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>>25310112
the Wyl of Wyl circa 12 AC

ES6 or WoW first?

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Gregor Clegane's actions were racially motivated?

>>25309852
>the more melanine one has, the more dangerous you are
Hmmm...

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>the dornish are gay hedonists who willingly submit to female rulers
>portrayed as niggers

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>heres your sword of the morning bro

>>25310173
>>25310281
Fuck Latino representation I guess?

Has GRRM ever been asked how Sam remained a fat fuck while at the Wall?

>>25310112
With audiobookbay gone how do torrent shit?

>>25310281
What's the problem? Dorne is Spain/Portugal and these fine folk look as swarthy as Alberto Barbarossa himself.

>>25310304
>audiobookbay gone
It's not.

>>25310292
>Latino representation
It's a funny americanism when you object to black casting by suggesting either spanish speaking whites or mestizo half injuns are better casting, for what should be spaniards. It's even specifically moorish Spain so your real world counterparts would have had nafricans running around.

>>25310292
Blacks are Jews favorite minority, they’ll throw us Latinos a bone every now and then but blacks get priority

Preston getting dragged in the commetns in his most recent video brings a tear of joy to my eye.
Also Camine is trying to fuck Trey or something. Very weird vibes anytime i listen to one their vids.

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Would you sacrifice Seven Kingdoms for her? Rheagar did

>>25310654
>Lyanna had only been sixteen, a she-boon of surpassing ugliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart. Robert had loved her even more. -AGoT Eddard I

What if the Prince that was Promised isn't Azor Ahai? Maybe three heads of the dragon are the Prince, Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa

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I found an obscure overlooked character in woiaf that could be a hidden clue. There’s a storm king named Erich kin killer who killed his brother Durran after Durran fell in love with his niece, Erich’s daughter. This clearly connects with Durran Godsgrief marrying Elenei and invoking the wrath of her father the sea king, as well as the legend of Erreg kinslayer, the riverland invader who destroyed high heart
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Erich_Durrandon_(Kin-Killer)

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The three headed dragon is a version of the triple goddess. They were the gods of the ancient matriarchal civilizations like the fisher queens, and the original faith of the Valyrians before converting to fire and blood worship. Faith of the seven branches off from it, and some essosi still worship them as three headed god trios of tyrosh.
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Trios

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Song of ice and fire is about modern americans in medieval fantasy, there is nothing historical about it. All the characters think and act like mid/late 20th century americans since this is the only thing martin knew.

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>>25310853

>>25310829
Azor Ahai/Hugor of the hill had a wife with deep blue eyes. this blue eyed maid is where the blue eyes of the durrandons come from. Hugors brother was Durran, and they invaded Westeros together, mirroring Aegon and orys. Hugors daughter with the blue eyed maid falls in love with Durran and this causes Durran and Azor ahai to war against each other, and the legend of elenei Durran and the sea god is born.

>>25310302
He hasn't been there that long. The fat will melt off him eventually due to a lack of excess food.

Bros, I know this question probably doesn't belong here but I'll ask anyway since it's driving me crazy. What would be a good region name for the southern half (Hornhill, Brightwater, Hightower, Arbor) of the reach if it was split in two? I already got Mander for the North. I am so creatively bankrupt that I'm on the verge of just calling it Southmarch.

>>25311066
The oasis

>>25311066
The arse

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This little Forrest in the westerlands doesn’t have a name
What’s a good one for it?

Inb4 the mad king is a dindu nuffin innocent victim who was forced into madness by evil chud schemers

Why do people compare faith of the seven to Christianity when they’re not even remotely similar. The seven is like some astrology archetype worship shit, it’s completely its own thing

>>25311354
probably because gurm straight up said the faith of the seven is analogous to the catholic church

>>25311361
But it’s not, which is why I’m confused

>>25311364
well you don't have to agree with him but he did say that and that's why it happens
if it helps i believe he meant the role of the church in society, not the actual cosmology and shit

>>25311364
its not because he is a fucking retard, not because he wasnt trying to portray it so. It mimics hierarchy of the christian church and some parts of theology but the head figure is weak and powerless, just like in the 20th century, that martin was actually depicting.

>>25311354
you probably think that its polytheistic ie has many gods. No, those are just aspects like in the christian holy trinity: father, son and the holy spirit. There is one god in the church of seven, divided in 7 parts.

Are there any cultural differences between The Westerlands and The Reach? They seem like the provinces most similar to one another.

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>>25311145

That's Crakehall Forest.

>>25310654
>Lyanna looks like some half-Summer Islander rape baby
grim

>>25310860
Very true, based clanker.

>>25309898
>whereby diversity = black people (even though they have 10x as many Indians and Pakis)

Blacks in Britain are 8% of the population.

Middle-Easterners are 2,1%.

You are retarded.

>>25311487
The Boarest

>>25311521
im pretty sure indians and pakis are put under the asian category, brotha

Every infant born beneath the bleeding star has some kind of powers now and live longer

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>>25310302
The show's actor has. What he said boiled down to
>hurr durrr it's a show about dragons, who cares?

>>25311619
>hurr durrr it's a show about dragons, who cares?
Another rephrasing of the "space wizards" canard, which basically says: if you tell a story in a fantastic setting, then you no longer have to tell a good story. It's completely wrong, as well as lazy and dishonest. Proper storytelling is always fundamental, no matter how mundane or extraordinary the setting.

I've read dunk and egg but not asoiaf.
What's the main series like? Is it more detailed or vivid? More poetic?

>>25312015
I don't know how it differs because I never read dunk and egg

>>25311487
>no relevant settlement at the mouth of the Mander
bravo george

After mulling it over I don’t thing the empire of the dawn is actually that relevant to the history and lore of Asoiaf

>>25312015
There's a lot of parallels in the stories of Dunk and Egg with things going on in the ASOIAF story. But moreover the main difference is that the main series is a lot larger scale and with greater stakes. D&E is more self-contained and grounded. ASOIAF is a rube goldberg machine where you're interested in seeing how all of the characters' ambitions, strengths, and flaws will interact with one another. What's so good about it is that there is a logic to the world and you can follow that logic to its conclusion, whether that's a character's victory or death. You might not see it coming, but looking back it always feels inevitable and earned.

The issue with why it isn't finished is related to the Rube Goldberg machine getting too big. You have the first 3 books, but then Books 4 and 5 are both direct sequels to Book 3- each one having a different set of PoV characters, with Book 5 ending with some of the final chapters of the Book 4 PoVs when Book 5 catches up with the timeline of Book 4. So going into The Winds of Winter, he's trying to write a sequel to two books but make it fit into one, and then end the entire series in book 7.

>bittersteel
>bloodraven
BlazeIron
Thundersnake
AcidFist
Darkskull

>>25310788
Jon is TPTWP and dany is azor ahai that's pretty obvious and if it turns out azor ahai reborn need its own nissa nissa to end long night again it'll probably also be jon's role to become dany's nissa nissa

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SPEAKING OF CORNY NAMES, AZOR AHAI HAS ONE TOO. YES ITS TRUE HEAR MY REVELATION, FOR IN FACT AZORS REAL NAME IS BLADEHEART. YES ITS TRUE, THE MEANING OF HIS NAME IN HIS NATIVE LANGUAGE IS BLADEHEART. ITS A PRIMITIVE TRIBAL NAME LIKE BRAVEHEART, ENCAPSULATING HIS SAVAGE NATURE AND WARRIOR SPIRIT, AND ALSO POETICALLY FORESHADOWING HIS FUTURE, AND FITTING IN AESTHETICALLY WITH NAMES LIKE BITTERSTEEL AND BLOODRAVEN, THESE LARGER THAN LIFE DEMIGOD-LIKE CHARACTERS WHOS NAMES COMPOSE OF TWO WORDS COMBINED, START WITH B AND ARE EDGY SOUNDING

>>25310788
We already discussed this in the previous thread
You're confusing Azor Ahai and Azor Ahai Reborn.
The first refers to the Last Hero, Nissa's sacrifice corresponds to the forging of dragonsteel
The second, Azor Ahai Reborn, is the prophecy of the prince that was promised, born amidst salt and smoke etc., no Nissa Nissa

>>25312859
Azor ahai reborn was rhaego, mirri severed the thread of fate and prophecy with blood magic but birthed dragons as an unintended consequence

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theon will warg one of ramsay's hounds, paralleling the beginning of Reek I

>>25312923
*and eat him

How did magic users settle disputes in the past?

Every single instance of attack magic we have seen is overwhelmingly effective. Blowing up heads and spontaneous combustions and impervious shadow assassins.

Were wizards all hunkering down in magically fortified bunkers or something?

>>25312958
magic doesnt exist

>>25312958
In 300 AC, there's been a lengthy drought of magic, but now it's returning to the world with the birth of Dany's dragons. Thus, most people are not properly warded and taken off-guard by the newly powerful spells.
Presumably, in times of stronger magic, there were defensive spells to balance out the offensive, because that's how warfare works.

>>25312437
I wonder if Azor Ahai warged into his hrakkar/white lion? that'd be cool.
also, there's a noticeable similarity between Hyrkoon & hrakkar.

>>25312923
True. But sadly, it will be because Ramsay skins Rickon and makes Theon wear it as a cloak to torment him after he’s recaptured, but wearing the skin of a warg gives you warg powers and Theon will warg Ramsay’s hounds and eat Ramsay

>>25312994
>there's a noticeable similarity between Hyrkoon & Hrakkar
Yes, Hyrkoon comes from the same root word, azors nickname was the white lion.

And if I were a linguist I would make it so the original name in azors language for white lion was “Hrakkorn”. From this root word we can see how Hrakkorn can easily turn into Hrakkar, Hyrkoon, and Hukko

And then if you want to get crazy, through some ironborn/hightower/azor ahai connection, this name can still be seen in the iron born culture
Hrakkorn becomes the ironborn names Hakkon and Craghorn
and also becomes Krakken, perhaps originally meaning sea lion, as lions are the greatest beasts of the great grass sea, the krakken is the lion of the true sea.
George uses the nickname “the sea lion” twice for Hightower/ironborn adjacent historical characters. Lymond Hightower the sea lion, who fortified oldtown against ironborn raiders, and Leo Costayne the sea lion who was slain by ironborn raider Arthur Goodbrother

>>25312437
>>25313106
Welp im convinced. GRRM hinting at Azor Ahai true name through, at the time, random side plot of Drogo hunting a white lion is so fucking god. I also thought Horah Louxs name was a bit random and weird in Elden Ring but its makes sense when used like this.
Now I'm small brained so can you say whether Azor Ahai/ BladeHeart was the Bloodstone Emperor? I feel like there's many hints Azor Ahai and the evil Emperor of the Empire of the Dawn are one in the same

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>>25313022
>Ramsay skins Rickon and makes Theon wear it as a cloak
That's fucked and great. Problem is no time skip wearing a 4-5 year old would be like a small hood for an adult man and not a cloak. Also a bit unclimatic for Rickon who is like the ancient Warg kings of old, raised on an Island of cannibals and unicorns. Also the whole dragon cannibal is probably there and Cannibal (dragon) is black with Green eyes just like shaggydog which is a bizzare and specific look and makes me think that Rickon will warg or tame a dragon to be a new horror to the world. A warg boy-king first man that can ride a dragon that leads an army of cannibals. Pity hes not 10 like the timeskip but 5.

Rickon isn't part Valyrian so its not bloodmagic that allows him to ride the dragon so maybe the lemur theory is like the process of creating a warg like bloodline out of a non one and Rickon being a warg lets him bypass needing a Valyrian ancestor spirit in the dragon

>>25313022
Delightfully grizzly but i doubt will actually happen. The timeline logistics of Rickon's location being revealed then him ending up in Bolton hands to be flayed doesnt really work since Boltons really need to be on the way out as the main baddies for the Others conflict to have enough time to come to fruition (plus would leave a huge unfired Chekhov with all the cool Rickon stuff). Also highly doubt Ramsay will recapture Theon, his arc needs to start climbing back up or it will just be redundant misery porn (though that hasnt stopped grrm before). Euron had the whole talk of flying dreams, it is possible Greyjoys have some magic/skinchanger blood (maybe from the Grey King's mermaid idk), Theon could legitimately have the ability, bran could open his third eye or whatever at the weirwood. Also it would be neat for grrm's statement of "all the stark children" being skinchangers to end up including Theon, making him a true stark. In the Theon winds chapter he seems to fixate on when he and Jeyne jumped from Winterfell and says "we flew" multiple times, which parallels when Euron said something like "how can we know if we can fly unless we jump from some tall tower". He spends a lot of time in darkness as well, which the FM do so Arya can tap into her skinchanging (plus make her lose her identity, similarly). The dance prologue also talks about how dogs are the easiest animals to skinchange, easier than wolves, and yet we really dont see many key characters doing so, then Theon spends a bunch of the book getting closely bonded with Ramsay's bitches (even being treated as a dog himself).

My guess is if Ramsay comes to the battle Theon would end up doing it reflexively to protect Asha from the dogs, and end up turning the pack back on him. Obviously also neat that the dogs' names are all victims, and Ramsay's own degradation and dehumanisation of Theon causing the ability to come about.

Also the idea of Theon having a dog dream where he wakes up back in the kennels at winterfell among the other hounds and thinks he's been recaptured would be quite funny.

>>25313214
I think they’re connected. I think the true story behind it all was azor ahai was influenced by the meteoric gems he used for his crown, there was some kind of malevolent extraterrestrial intelligence in them. The BE Worshipped a falling star and then demanded sacrifice and started the starry wisdom cult. The seven pulled down falling stars for the crown hugor of the hill and then he sacrificed women. I think this motif is inspired by marvels Ullysses Bloodstone, where a lovecraftian entity comes down on a falling star back in the Stone Age and seeks a host to take over the world with, granting him special powers. I think azor started as a simple tribal chieftain bloodheart and then came across the blood stones and the rest is history, he conquered everything, including the ancestors of yiti

>>25313410
Bladeheart*

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>>25313410
I also think he lost his crown in a naval battle in his later years, and the entity is now at the bottom of the sea

you know what, I'm starting to believe the theory jon and dany are actually twins and that's why there's so many hints to both of them being azor ahair, because AA's souls got split between both of them at birth which would also explain this magic connection they have to the point dany dreams with him and senses his death
and let's be honest, grrm probably finds accidental brother/sister incest hotter than accidental aunt/nephew incest

>>25311066
How about the honeywine? It's symmetric to the Mander

>>25311521
>Blacks in Britain are 8% of the population
Why lie about something that is easily verifiable?

>>25313530
You're right, I was incorrect.

>In the 2021/2022 Census, the Black population in the United Kingdom was approximately 3.7% (2,485,724 people).

As a new reader, I'm understanding that stopping at A Storm of Swords sounds like a good idea, what do you guys think?

>>25313601
>what do you guys think?
Don't start reading a series that will never be finished.

Jonsa status?

Euron won't raise a squid like we all think but he's going to down one of the dragons using some artillery weapon then raise it from the depths of the ocean as a wight under his command by blowing the dragon binder once it surfaces

Reminder that most of the show's shitty ideas actually came from GRRM.

>>25313601
Anyone telling you that is a retard. If you're gonna read it, be prepared for winds. Feast and dance set up important conflicts that are going to be happening that are actually unique to the books.

>>25313987
>be prepared for winds

>>25313881
He could raise a squid that downs one of the dragons as they cross the sea. Then it raises back up as a drowned dragon.

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>>25312437
>>25313106
>>25313214
Azor Ahai is already a name, a name from the cult of R'hllor, it has no secret identity
>>25313410
>>25313511
Jesus Christ... what books are you reading? Apart from the murder of a woman (one killed his sister to steal her throne and the other killed his wife to forge a sword), their stories have nothing in common
There will be no soul of a warrior named Azor Ahai sent by a God of Fire to possess a character in order to save the world

>>25314120

>Azor Ahai is already a name, a name from the cult of R'hllor, it has no secret identity

Names mean things, it’s not just random vowels and consonants

>geotd theories
I don’t think geotd is that relevant, but I think the falling star with corrupting influence is, George likes to pull from book of revelations
>There will be no soul of a warrior named Azor Ahai sent by a God of Fire to possess a character in order to save the world
True azor ahai was just some ancient warrior who made a big splash in history and was the main character and modern characters mirror him aesthetically

I'm finally reading back through this series again, and I'm wondering, is there any chance the winds of winter will be good?
I'm not optimistic about any major hiatus in the development of a long-running series, especially if its accompanied by massive amounts of feedback by audiences.

Probably not the best comparison, but something similar happened with Kotaru Uchikoshi and the Zero Escape games. There was a big hiatus after the second game in the series and when the final game was made he had changed a bunch of the story he originally planned and tried to appeal to the western fanbase he grew overseas.

I can't help but feel like Winds of Winter and/or the final book will just be the Zero Time Dilemma of the ASOIAF series

>>25314135
What does dany do when she sees red comet? She sacrifices a woman

Rickon bringing jon cannibal would be cool as fuck. Then when he kills Danny it would be on dragonback

>>25314135
>Names mean things, it’s not just random vowels and consonants
Lot of them aren't important
Azor Ahai has no meaning because the character itself is irrelevant
>I don’t think geotd is that relevant, but I think the falling star with corrupting influence is, George likes to pull from book of revelations
It's just another Lovecraft reference: The Haunter of the Dark
In that story you have the Church of Starry Wisdom, a cult that worships a rock from outer space, black with red veins (a bloodstone...) and makes sacrifices to a sinister god
>True azor ahai was just some ancient warrior who made a big splash in history and was the main character and modern characters mirror him aesthetically
True Azor Ahai was the Last Hero, that's why we don't have a name and won't have one, it's so ancient that it doesn't matter

>>25314135
>azor ahai was just some ancient warrior who made a big splash in history and was the main character
The Dothraki say the more fiercely a man burned in life the brighter his star burns in the night sky. If that’s true then azor ahai was the morning star, lightbringer(burned brightest means killed the most people, conquered the most cities, fathered the most sons, influenced the most cultures, fucked the most women)

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>>25314202
Yes it is true, azor is what we today would consider to be a bad guy, but for his time he was the epitome of what it means to be a hero, obtaining ultimate glory and renown

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jon and dany are meant to be a genderbent version of the night king and his corpse wife right ?

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>>25313560
>In the 2021/2022 Census, the Black population in the United Kingdom was approximately 3.7%

And yet literally every British tv show has Blacks everywhere.

>>25314219
You know what's funny? That conan quote
>Crush your enemies hear thier women cry
was made by retwirtting a fuckng Ghengis quote, (Chinggish was the real title but whatever)
When asking what the greatest pleasure in life is, and his generals said shit like riding, hawking, fucking etc
>You have all spoken well, but a mans greatest pleasure is to defeat his enemies, to uproot them, to take all that they posses, to make their women weep so their tears run down their nosesm to ride their horses and to embrace their beatiful ladies

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>>25311066
Wynelands

This place is way more dead than when I was here last year. Anyway, I was playing Sultan's Game and I think something like that with an ASOIAF skin could work much better than any of the official games we got.

>>25315865
Im waiting for the eu5 total conversion mod (hopefully someone will make it)

>>25315915
My problem with that type of games is that they don't have any plot.

>>25315865
when does the hotd season come out?

Why did Bran the Builder make the Wall that's supposed to defend against the Others out of ice instead of obsidian? first men iq?

>>25316257
Did it work or not?

File: A Lannister Pays his Debts.png (3.7 MB)

>>25313526
The first couple times I repeatedly vocalized Lord of the Honeywine I recoiled as it sounds awkward unlike the Trident or Mander. But since I changed the title to Lord Marshal it sounds a bit better in my head.
>>25315576
Too connected to a single family (Redwyne) in the modern asoiaf age. Funny that you linked that mod, I'm planning to steal and modify the March government for the modern age and force it on the Mander and Honeywine like I did for the Westerlands (I just wanted to steal the Icon and frame graphics). Placed a forced contract on Martyn to get reparations and then slashed his liege levy troops in half as a temporary punishment for House Lannister.

Unfortunately I didn't get a justifiable roleplay reason to partition the Reach with Title Manager post AFFC since I blitzkrieged King's Landing before Mace dealt with Euron's invasion and I even had the aid of the High Sparrow with his 20k Warrior's Sons/Poor Fellow stack

>>25315865
Mmm Sultan's Game is a unity game so moding is ridiculously easy. If anyone here is autistic enough to write a branched fanfic that can be adapted into the game just let me know and I'll make the mod.

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>>25316257
The Wall is made of ice because ice magic was used to construct it. Who uses ice magic? The Others. The Wall is part of a peace agreement to have a definitive line between human land and non-human land. Most of the people were aganist the Others but the powers that be agreed to send human sacrifices, usually infants, to the Others. hence the Black gate, a secret talking Weirwood door to take babies north of the wall to keep the Others, who are just sprities kicked out of their weirwoodnet/hivemind happy. Putting the Others back in the Heart of Winter, a frozen Weirwood tree where Azor Ahai/ BladeHeart/ Hugor of the Hill,a greenseer entred the Weirwood net and got trapped or purposefully transfered his concious into the weirwood net for whatever reason kicking the previous hivemind out, creating the Others (who need blood sacrifces to manifest). Killing an Other doesnt reduce their numbers they just need more blood magic to create the Ice spirit manifestation

>>25316272
No. It's going to be destroyed like three years after the Others decided to start shit again.

>>25316257
Cause ice is abundant and easy to maintain in a cold environment whereas there's no way to get the millions of tons of obsidian required to make the wall.
Also why would obsidian even be a good material? It's canonically pretty brittle.

>reading Sansa POV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgmh0BjLKVM

>>25316114
June 21

We'll probably see a uptick in discussion though most of it will be on the /tv/ thread.

Only George's death can bring us Winds at this rate. The 15 year anniversary of ADWD's release is in 40 days.

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>>25317471
sansa would give you the most retarded children ever

>>25317481
All I need is the Battle for Winterfell with Bolton and Frey heads on pikes and I'll be happy.

>>25317488
Nah, after everything she's been through she will mature and shed her naivety. Sandor and girl-beating knights of the Kingsguard helped with that.

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> Lord Tywin Lannister, the Hand of the King, reinstates Boros to the Kingsguard upon his return, to fill the vacancy left by Sandor Clegane when the Hound deserted during the Blackwater
WTF Tywin

>>25317564
Boros is loyal and unscrupulous - a perfect lackey as far as the Child-Killer is concerned.

>>25317156
>Will be
Hasn't yet and its held all this time

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>>25317568
Yeah, but the thing is, he's also a coward tasked with protecting his daughter and grandchildren. You would think there would be someone more capable in Tywin's court. Kingsguard vaccancy could be used to buy loyalty someone more important than the house fucking Blount.

>>25317589
Loyalty and ruthlessness are the only two traits Twyin cares for in a lackey. Their flaws don't matter as long as they obey him without question. Cersei disagreed, but her opinion is beneath that of the HOTK.

>>25317562
>"I was going to have Sansa die, but she’s been so appealing in the show, maybe I’ll let her live …”
It's over. Grrm cares more about Sophie Turner than his own brainchild.

Canonically, who is the best girl in Westeros?

>>25317977
Out of the ones we know, Catherine is objectively the best by a mile. You can argue about Jeyne Westerling and some others but we don't really know a lot about them.

>>25317977
Current age? Brienne. Overall? Queen Visenya.

Boros Blount redemption arc and made into pov character please George

>On Catelyn’s own wedding night, Jory Cassell had torn her gown in his haste to get her out of it, and drunken Desmond Grell kept apologizing for every bawdy joke, only to make another. When Lord Dustin had beheld her naked, he’d told Ned that her breasts were enough to make him wish he’d never been weaned.

What the fuck is wrong with W*sterosi?

>>25317078
Trvthnvke

>>25318375
Blame GRRM for inserting cuckshit into marriage rituals. He could've just settled for having cuckoldry everywhere, but no, he had to compromise marriages in Westeros with this weird shit too.
Imagine being a lord and allowing men to strip and fondle your wife instead of killing them.

>>25318375
Martin is a bitter cuck.

>>25318375
how it started
>responsible parties would watch the bride and groom have sex to assure the marriage was consumated, the bride bled like a proper virgin, and the groom finished inside of her
how it's going
>BEGIN THE BEDDING CEREMONY, REEK. NOW START LICKING HER FOR ME.

>>25317488
I've already been over this in a previous thread: if you read between the lines, Sansa is provably quite intelligent. It's just that, between being a naive 12 year old in the first book, and other characters calling her dumb, it's easy to overlook this.

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>>25317995
>Catherine

>>25318903
I had a brain fart

>>25319251
Did you mean Catelyn Tully?

>>25319296
Yep...

The bedding ceremony was only made for the benefit of perverts. There are better ways to confirm if sex happened.

>>25319933
Just martin being a perv like usual. It doesn't even make sense for a relatively chaste culture like Westeros.

>>25320002
>relatively chaste culture like Westeros
What? It's acknowledged even highborn men father bastards, soldiers are often given free reign to rape, the common girls are sucking and fucking anyone who isn't their family, prostitution is legal and barely frowned upon. "Chaste." What are you smoking? Westeros is basically sodom. They just don't want highborn girls to have a bodycount before they're married off so they can be sure of the paternity of their children.

>>25320214
Chaste for women. They look down on prostitutes like everyone else. It's the same for common woman. Plebians just don't have the means to control their women or enforce punishment.

>>25320280
>Plebians just don't have the means to control their women or enforce punishment.
A lord's not going to intervene if you beat your wife

>>25318670
>now fetch me the dogs!

>>25320292
We are talking about chastity, not cheating. A noble daughter doesn't touch grass very often and has a retinue of maids trailing behind her at all times. A random young peasant woman needs to go out alone and interact with men out of day to day necessity. And the father cannot do much more to punish her than give her a beating. He has to help her find a husband unless he wants to have her in his house for the rest of their life.

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>>25317078
>Putting the Others back in the Heart of Winter, a frozen Weirwood tree where Azor Ahai/ BladeHeart/ Hugor of the Hill,a greenseer entred the Weirwood net and got trapped or purposefully transfered his concious into the weirwood net for whatever reason kicking the previous hivemind out, creating the Others

Bladeheart is strapped to the heart of winter tree and a cursed obsidian blade is thrust into his heart. The children do this ritual to desoul him and install greenseer spirits from the weirnet into his body to create a charismatic puppet leader that men respect and defer to that can influence men to stop burning weirwoods and conquering the children’s lands and return to Essos. The ritual goes wrong in some way, the spirits are corrupted by inhabiting that vessel and take on a more vengeful purpose creating the others. The show version of the origins of the night king I suspect come somewhat from George, who creates important plot lines by thinking in tableaus composed of and connected by symbolism and then gardening a plot path to that destination.
Producer: “George how did the others come to be”.
George: “I have an image in my head but not all the details, I know that an invader from across the sea (his azor ahai character that he keeps mysterious to keep his legend cool) is strapped to a weirwood and an obsidian blade is thrust into his heart in a ritual that creates the others.”

His name is Bladeheart, his story is one about sacrifice and war. He is fire made flesh, burning bright and fierce. He is sacrificed with a blade through the heart, and his fire is frozen, by a blade of frozen fire in the heart of winter. It’s the perfect thematic fate for him
And that’s why in the storyboard the man is described as an Andal, because George told them the night king was originally an invader from across the narrow sea, but didn’t give much more detail so the showriters just said he’s Andal

>>25320375
First 3 visions of dany in the house of undying is the arc of azor ahai

House of the undying as history
1. A tall lord with copper-skin and silver-gold hair beneath a banner of a fiery stallion, with a burning city in the background (conquest of the grasslands arc).
2. A dying prince (he’s a prince because he was the son of a fisher queen, and maybe also the prince who was promised) mutters a woman's name with his last breath, rubies flying from his chest. (Azor muttering nissas name as he’s sacrificed by the cotf, the obsidian blade stabbing his heart causing “rubies” of blood
3. A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand. (Otherized azor, the first white walker)

I started reading Leaf by Niggle, by JRR Tolkien.

There is no possible way on earth that Niggle, the protagonist, is NOT George R.R. Martin and Leaf, is NOT ASOIAF. The story is about a painter who can't stop continually expanding on his magnum opus painting and finish it so he can move on with his life, to the point that he has terrible anxiety about finishing it.

I hope I don't embarrass myself by having to delete this post after I finish reading the short story since I'm preemptively posting this before completing it (it's 20 pages)

In adwd dany has a dream where she's sleeping with a man with blue lips but when he puts his dick in her it's cold as ice which makes her wake up scared
at first one might think that's euron playing magic tricks on dany because of the blue lips but after thinking about it for a while, ain't this likely to be Jon ?
>corpses have blue lips as well and jon is a dead body
>characters that get stabbed always says the blade feels cold as ice
So is fatman kinda hinting here dany will expect love from jon but he will ultimately end up stabbing her ? (pretty much like what happened in the show)

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>>25320379
That's sick, I've never considered those visions being for multiple characters , i thought it was just
>her son if he lived
>Rhaegar
>Jon as Azor Ahai
All three acting as visions of the life and death and undeath of Bladeheart/Hugor of the Hill/ the real Azor Ahai is SO FUCKING COOL. I was already sold on Bladeheart being his name but now im more convinced.
Hoarah Loux being his stand in is fascinating. I have to ask what does Sherosh represent/stand in for BladeHeart. Or as I have seen others say the 'regal beast' representes irl Royal Heraldry which is how murderious imperialists expansionts use 'legitimacy and nobility' to justify their crimes
>>25320643
I'm pretty sure when that was written GRRM was implying Euron and maybe a cool double entendre with Jon as you say, but now its seems like its foreshadowing her marriage to Victarion. Victarion getting the most beatiful woman as a wife (for a short time) will be a surprise to everyone but him. GRRM has tried to kill off Victarion but hes still around and one of the most magical POVs we have

>>25313601
don't pick it up until the fatman announces TWOW release.

>>25313601
If you're enjoying it, read it all then move on with your life. If winds gets announced you can consider a reread.

>>25320214
> What are you smoking? Westeros is basically sodom.
Kek

>>25320375
> Producer: “George how did the others come to be”.
> George: “I have an image in my head but not all the details, I know that an invader from across the sea (his azor ahai character that he keeps mysterious to keep his legend cool) is strapped to a weirwood and an obsidian blade is thrust into his heart in a ritual that creates the others.”
Never happened.

>>25320643
100%. There was an earlier draft of ADWD that made what you said here more explicit.

>>25320764
you think showrunners made that whole obsidian through the heart thing and it didn’t come from George? Idk maybe, it seems pretty specific though, as if George told them the details of that scene directly

>>25320776
do you think the showrunners told Cersei to stand at the neck and Jaime to stand at the fingers when they did that world map scene in season 7?

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What's your bastard surnames ranking?

For me it's Storm > Snow > Rivers > Waters > Stone > Pyke > Sand > Hill > Flowers

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>>25320776
>you think showrunners made that whole obsidian through the heart thing and it didn’t come from George?

Indeed, Dumb & Dumber are simply too stupid to have thought of that themselves and the Others and magical bio-weapons fits GRRM's hippy boomer no-nukes mentality.

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>>25320878
I think the only cool imagey Dumb and dumber came up with was the galaxy/spiral imagery the Others put the corpses into. And we can say it was their idea because nothing like that is in the books and more importantly because it led to nothing

>>25320214
>soldiers are often given free reign to rape
>prostitution is legal and barely frowned upon
That's not Sodom. Those things have been the norm for most of human history, until fairly recently.

>>25320214
>common girls are sucking and fucking anyone
What smut material did you mistake for ASOIAF? The only commoners the readers sees slutting it up are camp followers (a nice term for whore). Slut wives get beaten to death by their husbands and daughters are not ruining their chances for marriage and shaming their families by being a slut in any significant number.

>>25320853
Snow Waters Sand Pyke Stone Hill Flowers Storm

How many dicks do you think Dany is going to take before Jon?

>>25321137
No more than Dario. Hizdahr will die. She'll break up with Dario.

>>25321098
NTA, but I also remember the few female smallfolk characters being rather slutty. There's Pretty Pia, Mya Stone, some thots that fucked the Brotherhood members in ASOS, Old Nan (she fucked Dunkan the Tall), some thot fucked by Theon etc. Also remeber Arya spending time with some fishmonger girl in Braavos, and it was mentioned that she let some boy touch her boobs or something. And that's not counting the literal whores, which are many.

>>25321384
>she let some boy touch her boobs or something
Arya? I don't remmeber that.
Honestly you can't convince me that Martin isn't a degenerate.

>>25321406
Not Arya, the Braavosi fishmonger girl. I might be mistaken though, it's been years since I last read it, and I'm not gonna do another reread until TWOW is announced.

>>25321414
Yeah I think I would have remembered. Until that cursed TWOW preview the most sexual thing Arya had done in the books was getting spanked by Yoren. Probably the only PoV character who can say that.

>>25321384
>few
Yes a few. Exceptions don't make the rule.
>Pia
Yeah she's a slut for knights.
>Mya Stone
False, she only slept with the Redfort boy she has a crush on.
>BWB
That was just one noble lady that had past relations with one of the members.
>Arya
False. Do a reread before making false statements.
>whores
There are whores on page because a POV character (Tyrion) is indulging in whores whether in the city or an encampment.

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Think I'll write a fanfic, since the fat guy isn't writing anymore

>>25321530
About what?

>>25321515
This. Notice who most of these are common women sleeping with someone above their rank like knights or nobles.

>>25320892
>I think the only cool imagery Dumb and dumber came up with was the galaxy/spiral imagery the Others put the corpses into.

And even that probably came from some random production assistant.

I still find it astounding that those two talentless no-track-record hacks were handed the reins to a multi-million dollar tv series.

>>25320853
The bastard name thing really seems like it should be something that came down from the Iron Throne on all the kingdoms instead of somehow arising naturally all over the continent centuries/millennia ago. Did this practice exist back when there were dozens of petty kingdoms, too? Did they have dozens of bastard names? lol

>>25321530
ok preston

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What are his feats?

>>25321515
>False, she only slept with the Redfort boy she has a crush on.
>That was just one noble lady that had past relations with one of the members.
Sluts all.

>Yes a few. Exceptions don't make the rule.
How many named lowborn Westerosi women are NOT sluts? Maybe Masha Heddle and...?

>>25321866
>How many named lowborn Westerosi women are NOT sluts? Maybe Masha Heddle and...?
Myrcella :^)

>>25321866
How many do we even know? We view most of them through the lens of the most powerful men in the continent who can obviously pull any woman they want and are surrounded by degeneracy.

>>25321137
likely none, even if daario survives the battle she'll likely break up with him and leave him in essos and I don't see her being into vic (mainly if he ends up killing daario)
I think however there will be some love triangle between jon, dany and val (like what we got in the show with jon, dany and sansa)

>>25321435
>Until that cursed TWOW preview the most sexual thing Arya had done in the books was getting spanked by Yoren.
when did this happen?
and yes, I know I'm wrong for getting turned on by the thought of this, but I can't help it desu.

>>25320379
>>25320664
That is really cool. I too assumed the first two were Rhaego and Rhaegar, respectively. It's fitting that there's a much different meaning under the surface.

and yes, Victarion is cool.

>>25322332
>and yes, I know I'm wrong for getting turned on by the thought of this, but I can't help it desu.
He did it with a rod though. Kind of gay and lame.

I sort of got back into ASoIAF for a bit but then I realized it is quite possibly the most boring fantasy world ever created, and George's virtues as a storyteller cannot make up for his bizarre efforts to larp as a worldbuilder on Tolkien's level. See you nerds later.

>>25322387
We know all that THOUGH

>ASOIAF youtubers so starved for content they just stream themselves reading chapters because everyone's too lazy to copyright strike them

I don't get it though. Who's watching this?

>>25322387
this but in reverse

>>25322398
Me. Having streamers read GRRM's shitty sex scenes seriously is funny

>>25322408
oh, in that case I have a video for you because he just got to Catelyn I (the first sex scene in the book) and it was recommended to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZpdrUouruY

I haven't watched it myself though

>>25320379
4chan just mogged every theorytuber holy shit that’s gold

Thoughts on the Wheel of Time?

>>25321643
David Benioff did write City of Theives, which I've heard an anon describe as better than anything Martin ever wrote

>>25322665
The mainstream book theories are

>R+L = J
>Pate is Jaqen H'gar
>Alleras = Sarella
>Robert Strong = The Mountain
>Aegon Blackfyre

I'd put maester conspiracy in there because it's spelled out by both Lady Dustin and Archmaester Marwin, but I think the deeper levels of that theory (Maesters did the dance) are not mainstream. It's probably the next most accessible theory to anyone who's read the books.

>>25322678
fuckin show watchers know R+L=J

>>25322680
And? Jon's parentage hasn't been officially revealed in the books.

>>25313601
Read to A Feast for Crows, its the best one and its basically a spinoff book about Brienne anyways.

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>>25313601
>As a new reader, I'm understanding that stopping sounds like a good idea

Is your time SO valuable that you can't read a few books?

Was Ygritte autistic? The "you know nothing" line seemed like a verbal tick.

>>25323127
I think she was just supposed to be pretty stupid, in a hillbilly kind of way

>>25322338
That really does ruin it. If Arya had been bent over and spanked red, I would've definitely remembered that lol

>>25322678
For all those mainstream theories, there's clear hints in the books that an attentive reader can pick up on.

>>25323127
I think it was her way of telling off Jon for being inexperienced. also, tic*

I finished A Storm of Swords a while ago and am looking to get back into the series.
Is it worth using the Boiled Leather combined reading order for a first-time reader?

The reading order in question:
https://boiledleather.tumblr.com/post/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a

Despite being a shitlib, GRRM actually respects the industry and genre. He idolizes a lot of mid to late 20th century sci fi writers, particularly of the new wave, and I share his admiration. Those guys were the greats and GRRM could talk endlessly about random stories involving them. It was such an interesting era, that I just really share his enthusiasm.

GRRM was also attacked for this quality after hosting the 2020 Hugos. The modern sci fi authors have no regard for these people. Instead of viewing themselves as coming from the same lineage of sci fi authors, they view themselves as having replaced an extremely problematic genre with something different and better.

You may blame GRRM for siding against sad puppies, but they are really the other side of the same coin. While the woksters would nominate books about running a coffeshop with your orc lesbian lover, the right would nominate star wars books that you should have grown out of after 10 years old. There are anti art culture warriors on the left and the right, and no one seems to care about the quality of art anymore.

>>25323499
Hmm yes quite

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Yeah so I’m definitely thinking lightbringer was an arakh now. Notice how night king uses an ice arakh in the show? And the fact that azor ahai was a Dothraki type raider character from the grasslands, It would make sense lightbringer was a glowing red curved arakh. That’s a cool unique sword right there. I think his father was a Horselord king from the “kingdom of the centaurs”, a horselord culture stretching from the mother of mountains to the cold northern foothills of the bone mountains, that later influenced Dothraki and jogos nhai steppe raider cultures. Their stand ins would be the Kaiden raiders from Elden ring, horse raiders from the north who use great curved swords

>>25323736
GRRM loves feminist sci-fi. Quit dickriding.

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>>25323749
Its amazing how many secrets of ASOIAF are just in the open in Elden Ring. The super magical tree having a living being inside I think is another big clue for the nature of the Heart of Winter/Weirwood trees. Instead of some golden beast thing its a hivemind of Azor Ahai and 12 of his 13 undead greenseer companions who were nightswatchmen. Cold Hands is the only one that isn't trapped in the weirwoodnet.

>lightbringer was a glowing red curved arakh
There's a single Valyrian steel arakh as well. Wonder if that was the lightbringer, the first Valyriansteel sword ever made, and people figured out human sacrifce/blod magic element of it to make more. The Sword of Morning obvs predates it but thats literally made from the moon that fell to the Earth as a comet

>>25324543
>Its amazing how many secrets of ASOIAF are just in the open in Elden Ring
Yes, it’s a treasure trove. Currently pondering the Snow witch who derives her ice magic from the moon, and how she can possibly connect to the corpse queen and also the nature of elemental magic in Asoiaf. Maybe it’s a similar system…
>Cold Hands is the only one that isn't trapped in the weirwoodnet.
Would be cool but I think he’s dunk

>>25324691
>Cold Hands is Dunk
I don't think so man, I think George wants his flea bottom peasant true hearted knight not directly connected to magic and the deep plot like that. The fact he might survive Summerhall at all to retire and die in obscurity is a great end for him. And Dunks not a warg, nothing in any of the 3 books even hints at that

>>25324696
>The fact he might survive Summerhall at all to retire and die in obscurity is a great end for him
This. He retired to a quiet life on Tarth that’s why Brianne finds his shield there, and no one can convince me otherwise

>>25324543
>>25324691
Is ER gud?

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>>25324952
It's quite literally a masterpiece. Its the forefront of artistic expression and storytelling through ou most advanced method of stroytelling, video games. It doesn't feel like a real game even as you play it its just so perfect. Yes its gud

I feel like the lake of rot is a metaphysical stand in for the Heart of Winter/far north. Lake of rot has the outer god of rot sealed, Heart of Winter is where the god-like power of Azor Ahai as an uber greenseer is trapped. I'm not sure what the second order revalation this can mean for the setting though. The pests are their worshipping in ER, while the Others don't worship it but want to get back in

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>>25324985

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>last book is named the dream of spring
>winterfell is built on the hot springs
>mfw asoiaf ends with the onsen episode

>>25324995
Who will fondle and who will be fondled?

So how did Anguy move around his 10k dragons? Is there a bank in King's Landing?

>>25310292
It's DEY CULCHA

I hope Tyrion gets even more evil over time. Stops just indulging in acting nasty just to spite people who hate him anyway, and starts just getting off on finally having power that isn't conditional and abuses it, showing that he's not any better than his family after all, and in fact his superiority complex in regards to the rest of his family makes him even worse. I hope he bribes a dragon rider to torch kings landing to the ground after Dany makes it clear she won't.

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>>25325851
>after Dany makes it clear she won't.

lol

lmao even

>>25311432
And no one seems to take the faith serious in Martin universe totally contrary to medieval christianity

>>25326451
The faith was taken seriously before Aegon's conquest and before Maegor crushed them beneath his boots and turned the PF and WS into rats in hiding. Though even before AC there was no religious mandate stopping the FOT7 lords and Kings from constantly warring against one another.

what if the "three heads" of the dragon are actually three kingsblood sacrifices needed to rebirth azor ahai (for dany was viserys, drogo, rhaego) and for jon it will be shireen, asha theon?

>>25326144
Or maybe he edges on dany, either way

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>>25315576
>cornmen
I guess they can't all be bonemen

>>25324995
>arya and dany will touch each other in the winterfell hot springs while bran and bloodraven watch through the heart tree and high-five with nosebleeds
absolute cinema

>>25327549
>wanting a blown out targslut like Dany to touch Arya

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how do you expect their romance to go in the books ?

Sex with Visenya Targaryen

>>25327858
Why are all of Jon's love interests promiscuous? Yggrite, Val, Daenerys. Can a good lad get a maiden for his honorable heart? I'm starting to understand the Jonsa craze. Sansa is the purest of them all and it still satisfies the innate desire for incestuous relations he has as a Targ.

>>25327908
it's funny how joncels cares way more about that than jon himself, he was ok with ygritte sleeping with someone before him and knows val had guys around as sexual pets
and he'll be ok with dany having other lovers before him too
jon is no cuck but he's not a tradwife hunter incel

>>25327935
>sexual pets
She was the sex pet, or rather just a hole that wildling was pumping. I just don't see how a Jon/Daenerys pairing is going to work within two books, wait actually I shouldn't say that. Jon and Ygritte hooked up pretty fast. She hopped his young bones and he couldn't really say no at the time though I doubt Daenerys is going to rape him like that. Jon will be a new man when he comes back to life. More ruthless and hopefully still virile. Aegon might die so Jon needs to pick up the slack in repopulating house Targaryen.

>>25310112
WHY GEORGE WONT YOU FINISH WoW!? YOU FORCE ME TO SATE MYSELF WITH FANFIC SLOP AND MY PERFECT MACRO ENDING IN CRUSADER KINGS.

Jon will marry Arianne

>>25328062
are there any instances of a north/dorne marriage at all in the series

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This anon understands how George's mind works.

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>>25328081
Only one to my knowledge is a what if that could've happened but didn't

>>25327972
>I just don't see how a Jon/Daenerys pairing is going to work within two books
I don't know why people think romance needs all this deep build up. Dude sees chick, god damn she's hot, chick sees dude, damn he's hot, chick gives that look with the eyes, dude goes oh damn she wants it, they fuck, it's not that complicated.

>>25323749
>>25324543
>>25324691
What’s the glintstone equivalent in asoiaf?

>>25328347
Dragonglass?

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>>25327972
>Jon will be a new man when he comes back to life. More ruthless and hopefully still virile.

Jon Snow will be resurrected without any issues (unlike Berric and Catelyn) as his soul/spirt will have been safely ensconced in Ghost.

>>25328347
Red glintstone = red comet? Both are associated with blood sacrifice, red glintstone was created when the blind monks discovered the “bloodstar”, sounds similar to bleeding star

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>>25328347
What >>25328372 said.

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How over is it?

>>25323749
>the fact that azor ahai was a Dothraki type raider character from the grasslands
I doubt the Last Hero was from Essos

>>25328386
There isn't any problem with Catelyn. She has only been revived once and still has her wits intact. Her ruthlessness is pretty natural for someone who watched her son and his/her father's banner men get butchered by a treacherous 'ally'. She still grieves for robb.

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>>25327908
They remind him of his mother

>>25328768
Yeah azor ahai, that’s for sure a Westerosi sounding name all right. Sounds nothing like huzhor amai from the grasslands, that’s just a coincidence that means nothing DOYYY

File: 1752324419054321.mp4 (1.1 MB)

>Azor Ahai backwards is Brandon Stark
Holy shit

>>25328989
>sounds alike

So what you saying is - Dany's brother and her stillborn child are actually the same person?

>>25328925
Neither Lyanna nor Catelyn are promiscuous, so that doesn't qualify here. And he didn't know Lyanna.

>characters really want to know about mysterious character
>tell them exactly what he was in the world book, but change one letter in their name because, well, can’t make it too easy for them
>fans overlook this/memory hole it completely because it doesn’t match with the theories they’ve grown attached to
I blame empire of the dawn theorists. They made people completely disregard the actually important clues like the entire existence of sarnor

>>25329167
>sarnor
An irrelevant region. They got destroyed and enslaved by the dothraki and now's there's only two petty Sarnori 'kingdoms' left.

>>25329169
>They got destroyed and enslaved by the dothraki
Yeah, and irony of sarnor falling to the Dothraki is lost on you. You don’t even know that sarnor was created by the proto Dothraki led by the first stallion who mounts the world azor ahai, or that the reason azor ahais legend is only mentioned in ancient text from Asshai is because the libraries of the sarnor and Valyria were destroyed, only a few hundred years ago (which contained the winter and summer annals, chronicling the true story of azor ahai)

Hey just finished dance(awesome book!) And I was wondering if the next book is coming out soon?

>>25329162
It's a genetic memory, stored in weirdwood net and spurred by the wolf dreams
This actually poses interesting question: would Lyanna be seen as a slut by the Westerosi standards? Assuming she's just a headstrong girl, who willingly eloped with Rheagar.

>>25328989
>Yeah azor ahai, that’s for sure a Westerosi sounding name all right
Do you seriously think that was his name? Damn...

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>>25329179
>You don’t even know that sarnor was created by the proto Dothraki

It wasn't. Sarnor was an ancient civilized people while the proto-Dothraki were cavemen savages until the fall of Valyria.

>>25328544
More than ever.

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>>25328386
>>25328796
>There isn't any problem with Catelyn.

Like Beric Dondarrion, Catelyn is a soulless zombie automaton. A comparison could be made with a computer with corrupted software that's running on ROM with no internet connection to get updates.

Berric and Catelyn are dead-dead, their souls/spirts went wherever they go after death and now they're running on (ever more corrupted) memories of the last thing they remember when they were killed.

Jon Snow's soul/spirt on the other hand, was safely transferred to Ghost when he was stabbed to death and when Melisandre does the standard R’hllorian death ritual at his funeral, she will (accidentally) resurrect him and unlike Beric and Catelyn, Jon's soul/spirt will return to his body, leaving him a normal living human.

This is clearly foreshadowed with the Varamyr prologue.

>>25329436
>it wasn't. Sarnor was an ancient civilized people while the proto-Dothraki were cavemen savages until the fall of Valyria.
The tribes of the plains were cavemen savages until the fall of the fisher queens. You need to think cyclically. Here’s the pattern.
A precious civilization collapses. Then Chaos on the plains. Then the Barbarian horde comes and claims its prize. History is a wheel as archmaester rigney says

>>25329501
Previous*

>>25329255
No It was actually bladeheart but thats not common knowledge

When does ASOIAF get good?