>>84365016
Do you microwave or air fry leftover lasagna?

>>84365021
Microwave. Cleaning lasagna out of an air fryer would be fucking awful and would probably be more likely to dry it out.

>>84365021
What anon said that would dry it to shit and pasta and cheese already get dry as fuck and have an awful texture in a microwave

>>84365016
Women don't have any of these because autism favors men because of natural selection, women with autism give men the ick and do not reproduce as much as women without autism do, it's that simple

>>84365035
That's now how any part of it works you fucking trog. An autistic man can have a daughter he passes the tism on to. Even if autistic women WERE much less likely to reproduce (which is categorically not true unless they have the specific kind of tism that makes them sex repulsed) that would have no relevant impact on the amount of autistic women that exist.

>>84365082
It is how it works though?
Autistic men = can't have children a majority of the time
Autistic women = can't attract non autistic women most of the time
Therefore, the population goes down in individualistic societies while autistic populations are favored in collectivist societies where children are given partners if they can't make it
Autism = not focused on reproduction, therefore less children, less passing on of genes

>>84365118
You are explaining "autistic people are less sexually successful, so there are less autistic people". This is both completely different from, and borderline irrelevant to, "there are significantly less autistic women than men".

>>84365027
use aluminum foil

>>84365035
>women with autism give men the ick

i've known two women with (high functioning) autism who were good-looking. obviously men liked them and found them endearing. the pattern is that they learn it's not just a bit quirky, it's every bit as infuriating as it is with men.

i wish autistic people all the best. except for my co-worker who deleted all the emails to our company's main email address once HE'D read them. Hell is too good for that man.

>>84365126
That is primarily because autistic people only have a few children. Therefore, the patriarchy has historically led people to prioritize men over women in terms of children as women do not financially benefit the family through farming. I believe I've explained myself fairly well.
>>84365149
Autistic women are also hard to speak to in general. I'm not exactly sure if autistic people are able to feel love in the same way we do.

>>84365118
it's complicated but look up 'regression to the mean'. as a general rule, a population isn't going to have a ton of outliers like autism, even when you have a bunch of autistic breeders passing down a heritable disorder.

>>84365199
Yeah that too, therefore it's hard to preserve a trait like autism. Which is why I believe the Amish and Haredi Jews probably have the highest % of autism.

>>84365174
I was going to explain all the ways you're wrong about even these things but its STILL completely irrelevant to the actual point. The only possible logic you could be trying to present here is a belief that children from parents where one or more has autism are, for whatever reason, overwhelmingly male. The only other possible train of thought is that modern families are culling daughters because they want more sons, but at every point in time there are significantly more women than men.

i wonder if 'awareness' of autism has fucked autists over. in hindsight, my granddad might have been autistic. i can't say for sure obviously, but he had those traits.
but to my grandma in the 1940s, she just saw some guy who loved planes and had a short temper.

ive had a taste of tism logic. i want this shit forever mane

>>84365016
Men with adhd have no trouble dating even with how much they distress their partners
Depression in women dating adhd is a documented and researched thing kek. Men love to whine about how they are given the short stick or how little tolerance people have for their flaws when reality isn't that simple

>>84365174
>Autistic women are also hard to speak to in general
I was dating an autistic woman whom I loved with all my soul, the only person ever to make me feel that way, and this is still how it ended. She was so hard to connect with, even when she wanted it there was this field of aloofness and defenses that I wasn't able to get through consistently. At some point she must have decided I would never get her. It sucks that what brought us together was difficulty in dealing with people yet we need people who know how to deal with us.

>>84365309
This all sounds like complete asspull stuff tbqhonest. All research points to people with ADHD having a significantly harder time keeping relationships going, with nearly double the divorce rate. There's nothing I can find that would point to men having any kind of better odds dating while having ADHD, but even if ADHD guys are 'having no trouble dating', and are causing depression in a lot of women, it is absolutely because they are being romanticized. Hyperactives are being viewed as "hecken wholesome golden retriever BFs" and women are signing up and then regretting it because turns out it's not just a fun disorder. Inattentives are more prone to severe depression themselves as well as existentialism and while some women are 'into' that, it's largely just a multiplier for if you're already hot. In either instance the most common result is a disconnect between the ADHD person and the non-ADHD person, in much the same way you get with tism vs no tism, and due to comorbidity, that disconnect is much less likely to happen between a person with tism and a person with ADHD.

I think my ex gf was autistic, meanwhile
I have ADHD. She was very sweet and would ask me tons of questions about my day or what I was doing, but honestly sometimes it would get super annoying and I wouldn't want to have to tell her every detail only for it to lead to more questions, especially when it involved work, where I really don't like overthinking that stuff - especially if I'm in the middle of a project. I'd have to straight up tell her I don't want to talk about it a lot and I could tell it really upset her, but my work is creative and poring over every detail when you're in the middle of the process is exactly how you kill creativity. I'd ask about her day and stuff instead and she'd usually rant about some movie she watched or something but she'd get so into detail about it that it would just be a total bore to read, like someone else describing a dream they had. It honestly was a bad match in that regard and I felt conversationally she introduced way too much "mental clutter" into my life, even tho I did love her. The worst part though is she was entirely incapable of communicating when she was stressed, she'd just shut down completely and even afterwards we often couldn't have an adult conversation about our issues. Inevitably I would say the wrong thing and she'd have an averse reaction, and then she'd stonewall me again. It was insanely exhausting.

>>84365361
>asspull
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11520260/
>Hyperactives are being viewed as "hecken wholesome golden retriever BFs" and women are signing up and then regretting it because turns out it's not just a fun disorder.
oh? y-you guys are capable of thinking that being chosen superficially at face value might not be the biggest win out there? careful you might start applying that to women
Although I wouldn't be surprised if adhd women are having a harder time keeping with partners since it's generally more acceptable for men to be messy slobs

>>84365380
>incapable of communicating when she was stressed, she'd just shut down completely and even afterwards we often couldn't have an adult conversation about our issues. Inevitably I would say the wrong thing and she'd have an averse reaction, and then she'd stonewall me again. It was insanely exhausting.
this is the worst

>>84365380
Here
>>84365361
Speaking from experience women love me at first because I am eccentric, charismatic, passionate, and highly creative, but then slowly realize that I am actually completely reliant on a pretty rigid and regimented lifestyle to keep up the veneer of competence and productivity that surrounds my positive traits. If I break this structure to please them, I can fall into a pit that secretly lasts for months and spiral into a deep depression and overwhelm that takes even more rigidity to climb my way out of, which suddenly reframes all those positives into deeply unattractive signs of mental illness. It seems increasingly hypocritical the better people get to know me as well; because some factors of my life are totally chaotic and disorganized in contrast. ADHD forces you into eccentric idiosyncrasies to keep yourself functioning.

There are emotional issues too, I have a decent handle on mine now, but RSD is a fucking bitch and when I think people are rejecting me or suggesting I'm not competent enough to do something I know I can do, I'm liable to freak the FUCK out.

Last, meds suck. Me and my ex broke up in the middle of a particularly rough period where I had to Adderall detox because tolerance had built up and my meds weren't fully working anymore, making me depressed and lazy. Detoxing usually takes at least a week and a half of going without my meds, though - during which I am a total fucking wreck and basically can't do anything but cry and listen to music. We broke up because I asked if she could make me a snack after a weekend of me basically just lying on her couch feeling like shit, and it set something off something totally primal in her, triggering a relationship ending argument when really she could have just said no and I would have been like "ok." I think in her case an animus complex and a slobby dad and ex boyfriend prevented her from seeing the situation for what it was, and just like that four years went out the window.

>>84365419
I more meant every other part. I didn't find that study but that was the one thing that made sense because dipshits idealize shit like "yapping about autistic interests" all the time but have 0 understanding of how autists actually work.
You're also projecting shit on me for no reason. I detest superficiality and my refusal to accept people valuing me for superficial reasons, and refusing to adapt to peoples superficial standards, are exactly why I am alone, and here pseudo-yearnposting about wanting an AuDHD GF.

>>84365471
>ADHD forces you into eccentric idiosyncrasies to keep yourself functioning.
kek thats an interesting way to put it. I relate to you a lot but you seem to have it way rougher than I do with your ADHD

>>84365471
Yeah this all sounds about right + a lot is relatable. The last girl I showed interest in said she wasn't into me because I didn't "see the beauty in the world around me" and similar shit like that. Of course, this is in the fallout of getting cheated on and having every single possible aspect of my life become a complete dumpster fire. Prior to all of that I was a complete neurotic mess in a doomspiral over feeling I was alone because I was a terrible person and that the only way for me to not be a terrible person was for someone to help me, and I was only barely managing to hide this while keeping somewhat stable and going to school. Soon as I got into a relationship I nearly 180'd and started aiming to give her the moon and the stars because it felt like someone gave a shit and 'got' me. Evidently, though, the world is not enough.

>>84365493
Honestly when I'm single it's not that bad. I have a system and kind of know when I'm gonna need to lock the fuck in and not talk to anyone, or a week won't be productive cause I have a med break planned, or when I'm going to need to dedicate a week just to cleaning my apartment or doing some mundane tasks that have piled up. I can kind of keep track of my natural ebb and flow, and I feel much less guilty saying no to people and conserving my energy and attention as needed when it's friends as opposed to a partner. Dating is so fucking difficult though. Most of the women I've dated always want to talk and go out and do retarded stuff, they need constant stimuli and entertainment, and they don't like it on a reliable schedule, they need spontaneity. If you don't provide this stuff they begin to resent you, or worse get stir crazy and start acting out. I've never had a relationship where it doesn't inevitably become a problem. It's one thing to be like "bro just make more time for your gf and give her more attention" but normies don't understand that everything is an economy between shit like that and living a functional life.

>>84365542
Hahahaha oh that's my favorite, the "you should enjoy yourself more" talk.

>>84365555
Delusional positivity is the worst fucking thing on the planet and it's always so fucking fragile and worthless. It exists only to breed ignorance of your own wrongdoings and complacency with all the ways in which you could but aren't actually making a difference. Basically every single problem in my life directly stems from some dipshit going "ah he's [insert perceived positive trait] things'll just work out" and using that as justification to completely violate my existence. Every person who falls into it becomes thoughtlessly cruel, absolves themselves of all guilt or remorse because "well I meant well" and "it is what it is" mental gymnastics. They're also almost all massive hypocrites and hold on to intense forms of cynicism that they just ignore through cognitive dissonance because "oh well my biases Just Make Sense and are totally justified while yours are just being overly negative".
I fucking LOATHE it and I refuse to pretend to be happy with anything in my life for the comfort of others. If they wanted me to be happy they shouldn't have raked me over the coals for fun and then acted like there wasn't anything they could do about it.

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What about bpd? Perhaps God made bpdemons as a gift to mentally ill men so we can complete each other?

>>84365586
I gotta be real I used to be a lot more resentful about it all but the older I get the more I'm kind of just like, ok I know what I'm doing and what works for me, and I just kind of politely but firmly disregard the other shit. I don't know how old you are but in your 30s a lot of people get humbled by that sort of thinking and realize too late that a little discipline goes a long way. You get way less of a hard time unless you're around boomers who floated through life or 20-somethings who still think they can just vibe their way into the things they want. Inevitably these people all fade away and can only really be found in bars playing pool every night, talking about things that happened a decade ago, or at shitty dead end jobs that you've probably outgrown by that point. If you're still in your 20s it gets a lot, lot better, especially as people take you more seriously and you start commanding some respect and responsibility. If you are in your 30s you gotta get out of wherever you're at and find some people who have their head in the game, man. Don't worry about it too much if not tho, just do your thing and don't let others tell you how you need to live.

>>84365597
No that's what DPD is for, who'll cry and piss and shit if they think you're talking to someone else but are actually hopelessly addicted to you. BPDemons will want to be around you all the time but only because you fulfill some idealized dynamic in their head, and the moment you don't they decide they never loved you at all and actually they're just gonna start fucking whoever they feel because you don't actually matter and actually this new person is the REAL one to fulfill their delusional ideal.

>>84365621
The problem with this is 30+ year olds are far too complacent for me to value that either. I've known exactly what my type is basically since the thought of being attracted to another person even popped into my head. The unfortunate reality is it's almost exclusively traits that women in their early 20s have, and I've gone from being younger than them to now older than them, and getting even older than them isn't going to help my relationship situation much. People in those older age groups might be less willing to put on the fake shit but they rarely give a fuck about anything at all that isn't immediate personal gratification. They're even MORE likely to be overly complacent. And they're also much more likely to have abandoned any of their actually eccentric hobbies and interests long ago, and will almost never share any of the interests I have to begin with. There is nothing for me there either. I've looked.

>>84365231
No you have to look at it from an anthropological perspective, you are not feeling, you are thinking. Broaden your horizons.

people call me autistic a lot and its started to get to me. it feels like theyre bullying me even when they say it in a way that sounds serious. like i was moving around in my chair and my mom goes "why are you moving like an autistic person" or ill do something and someone will say "x autism" and it makes me a little sad. I know I'm not a super normal person but I don't want to be outwardly a freak.

>>84365016
>>Autism rates by gender are between 3:1 and 4:1 in favor of men
>a "naive but sincere puppygirl" girl will LITERALLY never happen, and this is why I need to just kill myself.
just groom an autistic male to troon out theyre into that sort of thing

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>>84366288
>just groom an autistic male to troon out theyre into that sort of thing
You've got to be careful. This happened to me!

>>84366308
>You've got to be careful. This happened to me!
dangerously based

>>84366334
it feels strange because when i go outside people call me a girl and it's like, you are talking to me now? its very interesting to become different. ive always been me on the inside, but on the outside people see something different now. sometimes it's a little bit embarrassing and i am intentionally more androgynous with how i present myself. it feels like i dont really deserve it. my experiences in bed are really nice but it barely even feels real. like, am i a girl? if so, how. if not, what am I? this is probably a post for /lgbt/ so sorry about that. i just definitely think theres some unresolved stuff around autistic people not understanding gender roles and getting into a confusing world without good tools to navigate it.

>>84366372
>if not, what am I?
A gay man that takes estrogen

>>84366288
Most troons just end up fucking each other, all the "twinks" around here are fuck ugly (love the midwest!) and the moodiness from early estrogen use is liable for them to just blow up the relationship anyway. I've tried dating them at various stages and they're just somehow all too retarded to have a relationship with, and I'm not interested in just sex.

>>84365661
What exactly are you interested in, anon? I kind of have a similar thing in that most of my interests are extremely niche, but honestly most of my fulfillment and socialization comes through my work. Moving to a new city where people who share my interests are more common as well as intentionally choosing and working on projects that expose me to people I otherwise would never interact with have been the best things I've done in that regard. There's a lot of very cool, weird, interesting people out there kind of just hiding, the thing is it's really tough to intuit and gut feeling your way to the few of them when you're stressing and looking for them really hard. If you do that all you'll see are normies or people who "aren't quite there". You have to let genuine enthusiasm guide you. Only go to something when it really excites you, or it makes you genuinely curious. Then you can actually share enthusiasm with people when you arrive instead of judging and searching the whole time. If you're in a place where nothing excites you, move. The "just enjoy yerself bro" people are kind of right in some capacity when it comes to finding the right people - neediness and aloofness usually clouds the senses that actually guide you to the right folks. But I don't know, I'd say if most of your interests are only shared by people in their 20s and you're 30+, that maybe it's time to expand and broaden your horizons. That doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the other stuff, but evolving is part of life and what keeps YOU interesting to others, too. It's less about what you're into with people and where you're going. People love a beginner.

>>84368040
I'm sure you're aware of that type of person who starts actively searching for the most obscure movies they can find. I do that a bit, but also do it much more for music and games. I write, and had plans to learn other artforms before I got mindraped. I like DnD and a few other TTRPGs. Ultimately I just have a lot of the same kinds of interests other terminally online shut-in nerds have, but I aimed wide instead of fixating on a specific kind of thing. But I also was going to school for psychology and have a bit of an interest in philosophy and a lot of my writing stems from that, both on the creative end and when I'm writing a big essay no one will ever read because no one gives a fuck but I want an outlet.
"No one giving a fuck" is the problem I have. I can find an album or game that I think is incredibly interesting that no one knows about and when I try to talk about it, basically no one engages. Same if I just try to get people to check it out. Every once in awhile I meet the right kind of similar tism where I can chat at length about a singular "field", but often we are completely dissimilar outside of that, and ultimately I still want a relationship so trying to find a woman who shares ANY of this is obscenely difficult because they 1. never leave their fucking room, and 2. do not ever disclose that they're a woman online.
I tried to do that "just get out there and do your hobbies" shit people always suggest. I went to a ton of concerts. I tried going to local game stores for DnD. I started school and joined clubs. It didn't matter - I have online friends who mention their own friends who I would probably get along great with and they all say they met people the exact same way, but there's just no one like that anywhere near me. I would probably have to move to the coasts just to get enough population density for it but there's still no assurance, I would have to pick one, and that's a lot of effort for what'll probably be minimal payoff.

>>84367598
Dang. Foiled again.

>>84365453
my ex was similar, only officially diagnosed
she recently came back after having ghosted me for 2 years, i just told her to sod off

>>84365419
>it's generally more acceptable for men to be messy slobs
i have lived in mixed sex houseshares my whole adult life, dozens of people from all walks of life. this is not true at all (ask anyone who has ever worked a job cleaning toilets).
it's enviable in a way - women HAVE to be more comfortable with their bodily functions, obviously. women visit their doctor more than men, so there goes men being tough guys instead of squeamish and embarrassed lol
but idk, men have this sense of systemizing and caring about objects. women leave clutter. it might not be the Homer Simpson lifestyle you're picturing, but i'll die on this hill.
also: why the hell does anyone ever intentionally stick their stray hairs to the shower tiles? there's a shower head, spraying water, right there!

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>>84368368
Men and women have very different ways of being messy slobs and women for some reason don't recognize when they're doing it while guys just rarely care either way so long as it doesn't get to the point that pests are getting involved or the room absolutely reeks from unwashed clothes. Picrel did irreversible psychic damage to me because I knew girls like this but they never took an interest in me.

>>84368040
>>84368121
for what it's worth, you both seem like wise and interesting people.

DnD guy, you've got self-awareness in spades, honestly it's pretty ironic you've met these people who burn you out, it sounds like if you found EXACTLY THE RIGHT PERSON, with
>the right kind of similar tism where I can chat at length about a singular "field"
you'd be having a wonderful time doing essentially what you've complained about! except it'd be genuine enthusiasm, none of that fake shit.
i hope you can find that person, somewhere, and please do not go from stubbornness to assholery. you've been in game stores: you know those neckbeards who are one step more cynical/miserable than you? your quest is to never become them.

getting-older guy, you come across positive but in a genuine, experienced way. i agree with you that it gets better: hitting 30 is like the 'oh, this is who i actually am' moment for a lot of people. but YOU also seem chill and willing to compromise a little.
>People love a beginner.
this is true. DnD is a good example because those nerds rarely say, 'ugh, a newbie,' they're more likely to say, 'great, i get to show a person this hobby for the first time!'

moving to a new city is a pretty big ask though, IMO. even if you have the money, that's one case where you absolutely do hit 'diminishing returns' as you get older. move to the big city when you're 21, no friends, totally blank slate? awesome. move to a different city when you're pushing 40, no friends, totally blank slate? oh god.

what are YOUR weird interests, and who were the folks you ended up meeting?

>>84368530
>it sounds like if you found EXACTLY THE RIGHT PERSON, you'd be having a wonderful time doing essentially what you've complained about!
Somewhat literally, yes. Before my ex, I was barely getting through school and contemplating the rope. After we started dating I started acing everything and getting things set to take on a lot more, feeling like with that 'support' (which was literally just feeling like someone cared about me and giving me a reason to push myself) I could do basically anything. After she cheated on me I stopped giving a shit about anything and dropped out. People will tell me I shouldn't be so extrinsically motivated but it doesn't work that way and I can argue it far long and far more in depth than anyone would ever be willing to engage in on the opposite end.
>please do not go from stubbornness to assholery.
Probably too late for that. I don't care to go over all my rationalizations but after a decade of being condescended to by people who have 0 frame of reference for what I'm stuck putting up with, and multiple failed relationships where they basically unironically did the "you forgot the moon and the stars" shit, I just do not give a fuck. I am very committed to my morals and values and can similarly go to bat for them ad nauseum, but again, no one cares, but I'm still not going to act like it doesn't matter so that people acting like shitheads get a bit more peace of mind. It's probably not the kind of thing you meant, but being confrontational about being being awful hypocrites making the world worse is seen as "being an asshole" so I figure it still counts.

>>84365016
>End up dating each other
Maybe if they're superficially similar. I've been dumped worse by autistic cunts than I have by normal women.

>>84368121
Yeah, I can kind of relate a little in terms of the "no one giving a fuck" thing but over time I've felt that matters a lot less than finding people who you just relate to on a human level, as opposed to a surface level through media or whatever. I honestly ended up finding that in always trying to find people who like the specific albums or movies or whatever I like, I would end up meeting people and it's fine at first but quickly becomes like... well what now? You both like the same stuff, sure, but that doesn't sustain a relationship. If anything it makes you both less interesting to the other person because it's just "yeah, I know" all the time. I think this is a big force behind the "no one gives a fuck" thing.
It was similar with the ex I mentioned earlier in the thread. We loved all the same shit and really clicked on that level, had the same sense of humor, liked the same fashion, music, movies, art, etc etc, but as people we honestly ended up being pretty incompatible in a lot of ways, and as much as it hurts to admit I think it made our relationship settle into routines that didn't really fulfill either of us. I find that when you approach people based on what's the same, it somehow makes the parts of them that are different more uncomfortable too, and that goes both ways.
In contrast, I think it's better to look for what you DON'T know yet in others, but piques your interest, and then be curious about that. At the very least you'll learn something, but most of the time they'll want to know what you're about too, and then there's an exchange happening where you're both like "oh, this is something I haven't considered before." If someone is into one thing that you aren't really into but still think is pretty cool, they're probably into other stuff you'll think is cool too. You have to get past yourself and it's pretty uncomfortable at first but I've found it really helps and has led to some of the most fulfilling relationships in my life.

>>84368530
Yeah, I agree that moving is a huge ask, but I don't think it needs to happen on a physical relocation level. Even just changing your usual circle or letting yourself be drawn into new stuff can help, but you have to be authentic about it. It sounds like the other anon has a lot of interests they haven't explored yet, but really can be explored in any city. Starting with those is a way of "moving" without having to move.

I'm into music tho, mostly electronic music. I'd always look for people into the same shit and whenever I'd find them, we'd get along, but there wasn't really growth happening and inevitably things would sort of fizzle. A few years ago I kind of grew out of raves and stuff, so I started taking classical piano lessons, and my teacher ended up having a LOT in common with me and became probably the only real mentor figure I've had in life, despite him being a guy twice my age who exclusively listens to a genre I had never really explored in earnest. We both put each other on to a ton of stuff and really developed each other's interests, because we related on a human level and could share things in a deeper way than "oh you like this artist what about this." It made sharing things even more significant, because it's a process of actually being seen and not just taste wankery.
I ended up moving recently and have sort of had to re-learn this lesson. I'd go to raves and electronic music events and stuff like that because it's what I know, and there'd be people I could definitely get along with, but nothing was really clicking and I felt I really wasn't making any headway. I started going to weirder events with less of a crowd just out of curiosity, and really quickly started meeting people again because I clearly come from a different world and that makes you inherently more interesting, especially when you're observing in earnest and see people at a different angle than they're used to being seen at.

>>84369728
Well yes, going to concerts a bunch it was immediately apparent that even when I did try to chat with random people, liking the same band doesn't mean we have anything in common as people. Same goes for any hobby or interest. It's more about having shared values, and the ways in which that interacts based on the ways we've found to indulge/express that. It's not "this person likes all the same things I do", that would be boring as fuck. It's "if I showed this person all the things I enjoy, would they get it in the way I do? If they show me what they like, would I get it in the ways they do?"
But, 'getting it' in the ways I do requires them to give a shit, which no one does.
And of course if you have NO shared interests, you're just not likely to ever meet anyway.
The last girl I was into had a couple interests I had 0 frame of reference for or personal interest in. Physics and finance were big ones. I had no way to engage, the barrier to entry was pretty high, and my only motivation would be impressing her, which'd feel insincere. So instead I focused on the stuff we DID have in common - music, games, psych, social discourse shit. We watched some anime together. To me that was enough to be into her. For her, me not being into those handful of things was one of the reasons it could never work.
I know all this stuff and tailor my decisions based on it. It's just that I was the only one ever trying. I've tapped out because no matter how smart or capable I am, no matter what I achieve, the one thing I cant do is make people give a shit. It feels clear to me I was never the problem but I was unironically better off when I felt everything was my fault - at least then getting to a solution relied entirely on me and not the whims of others.

>>84369844
I really struggled with that for a while too, but honestly I really do think the solution is to be curious about other people first. The thing is, you can't do this from a headspace of "I'm expressing curiosity so that way they'll be curious about me, and then it's even." What works for me is approaching people from the premise of, the information IS the thing you're getting in exchange, anything else is extraneous. The simplest version of this is complimenting another person, maybe you like someone's pants. You don't go up to them thinking "if I compliment their pants, maybe they'll compliment mine and then we can talk." Instead, come at it from a perspective of "I've never seen pants like that before. I want pants like that. What are those pants called? Where did they get those pants?" That way even if they express NO interest whatsoever in your pants, you're already coming away from the interaction having gained more than the other person. The thing is, I find when you do this and are clearly coming from a different place and acting out of genuine interest, it removes some sense of jadedness on both ends and people absolutely WILL ask you about your pants too, because they'll be like - wait, why does this guy want to know about my pants? How does this fit into the larger picture? The biggest thing is you actually do have to give a fuck about the pants, you can't just be doing it to start a conversation, as people will pick up that it's just an ice breaker and then it's awkward. Ironically enough I've found that I've had better luck actually being MORE self absorbed at the end of the day, but it's just an externally minded self-absorption as opposed to internally minded.

>>84369888
I mean I did this for awhile too. I'm almost 30, terminally online, and hang out in places like this - I'm intentionally looking for weird people just to see how they work. I chatted with a girl who grew up without any schooling living in a place so deep in the woods she'd go months without seeing anyone who wasn't her immediate family and seeing what she liked and why was interesting. It was just rarely if ever reciprocated PERIOD. It's a lot of proactive effort being put in for what amounts to just "sating curiosity". I just don't care anymore. Reciprocity is the absolute bare minimum. No one's ever done it. I'm not going to keep playing the game and feeding people attention and effort for nothing. And really, the big question is, why should I be expected to put all this thought into socializing, walking myself through all these mental loops, just to reach a state of fake detachment so that what I actually want shows up, when the people I'm jumping through all these hoops for don't have to think about it at all?
I think someone should have to jump through the hoops for me for once, and there is just no actually compelling argument against that.

>>84369844
Values are tougher, though. Deep down I'm honestly pretty religious, for instance, but if I led with that a lot of people would probably find it uncomfortable and offputting. I think alignment of values has to happen at different stages. At first you can't know much and really have to just go off your gut, "does this person seem chill and healthy and like they won't do something immoral or outright insane?," then over time you get to know them better and can actually take stock of whether you can be around them. This is kind of another benefit of approaching in the way I describe too - you don't have as many other factors clouding your early read on a person. I've gotten close to so many people I shouldn't have in life just because they liked the same stuff or were doing the same stuff. You see a person's essential nature a bit clearer when you're starting from zero with them. I think the biggest thing though is that all of us are always going to be alone in our heads, really. Relationships can only ever really be reflections of ourselves and our perception of others, if you could connect brains with someone maybe it would be different, but you can't and probably wouldn't want to even if you could. Approach people and experiences as if they're giving you something just by engaging, and you'll be really surprised how much extra people actually give.

>>84369949
>Approach people and experiences as if they're giving you something just by engaging, and you'll be really surprised how much extra people actually give.
They don't. They give me nothing. I've done this song and dance a million times, and had this conversation infinitely more. I can count the number of people who ever tried to be the proactive one, or to 'put in extra', on both my hands, and not even all of those actually followed through.

>>84369940
I think the thing is anon, you have to ask yourself if you actually led with this curiosity because you were truly curious, or because you had a need that you wanted to be filled, inevitably expecting the interaction to pay out? I went through a similar thing too, where I'd feign interest just to sate my curiosity or try to talk myself into "just being more open" and burning my energy on things I didn't REALLY care about, but at the end of the day you're still doing this because you're searching. The goal isn't to go out into the world and find a hidden gem or play a numbers game hoping just the right person comes up. I'm not suggesting you do that, that's a massive time waster and a great way to use up all your free time, energy, and meet some really useless people, especially if you have ADHD. Instead, what I'm suggesting is to look at your environment as pure stimuli, no good or bad, and let YOUR actual interest steer you. If you have no interest? That's fine. Don't do anything, don't force it just because you feel you have to. Just move until something DOES pique your fancy, and then go from there. If you do this, you'll always be GETTING information and experience from people, as opposed to GIVING them your attention.

>>84369996
Yeah, but were you approaching those things because you were actually getting something, or out of the expectation of getting something? My point is reframing your standards for approach entirely. Don't do them in some vain attempt to show interest or curiosity or whatever. Do it when you actually ARE curious, and actually kind of have something to gain just from the initial interaction. Maybe in your case you go to a writing club and notice someone is a good writer. Ask them for tips, not because you hope they'll read your writing, but because you genuinely think they're good enough to have useful information to give you. 99.9% of people aren't going to go "pfft, look at this loser" - and if they do, it'll be noticeable immediately and you write them off in a nanosecond. Most people are ALWAYS going to think "wow, this guy thinks I'm good! that feels great!" and they'll either share genuine advice or they'll just shy away, and then you keep it moving. In the cases where they actually DO share, though - they'll generally feel that you've done them some sort of favor by noticing them, and will want to take interest or help you in some other way. It sounds Machiavellian or some shit lol, but it's really not.

>>84369998
>>84370068
This is all edging dangerously close to magical thinking. In the realm of 'you have to have the right motivations and if you don't people will Just Know and you can't just try it anyway and tell yourself it'll work you have to feeeeeeeel it' type shit. The problem is 2 fold; either I go into a space, and have 0 interest, which is often for various reasons, OR, I do meet someone who piques my interest, and I home in on that, and just get stonewalled. Maybe they'll talk about themselves for a bit, but there's very rarely any attempt to show the same amount of effort, and when they do it's almost always a courtesy thing and it's immediately obvious they're basically tuned out or have no clue what I'm talking about.
I tried it, it didn't work. I asked for more advice, it didn't make a difference. I walked people through everything I did, they had nothing more to add. The simple fact is there is no amount of social manipulation or tactics that actually has a 100% track record of making people give a shit. And because there isn't, that means it doesn't actually matter what you do, things can and will just fizzle for no reason at all. Not being a sperg and trying certain things might increase your odds, but complete personality voids will manage to go through life having much more social success through sheer dumb luck without having to put a single thought towards how they interact with others, let alone to the degree we are here. I no longer want to play this game. "Welcome to Whose Line Is It Anyway?, the show where everything's made up and the points don't matter!"

>>84370131
It's less magical thinking as it is just honestly assessing your own energy and motivation. When you do this enough, things do genuinely fall into place more often. You can say that's magical thinking I guess, but it works. You can experience a similar thing just getting into better shape. If your body is healthy and your mind is healthy, people naturally react to you differently. I don't understand how they pick up on the mind stuff, but speaking from experience as someone who has undergone a lot of changes on both ends, people legitimately respond more to the mind stuff than the body stuff. Like a LOT more. You don't have to take my word for it tho; ultimately the goal I think is to just consciously choose and live by your own nature. People are intrinsically unreliable and you can't expect too much from them, but once you accept that, wipe your own ass, take responsibility for your attitude and stand on your own two feet, there is a natural magnetism that feels genuinely unfair when you perceive it from the outside. I say that as someone who has been on both sides of the fence multiple times at different points in life. Usually the only thing that changes one from the other is a relatively simple shift in perspective and approach, or you can just wait for a cataclysmic event that will force you to either change approach or continue down the same path. Those are a lot of fun, too. Either way, one or the other will inevitably happen in life - I'm just saying there is an easy way and a hard way, mostly for any other anons that may be reading this at this point.

>>84365016
I guess God is this thread since its full of LLM slop