring them that the jedi "must" be dead and they should go in and destroy the remains, meanwhile he and his buddies are speeding there, and he's just sending the cannon fodder in to buy time.

>>65210044
>>65212027
This way you can still have your army of ten billion retards that can't aim and pose like zero threat to an army of one million elite shock troopers, and it's an intentional thing, a trick, rather than a goofball loony toons silly billy reality.
The Trade federation thought this was a lightning fast con, they thought this was a real slick maneuver they were pulling and they'd be in and out in three days, not knowing they were being suckered into a larger con to destabilize galactic politics and sell the senate on creating an army of doomtroopers.

Every hundred thousand or million or whatever B1s is controlled by an individual ship, because that's the one they're a "part" of, they're literally just supposed to be loading and unloading that ship. If you want the "we only have to destroy one ship" gag, you can still justify that by saying one ship is boosting the signal of all the others, who ordinarily only have a range of a couple miles (the B1s are only supposed to operate a loading dock).
If you want to have the successive generations of B1s more independent, and still have them be retarded, say that the Trade Federation is bootstrapping them with whatever autonomous behavior modules they can buy, and they don't care where they're from as long as they can hold "Identify Ally" and "Pull trigger.exe" at the same time they're just slapping any old soul into an Amazon drone and handing it a blunderbuss.

Have the B2s literally just be the B1 with a massive but shitty suit of armor bolted on it, made out of melted garbage cast into a shape. When the CIS starts to form, the Tech union or whoever you want nabs that contract, "upgrading" B1s by the thousands but they're still just toy soldiers that stand in the open firing wildly.

>>65212050
B1's COULD be very dangerous if they were using better weapons, fuck if you gave them all PPSh-41's and programmed "deathblossom.exe" as their primary battle tactic then the numbers start making horrifying sense, it doesn't matter how elite your clones are when they are constantly suppressed.

>>65195241
b2 super battle droid

File: CAPTAIN WALKER.gif (125.9 KB)

>>65211275
Not just that, he wanted to quash any semblance of reasonable rebellion before he had to encounter them. With its resources spent in the war and its leadership decapitated on Mustafar, the only people who could oppose the empire would be ragtag misfits with no money, no momentum, and no clue. If it weren't for Luke, the rebellion would have eaten shit the moment the headquarters was hit on Yavin IV.
The clones were meant to betray the Jedi and kill almost all of them. The Jedi were meant to fight the CIS and wear them down. The CIS were meant to fail and, in failing, embolden the senate into the formation of an empire. Palpatine has to be one of the wisest Sith lords of all time for the clone wars alone, and there was more to him.

>>65212087
In any given era there are two types of sith. The ooga booga kind, and the get shit done kind. Palpatine is the poster boy for the latter.

>>65197219
true, china is closer to a droid army
i mean just look at the B1

>>65195241
Take a b1, spruce it's movement capability a bit to be more flexible in some ways, give it programming more equal to commando droids, now you have the best of the B1's cheaper numbers, the BX's capabilities, give those fuckers decent GL's or launchers and you have B2 capabilities just without the front face armor. Rolly polly olly is just too hyper specific to be replaced in purpose

>>65212439
B1s are extremely agile with resilient constituent parts for their cost. It’s their fragility and shit processor parameters that screw them. Fortifying them skyrockets manufacturing cost. Maxxing their droid brains is exacting and laborious.

>>65212061
B1s do not consistently have the motor control to "suppress" anything which is why battles are fought at ranges where there is a significant chance of a fist fight deciding the flow of battle. Padme was able to hit shit with a B1's gun at like five times the range they are.

>>65212439
Do you have any idea how many procurement clusterfucks have started out of 'take the cheap thing and make it a bit better and X and Y so it's like the more expensive thing'?

>>65212486
this
and then they blame "the bean-counters" when the bean-counters were telling them all along that they couldn't afford the "little bit better"

>>65195391
Kys

>>65213214
>tfw no b1 war trophy harem

File: StormtrooperMarksmanship.jpg (59.5 KB)

>>65196031

>>65212439
Isn't that just the B1 assassin droids? Like the sniper droid from that pic

>>65199431
this image isn't from the movie dumbass, it's like an amateur 3D modeler's image

>>65199431
His original point was a good one. Also they could be weathered purposefully post production, exacerbating the effect.

>>65212550
Shockingly, it often turns out there's reasons why expensive things are more expensive beyond someone having a giggle at your expense.
It is in fact typically the things you want to make the cheap thing do that are the entire reason the expensive thing is expensive.

>>65214119
>didn't hit the principal

>>65195239
Describing clones as "competent soldiers" is a massive understatement. Clones were designed from one of the greatest mercenaries in the galaxy and trained from birth to fight. They managed to junk droids (whose own side was being intentionally sabotaged internally) while also being supplemented by loyal planetary defense forces. The CIS was absolutely busted using personal security droids, converted shipping vessels, and having a handful of actually competent tacticians who lost because of space wizard fuckery.

File: Screenshot 2026-06-08 at 03-43-33 Thi-Sen_SWE.webp (WEBP Image 355 × 630 pixels).png (285.4 KB)

>>65216705
The Clone infantry would have been spanked by US soldiers from the fucking Civil War.

File: Blue Falcon.png (257.6 KB)

>>65218343
Those dudes have like 100+ yard spear throws and the environment was absolutely shitty to fight in tight snow filled canyons. I'm not going to fault the clones for getting fucked up by a bunch of outright yetis. Especially considering the whole problem was caused by having to babysit a retarded local politician that is constantly trying to get himself killed at their expense. If they could've just stunned him and tossed him in a cell I'd bet that whole arc would've gone MUCH better.

>>65218343
>>65218395
>Filoni fanfiction
disregarded

>>65218405
Dude... you posted it yourself with that picture of a Filoni Clone Wars Talz warrior. The whole point is administrative retardation can fuck up the best troops.

>>65195734
won't the jet exhaust make their legs uncomfortably warm?