>>2070403

Why don't you try it instead of making this dumb thread

>>2071088
Yeah you're understanding countersteering correctly, sure you can lean the bike to turn but that's slow, countersteering allows the rider to whip the bike and make really fast switchbacks and bikes can whip so much harder than motorcycles, motorcycles have speed on their side but all that weight slows the steering a lot, even the lightest motorcycle can't whip as hard as a bicycle. I ride both btw, 20 years of riding motorcycles and 30 years of bicycles

So counter steering is a phenomena first before a technique. It happens because when a turn is first initiated, the upper part of the bike will want to counter act the movement by rotating outward, which is then used to whip the momentum towards the inside of the turn. The phenomena is similar to balancing a broom vertically in the palm, the top of the broom will counter act movement from the bottom.

Now, a lot of resources say push left go left is the only correct way and pull style is wrong but I'm a big advocate for learning pull style riding (pull right go left). I was like 4 years old when I self realized the bike counter steers but I didn't learn about push style counter steering until I got my motorcycle license at 18, I say both push and pull style are correct. Pull style let's one hang off the bars during really hard cornering, it's fun

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>>2071214
are you sure you're not talking about counterleaning, a low speed (or high speed if you are cop who needs to look out for things other than physics) maneuver because
>pull right handle/push left handle
the bike would simply tip to the left while turning to the right, for the brief moment it can until it hits the ground (or you use your bodyweight to lean back upright or into the turn, or you be not a moron and turn normally by leaning in with your body weight and pointing the front wheel where you want the bike to go)

>>2071215
Counter leaning is a completely different thing, it's a technique first before a physical phenomena. Yes it's used for low speed handling but the deeper reason for counter leaning is for smooth momentum shifting, hold the body where the momentum needs to go on order to lean the bike harder. So a bike turns using the same principle as a cone rolling, counter leaning helps point the bike for the next turn and so that transition from shifting past the balance point to turn the opposite way. Anyways, now that I'm thinking about it, initiating a turn using counter steering does indeed induce a counter lean but only so that momentum can be shifted into the turn if going fast enough. Singletrack dynamics of very dynamic compared to dual track for wheeled vehicle, a single track vehicle is basically an oscillating wave where the body naturally counter leans against the direction of the tire tracking

>>2071221
>the body naturally counter leans against the direction of the tire tracking
so you lean to the left when you're in a right turn, while pulling your left handlebar and pushing the right? this is how you are saying bikes turn now?

>>2071222
Let's say you're turning right, when you push the right side of the handlebar (or pull the left side), the steering will point left, this will cause a momentary counter lean before the balance point shifts and the handle bars point right, turning that initial counter lean onto a lean in turn, it's up to the right when to shift that weight center to straighten out and exit, or counter lean again for a switchback.

>>2071223
>it's up to the right
>It's up to the rider*

>>2071223
use case for doing this on a vehicle you weigh five times more than where you can skip that whole process by bending your waist a little? on motorcycles that is essential but that is because they weigh like 500 pounds and the rider can't heave the bike over easily, compared to a bike that weighs maybe 15 that you can waggle around willy nilly without steering at all

>>2071225
I would argue it's the opposite, because a motorcycle weighs so much the center of gravity starts within the bike where on a bicycle the human mass plays a much much larger role in the vehicle dynamics and so the human needs to really understand how to whip their weight around. Anyways, in both cases, riding either requires the human to be part of the handling dynamics, there's a reason it's called riding instead of driving.

>>2071226
>center of gravity stays within the bike
I fucking hate autocorrect now, even since ai enhanced auto correction came around my swipe texting got fucked

>>2071226
thanks chatgpt but you are wrong and inertia exists

>>2071228
By saying inertia exists you're supporting my argument because the inertia of a motorcycle outweighs the bicycle by like 100x making the human dynamic even more important on a bicycle. You basically just said you don't understand the physics of bikes

>>2071229
you are literally saying that it is faster to turn your bike and wait for it to fall than it is to shift your center of gravity with your body, and now you're renegging on it saying no totally it's possible and advisable to shift your cog even on a heavy motorbike by just bending at the waist

>>2071242
Imagine being so dumb you have to resort to misunderstanding everything I said and asserting your wrong assumptions onto my words. You're not worth interacting anymore because you misunderstood everything I said and fail to understand bike handling. Stay slow scrub

>>2071088
It is literally impossible to ride a two wheeled machine without counter steering
Every single time you turn the bars to the left, you do that by first trying to turn the bar to the right
Get on your bicycle, start riding, and consciously and deliberately try to turn the bars to the right by pushing forward on the left bar and pulling back on the right bar. You will find you are going left.

>>2071258
You can’t turn a bike with body weight. You can initiate a steering input using your body weight, and that steering input will first be in the opposite direction of the way you are trying to turn. This is more difficult to demonstrate to yourself, but you can do it by totally fixing your bars in place. You will find that you can only very very subtly move the bike left or right if the bars can’t move. There is plenty of slow motion video on YouTube of this effect.
https://youtu.be/llRkf1fnNDM?si=GSbZ1qMw6iIbT4A-

>>2071214
Phenomena is plural. You want "a phenomenon".

>>2071258
This. If you turn the wheel to point to your right, your bike will go left. This is SIMPLE PHYSICS.

>>2071258
to balance it in a straight line maybe but to actually steer you can just move your body and turn the wheel towards where you want to go.

>>2071277
no you cant
if you strictly turned the bike where you wanted to go you would immediately fall over
you have to initiate a turn by counter steering
it is not possible to turn without counter steering
everytime in your life that you have turned the handlebars left while riding, you have done that at first by turning them right. to keep them pointed the way you want you MUST put torque in the opposite direction.
it is not possible to do otherwise

>>2071352
nah i just lean my body over

>>2071412
Retard, leaning right causes your handlebars to turn left, which tips your bike to the right
You’re initiating counter steering with a weight transfer. It’s still countersteering
Are you thick? Can you read? I already explained this

>>2071417
>leaning right causes your handlebars to turn left,
no it doesn't. I am holding onto them and in fact begin to turn them to the right as well, causing me to be able to turn whilst balancing out the forces attempting to bring the bike back upright and over to the left with my torso leaning further out into the turn than my contact patches

It is literally impossible to lean on a bike. The only way to pivot it left and right is to countersteer. Are you stupid?

>>2071434
>literally impossible to lean on a bike
Skill issue, I lean

>>2071423
thats what you think youre doing, but youre not
you are turning them left before you turn them right on a right turn
this is easy to see in any high speed film of bikes turning, which youtube is replete with
are you really stupid or am i being trolled

>>2071494
This. When you want to turn to the right, you push the handlebars to point LEFT. This is Counter Steering and it is the foundation of Bicycle Physics. It is literally impossible to turn otherwise.

>>2071200
No.

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It's a way pseuds describe how to corner. Don't overthink cornering. Just lean the bike or lean yourself to lean the bike. Shrimple as

>>2071618
You can't turn on a bike by leaning.

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>>2071628
>

>>2071645
cat :)

It's fucking wild that 90% of cyclists literally don't know how to turn. No wonder people run you over so often.

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talking about countersteering is retarded
this shit comes naturally to anyone, what's the big deal

>>2071690
>dont understand you have to counter steer
>you turn just by feel, not realizing you’re counter steering
>in a panic situation you really yank the bars in exactly the wrong way
>get turned into pink mist
This is (I was told on traffic safety class as a youth) a very common form of bicycle crash.

>>2071708
there's a difference between people who can ride naturally and people who ride by autism, and then people who can barely ride at all. I'm in the first camp, you're in the second, and the people you described in your post are in the third.

I ride a bike like a fish swims. there's no thinking about anything, I just do it. if you consciously have to do anything including countersteer to ride, sucks to be you, but enjoy your rides any way you want to. the third class, well, there's no fixing stupid.

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>>2071708
>in a panic situation you really yank the bars in exactly the wrong way
I've avoided crashing by looking where I want to go and just naturally going that way while going a little too fast one time. I think you're justifying why you find bike riding challenging and projecting that insecure feeling onto everyone as if everyone is the same as you. We're not nigga

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>>2071708
>>2071628
I have a feeling you're one of those guys who buy those 200 dollar brooks saddles because of a youtube video