>>65215644
Peer vs peer over an insurgency vs first world nation professional army

Terrorists didn’t have ranks, su-57s , or any defense against air support or artillery they had a couple aka and mines

>>65216181
/thread
The taliban wasn't about to hit you with glide bombs or guided rocket arty.

>>65215644
Fallujah isn't even remotely close to the intensity of Avdiivka and Bakhmut, and those battles weren't (for Ukraine at least) even remotely close to the intensity of Azovstal, or Mariupol in general. Azovstal was a fortified bunker system in a massive urban industrial complex and by the time the russians gained control of the rest of the city, every man there was fully prepared and expecting to die. Food, ammo, and weapons were being scavenged off of dead russians. There were nearly 2500 soldiers defending the plant, 100% of them by now hardened veterans.

Azovstal itself was a hardened facility that resisted airstrikes, missiles, etc. Infantry of both sides could and did set up snipers, machine guns, and rifle teams in every dark hidden spot you could think of. The defenders extensively booby trapped the place too. Donbabweans were basically used as cannon fodder throughout the battle of Mariupol, yet in the first week or two of the Azovstal siege, russia avoided any direct assaults because of how heavy the losses would be. They instead tried bombing the place, including with unguided munitions, but as mentioned previously that didn't fucking work. So then they did assault it and take those catastrophic losses. Most of the fighting was above ground but there was also tunnel combat. Imagine fighting in tight tunnels for days on end, knowing the room you're sleeping in is just down the hall from where the enemy is positioned. This continued for weeks, with russians still bombing the hell out of the place (which, given the use of unguided bombs and the close quarters proximity of forces, implies a near total disregard for friendly fire). While a minority wanted to surrender, the majority preferred death, and only surrendered after high command gave direct orders to cease fighting, including a direct appeal from Zelensky.

So no, Fallujah is not even remotely close to that nightmare.

>>65216201
Taliban mortar teams were pretty fucking deadly thoughalbeit

>>65215644
The US had information dominance, air dominance, PGMs to spare, superlative infantry training advantage, etc etc. The cities the US invaded were less industrialized and had lower strongpoint densities.

Russia has more meat, a limited air advantage, an artillery advantage, and essentially was equal to or worse off than Ukraine in every other metric.

That Russia made any advances at all after the loss of strategic surprise is a testament to Russia’s brutal willingness to expend men more profligately than the US expends helicopter fuel.

>>65216245
I wonder if a couple of US marine brigades would've done better in the Azovstal siege, if they were given the same equipment (but without air superiority). Dunno how well they would've done compared to the Russian soldiers.

Also weren't the Azov fighters basically irregulars?

>>65216389
Sure, compared to their other teams consisting of machine gunners mixed in with the shepherds, but it is a low bar.

>>65216469
>done better
Yes but also no, with better gear and training they would have attacked at night to use their NVG advantage and would have taken less casualties but it was such a clusterfuck "less casualties" would probably still be 100 to take a couple of acres.

>>65215644
Slav vs Slav, plus being a testing ground for tactics and weapons (like the Spanish Civil War)

ukraine and russia are both limited in what they have (material, competent officers/soldiers, etc)

File: tVo2NW.gif (1.5 MB)

>>65216389
>pretty fucking deadly
You're not wrong about that.

>>65215644
Slavs are built differently from Arabs.

>>65216469
There were reorganized into the AfU in '14. And many of the Azov fighters in Mariupol had almost a decade of fighting experience.

>>65215644
Fallujah was brutal, but if the answer is would I rather serve as an infantryman with or without America's mind boggling military supremacy, the answer is always yes.

>>65215644
America is competent unlike Russia

>>65216702
I don't believe overweight wellfare queen hispanics are better than one of the most battle hardened formation on the planet.

>>65216389
They could be a real fucking menace to individual squads and shit, sure, but they weren't exactly mortaring all the Americans flat.

>>65216850
so butthurt you pull the polcard, BTFO

>>65216245
>Azovstal
will be epic gaming and movie material

File: iraqpopulation.png (178.6 KB)

>>65215644
90% of Iraqi population is alongside the Euphrates and Tigris. It isn't spread out at all. Very easy to cover your flanks when the enemy is easy as fucking shit to spot when or if they try.

Ukraine is a much larger country with forest for cover and its population is much more spread out and they have far more cities and every single fucking one of them is a concrete and steel nightmare.

>>65216715
Wasnt Azovstal designed to weather a nuclear strike? What would the US airforce do?

>>65216181
It is kind of funny we call Russia vs. Ukraine a peer war.

>>65218422
>what would the fattest and most overfed child of the american mic do
keep dropping anti bunker gbu-31s until the place is a crater filled with corpses and what used to be a steel mill

>>65215644
Big difference between conventional forces using a combined arms approach vs. insurgents using primarily small arms, RPG's, and mechanical ambush techniques with a variety of explosives.

>>65218430
>me again
but basically a high explosive saturation bombing to force the defenders underground, then targeted penitrative bombing to bury them in their defense network
fairly textbook bombing doctrine

>>65217109
thats mostly because the rest of the taliban forces weren't properly equipped, so they couldn't really use the taliban's mortar capabilities to full extent.

The soviets were awful and living in the soviet union would be awful, but they expected to have nuclear war, had lessons from ww2 urban fighting, and built commie blocks to withstand nuclear blasts from a distance. Every city is full of fortresses that can soak up a lot of damage before flattened. By the time a city is taken they are flattened. It is brutal warfare.

>>65216245
What's fucked is the treatment the Azovstal PoWs received. Fucking systemic torture, starvation and some even got fucking castrated - if they survived at all.

>>65218482
weren't they doing that shit to russians all the time?

>>65218484
The Azov batallion was mostly russian itself, so they treated Russians better and in turn got treated better themselves by the Russians.

>>65218484
Probably some cases where they couldn't stomach treating those animals well anymore, but they have strict orders to treat them well. There's dozens of videos of Azov/Kraken soldiers taking, treating, feeding and interviewing Russian PoWs, and I don't think they keep a necklace of vatnik balls in the company barracks.

>>65216181
>su-57s
Russia doesn't have those either. Also, fat.

>>65218488
Dubs. B8?

>>65215644
A lot of reasons, one of the biggest was the Insurgents lived in the area, and the ones who didnt at best trickled in after the coalition could cordon off the city.
In Ukraine, both sides immensely struggle to actually surround cities, so it devolves to both nations funneling their men through the sides they control, and fight it out in the cities

File: 1775156918081645.jpg (998.5 KB)

As others have said, Haji wasn't able shell you for a night then drive a column of armor towards you while denying you your air assets.

the Lame War On Terror was mostly policing action outside the initial invasion. COIN at most.

File: 1768006852871985.png (536.5 KB)

>>65218482
>Azovstal PoWs received
They weren't special in that regard. Or maybe just a little. That's standard Russian handling of prisoners, be it the enemy or their own fellow Russians.

File: 1580038274468.jpg (101.2 KB)

>>65216469
US Marines were at Azovstal, defending the plant. Yes, yes "volunteers", right? JKust a couple of guys who joined AZOG for fun and crazy advebntures. Funny how the 22nd MEU happened to be deployed at the time and was crashed out to Europe. Funny how nobody has heard from a bunch of Marine Raiders since that time? Maybe they're on holiday? All these strange coincidences. I'm sure everyone here believes the US government at all times, right? And it's *well known* that it's """impossible""" for the US government to cover up catastrophic losses to a marine battalion, yet not much has been heard 2/6th Marines since then. So many strange coincidences piling up.
Everywhere collapsed but Mariupol and Azovstal, which miraculously managed to hold out against the entire Russian army, and managed to stay supplied despite air defense being tighter than an Afghan's sphincter. unless of course you had access to stealth choppers. How very strange that DPR troops reported getting hit by very accurate fire support all the time, almost like they were being bombed by stealth bombers being called in by US JTACs. But then could *never* happen right. Funny how it just happened to be the right time to slow down the Russian steamroller at a key point and stop them advancing fastly and saved the Kiev regime. Oh, I'm sorry obviously I meant the """"Kyiv Democratic Government For Realisies"""", I know how precious your pronouns are to you. I'm just a crazy schizo, right? No way American marines were deployed and took heavy losses supporting an illegal regime, that couldn't happen.
Everything is understood.

>>65218796
lol, lmao even.

>>65218796
can you write whatever you wrote here again but with less crying
preferably on a different board

>>65218484
>All the time
No. Afaik they were doing those things specifically to artillerymen, because at one point Russia was basically indiscriminately shelling civilian population centers near the front line