>What is Exalted?
A bad game.

>>97820156
Monthly+Weekly Update
>Predevelopment
Infernals Companion
Essence PG Companion
liminals/getimians (now that infernals is out of primary development, one of these will be next)
>First Draft
Essay Collection lol last seen here
>Second/Final Draft
Essence: Even the Heavens Will Burn (Essence Player’s Guide novella 2)
>Development
Essence: Murder on the Divine Carriage (Essence Player’s Guide novella 1, possibly renamed from For the March Lords)
Alchemicals Companion: Avatars of Brass and Shadow
The Alchemicals Companion, our book of stretch goal topics, has all the final drafts in and is getting ready for development!
>Post-Approval Development
Essence Storyteller’s Guide
>Editing
Infernals: Crowned by Hellfire
>Post-Editing Development
Sidereals Jumpstart
>Art Notes Prep
Agents of Heaven: Sidereals Companion
Exigents: Champions of the Divine Flame
Infernals: Crowned by Hellfire
>Art Direction
Essence Player’s Guide – Shenanigans cleared up and things are back in progress
Essence Storyteller’s Guide – Sketches with devs for approval
Riders from the Sunless Lands: The Abyssals Companion
>Layout
Sidereals Storyteller Screen
Abyssals Storyteller Screen
Alchemicals: Forged by the Machine God – starting as soon as Pandoras is dealt with…
>Press
>-Crowdfunded projects (including screens). Disappears from this list once both PDF & crowdfunded versions are released:
Exigents Storyteller Screen/Exigents: Shipping to fulfillment shippers. UK and EU backer rewards going out
Sidereals: Quoting
they're prepping the st guide for crowdfunding but are playing coy if it will be next or not
next week it will be half a year since alchemicals entered layout, i was hoping to at least see the backer pdf by now but it will probably be closer to june
exigents should be shipping by now. if you didn't get yours contact the indiegogo campaign. they seem to be focusing on shipping curseborne next but sidereals/abyssals will hopefully be forthcoming

>>97820465
Thanks as always for the update.

>>97820684
sure. i keep messing up the spoiler somehow, i used to be able to do it

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>>97820156
>Have you ever made a custom mount/vehicle for your character? how did that pan out?
Not from Scratch but I've designed a Solar Dragon as a socerous-working-forged familiar/mount. Used the Sky Titan as a baseline for flying mount then added in bits from other critters like the Tidemare's ability to serve as mass transit, and a custom breath attack.

>>97821861
Based. What did you end up using it for?

>>97822206
Transport / battle tank / primarily for intimidating unruly Gods because its claws could pierce sanctums and it was a Solar working so it could fuck up even decently strong opponents

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>>97825388
Based and Tolkienpilled

If you ever wondered what Lunars spent the entire second age doing at the edges of creation, it was basically this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czj7SyPNRto

>>97825763
Partying until burned at stakes?

>>97825763
What were they doing the entire First Age?

>>97826736
Going to designated Lunar social clubs to mutter uneasily about how unsure they are about how much agency they even have, getting caught in Wyld experiments and being forgotten about by their own Solars.

>>97826736
being riden by solars in every way you can imagine.

>>97825763
It's still kind of funny to me that Sidereals didn't get nearly as mistreated as Lunars during the First Age, and by all accounts were treated about as respectfully as a First Age Solar could treat an inferior. You would think there would be at least one or two accounts of Solar and Sidereal hubris clashing, but nope.

>>97827086
Out of universe answer; Sidereals weren't part of that version of the first age, and/or the devs didn't want to stain their real golden boys.

In universe answe; Sidereals are distant mentors and advisers.

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>>97827086
>You would think there would be at least one or two accounts of Solar and Sidereal hubris clashing, but nope.
There kind of is, in this sidebar. It is describing a clash between the Sidereal and Solar hubris. Solars feel entitled to whatever they want, including Sidereal Martial Arts, while Sidereals feel entitled to respect as martial arts masters, sifu and advisor to the rulers of the world. Solars can't respect anyone so they withdraw from tutelage and stop listening to advice, and the Sidereals... well, we all know how they respond.

>>97820156
clockwork servitor yeddim. pulled my merchant caravan.

>>97827136
>>97827233
I get the out of universe answer, I just can't help but laugh at it because it goes nowhere near explaining the in-universe answer considering how much Solars lashed out at Lunars who're supposed to be much nearer and dearer to them. The favouritism is so transparent it's laughable.

I am very familiar with the sidebar, and I say to you: Just being ignored is incredibly respectful compared to, say, that poor Lunar a Solar invented an entire Charm to clobber with nearby improvised weapons. Like let me try to put this another way:

There is no equivalent of what Desus did to Lilith but to a Sidereal, there is no Sidereal who got held down and raped for not ponying up the SMAs.

>>97827824
Domestic abusers target their family before their friends. Due to the Lunar Bond, they were always right there, the first one in line for a beating every time the Solar got angry and wanted someone to blame

This is a shameless powergaming question, but what level of sorcerous working would you guys say is suited for making a Devil-Body permanent (Or alternatively, making it conditional/lasts longer, maybe a session, when invoked under some kind of suitably mystical circumstance. While underwater, in the presence of spontaneous violence happening to someone else, in absolute darkness, while really fucking high up and willingly falling etc) or spontaneously generating more points for it?

>>97828196
Solar 3. Permanent Devil Body is equivalent to a "Create a supernatural being of a singular nature and considerable power." If I were your ST I'd also insist on a caveat like with immortality, a critical flaw that opponents could sus out with investigation and lore/occult, like the 2e flaw of invulnerability

>>97828204
Understandable on both counts. Define caveat, you mean like some kind of condition that can be used to just turn off the Devil-Body used in such a way? How would you reconcile that with Paramount Body/Mind?

>>97828215
Depends on your and your group. I've played where immortality was limited to a specific location, for example, or contingent on a high Cult level so enemies could get around it by working against the person rather than just charging straight at them. Or like I said a flaw that causes it to fail, maybe something dramatically ironic like if they cause your Limit Trigger your character gets so butthurt that Devil Body collapses for the session.

>>97828204
Hmm, also fair enough. I honestly miss motonic physics/Graceful Wicked Masques-level rules for nonsense, but if anything deserves the it's your game, fanwank something treatment given how it's supposed to be some kind of solipsistic apotheosis, it's Devil-Bodies.

Already racking my brains over the custom Torment option that can potentially cost more than one dot, that right there could be gamechanging.

>>97828242
No idea why the link missed >>97828230 but I guess that also answers my follow-up question about what it would take to make the inner world absolutely real and stop fucking around with the functionally useless Charm that only lets you bring out what are probably trivial people/things unless you worked on them directly with Craft/sorcery/Constructive Convergence of Principles/VEE and the like while within the realm.

...which really isn't that big a restriction, now that I think about it.

>>97828196
It depends on how much you limit it. It could be Celestial 2, but if you're really trying to get powerful then just nut up and accept Solar workings. It's not like they're hard, just xp intensive.

>>97828639
Nutting up is more than fair in my book, especially with all the Infernal sorcery-boosting Charms just sitting there.

Hi /exg/, I haven't been around since Lunars were released, and I don't play 3e anymore. But I saw that the 3e Infernals manuscript came out recently and was curious about the general opinion of it here? Sorry if this is a loaded question for whatever reason. Long-time Infernal player here, so I was always curious about how 3e would handle them whilst being certain I'd be dead or the line would be cancelled before they ever released. I've been glancing at the manuscript for the past few days, but I haven't formed a definite opinion yet; 3e mechanics leaving my brain has also hampered my ability to process whether they're above or below par, or just right (for whatever that might mean for you).

Personally, I have to say I generally prefer their lore to what we had before. It's pretty much how my group ran them anyway. I like how soul hierarchy is part of the base set rather than a pie-in-the-sky E6-E10 progression that was practically meaningless in most real games; I'm not a fan of Shintai having their own subtree *but* I generally prefer the build-your-own form approach. I think ExWod handled the inner world and shintai more elegantly, but that's a different topic.

Oh, and finally having a published writeup for Ligier is surreal. There being no actual Third Circle stat blocks has been like a festering wound for me since the 1e days. Any other cool things that've happened in the past few releases?

>>97829030
Due to being the last one released, they're the best splat mechanically by a mile, same as 2e. But unlike 2e there's be no Ink Monkey's style errata so they get to just be the best forever

>>97829030
>I saw that the 3e Infernals manuscript came out recently and was curious about the general opinion of it here?
It's like by most that I've seen. It's been disliked by some others. I think whether or not playing them is worthwhile is solidly determined by how tolerant you are of 3e's base system - Infernals, and honestly no splat, is hype enough to push your over the edge to enjoying 3e unless you were already basically there before. Not nearly the same way 1e/2e would be tolerated because you liked the splats/characters/world, at least.

>>97829030
I like them a lot. I haven't had a chance to run or pkay them yet, but I intend to run an Infernals campaign at some point. I dislike Ebon Dragon still being a Saturday morning cartoon villain, but that's the most major complaint I have.

>>97829067
That would track, since it's happened every single time. First Sids/Alchs in 1e, then Infernals in 2e. I think there's something to be respected for limiting errata/extraneous releases in terms of purity of product, but not when it leaves issues unaddressed. I think 2e suffered from overuse of this (i.e. Ink Monkeys, GotMH). I wish that 3e would have designed the mainline Exalts simultaneously to break the cycle, but I understand why that wasn't possible.
>>97829107
Yeah, given the overhaul Infernals got, I think a chunk of people are bound to be unhappy for their own reasons either way. My group wrote off 3e a long time ago and we wouldn't go back, but I do like seeing how my old favorites make the transition. About hype, I do feel that's one thing that earlier editions were better at - selling a splat with characterful writing and by example with the charmset. 3e Charms feel too mechanically dense to have that simple switch-flipping, imagination-sparking effect, but perhaps that's just my own bias at play (3e Solars mostly did that for me initially, after all).
>>97829181
The weird thing is, I could swear I remember Vance or SLS mentioning they wanted to drop that interpretation of the Ebon Dragon and return to his 1e roots. The cynic in me wants to speculate that they only didn't so that they could loot the 2e charmset for ready-made ideas, but the fluff is still easy to change for your own games. I hope you have fun with them.

>>97829282
>The weird thing is, I could swear I remember Vance or SLS mentioning they wanted to drop that interpretation of the Ebon Dragon and return to his 1e roots. The cynic in me wants to speculate that they only didn't so that they could loot the 2e charmset for ready-made ideas, but the fluff is still easy to change for your own games. I hope you have fun with them.
The real issue is that 1e TeD was also a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain™.

>>97829438
Yeah, you're right. I was thinking solely of his core Games of Divinity writeup. I always forget about that chapter fiction snippet between him and totally-not-the-Scarlet-Empress.

>>97829466
Expanding solely upon his GoD is hard because of how many Azhrarns clones they did (Dowager, Walker, 5DD, Ligier, etc...)

>>97829438
>>97829466
Even considering Ted beyond GoD, there's a distinct difference between doing evil for evil's sake while melodramatically enjoying every moment of it and doing fucked up shit as a part of a plot to maybe get out of eternal imprisonment.

>>97829655
Calling either Dowager or Walker an Azhrarn clone is weird enough that I'd like some elaboration on that, but also 2E Eddy being wicked because he loves it it closer to Azhrarn - though still quite far from him - than his short GoD description or any reasonable expansion on it I can think of.

>>97831176
>Dowager
Shapeshifting child kidnapper, she also ends up killing them.

>Walker.
The Orpheusian rescue from caste book night.

>>97831309
That's bending the definition of the word cline something fierce, like, "having anything at all in common with Azhrarn"=an Azrhrarn clone tier.

>>97831982
>cline
Or clone, whatever

>>97831982
>>97832000
It is like Rakan Thulio, they gave him the "revenge for being cucked" aspect of Azhrarn, despite it making Rakan come as an incel.

I’m Azhrarn! You’re Azhrarn! She’s Azhrarn! Are there any more Azhrarns in the room I should know about?!

>>97829030
>general opinion
It enthused me enough to get back into the game re-learn the painstaking, agonisingly asinine mechanics, did enough right I was profoundly relieved from the impression Essence gave me of where they were taking them, and has enough lacking that there's just a little bittersweet aftertaste to it all. But god, in my entirely subjective and profoundly biased opinion it is by far the best thing 3e has ever put out both in terms of lore and mechanics.

>whether they're above or below par
If I had to sum up 3e Infernals in a nutshell (based on my own kinda flawed understanding of combat resolution), it's that they take Abilities to extremes that often give them unconventional edges at the cost of absolute mechanical supremacy that only rarely becomes a detriment. Brawl is the best illustration of this imo: If you look at Solar Brawl you get to do shit like stick people with persistent onslaught penalties, yo-yo people you punch into the horizon and just reset your rounds of control on demand. Infernal Brawl is NOT that slick, but it DOES do things Solar Brawl can't like give you scenelong permanent bonuses in exchange for penalising you stopping the fight early, sic grappling gambits out to short range, give you an Brawl-compatible heavy weapon that can inflict disease with a bite (which is...debatably useful given how long interval takes and there being no way to intensify syndromes, the best use case I can think of is sticking someone with Jigsaw Puzzle for a free Crippling effect mid-fight) and throw people hard enough to inflict fall damage. It also has what to my knowledge is the FIRST Solaroid Charm that flat out inflicts uncountable damage if it hits with enough successes, unless you count Heart-Eating Fist. Punching stuff falls far short of Solar and even Abyssal equivalents simply due to lacking anything like Fivefold Fury Onslaught or Rampage-Berserker Attack but it doesn't matter because the wrassling is that fucking sweet.

1/?

>>97829030
As for the other abilities-Stealth, Thrown, Linguistics and Athletics are legitimately the best I've seen in any splat so far. Presence, Socialise and Lore too although those are kind of cheating because Presence has VEE (now with an upgrade to affect entire nations!), Socialise has the replacement for Black Mirror Shintai, and Lore has Mind-Hand Manipulation/Principle-Invoking Onslaught (now with Agg damage!) which continues the trend of Infernals just cheating in compensation for falling short in pure arete.

>lore
I'm of two minds about the lore in a lot of ways. It's much better than what I feared it would be based on the devs describing it/Essence and Pillars, but I also miss the storytelling from previous editions, and Infernals being too new to write anything meaningful about their impact on the setting feels like a copout. I'm glad it's not the Green Solars angle from the 3e Infernals preview, but I also wish it did more to stand out and make it's own identity other than "revenge" and "not that". Hell is as gritty as 3e is willing to be but still more sanitised than Exalted should be somehow; Ipithymia continues the trend of baffling me with how the effort to whitewash certain characters is going, though closer to my grudgingly positive takeaway from Heron than my complete rejection of 3e Lover. Also I don't like how they made Ligier a more blatant Azhrarn expy. Plus his writeup feels a little underwhelming for what he is in terms. It's strong, don't get me wrong, it just feels weird the Green Sun does more sword/spear stuff than actual sun stuff. And I'm still waiting for the devs to reconcile the humanoid 3CD statblocks with their celestial forms.

2/3

>>97829030
>build-your-own form
Looking at how Blasphemy keyworded Charms work and how the preview described build-a-shintais, it's clear that Keys were definitely meant to be more than what they currently are (organisational shorthand). I definitely prefer the ExWoD approach of permanently adding to shintais rather than just letting you activate certain Charms at the same time, and the "avatar of a Yozi" thing sounds like a unique addon I would've liked to see incorporated somehow.

As with many, many things in 3e it really does feel like they threw out the baby with the bathwater and called it a day. Still, there's a surprising amount of fun to be had once you accept Devil-Bodies are less strong in and of themselves and more meant as a sort of chassis for your other Charms.

Also not amused by how they made a lot of the inner world-using Charms kinda undertuned, although the fact that you CAN bring things out you made with your own effort low key solves this. Just Introduce a Fact in there that enhances your Crafting (or sorcery, or VEE, or whatever), and you'll be mass producing Karvara in no time.

>>97832215
The real Slim Shady is based on Azhrarn.

>>97826736
i think they were running their own shit when they weren't wed to a solar, plus i believe they were heavily involved in the shadow deliberative that bridged the first and second. of course their behaviors were different then because their castes were different

>>97832378
>>97832469
>>97832493
Thanks, I appreciate your in-depth response.
>It enthused me enough to get back into the game re-learn the painstaking, agonisingly asinine mechanics, did enough right I was profoundly relieved from the impression Essence gave me of where they were taking them, and has enough lacking that there's just a little bittersweet aftertaste to it all.
Sums up how I generally felt reading it; a lot of things stood out to me as positives, and I like the design objective for certain Charms or Infernal traits, but I can't feel excited mechanically about the edition any longer; I really came to dislike "atomised Charm design" and, as you mentioned later, was dissatisfied to find that Keys were shorthand for repurchases, rather than the sort of modules Alchemicals utilized.

>Brawl
I was pretty interested in how Isidoros and Metagaos was worked into the Brawl/Athletics sets, but my residual memory of Solar Brawl was that it was so good that it was hard for me to judge if Infernal Brawl was any good or not. A lot of the Charms rambled on so much that it became very hard to interpret effects. I'd also add that I was disappointed Infernals *still* didn't appear to escape from Green Sun Nimbus Flare being the center of gravity for melee combat performance, but I was quite impressed by the Hegra Archery Charms.

>Presence
The moment I saw Blasphemous Miracle Providence I dropped what I was doing to draft a treatment of it for our 1e game. Definitely among my top three favorite Charm innovations whose absence in 2e feels so obvious in hindsight.

>the trend of Infernals just cheating in compensation for falling short in pure arete
This is the main thing I was worried about regarding 3e Infernal design conceptually; having e.g. your 1s be vulnerable in combat was, IIRC, a big mechanical deal (Excellent Strike is just extremely good) and small deviations add up. This gave me the biggest trouble back when I was trying to homebrew Infernal stuff for 3e.

>>97833591
>Blasphemous Miracle Providence.
What does it do?

>>97833591
>I'm glad it's not the Green Solars angle from the 3e Infernals preview
The whole idea of PC Infernals being prototypes for the "real, cooler NPC Infernals yet to come" was certainly an idea. I was afraid from Essence's impression that they would lean more into Infernals as angry incels, but I'm reasonably happy with the interpretation they ended up with. I'm fairly okay with them being new enough that their impact on the setting is yet to be written; it's certainly more justified than what Lunars have had to deal with for twenty-odd years.

>And I'm still waiting for the devs to reconcile the humanoid 3CD statblocks with their celestial forms.
I figure the assumption is that their celestial forms are always physically separate from their humanoid forms and never stop doing what they're doing in the heavens, and killing Ligier's human form is identical to killing him as the sun anyway. Interpreting these bodies as, effectively, their spirit sanctums also seems to work.

Overall, I'm fond of a lot of the ideas, not necessarily the execution sometimes, and the mechanics are what they are. There is a list of things I already want to appropriate and adapt, so I consider that a win. I hope other Infernalbrained people like myself who play the edition are happy with what we got - or if not, that there's enough for them to homebrew into something good.

>>97833651
It's an extension of Verdant Emptiness Endowment. But rather than changing the circumstances of a single character, the wish-granting is extrapolated into a narrative blessing for all people under the wish-maker's authority. So, a prince can wish for his people to be beautiful wealthy geniuses, and you can make this so, but he's indebted to you, and reneging on the deal corrupts the wish into a tragic curse.

>>97833591
No problem, glad to have a chance to rant about my current autism trap honestly.

>"atomised Charm design"
This is also why Investigation is my least favourite Ability tree. Don't get me wrong, it's good enough at what it does, but it has the most Charms that work with the mechanics as stated rather than get weird with it like Awareness eventually rewarding you for devolving into solipsistically ignoring attacks. Even then there are a few neat effects like World-Memory Echo (glimpsing the past), Sand-Writ Exodus (cursing someone with footsteps of silver sand that reform if swept away without appropriate magic) and Inevitable Manhunt Summons (teleporting the guilty into the Endless Desert, which they inevitably escape into the Infernal's presence). Bureaucracy is surprisingly fun even though it basically amounts to a second Socialise charmset plus some assorted (mostly) large scale curses.

>Solar Brawl
Admittedly despite my unease with the mechanics, my takeaway from both is that essentially while Solar Brawl will whip Infernal Brawl in a Charm-for-Charm contest, Infernal Brawl is designed in a way to ultimately be greater than the sum of it's parts in ways that are more sustainable. More to follow, and everyone else feel free to correct me if I'm wrong/inaccurate.

>>97833591
Take a look at Retribution Will Follow, Infernal Monster Awakened and Glory to the Demon-Monster for example. Individually each is a very modest effect compared to the Supernal Brawl Solar using Fivefold Fury Onslaught to punch you forever (and let's face it, Joyful Cessation of Restraint is just a shittier, lower Essence FFO) or reset all his rounds of control-but taken together you end up with multiple scenelongs that cut down on Essence/Willpower costs, enhances Strength when you Decisive/crash someone then adds it to your effective Initiative while ignoring some soak/hardness, reduces wound/crippling penalties and adding an automatic success to attack rolls. There is nothing like Inevitable Victory Meditation that lets you stock a functionally guaranteed hit ahead of time...but /you don't have to time it or rely on that one good hit either/

Another example is the flashy Lightning Strikes Twice, which gives you an extra attack using ANY Ability in Brawl and lets you charge several rangebands to potentially put someone in a grapple with their Defense set to 0. Infernal Brawl does not really fuck with Defense directly. Nor does it have Ascendant Battle Visage's enhanced Clashes, powerful long ranged clash effects, speed buffs or immunity to being crashed.

What it DOES have are competitive alternatives. The Infernal may not be able to double Rush results...but with Nowhere to Run the Infernal can simply attack at long range, no questions asked, with 4 bonus damage dice to boot. Slavering Horror Maw is already a pretty good heavy weapon that's just there PERMANENTLY on your face, and it can be upgraded to add it's daamge to even non-savaging bite attacks, convert damage dice to automatic successes and make reflexive decisive once per round. One Hand Fury (also PERMANENT) can give the fangs even BETTER traits, rerolls (Strength failures) and makes them very nasty.

The surcharge effect is seemingly indefinite.

>>97833591
The long and short of it is that Solar Brawl is very flashy, but from what I've seen it's individual Charm costs ramp up very quickly. Whereas Infernal Brawl is comparatively modest, but is way more generous with scenelongs/permanent effects. If the Solar gets the timing right and pops off a good attack, nothing can stop him. But that's a big if, there's a reason why Dodge has often been recommended as a supplement to Brawl, and Infernal Brawl kinda approaches fights with both being and adapting to worst case scenarios. Worth noting that Hero-Sundering Hands forces a grappled foe to either accept the highest crippling injury possible (which doesn't count for their maximum) and Star-Swallowing Cosmos Collapse (showy name but it just lets you grapple out to short range) implies Infernal Brawlers have much less to fear from multiple opponents and battlegroups.

>Blasphemous Miracle Providence
For me, the big breakthrough was seeing Distant Whisper Wind (influence someone in Essence X10 miles briefly, or everyone in extreme range for a prolonged period), Spoken Sigil Ideogram (sub Linguistics for another social Charm's Ability. Did I mention Performance has a separate Charm to use it's Charms interchangeably for all kinds of performance? Or War) and Conceptual Rebus Concatenation (use TWO Simple Linguistics Charms together!) together in Linguistics. And after some consultation realising that yes, you CAN blast people with your Torments while ravaging their Resolve.

>the main thing
Mercifully not only do Infernals have a lot of tools to even the odds (like the Brawl Charms I mentioned), but Shadow Spite Curse is back (in Larceny) and better than ever at absolutely fucking over everyone else's rolls. Best thing is unlike Abyssals, Infernals are much less reliant on actually landing penalties on people; the overall Charm design is more about either winning the war even if the battle's lost or throwing out costly to deal with effects at crazy ranges.

>>97833660
>real, cooler NPC Infernals
Holden, of course, claims he had no idea what he was thinking when writing that. And yeah, Essence really discouraged me as well. I do wish there was a bit more substance to what Infernals currently have, but I'll gladly take it over either Cosmic Exalted Akuma or the SJWs of Hell.

>Interpreting these bodies
It's a reasonable take, one thing I will never be used to with 3e is lots of things going unexplained or confusingly worded when 2e at least tried to lay all the cards on the table when it wasn't OUTRIGHT withholding the big boys' statblocks from you.

One thing that strikes me about the draft demons' statblocks is they look much more incomplete than the ones in HDNP, and what struck me about a lot of HDNP demons was that in many cases they weren't MEANT to be combat monsters. So my final cope is that the actual, published version of Ligier, Ululaya and the lot may just have a few extra things to clarify how their celestial bodies work or add to their powerset. It doesn't have to be anything too showy, I would be quite pleased with a Principle Invoking Onslaught-style hack of a Merit that just goes "Ligier's might transcends mere physicality. He can make these effects with Presence, Performance, Occult etc which makes them manifest as pillars of hellfire erupting from beneath the foe, rains of molten metal, environmental hazards with X Difficulty and Y damage etc etc etc"

It's not a hope I'm holding onto particularly strongly, because I've consistently seen 3e's development take the path of least resistance and most low effort, shallow, reactionary kneejerk response to prior editions' content. But 3e Infernals has restored enough of my optimism to wait and hope at least. That and fill in the feedback form for what little good it'll do.

Speaking of Infernal Bureaucracy, while the whole arsenal of bureaucratic curses is very creative and all, looking through Solar Bureaucracy I find it funny that there is one (1) Solar Charm (Woe-Capturing Web) that is designed to hard counter all of them as long as the Solar can match the mote cost of said curse. There is no roll-off or anything. The curse just gets negated or returned to sender by the Solar who can maintain it for as long as the motes are committed.

I'm not even mad, it's fucking hilarious how that one Charm exists specifically to punish counter-organisational mystic hubris.

>>97834034
Looking back on Brawl, I see what you mean. 3e always challenged me when it came to comparing cumulative effect or advantage because of how every non-Simple Charm as potentially in play at any time (insert another jab at charm bloat here). That said, I *was* relieved to see that they weren't afraid to make more permanent effects available to Infernals; I was concerned they'd back away from the self-transformative design approach for Infernal powers (although thankfully, nothing as unavoidably punitive as some of the 2e charms like Witness to Darkness or Hateful Wretched Noise, which I've never not seen houseruled). Scene or day-long cooldowns on e.g. Crack the Sky, or Shadow Spite Curse, really make me feel bad though. I understand why they're there (begrudgingly), but I do think Vance or whoever is in charge now overuses the idea when they were principally a throttle for perfect defenses.

Although after a closer reading of One Hand Fury, it seems to me that while transforming your arm into a weapon is permanent in itself, the surcharge effect functions solely as an adjunct to Infernal Monster Awakened and only lasts as long as that charm does (i.e. one scene).

>3CDs
I think their limitation is also a function of spirits now having bespoke Charms rather than drawing exclusively from a generalized list, which has its own advantages and disadvantages (primarily being the sheer amount of stuff they need to meaningfully interact with player Exalts at their intended level of power). Arguably demons like Ligier deserve more exclusive treatment - I would've liked to have seen his sorcery and "realm-warping martial arts" (cf. RoGD2) better represented as well, but they'd need to draw a line somewhere, and I think 3e's Charm approach itself is also to blame for that. Getting him to an adequate level was the primary goal, which if I'm correct just merges into your point about design path of least resistance.

>>97834521
I'm absolutely convinced, because the Exalts weren't written in parallel, that this was a combination of Holden and Morke future-proofing Solar Bureaucracy against unforeseen shenanigans that could unhinge the Ability set, and some degree of Holden's philosophy of Solar favoritism manifesting itself. I've found his pattern of going just slightly too far with Solars very consistent in his work from Ink Monkeys to ExWod. Can't argue that it's fun when you benefit from it though, and to be fair to the guy, Solars being first out the gate has always been to their detriment each edition.

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>working on projects on Gdocs
>Notification appears
>"This document is above the character limit. You must delete content to continue editing."
Pain peko

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>>97837246
Google docs has a character limit? Why am I not surprised I learned this fact in the Exalted thread

I just want good errata for Solars.

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>>97837655

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>>97835018
>Solars being first out the gate has always been to their detriment each edition.
That's because if you use anyone else as the baseline, the Solars become a nothing burger. Hey, here's a bunch of roided-up DBs that haven't done jack shit in several thousand years and have been obliterated before at the height of their power.

>>97837808
Considering early 1e material, it is the other way around; the devs feared that their fantasy not!WoD wouldn't sell, so they created the Solars to bait a bigger audience to their "woe-is-me self-wanking feast".
And history demonstrated that the WoD-lite splat are a worse introduction point.

So by this logic, "Solars last" would have the same reaction to Infernals, with fans of DBs/Sidereals/Abyssals complaining about them stealing the spotlight.

>>97838002
Difference is Solars are supposed to steal the spotlight, that's their whole thing

>>97838010
The issue is that they will actually steal the spotlight, instead of serving as a bait for the secret hidden masters.

WoD-lite fans already seethe with Solars as is, with Solars truly as "the rock that smash the statue of ages", they would genuinely end up in the suicide watch.

>>97837655
The developers declaring that core was perfect in every way and did not require errata was truly the greatest act of human hubris since the Tower of Babel itself.

Would Subordinate Inspiration Technique bridge language gaps (any edition)? I'd think it would if it's bringing ideas into people's heads, but if it's making them visualise words playing in their head then I wouldn't think it did, so I guess I'm wondering how you would adjudicate. And, if it doesn't translate, what the heck does thinking thoughts in languages you don't understand feel like?

>>97838738
>The developers declaring that core was perfect in every way
I don't think they said that.

>and did not require errata
My understanding is that the developers said they are not allowed to errata core. They aren't in charge, they can't just do what they want if they want what they write to go to print.

>>97839394
I call bullshit on that, especially when these are the same writers who later complained about arbitrary wordcounts hamstringing them...and still felt the need to include cuisine sections in AT8D

>>97839577
>same writers who later complained about arbitrary wordcounts hamstringing them...and still felt the need to include cuisine sections in AT8D
Pretty sure those were talking about different books. Splatbooks are much more tight than setting books. Also, at the end of the day, Vance wrote food sections all over the place in At8D because he likes talking about food in fantasy, not because he had been looking into how that would poll well with fans. I respect writing what you like when you can much more than pandering, so.

>>97839652
I respect it up to the point when it's juxtaposed with excuses for why the part of the content that actually matters to the hobby is absent. I am not going to deny the point in principle because indulging in it is how we got Ink Monkeys, I am just saying there's a time and a place for everything and that saying word limits matter is a two-way street.

>>97839652
Also, just to make the point this is not always a good thing, this kind of attitude is also how we got (folklore about a) transgender Elemental Dragon, the cringe matriarchy writing for the Realm, and neutral Lunars in Heaven.

>>97839652
>>97839864
Oh and them still trying to shoehorn in cannibalism with NOT QUITE BABIES with Raksi despite also desperately trying to differentiate her from that specific thing, for some unfathomable reason

>>97838738
I don't think I've seen the devs say that. What they've said us that no one's okayed an official errata and that no one's going to pay them to write one.

>>97839864
>neutral Lunars in Heaven
Are there any examples of that? Charting Fate's Course makes it clear that getting to Heaven is very rare, difficult and dangerous for most Exalts, including Solats and Lunars. Not 100% impossible because Exalts gonna Exalt when they reslly want to do something, but it's rare.

>>97839883
>Are there any examples of that?
None that I remember, it's just thrown out as a thing that supposedly exists

>>97839923
Is it, or rather is it thrown out as a thing that supposedly exists by the books or writers or just by random people talking about Exalted? Sidereals says this about "other Exalted" (ie. not Sidereals, Heaven's Dragons or Exigents witg legitimate business in Heaven):
>Heaven has few other Exalted visitors and fewer such
residents, yet they aren’t wholly unknown. Those with
legitimate business in Yu-Shan, backing from divine
allies, or skill in subterfuge can secure entry through
one of Heaven’s gateways. This has grown vanishingly
rare since the Usurpation, with the Solars sealed away
and the Silver Pact wary of Bronze Faction treachery.
While it has neither capacity nor desire to hunt down
every Lunar or Solar who sets foot in Heaven, the
Bronze Faction poses so great a threat that few of its
enemies could feel comfortable on its home turf. But
with the return of the Solars — particularly Eclipse
Caste diplomats — and the Gold Faction’s resurgence,
the state of play has changed significantly. How Heaven
will respond remains an open question.

>>97839946
Fuck, fucked up the greentext. Still, that section doesn't really make it sound like Lunars make a habit of just casually hanging out in Heaven. It sounds more like saying that if non-Sidereal PCs want to make their way to Heaven, it's a difficult but possible goal rather than badwrongfun that must not be allowed.

>>97839946
After some combing through the book, seems like /exg/ lied to me yeah. This is pretty much it.

>>97839999
Yeah, I also went combing through the books a thread or two back when someone here claimed that neutral Lunars in Heaven were just a thing now and concluded that the bit I posted was pretty much the final word on the matter. I remember that that anon had obviously read that bit, but he cherrypicked bits of it in a dishonest as fuck fashion - for instance, pointing out that 3E says that Bronze Siddies can't hunt every Anathema who sets foot in Heaven, but nit pointing out that Bronze is still a big enough threat to mostly deter Lunars or Solars from even trying to go to Heaven. It actually genuinely bothers me how common such dishonest reading of the material is here, when people read the material in the first place. It makes discussing the game a pain in the ass.

>>97839999
>>97840069
I stand by it to be clear. I know I read the quote somewhere and I just can't find it. Yes, it's not in Sidereals, no, I didn't claim it was in Sidereals, yes, I pointed out that it wasn't in Sidereals at the time. The quote I'm looking for is specifically about Lunars visiting their allies in Heaven among one of the Bureaus (I think nature). I am not lying or trying to be dishonest, I'm just not sure where the fuck the quote is. I am absolutely making an argument that isn't declaratively canon, but could be extrapolated from canon sources if I could just fucking find the other one. I've been scanning back and forth over Crucible of Legend which was by best guess for it but no dice, and it's not in Many-Faced Strangers or Lunars either afaics. I'm just hoping it's not in Demake or Essence, but I didn't find it anywhere I expected so it may very well be. If it's the former then sue me because I'm posting headcanon with even worse sources, sue me.

>There are Lunar elders hanging out in Heaven, but that's because 3e is poorly written and Lunars hanging out in Heaven is normal now.
>there are completely unaffiliated Lunars hanging around Heaven because reasons
These were the claims (the latter one wasn't written by me) and the precise interpretation that I want to get across isn't that Lunars are canonically taking up permanent residence in Heaven, but that they are going into Heaven on pretty normal business (based on that quote I'm still fucking looking for where they're basically meeting up with / contacting allied gods, not conducting raids or whatever) without being carpet bombed by the Bronze Faction (based on this >>97839946 quote). 'Unaffiliated' (not a word I used) was something I interpret as meaning they're not on Pact / War on Heaven / some greater patron's business, rather than something more like a Heaven's Dragons situation but with Lunars which I could understand that statement (again not my own statement) being interpreted as.

>>97840123
I'm keeping an open mind for what it's worth until you can find that reference, wouldn't be the dumbest shit 3e introduced by a longshot. I mean, just look at what apparently count for Wyld Hunts these days and the fact that Infernals can apparently be mistaken for Solars, but Exigents? Never.

>>97839394
>I don't think they said that
It is one of the reasons for why it took so long for the core to be released, it and they wanted the splats to be developed in parallel

>>97839652
>Vance wrote food sections all over the place in At8D because he likes talking about food in fantasy, not because he had been looking into how that would poll well with fans
It is the latter, it is "baby's first failed attempt of world building".

In order to make the world more "realistic", they try to turn it more "lived in" by the way of focusing on food. It is noticeable they are struggling to integrate food in the game and the daily lives of the people of Creation.

>>97839867
I think it is because some writer had her cannibal version as his waifu, this or their strange desire of making 1e Lunars work.

>>97840718
>just look at what apparently count for Wyld Hunts
It is so amusing reading Crucible of Legends advice on running the Wyld Hunt. Oh, sorry, no- that's going too far, because there is no advice on running a Wyld Hunt, what it should look like, any kind of strategy or tactics, what even is a Wyld Hunt at this point, none of that. All the section talks about is the vibes they want you to try to hit. Talking about running Dragonblooded in a Wyld Hunt game every single mode of expected play has an inbuilt assumption that actually taking down Solars is going to be easy. The challenge is never taking down Anathema, it's always circling back to protecting innocents while doing it (if you're running the world as a stage for players to be awesome on), or showing how the Anathema are cruel and mad and inflicting horrors and spreading catastrophes (if you're running the world as a dangerous place), or how things are morally grey and sometimes you/they are the hero or the villain and it changes (if you're running the world as a drama). Never are they concerned that the Anathema might win.

I feel I'm going insane, maybe someone here can help a fella out or prove it. Basphomy in Verdigris, as we all know, was supposed to be a 3e Iconic Infernal. However, I SWEAR that way back in 2e the name was also given as a John Doe-style stand in for whenever the devs would playtest Infernal combat builds. I vividly remembering something about testing her using GSNF against a Solar, and the decisive factor being how many bystanders there were.

Does anyone remember where the 2e devs talking about her in that context can be found? I could've sworn it was forum.rpg but I can't find anything there. Please don't let it be the nuked White Wolf forums.

>>97840767
My takeaway from Crucible of Legends is that in 3e, a Wyld Hunt is literally the premise of a Kamen Rider show: You and bunch of other random assholes discover you all have elemental powers, which clearly means you're destined to be best friends and defeat ALL of the golden demons out there. It's not a military institution, it's an adventuring party.

Behold, the start of a Wyld Hunt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7bKW9SlTrY

>"My mission is to kill Anathema, that's all I know"
>"Me too!"
>"Good. We're best friends now. That wasn't a request"

>>97840770
I always thought it was the Infernal version of Invincible Sword Princess. Like how Moon-Moon is for Lunars.

>>97840777
Exactly, yes! That's exactly what I remembered the name as being used for.

>>97840781
>https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/121349-basphemy-in-virdigris-and-my-apparent-incompetence
seems we're wrong though

>>97840767
It is surprising how crypto pro colonialism exalted can be.

>>97840814
Nah, older. Way, way older. As proof that name has existed long before that post, I offer this page whenever the wiki it's part of stops being broken:

http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/Thus_Spake_Zaranephilpal/DifferenceFromAbyssals

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>>97820156
What kinds of abilities might an Easter-themed Exigent have?

>>97842256
Rebirth, renewal, regeneration, both for themselves and others.

has anyone thought about how well storypath ultra would run exalted?

Do Simhata have a 3e write up? If not, where is the 1e/2e one?

>>97843649
Hundred Devil Night Parade. Pages 189-191.

>>97843679
thanks

>Siphoning Attack sounds sick-
>Oh, it's decisive only...
>But wait, two of the options allow you to make a low diff gambit (for any fight-focused Infernal) to just yoink the thing
>And Divided Focus also exists
Thoughts? I've come to the conclusion this thing is niche and questionable on it's own, but suddenly kind of OP with Divided Focus specifically because you can spam a grapple gambit on someone from afar, crash the enemy, and then lap up as many motes/health/willpower from them as desired for followup Charms. Divided Focus itself feels like it's more useful for specific combat Charms that focus on gambits or surprise attacks (so, Melee/Brawl) than conventional combat, although I also see the case use for Extreme range Thrown/Archery that can be enhanced to no longer need Aim actions

https://github.com/PrincesOfDarknessMod/Exalted/tree/main

Anyone still interested in devving a CK3 exalted mod?

Also some of my friends (new to the setting and system) want do to a short exalted campaign/oneshot, is there any foundry modules/books that anyone can recommend and should I run it with 3e or Essence?

>>97844370
I respect the hustle, but personally I feel Exalted belongs in Dominions

>>97844370
Not an official one but they do have one.

https://foundryvtt.com/packages/exaltedthird

>>97844928
I mean like a premade adventure that pathfinder has, or do you have assets from a previous campaign that you ran on foundry that you can share with me?

>>97845201
Oh no, I don't have any foundry assets myself. I've run things exclusively through IRC then later discord.

IMO roll20 has the best dice RNG, in that it feels like its truly "random". The discord bot has some periods where it rolls high and rolls low, that's subjective tho.

Objectively I can say the code for the IRC exalted bot I used a while back did actually roll high, low, or in the middle based on RNG, like selecting a pattern then remaining there for a few rolls. At least that's what my player who is a coder told me.

>>97842256
... Wouldn't it make more sense to make a character with that theme a lunar sorcerer with a custom tradition or one the Revenants who can larp as Jesus or even a demigod who sleeps throughout the year?
Memes aside they get to summon food and play around with who gets reincarnated where, they get to play around with the other calendar gods.

>>97846615
>... Wouldn't it make more sense to make a character with that theme a lunar sorcerer with a custom tradition or one the Revenants who can larp as Jesus or even a demigod who sleeps throughout the year?
This would require actual creativity and interactions with the setting.

>>97846727
Fair.

How do we unfuck Lunars, /exg/bros?

>>97847032
Well you see, step 1 is accepting that Lunars' place in the setting has been botched from the moment they were introduced into Exalted because they were never meant to playable until execs demanded writers pander to the murderous furries, leading to awkward writing about child-eating cannibal witches they later tried to retroactively claim was actually a 5D chess mindgame, all the while actively gutting them of useful abilities and insisting limited shapeshifting was totally on par with the power of Solar Charms.

Step 2 is then beating every other anon in /exg/ with skin in this game in a knife fight, because that is the only way we can get a consensus here on what Lunars should actually be instead.

>>97847032
There are as many opinions on that as there are people in any given Lunars discussion. Personally, I'd be happy if they just had more impact on the setting, less focus on animal themes, broader shapeshifting and generally some additions to their powerset. Some anons think they need a more complete overhaul, some people's essentially replace Lunars withsä something else while keeping the name, and some people - though not very many fa/tg/uys - are actually happy with Lunars as they are.

>>97847067
>Well you see, step 1 is accepting that Lunars' place in the setting has been botched from the moment they were introduced into Exalted because they were never meant to exist until writers decided to pander to the furries
FTFY.

>>97847176
>There are as many opinions on that as there are people in any given Lunars discussion
But they all boil down to 'shoot them in the head', 'shoot them in the head and use their bodies to build a new lunar exalt', 'shoot their kneecaps and replace their legs with functional prosthetics', and 'shoot yourself in the head so that nothing seems wrong'.

>the Exalted whose main thing is being protean shapeshifters don't have a coherent vision
Whoa, like pottery.

>>97847032
I've spent an unreasonable amount of time thinking about this over the years. My opinion is that, because they were more or less the setting design equivalent of an unexpected pregnancy (or reckless adoption) as >>97847067 >>97847250 describe, the best thing to do is re-imagine them from the ground up - up to and including discarding the entire animal-shapshifting Garou legacy identity. One of the major issues with Lunars is that unless you make large changes to the setting to accommodate for them, their impact will always feel minimal, tacked-on, or handwaived... Yet, you can't muck too much with the pre-RY 768 timeline without being willing to intrude on the first premise of Exalted, which is the idea that the Solars are returning to a world largely dominated by a hostile Realm. One of them would need to take precedence over the other.

As for Lunars themselves, the idea I've nursed for a long time is to interpret them as outsiders who take on masks derived from primal fears; monsters from personal and social imagination, and the unconscious archetypes that run through the collective cultures of Creation. Social and physical shapes worn and discarded at need, while preserving the notion of Lunars as the infinitely adaptable X-factor in any situation. Essentially, half Persona and half Protoype, and not limited by the shamanistic Werewolf roots of 1e. The ultimate bogeymen that utterly horrify the Bronze Faction and the Immaculate Philosophy on par with the mythical Solar Satans from legend. You could use it to draw a more direct relationship with Luna's own themes of madness, inimical otherness, and mysterious changes of self. Truthfully, I never found their barbarian animal lycanthrope identity very compelling past the superficial Enkidu or Loki comparison to the Solar Gilgamesh or Thor.

>>97847032
Here's my idea in broad strokes: The Lunars are completely fucked, and have been for a long time, and that's why they haven't done anything since the First Age. They haven't clawed their way out of the dirt, they haven't formed protective organisations to support each other, and several groups of powerful entities have formed up specifically to pound them harder in the ass, and this is still effective in the modern day.

More specifically, the reinterpretation I'd like is that they're mechanically the same, but fucked by conspiracy and their place in the setting. After the breaking of the castes they were never properly reforged. The Silver Pact is the Cult of the Illuminated Lunar edition, Sidereal+raksha mindrape explicitly included along with your mandatory inescapable slave tattoos. Oh yeah, silver tattoos are slave collars the raksha cooked up. The tattood Lunars playfully nip at the edges of Creation purely as a Sidereal psyop to keep the Realm on their toes rather than falling into incestuous infighting. PCs play the 'casteless', 'chimaera', the most hunted creatures in Creation.

>>97847525
To an extent, sure. I think more people are in the 'shoot their kneecaps' camp rather than 'shoot them in the head' camp, at least outside of /exg/. I haven't seen people in any other place propose quite as radical solutions to the Lunar problem than people here regularly do. Even TAW, which was a pretty big departure from Lunars as written, still kept shapeshifting as acentral thing, struggle against the Realm and all that. While Lunar arguments have been around for as long as Lunars have, my impression is that most people would like to see tweaks rather than a complete overhaul.

>>97847552
1E Lunars had a pretty coherent vision, and I'd argue that 2E Lunars did have a fairly coherent one, too. It's just that people didn't like those visions, especially the 1E one. You're right about 3E, Lunars, though, because 3E has a general problem of not knowing whether it wants to stick to the old lore or make radical changes to it, and it keeps kind of trying to do both. Somehow 3E Lunars are still better than 1E and 2E Lunars, on the whole if not in all the specifics.

>>97847615
>Essentially, half Persona and half Protoype
I get the latter but not the former, I never played Persona. Could you explain please?

>>97847934
>To an extent, sure. I think more people are in the 'shoot their kneecaps' camp rather than 'shoot them in the head' camp, at least outside of /exg/
NTA but as someone in the head-shooting camp, I agree about this being the case. It's probably because anyone who currently likes Lunars, broadly speaking, probably does so because they aren't as plugged into the critical discussions around them, and enjoy them for what they are and always have been. I don't think it's badwrong to like them the way they are, I've just been privy to the debate for so long (since 1e, actually), and watched every edition's various mishandling of them that I'm up for killing sacred cows and shucking tradition.

>You're right about 3E, Lunars, though, because 3E has a general problem of not knowing whether it wants to stick to the old lore or make radical changes to it, and it keeps kind of trying to do both
My read on 3e since the start is that it's generally guided by reaction against previous editions (makes sense, it's been spearheaded by the 2e fan freelancers) to the point that it's afraid of taking unsafe risks, itself. I think most of its innovation comes from changes that are low-hanging fruit (like nuking the sketchy 2e Infernal lore that everyone ignored anyway), or designed to invite guaranteed approval from, let's say, its current year audience. I quite liked 3e Lunars mechanically, but I could never shake the feeling it was more a function of the game engine's safety margins against breakage creating a flatter power spectrum than the Lunars themselves being evocative and strong on their own.

>>97848062
TLDR it's a jrpg where you harness the power of Jungian archetypes manifested from the collective unconscious as discrete identities resembling mythological figures. In my concept, Lunars would have the physical shapeshifting to adapt to problems (Prototype), but would also assume shapes and strengths from cultural archetypes, and others' hidden desires and fears.

>>97847767
That's a great pitch if the intention was making everyone NOT want to play Lunars ever.

>>97848252
It is Lunars, as long as the ERP potential remains, people will still flock to them.

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I just discovered Keychain of Creation, and I'm glad it still exists despite every website surrounding it seeming to have changed or gone offline. Fun little piece of OOTS inspired Exalted culture.

On the current topic as a newbie to the game, I really like Lunars, moreso than Solars even. Their inherent connection to a Solar makes for a story beat with lots of potential to go in any direction based on the kind of Solar they're bound to, or if they've been corrupted in some way, and their less selfish nature compared to Solars feels like a strong motivator to push them into building a community (however they choose to do so) and fight back against the inevitable demise of that community as the ST throws whatever they please at it. If they wanted to pander to furries though, they should've honestly tried harder. 90% of lunars are human or barely-animalistic kemonomimi as far as I've seen.

I'm probably going to have my first game be in 2E since I know more people who prefer it than 3E but Essense seems like a good starting point as well. I did hear that the attempt to fit every Exalt into one book left it feeling unfinished, though. Has Pillars of Creation fixed that?

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>>97849393
Keychain is the single best piece of Exalted media in existence, and I'm including the official books in that

>>97847934
>1E Lunars had a pretty coherent vision, and I'd argue that 2E Lunars did have a fairly coherent one, too. It's just that people didn't like those visions, especially the 1E one.
1e take on them was fine for the most part, even if that impression is probably me half remembering the Beast Courts and thinking "close enough". You don't deal with the Lines/Silver Pact but individual monsters and their herds and you need to write down a more fleshed out character concept than any of the other Exalted.

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>>97849393
>>97849462
Keychain is what got me into Exalted all those years ago.

Did Essence have the KS companion book release yet or am I misremembering things?

>>97847032
Setting wise it's easy. Just make the Lunars fractured enough that nothing gets done and they still fight each other. Mechanically is much harder. I would keep shapeshifting but remove protean. Instead of dividing things purely into attributes make the phases of the moon give them different effects.

In 2e they went over them in luna's lore section but you could tighten each aspect and make lunars closer to their patron rather than fucking werewolves. I hate the fact that lunars mechanically have almost nothing in common with their patron because they wanted to make them garou instead of lunars. It just ruins the identity of exalted to have every being to be a reflection of their patron except for lunars.

I need some help with research. Can people help me find any books, from ANY edition, that speak at all on the mouth of peace, the head of the immaculate order? What the station entails, any figures who have ever held that position, etc etc

>>97850780
Dragon-Blooded amd Realm books of tge different editions. For 3E, I think the Realm's section on the IO has the most information.

>>97850780
Which edition because in 1e/2e the mouth of peace is just a brain washed sidereal puppet. In 3e, she has more agency.

>>97850472
>Lunars fractured enough that nothing gets done
Some things SHOULD get done, they SHOULD have their victories, and they SHOULD matter (Caul don't count). But yes, I get where you're coming from. And I agree with the rest of your post.

>>97851705
I just mean that the board state is relatively open for solars. At the moment, Lunars are way to organized to not have a completely playing field than they currently do. It currently makes them look to incompetent.

>>97851720
Fair, fair.

Thrown is kinda lame, isn't it. Not necessarily power wise, but if you picture combat Exalts in a superhero style battle, the Thrown guys just kinda seem lame compared to Melee or Archery or Brawl

>>97849393
>Essense seems like a good starting point as well. I did hear that the attempt to fit every Exalt into one book left it feeling unfinished, though. Has Pillars of Creation fixed that?
A bit, yeah. About a third of Essence core feeling unfinished (for me) was just editing issues that didn't get fixed, though, rather than anything mechanical. Another third was missing mechanics and the last third was that there lore is very abbreviated, the last of which was intentional and isn't (will never be) fixed, since it's intended to be a lore-light system that gives you another way to play Exalted without as much of the borked mechanics fuckery.

Of course, if you're into 2e I'd still recommend playing 2e. That edition made it's borked mechanics part of it's style and fun.

>>97852441
>Thrown is kinda lame, isn't it. Not necessarily power wise, but if you picture combat Exalts in a superhero style battle, the Thrown guys just kinda seem lame compared to Melee or Archery or Brawl
Depends on how you picture it, in my opinion. Knife-fighting+knife-throwing ninja via ebon shadow style is pretty classy. Stealthy shuriken ninja is a nice idea and the only one that's mechanically supported by Thrown. Stylistically a full-on javelin Solar making big booms with mighty thews would be awesome, but the mechanics don't support it.

The problem with Thrown that I see is that there's absolutely no reason for it to be it's own ability. People with melee weapons should be able to throw their weapons, it happens all the time in the kinds of fiction Exalted is trying to fit in with, and Archery handles things like slings and blowdarts just fine.

>>97852491
>>97852441
I'll be honest, I always assume Thrown existed because the writers wanted to separate the sneaky, tricky throwing star-slinging ninja stuff from the Chadly, showy bowman stuff awesomely shooting his arrow so hard it explodes or something.

I am all for merging the ranged attack Charms, but sometimes I think they're mainly separated for fear of bloat. Kind of like how as 3e has gone on, Bureaucracy has basically just been a second Socialise charmset.

>>97852518
I don't think that Close Combat and Ranged Combat are the better split. Melee/Brawl/Archery with Martial Arts off to the side fits best for me, with Melee encompassing things like single-part ranged attacks like thrown rocks and shuriken, while Archery encompasses multi-stage things like slings, atlatl, and blowdarts. This is almost entirely based on style, rather than mechanical balance, which I feel is more appropriate to Exalted.

>Bureaucracy has basically just been a second Socialise charmset.
Hard disagree. Socialise started similar to Bureaucracy in 1e and became much more so in 2e, but as we went into 3e it has become much more like Presence with extra steps.

>>97850472
I don't think Lunars even need to fight each other. Just not having a common splat-wise goal is enough. Some Lunars wanting to overthrow the Realm, some wanting to focus on ruling their own kingdoms, some wandering Creation and the Wyld in search of new creatures to hunt and shapeshift into, some keenly remembering the Balorian Crusade and focusing their efforts on keeping Creation safe from the Fair Folk, some being scholars and explorers trying to chart the Underworld or learn the secrets of Malfeas or whatever, and so on, would be fine. You could show individual Lunars achieve success in all these endeavours without having to completely rewrite the setting.

>>97852655
Yeah, this. This works for me, for what it's worth, and speaking as someone who mostly pities Lunars from afar.

Maybe you got the hardliner First Agers fighting their beastman war (with less support from Lunars as a whole and with some petty politics hampering them more than the unity they enjoyed fighting the Primordials)
You got the forward-thinking Lunars focusing on the Thousand Streams River project
You got the Crossroads Society fellas, who are more interested in doing things like colonising the Wyld, building pocket dimensions in dreams, navigating Creation's distant underground and generally studying the mystical and the, dare I say it, numinous
You got Lunar Hufflepuff House

And you got whatever other whacky stuff you want Lunars to do

>>97852655
I'd be an advocate of just Martial Arts, myself. Interpreted broadly, with self-learned mastery of dirty, dishonorabe streetfighting tricks or just being big, strong and knowing how to make the best use of your strength when wielding a bigass hammer also counting, but with broad combat Abilities being entirely replaced with more focused combat styles covering a thematically appropriate range of different weapons and attack modes.

>>97852673
Fucking hell I am blind today, meant for >>97852658

>>97852678
I liked what they touted pre-3e release. Martial Arts would have a mundane version made of merits, with charms as add-ons for essence wielders. I'd be ok with that as a replacement for combat abilities, with mundane versions covering everything from karate chops to swords and axes

>>97852690
>I liked what they touted pre-3e release. Martial Arts would have a mundane version made of merits, with charms as add-ons for essence wielders.
Yeah, I also liked that, and it's a shame 3E didn't go with that. IIRC Holdemorke stated that the reason they dropped mundane techniques was that Exalts having access to both them and Charms caused balance problems, what with stacking effects and bonuses and all. I've always wondered why the devs didn't just make Charms and techniques the same thing, with the mundane technique being what you can do without Essence use, with channeling Essence through your technique "upgrading" it into a Charm, with greater effects but not ones stacking with the baseline technique.

Has anyone tried prowlers and paragons as a mechanic sub yet? It throws handfuls of dice too and seems flexible enough

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>>97852441
>Thrown is kinda lame, isn't it. Not necessarily power wise, but if you picture combat Exalts in a superhero style battle, the Thrown guys just kinda seem lame compared to Melee or Archery or Brawl
Wanna say that again?

>>97853174
The character you posted proves the point, there's a good reason why that fighting style gets folded into Athletics in other White Wolf game.

>>97853174
Dammit anon at least post Thor, nobody's impressed by Bullseye.

>>97853308
I would even take YJ's sportsmasters over that asshole, also Gambit was right there!

>>97852441
>Thrown in fiction.
Assassin throwers are similar to stealth archers, with more utility but with less range.

You have the acrobats throwing cards, knives, darts, etc... around.

The spear thrower hunter, withering down his prey before finishing it.

Throwers have the nuclear option, similar to Zeus or the 4th espada from Bleach.

It can also be used as a tricky supplemental ability for other characters, giving them mid range attack option.

>flicking through Lords of Creation
>hit p. 69
>Stare at Life-Sustaining Shelter Preparation
Well whaddya know, there unironically is precedent for a version of Food-Gathering Exercise conjuring living fruit from dead branches, clean water in Malfeas and fresh fish in Kimbery "As if produced by faith alone" , it's just that it was buffed by Life-Sustaining Shelter Preparation, an E5 Survival 5 Charm.

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Should the devs update Lunar's aesthetics to match the new findings?

>>97855124
Nah, neither Luna nor Lunars are about the actual real life Moon.

>>97853320
>Gambit was right there!
Gambit doesn't do fancy trick shots like Bully Eye does. To my knowledge anyway.

>>97853259
Thor's a bit of a one-trick pony, isn't he? 'sides, what he does reads more as an Evocation than anything else, he can't do it with any other weapon.

>>97853320
>YJ's sportsmasters
Never saw it but I'm curious now. Got any cool clips of him?

It's been almost two decades but I think I remember Exalted Modern folding firearms into Archery and Thrown with the former covering long guns and the latter covering pistols and SMGs, with the result that buying Archery Charms let you be Rambo or Sniper Wolf while investing in Thrown let you be like Max Payne or Revolver Ocelot. Am I in the ballpark or are my memories scrambled?

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>>97856370
Well... even Holden had to admit that Lunars aren't moon or even Luna themed...

>>97856785
...................wat

>>97856707
You're misremembering. Shards had the Firearms ability. Archery and Thrown still remained.

>>97856829
Ah, ok. How did Firearms compare to its less modern cousins?

>>97856805
>Spectralent:
>Originally, they were just werewolves, but Exalted to me. It’s probably not a coincidence I didn’t find them very interesting then. Then GotMH: Luna came out, and we had this awesome protean, mercurial figure with fierce loyalties baked at her core and an ever-changing skin on top of that, and that got me interested in them. I like the idea of Lunars as a group being adaptable and unpredictable; I’m alright with exalts being a bit less versatile than the actual goddess of the moon, but I’d still put the social lunar as the one who shows up looking like someone’s personal image of beauty happening to know just what they’re interested in or the combat Lunar being a regenerating juggernaut who looks like they’re in trouble when the spears show up… Before they start growing a puncture-resistant hide and tank onwards. That’s kind of my jam with them, but I expect it’s probably wrong.

>John:
>I invented Luna as you know her. Anyone else who loved Luna’s myth inGloriesmight keep in mind that I wrote and invented Luna’s myth inGlories. I did this out of a keen interest in improving the Lunar IP, even though I was a dark horse freelancer on his first gig with zero writing credits to his name

>>97856785
Lunars obviously are Moon-themed, it's just that the Moon isn't, well, the Moon. It's not a round piece of rock orbiting a planet that's also a round piece of rock that, in turn, orbits the Sun. It's a whatever orbiting a flat Creation that the Sun also orbits. It doesn't, as far as I know, reflect the light of the Sun, it has its own. It's not the Moon of reality, it's the Moon of myths, of legends, of vibes, of things associated with the Moon in the common imagination.

>>97856420
https://youtu.be/p8jDVZ18Hes?t=196&si=MVamFLydy2ctLU58

I remembered the scene where he broke speedy's bow being a bigger deal.

>>97855124
Just write a secret one of a kind cast like the Adamantines.

>>97856420
>Thor's a bit of a one-trick pony, isn't he? 'sides, what he does reads more as an Evocation than anything else, he can't do it with any other weapon.
He is, but so is Throwing as a skill. I hope that's just me not remembering any interesting charms because half of the we tree was "the weapon returns to your hand and it takes 5 charms for it to be useful"

>>97852441
It works for the exalts who have themes with their charmsets (sidereals, infernals) but not ones who are almost exactly similar to one another.

>>97852655
For some reason slings are with thrown but they should be archery.

>>97857125
Let Thrown have something.

>>97857230
Nah, that shit needs to be folded into Athletics for its own good

>>97857453
The problem is that if you put Thrown in Athletics now Athletics is kind of a godstat because it does so much (running, jumping, lifting, throwing, climbing etc. And given how Charms work Athletics is gonna look like a bloated mess because of all the crap you gotta cover in that Charmspace.

The difference between the combat skills basically boils down to aesthetics and it's retarded to mechanically tax aesthetics.

Like 99% of people's character concepts still boil down to
>My character is a [weapon]man/a practitioner of the Glup Shitto style
But it's just the "kill people" skill, you don't need 50 different permutations of this shit. Build your character the "right" way and everything dies in 1 turn regardless of what you're using. In the end your choice of weapon is just a vibe.

>>97857654
Split the mobility, and merge it into dodge to create acrobatics.

>>97857693
Sound choice on paper but then you have ludonarrative dissonance like:
>Acrobatics 5 Brawn 0 = Character who can outrun a gazelle but somehow lacks the strength to lift a teacup
>Acrobatics 0 Brawn 5 = Character who can lift boulders and throw a spear straight to Heaven but is apparently a wheelchair-ridden nugget otherwise.
I'm exaggerating of course but you see what I'm getting at.

>>97857746
We already a the dissonance with the current model, Nights being the strong man while pre-3e!Dawns & Zeniths lacking it.

>>97857746
>>97857769
So what I'm hearing is that Athletics Charms should also have Strength minimum requirements.

>>97857230
They have knives, batons, darts, boomerangs and spears and more. I don't know why they need slings which don't operate like a throwing weapon.

>>97857746
Usain Bolt wasn't famous for his lifting strength, and your examples still less bad than the canon presence vs socialize split.

>>97857812
>Usain Bolt wasn't famous for his lifting strength
Usain Bolt doesn't get floored by a heart attack when he tries to move furniture around the house, but that's what happens when you have a 0 in Athletics. Or STR-Athletics in this case.

>>97856887
It was over for Lunars before it even begun lmao

>>97857746
Is there more ludonarrative dissonance in that than in every strongman also being an expert gymnast, and if your answer is "yes", why do you think that?

>>97857654
Hey it's not like you could reasonably consolidate half of the charms in each tree. Jokes aside, I genuinely believe doing that or folding thrown into Archery would improve the game in that aspect.

>>97820156
Weekly Update
>Art Direction
Essence PG – Should see sketches this week. They are sketching in color to save time…
Essence STG – Sketch feedback sent back to Gong…
>Layout
Alchemicals – Layout beginneth…
>Press
Exigents – At fulfillment shippers. UK and EU backer rewards going out
well there you have it: half a year after entering layout, alchemicals has finally... started being layed out. fantastic then
seems the essence st guide won't be the next crowdfunded project, which i suppose is good for completion of the writing. instead they're making one for a... jumpstart adventure for curseborne? really? for a fucking jumpstart?

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>4e Dragonbloods

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>>97862391
Nah. I'd be surprised by there even being one good signature character.

>>97858850
>Is there more ludonarrative dissonance in that than in every strongman also being an expert gymnast
Yes

>and if your answer is "yes", why do you think that?
Being more proficient at athletics necessarily means you're in better shape across the board even if you specialize in one thing over another.

>>97862391
How woke are the new DBs?
I know they turned one of the dragons trans.

>>97857654
Athletics truly would be the godstat if only there was some kind of rule to convert Feats of Strength successes into attack successes, instead of just declaring you flip over the battlefield and the ST getting confused about what that actually does in game.

Other than, presumably, extreme fall damage.

>>97863384
>Being more proficient at athletics necessarily means you're in better shape across the board even if you specialize in one thing over another.
Wouldn't this be covered by Stamina, Strength and Dexterity?

>>97863426
no you don't because that's a solar and infernal that are trans
the dbs are relatively simple
the air aspect, sesus eshuvar, is gay. he is in a straight marriage with a mortal woman. he openly has affairs to spite her. he is gay for the wood aspect
the wood aspect, yushoto mathar, is gay. gay for eshuvar. neither are very obvious with each other apparently
the water aspect, righteous river, is gay. she left the immaculate order to break her vow of celibacy. they had eshuvar summon a neomah to give them a blood related son
the earth aspect, kingfisher swift is straight. or at least was in a straight marriage. the husband is dead now and is treated as an afterthought. it seems mostly an excuse backstory for why an outcaste found egg legionnaire expelled from the legions is captain of a patrician house guard
the fire aspect, left hand chalima, is straight. she is on her second husband after her first one died and they rule a kingdom in the hundred kingdoms together. they believe in the intou heresy and so are also ancestor worshipers, and she prays to her former husband for assistance and advice. so not gay, but possibly cucked depending on how hard you want to feel victimized

>>97863571
>. it seems mostly an excuse backstory for why an outcaste found egg legionnaire expelled from the legions is captain of a patrician house guard
Would this really be an excuse? Dragon-Blooded are living weapons, it makes sense for houses hoard lost eggs harder than artifacts or money.

>>97863571(me)
>>97863426
unless you meant the immaculate dragons in which case yes for some reason dana'ad is trans now. weird change probably done just for inclusivity but it's not like the water dragon itself will float up and start using pressurized water jets to sear of tits and dicks

>>97863384
There's more to a lot of things covered by Athletics that's not just about "being in shape", and lifting weights making you better at acrobatics doesn't actually make any more sense than a runner being not that strong. If you wanted a realistic simulation of how things actually work, you'd want a fuckload of different but somehow correlated abilities - not just Brawn and Acrobatics as separate things, but different types of stength as their own abilities, but with some kind of a generic fitness stat affecting it all. That'd obviously be dumb as fuck way of handling things in a game, though. Any rules system by necessity abstracts a lot of things, and some unrealistic outcomes are to be expected.

Nobody cares or really should care, but I am sort of lightening up on Infernal Investigation although that is almost definitely because of being mindbroken from endlessly reviewing the mechanics and trying to figure out if there even are any limits on what Projects can affect, or if they are effectively narrative-based sorcerous workings if you can justify your Influence friends being, say, a Direction’s worth of demons in Hell and roping your 3CD mentor(s) (the same one who could theoretically provide a Means in a sorcerous workings) into your zanny schemes. But it just has some really efficient indefinite Charms, and if I can look pass my instinctive mistrust of retroactive Charms effects and the Sherlock Scan focus for Infernal Investigation I can appreciate how everything is set up to synergise well even with relatively little investment. Also one of the few flashy effects, Inevitable Manhunt Summons, IS really funny. You gather your clues on the culprit, and then if his reflexes aren’t good enough and he isn’t a sufficient wilderness survival expert a fucking portal to Cecelyne yeets him there, and when he trudges back home he’s doomed to meet you.

>>97864754
Also holy fuck Mind-Manse Investigation kind of fucking sucks by comparison to even some E2 Charms in it. All those motes and time dilation, and all it lets the Solar do is advance the investigation in ecstatically numinous terms. Not conclude. Advance. Branching Future Foresight can do that for 5 sux, half the mote cost and as an Indefinite effect depending on how broadly you interpret “preparations”

>>97864786
The Solar charmset is absoultely fucking broken in the most pathetic way imaginable. We have known that for years. There's a performance charms that allows you to summon phantoms to aid with storytelling that has no mechanical componant and a speed reading charm in Linguistics that's Essence 3. Let's not even get into the absolute bulllshit that is Wyld Shaping.

>>97865437
Phantom conjuring performance is a sacred cow from 1e era, that was kept for numinous reasons

I am not defending it, just explaining.
I think the devs are retarded for it.

>>97865437
I vaguely knew it was broken, it's just disconcerting to see E5 Charm effects being surpassed by E2 was is all.

>Wyld Shaping
Remind me of the absolute bullshit that one suffered from again? I vaguely remember it also had the gay once per story thing for some reason and something about gradients of complexity to make Real People this edition

>>97865479
Every roll potentially involves you wasting XP and getting bummed to death by a behemoth

>>97865479
Many solar abilities don't even have E5 charms. Hell, War didn't have an E4 charm until Miracles.

>>97865479
Costs XP to use each time. Needs to be used repeatedly. Can only be used out in the Deep Wyld which is miles and miles from anything in Creation so no game will ever make use of it. It has a shit tonne of upgrades, none of which are worth shit.

I like the WST rebrand that has it be the logical extension of the Introduce Fact Mechanic. You stand before the nothingness of the Wyld then Introduce a Fact of what should be there, and presto, it is.

>>97865560
That's a good way to do God-King's Shrike as well.

>>97865511
>>97865537
>Rereads Nightmare-Carving Murmur
>Rereads Constructive Convergence of Principles
Okay yeah that actually is much better even with the gay once per story limit and I seriously memoryholed some of the downsides, the Deathlords and Yozis really actually did improve the Solar Exaltation

>>97865560
That's literally how Infernals manipulating their inner world works lmao

>>97865619
Yeah, had had memory holed the fact that GKS has a cooldown of "Once per year" but can be brought down to "Once per season" if you spend 12xp. I still wish the charm worked more like Moses calling down a biblical plague on his enemies instead of Jor-El predicting the destruction of Krypton. It's a nuke in your back pocket, why would you ever drop it on your own people?

>>97865666
Early 3e charms were not meant to "do" anything.
"GKS doesn't summon a calamity, it repressed your character ability of predicting calamities"
This is also the reason for why Dual Magnus Prana can create so many plot and mechanical holes.

Does Exalted Healing fix crippling injuries?

Girls are scary. That's why Luna is the best NPC. Out of all the Yozi, Incarnae, Fae, what have you she's the one that always makes me smile when she shows up.

>>97868063
What, the Maidens not girl enough for you?

>>97868283
Maidens are nice but Nox is hotter. Tbh I feel like if you dated a Mainden she'd be up her own butt all the time but Luna seems chill even if you'll never have something serious.

>>97868495
Bro just admit you're gay, streight chads aren't afraid of powerful women

>>97868495
Consider genki tomboy Mercury and emo with a sense of humour Saturn.

Mercury: Tomboy roommate wants to feel girly tonight
Venus: Popular Girl who takes a chance on the dork
Mars: Bully (enemies to lovers)
Jupiter: Tsundere work rival needs to be bred
Saturn: Goth chick you met on the train wants to have some fun (Fdom, snuff)

>>97869458
>Mars: Bully (enemies to lovers)
>Jupiter: Tsundere work rival needs to be bred
swap them

>Venus
bimbo
i'm sorry but if you build your enemies an impenetrable fortress because you wanted a nice place to have sex in the baths i'm going to stop appreciating your intelligence rating

>>97869514
Wait did that thing with Venus actually happen?

>>97820156
>https://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ
"The Stormwind Rider" - a Heaven's Reach speeder along the lines of a podracer. My Twilight successfully won a pro-tour race, loudly showing the world that he was one of the few Solars that had been seen in a long time, and earning him and his allies access to the award ceremony where they brutally assasinated a regional despot on live TV, earning the enmity of the largest nation outside the Central Empire and Autochthonia!

Great success

>>97869837
yes? compass: yu shan pg101, venus made her baths enforce pacifism on everybody she could get her hands on. it's supposed to be a baldur mistletoe situation where solaroids are the mistletoe, but as it turns out undead, demons, raksha, and any novel kind of being made in the last few centuries are all mistletoe too. so... it only enforces pacifism on everybody that should be venus' allies, and all of her enemies get to fight freely, basically.

>>97870008
Said baths being in Yu-Shan. Likelihood of a demon, raksha or undead suddenly appearing there to cause trouble are, shall we say, not high.

>>97870008
>>97870141
Actually, where does it even say that demons and such weren't also bound to not cause trouble? Pg. 101 of 2E's Compass: Yu-shan just says that "one of each kind of animal, plant, and being" was brought to the paths to swear on behalf of its kind to not engage in violence in the paths, with Solars and only Solars being mentioned as an exception to this. Are the baths discussed further somewhere else?

>>97870157
>paths
Well fuck. Baths, rather.

>>97870157
>Are the baths discussed further somewhere else?
No, but gathering one of each kind of first circle demon isn't viable, let alone gathering every second or third circle demon. Even if they just need a second circle demon of each Third Circle Demon, or even one from each Yozi, it's still very unlikely. Gathering the kinds of undead they'd need for protection from the underworld isn't possible because the baths were made centuries ago and the Deathlords are active - they can have a ghost and a spectre but if you're going to tell me that Venus went down into the Labyrinth and started picking up hekatonkhire I'm going to tell you Venus is has been replaced by a Deathlord. Put simply, she gathered one of each kind of being she was able to. There is a big difference between that and one of each kind of being. She doesn't have the means.

As an example, how would she have grabbed a Getimian before they were even made, when we roll the baths through into 3e?

>>97870605
>Put simply, she gathered one of each kind of being she was able to. There is a big difference
Well, the kinds of beings she could gather are also the kinds of beings that might feasibly get into the baths, so...if undead and raksha and such weren't included - which they may have, not sure I agree with how difficult it would've been to gather one example of each for someone with Venus' resources - it's hardly a huge problem.

>As an example, how would she have grabbed a Getimian before they were even made, when we roll the baths through into 3e?
Mixing lore from two different editions like that seems kind of pointless to me, to be honest. Sorry if I've just missed it, but I don't remember those baths being mentioned in Yu-Shan's description in Charting Fate's Course.

>>97870639
>Mixing lore from two different editions like that seems kind of pointless to me, to be honest.
There are no mechanics involved, so switching between editions doesn't seem like the kind of thing that should be a problem? I could point at any number of sorcerous outputs if you like. Literally any novel creation of sorcery, artifice, or bio-engineering, and there's a strong case to be made that almost any output of Imbue Amalgam (as one example) would be a novel creation and thus mistletoe to the baths.

>>97870141
It's actually 100%. Heaven in 2e has Akuma in powerful positions and even a whole embody dedicated to the Fae and Demons. 3e plays it a bit smarter but not by much.

>>As an example, how would she have grabbed a Getimian before they were even made, when we roll the baths through into 3e?

Probably doesn't have to. The ancestors and parent speaks for the child and all that. You get one demon to speak on behalf of all demonkind, or one human to speak on behalf of all human kind. Doesn't matter if you evolve - your ancestors made the pact and you are now bound to it.

>>97871117
Akuma are still bound by the oath binding whatever type of being they originally were, or at least so I'd assume, and I sincerely doubt that there being an embassy of Hell in Yu-Shan means that demons - who, just to repeat it, may well be bound to not engage in violence in the baths, anyway - can go anywhere they like without anyone keeping watch on them.

>>97871176
All that is true yeah. I think that the demons in the heaven embassy wouldn't be bound though. It felt more like a good faith/we have this much power here you're no threat sort of thing so them being bound would feel off to me.

A weird thing - I wouldn't mind someone playing an Akuma. If you're playing a character however and "turn" into an Akuma I'd think you shouldn't be allowed to continue playing that character, you lost, you're no longer you anymore. I know the player can just RP that themselves but that seems so off to me. All of that is avoided if you just start as one because you're already that 'new' person..... Practically speaking there isn't much difference....

>>97870639
>Mixing lore from two different editions like that seems kind of pointless to me, to be honest.
A scuffed composite picture is better than mostly empty cutout.

>>97871795
True, Akumification or whatever it should be called was pretty much personality death. 3E's thing with warlocks should be a lot easier to handle in play, though.

>>97871936
3e's version is just free charms and mutations as long as you can out Guile the demon you made the deal with

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mfw Lightning Spider lets me use (Int+Occult) for combat movement rolls

>>97871988
>Demon slaps Defining Principle on somebody
>”I’m sure to win because my Guile is superior!”
It’s funny because it’s technically true, pretty sure mechanically you can just stack those Solar Integrity Charms and then TANK conventional social influence. Emphasis on conventional. All of this is contingent on demons not having wonky Social Charms that just prevent you from spending WP or simply cheat like demonic performance/Solar sex

>Looks at 3e P-IO
>You can just put whatever weapon tags you want on the damn thing
What’s to stop me from putting all the good ones and skimping on all the bad ones, so I end up with like…some sort of razor sharp tendril that can hit out to extreme range, slams like a fucking goremaul if it was as sharp as a daiklave, was finely balanced, and was on fire?

Also when enhanced attack says it can model itself on any artifact weapon, does that include implosion bows? Probably a bad idea because it’s mostly a hefty mote cost, but still

Should the Obvious keyword be reintroduced to Charm design? Y/N

>>97873245
Nay, between some Charms not even being obvious to the player what they actually do, Solars already using anima as a secondary Charm resource thus making the keyword redundant unless you really need to stress that flaring your anima wildly to charge up your kamehameha is in fact eye-catching and 3e's meta consistently defending Ambush supremacy, the Obvious keyword is simply incompatible with 3e.

>>97873245
No. It creates gameplay issues. People like it when effects do what they say they do, in Exalted. If you put a keyword in that said 'people can tell you're magic if you use this' then it creates the presumption that people can't tell you're magic if you don't use them. However, it was/would be entirely possible for it to be very obvious that you are doing supernatural fuckery, often even specifically Solar/Lunar/Sidereal-ish supernatural fuckery, without touching an Obvious charm at all. This is going to be the case no matter how well designed the charmset is since it most commonly comes up with repetition, use of multiple charms at once, with stunts, or when people start to rely on the (lack-of-a-)keyword, all of which are very hard to design around and/or test.

It also often makes characters seem very stupid when played out, which detracts from verisimilitude. Beyond that, Lore-wise the implications make the Wyld Hunt's success seem even more wildly hypercompetent, which a lot of people don't like.

>>97873245
What would be cool is if charms with anima costs were 'you must be at this anima level to use the charm' and much more common, rather than 'spend anima levels'. As is, anima costs on charms are 100% upside turning off flare. With it changed to be a requirement rather than a resource anima going up could make you stronger by turning on your powerful charms.

>>97872455
>What’s to stop me from putting all the good ones and skimping on all the bad ones, so I end up with like…some sort of razor sharp tendril that can hit out to extreme range, slams like a fucking goremaul if it was as sharp as a daiklave, was finely balanced, and was on fire?
The ST like most White Wolf games

>>97820214

A great setting.

>>97873772
>>97873834
>>97874206
It'd solve the problem of 3e Charms being so maddeningly vague at telling you what they're supposed to enable you to accomplish.

>>97872455
>What’s to stop me from putting all the good ones and skimping on all the bad ones, so I end up with like…some sort of razor sharp tendril that can hit out to extreme range, slams like a fucking goremaul if it was as sharp as a daiklave, was finely balanced, and was on fire?
Nothing beyond that you'd need to use canon tags. Damage and accuracy aren't tag-based, and Archery (Extreme) is to the best of my knowledge not a canon tag at the moment, nor is Thrown (Extreme). If you wanted to have extreme ranged I'd say you'd have to use Siege (Extreme), but that attaches the artillery rules to the weapon which aren't always beneficial. The fire tag just replaces your Strength rating.

None of this is particularly overpowered, or even new. We were already adding unintuitive tags in core with Wood Dragon's Claw.

>>97876137
>It'd solve the problem of 3e Charms being so maddeningly vague at telling you what they're supposed to enable you to accomplish.
Would it? Would it really? I wouldn't expect it to solve that at all. In fact, I'd expect it to become even more maddening as you try to parse out how the hell some of the stupider charms are supposed to be detectable or not. Look at Hypnotic Tongue Technique, where your caste mark flashes and your eyes blaze and your spirit visibly ejects from your body to attack someone and makes them go catatonic... but the charm is Mute, the closest thing we have to non-Obvious in 3e. I've already seen (spent a while counting here) three different people try to use HTT in conversation thinking they were subtle because it was Mute and not reading the charm text itself. You're just going to make the issue of people not agreeing on what charms do worse.

Are all Elemental Dragons serpentine, Chinese style dragons? Or are different elements different styles?

>>97876395
>Hypnotic Tongue Technique, where your caste mark flashes and your eyes blaze and your spirit visibly ejects from your body to attack someone and makes them go catatonic...
2e's
>HYPNOTIC TONGUE TECHNIQUE

>Cost: 10m, 1wp
>Mins: Presence 3, Essence 2
>Type: Simple
>Keywords: Combo-OK, Social, Stackable, Touch
>Duration: Solar’s Charisma in days
Prerequisite Charms: Any Presence Excellency

>It is hard for mortals to resist the shining glory of the Solar Exalted. This Charm exerts unnatural mental influence to create a Compulsion effect. The Lawgiver’s player rolls (Manipulation + Presence). If the result exceeds the target’s Mental DV, the target receives a compulsion to follow one order given by the Solar. The order can be as complicated as the Solar desires. The target must spend one Willpower to resist the order but need pay this cost only once per day. The influence fades when the Charm expires.
>When the Solar uses Hypnotic Tongue Technique, the target is not aware of the compulsion, nor does the Solar need to spell out the order explicitly in words. If the target wishes to recognize the influence or remember it later, doing so costs four Willpower, which must be spent all at once, and the target is thenceforth fully aware of the effect. Recognizing or remembering the influence is not considered “resisting” it, and the target does not gain Limit from doing so.
What is wrong with 3e?

>>97876395
Mute means it doesn't raise your anima level, nothing else. Non-Mute magic can still be 'obvious'

>>97877148
All save Oramus are the Chinese serpentine type.

Building a high level Solar is weird. I am conflicted because I feel like I should buy E1-2 charms early, but all of my early xp is going on high level supernal stuff, which keeps pushing the E1-2 stuff back. I want my character to have Keen Sense charms but I can';t put them earlier than E4 because of all the cool E4-5 shit I need to force into the build before that to take advantage of Supernal.

>>97876137
>Head Up Ass Prana
>Keywords: Obvious
>The Solar numinously flourishes his exceedingly golden legend, dazzling yeddim and Elemental Dragon alike with a veneer that echoes unto eternity. This Charm is a narrative effect that can do whatever the players want but nothing the players cannot. Roll your Essence in dice and subtract the successes from everyone else's Initiative, including the rocks and dirt on the ground if the ST allows it. Once per story and it costs XP, unless it doesn't
I really don't think solving the fundamental problems of ecstatic design is as simple as slapping a keyword on it and calling it a day

>>97877694
It's weird because moreso than any subsequent splat, the Solar charmset is designed around the idea you WILL be a minmaxing gremlin who will go for the Supernal flashy stuff straight out the gate so there MUST be worthless filler Charms to check your player privilege. As usual, Holdenmorke preemptively solved a problem that didn't exist and shot themselves in the foot 6 times during the process.

I would say it also varies based on which ability you're prioritising, because some put the broken stuff in the capstones, others have fucking Mind-Manse and still others are literally unfinished like War. With Awareness, I say you might as well grab as much as you can because you'll need it given Holdenmorke in their ineffable wisdom decided that Solars should have no surefire way to deal with Ambushes, a design flaw the Deathlords and Yozis fixed.

>>97877816
Surprise Anticipation Method deals with ambushes, as long as you have it (it being so Permanent they felt the need to add a sidebar to clarify) you can't be ambushed. You can still be killed if the attacker can beat your Defense, but you will at least always be able to apply your Defense instead of getting shitcanned without retort

>>97875179
>The reason for its name, storyteller system, is because the ST was meant to rewrite most of it on te fly.
Truly ludokino

>>97877864
You are not wrong, most of the game Exalted line is pretty ass and you need someone with a concrete vision at the head of the table to make it enjoyable, including stuff like limits and references the game has a hard time defining on their on their own.

>>97853511
It's mostly the fact that no one has thrown as their defining feature that makes the skill look like it should be folded into a bigger skillset.
Characters like trick shot or whatever they are called sound like demigods who focused on a single branch of q single tree, but I'm too biased and drunk to be impartial.

>>97878058
Who are you talking about?

>>97878725
Thrown is more of a supplemental skill, even characters who are really good at it, doesn't have it has their main skill.

>>97877842
>they felt the need to add a sidebar
I'm just weirded out they won't simply let a Solar defend against an Ambush normally, it's not as though it breaks the game.

>>97877842
Also good lord, normal language is such a clusterfuck that after actually reading it I think it does everything except actually deal with ambushes conclusively

>enhancing her Awareness to make the threat known to her
Okay, this is a good start
>Surprise Anticipation Method has two functions
Hopefully unveiling Ambushes will be one of them
>every 9...gains a single mote of Essence
Nope
>every 10...gains two
Nope
>can only be used to offset the cost of activating Awareness Charms
Yes, mote economy important, I get it
>may retroactively lower
Skip
>her senses function even when she is asleep or incapacitated
...so, I can't help but notice that after Holdenmorke took the initiative to narrow down the Charm's functionality to two use cases. For some reason, they don't explicitly include negating Ambushes despite making Ambushes a distinct game mechanic and kinda implying they do at the start of the Charm then going on these funny little tangents without touching Ambushes

Now that the dust has settled, how does Infernal Performance compare to Solar and Abyssal Performance? I like how Extravagant Revelry Carnival is essentially a nerfed Respect-Commanding Attitude, but there are arguably bongo-or-bust tier effects at higher Essence like Sable Revelry Summons (well, not quite but it lands automatic successes)

>>97878889
The charm lets you retroactively use your Awareness Excellency, and possibly cut the cost. This allows you to roll Join Battle, and thus you can't be ambushed because you retroactively know you're in combat. So any ambush is reduced to a surprise attack. Right?

>>97879703
Join Battle is rolled during ambushes.

>>97879709
So ambushes don't exist then, because you can only be ambushed if you don't know you're in combat?

>>97879703
>>97879709
>>97879730
I feel like I understand less about how ambushes and this Charm worked than before I started reading

>>97879703
>because you retroactively know you're in combat.
Wait, if an ambush is in play to begin with you have lower Initiative. Doesn't that still not actually guarantee your Awareness roll actually spots the other guy, or is it assumed to automatically succeed? Does the ambusher get any kind of roll-off? Is this a Gambit?

>>97879771
Roll Dexterity+Stealth vs Perception+Awareness. If the former is successful, you are Concealed and may launch ambushes or surprise attacks.

Ambushes require the attacker to be Concealed and the target to be completely unaware; defined as being, if in combat, applying only in the first round and only if the target is of lower initiative. Surprise Anticipation Method implies that outside of combat, this does not apply and Concealment is enough to launch an ambush, unless the target has that Charm, in which case they can retroactively prevent the ambush through preturnatural awareness.

>>97879730
To get ambushed you have to fail an Awareness roll vs their Stealth and then also have less initiative after Join Battle. You can use your charms to enhance your Awareness vs Stealth and JB rolls just fine. Ambush is specifically the attack, and only prevents charm use against the attack, not the stealth stuff before that.

You could think of ambushes as ambush attacks, like more powerful versions of surprise attacks, if it made it easier to understand.

>>97881026
So SAM lets you roll vs the stealth roll even if you have no way of knowing you need to? Or do you get to roll regardless?

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>>97821861
Azhdarchids are awesome.

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>>97848144
Just give me Chie and Yukiko and there will be an end to the horror.

>>97820156
>Ex2e
I was fascinated by X-Com style flying subs for a while so I tried to combine that A5 underwater submarine from COTD West with the Warbird, then scaled it up to fit a platoon of people, to make it something on roughly the level of a Kireeki Skyreme.

>>97881035
>So SAM lets you roll vs the stealth roll even if you have no way of knowing you need to? Or do you get to roll regardless?
You always get to roll against Stealth. You always get to roll Join Battle before the ambush happens. Everybody making a reflexive Awareness roll vs Stealth actions is part of Stealth and concealing yourself in the first place. It's one of the main things making Stealth kind of mediocre in my opinion, in that it's very feast or famine and if you try to be just good at it rather than the absolute most munchkinned minmax best then you're going to get wrecked, because 90% of warriors minmax Awareness for JB purposes. Join Battle happening after the ambush is a 2e thing, not a 3e thing, and if you act in combat before the ambusher on initiative (even if it's just to take Full Defense, since you can't see anyone) then you don't get ambushed.

Where exalted game

>>97882269
If you've got a group you play other games with, see if you can get them interested in Exalted by running it.

>>97882282
No group I know is interested in Exalted and nobody's offering to run that I've seen.

>>97882325
Discord or you can try giantintheplayground, you can usually scrounge a group there

>>97882340
Already tried

A great hullabaloo is made in 1e/2e about Exaltations being indestructible, but afaics it's only ever really applied to the OGs. Are Dragonblooded/Alchemical Exaltations indestructible too?

>>97885107
DBs don't have exaltations in the same way Celestial exalts do, it's in their bloodline and awakens around puberty. In theory if you killed every DB and their extended family then you could wipe them out, but there's always a chance that you'll miss a distant 3rd cousin and it will return one day. Like diabetes or red hair.

Alchemical exaltations are stored in the soul gems, which IIRC are indestructible, but I'm not 100% on that

If the Legions united and marched into Yu shan, how far could they get / how successful could they be in claiming territory?

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>>97885458
It all depends on their strategy, how into this idea their allies are, and how much attention the top levels of Yu Shan are paying. In theory, it wouldn't be too difficult for the Legions to insert agents into Yu Shan, and it wouldn't be unbelievable that Dragonblooded spies and infiltrators could take down lion-dog gate guardians in remote locations and replace them long enough to lock down a few Heavenly Gates with Legion outposts on the Heavenly side that they could move troops through. Things get a little weird from there.

We can probably say that the Legion-gods are on side, to start. They're the most likely allies the Legions have in Heaven. After that the question is, is this all a Bronze Faction Sidereal plot - I could see this as an absolute hail mary from the Bronze Faction in the wake of the return of the Solars and their waning political sway, with the idea being to drive the Heavenly Bureaucracy into some kind of locked position where it's not reasonable to nuke that much of Yu Shan and they have to make terms. If that's the case, the Sidereals get the Legions a lot of insider knowledge and can probably make this into a race between the Legion scouts getting to Yu Shan's key points (if they can get significant boots on the ground and take over armories, fleets, even possibly the Perfect Lotus given that despite being in the middle of Heaven and within line of sight of the Games of Divinity the gods seem fucking blind to things happening there, my reference being RotSE's Lotus Massacre) using Sidereal-approved dragon boats on gold lanes to get around vs the Bureaucracy noticing this and getting it's fucking boots on long enough to take action.

Alternatively, it starts off with the DBs infiltrating, then detonating Soulbreaker Orbs and similar weapons of mass destruction in central districts. If they do enough damage and it's not pinned on them they could paint themselves as a relief / peacekeeping force and take a lot of territory that way.

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>>97885458
Ultimately though if they just march forward and A-walk in a deathball they're gonna get fucking wrecked. This is like an Age of Empires army walking into a Starcraft map with lore accurate Protoss. Their only hope is to go fast and stealthy and not get into a situation where their army of a thousand guys with spears starts getting pestered by thousands of invisible gods casting swarms of hornets and lightning bolts upon them.

If it makes it to an open field they're fucked, if too many gods - even just feral unemployed nobody gods - notice what's going on they're fucked, if they stick around too long they get fucked by environmental issues, if the lion-dogs gather their forces and come out in a unified attack they're fucked, if the Bureau of Seasons rolls through with the Thunder Brigade they're super fucked, and if the Incarnae get off their bums they're omega fucked. If they get into an escalating arms race where they start lobbing nukes at each other, even assuming that the Realm has managed to capture and retain a majority of the First Age's artifice in their deepest vaults, Yu Shan's vaults will be deeper.

>>97885503
>>97885535
Awesome, thanks, that's extremely helpful and comprehensive.

>>97852779
Asking again on this

Been looking at rolld20. It seems like a nice site to run games and find games on. Not sure how well it'd work for Exalted so I'm rather curious. If I run a game that's probably where I'd do it so... how are the tools and all that for it?

I've played DnD on it a few times and it worked great.

>>97885129
alchemical 3rd ed?

because in 2nd ed, alchemical exaltation is a whole process and the soul gem (with a worthy soul) is 1 of the things needed but not the only one.

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To the fans of Dragon-Blooded, the new Avatar movie just leaked in full.

Warning: It has too much muscle tomboy fanservice, it may cause heart complications.

>>97887261
Nice PowerPoint presentation.

>>97887261
I video of Toph being worked on by Deepstroke also got leaked not too long ago. Or released. Whichever.

Good post btw.

>>97887939
Toph is overrated, desu my Dragonblooded breeding stock model is June.

There's a piece of writing I'm trying to source. It's probably from 2e, but it could also be 1. It describes the Immaculate Order's beliefs and opinions about the Unconquered Sun, specifically that that UCS is a good god representing excellence in all things, but that Solar essence is too much for humans to channel without going mad with power, thus the evil and madness of the Solar anathema. I am, like, 74-87% sure that this piece of writing exists, but I cannot remember where it is. I've checked every book with the word "Dragon-Blooded" in its title, all the Books of Sorcery, Compass of Celestial Directions 1: The Blessed Isle, Glories Most High, Cult of the Illuminated.

Can anyone help me find what I'm looking for?

>>97889040
>June
Aspect? My money's on Water or Wood.

>>97886394
>Been looking at rolld20. It seems like a nice site to run games and find games on. Not sure how well it'd work for Exalted so I'm rather curious. If I run a game that's probably where I'd do it so... how are the tools and all that for it?
It's alright. It evolves to being great for 2e, because you can put a battlewheel on the virtual tabletop and have people rotate tokens around it very easily, which works much less well in text channels. 1e and 2e also run on hard distances with yards/meters which works way better with vtt than it does in boardless formats like IRC and voip, but the other hand is that roll20 and virtual boards in general struggle with the rangebands in 3e/Essence - they do fine with Demake's zones though. I usually run in Discord but I will move to roll20 specifically for 2e.

>>97889943
Try three letter combinations for your searches, PDF formatting messes up searches if you use full words for some reason I have never understood.

>>97889040
The next one is Hermione from Harry Potter. I'm hoping she looks like Emma Watson. She was my crush.

>>97887403
First time being exposed to anime?

>>97890186
The human eye can't detect more then 12 frames a second anyways.

>>97890186
Any animu from the 90s mogs Cuckvincible, even the third-string fare.

>>97890205
Invincible uses literal slaves from north korea to work on the show. All of the money goes to the actors they hire and into their own pockets.

This isn't a joke btw the comic author and the people who work on the show knowingly pay companies in north korea who use literal slaves because it's cheaper. It's pretty well known. There is a good reason the animation is so bad.

Does Denzik show up in 3e?

>>97890205
>Invincible out of NOWHERE
Rent free and obsessed, I see... but this ignores the fact that any japanime from the 90s mogs any japanime past the 90s as well.

>>97890179
I'm pretty sure it's in 2e which is much harder to location shit in.

>>97890220
So does everyone else. North korea often gets contracts under shell companies. The reason it's bad is because they aren't even paying for the frames. Castlevania is much more impressive and it outsources to those same koreans.

>>97890486
JJK and tons of other shows spend only a few hundred thousand and have animation quality that's a thousand times better. I blame the author of the comic hiring literal slaves for the poor animation quality. "Everyone does it" is both objectively wrong and stupid because if everyone does it why is this one doing it so fucking poorly. It really is a mix of that and spending money on big name actors and who knows what else.

The amazing digital circus has better animation and it's both CGI and made by a trans person. As far as I'm aware they don't use literal north korean slaves which explains the high quality. Castlevania is great, I wasn't aware it was also made in north korea.

I will be forever sad that we don't have an Exalted show of some kind but I honestly have no idea how something like that would even work without just sucking ass. Something like Star Trek but Exalted would be neat I think but that's more a me thing... Just some Anathema exploring the setting and getting into trouble before eventually gaining enough power to forge out their own kingdom and all the politicking and fantasy combat involved in that. Fans could go "OH I know what they're doing, I've done something like that in game."

>>97890336
Yeah, cost-cutting is kind of understandable but it really fucks some things up.

>>97890581
Exalted show about a group of young Dynasts on a Wyld Hunt, tracking an Anathema through the Threshold and being confronted by evidence of both the Realm not being as great as they thought and the Anathema not being as evil as they thought could work well both as a story and as an introduction to the setting.

How viable is a pure Primordial Athletics Infernal combat build? I know building Initiative can be a bitch, but Argument From The Peak seems like it can solve quite a few problems