no

>>65207933
I've shot a VSS with original ammo on several occasions.
They were commercially available, but rare, in my country until monke launched his great banan quest in Ukraine.

Pretty quiet, but not as quiet as you'd think.
Low power and low recoil.
Terrible accuracy,10-12 MOA at best. That's generally to be expected with integrally suppressed guns.
Poor reliability, even under ideal conditions.
Trigger is somehow worse than the decent trigger of a regular AK.

Very few redeeming features.
There are plenty of reasons why these things were never popular, even where they were/are pretty easily available.

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>>65207969
That sounds pretty bad. Do you happen to know anything about the Vikhr?

>>65207933
They have been around a bit in places. There's even been some 9x39mm ammo exported to the U.S, I think.

>>65207969
>Pretty quiet, but not as quiet as you'd think.
That's actually what I expect from earlier reading, it's far from the most efficient package, just a functional one at a low cost.

>Low power and low recoil.
That low power? Shouldn't it be roughly along the lines of subsonic .300BLK or .350LGN? Ergo slow, but quite heavy projectiles.

>Terrible accuracy,10-12 MOA at best.
THAT bad? Was that with surplus ammo? Does there exist any commercial 9x39mm match ammo anywhere?

>That's generally to be expected with integrally suppressed guns.
I'm not entirely sure on that part.

>>65207959
FPBP

97% of the posters here are nogunz neverserveds, and most of the Ruskies that would’ve used this one either died in the meat grinder or aren’t posting here. Anyone in the thread claiming to have experience will be lying to you/LARPing.

To my knowledge in the most modern loadings it’s similar performance/ballistics to .300 AAC Blackout but worse.

>>65207992
Slaps in day z desU

>>65208039
The Ukrainians who picked them off corpses in the early days when the Russians sent literal police units said they were mediocre to regular rifles for open combat since the drop was pretty bad at 300 meters. I'm not surprised because the guns were made for police to kill people without overpenetrating walls and knowing the Russians if they didn't do a proprietary round and gun special low penetration 5.45 or subsonsic frangible 7.62 would just get sold off and replaced with some rusty surplus.

>>65208019
Wolf 9x39mm was available in the US for a short time, yes. I fired a suppressed AR chambered in it, but didn't think it was exceptionally special.

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>>65208079
Please don't start this.

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>>65207933
I got to handle a kitbashed VSS made out of a parts kit that an FFL07 SOT got somewhere. It's hard to say if it is entirely a result of being a kit build but this thing was remarkably rickety and shitty.

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>>65208285
Other side. Grip/stock assembly was incredibly loose.

>>65208285
Cut your nails

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So they are really bad huh?
STALKER lied to me.

>>65208285
All the kits in the US came from blank firing non-guns. Retards were paying thousands of dollars for cut up $200 display pieces.

>>65207933
I have original VSS for collectors reasons and because i like stalker games, but its absolute shit of a weapon. Ammo is glorified pistol round. Its inaccurate at ranges higher than 200m, and tremendously expensive for civilian market (around 12usd per round in local currency), have zero positives.
Its fun thing to have, but otherwise its shit gun like most of things from russia.

>>65208691
One of the anomalous properties of the Zone, STALKER, is that it makes Soviet era weaponry accurate like laser. This is not coincidence, as the noosphere contains the knowledge of all weapon designers, this is also why NATO weaponry inexplicably have scopes from the future. I work for Ecologists, have for 26 years, I have not trained with firearms all my life yet can hit can at 200m with pistol I found in a ditch. It is wondrous here and you should write local representative to fund Ecologists' mission further!

>effectively a honey badger
>UGH WTF WHY ISN'T IT SUB-MOA???

its a swat rifle for close range snoipin

>>65208893
Wasn't actually more intended for sentry removal by Spetznatz units, hence the big boolit with AP properties that is still gonna ruin someone's day even if they're wearing an early helmet and kevlar vest?

>>65208019
>That's actually what I expect from earlier reading, it's far from the most efficient package, just a functional one at a low cost.
It's old, so that's one reason. The baffle stack is not much different than them AK silencers, except it's folded sheetmetal with marginally more complex geometry and no wipes.
>That low power? Shouldn't it be roughly along the lines of subsonic .300BLK or .350LGN? Ergo slow, but quite heavy projectiles.
The 278gr FMJ load is roughly equivalent to .45 Super 255gr loads.
>Does there exist any commercial 9x39mm match ammo anywhere?
You can make it, but it doesn't exist commercially. There is hunting ammunition which is significantly better than the FMJ that's commercially available. The military ammunition is also better than the commercial FMJ, but none of it is 'precision' because that's not what most of the guns chambered in it are really intended for. 10-12 is really bad though, my experience wasn't so poor.

>>65208918
Yes. Also people don't understand that intermediate barrier penetration is a far greater concern for military applications than it is for civilian shooters, everyone shittalks SS109/M855 and believes M193 to be superior in every way, but the truth is that M193 was flatly rejected by NATO because it had virtually no barrier defeating ability and became completely ineffective past 500M.

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>>65208039
There literally exist semi-auto commercial ones in Eastern Europe, people there have tried them.

>>65208048
>since the drop was pretty bad at 300 meters
That part isn't even weird though, it's a heavy and subsonic 9mm rifle bullet, its entire purpose is to be quiet and for shooting within relatively close distances, it's not an infantry rifle and wouldn't make sense to apply as one.
I'm more shocked to hear that the MOA is allegedly as bad as 12, and I'm having a hard time believing that part, that would be grotesquely bad even by Russian standards.

>special low penetration 5.45 or subsonsic frangible 7.62
They wanted it to be quiet but not as weak as a .22, so 5.45mm would be a no-go, and they wanted a much heavier bullet than what they'd typically use for 7.62mm

>>65208918
Yes.

>>65209010
>10-12 is really bad though, my experience wasn't so poor.
The other anon must have been shooting a defective or damaged example somehow, I can imagine it being subpar, but not THAT bad.

>>65207933
I've used one in tarkov so I'm basically an expert on the subject. Pretty good gun/caliber

>>65208749
>Its inaccurate at ranges higher than 200m
Uh, yeah? Was there an expectation that a 250 grain slug going airsoft speeds would be sub moa at the very edge of its effective range?

>>65208749
>emendously expensive for civilian market (around 12usd per round in local currency)
Damn you can get it for about $1 each here.

>>65208048
>you never shoot at anything over 300m!
>subsonics rounds are trash, you can't hit anything over 300m!
Schrödinger's /k/

>>65208893
>effectively a honey badger
>UGH WTF WHY ISN'T IT SUB-MOA???
Why isn't it? The honey badger is.
>its a swat rifle for close range snoipin
So not like the honey badger at all. It's literally designed as a sniper weapon, accuracy is kinda necessary.

>>65208691
They kinda had to.
If they were modeled accurately:
>They'd only be competitive early-game, where they'd be far too expensive and the ammo far too rare/heavy to be useful; or
>They'd be available late-game, with similarly rare weapons/ammo, each and every one of which would completely outclass them in pretty much every metric

>>65209274
Yeah, but if the zone itself was modelled accurately, any supersonic gunshot risks alerting a military patrol, mutant ambushes, a massive swarm of rats or a teleporting monolith patrol, and you'd generally be avoiding conflict like the plague as any injury means death in a world where orange radiation kits don't instantly heal sucking chest wounds, so a VSS or something similar could have more utility than most other conventional guns. Its just that similar guns to the VSS aren't likely to exist in the zone, delisles are museum pieces and the series predates 300 blackout being taken seriously; so the VSS would be your go-to

>>65208691
If you take into account the average person you're shooting at in the Zone and the conditions you're fighting in, it would be fairly useful to have a suppressed subsonic gun.

>>65209059
M855 was designed to penetrate a nondescript soviet helmet at subsonic velocities, you're a completely delusional shit-eater if you think it has any "barrier defeating" ability past 500m.

>>65210700
>M855 was designed to penetrate a nondescript soviet helmet at subsonic velocities
That's a myth.

>>65208039
I have tonnes of experience, but now I'm not telling.

>>65207969
This wasn't my experience at all in Shadow of Chernobyl.

File: Malyuk Trigger.png (2.7 MB)

inb4 bullpup

How's shooting Malyuk? How good is the Trigger?

>>65210727
that's the entire reasoning for its adoption you troglodyte

>>65210914
It's really not.

>>65210917
yes it is you absolute fuckwit

>>65209219
nie zesraj sie

>>65207933
>big fat slow bullet
It's a dumb idea even for pistols.
Pants-on-head retarded for rifles.

>>65211055
.45 bros...

>>65211060
>inb4 1911-fudds step in to defend an obsolete cartridge meant to replicate the performance of a hopelessly obsolete black powder revolver cartridge form the mid 1800s as somehow being modern and competitive

>>65211055
Fat and slow is your ONLY option if you want a rifle which is actually dead quiet but which isn't a dinky little .22, supersonic is great until you want to do something where you don't want the enemy to be able to easily hear you shooting.

>>65207992
This is just the same thing but cheaper to build, right? So it's probably worse in every way besides cost.

>>65211081
desu for civilian life it's literally fine, it's powerful enough to be viable for carry and HD, not hard to control, and it doesn't matter that magazine capacity is smaller because you'll probably not even need to fire a full mag of whatever you use anyway.

>>65211118
>Fat and slow is your ONLY option if you want a rifle which is actually dead quiet but which isn't a dinky little .22
Yeah, but noise level under suppressed is also the ONLY area where these rounds are superior in any respect to their high velocity counterparts.
Although i do think slow and fat big old lead slugs have a certain charm of their own, and for that reason I own several black powder guns, I'm grounded enough in objective reality to see that these rounds have a shitload of drawbacks and very few advantages compared to modern cartridges.
So while slow&fat suppressed rounds do have a legitimate military application, that application is extremely limited, to the point where the number of effective applications of these weapons in combat rivals the number of effective bayonet applications in modern combat.
These applications are so rare as to be statistically irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

>>65211129
>for civilian life it's literally fine
Yes, absolutely. I'm by no means disagreeing with that.
It will shoot clean holes in paper if you need it to.
It'll also drop a hostile two-legged predator if you need it to.
There's no question about that.
Same goes for other tried and true rounds like .38spc, 44spc, 44-40, etc.
But that doesn't change the fact that these rounds are obsolete, or at best obsolescent, in a military context. And they're by no means modern or "just as good".
It doesn't change the fact that there are now a multitude of other cartridges better suited for military and/or law enforcement use.

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>>65211118
>>65211144
Retard here, is there any sci-fi bullshit way to get projectile weapons outside of the range of human hearing?

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>>65211173
>use fancy sci-fi electromagnet bullshit to quietly lob enormous high-mass projectile (canon ball or huge arrow) into target at subsonic speed
>??????
>profit

>>65211173
It's called a subsonic projectile with a modern silencer.

>>65207933
Only a little but i know a few people who handled more of them on more occasions than I have. They are not good rifles by most metrics. I like ak triggers and the vss and val ive gotten to play with had mushier triggers, the break was unpredictable. The accuracy was not great. I really wouldnt be comfortable shooting at a torso at longer than 200m. The recoil was less than i expected but this makes sense as its almost a pcc. It is very evident this was their attempt at something in the vein of a mp5sd and its execution wasnt great. I’ve heard they have a tendency to beat themselves to death but thats beyond my experience with them. The suppressor is very primitive even by soviet standards. From what im told the “gun guys” among Russian troops preferred suppressed 7.62x39 guns because they were more accurate, reliable, and not very much louder than 9x39 guns.

>>65211185
This sounds plausible
>>65211201
Im talking like getting something down to whale song or up to dog whistle levels of noise. All modern guns are still audible.

>>65208918
That's what he said.

>>65211463
>SWAT

No, it wasn't at all designed nor intended for use as a police weapon, it was for popping NATO sentries when Spetznatz were harassing backline units which is why it had a huge emphasis on AP properties while criminals weren't going to have armor back then.

>>65211160
Mark 23.
>>65211173
Teleporting bullets into your enemies' skulls.

>>65211467
Retard, russian police has (had?) Spetsnaz units, fsb had spetsnaz units, and they all would use VSS and AS because they needed something quiet with a heavy bullet that would drop people from 50m even if they had ballistic vests. Someone has mentioned MP5SD and it's actually a good comparison.

>>65207933
Unless you can actually get, or manufacture one of these funs, and either have a supplier or reload for the ammo, id rather have .338 spectre.

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>>65211490
>Teleporting bullets into your enemies' skulls.
i just learned lego makes picrel

>>65211513
The point isn't who uses it, it's that it wasn't designed nor originally intended for police use you dumb fuck. It was designed in the fucking 80s when criminals wouldn't have had anything that required AP properties, but NATO gear was starting to get to the point where you couldn't trust that a suppressed pistol round was going to pop a sentry reliably. The fact it was a dogshit gun and dumb concept on the whole for a soldier to carry a heavy weapon with that limited use case quickly meant that the VSS wasn't used in it's original role for very long, but you're a retarded nigger who is unable to under the thought process behind the design and it's original use case.

>>65211544
>it wasn't designed nor originally intended for police use
It was. KGB spetsnaz was literally swat. Now cry a little bit more about it.

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>>65211558

>>65208285
>molot arms
not a vss.

>>65211544
>dumb concept on the whole for a soldier to carry a heavy weapon with that limited use case
NTA, but it wasn't strictly for soldiers. Military spetznaz and KGB spetznaz were completely separate entities in the soviet union with their own supply chains and development pipelines, a sort of Iranian army vs IRGC situation. I wouldn't call them SWAT, but they did certainly have a focus on intel gathering, assassination and general short-ranged urban work that the actual military did not. Hence why they originally came in a suitcase.

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>>65208749
>>65208691
It plays well in Squad.

>>65207969
>inaccurate integrally suppressed guns
Is this true for all of them, like the Delisle carbine? What makes them especially inaccurate?

>>65213365
There may be some magically accurate integrally suppressed gun out there that I've never heard of, but yeah.
Once you start drilling a bunch of holes in the barrel the accuracy goes to shit.
Don't ask me why exactly that's the case, I suspect it may be due to complex fluid dynamic bullshit of the powder gasses affecting the projectiles in weird ways.
Regardless of exactly why, integrally suppressed guns (including DeLisle carbines) are very inaccurate.
The vast majority can just barely manage 50/50 accuracy against man-sized target at 100 yards or so, anything beyond that is a complete crap shoot.
They've got accuracy more or less on par with smoothbore muskets, with the very best ones still being less accurate than smoothbore shotguns lobbing rifled slugs.

>>65213365
No he's just a retarded motherfucker.

>>65211010
Calm down boomer, this isn't some foundational myth, its okay you're wrong because you took something at face value because half the internet regurgitated it.

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>>65213491
Sure, buddy. Sure.

>>65213524
no need to project you underage brainrotten contrarian subhuman, no matter how much you pretend it isn't it's still true and this won't change.

>>65211513
>hat would drop people from 50m even if they had ballistic vests
except it wouldn't pen any hard ballistic vest, even the steel ones that were the most common type in 1990s russia by far.

the best it could do is penetrate ballistic helmets when hitting them at least somewhat squarely.

>>65213535
I don't care about Russian shitrods like the VSS or niggerrigged .45 carbines from WW2. Your assertion was that ALL integrally suppressed guns are inaccurate which is complete bullshit.

>>65213540
Confession via projection sure is a funny thing when you base all your fuddlore opinions on shit Forgotten Weapons read from wikipedia.

>>65213365
He's talking a bunch of shit.

>>65215137
ForgottenWeapons outright said the helmet thing isn't true.

>>65215137
>you base all your fuddlore opinions on shit Forgotten Weapons read from wikipedia
and you base all your fuddlore on reddit posts and your asshole, nigger.

m855 is a dogshit travesty that's worse than regular jacketed lead ball for everything but punching through sheet steel at subsonic velocities.

>>65215828
M855 truly IS mediocre, but it was not designed for the helmet penetration thing, or was it a requirement, it just happens to do that, which at some point became the myth that it was its purpose.

>>65215828
>>65215881
M855 is superior to M195, fucking cry.

>>65209233
Anon in this case we're talking about actual soldiers not larpers.

>>65215894
Maybe in barrier penetration.

>>65215881
>but it was not designed for the helmet penetration thing, or was it a requirement, it just happens to do that,
Effective fire range of small arms fire was literally defined as range of Soveit steel helmet penetration.

>>65216384
This may blow your mind but the Belgians designed the round for their own use before the NATO adoption trial ever happened. Forgotten weapons isn't authoritative. He's wrong on quite a bit.


By the way there's also the incorrect belief that the FNC featured a 1/12 twist. NO FN FNC has EVER had a 1/12 twist. It was designed for the cartridge Belgium was developing, not American M193. This is directly from head of global sales, FN Herstal.

>>65216025
Ill penetrate yr barrier, bucko.

>>65216599
At least take me to dinner first, barbarian.

>>65216582
>Forgotten weapons isn't authoritative
He literally corrected himself on this.

>>65215894
Belgian delusion.

>>65216641
No he didn't lmao. He's still posting stupid shit all the time. From his aug content that was plagiarized from wiki to his laughable an-94 video. He's out of his lane.

I honestly don't mind his content but he should preface his videos on it not being authoritative when he's not as knowledgeable about it. I absolutely think he's probably the most knowledgeable person out there on quite a few oddball guns but when it comes to PACT gear and cold ear stuff he's out of his lane imo.
>>65216644
It literally performs better in gel than m193. I'll be generous and say it performs the same which means is superior when you consider barrier defeating characteristics of the round.

M193 is a cool round from a 20" but its time has passed.

>>65216653
Wasn't his AN94 video like 8 years ago?

>>65216582
>the Belgians designed the round for their own use
With the same criteria of extending of effective range that was defined as range of Soviet steel helmet penetration.

>>65216670
9 years ago.

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>M855 vs soviet steel helmet 600 meters.
The one requirement for M855 I have seen a lot is the ability to penetrate the Nato plate (3.5mm mild steel) out to 600 meters (nammo specifically states M855 can do it 570 meters). 3.5mm mild steel is roughly twice the thickness of the generic cold war era steel helmet ( between 1.2mm ~ 1.8mm) but the typical cold war helmet is usually made out of better material then mild steel so you need about twice the mild steel thickness to stop the same projectile that a military steel helmet can.

So with M855 being able to penetrate 3.5mm mild steel it would have the requirement to penetrate almost all known steel helmets at 570 meters assuming no weird hit angle, pic related shows that SS109 can penetrate the FRG and US M1 helmet which are both 1.2mm thick IIRC beyond 900 meters. There are some few exceptions that might stop it at 600 meters like the Swedish helmet, Romanian helmet and East German helmet that Mike B have done ballistic testing on youtube but I would not gamble my life and wear those helmets and get shot at 600 meters in the head.

>>65216695
Nope.
>>65217036
Based knower.

>>65207933
The problem with something like this is that anything subsonic "good out to 200 yards," is that way because it's a high-arcing rainbow shot. You get to urban fighting in skyscrapers, it's going to be 200 yards actual flight just to reach a ground floors target, and good luck guessing the dope on that for whatever elevation.

I just don't even see a good case for it other than SWAT already surrounding a guy, or black bag asassin/snatch-and-grab type shit. Basically at that high speed, then why is it such a clunker?

>>65217036
So it was a half-truth all along!