>>25211492

A Nietzschean Buddhist who denies rebirth begins with the confident claim that the Buddha offers a superior answer to hedonism precisely because he exposes pleasure as unstable, conditioned, and incapable of delivering lasting satisfaction. On this reading, craving is not merely immoral but irrational, a self-defeating loop that guarantees suffering through its own pursuit, and nirvana is reframed as the ultimate emancipation from the compulsive demand for more. Yet as the argument continues, the emphasis subtly shifts: nirvana becomes less a transcendence of desire and more a sophisticated way of choosing which desires are worth cultivating, a kind of aesthetic discipline for intensifying experience. The rejection of rebirth quietly removes the long arc of karmic consequence, and with it the urgency of liberation from cyclic existence, until suffering is no longer something to be escaped but simply another texture of life to be interpreted creatively. By the end, the Buddha has been fully repurposed into a psychologist of flourishing, and the doctrine collapses into a Nietzschean injunction to affirm existence as it is, discard inherited moral anxieties, and just live more vividly, seeking and shaping one’s own joy without metaphysical remainder or any recognizably Buddhist restraint.

>>25211498
or you could take the fast little boat and just say fuck yeah hedonism.

>>25211498
fr bro great post

>>25211492
hedonism refutes itself. seeking only pleasure destroys discipline, and you end up a fat selfish loser with no accomplishments, only living for your next dopamine hit.

>deny material pleasures in life
>so that your reward will be unimaginable pleasures in heaven
What’s the purpose here?

>>25211498
or you could take the fast little boat and just say fuck yeah hedonism.

>>25211498
fr bro great post

>>25211517
speak for yourself, fattie

>>25211517
so you're saying hedonism is philosophically right - we should maximise our pleasure through nice big accomplishments and a stable happy life - we just need to be clever about how we implement that philosophy in order not to fail at our hedonistic aims?

>>25211544
no, i'm saying that having pleasure as the highest value is short-sighted and retarded. accomplishments require discipline and consistent effort. having a healthy body requires restriction and resistance, delaying gratification. the ultimate long term pleasure (happiness) is the satisfaction that comes from a job well done.

>>25211547
the ultimate long term pleasure comes from a life as close to the one your imagined yours could be.
fuck your celibate utilitarian hierarchies

>>25211564
>the ultimate long term pleasure comes from a life as close to the one your imagined yours could be.
and if you created that life for yourself? what could that also be called? oh that's right, "a job well done."

>>25211576
no.
i dont have to buy into that notion of discipline, nor restriction, nor delayed gratification, nor the presumed utilitarian conception of a 'job well done'

i can be sickest fuck busting a nuts 12 times a day, accepting every opportunity for gratification and call that a job well done.

so we really cant take half the anons posts without the other, can we?

>>25211631
>i dont have to buy into that notion of discipline, nor restriction, nor delayed gratification, nor the presumed utilitarian conception of a 'job well done'
you can deny these things all you want, but they are realities.
>i can be sickest fuck busting a nuts 12 times a day, accepting every opportunity for gratification and call that a job well done.
and it will be false because you'll be a miserable depressed fat fuck with no love in your life.

People don't understand the most basic things about hedonism in the philosophical sense. If someone isn't maximizing his longterm pleasure, he's not an effective hedonist. Saying that hedonism leads to a painful life is a very bad argument, it's conflating the common usage of the word with the philosophical position.

For me at least, however, values seem to be primary and pleasure and pain secondary. I will try to feel good when possible, but sometimes I also choose not to maximize my pleasure for some other goal. You might think that achieving the goal will give me more pleasure, but often it doesn't and I'm aware of that.
You can also think of someone dying for another person, of course losing that person would hurt, but would it really hurt more than all the pleasure you can experience in the decades you had left?

>>25211634
>they are realities
but not on the terms you describe

> and it will be false
kek whos false bro?
standard argument made just to suit your singular conclusion

just try for a while. no one will stop you from chasing after moving targets

>>25211492
Hedonism is just a nice word for being an addict. At this point you can just skip the zonbie phase and KYS.

I've entertained being a hedonist, and I justified it by recognizing that pleasure-seeking is the primary impulse of mankind.
Even if you were to moderate it with discipline, you are still acting upon the conception that such action would lead to greater satisfaction in the long term, such as sacrificing time and labor to build a more stable foundation for a fulfilling life, rather than maximizing immediate pleasure through partying that can adversely affect your future.
But, honestly, if you could do both without consequence, you most likely would.
That said, basically all systems of belief are centralIzed around the obtaining some type of reward.
If Nirvana were an excruciating experience, or if Heaven were a never-ending church sermon, you likely wouldn't seek them, even if they composed a more fundamental reality.
So, in this sense, denial of truth becomes a rational outcome, as there would be no imperative to accept reality as it is if doing so would only lead to greater suffering. So, the virtue of acceptance becomes effectively nullified, as the perception that such an acceptance leads to greater resolve, personal strength, and therefore a heightened apprecition of reality, similar to exiting Plato's Cave, structurally deteriorates into nonsensical self-condemnation.

>>25211492
Epicurus

>>25211631
>>25211564
You're hopelessly retarded. Fuck off druggie faggot.

>>25211754
>Fuck off druggie faggot.
see?
this is the core belief being expressed by the 'job well done posters"
and likely, like any conservative, theyre probably some kind of pedo hypocrite
always are

>>25211743
you can act perfectly well with the conception that feeling good right now might be amazing even if i dont remember it and it in no way contributes to some future reward.

get yo dicks wet, bitches.

>>25211492
The bible

>>25211765
>you can act perfectly well...

For sure. I engage in instant gratification a lot, but like some other anon brought up, within a hedonistic framework, this can be irrational and self-defeating due to diminishing returns.
If I were truly to value hedonistic principles, then I would have to augment my tendency to seek pleasure with some type of formidable behavioral structure that minimizes such negative consequences, like making sure I don't stick my dick in a diseased pooner.
You can still be rationally discerning while still remaining a hedonist, since the conception that a hedonist lives in perpetual debauchery is nothing more important than a stereotype.

There is no refutation to it, so long as you end up with someone to spend your life with in the end. I’ve met a lot of people a lot of different kinds of people and I’ll tell you this, nobody wants to be alone.

>>25212069
not really related to hedonism tho, is it

>>25211517
Maximizing pleasure =\= only seeking pleasure

>>25211544
Reading books is hedonism if you enjoy it.

>>25211492
Hedonism doesn't exists. People seek pleasure in some capacity all the time with every endevour they do, to do whatever is fulfilling to them at the time.

>>25211765
Teenage girls aren't toddlers moralfag

>>25212412
TRVE

>>25212458
da fuq?

>>25211663
>it's conflating the common usage of the word with the philosophical position.
Like anarchism and egoism.

Picture of Dorian Gray.

Ooooo this thread is not good oooo