>>25327021
It's stupid, slavery can end if you are lucky or brave enough. Death is eternal

BAP is an Israeli spy

>>25327021
test

>>25327021
Holy fuck can you leftist faggots stop taking that passage out of context
He NEVER says he regrets how he lived his life. He says he wishes he could be alive to avenge those that have wronged him his family. When Odysseus tells him how great his son is, Achilles is proud. He doesn’t tell Odysseus to warn his son to turn from his path.
Basically Achilles thinks being a great hero > being a slave > being dead. NOT being a slave > being a hero. He is comparing and rating slavery over death, not heroism over slavery.

>>25327109
The great wall of cope

>>25327109
not only are you a retard, even here you argue for the same point made in OP's interpretation. which makes the fact that (OP) is also you - and are resorting to samefagging to keep alive the name of BAP on /lit/ - even funnier

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>>25327021
BAP is simply trash. Homer clearly already sees the pursuit of honor and glory for its own sake as ultimately hollow. A great illustration of this is Achilles' shield, which stands on nothing, just an endless cycle, where any individual identity or glory is erased by time. The modern reading, that man's life is given meaning by the finality and absurdity of death is just that, a modern, voluntarist add on. The point of Homer's gods being ridiculous is that a frivolous life remains frivolous even if multiplied to infinity, for the same reason that adding zero to zero forever never gets you to one.

In the Odyssey, Odysseus has already secured honors and fame (thymos) and has access to immortality and all the bodily pleasures (epithumia), but this will not secure him true happiness because he is outside community and the polis, which is what defines him at all. Hence, the desires of logos lead him back to the oikos, to which logos is ordered.

With the Aeneid the scope of the oikos is expanded to the people (the Trojans) and outwards into a world spanning empire without end. Aeneas key virtue is piety. His mission has a historical telos, as shown in his version of Achilles shield, which is ordered to the history of Rome. Increasingly, man is ordered to higher principles.

But this ascent in understanding is better captured outside of epic early on, in Plato's dialogues, particularly the Republic, Phaedrus, and Symposium, and later in Boethius' Consolation. It is only perfected in Dante's Commedia however, which overcomes Virgil's skepticism about the ability of logos to rule over man's furor and a truly worthy end of self-sacrifice.

Of course, the other great narrative line here runs through the Patriarchs, Moses, Joshua, the Judges, Samuel, Saul, and David, and this Dante is able to draw together.

At that point the original vision is complete, and what comes after is more a response to the pathologies of an adolescent humanity, growing in power but turning its back on the lessons of its youth. Nietzche is in this respect hardly a return to the Greeks, but rather a particular form of modernite degeneracy.

>>25327109
So you are agreeing with OP

>>25327021
Third position is knowing you don’t have to die OR be a slave.

>>25327109
Are you forgetting what decision Achilles made that led to him being in Hades? A decision that removed him from his son's life such that he couldn't assist his son?

It was the choice to die gloriously by continuing to fight in Troy, you know, the basic decision on his plate for the whole Iliad since he knows that staying and fighting wins him honor but also an early death?

He doesn't even talk about "avenging" anyone, he doesn't know what's going on with his son or whether he's having problems after returning, all he's saying is he wishes he could be up there to assist his son if his son needed the help. The leftists are retards, but by god the classics-obsessed chuds need to equally choke on dicks, you're as intolerable.

>>25327109
most literate BAP fan

>>25327021
I thought Achilles was supposed to be a sympathetic villain rather than a hero who crutches on his god blood and would probably be a total coward without it. I only ever saw the old movie though, I can't read and am illiterate.

Interesting. I've been having similar thoughts recently. I'm 24 years old, employed as a software engineer, paid a middle class salary, work from home, cushy job when compared to some others. However I can't stand the fact that my time is not my own. I am unable to do what I want because I have to be at work on a schedule.

I've been thinking about just quitting my job and ending my life when I run out of savings. I know this is not exactly what a Greek hero would do, but I basically have no options. A Greek hero would probably commit armed robbery, but I daresay this was substantially easier in a time before cameras, prisons and DNA swabs.

Ideally the government would provide a painless option for any adult to end their lives when they want. This would at least live up to their professed liberal ideal of a consent-based society. Anyone could decide to check out at any time, without worrying about a painful death, botched suicide attempt, or injuries.

>>25327490
Tragic heroes can be seen as villains sometimes. Milton's Lucifer and Melville's Ahab are both tragic heroes. Tragic heroes have a tragic flaw meaning they have enormous nobility of will be also a manor blemish in their character that causes the tragedy such as wrath or hubris.

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>>25327021
Reminder that BAP (Costin Alamariu) is a 5 foot nothing homosexual body-worshipping gypsy jew pushing 50 with the voice of a Sesame Street character who has been astroturfed into relevance in ‘dissident politics’ solely due to his dubious ties to Peter Thiel acolytes and domestic israeli spy networks

>>25327495
>le bad boy with a heart of gold
Men and women are the same.

>>25327021
>Slavery belongs to the essence of a culture.

Nietzsche did take this dilemma to an endpoint over his life. The whole hero option is better aligns closer to his early material. Nietzsche also thought modern labor was worse than ancient slavery, he more or less likened it to living death. Before you decide hero option is better you should be aware that he also thought at some point if the slave survived long enough it would become a slave to a process and not a master. At this point he recognizes the slave to possess more power.

>the strongest point is when the slave does what he wants

He conjectured that enslavement to a process would lead to increased urges for escapism through depravity. I'm not bothering with his musings about peasant customs, if you choose the slave option you get living death until you don't feel it anymore then power and depravity as a slave, if you go for the hero option you get death. I'm not sure how BAP explains this in his podcast, it might explain his extreme homoeroticism though.

>judgement free zone but I'm not interested

>>25327021
>pedo jew says thing
who cares

>>25327508
I have no idea who this BAP guy is, but the industrial revolution was a human hamburger grinder. Of course being a slave was better than a laborer because a slave owner actually has a vested interest in the survival of their property. Question is, have things gotten any better? Maybe for a little while I guess.

>>25327501
People like OP know this and do not care. He just loves Jewish faggots and looks up to them as idols. Imagine how low someone has to be mentally to see things that way. "Vitalists" tend to be older men who feel like life passed them by so when they see sodomites "enjoying" life they feel genuine envy.

>>25327548
I don't think people understand how bad being a slave in the Classical era was. Obviously nothing like the pop culture depictions of the "horrors" of Negro slavery ever existed, but being a Roman slave was still pretty bad and they were dehumanised far more than Congoids ever were. You were generally considered about 15% human at best. Of course the Industrial Revolution had the worst working conditions ever, but people really, *really* care about status a lot too and their happiness depends a great deal on how they are perceived.

>>25327563
But wasn't it meant to be a punishment they had to work off?

>>25327548
That is something he considered and his responses still stand. In his early materials he offered a conjecture that if modern industrialization wants to train people to be masters then it shouldn't expect slaves or accept the consequences of slaves running the show or inmates running the prison.

At some point he started making distinctions between types of freedom, I don't remember all of it but he concluded self-mastery was the only mastery.

At some point he rejected some of his early material and started drawing genealogical conclusions from risk/reward. These responses are highly complicated, if you make it that far you likely know but otherwise it won't make sense. The simplest outcome is that if you rely on external validation then you are a slave. Be aware the connotations for slavery and validation change, Nietzsche thought if this point is reached then you leave rehashes of the past behind and you start making decisions about the entirety of the future.

>>25327563
Salt mine slaves had it worse than the industrial revolution

>>25327109
Why are you suddenly screeching about leftists, homes?

>>25327064
Yarvin and co are all glowies, the entirety of us politics is a honeypot and various factions inside bureaus throwing retards at each other in the most illegal manner possible armed with the strongest spyware on earth.

>>25327492
You're 24 and have a software engineering job. You're actually pretty well off by my estimation.

>>25327820
Isn't honeypot also the name of a vagina?

>>25327492
>I'm recreationally sad and I'm going to kill myself out of boredom
Ok

>>25327109
>Basically Achilles thinks being a great hero > being a slave > being dead. NOT being a slave > being a hero.
Holy cope. Read OP again

>>25327425
Why didn't homer explain that his gods were satire and his characters weren't literally gay? Could have saved the Greeks a lot of grief

>>25327982
Idk but these guys don’t mean you well. It’s a quicksand type phenomenon where they use surveillance to mill content and subtweet someone irl and further assimilate inside the “online right”. They’re feds, they collude with Feds and they’re funded by people who contract feds.

>>25328180
So how is someone supposed to do political science in Burgerland then?

>>25327049
Other way around.

>>253274250
>BAP is simply trash. Homer clearly already sees the pursuit of honor and glory for its own sake as ultimately hollow.
Wrong. He sees the pursuit of honor and glory for its own sake as the only thing worth doing. It is a matter of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE TO UNDERSTANDING THE ILIAD that when Achilles desecrates Hector's body and the gods intervene to guide King Priam to Achilles's tent to beg for his son's body, Achilles realizes the exact same godly look in Priam's face that is in his own, spends much time inspecting him, gives Priam Hector's body, gives Troy days to mourn the loss of Hector, AND THEN DECIDES TO SACK TROY ANYWAY. Achilles did NOT learn that war is le heckin bad and we shouldn't do it, he learned that life is tragic; terrible things happen, are always going to happen, are always happening, and you can do nothing about it (hint: this is the ethos of Greek tragedy). But, by doing what is natural to you, being the best in all things, you can achieve an immortal glory that turns you into a god.
>Homer clearly already sees the pursuit of honor and glory for its own sake as ultimately hollow. A great illustration of this is Achilles' shield, which stands on nothing, just an endless cycle, where any individual identity or glory is erased by time
It LITERALLY states the exact opposite, which is that the beauty of the fields of Argos, the little boys dancing with little girls, the moving rivers and breathtaking landscapes exist at all times forever, and that Achilles's choice to fight is justified because he is granted this symbol of the immortality granted in this infinite cycle. Nothing is "erased."
>The point of Homer's gods being ridiculous is that a frivolous life remains frivolous
Totally wrong. The gods were worshiped by literally every member of both sides of the Trojan war and at no point are ever challenged as a concept, which he would have had to do if his point were that the gods were "frivolous" or "ridiculous." The gods are unabashedly human and are only "ridiculous" to the soulless Christian view which sees gods as inexplicable forces

>>25328198
Be a defense contractor and someone with money power and connections to further expand the surveillance state and MIC. Until then I’d just hide in plain sight and just like normie stuff on social media like sportsball - oh and they’re 1000% using all these backdoors to socially engineer people

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>>25328180
>>25327064
>>25327501
>>25327555
There is literally no evidence at all BAP is a federal agent, trying to redirect antisemitism, trying to foster support for Israel, or doing whatever that Ben Shapiro or Richard Spencer do. The things he says are antisemitic, extremely nationalist, fascistic, anti-mass migration, racist, etc. This is genuine schizophrenia. People hear his name and start seething. This entire thread is based on BAP quoting Nietzsche for fucks sake.

>>25327555
> "Vitalists" tend to be older men who feel like life passed them by so when they see sodomites "enjoying" life they feel genuine envy
The vitalist BAP crowd is fine with “sodomists.” They aren’t really that anti-gay and tend to be pro male beauty. BAP is always retweeting photos of handsome men AND women and talks about how great it is for young and healthy and fit white men and women to be having sex.
In fact, these envious older men looking down on sexual pleasure tend to be Christians, and these are exactly the people BAP is calling out for being life-denying

>>25328200
are you retarded?

>>25328234
There is ZERO evidence that Ben Shapiro or Richard Spencer are federal agents. For FUCK's sake!

>>25328587
Ben Shapiro redirects the right wing into being pro-Israel and Richard Spencer was on the SPLC's payroll and regularly endorses the DNC

>>25328863
Whereas BAP just re-directs the right-wing into supporting Silicon Valley, Trump, Epstein, the GOP and smashing actual activists against Israel?

I mean there's a reason why it has been speculated that the Odyssey was maybe written by someone else, some even going as far as suggesting a woman, it does come off as a bit milder in terms of mentality compared to the Iliad, more mundane in terms of life relationships.
But even in the Odyssey you have for example Telemachus which as some point says something like, paraphrasing, "better to die(after lamenting that he's not likely to be able to fight them off by himself) than to live in this situation", and he was not in risk of slavery either

>>25327021
Interesting thought.

>>25327021
Slavery is better than death because there is nothing worse than death*
*unless you’re getting castrated then it’s the same

>>25328886
>Silicon Valley
He is largely critical of it as a hivemind of leftoids.
>Trump
He is largely supportive of Trump due to his immigration restriction, antagonism to the leftist establishment, and crushing of traditional doctrines. He is critical of Trump frequently as well, against his tariffs, war in Iran, and various other things like the 50 year mortgage thing he did.
>Epstein
I don't even know what you mean by this. Epstein was a standard libtard democrat that worked against all sorts of right wing causes his whole life and was in constant communication with Noam Chomsky. Epstein is a model for a powerful individual in the underworld and is admirable for that, but the causes he fought for are not good ones.
>the GOP
Insofar as they are against leftism, yes. That is how politics goes.
>smashing actual activists against Israel?
He rarely even talks about Israel. Recently he has been controversially critical of Rupert Lowe, who is supportive of Israel and at least ostensibly right wing, so this obscurantist reasoning you're reaching at does not work.