nuV6s are trash
https://www.thedrive.com/news/total-bs-engine-teardown-specialist-says-toyotas-explanation-for-v6-failures-doesnt-make-sense

>>28909835
Nothing wrong with v6s

>>28909835
Beware the GNX autists.

>>28909843
What's gay is putting it in a V8 car and larping like it's the real thing.

There's no such thing as a "muscle car"

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In 1968, the top-trim V8s (not just the normal big V8s) were running high 13s with one or two in the low 13s. Picrel 13.5.
A V6 Chally does 15s.
A 20 year old Subaru 4-cylinder does low 13s.
Really makes you think.

>>28909835
Yeah, EV muscle car is where its at.

I raise you with 4 clyinder turbo "muscle" cars

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>>28909856
That is a thing that exists.

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>>28909857
that's a sports car and so is the Camaro. 4 cylinder muscle cars don't exist, unless the Chysler LX cars came with 4 cylinders.

>>28909858
True sports cars only have 2 seats. The muscle car was designed to be a sports car you could throw your kids in the back of and daily.

>>28909863
>the 911 and every GT ferrari is now a muscle car

>>28909865
Don't be ridiculous. It needs a V8 to be a muscle car.

>>28909867
hence why the 4 cylinder Camaro and Mustang are sports cars.

>>28909869
No, they're economy cars designed to trick non-car enthusiast normies into thinking you have the real deal.

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>>28909869
They're low budget grocery getters, nothing more.

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>>28909871
No, you're describing things like the GR Yaris and Miata. the Camaro was actually built for handling. like a true sports car.

>>28909874
see>>28909878
the low budget grocery getter is a better sports car than the miata/gr86/yaris GR.

>>28909878
Keep the word "Miata" out of your mouth you rentalspec nigger

>>28909887
the miata is rental spec, unlike a real sports car.

>>28909893
So why didn't you get the V8?

>>28909894
the miata doesn't even come with a V8. why are you defending it?

>>28909895
Answer my question rentalspec nigger, why didn't you get the V8 Camaro? Is it because you're poor and brown?

>>28909898
If i was poor and brown, wouldn't i be defending the miata? (doesn't even come with a V8).

>>28909899
The Miata isn't a race car, but it handles better than your rentalspec autotragic larp box and is designed as a toy for true driving enthusiasts.
Now tell me, why did you get a V6 camaro and not a V8?

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>>28909835
my dad has an 06 mustang v6 (convertible)
It’s plenty car for him, hes not a very good driver in his old age and just likes to go cruising and pinching whores tiddys
hed probably kill himself with a gt v8
nonetheless it’s hella fun to cruise around in

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>>28909903
>but it handles better
lol

>>28909908
Being a faggy benchracer makes you a faggot. Also, barely winning with over 100 more HP just proves my point.
Why didn't you get a V8 camaro? Last chance to answer or confirmed brown and poor.

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True car enthusiast Randy Pobst went from driving a miata to a 4 cylinder Camaro for its superior handling. He didn't like the body roll of the miata's rental spec chassis.

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>>28909908
Nothing screams "handling" like a track made of straights and wide sweepers.

>>28909911
>retard didn't see the several second gap from the camaro when put on actual summer tires
>both the miata and the camaro have the same acceleration times
>meaning the camaro is making up all the time in the corners
lol

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>>28909903
How can it be a race car if it's just the most raced car

>>28909913
Did you conveniently ignore streets of willow? a track randy himself says the miata is "right at home on" ?

loving the cope from all these butthurt fags defending a 4 cylinder rental car that doesn't even come with a V8 whilst crying about V8s.

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>>28909916
>Did you conveniently ignore streets of willow?
I picked the other one because the difference was larger.
Streets of Willow has 4 technical corners but is still a lot of wide stuff (most tracks are).
If the Miata with over 100 fewer hp is within a second there, that doesn't bode well for the Camaro "handling better."
I'm not crying about V8s at all, I'm a 4-cyl guy. I do have a manual pentastar, but it's in a Wrangler.

>>28909924
>>28909916
>>28909913
>>28909908
why are you tards arguing track times when you know damn well at most 99.9 percent of the use case of these cars in a sporting capacity is a spirited onramp pull at best

>>28909924
Thanks for the cope, but i'll trust Randy Pobst who actually raced miatas himself on which track the miata is good on over some Initial D faggot.

also see>>28909914
the miata has the same acceleration times at the camaro, and you seemed to miss the
>1:25.75
time the camaro got on actual summer tires. Despite the miata having every advantage, it lost, and loses even more when the cars are on an even playing field on a track Randy Pobst has said favors cars like the miata.

cope.

>>28909925
I agree. How a car feels on the street is what actually matters.
But, I used to track and do have some insight. A track made for corvettes with giant sweepers isn't going to test something like a miata made for technical low-speed corners.

>>28909927
You've never raced on streets of willow, randy has, and he doesn't think it's made for corvettes. he thinks it's made for miatas.

You're coping.

>>28909926
Uh sure. Randy this Randy that. The Camaro had 118 more horsepower. I actually race miatas too. Wow. That track has several technical corners, more than most tracks, and is better for testing out miatas than most, but it still rewards power more for lap times than handling.

>>28909931
>You've never raced on streets of willow, randy has, and he doesn't think it's made for corvettes.
Yeah I live like 2,000 miles away. He might think it's for Corvettes, did you ask him? Hockenheim Short is definitely more for Corvettes, as are most tracks. A track that's "good for miatas" doesn't necessarily imply it gives them a time advantage, just that there are tight corners to play with.

>>28909933
>Guy who actually raced on streets of willow this, guy who actually raced on streets of willow that, but you see, i don't understand what gearing or power to weight ratio is, so car with bigger number must be going faster even if acceleration times are the same
>tire compound difference? what's that?
>believe my arm chair knowledge of a track i've never been to on how technical it is over someone who has
lol

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>>28909936
Forgot pic. This is THE track in my area, but it's totally for muscle cars. None of the other tracks for 500 miles will let you on.

>>28909936
>He might think it's for Corvettes

The camaro also might just handle better. given all the evidence that points to it. did you consider that inside of hinging on this one cope?

Does being on summer tires vs all seasons give a car an advantage?
What about having a better chassis?

did you consider any of these things?

>>28909858
those are pony cars

>>28909938
I know about gearing differences. It's kinda my thing, I talk about it a lot here.
Tighter gearing rewards small technical corners, not straights and sweepers.

>>28909941
Shame because sector 1 is pure handling. Needs more imagination for the rest of the lap though.

>>28909942
>did you consider any of these things?
Yes, I did.
I like the Camaro, it's one of 3 cars from this decade I'd buy. But let's be real here, it isn't doing technical corners like a Miata. The camaro you throttle through shit like a brute, the miata dances around smoothly, I like both but prefer the latter.
And yes, tires make a big difference, obviously.

>>28909944
Then you're starting to realize why the horsepower difference doesn't matter if neither of those cars can come anywhere near their top speed on streets of willow, a more technical oriented track, and why the miata is actually at home on something like it. not a corvette that tops out around 200 and streets of willow having nowhere to reach that speed.

Neither the corvette or miata could even do 100 MPH on any straight of streets of willow.

>>28909948
>The camaro you throttle through shit like a brute, the miata dances around smoothly
Given the camaro is stable through the technical corners of streets of willow while the miata isn't and induces unwanted body roll, according to randy, the opposite is actually true.

You're Initial D mindset about how cars work is showing.

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>>28909945
>Shame because sector 1 is pure handling.
Mildly, it's a handling test for high speed cars but they're fairly wide and reward power. One of 'em is a little tricky at least.
https://youtu.be/qRf-7GWJIWk

>>28909954
Neither the camaro nor maita*

>>28909943
Pony car is just a sub-category of sports car like Super car and Hyper car.

>>28909957
>Given the camaro is stable through the technical corners of streets of willow while the miata isn't and induces unwanted body roll, according to randy
Oh, body roll, that's the sign of handling. I drive hard, I've done so for a long time. I know what I've experienced and that's all that matters. I've driven older V8 manual Camaros hard, but I haven't driven the new ones or every car to ever exist. Have you driven miatas hard?
It should be obvious to you that a miata would be better suited for a tight technical track, and that would be a better measure of handling than a track made for rewarding 500 hp muscle cars.
A miata weighs 1,000 lbs less than the lightest modern Camaros, it makes a difference.

>>28909835
If you have only 6 cylinders they better in-line or flat

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>>28909964
I have no dog in this race but just to put it out there as a data point the 08 corvette z06 only weighs 500lbs more than the mx5

>>28909967
Twin turbo, inline, or flat. Only the nissan Z/G/Q NA V6 cars are the acceptable V6's

>>28909970
>08 corvette z06
>3,162 lbs
Miatas are 2,300. That's almost 40% heavier than a miata. Not bad though, I like Corvettes and Camaros too.

>>28909964

you're arguing with the camarocel

he doesn't actually drive cars he benchraces and claims he owns one but never has actually driven it hard

its a waste of time he's like a japanese holdout after hirohitos surrender gm doesnt even pay people for shilling a car they dont make anymore

>>28909970

a c6 z06 is not a base model camaro

>>28909972

actually yeah every car company fucks up v6s somehow i sorta agree

vw vr6 is cool too but that's more of a inline than v and the toyota v6s are adequate for commuting but get shitty when you put them behind a manual

>>28909975
what i got on my google search was the (heaviest) spec mx5 is 2425 while the vette is 3162 curb
so about 737 pounds more, pretty impressive for American muscle but then again its like all carbon fiber body etc on the vette
i just feel like you’re doing american muscle a disservice here desu

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>>28909979
>he doesn't actually drive cars he benchraces and claims he owns one but never has actually driven it hard
Yeah I got that vibe. I may have redlined more today than he has in his life.

>>28909979
> c6 z06 is not a base model camaro
fair, but itll probably be cheaper than a 2027(?) base model camero off the lot lol

>>28909982
737 lbs is still quite a lot when the baseline is 2400. My miat is 2,2xx. I've only got maybe 110 (actual) hp though.
Don't get me wrong, I love Camaros, Mustangs, and Vettes - BMWs and Mercs, too.
But I like miatas because of how they actually handle in practice, you don't get this feeling of a heavy pendulum you're swinging around when you start sliding, it just slides like you tell it to. ugh

>>28909985
Randy has been redlining for longer than you've been alive, and he says you're wrong about streets of willow.

>that's the sign of handling.
So the fat muscle car like the Charger handles better than the miata because it has more body roll?
>know what I've experienced and that's all that matters
You've never experienced streets of willow, so what are you drawing from that suggest it's for muscle cars despite the fact that they can't even come near their top speeds?
>Have you driven miatas hard?
I've driven tin can shitboxes at high speeds that weigh less than miatas. wouldn't recommend.
>It should be obvious to you that a miata would be better suited for a tight technical track
It is, which is why randy is saying it's suited for streets of willow, a technical track. You're the only one saying it isn't because you don't like the results. You're coping.
>A miata weighs 1,000 lbs less than the lightest modern Camaros,
A better chassis makes a bigger difference. a yugo weighs less than both. which do you think feels better?
>>28909979
>he doesn't actually drive cars he benchraces
You tards are talking about a track you've never driven on yourself and even when i quite someone who has, you just stick your hand in the sand and insist you're right. you're the benchracing faggots.

>>28909999
bro you arent randy pobst holy shit lmao

even randy pobst raced a miata and tells you to go autocrossing you wont even do what he tells you to do

>>28909999
I couldn't care less about the streets of willow or some other Randy. I care about the street.
There is no objective measure of handling, all the measures you or anyone can give factor in power and tires. I know it when I see it and Miata > Camaro any day. Miatas just fucking do it, you don't have to fight the weight on corner entry or overcome suspension flaws with power. When it goes past the limit of traction you can still control it. That's handling imo.

>>28910004
>be wrong about something
>lol well i have "experience" so might makes right
>shows you someone who has more experience than anyone here who also says you're wrong
>uh, doesn't count cause you aren't him therefore i'm still right

are you mentally ten years old?

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>>28910001
>>28910010

actually yeah we're telling you to stop being a benchracing faggot

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/randy-pobst-autocross-improves-car-control/

https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/2014/02/11/meet-randy-pobst/

follow your leader

>>28910005
>Miata > Camaro any day.
except any day that involves tracks apparently. then the miata fags have to run away saying it isn't technical enough.
>don't have to fight the weight on corner entry
You do, because it exhibits more body roll which slows the car, and by proxy the driver down than if it were completely planted and stable. do you know why race cars, including fully built miatas don't do that?
>it goes past the limit of traction you can still control it
What about a car that simply has a higher limit of traction due to superior chassis dynamics?

>>28910012
Why can't you stop being retarded, instead.

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>>28910018
randy pobst is telling you to race your car not compare his laptimes on 4chan

why dont you race your car you're not randy

do you want me to message him and tell him what you're doing with his lap times

>>28910029
Your parents are telling you to stop being retarded and admit when you're wrong in life. why don't you listen to them?

>>28909963
Pinto is a pony car.
They literally dominated pony class racing for decades.

>V6 bad
>ecoboom GOOD
faggots

>>28910059
>good morning mr V8 sir, i'm just like you right?
sad

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>>28909835
>There is absolutely nothing more pathetic on this earth than a V6 "muscle car"
You mean like this one?
Yes, weak and slow

is this the kita summoning ritual

>>28909854
50 years of engineering and innovation gives you better tires, better weight distribution, new traction management systems including TCS, launch control, and eLSDs, higher horsepower and more efficient engines, and better shifting transmissions.

now compare the hellcat to the V6 and really be prepared to be blown away

>>28909905
despite being literal hairdressers cars base model verts are kind of their own thing. no sporty aspirations whatsoever, just croozin

>>28909835
Why are they called "muscle cars"? They're not particularly powerful.

>>28910124
not a muscle car
>>28910721
big motor like big muscle

>>28909835
Wrenchlet weeb subhuman
>>28909844
Gnx was not a muscle car

>>28910786
The GNX was the only real muscle car of the 80s. Everything with a V8 was 200hp trash.

>>28910754
>not a muscle car
Hmmm - loads of power, loads of torque, good handling, great acceleration. Why doesn't it count?

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>>28910059

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>>28910797
Because those qualities alone don't define a muscle car?
The 2017 Ford GT is a mid-engine supercar

>>28910815
So define a muscle car

>>28909858
you're correct about the mustang & camaro being sports cars (what we'd call pony cars) but its context sensitive. base model mustangs or chargers muscle cars, it has to have a high output engine. This is USUALLY but not always a V8.

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>>28910816
I know it when I see it

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>>28910124
Isn't that the same engine in the F150s and Explorer?

>>28910124
I'm starting to think people on this car enthusiast board just think any performance car that also happens to have an american badge is a muscle car.

It's like people where know as much about cars as women.

>>28909835
Agreed, I'd rather have an older V8 than a newer V6.

riding the bus like OP is far worse