anyone who isnt a zoomer says pele is the goat.

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>>154291487
i suspect it's mostly manlets shilling for messi
also people insecure because pele makes the sport look black and costs them white people points
there's always a 4chanian chudmotivation for their posts

>>154291459
How is a ranking supposed to work? Some people say A is more important than B, others say it isn’t. Comparing players across different leagues, positions, eras - in a team sport - is retarded in the first place

>>154291521
>>154291487
Why would zoomers call Pele the GOAT if they never saw a full match of him? Are you retarded autists just looking at wiki stats and youtube highlights?

>>154291940
it's obvious the world cup is the most important thing, then the euros, then the champions league thing
if you want an objective metric you weight it by viewer count, if you want it even more objective you weight it by Net Viewer Worth (sum over viewership by country * GDP/Capita of country)

not to mention WC is every 4 years so it's automatically minimum 4x the value of anything yearly

>>154292039
muh eye test is a massive cope, always has been. You don't need to watch a sport to objectively quantify success in it

People have been calling Messi the GOAT as early as 2010 and it became common opinion by the end of 2012. Only smooth brain casuals needed him to win a WC.

>>154292068
Oh, in that case Erwin Helmchen is the true GOAT. You're a fucking zoomer if you think Pele was better.

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>>154292159
those were all boomers who got psyopped by uefa in a marketing gimmick though

3 > 1

>>154292175
kek i forgot he was all roided/HGH'd up too
in the end it was due to the spanish inferiority complex to anglos
he was basically the barry bonds of soccer but with an army of poor manlet fans (versus another army of poor manlet fans for ronaldo)

>>154291459
Messi is obviously the best player to ever play. And he didn't need the WC to prove that.

>>154292201
>Erwin Helmchen
world cup count?

>>154292213
>he was good because... i liked him o algo
3 > 1
in fact it's 3 times bigger

>>154292231
Judging players based on a every 4 years knockout tournament that is heavily effected by what country you play for is retarded.

>>154292284
oh so world cups dont count then?
also soccer doesn't even have a salary cap lol, there's shit tier parity to start with, clubs aren't different than national teams in that retard
it's a deeply flawed sport

>>154292284
No it isnt. If goats from shitter nations cant win then they need to work harder. Pull themselves up by the bootstraps. Why the fuck would you even want a fair fight of youre trying to be the goat? If I was good at footy Id get fucking Faroese-Danish citizenship just to carry those island dwelling nerds to a wc

>>154292355
Messi isn't the best because of all his la ligas or whatever, he's the best because of how he controls the game is one of the best if not the best at dribbling, touch, passing, finishing, free kicks, off ball movement. Use your eyes

>>154292209
Pelé only played a few minutes in the 1962 World Cup. He played the first group game against Mexico and then injured in the second game. He didn’t play the final, the semifinal, the quarterfinal, the final group game. Brazil won without him, they obviously were capable of that
You seem to only value trophies, not about the context. Anatoly Tymoschuk got a medal for the 2013 Champions League, but he played like 30 minutes all tournament. On the other hand, he could have been the best player ever and still would not have had a chance to win the World Cup because he’s Ukrainian and cannot win the World Cup on his own.

Who the fuck cares about this dumb GOAT debate anyway? There can never be

>>154291459
>pele's 3 world cups
2*

>>154292446
and what about all the HGH he got?

>>154292482
doesn't matter, he spiritually moved them to win it :)

>>154292482
>Who the fuck cares about this dumb GOAT debate anyway?
it's part of an overarching geosportlitical culture and racial war ongoing on the internet and 4chan for years now
ironically it's in my best interest if messi is considered the GOAT given his recent manuevers lol

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>>154291459
>>messi is the GOAT because he won a world cup
He's the GOAT becaus of many factors, winning a World Cup is just one of them. Same as with other sports.

>>154293736
where are you from? you are deeply invested in this

>>154291459
Basically the whole "GOAT" term is retarded.
It's a Zoomer buzzword.
The whole concept of a player being the best ever is stupid because the ERA's of football were completely different in many terms.

>>154291459
US women soccers has won more WC, than pele, maradona and messi combine.

>>154293815
the pathetic thing to me is that messi vs ronaldo was quite blatantly a marketing campaign by europe/UEFA to get the third world to worship and follow european soccer above all else as well as make it easy(well, easier) for european clubs to cuck latin american clubs of their players as they all grow up dreaming of playing for UEFA clubs (especially madrid/barecelona)

it's similar to how we're psyopping and cucking japan in baseball right now

but the victims of this scheme are its loudest proponents lol

>>154294050
that didn't count for some reason, i'm sure of it

>>154294050
yeah they didnt won though

pre-VAR titles dont count though i was told?

>>154294380
Some cope that way
Some meme that way

>>154294385
soccer is a highly rigged and divefaggot infested sport so it checks out

>>154292482
you're in some chicano's thread dude
it's quite obvious he hasnt seen a single clip of pele actually playing, who was quite decorated but never the main man of the brazilian team.
the best player in their 1970 world cup win was jairzinho and gerson was objectively MOTM on the final

>>154292175
I thought it was a scene from Xavier Renegade Angel.

>154292551
Nobody gives a shit about this "war" you talk about, you autistic fuck
Go give your wages to israel, goymutt. Daddy trump orders you.

>>154291459
Messi won 4 CLs
He was the top goalscorer for years even when barca were shit in the late 2010s
He faced criticism for choking in finals with argentina, but he wasnt the only one who choked. His entire team was ass (pele didnt carry brazil, he was surrounded by world class players)

LMAO
zuttkaner pretending to be a /sp/ tourist than spamming the same thing as always for the rest of the thread
is he fucking retarded or something

>>154296415
The gimmick would have worked 10 years ago but with so little active people here, it's so obvious it's sad.

>american tries to understand sport
kek

>>154291459
kek they so angry this happened

>>154291459
pele's world cups count, but he technically only has 2, garrincha carried the team in 62
messi is usually considered the goat because he was a playmaker and a decisive forward all in one, but even then you have to put a massive asterisk next to his career because when he was at his most dominant, the entire backbone of his team were either the best or were near the best at their positions in the world, so much so that they won 3 straight international tournaments in a row without messi pretty handedly

>>154291459
who's that

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>>154291459

>>154291459
Pele got his cups back when the game was much easier, with less parity and poor officiating.

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>>154291459
Messi led South Americans minnows Argentina to their first Copa in two decades
And then to another one

>>154292482
>he can't be le goat because he comes from a small country with no chances at silverware
If only there was someone that has single handedly carried his small nation to silverware for the first time ever (twice) and held ALL the records of the most important and prestigious football competition maybe we could put the debate to rest but alas....

>Who the fuck cares about this dumb GOAT debate anyway? There can never be
It's important because we need a paragon for the sport, someone that the younger generations can look up to, we need to find someone that has overcome all possible adversity, upbringing, institutions, the media and even the script and has beat all that through sheer hard work, willpower and determination instead of being spoonfeed, i don't know, drugs, a tailormade system, and 20 years of paid refs. Maybe some day someone like that will appear

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>>154291459
Messi is defended by the chosen people so this post is antisemitism

We need to clone Messi, Ronaldo, Pele and Maradona and put them to play all in the same era. We have the technology

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>>154291459
>>154291521
>>154292068
>>154292209
>>154296749
>>154300651
>>154301341
Cucknaldo

>>154291487
This

>>154291459
What is important is the skills that the player shows when playing, not the titles his teams wins. A lot of unknown players have won the World Cup but they aren't considered among the best in history and viceversa.

>>154291487
anyone who's a poser you mean? and it's maradona btw

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>>154300710
He's also the only World Cup winner to score 900 goals.

pele was playing plumbers

Messi Made Argentina Great Again :)

>>154303258
Goals aren't the same between leagues though, EPL domestic league goals are easily worth twice goals in leliga or bundles on average
Goals outside of Europe absolutely never count, no matter who scores them

>>154300710
Third world competitions do not count for anything, only Europe and the world cup matters
>>154301276
>Waxing poetic about a marketing campaign and your inferiority complex
lol it's just one of MANY sports little hombre, it's not life or death

>>154291459
You and everyone else are retarded. It's simple, Ronaldinho was the best to ever do it.

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>>154303602
Cucknaldo

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Which milestone will Messi hit first: 1K goals, 500 assists of an absolute record of 50 trophies won?

>>154291459
yes, players are objectively better now than they were 6 decades ago

>>154304645
I think after this World Cup he is going to retire so I don't think he will reach those goals.

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Messi owns shares in a bunch of clubs already.

>>154303590
How many World Cup winners have at least 600 European league goals?

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>>154291487
Greatest Overrated Ass Turd

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>>154291459
It's cool to see someone who's not Brazilian recognize Pele's greatness.

>>154303590
>thats why pele is the goat because he scored 6 gorillion goals in some shithole brazil tournament
You are so retarded its not even funny
>but le world cups!!
Pele only played one (1) full world cup, and it was before europeans invented total football and modern tactics, which completely fucked shitzil. Messi was the one who defeated the netherlands, croatia and france.

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>>154314811
>shithole Brazilian tournament
Back then our players stuck around here.
We had the best, or one of the best, leagues back then.
Pele played in the league where players that won us 3 World Cups came.

>>154293815
I suppose GOATs can be clear for some sports, for example I consider Tom Brady to be by far the best ever in american football. Football has evolved in so many aspects over the years that it's impossible to compare players from different eras.

>>154292068
>it's obvious the world cup is the most important thing
when it comes to world cup it really matters what country you are from though, that's why other personal achievements and metrics do matter more for many people

Ronaldo winning the Euros with Portugal is far more impressive than Messi winning the most obviously rigged WC of all time

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>>154315539
More like Portugal winning the Euros with Penaldo

To me Fenômeno is the BOAT. Unfortunately his WC performances were nerfed because.
1. Parreira didnt play him in 94 eventhough he could have had a Pelé like debute
2. He was likely poised in 98 final(?)
3. The retarded brazilian comission fucked up the whole training and line up (Cafu and Roberto Carlo Dinosaurs shouldnt have been starters)

He is the only guy who had the potential to win 4 WCs in a row

>>154316114
how tf did France lose to this?

>>154292378
> Why the fuck would you even want a fair fight of youre trying to be the goat?
Then why do you call your best players ? Just call a bunch of alcoholic boomers from dusseldorf, and let’s see how well your best player does.

>>154292201
i see the shitter you suggested has a total of zero (0) world cups and was so shit he didnt even get called up to the national team
nice example lmao

>>154303590
>EPL domestic league goals are easily worth twice goals in leliga or bundles on average
bro every EPL match is a shitfest with like 4 goals minimum that league is garbage

>>154303303
and now the plumbers are getting paid 20 million to be benchwarmers

>>154293736
>nba titles
>stan lee cup
uh and what about fiba and iihf/olympics ? because that argentinial manlet also won cl/la ligas

How I see it is that NT international tournaments are in a higher tier compared to club football

Why? Because you can't but the best player when it comes to NTs, what you have is what you get

With clubs, you can always hire the best players, coach, etc...

Pele is the best player because he won 3 world cup with his National Team

Messi is the best at Club level, but on NTs he's a bit of a clown, after like 4 world cups appearances, he won his first one.

Fat Ronaldo is better than him in that regard, or Miroslav Klose for another comparison.


Shows you how hard football is at the National Team level.

>this person is the individual goat because their team won such and such
are all american sports fans this unintelligent?

>>154292159
>People have been calling Messi the GOAT as early as 2010
>People have been calling Messi the GOAT when it was not even close to justified
Was that supposed to help your argument? lol

>>154295276
what doth calcio?

>>154293775
This board has flags

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Messi isn't the goat. He is a statpadder who gets mogged by ronaldo in every UCL metric
>muh WC
wnning Euro with Portugal is more impressive to any rational mind

>>154316114
Portugal don't even make it out of groups without ronaldo