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>>43270646
no one genuinely believed in that stuff right?
it was purely for the internet memes right?

>>43270646
It has obvious diagnostic relevance. You're retarded.

>>43270646
Because everyday on this board, in the news, and elsewhere, there multiple people clearly outing themselves as evidence to its veracity.
Basically, just have a set of eyes and ears and this shit is obvious af.

>>43271012
Men who are sexually attracted to women and want to be women might be sexually motivated? Mind blown.

>>43270646
>just ignore that there are very obviously at least two distinct groups of trans women who, aside from their transness, have very little in common (something even contra admitted once)

>>43271029
More like there's a distinction between those types and the ones who were gay,

>>43270646
It's just an observation that transgenders tend to fall into those two distinct categories, why does this offend you?

>>43271042
There's more than two major archetypes and it's honestly more of like, a field rather than a discrete typology.

I think a typology based on sexual orientation is also just kinda bogus. A typology should instead be built around root medical causes, like excess aromatization or insufficient virilization.

>>43271076
The strict dichotomy is false. Anyone can categorize anything they want into a dichotomy if they make their own criteria. Blanchard himself twisted his typology into basically "those who fit strict HSTS criteria" and "everyone else" rather than critically examining the flaws in his dichotomy.

Historical dichotomies themselves are similarly constructed. There's "the good ones/the ones I like" and "everyone else."

>>43271124
I do think there's a third category of men who had narcississtic, bpd mothers and have inherited a deep hatred of being a man because of it. Also a fourth category who were sexually abused.

>>43270646
AGP are men with a fetish that should not be encouraged
HSTS are harmless gays

>>43271163
It's hilarious the number of men who identify as AGPS and want to troon out and are told "noooo AGP doesn't exist"

>>43271155
Something I've considered is splitting dysphoria into Negative Dysphoria (dysphoria caused by lack of desired features) and Positive Dysphoria (dysphoria causes by presence of undesired features).

The classic AGP/discord transbian typically has a lot of the former but little of the latter. The classic HSTS has a fair bit of both (but obviously mitigated by being undervirilized to begin with). Then, there's the unnamed archetype who has a lot more of the latter but not so much of the former.

This third type is just erroneously lumped in with the former but are honestly somewhere in between. Like, the dysphorics who see themselves more as wannabe boywives would land in this category. They're "Failed HSTS" basically.

>>43271163
AGP is harmless, intrinsic and should be encouraged.

>>43271201
>should be encouraged.
Why?

>>43271227
Because repressing is horrible.

I hate Blanchard so much. His theories appeal to autists who need simple explanations and black and white thinking to make sense of a complicated world.

No one has ever been able to explain to me why I am neither AGP nor HSTS without telling me I must be making something up.

the second you make normal trans friends or get the fuck over yourself is the second you realise how few people actually fit into agp/hsts lol. it only feels real if you spend all your time online or only know the most visible, weird trannies through support groups or whatever the fuck

>>43271266
It's repressing or become freakish hon for me.

>>43271277
Why did you transition? Are you androphilic or gynephilic?

>>43271042
Contra the drunk banana dancing gay bathtub oil homowall poster having err non binary errr trender that smokes opium and Israeli genocide cock?

That hontrapoints?

>>43271291
not her but i feel exactly as she does. i transitioned because i lived as a girl until puberty started changing my body, and so i wanted to change my sex so i could keep living as a girl/grow into a woman rather than a man. i am bisexual

>>43271306
How could you live as a girl before you transitioned?

>>43271321
kids basically look the same and i had very liberal parents who let me choose my own stuff like clothes or hair or whatever. obviously people knew i was a boy but i didn't really live like one

>>43271347
If people knew, surely that affected how they interacted with you?

>>43271012
>>43271042
>>43271076
You guys have missed the point.
I'm not saying that Blanchard was wrong
I'm not saying that he was right either
I'm saying that his theory is, at least nowadays, considered irrelevant and needlessly stigmatizing in diagnosis and treatment of gender dysphoria
Although at least in my opinion, the AGP theory might be a pretty accurate framework when it comes to "sissies" or "crossdressers" aka males who have a masculine core sense of self for which the desire to be a woman is mostly a sexual thing. At least from what I've read, these individuals seem to experience some sort of inner conflict between their masculine self and feminine sex-sona and I can imagine how these people can suffer in a kind of dysphoria-ish way. However, trannies don't seem to experience this, bc they usually don't have a core masculine sense of self.

>>43271191
Hi random /tttt/ pseudointellectual
When I first thought I might be trans I had mostly positive dysphoria. Now I have both positive and negative dysphoria. I'm bi, I was more into women before but I'm more into men now (boobs are not that interesting anymore once you happen to have your own). I consider myself slightly aroused by the idea of myself as fully female, but I don't think it's the core of my sexuality, it might be bc I internalized the idea that being a non-passing tranny makes me ugly and non-desirable. Out of curiosity, what am I?

>>43271356
>. I consider myself slightly aroused by the idea of myself as fully female
And you don't consider yourself AGP?

>>43271354
i mean not really, or at least not in ways that mattered much. my friends (who were girls) generally just treated me the same, unless they were actively trying to hurt me like if we felt out. at which point 'but you're a boy' was used to exclude me. my parents treated me the same as my sister when i wanted that. strangers thought i was a girl. i'm not saying i had the exact experience of a cis girl but i was a trans girl, and that was enough to make me realise that i wanted to grow into being a woman not a man once i started virilising.

>>43271371
>i wanted to grow into being a woman not a man once i started virilising.
Was it ever an sexually arousing thought?

>>43271369
>And you don't consider yourself AGP?
I'd rather specifically tell you how i feel about stuff rather than call myself some ambiguous label and let ppl assume stuff about me
But people are assuming stuff about me anyways, so who knows

>>43271356
It makes you a tranny. I don't believe in the existence of a useful, strict typology that is driven by types of dysphoria or sexuality, just pointing out that a Blanchard-esque typology would need to account for these different groups.

To me, specific root causes driven by biological mechanisms are the only basis for a useful typology.

>>43271398
Even if we ever got a better tranny typology, I don't think it would ever serve a purpose other than entertainment purposes (see MBTI)

>>43271291
I don't know what to say other than I am transitioning because of an incongruence between my gender identity and birth sex. Masculine characteristics cause a lot of distress and feminine characteristics ease that distress. They don't make me feel "good", they help me be at peace. Psychologically, estrogen has eased a lot of my distress and dissociation but hasn't magically replaced them with good feelings. Being perceived as a woman does nothing for me but prevent that incongruence from hurting me further. Which is why I've never understood things like gender euphoria.

I am asexual. Actually asexual, nor a LARPer. I have never had sex, do not masturbate, do not watch porn, and do not experience sexual attraction. I wouldn't have sex with a partner, although I'm fine with dating. But no one dates asexual people though unless they're faking it. As for who I date, I have no gender preference, although I have very little experience dating because again, no one dates asexual people.

>>43271385
no. i'd say the closest its come to that was either a period of re-closeting where i would fantasise about having a boyfriend. but it wasn't titillating exactly, it was more like longing i suppose even if it had a psychosexual angle. post transition, living as female, i get sometimes aroused at the idea of being male though which is weird.

>>43271397
I use AGP personally because it perfectly describes what my sexuality is about. I want to have a fully female body, I want to wear women's clothes, I want to be seen and treated as a woman by others, I want to have sex as a woman.

>>43271428
>I want to have a fully female body, I want to wear women's clothes, I want to be seen and treated as a woman by others, I want to have sex as a woman.
if this makes someone AGP, would you say that cis women are (or can be) AGP?

>>43271441
If it's base of their entire sexuality and they spent thier life fantasizing and getting off to like I do, then sure?

>>43270646
it has a very practical and very common use for me of bullying ugly rapey trannies

>>43271458
Okay that makes sense.
For me it's more like: I want to have a fully female body, I want to wear women's clothes, I want to be seen and treated as a woman by others and then I want to indulge in sexual stuff that I actually like. Like I just really want to be able to masturbate and have sex without having to fight all of these awkward thoughts and feelings about what I am and how my body is like.

>>43271484
So the difference is...?

>>43271201
>harmless
No, it's actively harmful for oneself and people around them
>intrinsic
Maybe ,maybe not
>should be encouraged.
Fuck no lol

>>43271504
The desire to be a woman is not something that in itself gets me off. It's more like thinking of myself as a man (or a non-woman idk) triggers dysphoria which makes it harder to experience pleasure from masturbation and sex. I associate the though of being a woman with relief and "finally being able to enjoy myself", therefore it kind of meets the definition of "aroused by the idea of myself as fully female"

>>43271546
Yeah, it has positive emotions for me as well. I never understood how other people find it humiliating or degrading.

>>43271411
One based on root biological causes is helpful for determining treatment. People who have dysphoria due to poor estrogen reception are going to have different medical needs than people who have dysphoria due to undervirilization.

>>43271572
If someone gets off to being feminine as a humiliation thing (aka MEF), this is probably as faketrans as you can get. If you associate becoming feminine with humiliation of self, then your core self is not feminine. However, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing

>>43271601
How would that work? Would determining what type of tranny you are be helpful in determining the right HRT treatment? Honestly I feel like this approach will never be better than just trial and error, the way endos do that currently

>>43271648
It'd help with things like working around broken/overactive metabolic pathways, help with treating comorbidities like NCAH, and also more reliable diagnoses for earlier, more effective treatment.

>>43270646
blanchard is retarded and so are his studies and every one of the people who take his studies seriously in modern day, even as a bit it stopped being funny like years ago its so fucking boring theres 0 redeeming qualities about blanchardism

>>43271630
That would make ftm sissies trutrans

>>43271300
hasan lost

>>43271630
still repeating this bs

>>43270646
again, really?

we just had an agp thread yesterday

>>43270646
Transition tends to blur the lines, the typology is a bit clearer when it comes to pre-transition GD

>>43271042
maybe, but that isn't evidence of distinct etiologies. Androphilic and gynephilic trans women are different because androphilic and gynephilic males are different. The underlying etiology is the same.

>>43272697
>The underlying etiology is the same.
Which is?

>>43272731
gender dysphoria caused by abnormal neurology in regard to self-perception

>>43272742
My self-perception is that I am a man, but I still want to be a woman.

>>43272777
the self-perception area of your brain is organized to expect a female body. Your self-perception is of a male body, which is contrary to your neurology

>>43272777
"I want to be a woman" doesn't in itself imply gender dysphoria

>>43272796
So which one is it?
>>43272800
What does?

>>43272819
>So which one is it?
I don't see what your confusion is
the abnormal neurology in the self-perception area of your brain doesn't change the perception of your body, it changes your reaction to the perception

>>43272819
>What does?
"Not being a woman doesn't feel right"

>>43272835
Right, sorry for being dumb. But how can I be sure it's that?
>>43272839
Well, it sure doesn't feel right.

>>43272844
>Right, sorry for being dumb. But how can I be sure it's that?
well you can never be 100% sure
but if you want to be a woman you should transition because it'll probably make you happier than not transitioning

>>43270646
as someone who suffers from it, agp needs more research and understanding

>>43272852
I think there are other reasons someone born male might want to be female. Especially when being attracted to women as well.

>>43272865
hate to break it to you, but it probably won't get more research bc it's kind of useless and no one really wants to fund its research.

but i'm curious, what kind of questions about AGP would you expect research to answer? and how would answers to those questions change your life?

>>43272905
why am i aroused by the idea of being female? why does it make me miserable? what treatment works to cure it?

>>43270646
I'm AGP and a hon but I have a bf and I cum when he fucks me in the ass.
This debate is an immense nothingburger.

>>43273048
AGP to husstuss pipeline

>>43273071
You can't become HSTS dumdum. I'm AGP and that's okay.

>>43273076
I was agp and i became hsts. hard work pays.

>>43272928
>why am i aroused by the idea of being female?
do you need to know this in order to assess the validity on your own femininity? if research figured out that AGP has something to do with undervirilization in utero, or with repressing ones femininity at an early age, would this make you believe that "you were always supposed to be a woman" and make you feel better about yourself?
>why does it make me miserable?
idk your experience but honestly i think that the reason AGPs suffer is some sort of inner conflict? or inability to uphold a single identity? the fact that your identity splits into the masculine everyday self and the feminine sex persona and the fact that those 2 identities tend to develop independently and grow apart? also shame + sexual frustration. at least this is how I imagine AGP struggles to look like.
>what treatment works to cure it?
the way i would approach it is therapy that is oriented around letting go of the shame associated with one's sexuality and jungian-style integrating your feminine persona with your core self. in extreme cases i would give you CPA.

>>43273103
>the fact that your identity splits into the masculine everyday self and the feminine sex persona and the fact that those 2 identities tend to develop independently and grow apart? also shame + sexual frustration. at least this is how I imagine AGP struggles to look like.
This is accurate

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>>43273114
Thank you for your feedback nonanon

>>43273178
I don't think your treatment resolves the conflict, though. Sure less shame would be great. But you are still stuck with it.

>>43273103
I developed something of a female tulpa later in childhood, after facing multiple rejections from girls and rough treatment from other boys
I never really identified myself with her though, most of the time she was just there to be my ideal woman, echoing what I wanted from women
It's only recently when I started to think, what if she subconsciously was me?

Whenever I read other people talking about their AGP I feel like I don't have AGP.
Like wtf I didn't get this whole woman thing growing up I just wanna be a bit more feminine and if I pass that's cool ig but the state of my being is not dependent upon others immediately recognising me as a woman.
Desu it's more that I was never seen as a man really in the first place so leaning into that seems smarter than trying to be masculine cause even when I tried that all I got called was 'cute'. That drove me lowk insane btw.

>>43273201
You can't just "cure" AGP itself with drugs or therapy, same way you can't cure gayness. In terms of shame of your own sexuality, AGP males' confessions don't seem different at all from stories about being gay in the 70s. You have to acknowledge that the shame you're experiencing is not inherent, but shaped by society's expectations about gender and sexuality. You have to pursue a way of living where both your personas can coexist in peace, around ppl who like you the way you are.

>>43273314
You can't coexist as both. If you live as a man, people expect that from you. You could theoretically be out as a man who wants to be a woman, but that shame or ridicule would not benefit you. Or you can transition, which has its own issues. Whatever you do, it will suck. Hence the conflict.

>>43270646
HSTS/AGP has predictive value, just like IQ or big five personality traits

>>43273234
>It's only recently when I started to think, what if she subconsciously was me?
In a way she is a part of you, but what would it even mean that "she is subconsciously you"? isn't kind of a too abstract way to think about it?
in case it isn't, i came up with 2 heuristics to determine whether she's you or your image of an ideal woman

1. does she embody any negative characteristics of yours? if not, she might be just your ideal woman
2. when it comes to the feminine aspects of your core self, does she embody them too? if so, she might be a version of you