>>23802810
>because Operation Stardust destroyed a huge chunk of the Federation's space fleet and dropped a space colony onto a major breadbasket region, inflicting tremendous economic damage
that was so retarded.

>>23802810
>universally hated
everyone likes the titans because their suits fucking rule

>>23802841
You have to realise that the proto-Titans, Anaheim, and the Cima Fleet were all trying to carefully balance the outcome so that the fleet would be wrecked, and then the Solar System would stop the colony drop. Cima and the Titans would take all the credit, while the regular Federation forces would be both heavily weakened and viewed as incompetent bunglers.
The colony actually making it through and dropping to Earth was not part of the plan - hence Cima gets killed, and the President of Anaheim commits suicide. The proto-Titans manage to navigate the political situation despite fucking up their original plan.

>>23802810
>created as an autonomous
Yes

>paramilitary force
No. The Titans WERE military. They were another branch of the armed forces.

>gas an entire space colony full of civilians
>somehow decide that they are the rightful rulers of mankind,
To be fair, Zeon had already dropped 3 colonies on Earth by this point in the Timeline. Half of humanity was dead and genocided because of spacenoids dropping colonies. Earth had lost ALL ability to farm food. Half the planet was turning into desert or flood zone. The Titans were on edge of spacenoids doing it again and destroying Earth.

>giving them the right to overthrow the Federation and crush their opposition by any means necessary
The Titans WERE the Federation. They were not separate.

>sending mobile suits and mobile armors to fight in the middle of civilian populations
Technically they were hiding AEUG terrorists and Zeon war criminals (like Char) who were wanted by the Federation government.

>eventually ally themselves with fucking Axis Zeon, completely contradicting their entire original purpose
AEUG did the same thing. AEUG was even worse because they said to Axis, "We will give you Side 3 if you help us beat the Titans. No questions asked."

Literally AEUG just decided the fate of 1 billion people and gave them to Neo Zeon.

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>>23802810
Titans are the best and did nothing wrong.

Seeing how there's literally a Titans thread, I recall something like
>there was some perfectly serviceable Titans MS that was basically done, which the Federation found after the Gryps War
>it would have been perfectly fine to field this specs-wise, but due to optics and wanting to distance themselves from the Titans and have nothing to do with them, they just warehoused it/developed it to look like a Gundam or GM
Iffy on that last bit but I have absolutely no idea which mobile suit this was
Also fuck the Titans (albeit I appreciate them as an antagonist). I do agree that there were reasons for people to be paranoid and distrustful of spacenoids though

>>23803000
>I do agree that there were reasons for people to be paranoid and distrustful of spacenoids though
Killing 7 billion people will do that.

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>>23803000
It's an improvement.

>>23803009
I think they also dumped all remaining Hizacks (that didn't already defected to Axis) on Republic of Zeon.

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Honestly the Federation's waning power and the overall falling quality of life in late U.C. is proof the Titans were right.

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>>23803141

The problem with the Titans is that Jamitov's entire 4D chess plan was just a backdoor way to cause the Federation to collapse so he could be king spacenoid. The moment Bask finally decided it was time to break the very flimsy leash Jamitov had on him would be the moment the Titans devolved into just shooting one another.

The problem with Zeta Gundam is that the writers pretend that gassing one single colony would somehow cause outrage among the Federation and make them create the AEUG. Yet in the previous anime (only a few years earlier), Spacenoids killed like 10 BILLION people and destroyed half of Earth.

The reality is that most people wouldn't care about Spacenoids dying if that happened. Humanity was genocided. The harsh truth is that Tomino doesn't want to face is that, under those circumstances, most of civilians of the Federation would cheer and support the gassing of one single rebellious space colony. So many people died during the One Year War due to spacenoids and Zeon.

Most Federation civilians would say that stopping one rebellious space colony means stopping another potential Zeon from being created. That spacenoids need to shut up and be quiet after killing 10 billion people. There would be no goodwill left to care about spacenoids problems.

>>23803475
The civilian deaths during the OYW, which _both_ Zeon and the Federation participated in, are not the same as killing off an entire city in a police action.

>>23803543
The One Year War was still way too fresh in the minds of civilians to care about the difference.

Why do you think the Titans were so successful in recruiting?

>>23803475
>Most Federation civilians
Who were, by a very large majority, spacenoids themselves. Who would support something or someone that could kill you off at any time for various unknown reasons?
>>23803574
>Why do you think the Titans were so successful in recruiting?
They were so successful by the time of the events of Zeta that they had to resort to recruiting space-born Federation officers with promises of higher rank and money because there were so few Earth-born people willing to fight.

Though this is all pointless to argue about considering that the Titans were just Jamitov's 4D chess attempt at moving all people into space and rulling Earth Side by himself.

>>23803585
>Who were, by a very large majority, spacenoids themselves.
Nope. Zeon destroyed most sides during the war. Of the original 7 sides. Only 2 sides were left. For many years after the One Year War, Civilian Spacenoids would definitely not be sympathetic to any new rebellious spacenoids or rebellions.

>>23803009
Yeah that was it! Thank you!
>>23803003
>believing that the colony drops happened

>>23803778
they definitely happened, but it was a clerical error

Just read Zeta novels, they explain the formation of Titans and AEUG.

>>23803475
>in the previous anime (only a few years earlier), Spacenoids killed like 10 BILLION people and destroyed half of Earth.
you are genuinely retarded.

>>23803978
What are we supposed to do with this post? This feels like an Xbox live insult from the 2000s.

>>23803605
Please rewatch and reread everything Universal Century-related please. I haven't seen this level of poor watching/reading comprehension in a long time.

>>23804412
That's a lot of words just to say: "I don't have a counterpoint".

Want to try again?

>>23803605
>Only 2 sides were left.
Bait used to be believable.

>>23803574
>Hey the cops just murdered a guy down the street what the fuck
>Yeah that's nice and all, but did you forget about 9/11?

>>23805115
>he thinks cops act neutral good everywhere in the world.

>he thinks there wasn't discrimination after 9/11 in the USA.

Tsk Tsk.

How naive.

>>23805243
You're really good at missing the point entirely.

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What's their grunt suit that you guys like, I think I'm warming up to the Hi-Zack

>>23805259
For me, it's the Marasai. I just love that dumb piddly little beam rifle they use, and also because orange is a sick color to put on things.

>>23805254
Ignore this poster. It's a bot or chatgpt.

>>23802810
The Titans are this super powerful and technologically advanced COIN force that's built on being a direct improvement to normal Fed forces but they lost every fucking battle they fought.

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>>23802860
trvth nvke

>>23805367
To be fair, AEUG was being secretly funded by space corporations and companies because these companies hated that the Titans enforced business ethics and laws. Like forbidding Anaheim Electronics from selling mobile suits to Zeon remnants.

The AEUG never won a battle. They never stay and fight. The AEUG just run away. AEUG's track record is literally just attacking, stealing, and then running away. They never outright win a battle.

>>23805838
>They never won
>They just accomplished their objectives and then evaded a larger, better equipped force
The hell do you think winning is?

>>23805846
See the Titans never actually took any losses, the Titans getting defeated was just a Titans psyop to justify the Titans going away to join Mars Zeon

>>23805853
The Titans only lost because the leadership decided to betray and kill and eachother for some unknown reason in the last 3 episodes. Bask killed Jamitov and tried to take control. Yazan killed Bask for some reason. Then Scirroco took control. But then the Titan's Newtype Ghost Sarah decided to come back from Newtype heaven and prevent Scirroco from winning a mobile suit battle and paralyzed his mobile suit for some reason. If the Titans didn't randomly decide to kill eachother, they probably would have survived.

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>>23805862
>Bask killed Jamitov
Dude what

>Yazan killed Bask for some reason
Yazan joins Scirocco in both the TV and movie version of events, I guess the movie just has him backstab Bask as a more direct confirmation of it. In the TV series, Reccoa is part of Scirocco's attack on the Dogosse Gier and she just shoots out the bridge to kill Bask.

>If the Titans didn't randomly decide to kill eachother, they probably would have survived.
Less random and more about half the Titans being incompetent leaders and the other half being murderous opportunists. Yazan has Jamaican killed as revenge for an earlier mission where Jamaican carelessly endangered the lives of his own troops by firing the ship's cannons toward them. Scirocco personally kills Jamitov after a beam punctures the ship they're both on and the situation became chaotic. Scirocco sends Reccoa and others to attack the Dogosse Gier because Bask was the only high-ranking Titans officer left that opposes him from taking control of the rest of the Titans.

>>23805901
>Less random and more about half the Titans being incompetent leaders and the other half being murderous opportunists.
Dude most of The Titans were just regular people and soldiers who signed up. Many thought they were doing a good job trying to keep space safe. It's just that the anime focuses on the few a-hole characters. Most Titans were honorable people thinking they were doing good.

They thought the AEUG was a literal t3rrorist organization trying to destabilize the Federation. During the Gryps war, the Titans literally thought the AEUG had infiltrated all levels of the Federation government. And in many ways they were correct. When. The Gryps war was over, Neo Zeon invaded. Most of the AEUG members quit and joined Neo Zeon. Turned out many of the AEUG were former Zeon!

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>>23805259
There's no 'zam like Barzam

>>23805276
The movable double-shield looks too goofy, but seeing the dumb little weirdo show up again and again endearing it to me
>>23806268
Whereas everyone seemed to love the Barzam, and so I got the kit for it before I even saw it... and it turns out to be just some grunt that gets very little spotlight? It does look incredulously menacing though

They only have a few good things about them

Their uniforms, their mobile suits
And nice women

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Is this real, saved this post a while back apparently

>>23806492
>Is this real, saved this post a while back apparently
What do you mean "real"?

I mean yeah. I guess it's a good analogy. The Titans are like police officers. The Titans designed their Hizacks to easily destroy Zeon One Year War remnant suits like Doms and Gelgoogs. The AEUG studied the Titans and their suits. Then the AEUG designed their new suits (like the Rick Dias) to easily destroy Hizacks.

>>23806492
It's kind of cope. The Hizack is basically the result of AE having just adsorbed a bunch of formerly Zeon production capacity that was tooled up to produce Zeon-like suits.
The Titans had the authority to order outside the regular EFF supply chain but they also had to deal with the fact that the EFF already had most of that production capacity tied up, which becomes even more pronounced if they're rebuilding forces lost from 0083, and the EFF is mainly buying RGM-79 based suits and trying to upgrade to/standardise around the RMS-179 as much as it can. So AE offer to make something GM-ified out of their former Zeonic facilities instead.
If we're making shit up anyway that seems more likely to me, since it's essentially what really happened when the SS tried to buy shit. The actual army already had dibs on production so they had to grab basically whatever from occupied territory.

>>23806767
I believe the lore was changed to that the Titans were the ones that built the Hizack using Zeon asteroid facilities they confiscated. Mainly Solomon and A Boa Que. Now renamed to Konpeito Island and Gate of Zedan. The Titans didn't trust Anaheim Electronics after the events of 0083 where they discovered AE was supplying weapons to Zeon remnants. And the AE president committed suicide rather than accept being arrested and standing trial.

>>23802841
That's literally doing real contolism. Putting pressure on Earth to move more people into space and the resulting anti-Federation sentiment that comes from it. Zeon Deikun couldn't have done it better himself.

>>23806940
Weird, I thought they were considered AE production suits. In either case the same basic logic applies, reusing tooling from Zeon's suits to bypass existing supply chain limitations and get something made custom.
>>23806492
I'd also criticise this logic because in theory the Titans are much more likely to see combat than the standard EFSF and EFF. If anything they should be buying for overmatch in limited numbers. SOF kit versus a grunt, or SWAT versus a regular police officer.
Londo Bell got outfitted with new high end kit and they were on a much tighter leash than the Titans ever were, though built for the same basic job.

>>23806973
>Weird, I thought they were considered AE production suits.
The origin has flip flopped several times over the years depending on whichever is the latest databook that gets released. Sometimes the writer says it's a Titans made suit. Sometimes the writer says Anaheim Electronics made the Hizack. Then changes back. It will probably change again in a couple years.

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>>23802810
thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhCogSQ-wsk

>>23807125
I read in a reddit thread that the design for the Hambrabi was originally intended for the Methuss to be an AEUG 'spotter' unit for the hyper-mega cannon. It claimed that Methuss in japanese means "many eyed" but like many Zeta designs management said that mono-eye suits had to be bad guys so they reused it for the Titans.
>in a different reality Hizacks took the place of Nemos and made more sense as AEUG using Anaheim-supplied Zeon tech with the Titans using the obviously more Feddie derived Nemo

>>23803475
You only watched Origins, didn't you?

>>23802810
>Spacenoids
>Human
Late UC proved Titans were right. Only with a Earthbounded iron fist will these autistic retards be pacified

>>23807211
Your insult isn't as clever as you think it is.

>>23806973
>Londo Bell got outfitted with new high end kit
Not really.

Londo Bell was only allowed to have 4 ships and some Jegans. No Gundams allowed (at least not at first). This is not high end kit. Jegans were barely on par with Geara Dogas
They were severally understaffed.

The Titans had a massive space fleet, 2 asteroid bases, a colony laser, Jaburo, Kilaminjaro Mountain, and forces all over Earth for patrol. And tons of different suits.

>>23802841
Funny how stardust making the Titan uprising some super sekret inside job just ended up being extremely contrived and retarded and retroactively made them lamer.

Feddies beginning to branch off and overreach after OYW felt like a natural evolution. They saw how full retard zeon went in its destruction, they made strong mobile suits and saw just how good newtypes can be. That alone is motivation enough for them to make a subfaction that can push the boundaries of what they're capable of and stave off further spacenoid retardation.

There did not need to be an entirely seperate event that's a shittier copy of what zeon already did (colony drop + blowing up a huge fleet) to justify the Titan's existence.

>>23807531
0083 originally wasn't going to be some sort of secret Titans conspiracy. The original director just wanted a cool action anime inspired by Top Gun. They would chase Zeon remnants who stole Gp02 and get into cool battles. Along the way, tbere was going to be occasional cameos from Zeta Gundam characters like Bask to give fanservice to viewers. Little Easter eggs but nothing more.

Bandai was worried this plot wasn't going to be enough for viewers. So they fired the Director, and hired a new director who promised to add more story depth and character drama to the show. He added the Nina Love Triangle, the Titans conspiracy, and the Cima Delaz betrayal. That's why the 2nd half of the 0083 anime feels so different compared to the 1st half.

I personally would have been fine with the original director's vision.

>>23807531
>>23807546
Gundam's politics also work better when it's not just about little groups of bad guys making everything happen. It's a big part of why Unicorn retconning a big conspiracy into UC from the start is retarded.
Human failures are the enemy of UC and always have been. It's self-interest and indifference leading to terrible things.

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>>23807546
Cima was the best part of 0083.

>>23807546
>The original director just wanted a cool action anime inspired by Top Gun.
This shit does not have a source. It's just yet another episode of americans relating the media they watch to their own stuff.
>Bandai was worried this plot wasn't going to be enough for viewers. So they fired the Director, and hired a new director who promised to add more story depth and character drama to the show. He added the Nina Love Triangle, the Titans conspiracy, and the Cima Delaz betrayal. That's why the 2nd half of the 0083 anime feels so different compared to the 1st half.
Please give me a source.

I want a Gqux like AUC but Titans instead of Zeon win the war

>>23807582
>This shit does not have a source.
Well it does but I will never share it with you now. You are rude. Newsflash, not everything is digitized or available online. Enjoy being left in the dark.

>It's just yet another episode of americans relating the media they watch to their own stuff.
You don't even own Gundam home media. All your shit is pirated. You have no right to talk.

>>23807657
cope faggot.

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>>23807616
>Gqux like AUC but Titans instead of Zeon win the war
Jamitov's Titans, Bask's Titans or Scirocco's Titans? Because each would be a radically different organization.

>>23807582
>This shit does not have a source. It's just yet another episode of americans relating the media they watch to their own stuff.
Have you seen Top Gun? Have you seen 0083? It's not 1:1 but it's extremely clear that 0083 was heavily inspired by Top Gun. Hell just listen to the main theme songs back to back.

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>>23807546
Honestly I can see the original vision having its own deal of story depth had it gone on and focused on Kou and Gato's rivalry. There's a subtext going on in the first half of 0083 regarding masculinity, Monsha's antics, Kou's apparent lack of ideals contrasted vs Gato's adherence to ideals that are abhorrent. Making 0083 purely a rivalry story would have explored that. Maybe it's boilerplate for anime but I don't see that as a bad thing, especially compared to what they thought was the more 'dramatic' story.
Hell, they could have probably leaned further into Top Gun and go all in on the homoeroticism and get fujobux forever out of it.

>>23802810
and then because they utterly failed to do their job properly, the Federation had to form Man Hunter units to deport all the spacenoids and poors from Earth

>>23808021
It seems like they were setting Gato up to be a negative masculinity or something. You know, Kou's still finding his way but it's better than being super sure about the wrong one, something down that path.
It kind of feels like an orphaned story element, Gato's constant 'muh honour' shit while doing abhorrent things in the name of a dead would-be empire never gets challenged and in the end they make him into some romantic lost cause figure. That might even work if he was going for a more symbolic victory or at least something less awful than another fucking colony drop years after the war ended. Hell even that could work if the OVA seemed more aware of the futility and tragedy of it all. I like 0083 but it's also very clear something went off course in the back half.

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>>23808124
Yeah, tell me about it. 0083 has everything I like on paper, drawing from Top Gun, giving OYW suits and aesthetics one last hurrah before Zeta etc. but the ending manages to infuriate me so much I'm happy to write all of it off.

>>23808222
It's also why it annoys me when people say that the recent manga retelling 'fixes' it by just doubling down on the weird note that is the last episode or two and adapting the entire story to fit.

>>23808258
The problem is the Manga was written by the Second Director of 0083. The same director who loves drama, conspiracy, and love triangles.

But I will say this. The Manga did one thing right. It made Monsha better. He calls out the Albion crew for being idiots. Monsha says their job is to follow orders and hunt down Zeon. Nothing more. That they should stop causing headaches among the top brass and just kill Zeon. He insults Kou several times for being naive and a big baby. And threatens to kill Kelly when he finds out he's a Zeon.

>>23807616
This but not shit
full EF oppression of the noid's please

>>23808311
Japan loves Zeon too much.

Apparently the Japanese audience had trouble understanding or sympathizing with the Titans. So their Titans faction was never that popular with Japanese audiences.

>>23808317
Zeon did nothing wrong

>>23808326
Zeon deserves the gas

>>23807748
They could just redo Zeta, except have the AEUG and Karaba be significantly weaker so that more of the screentime and fights are spent on the Titans Civil War, sort of like the Glemy Faction vs. Haman Faction in ZZ.

>>23807657
bootlicking faggoscum

>>23808387
>bootlicking
Lmao. I support the anime industry, and my favorite shows because I want the animators to get paid and for the studios to make more.

You are just as entitled as that one anon from the Seed thread months ago. I shared exclusive interview information with my fellow anons. One anon called me a liar and said, "no source supports this information blah blah blah you are a liar blah blah blah".

He demanded I upload a 2 hour video commentary and video interview with Seed staff just to prove him wrong. This video was from the bonus features section from the Seed Freedom Movie Directors Cut that I special ordered from Japan.

Sorry but nope. Not only were you RUDE to me, but I'm not uploading hours of interviews and commentary footage. Go buy the movie yourself if you call me a liar.

>>23808317
There's nothing redeemable about the Titans. From it's foundation it was always a means of pushing Jamitov and Bask's earthnoid supremacist agenda using Zeon hunting as a smokescreen.

>>23808406
If you aren't buying JP BD/DVD and merch then your money will never reach the animators.

>>23807518
They had Jegans which was their best MP suit the Feds had at the time and also the top-of-the-line battleships for the era, the only areas that they were really gimped on where ace suits and total manpower, but both of those have easy explanations seen in the movie.

The total manpower was kept low to prevent them from becoming another Titan's situation potentially with us seeing another equivalent organization in the form of the Manhunters during the movie. While they kept Amuro specifically under armed with a suit waiting for him in the wings if a threat big enough presented itself to hand over to him as needed in the Nu Gundam and the earlier Mu Gundam they just didn't want Amuro to have access to a better suit if he were to ever go maverick because they'd need a massive tech advantage to beat him in a fight.

>>23808604
>While they kept Amuro specifically under armed with a suit waiting for him in the wings if a threat big enough presented itself to hand over to him as needed in the Nu Gundam and the earlier Mu Gundam they just didn't want Amuro to have access to a better suit if he were to ever go maverick because they'd need a massive tech advantage to beat him in a fight.
Horseshit, Nu was a custom order job by Amuro and the Feds had no hand in setting that up at all. It's another case of Anaheim willingly doing secret deals under the table, no different than when they were arming the AEUG with the latest mobile suits right under the Feds' noses.

>>23807518
>>23808604
In particular they didn't just have Jegans, they had a complete fleet of Jegans. Regular EFSF we see later on are still rocking GMIIs and IIIs. As far as we see in the film at least they seem to have received the entire production run of the latest and greatest that the EFF has access to. You can complain that they aren't shown blanket mopping the floor with Geara Dogas but there's no getting around the fact it's clearly priviliged access to the best equipment first.
If they're getting the scale of resources they need to deal with Neo Zeon is a different question, but being given a platoon of special forces when you needed a battalion doesn't mean they stop being special forces.
The issue is the Earth Federation not wanting to acknowledge the scale or seriousness of the threat and that it needs a bigger response, not outright cutting the legs out from Londo Bell.

>>23808644
>You can complain that they aren't shown blanket mopping the floor with Geara Dogas but there's no getting around the fact it's clearly priviliged access to the best equipment first.
IIRC most counts of Londo Bell and Char's NZ forces have Londo Bell successfully fighting their way to Axis despite Char's MS forces being two times bigger and having 3x as many warships as well as the Alpha Azieru. It may not have been the focus, but yeah, they had to be mopping the floor with Neo Zeon in the background.

>>23805933
>AEUG members quit and joined Neo Zeon. Turned out many of the AEUG were former Zeon
@chat, is this bot hallucinating?

>>23808671
Keep up with the updated canon old man.

>>23805933
>Most of the AEUG members quit and joined Neo Zeon

Blame Bright, and Char. The AEUG had the Federation by the balls in ZZ, and Bright basically had the AEUG re-absorbed back in the Federation.

Without its political reformation being implemented. Surprise, most of the AEUG joined Neo-Zeon

>>23808604
>They had Jegans which was their best MP suit the Feds had at the time and also the top-of-the-line battleships for the era
If the latest Manga, supplementary databooks and video games are to be believed, the Londo Bell ships were not top of the line. They were newer but limited in many ways. Especially with the restricted budget they were given (The best the Federation could do was building massive ships like the Dogosse Giar or General Revil. But we know the Federation won't allow it).

Amuro makes several comments saying he doesn't like the design of the new Clop-class ships. That the Pegasus class was better, and even references the Argama. If those are not available, then he suggests they are better off using a bunch of Salamis-Kai ships which are available right now in great numbers. They can get a bunch of Salamis ships and overwhelm Char's small fleet with raw numbers. To end the conflict quickly.

>>23808695
your updated canon is wrong, most of the people you're talking about never joined neo zeon, they formed EGUM instead

>>23808703
>If some bullshit someone else wrote 35 years later are to be believed
This is fucking exhausting.

>>23808706
>EGUM
Lmao. They only appear in the novels. They have like 10 members and only like 3 Mobile suits. EGUM also supports Char's Neo Zeon. Is your brain working properly old man?

>>23808727
Them's the shakes, you were the one who said keep up with the new canon, this is newer than any information you've mentioned.

>>23808726
I know, right? Ever since I let go of all canon, it's been so much easier. All that exists is lore. Canon be damned, it matters not a fuck and there's nothing to be gained by being a goddamned Gundam missionary cramming canon down other people's throats and expecting to convert others by saying "have you heard the new word? no not that old lore, this new lore I had to spend 80 quid to read about".

>>23808706
>EGUM
This is old canon like anon said.

>>23808731
It's also just not a productive way of talking about things. CCA is a film made by people making a sequel to three TV series, it's not a series of bullet points and dates on a fictional chronology.
Londo Bell the faction presented for the first time in CCA is presented one way. Londo Bell, the returning familiar faction in Unicorn is someone else's attempt to build upon it in a certain direction to suit their story. Londo Bell, the gundam wiki entry compiling points of lore from CCA, Unicorn, games based on them, games not based on them, kit manuals, lore books and a dozen other sources into a list is not something that existed until fans made it exist, and then tried to make it all other forms of Londo Bell by extension.

>>23808726
I mean Amuro isn't wrong. The Clop class is inferior to Pegasus class. And why can't they just get like 30 Salamis ships and beat Char down? The Federation has tons of Salamis everywhere. Amuro is right.

I'm confused with Gundam Thunderbolt take on the Titans since it's no notable english scans past Volume 22, my understanding they're just AE's private army while Eureka are Feds+Jovian or it's the same Feddie civil war?

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>Bask, I'm thinking about recruiting purple haired faggot spacenoid from Jupiter. Do you think it's a good idea?

I think the last 2 episodes of 0083 ar excellent, they are my favourite 2 episodes, and I have no idea why you guys are so set against it. It's absolutely a Titans-esque act to deliberately get the regular EFF hobbled to facilitate their own rise. Delaz' last scene is incredible. The Solar System 2 is incredible. A little bit of Zeon-on-Zeon violence during the Solar System's charging is cool to see. Kou getting pushed right to the limit of his sanity is really gripping. Sure, the Nina-Gato thing is stupid and comes out of nowhere, but it can't ruin the ending to me. The way Gato finally goes down is really thematically fitting, as is Kou finally realising none of that shit he got so worked up over was actually worth getting mad about. He's someone who stepped right up to the brink of madness, which would make him into another Gato, and turns around at the last moment.
I don't really see how or why you would make 13 episodes of chasing down the GP-02. That sounds like a more boring anime than what we got.

>>23808799
Thunderbolt is entirely it's own universe. And to be honest the writer went crazy after the one year war ended. He couldn't make up his mind and the story went all over the place. It's rather messy storytelling.

>>23808699
>Blame Bright
Bright is such a straight-laced coward. He could have reformed the system. But he just handed ALL the power back to the Federation in exchange for nothing!

>>23808816
The conspiracy angle takes away agency from both sides. Feddies don't have to represent banality of evil or how easily one can justify their own atrocities, they had their wool pulled over their eyes the whole time and if they knew the truth they totally would feel differently about pumping gas into colonies. Zeon were also similarly just bamboozled into moving and dropping a colony onto Earth, we don't have to examine their own fanaticism sieg zeon banzai bullshit or complicity in mass destruction outside of wartime. It was all a big dupe.
Nina is like a lightning rod for it all but it really is emblematic of how it doesn't work. The 11th hour twist doesn't make you watch or consider anything in a new light, because prior to the reveal there is no scenes of her reacting to Gato or the mention of his name or anything. It's not something that can be explored afterward either because by the time the confrontation happens the show's basically over and we're not seeing these characters again ever.
I'd rather the 'boring' version than one which offered up nothing new but did everything to 'subvert my expectations'.

>>23808631
The Nu was already in the books well before CCA started and with expanded lore had a prior version in existence too Amuro had powerful suits in the wing for him if there was a big enough threat for the Feds to give him the rubber stamp.

>>23808746
Your problem is you are thinking of Gundam anime as a unchangeable classic story. Like a classic fairy tale with a beginning, middle, and ending.

It's better to think of Gundam as a fictional documentary. The anime/manga/games/etc are just documentaries about events that happened in the Gundam universe. OYW? Its like watching a WW2 Documentary. Same idea.

>>23808744
EGUM's been expanded in the new F90 mangas.

>>23809346
But EGUM still supported Neo Zeon. So other anon's statement is still wrong. AEUG had Neo Zeon sympathizers within their ranks.

If the Manga and novels expand EGUM to make them larger, then that only makes it worse. It just means a larger part of the AEUG supported Neo Zeon.

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>>23808748
>>23808703
The Clop class does seem wildly undergunned for being the latest generation battleship from the Federation. It only has 2 weirdly placed turrets. It can't even do a proper broadside since only one turret can aim sideways. And that's only if the gun tilts the barrel a full 90 degrees upward. Which is very awkward.

>>23809318
>You problem is you are thinking of Gundam as ... a story ... with a beginning, middle and ending
Gundam is a series of stories, written across decades of real time by different people. It is not real events you are discovering things about. There have been stories created to be told in the format of in-universe historical documentation and UC Gundam is not among them.
I am reasonably sure you are just doing a bit at this point, but it's a bit that represents a truly infuriating way people engage with franchises now. Fan wikis and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

>>23809648
It looks like an escort or light carrier to me. You can see how the ship's built around the mobile suit hanger and launch catapult.
Given how prior UC keeps whacking you over the head with how ships are useless against MS and the best thing you can do is cart a bunch of suits to the battle to fight for you, it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable.
UC ship design has always been kinda funky.
It's also not a battleship. It's significantly smaller than the Ra Cailum, which is probably the better candidate for that descriptor.

>>23809651
>It is not real events you are discovering things about.
>format of in-universe historical documentation and UC Gundam is not among them.
Um yes it is? Some shows even take a documentary style approach to Gundam. Like Ms Igloo. Did you even watch it?

>I am reasonably sure you are just doing a bit at this point, but it's a bit that represents a truly infuriating way people engage with franchises now.
Speak English. You aren't even making sense anymore.

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>>23809648
I agree. The Clop seems like a lot of wasted empty space. They could add more guns.

>>23809660
The problem is that the old Salamis-Kai is able to do the same thing but in a smaller package. It has the hangar in front, and has twice the amount of beam cannons. A Salamis-Kai could probably defeat a Clop class in direct ship combat.

>>23809700
>The problem is that the old Salamis-Kai is able to do the same thing but in a smaller package
>smaller package
Is that a pro or a con?

>>23809708
Definitely a pro. Smaller ship means less surface area which means less chance of getting hitting by enemy beam cannons.

>>23809660
>Given how prior UC keeps whacking you over the head with how ships are useless against MS and the best thing you can do is cart a bunch of suits to the battle to fight for you, it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable.
Except if you are a Pegasus class ship. Suddenly your ship does reasonably well against MS.

>>23809722
That's because the pegasus is an even bigger MS carrier and always has suits around it to defend itself

even then I don't think any of the pegasi ever shoot down a mobile suit, while the craps had lots of AA guns and seemingly shot down a geara doga late in the movie

>>23809700
surprised you haven't made the clop = クラップ = kurappu = crap joke yet

that said, 3 craps and the ra cailum successfully fought through char's 13 musakas in CCA, one crap was lost while an unspecified number of musakas were lost

>>23809648
It can just roll for a broadside with the primary cannons, which took me longer to realise than I care to admit.
>>23809700
I don't fully agree. The Salamis Kai has a smaller MS hanger and much shorter catapult, plus the elevator represents a pretty appalling single point of mechanical failure for the MS bay in combat.
It looks to me like the Clop keeps the same primary arms and missile capacity, but swaps out the secondary guns for more AA (AMS?) optimised cannons with better overlapping coverage.
The EFSF is allergic to putting point defence on the 'undersides' of their ships for whateve reason but that's hardly unique to either of them.
The bigger radiators also make me think it can properly operate at higher beam or engine output, or comparable for a longer period.
Clearly in-universe they're both fine because they both show up in Victory in frontline service, I don't think the Clop would last that long or appear in those numbers if it was markedly inferior to the Salamis Kai in practice.
I think it's basically a mindset shift from a warship carrying mobile suits, to a mobile suit carrier warship. Neither ended up being markedly superior enough to make the other extinct in the end.
>>23809722
The trick is that Pegasus FCS computers just pretend they're not shooting at mobile suits so they don't get the non-MS-on-MS debuff, but the EFSF felt it was unsportsmanlike and discontinued the practice.

>>23802860
Rather, they would if they all had the black paint job sported by the Mk. II Gundams when they had them. As it is, the regular EFF Hizacks are more Titanic than all of the TItans' own suits, including and especially their Hizacks, which sport paint jobs that are nothing short of outright Zeonic!

>>23808549
>earthnoid supremacist agenda
im thinking BASED

>>23808549
>From it's foundation
>From it is foundation

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>>23810790
>minor grammar mistake

>>23809775
>13 musakas in CCA
Not all 13 ships were at the final battle. Char left half his forces at Luna 2 after he captured. So Char only fought with less than half his strength at Axis. Plus Char used one of his ships as a sacrificial pawn to loaded with nukes to contaminate the atmosphere. So that ship wasn't even fighting. So it was more like 4 Londo Bell ships VS 5 Neo Zeon ships.

>>23809798
>It can just roll for a broadside with the primary cannons, which took me longer to realise than I care to admit.
You can't do that. Not only is there no anti air cannons on the bottom of the ship, but the bridge still needs to see whats going on. The bottom is the most vulnerable part of the ship. You are exposing everything just so 2 cannons can rotate.

>>23810998
Anon it can roll to have the AA guns facing towards the target instead. And the Salamis has the exact same flaw in the placement of its primary cannons, it seems to be the EFSF's preference for whatever reason. And why the fuck would they need to be able to see what they're firing at from the windows? They're not hip-firing the fucking things. The bridge won't be facing the target anyway in a ship that can perform a more traditional broadside.
If anything you'd want to be presenting the slimmest profile to an enemy ship, so all other things being equal either class pointing directly at its target is going to be the preference.

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>>23811027
>And why the fuck would they need to be able to see what they're firing at from the windows?
Don't you remember all those scenes from Zeta and ZZ where Bright would be sitting on the bridge staring out the window, and say something like "The fire coming from the left side is too weak!". Then Bright would grab the phone on his chair and yell at the gunners to increase their barrage in a certain direction. Then yell at the bridge crew some more. It's classic Bright.

>>23810819
No, that's not true. Rezin, Quess, Gyunei, and Nanai were with the half of Char's fleet that attacked Luna II. All of them and that half of Char's fleet will rejoin Char's other half of the fleet that went to Axis right away, bringing the stolen nukes from Luna II to attach to Axis in the form of the single Musaka docked to one of Axis' ship port. That still means 12 Musakas and the Rewloola were fighting at Axis by the end of the movie.

>>23802810
Somehow I didn't realize how much long term damage the Titans caused to the reputation of the Federation until OP pointed it out.

>>23811534
It was so long term that the manhunters just slid back in to pick up the slack from where the Titans dropped it

>>23811093
Count the number of Neo Zeon ships at the final battle. Char didn't bring his whole fleet. He purposely left some of them behind. You really think Char brought all 13 ships? Nope. If he did, then Londo Bell would never have a chance. It's the same reason why Char gave Amuro the Psycho Frame data. He wanted a fair fight. The whole final battle was a staged performance where Char made both sides as even as possible to make it fair.

>>23811564
Eh, Rewloola and 6 Musakas still ain't anywhere near a fair fight against Ra Cailum and 3 Craps. Keep in mind that Musakas have twice the firepower of a Crap, so it's still shameful that so many Musakas were destroyed when only one Crap was lost.

>>23809775
Coulda been clap.

>>23811590
Musakas are built primarily for speed. It would not surprise me if the output and range of the ship beam weapons are lower than Clop class. Similar to how a Musai class always loses to a Salamis class in a head to head ship fight. The Musai needs mobile suits to win.

>>23811590
Eh....londo bell brought twice as many suits. So it evens out. They had spare Jegans strapped to the outer hulls of their ships because the hangar were full.

>>23803141
Yummy bnuyy pubes XP

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>>23811897
So did Neo Zeon, you can see Geara Dogas tied down with cables

>>23812811
>Geara Dogas upside down
Oh ffs, they're going to drop another colony on Australia aren't they

>>23812811
Not necessarily. It might be a situation where damaged Geara Dogas are stored inside the ship for repairs. Usable Dogas are stored outside. Char had been through several battles by this point without returning to base.

Londo Bell had numerous pit stops at Federation bases offload damaged suits and pick up more pilots.

>>23814396
Nah, not really. We saw all the stops that Londo Bell made at bases and it was exactly zero.

>>23814404
>and it was exactly zero.
Dude did you even watch the movie? Londo Bell literally docked at a Colony Side to get resupplied and even got extra nukes.

>>23814460
Gotcha, that wasn't a Federation base, it was an illegal transfer of nukes from the neutral side 6 to the Feds.

>>23814468
>neutral side 6
Lol. Does any character in Gundam really believe this? Weren't they secretly helping the Federation during the One Year War. I'm surprised Zeon didn't destroy them for the betrayal.

>>23814477
You of all Gundam fans should know how much neutrality and treaty means. Remember the 0083 thread?

>I'm surprised Zeon didn't destroy them for the betrayal.
Reminder that Zeon didn't even lift a finger or lodge a complaint, that tells you how much it mattered.

>>23803543
OYW civilian deaths were almost entirely caused by Zeon nuking fellow spacenoids and gassing a few, then dropping the colony. It would have been more interesting if the english mistranslation of both sides losing half their population was accurate and some of the Other Sides sided with Zeon. (On a related note, I hate that they're called Sides!)

>>23815042
>OYW civilian deaths were almost entirely caused by Zeon nuking fellow spacenoids and gassing a few, then dropping the colony.
Nah. It was caused by both sides collateral damage. Federation were indifferent about civilian deaths and just wanted victory. So if they had to destroy a couple colonies to attack a Zeon fleet, then so be it. Meanwhile Zeon actively used colonies as weapons for drops.

>>23808631
>>23809068
The Nu Gundam was paid for by John Bauer, the chair of the federation defense committee or whatever, as a personal favor to Bright. He's the guy who organized Londo Bell as an official federation unit in the first place. The Federation did technically pay for it, but only because an official backchanneled it and made a deal directly with Anaheim. Also the Nu is a huge shitter in the novel. It's so bad that when Amuro discovers the wreck of the Psycho Doga and sees the psychoframe and newtype tech inside he literally has a meltdown and has a metaphorical moment of impotence with Beltorchika. Very pathetic. it doesn't even begin to compare to the Nightingale and Amuro's language when referring to the Nu Gundam, immediately after receiving it mind you, suggests he thinks it's emasculating. Tomino loves that psycho-sexual shit but he figuratively cucks Amuro and it's pretty gross. He only feels better after learning Beltorchika might be pregnant.

>>23815046
No, pretty much every source agrees that Zeon unilaterally destroyed the Sides to destroy the Federation garrisons built into them as soon as they declared war. They planned from the start to wipe out anyone if it meant winning. Thunderbolt, despite being an alternate timeline, gives you a glimpse into this with the Moore Brotherhood being hellbent on taking revenge for Zeon wiping out Side 4. 2 sides were indiscriminately fired upon by Zeon just seconds after their declaration of war was broadcast. The slaughter is so one-sided that you won't even find a mention of the Federation ever using nukes except on the colony drop. All the WMDs were unilaterally used by Zeon, typically on colonies and ships. Also, newer media like G Eternal's special events expanded the colony drop so it's now dozens of colony drops, one for most of the major cities on Earth. The Zeekwank only goes so far. Zeon being genocidal is pretty consistent.

>>23815148
>No, pretty much every source agrees that Zeon unilaterally destroyed the Sides to destroy the Federation garrisons built into them as soon as they declared war.
No. Once the battle began, the Federation cared little about civilian deaths. You can't instantly destroy a garrison without the Federation returning fire. All sources say that Zaku pilots died and Zeon suffered losses during these battles. It was NOT one sided like you claim.

>>23815148
I would argue that Zeon were the aggressors, but the Federation wasn't entirely innocent either. If we include Manga and secondary lore, there are sources that say the Federation created lots of collateral damage in their battles against Zeon. Federation Commanders often disregarded civilian lives during major battles. A few Manga even have Federation troops using civilians as shields. Often hiding within civilian population zones and launching surprise attacks against Zeon knowing that it would be difficult for Zeon to return fire against civilians. This enraged the local populace.

>>23808258
>>23808270
I think Nina's back and forth indecision about Gato was better done. She wanted him dead and she wanted Kou to be a hero, but when it came down to it she couldn't stand to see Kou kill him. and both Kou and Gato found her annoying by the end which was a hilarious brief moment of bonding before their final fight.

Also it had a lot more BECAUSE story telling as opposed to AND THEN.

Burning dies BECAUSE of Kou's actions on the Moon, they're no longer a nonsequiter character aside, and Burning's death is no longer random. Even if yes, maybe that was just an excuse to not have Kou kill Cima,

>>23803605
>Of the original 7 sides. Only 2 sides were left.
lolwut
>Civilian Spacenoids would definitely not be sympathetic to any new rebellious spacenoids or rebellions.
You're just gonna pretend that the AUEG and the various Neo Zeons weren't a thing?

too much bullshit in this thread, no one posting sources

betcha that one guy shows up and says we should be grateful he's even telling us about any lore and because we asked for sources he's gonna stop sharing his info (he's not gonna stop)

>>23808748
>>23809648
It's a salamis kai successor not an Alexandria or Pegasus, that would Be Ra Cailum.

Also the entire movie would have ended at 5th Luna, or at least Lhasa would have lived, had Char not fucked up the Nahel Argama in a CYOA book before the movie.

One, maybe two Hi Mega Hos break 5th Luna's engines and possible nuke part of the fleet.


Drowning char in Salamis loaded with various GMs would also work but the Federation didn't want to deploy en masse.

>>23814468
>>23814477
>>23814481
Side 6 was reintegrated before Zeta IIRC.

>>23815046
>>23815148
True enough many were caught int eh crossfire and most of the intentionally Zeon targeted Islands did have feddie garrisons aboard, but Zeon did pop more of them.

>>23815264
Yeah in space station situations there really needs to be more significant civilan-military segregation to prevent disasters.

>>23815356
>>Of the original 7 sides. Only 2 sides were left.
>lolwut
>>Civilian Spacenoids would definitely not be sympathetic to any new rebellious spacenoids or rebellions.
>You're just gonna pretend that the AUEG and the various Neo Zeons weren't a thing?


He's right that the original proposal Tomino submitted to sunrise, Zeon exterminates basically all of the sides. The sequels having other spacenoids sympathetic to them is very odd and sort of a soft retcon.

>>23815398
It's not even a retcon but it is contradictory. The later material doubled down on Zeon being on the offensive and causing the majority of the deaths, even if the Federation plays some part in fighting without caring about civilian lives.

And yet at the same time, you see all these grievances about the Federation, but there doesn't seem to be the generally sentiment against Zeon you'd expect for an entire generation at least after such massacres.

Like, even the Titans had to hide how they were gassing colonies. Zeon blatantly did it as part of their war maneuvers and yet had no heat. So, why did the Titans even have to hide anything?

Both Tomino and other writers have the Zeon causing all this disaster but at the same time don't write people reacting to it all like they should.

>>23815356
>>23815398
>He's right that the original proposal Tomino submitted to sunrise, Zeon exterminates basically all of the sides. The sequels having other spacenoids sympathetic to them is very odd and sort of a soft retcon.

The Federation (barely) won the war. But main problem that started all this was never fixed. That the Federation never gave Space Colony's a seat in the Federation Parliament/Senate. So it's no wonder that war breaks out every 5 to 10 years. It's the population getting frustrated they can't vote on Federation policy. Only Earthnoids are allowed to vote.

>>23815406
>Like, even the Titans had to hide how they were gassing colonies. Zeon blatantly did it as part of their war maneuvers and yet had no heat. So, why did the Titans even have to hide anything?

Out of universe reason:
Tomino has said in interviews that he felt it was very difficult to extend 0079. He created the original 0079 story to be a self-contained story. Tomino felt the only way to create a new story (like Zeta) was to try something radically different.

In-Universe reason:
Because the Titans were never as big or as powerful as Zeon. The Titans were a smaller police force that had a really big budget and lots legal authority to order people around. But their manpower was limited. They couldn't be everywhere at once. And their funding was dependent on being popular with the public. So I guess they felt the colony gassing incident would ruin their image with the public. So they covered it up.

>>23815406
It never bothered me too much in Tomino's works but it seems to get more and more egregious as things go on. Unicorn having that whole extended sequence where the guy talks about how sad it was having his family under occupation, and not even offering the slightest 'okay but where is Sydney' to make him consider that his own actions have two sides too, was weak as fuck.
Gundam also seems unwilling to explore how much using the iconography of Zeon for all movements is loaded as fuck and basically doing the EFF's propaganda work for them. AEUG is the only time we see much of a moderate pro-spacenoid movement on-screen. Not until Hathaway brought Mafty in anyway.

Australians rallying around the Mafty flag always made more sense to me than everyone somehow forgiving the Sydney thing. We say what we might about the place but Sydney isn't some fucking spacenoid's to nuke. Australia becoming a Zeon hotbed makes about as much sense as if the groups uncomfortable with tighter US relations after WW2 started waving the Imperial Japanese flag.

>>23815406
>Zeon blatantly did it as part of their war maneuvers and yet had no heat.
Zeon blamed it on "rogue" units like Cima's unit and officially said there were no such orders to exterminate colonies and Cima acted on her own out of fuck, I dunno, extra large patriotism with a side of gravy spooned on top. The fact that she was never officially charged with any crime nor given a punishment from Zeon command basically tells us what they thought about the whole thing.

>but there doesn't seem to be the generally sentiment against Zeon you'd expect for an entire generation at least after such massacres.
The core 3 workers in ZZ openly revolt when they learn they're going to be handed over to Neo Zeon, but that's about it.

>>23815412
>Not until Hathaway brought Mafty in anyway.
I'm not sure how moderate the policy of publicly assassinating politicians is, but that's actually kind of light compared to what other factions have done or tried to do.

>>23815406
If spacenoids would side with Zeon over the Federation in spite of the colony gassing thing then that's a pretty good indicator of how the Federation treats them

>>23815417
True I did muddle my thoughts a little there. They're not an example of a moderate group, but they're an anti-EF movement that's distinctly different from Zeon and not trying to co-opt their imagery.

>>23815416
>but there doesn't seem to be the generally sentiment against Zeon you'd expect for an entire generation at least after such massacres.
>The core 3 workers in ZZ openly revolt when they learn they're going to be handed over to Neo Zeon, but that's about it.
But those guys were Republic of Zeon to begin with they just didn't want to deal with the space crazy axis weirdos..


>>23815419
>>23815423

If you want Zeon to be popular with other spacenoids you could have had a different side TRY to rebel and get put down with excessive force before the Zeon fleet arrived and did its counter-massacre.

Also i guess there's the question of "Where the fuck did all these spacenoids come from if most sides were smashed?" Almost every spacenoid in Zeta would have been Earthnoids in 0079 or spread out from Zeon and Side 6.

I suppose People from other parts of earth NOT hit by the colony or occupied whose reward for fighting zeon off of earth was to get stranded in space in the same conditions Zeon found so intolerable might flip side.

>>23815429
UC has always kind of struggled with the numbers initially tossed around for the scale of the OYW not really making sense for the setting as it continued. Zeta on establish a vision of the setting that almost reminds me a little of Stargate SG-1's relationship with the film. It's not just a sequel, but a sequel to a slightly different version of events we never actually saw, because shut up we want to do something different now.
That's not a bad thing or anything, that vision of UC has stood the test of time as an enduringly captivating setting of an Earth Federation having won the war only to lose the peace. They wanted to use the OYW and its fallout as backstory, but not in the borderline post-apocalyptic sense the raw numbers would suggest because their interests were elsewhere. A little like how Macross asks you not to think too hard about how humanity exists in the numbers for anything post-SDF/DYRL to happen the way it does in the timeframe it does.

Also probably a consequence of nothing from that era being created with an enduring franchise in mind, and it not being so easy for viewers to obsessively document and compare entries.

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>>23806397
its so damn weird man like the suit just appears in a hangar gets a single name drop and immediatly becomes canon fodder for the main characters.
Its specially weird considering that this is a mass production version of the gundam mk 2

>>23815398
>The sequels having other spacenoids sympathetic to them is very odd and sort of a soft retcon.
They're really not. The AEUG has no choice but to ask Axis and Haman for help, but as soon as negotiations break down they're ready to kill all of them. And in ZZ the AEUG and Federation show up with a joint fleet in response to Axis, even if it's too late to actually fight. So at least the AEUG is pretty much aligned with the Federation, which is consistent with the "official story" that Gryps was an internal federation conflict.

Even in CCA, Char just has support from Sweetwater, which is made up of refugees from Earth who were pushed into space. That's why Char points out how the Federation refuse to share the planet to incite their anger. It's less Zeon sympathizing and more resentment towards the Federation. And in Unicorn the Sleeves are mostly from Side 3, and they're really the puppets of Monaghan, not even true Zeon. IIRC the novel goes more into the backstory of how Monaghan was manipulating old-school Zeon nationalists within Side 3 because they're dumb and just froth at the mouth for Zeon, which gave him significant control over the Side 3 government and military. Monaghan is ultimately the mastermind behind the Sleeves, which we see a bit of in NT anyway, and the leader of the nationalists. The Sleeves and Full Frontal basically do his dirty work for him to find a way to check the Federation and delay their scheduled takeover of the Side 3 government. That said there is also Palau, where a lot of former zeeks ended up. Imo CCA and Unicorn just have myopia. You don't see a lot of actual normal people, unless they're getting vaporized by Zeon again.

It's mainly manga that plays up the zeon sympathizing.

>>23815482
Char has numerous terrorists on other colonies and the Federation is worried that using those colonies and their mounted weapons to STOP 5th Luna or Axis will cause riots. (And did at least cause a terror attack but those could have been infiltrated Zeeks, we never see the wider riots the Feds were worried about.)

>>23815482
>The AEUG has no choice but to ask Axis and Haman for help, but as soon as negotiations break down they're ready to kill all of them.
Oh please. AEUG was super happy to ask Neo Zeon for help. They even offered all of Side 3 for free if Neo Zeon helped them. Wong was overjoyed. Don't try to deny it.

>>23815482
>So at least the AEUG is pretty much aligned with the Federation, which is consistent with the "official story" that Gryps was an internal federation conflict.
No they aren't. They literally said they are fighting to get reforms for spacenoids rights and stop Federation spacenoid oppression.

>Even in CCA, Char just has support from Sweetwater, which is made up of refugees from Earth who were pushed into space.

Another lie. Char inspired riots across all the colonies. One guy even suicide bombed the Federation weapon control room to prevent them from helping Londo Bell. The Federation was so scared. The only thing stopping full blown Rebellion was the federation fleets and garrisons at each side. They were barely keeping the peace using military force.

>>23815486
>Char has numerous terrorists on other colonies
It's literally normal people who love Char.

>>23815486
Those guys at the beginning had recolored Neo Zeon normal suits, so they were probably armed infiltrators.

>their mounted weapons to STOP 5th Luna or Axis will cause riots
The potential riots were if the Colony Fleets deployed for the final battle. Although they move into position later in the film, and are nearby when Chan dies and her spirit is implied to convince them to help stop Char. So maybe it wasn't as serious as they feared. Regardless, I would chalk that up less to overall Zeon sympathy and more resentment towards the Earth. Even the Federation was giving Char everything he wanted and they've been trying to get rid of the population since ZZ. It's heavily implied that the Federation had already mass deported most of humanity back into space before the start of CCA. Between Quess's line about there being 10 billion or 11 billion people in space, and some of the info dropped by Mafty in the Hathaway's Flash novels, there might be as few as just millions left on Earth by Hathaway's Flash, and probably not much more during CCA. Even though Earth is a wasteland, spacenoids perpetually seethe over it.

>>23815500
>Those guys at the beginning had recolored Neo Zeon normal suits
What a leap. More likely they were probably a common space suit sold everywhere.

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>>23815494
Yea he was happy to get help because the AEUG was desperate after the Titans got power from the Federation Assembly to commandeer Federation resources at will.

>No they aren't
Yes they are.

>get reforms for spacenoids rights
Which means working within the Federation assembly. Which is literally what Blex tries to do in the show. And it's also the purpose of Char's appeal at Dakar in front of the assembly. The AEUG opposes the Titans, but tries to reform the Federation from within.

>Char inspired riots across all the colonies
No, no he didn't. They say the colony fleets are afraid there might be riots. In the end they move into position and then help out when Chan's death gives them a newtype push.

>One guy even suicide bombed
You mean multiple armed soldiers? And it's not a federation weapon control room. It's just part of a Side 2 colony's defense system.

>federation fleets and garrisons at each side
Except that's not true, because the colony fleets do move close to Axis before the final battle starts to observe.

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>>23815497
>No they aren't. They literally said they are fighting to get reforms for spacenoids rights and stop Federation spacenoid oppression.
Also this is just straight up from Sunrise promotional material for the History of UC a few years ago. The Titans vs AEUG is officially an internal conflict within the Federation forces according to Sunrise.

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>>23815512
For one they have matching weapon holsters, unlike the common normal suits Londo Bell bridge crew wears.

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>>23815512
And actually, they're not even recolored. They're literally just the Neo Zeon normal suits.

>>23815497
>>23815516
Terminology is a little muddy but AEUG is internal in the sense that they're a reformer movement rather than a breakaway. They want to influence the internal politics and policies of the Earth Federation rather than achieve independence from it or replace it.
Arguably they're also loyalists compared to the Titans but that's a whole other thing. Gryps is messy.

>>23815537
>AEUG is internal in the sense that they're a reformer movement rather than a breakaway.
Except they don't screen the history of their members or recruits. If someone like Char could get in then many others could too. AEUG is simply foolish to think all their members are Earthnoid Federation members.

>>23815513

>Which means working within the Federation assembly.
Not when the politicians are bought and paid for by either side.

>Which is literally what Blex tries to do in the show.
He was assassinated. Which proves my point that internal reform was useless and only force could make the Federation change policy.

>And it's also the purpose of Char's appeal at Dakar in front of the assembly.
The appeal failed and led to the events of CCA.

>The AEUG opposes the Titans, but tries to reform the Federation from within.
The Titans ARE the Federation. Literally a branch of the Federation military.

>>23815541
At what point do they suggest they're particularly picky about where their support comes from? They have plenty of sympathisers but no formal backing from the EFF.
>>23815546
The Titans are part of the Federation, not the totality of it. Their attempt to become the ruling faction is what ultimately gets the EFF to back AEUG over them in the end.

>>23815563
>The Titans are part of the Federation, not the totality of it.
They were already the biggest faction in the Federation. In fact, it's unclear how the Titans disappeared or why they the Federation turned against them.

Sure they couldn't stop the AEUG from infiltrating the Dakar assembly (because the AEUG had insider info and help). But that's not enough reason to remove the entire organization. At most, that failure warrants firing the Titans leaders like Bask and Jamitov, and replacing them with someone new. Titans under new leadership.

>>23815567
One, they're never shown to be bigger than the conventional EFF. Bigger than AEUG probably.
Two, I think it's pretty fucking obvious why the out of control state-within-a-state force that tried to usurp power from the civilian government got disassembled. They both weren't doing their actual job and were a direct threat to the state they were supposed to be serving.
Titans that weren't in too deep reintegrated with the regular EFF, the others either fled, were arrested or threw their lot in with Axis Zeon.
It was too powerful and there were too many bad actors clearly willing to work against the EF in positions of influence to just turf the top brass and call it good. It had to go, which is what happened.
Londo Bell was stood up after the fact to take on essentially the same role but with better leadership and on a tighter leash. More special forces than secret police or SS.
Have you actually watched any of the shows or films we're discussing?

>>23815569
>One, they're never shown to be bigger than the conventional EFF.
They literally had the political power to take over Jaburo. They alsbitelt were the biggest and most powerful. Most of conventional EFF was hollowed out and transferred to the Titans. Whatever was left was just an empty shell and slowly being phased out.

>>23815570
Jaburo, you mean the base of so little ongoing importance that they were happy to nuke it in the hopes it'd hurt Kraba and AEUG?
The point of that op is that it's a symbolic mission of little actual importance that turns into a goatfuck.
>Most of conventional EFF was hollowed out and transferred to the Titans
Are you going to share where you're getting this from? They're shown still being heavily reliant on conventional forces for logistics and have to commandeer conventional forces regularly during the show. They're bigger than they should be but the scale of the conflict in Zeta is absolutely tiny compared to even ZZ.

>>23815577
>Jaburo, you mean the base of so little ongoing importance
Pfft. Nice try. It was clearly still very important since the AEUG wanted to attack and capture it. They thought it would cripple the Titans. You also forget that the Titans took over Solomon and A boa Que. The Titans also built a brand new massive base in Kilaminjaro Mountain.

>>23815580
Anon, the entire point of the Jaburo thing was that it wasn't a strategic target that justified the risk, but AEUG's backers were pushing for it as a demonstration of capability. This is why the actual operational side of AEUG had to have their arm twisted into it, they didn't think it was a particularly good use of their limited resources.
And I didn't forget about any of those other things, they just don't support the idea that the Titans are somehow bigger than the entire EFF.
Do you actually watch these shows or just go by wiki articles?

>>23815616
>AEUG's backers were pushing for it as a demonstration of capability.
...

BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT JABURO WAS VALUABLE TARGET!

....


DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR OWN CIRCULAR LOGIC?

...

The AEUG were taken by complete surprise by the Titans trap. While you can argue that attacking Jaburo head on was a bit ambitious, the AEUG leadership genuinely thought they had a chance to WIN! Jaburo was still thought to be a good target. They had no idea the Titans laid a trap and the entire operation was a failure from the start. Even Quattro was surprised by what was going on.

>>23815668
Anon you are a little bit retarded if you don't understand that you can attack a location without thinking that attack will win you the entire war.
It being an unexpected trap doesn't change the fact that they knew it wasn't a target worth the effort.

>>23815674
>Anon you are a little bit retarded if you don't understand that you can attack a location without thinking that attack will win you the entire war.
It was definitely a planned near-decapitation strike intended to severely injure the Titans.


>It being an unexpected trap doesn't change the fact that they knew it wasn't a target worth the effort.
You are the one who doesn't get it.

Some in AEUG thought attacking Jaburo was too ambitious for them and not a good use of their limited resources. But that doesn't mean Jaburo doesn't have value. Learn the difference.

1. One means it would require a big investment of resources take the base, but the rewards would be good. AEUG would be risking a lot.

2. The other means Jaburo lacks any value and attacking it is pointless.


The AEUG clearly thought of Option 1

>>23802810
I felt they were a bit underwhelming. They were evil but there really wasnt much fanaticism for an organization that is touted as the Space SS. I mean sure Jerid mentions Earthnoid supremacy once or twice but then that becomes
>might makes right
In Dakar
And from then on it was more about his personal ambition.
Than scirocco hijacks the entire thing and it really just becomes an organization full of careerist assholes.

The alliance with Axis was stupid imo.
Again id have loved to see more fanaticism from them considering what.

Earth has been irreparable damaged from colony drops
The Human population has dangerously fallen to critical levels
MILLIONS of Orphans and Widows are created ALL BECAUSE of a conflict Spacenoids started.

Like there should be levels of Hate, Revanchanism and Fanaticism that rivals SEED factions. Not just arrogance and career advancement. Yes the EFF has won the war, but the cost it came with is far far more greater than what Zeon had lost. You can always build another colony. But Half of Australia and other places left scared from Stardust will never be the same ever again.
>But I like it; Because it is bitter/And because it is my heart.

>>23815791
100% agree. Tomino likes to talk about realism but he's a bit cowardly when it come portraying true emotions and hate. Earthnoids would have such a deep hatred for spacenoids that it wouldn't just randomly disappear in 6 years. Zeon dropped 3 colonies on the Earth. And fought battles all across the planet. Entire cities and towns were destroyed and evacuated. Half of the planet died. The hatred would exceed anything seen even in Gundam Seed. They would absolutely support the Titans 100%. Even if 1 colony got accidentally gassed, most of the general Earthnoid public would just shrug and say "oh well. We suffered far worse. It's not a good thing but This is just karma for all spacenoids did to us. They should suffer too. "

If anything, AEUG should have been a pure spacenoid movement. Basically a diet Zeon movement (much weaker), but they are the "good guys".

But Tomino is so cowardly. He doesn't believe regular humans can be so hatefilled. I will Tomino credit. He experienced war and how it can devastate cities, but he did not experience hatred. Tomino doesn't understand that some acts of war can't be forgiven easily. He's an optimist at his core.

>Yes the EFF has won the war, but the cost it came with is far far more greater than what Zeon had lost.

There's also the fact that the Zeon home colonies were left untouched. No major battles took place there. The only thing Zeon lost were soldiers, territory, and some asteroid bases used by the military. Meanwhile Earth is left horribly scarred by all the battles fought on every continent. Plus Zeon nuked the 2/3rds of the space fleet with Gp02 and probably killed millions of troops. These were probably the surviving children of the one year war. Kids who wanted to serve and help rebuild the Federation. Imagine being a wife. You lose your husband and oldest son during the OYW. Then your youngest son enlists but dies during 0083. That hatred for Zeon doesn't just disappear overnight. It stays for life.

>>23815448
It's absolutely bizarre. Like, I got the HGUC Hi-Zack recently and it's very adorable, an outdated cop still doing his best and not knowing what his government is doing, whereas my Barzam next to it looks like it's killed people. You have a terrifying shark-thing that you find out took some cues from the Mk-II... and then it's just new fodder?

>>23816343
"Good cop, Bad cop" routine.

Good cop = Hizack. The type of cop to give you a parking ticket.

Bad cop = Barzam. The SWAT team member you call to bust down the door of a drug house and arrest a violent drug lord.

>>23816343
If the Barzam entered production 2 weeks earlier, the Titans would have won the war. Nemos were no match for Barzam.

>>23809648
>>23809660
>>23809700
>>23809798
>It can just roll for a broadside with the primary cannons, which took me longer to realise than I care to admit.

>It can't even do a proper broadside since only one turret can aim sideways. And that's only if the gun tilts the barrel a full 90 degrees upward. Which is very awkward.

After doing some databook digging, I found out none of these situations are possible. The cannon turret has a limited directional rotation and the barrel has elevation limits. The barrel can't aim straight up either. Aiming your turrets and barrels too high disables them. This issue also applies to the Salamis ships as well. The whole ship must turn to face the enemy head on. Or in the case of the Salamis, the side turrets aren't used at all during broadsides.

>>23816344
Yeah. Basically, yeah. I have little to no Titans suits and I wanted the Barzam to have a friend, but the Hi-Zack looks too cute and well-meaning. I'm thinking of getting the Marasai for it and just have them be two bumbling Team Rocket-tier villains who aren't really horrible people, just clueless about the Titans.
>>23816350
This sounds like Titans apologist propaganda, the Barzam's a jobber, albeit an intimidating one

>>23816366
which salamis, all of them? refits, the kai, etc?

>>23816184
My headcannon theory is that its because it would uncomfortably remind them of the resentment held against Japan that lasts to this day.

>>23816366
What the fuck is with EFSF ship design.

>>23816387
I know it affected Salamis during the One Year War Salamis and 0083 era Salamis. I haven't checked Zeta Salamis yet, but since they are just a cheap refit of OYW Salamis, then I would assume the limitation also affects them too.

>>23815791
>>23816184
Wasn't most of the humanity already living in space? This 3 colony thing seems wrong (it was just 1 iirc). Also, it is mentioned that half of total human population was wiped out, not Earth.

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>>23816527
Zeta era Salamis Kai had beam cannon turrets replacing the windowed towers on the left and right sides of the OYW Salamis, and gundam wiki claims they can rotate to fire upward and downward in the way that you said they couldn't and fuck knows if anything is trustable

in any case, most depictions of the Salamis are generally consistent, in the Origin the Magellans can perform a traditional broadside but the Salamis in the same battle are required to point at the enemy for best firepower forward. In 0083 when Cima sinks the Salamis cruisers that were escorting the Albion when it first goes into space, she approaches from a steep "upward" angle relative to the Salamis and their beam cannons aren't very good at firing to intercept.

>>23816560
Having to point at your enemy isn't the worst idea in space since you're presenting a smaller target, but not having the flexibility to do anything else in a pinch is pretty silly.

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>>23816573
In that way the Musai punches above its "light cruiser" classification, since it has 6 beam cannons that can rotate to cover the frontal 180 degree arc or maybe even slightly wider. However it's completely vulnerable from the rear and underside, and in the really old lore it didn't even have defensive AA guns.

Here, have a fan redesign of the Musai.

>>23809798
>The EFSF is allergic to putting point defence on the 'undersides' of their ships for whateve reason but that's hardly unique to either of them.
Because these ships physically land and dock with colonies and cities son the moon. There are several scenes where we see Salamis parked on the ground on its belly. So putting a bema cannon there makes no sense.

>>23816640
Even if we assume the best way to land is directly on the belly and not landing gear of some kind, that still doesn't excuse absolutely zero coverage. It limits options but shouldn't entirely exclude any coverage of the arc.

>>23816643
I get what you’re saying, but you’re assuming UC designers are trying to solve it the same way you are.

Even a few guns on the bottom isn’t just “extra coverage". The underside is used for Mobile Suit/ship launches, recovery, and docking systems. It's also used for cargo and other system spaces. That underside isn’t empty space, it’s packed with essential ship functions. They have to put these ship systems somewhere.

And in practice, UC ships don’t really use the underside as a main firing arc anyway. If something is there, it’s handled by Mobile Suits or by repositioning the ship.

>>23816669
I'd probably be a lot more forgiving if we at least saw ships travelling in formations to provide mutual protection of those blind spots, instead of setting up like they're about to get into a naval battle.

>>23816672
>I'd probably be a lot more forgiving if we at least saw ships travelling in formations to provide mutual protection of those blind spots,
How would this work? Some ships flying upside down?

>>23816556
OYW had 1 colony and Stardust was the second drop. Wiping out half a continent from the globe and there is no reason to say the second drop wasnt as bad. So yeah by the time of Zeta, Earthnoids are pretty wrecked.

Plus we see major cities like New York be apocalyptic ruins. All the civilians encountered on earth in the show as White Base went around were refugees living in makeshift camps, plus we also see the ecological damage which will lead to famine.
Its common sense to assume that majority of humanity lives on earth. If it was only a small percentage who refused to move to space. Why would the EFF/Titans be so powerful and why would Char be so adamant in having Axis drop be the final push needed to get humanity to move from the cradle?
Zeon also was pretty ruthless to their fellow spacenoids in attacking EFF allied colonies and neutral colonies.

The only enigma are the Lunarians. Im sure Earthnoid nationalists would call the moon a rightful part of Earth and there would be EFF sympathizers on the moon but theres also Independent minded Lunarians which im sure would turn into a Ukraine situation.

But Zeon and Zeek sympathizers do not get enough in universe hate for the damage they have caused.

>>23816680
Probably, or some screening ships better built for AA/AMS work. Maybe draw on some real historical bomber formations.
If you did a stacked V formation then you'd have the bottom ship able to better cover the undersides of the two on top, and then your mobile suit force can focus on the underside of a single ship instead of three.
Or literally anything just throw me a bone here Tomino.

>>23816685
>Probably, or some screening ships better built for AA/AMS work.
I think the Salamis class WAS the screening ship. They were designed to screen and protect Magellan class ships from enemy space fighters.

>>23816689
>Salamis class WAS the screening ship
Oh that's grim.

>>23816560
>gundam wiki claims they can rotate to fire upward and downward in the way that you said they couldn't and fuck knows if anything is trustable

Different anon here. I tried a long time ago to edit and make corrections to Gundam wiki. But the senior users gave me a hard time. They would revert my edits, restrict access to articles, and limited it. I gave up after a while. The the people running the gundam wiki make it too hard for people to join and make changes. They are too controlling.

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>>23816643
>It limits options but shouldn't entirely exclude any coverage of the arc.
>>23809798
>The EFSF is allergic to putting point defence on the 'undersides' of their ships for whateve reason but that's hardly unique to either of them.

They tried it before on Salamis (Pic related). The added guns on the belly didnt really make much of a difference. It bought the ship maybe 4 extra seconds (?) before the Gelgoog weaved around the beam defenses and blew up the ship.

>>23816734
One might think that the issue is trying to use ship-to-ship cannons for point defence work.

>>23805115
>guy
A terrorist sympathizer

Speaking of Tomino being good at ridiculing villain factions, that's one of the genius things about zanscare and the motorized MS abd ships, yes, it's stupid as fuck, zanscare is run by idiots!

>>23816681
It's really simple. The Federation is so shitty and evil that even Zeon is preferable. People can forgive a massacre or two if it meant the Federation gets overthrown. Mafty was the most enlightened of these groups for having the revolutionary idea of going "What if instead of killing millions of people we just kill these 20-30 specific people?" and the public loved Mafty so much even the guys trying to stop him knew he had a point.

>>23816737
How do you know it's a ship to ship cannon?

>>23817498
Because it's a beam cannon around the width of a mobile suit's leg.

>>23817513
And?

>>23817536
And what?

>>23817513
Mobile suits and mobile armors wield huge beam cannons. Barrel size doesn't determine if it's an anti-mobile suit or not.

Look at Xi Gundam. The beam fired from its beam rifle is half the size of some mobile suits.

>>23817498
Because if that's the size you need for anti-air then it'd suggest those smaller guns are all for point defence in a setting where the munitions you'd need point defence for are basically useless.

>>23817629
Point defense is for shooting down incoming missiles and rockets. You don't use point defense for shooting down fighter jets. They are too fast for that.

>>23817637
First, munitions are generally faster than the aircraft firing them.
Second, re-read what I said. If those are all just point defence in a setting with limited need for point defence, and the only guns capable of engaging mobile suits are the massive ones with terrible traverse and firing angles, then everyone designing ships in UC is dumber than I thought.

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>>23802810
Disclosure: I fucken hated Z Gundam

>>23817639
And how exactly are you supposed to shoot down incoming mobile suits that too far away for smaller ship weapons?

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>>23817654
now I know what to post to annoy you, take this mediocre art

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>>23817657
close.
try ZZ designs next time.

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>>23817658
he said Z not ZZ

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>>23817659
>RX-178 Mk II Gundam
anon, that's the only designed I liked from Zeta...

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>>23817664
well, mission accomplished, I guess

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>>23817664
Here, have some alt-favorites

>>23817639
>If those are all just point defence in a setting with limited need for point defence,
In gundam isn't every cannon is point defense? Mobile suits move so fast and close the distance so quickly.

>>23817658
That's clearly a Unicorn design though

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>>23817712
Z really set the bar for pushing these designs as "mobile"

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>>23816343
and the garibaldy beta is the police chief

i want to sniff kamille's feet after he takes off his normal suit after a long sortie

>>23817743
I didn't feel that strongly about the Galbaldy, even though I appreciated the pilot. It's just a slight step above a Gelgoog (like the Hi-Zack is for the Zaku I guess?) but was otherwise just... there for a bit. Missed getting the rather cheap and readily available kit, could you sell me on the Galbaldy

>>23817477
>a corrupt bureaucratic government is somehow worse than a radical extremist spacenoid movement that fucked up the earth.

>>23817639
>First, munitions are generally faster than the aircraft firing them.
Not in Gundam. We have several scenes in UC Gundam with pilots out-running missiles that are chasing their mobile suit. Missile performance is pretty bad in Gundam.

>>23818304
>implying it wasn't the bureaucratic government's fault for draining the Earth's resources dry and then doing the same to the space colonies, instead of doing the right thing and spending resources to rehabilitate the planet

The Federation is responsible for ruining millions if not billions of lives over decades. Making the mother of all omelets means that you can't fret over every egg.

>>23818330
Dropping colonies and starting wars accelerates that problem though dont it? Especially when Australia has one of the worlds largest deposits of vital earth minerals like Lithium and Uranium both of which are the most sought-after elements in the current green revolution.

Zeon pretty much perma fucked Earth by destroying humanities largest and vital mine outside of China. Which im sure China is fucked in UC as climate change would have severely flooded key regions.

Mighty convinient for spacenoids to suddenly be humanities lifeline with Jovian Helium exports and Lunarian metals. Totally wouldnt have those governments abuse that power in the same manner Zeeks accuse the Feddies hmmm?

>>23818357
>Zeon pretty much perma fucked Earth by destroying humanities largest and vital mine outside of China
by the time of the UC, asteroid mining is a thing and the main generator of resources for earth and the colonies.

>>23818357
>Which im sure China is fucked in UC as climate change would have severely flooded key regions.
China is screwed because Char dropped an asteroid on China during the opening of CCA. It was enough to vaporize an entire city and I'm sure had additional environmental effects.

>>23817276
I've only just started Victory and Zanscare feels weird. Unlike the various Zeon factions or even the Titans as a response, there is no noble cause, no righteous ideals, these niggas are just whackos that need to be put down. Cronicle looks at least like an actual human being instead of a parody of one so far, but idk how that's going to develop since it looks like the EF doesn't even have anything to their name anymore

>>23818362
nah, there's still stuff on earth. zeon still extracted tons of resources from odessa and the feds would have had to do the same thing on earth to raise an army of GMs and new warships to send into space.

but yeah, asteroid mining is preferred especially because it meant easy material for the colonies and not needing to use rockets to bring resources from earth into space, except at the beginning before they had any space infrastructure

>>23818418
>Yeah its not great but its not horrible.
Honestly I thought it was horrible. Not some affront to God but just really bad. Absolutely no idea why they went out of their way to make it not!Blazar. This franchise is no stranger to whorish crossovers, and whether or not they should be done is a whole different conversation, but I would have definitely liked that crossover way more just at a baseline if it was actually a Blazar crossover.

>>23818457
anon... this isn't the ultraman general...

>>23803017
A lot of Hizacks got dumped into the civilian market as mil surplus, I.E. the Honby Hizack

>>23818452
Zanscare are religious extremists not purely ideological extremists. They invented a religion around their Newtype queen and their mommy issues and are trying to force it on the rest of humanity.

I always found it funny how in canon, Feddies dropped perfectly good designs like the Barzam because of Titans associations, yet the constant Zeon remnant forces hold no such stigma for reusing Zeon designs, and even the Feds themselves used them without issues during Zeta.

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>>23819116
The Zeon are really proud about it. Including the Colony drop.

>>23819121
I thought the expression was Sieg Zeon. Or was that not coined until Garma's state funeral?

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>>23819216
depends how zeekaboo you're feeling

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>>23817792
I love the galbaldy more because of its history. Being the last suit that zeon made the galbaldy alpha was taken by the federation after the war due to its specs and lack of funds.
Which then turned it into the galbaldy beta which truly shows how ahead of its time it was as a mobile suit it was. From what i remember it has the same specs as the alpha but only with minor additions and it has that kinghtish and powerhouse look to him thats reminisent of the gyan and gelgoog combined with that efsf blocky astheatic but still reteaning the classic zeon parts (like in the legs or backshirt)

>>23819261
Ok I knew it was probably based on the Gelgoog but I didn't know about that, it does look pretty menacing. I just thought at the time that I already had Char's Gelgoog and only Lila (and Jerid) piloted it (turns out it's a MP suit) so I just glanced over it. I'll definitely give it a proper chance when it's in stock! Upwards AND forward shoulder movement, looks like engineering-wise it's state of the art, at least in terms of gunpla. In-universe-wise, eh. Apparently the Marasai came after it, even though the kit itself's fairly ancient. So it'd probably fit itself as the police chief as you said, an older model but one difficult to handle, yet very capable in the right hands.

>>23819121
No different than americans justifying Hiroshima

>>23805838
>AEUG was being secretly funded by space corporations
They were funded by Jews, and I wish I was fucking kidding lmao. It's kinda crazy how the majority of post OYW UC lore is actually unironically Jewish manipulation of politics to sell more mobile suits and lead to more deaths for...Zionism lmao