Book Club starter questions:
>What works?
>What's cool about it?
>Why is it so effective?
>What is the best part of it in your opinion?
>Thoughts on the characters?
>Is the villain effective?
>If you had to pick a moment that really scared you, which would it be?
>Is there anything you feel could have been expanded upon?
>What would you change?
>Would you use it as inspiration for a game?

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I am playing old CoC starting with 2E, I play solitaire TTRPGs because everyone is a fucking retard who wants social lube and "good" times doing things for laughs rather than trying to roleplay or seriously do anything.

I finished the Haunted House with relative ease, my characters didn't figure out the sunlight, but we dealt with everything without death or going insane. Which makes sense as its the tutorial.

However, the 2nd scenario is very confusing. How is anyone supposed to "win" in this scenario? There is no clear way to stop the ritual. The rules are clusterfuck of a mess, which is fine as long as there is a way to win. Combat is a no go because of the Mi-Go's super high armor. The only thing I can think of is that you are supposed to run away to tell the authorities and fuck outta there and say "it's someone else's problem" which actually will result in the certain doom of the town at the hand of Ithaqua because they are doing the ritual every night with a 28% chance of success to cause a massive blizzard and snow to kill all the town, then set up a mining camp there.

My characters thought that the hillbilly was key to stopping the ritual and killed him in combat, but afterwards died to all the Mi-Go's hunting them down, carrying them into the atmosphere and all meeting their death through lung explosion.

Is this common in CoC? Is this how most of the scenarios and stories are?

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>>97834275
My main question here is how did anyone manage to beat this scenario successfully.

How does horror work in a TTRPG?

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Ran The Necropolis out of Gateways of Terror for my group last night. Two players were going to miss our Horror on the Orient Express session, so I did it instead.
Had a 75% casualty rate, but the last character made it out. I had to beef up the monster, however, as our Solider player nearly killed it in the first round of combat with an impale on their gun (they did 14 damage out of 17 health). I made it so their gun did half damage instead, though they still ended up bringing it down to 2 HP before they got killed.
Rather disappointingly, none of them even attempted to sneak past the monster and get into the room it emerged from, so they never found its heart. Instead, it died due to the tomb caving in after the exit was dynamited by the last surviving PC.
We had a good time, but it’s definitely a con scenario, and a much more combat-focused one at that. I feel like of the three scenarios in the book, it’s the one least suited to people who have never played an investigative horror game before. The lethality might put them off it if they’re not used to that kind of thing.

>>97834275
>>97834278
Many older scenarios are quite janky. RPG writers were used to DnD-esque adventures, and thus struggled to write proper investigative horror games, often making them much too deadly.
In the case of this scenario in particular, the most obvious solution to me would be killing one of the unarmored Mi-Go (since only three of them are armored) and stealing their frost weapons. It says no roll is necessary to use these weapons and says nothing about armor resisting them, only warm clothing. Since the Mi-Go armor is only some kind of web, I would say it’s a poor insulator for keeping out a freezing mist.
Alternatively, the players could damage/destroy the ritual circle, perhaps with dynamite, and also collect evidence of alien activity. This could delay the Mi-Go for a long time and in the meanwhile, as you suggested, they could get the authorities to come in force and clean things up, rather like the ending of Shadow Over Innsmouth. You could perhaps throw a Delta Green nod in there.

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>>97835140
>the most obvious solution to me would be killing one of the unarmored Mi-Go (since only three of them are armored) and stealing their frost weapons.
I forgot to reveal the extra information on the Mi-Go because I forgot about it as it's in my .txt records.
All impale weapons (bullets other than shotguns for basic rules) deal minimum damage.
Their Armor negates 3 damage always.
They always wish to grapple and there is only one Mi-Go that is alone, who will flee as the characters are a group of 3, only to go get more (6 others), afterwhich is certain death.
Mi-Gos will grapple, then fly us to death.

With Dynamite involved, that's a hard case of hindsight being 20/20. I thought about something similar
Each night has a 28% chance of success.
We drove from Boston to Vermont (4 hours), climbing the mountain takes at least 2 hours to the peak (being very generous).
First night shouldn't really count for a success as characters have no chance of knowing what's happening and can observe.
In the daytime after seeing the ritual, characters can go back to get the dynamite.
And hypothetically say that it could be, it would be on a very tight timeline to get back, wire it all up, and perhaps even set a trap for them.
But the bigger issue is arrest.
Characters failed being charismatic with the hillbillies and any investigation would certainly end with us in jail.

I remain convinced that this scenario would be almost impossible, which is why it was removed and then rewritten with the same title later on, while The Haunted House became a mainstay in the starter set.

>>97834302
Turn on Cryochamber and some rain music.
Use candles instead of lights.
Read some of the horrific descriptions within the TTRPG you're playing.

>>97835742
Geez, fair enough. Though I would still say that as long as you make Mi-Go No. 4 the one the players investigate on their own, the frost weapon plan is still good. No. 4 only has 8 hit points, meaning even with the three points of armor and impaling weapons reduction, it's not hard to have the players beat it to death with melee weapons. Definitely not easy, they'll only have a round or two to do it and need to succeed a lot, but still viable.
But like I said, old CoC adventures tend to have a lot of issues because the writers really didn't understand the intricacies of writing investigative horror at the time.

You ever have an idea for a good horror setpiece but then need to build a plot around it?

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Is Delta Green the only good game to run a scenario based on SCP? I want to do stuff with Sarkicism.

>>97837467
You could probably cobble together something with Chronicles of Darkness rather easily. The system is modular and allows for easy creation of any sort of monster or even characters for Sarkicist abilities, though you might want to read Second Sight for the latter. I recommend using Hunter: The Vigil, especially if you want to play as members of one of the masquerade upholding GoIs like the Foundation or the GOC. You might also want to consider looking into Deviant.

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I want to run CoC for the first time. What Call of Cthulhu scenarios feel the most like Iron Maiden songs?

>>97833370
>What works?
The concept of a cosmic horror interred in ice has been done a couple times before but I think this is the first where the entity in question is somehow causing the HEAT DEATH OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE despite the fact that it's completely imprisoned in ice on the literal ass-end of the earth. It doesnt have to do anything to destroy the universe, it just exists and everythin falls towards cosmic stasis.

>What's cool about it?
Apart from the big bad literally cooling everything down, it's a short and sweet story featuring a pretty unique take on an eldritch abomination.

>Why is it so effective?
It's a gradual examination of the entity, known as The Specimen, which eventually reveals shocking and terrible truths that point towards it being the ultimate annihilator of the world, if not the universe as a whole - all despite it being contained in a massive sheet of ice. It pulls off the expedition team losing their minds fairly well and the MC, though we don't know much about her, sells the perspective of a rational scientist faced with something inexplicable in both its form and concentrated malice.

>What is the best part of it in your opinion?
The line where it's revealed that the universe's entropic heat death is escalating far, far ahead of schedule: "The world is freezing to death. Not through an ice age or nuclear winter, but from inertia of cosmic proportions". The Specimen is literally killing the universe within a human lifetime with the Sun and stars slowly going out, plants and animals withering and dying due to the seasons no longer changing, the Earth's rotation slowing, and humanity generally being caught in a depressive fugue as they await the end.

>Thoughts on the characters?
Grace is the only one we really get detailed in any real form, and there's not much to say there apart from her being the POV character and a scientist examining the Specimen.

>cont

>>97833370
>>97838556
>Is the villain effective?
Yeah, I'd say so. It's a colossal serpent-like entity with white fur, rapto-claws, and a wolf's skull for a head. It's completely immobile in the ice, and yet its presence causes insomnia and madness in the research team analyzing it, it may have driven the expedition who found it to suicide, and if Grace's theory is correct, it is causing the sped-up heat death of reality. It's the best kind of weird and unearthly that I like in my horror villains, and even more interestingly, it seems like it might be some especially weird take on the Yeti given it was found under the Mahalangur Himal and is noted to have "white fur".

>If you had to pick a moment that really scared you, which would it be?
Not necessarily a "scared me" moment, but the idea of 'something' being the direct cause of entropy as a phenomenon and being capable of speeding it up is a pretty freaky scenario to be stuck in. You can't do anything to stop it, you can't reason with it, and you can't slow it down. Something that should take sextillions of years is going to be happening in under five, and you'll be forced to experience it in crystal-clear detail.

>Is there anything you feel could have been expanded upon?
Maybe a little more lore behind the Specimen and some other characters for Grace to really bounce off of, but that's about it on my end.

>What would you change?
As above, I'd add other characters for Grace to interact with, more details on the Specimen, and some more speculation/theorizing regarding it.

>Would you use it as inspiration for a game?
Absolutely.

>>97833370
I love the story, but I'm not sure if I would include it in my games given its reality destroying nature. I might consider using it as a final monster or an overarching evil.

>>97836065
Yeah, the scenario I’m currently working on started that way. The set piece is an astronomer seeing Ghatanothoa through his telescope and being instantly petrified. Love the idea that in Lovecraft’s universe, star watchers had to really worry about seeing the wrong thing.

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>>97833345

>>When is the last time you've hit your group with a good old-fashioned ghost haunting?

I always felt like ghosts were a really good b-plot or flavor for a horror adventure about something else. EG the ghost of a murder victim puts the characters on the trail of a serial killer by appearing in their dreams.

I guess I'd struggle to do something with a ghost as the main entree of a horror story. I mean, players might find it tedious to roleplay being woken up by footsteps in the hallway or being expected to protect an exorcist from poltergeist activity, if that makes sense.

>>97840722
That's pretty cool. I hope it goes well.

I ask because I've had an idea for a setpiece in an opera house/grand theater where players walk forward and the curtains open to reveal corpses strung up like puppets on the stage.

>>97841764
That definitely sounds like a King in Yellow cult situation, though that might be a tad too obvious.
Though, now that I think of it, which system?

>>97846268
Guilty as charged lol. I've run several scenarios involving the King himself before, so it would be expected coming from me. I have a thing for masquerades, carnivals, and theaters in my stuff. I spent a lot of time around opera specifically as a kid, so I have a soft spot for it.

I'd love to run it in any system. I think something with a gothic/Victorian atmosphere would be the most fun. Though, with my group, it's likely that it'll be run in 5E or Pathfinder just because they don't really want to learn anything new.

>>97847155
>Though, with my group, it's likely that it'll be run in 5E or Pathfinder just because they don't really want to learn anything new.
Oh you poor devil.

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>>97841710
You could definitely make them a threat if you go full Poltergeist and have them throwing objects all over the place. Or play up the possession angle ghosts sometimes have.
Asian ghost stories are also a good source of inspo.

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>>97833370
>>What works?
It taps into the truly cosmic horror feeling of something awful happening that you're powerless to stop.
>>What's cool about it?
Using a real-world physics theory to embody horror.
>>Why is it so effective?
I think the mystery of why it's happening really drives things. The main character knows they did something wrong, but she cannot even begin to figure out what exactly it is.
>>What is the best part of it in your opinion?
Again, the utilization of Heat Death Theory to drive horror.
>>Thoughts on the characters?
They exist. Mostly there to drive the plot, but nothing wrong with that.
>>Is the villain effective?
Insofar as you can call entropy a villain, yes.
>>If you had to pick a moment that really scared you, which would it be?
When she started talking about everyone giving up, and realizing no one was going to even make an attempt to stop the end.
>>Is there anything you feel could have been expanded upon?
I feel its brevity is its strength, so no.
>>What would you change?
Maybe add something more to the creature in the ice. Like, imply some kind of active sentience on its part in causing the end.
>>Would you use it as inspiration for a game?
Gives me the idea of doing a "you're all scientists locked in a lab, the world is ending outside, figure out how to fix it" scenario.

I feel like we need to cut down on the Book Club questions. Many of them feel repetitive.

>>97851967
>I feel like we need to cut down on the Book Club questions.
They exist more or less to drive engagement with the topic. When left on their own, it was often observed most people didn't actually bother giving their thoughts on the Book Club topic so the questions exist to actually provide a quick-and-easy way for people to discuss it. It probably "feels" more repetitive because we haven't had a lot of engagement with the threads lately (because /tg/ is dying).

>>97847435
We at least play Alien sometimes and that goes well, but yeah...

>>97853815
Have you tried rules-lite stuff? If they’re worried about learning a new system, something quick and easy might be the solution to opening them up.

>>97853995
This, or run Delta Green or Call of Cthulhu with pregens. It'd take an hour or two to stat up a load of pregens using the quick method in call of cthulhu. They don't really need to know the rules beyond "roll a d100 under the appropriate skill."

The comfiest general is back!

>>97834302

Weird question anon, you might as well ask how sicifi does

>>97836065

I would say it's how it usually goes

>>97833370

>What works?

The Purple Cloud, M. P. Shiel

>What's cool about it?

It's about first-person witnessed annihilation. Not even exactly horror, I guess, but HPL put it into Supernatural Horror in Literature, so good enough for me.

>Why is it so effective?

The introspection. You do feel like you're here, as shilling as it sounds.

>What is the best part of it in your opinion?

As of now, oddly enough, perhaps the before-apocalypse part.

>Thoughts on the characters?

Uh, the MC is cool, I guess? Solid descent into madness... well, adapting to his conditions.

>Is the villain effective?

It doesn't feature a villain. Unless it's pyromania.

>If you had to pick a moment that really scared you, which would it be?

The parts about the pressed humans by sheer mass of desperate people in a place.

>Is there anything you feel could have been expanded upon?

Nah.

>What would you change?

HPL said he felt it at times a tiny bit too long in his ravings, but I don't. Maybe there is a slight problem in beliavability (how the hell can he use a fucking train without almost any problems, repeatedly?).

>Would you use it as inspiration for a game?

Hrm. Seems almost impossible to do so.

>>97854726
Unfortunately they're not into Delta Green (They don't want to do Soldiers/Law Enforcement) but that's a good idea for CoC.

>>97853995
Any good suggestions? i've mentioned Mork Borg and there was some interest in that before, but I'm curious as to what else you have.

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Sad Memento Mori never got the respect it deserves.
Hurts that a physical copy barely exists and it's outside the USA for most of them.

>>97855080

Any horror game is probably lighter than the monster that is DND.

Some (very lite) suggestions that are good for any occasion might be Dread or Ten Candles, and they have ready to use scenarioes. Something like Cthulhu Dark is more specific.

>>97855080
Maybe Kids with Bikes if they’re especially normie? To be honest, me and my group love CoC to the point we rarely play other horror games.
All Flesh Must Be Eaten might be an easy sell. Who doesn’t love zombies?

>>97855080
You might also look into Cthulhu Eternal, it's the Delta Green system but stripped of the setting. It's more of an srd than a true game, from what I can tell, but the PDFs and the physical books are pwyw on dtrpg.

>>97856378
>All Flesh Must Be Eaten might be an easy sell. Who doesn’t love zombies?
I'm glad we've come full circle on zombies again.

>>97856570
It’s cause we’re past their over-saturation period from the early 2010s. So much zombie stuff, so little of it good.

>>97833370
I liked it but I think it lost a lot of steam at the end and could easily be rewritten for a "punchier" ending.

>...The Earth’s rotation was slowing down.
>As of writing this, we have had the specimen for five years. My predilection towards the rational failed me, and all I could think about was how this all tied back to the specimen. It was ridiculous, but the specimen itself defied conventional biology. Even the circumstances of its discovery raised a lot of questions.
>The assignments stopped coming in, and I currently see no future. Not for the Institute, not for me, not for anyone. When I’m not lying in bed, unable to sleep for fear of seeing the specimen freed from the ice in my nightmares, I pull up a chair and watch it in containment.
>At best, I can see the specimen taken from us, transported to another facility before they shut down too. A part of me wants to see the specimen destroyed. Another part of me thinks that even if I could, things won’t get better after.
>Hibernators died in their sleep without spring. Saplings struggled to sprout and gave up. Trees collapsed under their own weight. I heard various geopolitical conflicts in the world are coming to an end, but no one is celebrating, as though the game of war stopped being fun for everybody. My mother died a few weeks ago from an illness no one could explain, and I can’t bring myself to care. My dad didn’t either. No one does. Everyone wakes up in the morning more exhausted than the night before.
>I’ve been having dreams of the end of the world.

>>97855152
It really deserves more love.

>>97855152
I remember one anon in these threads pushing for it really hard. It seems neat and I would likely want to try it, but I’m also admittedly pretty analogue when it comes to my gaming, so a rare physical copy would be a deterrent.

>>97855152
>>97857987
It's for sale on Studio 2. How is it hard to get?

>>97858005
And Noble Knight, and Atomic Empire.

I want to play something in the vein of Doom 3, as in a serious handling of sci fi humanity dealing with the forces of Hell. Is there anything like that? I guess I could probably do something with GURPs if nothing else.

>>97858338
Mothership? Dark Heresy?

>>97858005
>>97858009
Ah, fair enough. I suppose I still do most of my shopping in-person and I hadn’t seen it.
What’s running it like?

>>97857610

Why is it good?

>>97858338

Hardly horror. Maybe Alien RPG tough? That is horror-ish.

>>97855080

Sounds like they've already decided, but for what it's worth, Delta Green works better when you aren't all cops. A cell of a firefighter, a niche academic, an accountant, and a retired lawyer is probably better equipped for the actual investigation part than anything else, and is much more fun for the justifying as a team and dealing with the access to resources is a challenge that promotes genuine lateral thinking. Evading the cops is more fun when you aren't the cops, being ambushed is scarier when you can't call backup, and if you do the job right and find the cult base first, you don't need high combat skills to barricade the doors, start a fire, and shoot the survivors.

I think it's telling that every group I played with started as feds and soldiers, and ended as forensic accountants and linguists.

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>>97863106
I really need to actually play Delta Green one of these days.

>>97861356
No idea, honestly. I thought there was a version of it PoD so I Googled it, and immediately got 3 links for it on sale.

>>97833345
I'm revisiting an old idea about spooky ghost and werewolf adventures in a Gothic HRE.

In the Geisterwald, on the borders of the Osterreich, the dead do not lie quietly. Ghost, specters, wraiths and more haunt the shadows beneath the trees. If you do not protect yourself while traveling, you are liable to be cursed, haunted, possessed, or killed.

Protection is primarily through bells. The sound of bells ringing against silver is a sacred rite of the Dismal Toller, the god of proper deaths and the guardianship of souls. Every settlement has at least one bell tower which rings a mournful cry every hour of the night; every wagon has bells strung along the harnesses of horses and the reins of drivers; every individual has a walking stave with a bell hung from its crown and bells sewn on the fringes of their clothes.

The riches of the Geisterwald make this worthwhile. Timber and charcoal, silver and tin mines, and control of trade routes into Kenigsreich mean that people want to live here. Spiritual shrines and ancient hofsteads, supported by the vineyards of local priests, mean people must live here. They quiet the spirits and hasten their passing to keep Osterreich safe.

Despite all the people do, the spirits still trouble the living. While bells protect, they cannot destroy. And if spirits gather too closely or corpses are left unburned, they will create monsters. Werewolves, forest demons, black imps, and various forms of physical undead are all a threat that bells alone cannot hold back, in addition to normal human greed and hatreds which fuel destruction and feuds.

The players are representatives of the Imperial Capital, dispatched to the Geisterwald to assess its readiness for war and make ready the way for the invasion of Kenigsreich in a coming conflict. They arrive in a caravan that is destroyed by haunted spirits, and have to make their way to safety, then to learn the dangers of this land before an imperial army blunders into it.

>>97866632

Cute, as it could be not the usual "smack down ghosts" thing. I appreciate the idea that people know about anomalies and accept them as a risk, also the ritualist angle it suggests ("yes, we know the mine is close to an unhallowed ground, but shit PAYS. I have four children and a pretty solid list of rituals").

I'd double down on this and try to make at least some monsters less "evil" than usual (which doesn't mean they're safe: a lion isn't safe).

>>97867062
I think I want "old powers" to matter so that there's a contrast between how people in the towns see protection and relationships to the ghosts versus how people who live in the forest handle it. There are rules to how they interact and I intend for the players' first session to be how their expedition violated those rules.

While they have bells strung up on their caravan, just as they were advised, they are forced to make camp due to a swollen river rather than continue to the next town. Chopping down trees to make a campground disturbs ghosts who drowned and were buried by the river, and they destroy the caravan. I want them to make 1-3 simple character sheets representing their "character" and "hirelings" and kill them off throughout this first session as they try to make it to the nearest safe town, and then when they get there they need to deal with suspicious villagers who already killed a couple of people who ran crazed out of the woods because they thought they were possessed.

That's the tone that I want to set for the campaign: Dangers from the ghosts, and dangers from people who have to deal with the ghosts.

>>97863612
Image Source: Cthulhutech
Wish that didn't suck.
Or didn't do whatever odd stuff 2e (it's out) is doing.

>>97870486

To be fair I think the occult agencies (FBI/CIA against bad sorcerers or cults) part had some dignity. I mean, the system still was an unplayable eldritch horror, but that part didn't directly feature PCs rape, mass (borderline) pedophilia or the tortured fetuses thing.
It's strange to think that overall the totally-not Evangelion mecha part wasn't particulary edgy either, just your average grimndark war bullshit.

>>97871540
The what thing?

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As we all know, THEORETICALLY human magic in Lovecraft works on the lines of "imagine really hard in your mind something, the ritual is how you manipulate the hypergeometrical reality".

Or... this is more or less the very little we can systematize about it, without going into more exotic explanations (like, OOM, "magic is the biological technomagic corpuscles in Earth's biosphere that we, descendants of the shoggoths, can possibly manipulate").

Now: this is all fine and dandy to me, but how to make it work with the not trivial amount of old dark magic sheaningans we witness in the fiction? I mean, I can't really imagine how blood sacrifices would be useful to Kezeiah if we're going with this.

Pic more or less related.

>>97871654

Get a living fetus (or newborn, can't remember), put it in a desktop size hitech case, torture it for a few months in life support, get ruach (magical energy). Sell it for a few bucks to sorcerers.
This was the excellent, very economically sound and totally not edgier than bismuth plan by the Crysalis Corporation. Which, to be fair, is THE evil corp that markets itself as good: the boss is motherfucking Nyarlathotep.

Still, it's pretty clear that the goal of this thing is the shock value for the players, to let them find in a sorcerers' den for really, REALLY nail in their heads that corps are bad (or this one is). The rape machine works on the same lines, even, and that IIRC has no Nyarly behind the project.

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>>97871771

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>>97866632
>>97867133
That sounds really cool, anon. Gives me Darkest Dungeon vibes (even if it's not exactly the same kind of horror).
What system are you planning on using?

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>>97870486
Ah, fair enough. I never played Cthulhutech, so didn't recognize the art.
What sucks about it? I felt it was an odd mix of sub-genres, so it didn't especially appeal to me, so I never picked it up.

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>>97871697
I think the idea there is that blood sacrifices are the only way humanity found to perform a specifically required act to cast certain spells.
Like, it's ACTUALLY all down to mathematics and physics, but we haven't even begun to understand the underlying mechanics of it all. But we do know that if you stab a guy with a specific kind of knife at a specific time of day under a specific star, this magical effect will happen. So we keep doing that.
Meanwhile, because the GOOs and Outer Gods understand all the underlying mechanics, they can just cast spells whenever they want and to greater effect than we ever could.

>>97873467
Some guy already posted the thing but really the worst part is the system and its poker dice

Last I checked with 2e it's starting off by separating the playstyles so the first book is all about being Eldrich Rangers though it now has a half dozen extra hybrid races instead of humies and drow.

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>>97874344

>>97874365
>You can play a cat girl in a Lovecraft game
That just seems wrong.
How many Niggermam jokes do you think were made?

>>97874365
Good lord what is this layout?

>>97875451

It's two pages.

>>97873467

Mechanics aside (and even then, fucking up probability it's not something you see everyday):

At the very least four different games with very different levels of detail
It's not really clear what is supposed to be grimndark in the NEG or is a bastion of hope (strange as it sounds, it's pretty baffling. Not to focus too much on sex, but is the fact that everyone is not a virgin after 15 supposed to represent a progressive society or a desperately selfish one?)
A whole lotta of 'Murrika militarism (in a surprinsigly socialist economy setting. Within a totalitarian, if justified, control over the pouplation access to truth)
Controversial, but: it sticks too much to Chaosium intepretations of things like madness and cheap use of gods and monsters.
The interface with the anime sources is probably worse than the one with Lovecraft and his closer circle. What I mean is, you get shit like suggestions of Macross-style "counterpart" to the pilots' lives in the mecha version. As in, sprinkle eldritch war with lovecom sheaningans.
And yes, generic edginess. To be fair, I think the really bad instances of this would be the easiest to cut off, even staying faithful to the whole thing. At the same point, it's kinda at the core of the thing: you fight with alien mechas and the war puts you close to the edge because it's horrible. You fight the sorcerers as the magic CIA and it put you close to the edge because the same, and so on. Kinda difficult not to use edginess in spades, as it's mostly focused on combat and revelations of bad shit. The better part (the Guyver eldritch superheroes) is possibly the one that NEEDS more of edginess, gore, sex and evil corporations.

This is the in-your-face bad. Which probably means that with a better system, you could do it. I just skimmed through the new game and you know what? I can't remember how it works, I just remember catgirls.
Now for the good, that is more complicated.

>>97873474

Yeah but in this case I just can't really see Yog-sothoth/the whole platonic-like magical realm really giving a fuck about blood not being in someone's veins. It's like, I dunno, a hadron collider giving a fuck if the guy pushing the buttons is wearing his favorite shirt.

Don't think it's that pointless to ask, 'cause you know what blood sacrifice means? That the Powers crave our vitality, in some form, or at least it has so "energy". Which seems to me very counter to the whole "humans per se mean nothing" shebang.

I suppose you could go with something like "it actually doesn't mean shit, but the sorcerer fucks over his brain by breaking the taboo", OOM; but I don't think it's very effective in the narrative, especially with the usual crazy HPL-sorcerers that stopped caring about people decades ago.

>>97876541
I get that its two pages, it's two pages of dogshit.

>>97876651

It's CT, you shouldn't get your hopes up anyway (well, for every single thing, at least).

>>97877843
Ive never really understood the appeal of nihilist Cthulhu mythos.

>>97878053

Like what?

Because the single actual nihilist cult in HPL proper is very interesting when you stop and analyze it, or at least don't take it as the source for cult-bashing COC sheaningans.

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>>97876606
>I suppose you could go with something like "it actually doesn't mean shit, but the sorcerer fucks over his brain by breaking the taboo", OOM; but I don't think it's very effective in the narrative
I would argue that's pretty effective and in-tune with Lovecraftian themes. These cultists and sorcerers are desperate to feel important, to assign meaning to these cosmic powers that are more forces of reality than they are sentient beings with wants and desires. They worship these "gods" and perform these elaborate rituals because if they actually realized how much that doesn't matter, they would realize how small and ineffectual their place in the universe really is.

>>97878194
Jesus, I don't know how I fucked that up. I meant to type "nihilist anime Cthulhu mythos."

>>97879012
Which anime is that?

>>97880888
Im talking about Cthulhutech. The genre mashup doesn't appeal to me.

>>97878878

Eh. Since prehuman times, I would expect SOMEONE to notice that human blood is not needed. I mean, it's not actually trivial to kill someone, right? It's not something sorcers would just do because it's cool.
And to write it down, because ironically if there is one imaginary magic tradition that IS written down it's yog-sotothery.

(I personally tend to depict sorcerers as smart enough to get that yeah, there is a lot of undue symbolism and alchemy-style "fog of war" in the traditions, but your mileage may vary on this)

>>97880938

I guess that the sentiment was more or less something like:
a) Lovecraft depicts cosmic nihilism
b) 80-90s edgy OVAs and whatnot are pretty cynical and tend to end up in washed-up nihilism
c)???
d) Profit!

Myself, I think the apocalypticness of, say, NGE isn't totally out of place of some interaction with HPL's one, but hot jet black nekkid aliums isn't probaly to way to do it.

Are all horror rpg systems lawsuit traps like savage worlds?
>>97880483 is asking

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>>97863612
Delta Green good. I been running my own game for about three years. It's been good.

>>97883468

How many agents have you "retired"?

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>>97883500
My players are pretty smart and know the combat mechanics well enough not to make any stupid decisions, and in my scenarios I tend away from the "oh you blinked while facing the wrong direction thereby activating the spell that rapes your character for a hundred years" stuff that some of the official scenarios have done.

I've had one character get killed by friendly fire while fighting a Y'Golonac cultist. In a moment of panic his teammate fired a grenade at the Y'Golonac avatar, failed his roll, and shot it into the room his buddy was in, guy failed his DEX roll, ka-boom.

A while later, the guy that killed his own teammate hit zero SAN and let himself be captured by Majestic. Once he was inside OUTLOOK Group, he said the true name of Y'golonac and shit went ballsitic.Delta Green is still searching for him.

One of my players in another storyline got shot up really bad by the Skoptsi and was about to bleed to death in Moscow-on-the-Chesapeake. Her cellmate broke protocol and used the Skoptsi's own shub-niggurath healing spell to save her life.

So not many. But I'm looking to change that soon. One of my cells is getting close to attacking the Karotechia's headquarters in Brazil and I've warned them that's going to be a slaughter.

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>>97883536
>>97883500

pic related is the Y'Golonac avatar. The former Agent MONTY. It would be a very long story but basically after OUTLOOK he was kidnapped by the Fate, kept in a hole for six months, then they sold him to the Exalted Circle (the rich cthulhu cult) as a mercenary. The Exalted Circle are plotting to leverage a coup against Majestic, MONTY's role will be to accompany some mercenaries in seizing a Majestic facility as leverage. The Circle's coup attempt is going to fail, it's been sabotaged at almost all levels. Majestic knows about the insiders, and the whole thing is a scheme by the circle's leadership to provoke Majestic into killing off most of the cult's lower members, who the leaders believe no longer are really "keeping the faith". MONTY was sold to the Circle by The Fate because they know he'll go apeshit and immediately try to destroy the Majestic facility he's sent to (by activating its nuclear self-destruct sequence) instead of capturing it.

When your game's gone for three years, some weird, convoluted shit can happen.

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>>97883536
>I tend away from the "oh you blinked while facing the wrong direction thereby activating the spell that rapes your character for a hundred years" stuff that some of the official scenarios have done.
God, this fucking reminds me of Horror on the Orient Express. I'm running it right now and in the second-goddamn chapter, rules as written, there's an unavoidable player death moment.
Now, the chapter is optional, but still, you're just supposed to kill a PC off without them having a chance or choice.
I, sensibly, did not do that and then the PC who it was supposed to happen to died anyways... sort of. We made a house rule that, once per character, you can do the Pulp Cthulhu "spend all your luck to not die" rule, so he had to use it then.
We're pretty deep into the campaign now and coming in our second likely opportunity for PCs to die, at least in the main party. We've had PCs in the flashback chapters died, and plenty of them, in fact.

>>97882218
Keep in mind your average sorcerer and cultist doesn't know the full truth about reality, they only know more of the truth than the average person. And said knowledge has no guarantee to be accurate. So if he learned to summon eldritch entities using human sacrifice then he's gonna keep doing it because it's what he knows works even if he doesn't know why it works.

>>97882218
>the apocalypticness of, say, NGE isn't totally out of place of some interaction with HPL's one
i think you could hardly pick two less compatible apocalypses honestly

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My deconstruction universe where literary tropes manifest as aberrations and monstrosities turned out well.

>>97884269
This. It’s hilarious how many cult leaders in CoC have a Cthulhu Mythos score of, like, 15-30%. They don’t know shit.

>>97884269

I said smart enough, not "all knowing". Consider for this Wilbur Whateley or Curwen. Besides, I loathe Chaosium and wouldn't use their system.

>>97884696

Are they tough? Lovecraft's apocalypses' are pretty vague, besides The Call. Granted, he doesn't suggest improv psychoanalysis, but still.

>>97887772
eva is all about the primacy of the human experience, thematically but also in-universe. it all happens as a direct result of human actions and it hinges on the personal connections formed between humans and the cosmic beings. (who are also in human form and experiencing human emotions) i just don't see how you could square any of it with lovecraft's approach to horror and the cosmic.

>>97888400

Pretty simple, really (at least if you don't mind getting a bit out of HPL proper - yes, it would be more pyscological than him, but remember he loved Poe's hypersensitive characters)

The Instrumentality is your Y'ha-nthlei. And while NGE doesn't exactly picture it as such, search your feeling and tell me it that persecptive isn't both absolutely terrible and absolutely beautiful.

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>>97887772
>Besides, I loathe Chaosium and wouldn't use their system.
Man, I swear so few people in this general like CoC.

>>97885641
Happy for you, anon.

>My deconstruction universe where literary tropes manifest as aberrations and monstrosities
I'm interested in learning more about thus universe, just based on that description and the screenshot alone.

>>97890187
Contrarians

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>>97890187

When it was just theorycrafting for me I didn't like the idea of a percentage based system. In practice though it's really nice to be able to pass out sheets for a Halloween one-shot and everyone can understand what they need to roll and what their character is good at right off the bat.

Kinda similarly, people always talk about the nihilism and giant monsters you have no chance of defeating. But if you read the published modules a lot of them revolve around a local entity or weakened spawn/avatar of one of the big bads that you could conceivably win a victory against or unsummon. It's also pretty easy to use the system for other types of horror.

Any decent adventures come out lately? (for whatever system)

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I've considered running Sutra of Pale Leaves in modern day, because I feel like it wouldn't change much beyond the decline of the Yakuza for Pallid Masks. I'm also more familiar with modern day Japan than 80's Japan.

>>97891379
I feel like CoC still has an undue reputation from its early days, when a lot of module writers didn’t realize how different adventures had to be compared to DnD.
You’d have shit like “in this random room in the haunted house, there are three ghouls for the party to fight,” which any seasoned CoC Keeper could tell you is a death sentence for most parties.

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>>97891555

Modules were always kinda funny that way. When I was younger I never wanted to mess with them because they were written by The Experts. Now I get the feeling a lot of them were meant for big convention games with large 6 man parties or just weren't playtested at all.

Not CoC of course but I ran picrel as a teenager and there was an absolutely insane number of battles against oni that would demolish PCs of the suggested rank.

>>97891122

Maybe some people have just different opinions.

>>97890187
>Man, I swear so few people in this general like CoC.
Like >>97887772 I also hate Chaosium: they went full woke (like almost all others RPG publishers) and never did anything good with CoC, publishing subpar modules, campaigns and adventures. I always hoped for better shooting rules, or better magic rules, but they did nothing...
Delta Green (even though I despise their creators) managed to do a better job rulewise (shooting rules are MUCH better), so I got to the point where if I did had to play CoC, I would house-rule it with stuff from DG.

Give me advice for playing some King in Yellow adventures, people. More on the lines on techniques and suggestions, the scenario is an official one.

(not the game of the name itself, tough it seems nice)

>>97892877

I have Hastur Autism. What module? Would help so I can give more specific advice.

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>>97892216
I dunno man. Maybe it's because I've dealt with much worse companies being behind the games I love, but I've got no problem with Chaosium. And I'm sort of in an opposite camp to you. Something that's held me back from running DG is it missing a bunch of stuff CoC 7e has.

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>>97892889

>>97892903

Huh. Don't know this module but I like Pelgrane's stuff.

Hastur is an insidious force. He whispers in your ear that this isn't how things really are. He's infectious, webbing his way into your brain and those around you, and he tells you what you want to hear. He warps your perception of reality, see: The Crown in Repairer of Reputations, where Hildred sees it as a real crown but Louis sees it as cheap and flimsy.

Hastur is trying to influence you and infect others. The common idea I see is that it's a sentient virus Like any virus, its main goal is to reproduce and spread. Those affected by him tell you to read The King in Yellow or the Imperial Dynasty of America or whatever Infected Work the King is manifesting through.

Hastur is magnificent. Carcosa is beautiful. Lost Yhtill is beautiful. The King in full form appears in fine silk robes and a golden crown and porcelain mask so white you can see your reflection in it. Lost Yhtill is tragic, the beauty tarnished and lost. The kingdom fallen.

Play with the Mandela Effect a bit. Play into Lost Media. One neat thing I've had is photographs of an Yhtill Pavilion at the 1893 Columbian Exposition. People affected by Carcosa INSIST on their version of reality.

>>97892967
Hastur is not a big destructive monster like Cthulhu. He would be heralded by horns like a king if he were to get out, but arguably, in some ways, the silent virus method is just as dangerous and insidious.

>>97892896
>Maybe it's because I've dealt with much worse companies being behind the games I love
I know exactly what you mean. I do admit that Chaousium is one of the least worse modern RPG companies, compare to WotC and the rest.
>Something that's held me back from running DG is it missing a bunch of stuff CoC 7e has.
You're referring to DG being an Agent-game only?
If so, I agree. But, you could simply take the old DG setting for CoC and use the shooting rules from modern DG.
Also, is Sutra of Pale Leaves good?

>>97893066
NTAYRT but I really like Sutra. It does some weird stuff like the characters insistence that The King in Yellow that we see in Repairer and such is only a "False Prophet" or the implication that the Sutra is the origin of The King in Yellow but I think that can all be handwaved as that being the *characters* and not necessarily *the objective truth*.

I also think The Fixer could have used some filler material, but that may be me not really liking sandboxes and wanting some information.

Also I usually don't like RPG Pregens but I think it has a solid set.

>>97879012
>"nihilist anime Cthulhu mythos."
>>97880938
>The genre mashup doesn't appeal to me.
Apparently the mashup didn't appeal to the makers either because they completely retconned the fight a hopeless battle against the end of the world into a fairly certain victory that had nothing to do with any of the previous metaplot.
Very disappointing to read.
And yes, the layout went to complete shit too

>>97893066
>You're referring to DG being an Agent-game only?
Naw, more so game mechanic stuff. I like how CoC 7e made attributes into percentiles like skills, as well as the Pushed Rolls, Bonus/Penalty Die and the different difficulty levels for rolling.
I feel like when I run DG, I'm going to forget those things aren't in the game and it'll trip me up.

>>97893231
Dude, I am so with you on this. I've said it before, my ideal game would be a Frankenstein of DG and CoC.

>>97893348
Yeah agreed. I’d love to grab the Bonds system and the Lethality Rating rules from DG and merge them into CoC.

>>97892967
>>97892979

Sounds like solid advice, but I think I do grok Big H enough. Would like more down to earth suggestions. Say, for

>He warps your perception of reality

How to do that at the table? Go wild like I've read in some adventures, describing a thing differently for a different player?

>>97895363
Yeah! That could work! Again, the Crown scene from Repairer of Reputations is a great example. If one player is more affected by The King's influence, then they might see something as more grand than it actually is.

A hallway might change to something else midway through only to change back. Words on a page seem to drift and morph, forming the text of The King in Yellow. Alice in Wonderland Syndrome might also be a good idea.

>>97895434

Yeah, problem is that it's the first time I try doing Hastur so I hope it's not be too much. OOM I should focus on a secondary, fleeting detail that's not gonna become a red herring (the adventure does have external pressure in spades, but still).

>Words on a page seem to drift and morph, forming the text of The King in Yellow. Alice in Wonderland Syndrome might also be a good idea.

Makes sense.

>>97893348
>my ideal game would be a Frankenstein of DG and CoC.
>>97895181
>I’d love to grab the Bonds system and the Lethality Rating rules from DG and merge them into CoC.
I agree with both of you.
Like I've said before >>97892216 , I really like the Lethality rules, but I would love to see a better magic system...

>>97895726
The magic system of CoC is exactly what it needs to be, it is dangerous, hard to learn, corrosive to the sanity, and more often than not is treated as a last resort. It's perfect for what it is.

>>97885641
Sounds interesting.

>>97895770
>The magic system of CoC is exactly what it needs to be, it is dangerous, hard to learn, corrosive to the sanity, and more often than not is treated as a last resort. It's perfect for what it is.
It's too much punishing for me.
I always wanted to run a game where a group of PCs occultists/mages/witches/wizards/whatever that goes around and tries to investigate mysterious happening around the world, sometimes finding supernatural hazards, and sometimes just human mischief.
In CoC and DG magic is just too much "AAAAH! I'M GOING INSANE! SAVE ME NIGGERMAN!"-tier that such a thing cannot work. Even in S&S novels, magic is not THAT bad, and I see that as a limit for the possibilities in-game.

>>97895829
That's not CoC then. You want to play an entirely different game with an entirely different premise. Magic in CoC is supposed to be anathema to the human understanding of reality, or even to humans as biological beings, casting a spell in CoC is meant to be seen as a really bad idea that should only be entertained in the most dire of consequences. If you gave your players a teleport spell and didn't make it extremely punishing to use they'd use it all the time and utterly ruin the feel of the game.
Maybe something like nameless cults might be what you're looking for? Alternatively, one of the WoD mage games but set in the Mythos.

>>97895883
>Magic in CoC is supposed to be anathema to the human understanding of reality, or even to humans as biological beings, casting a spell in CoC is meant to be seen as a really bad idea that should only be entertained in the most dire of consequences.
I believe that should be true, but only for eldritch sorcery and knowledge, not for all occult things and knowledge that ever existed.
Look at cults and magic organizations that existed in real life: not all their members went insane!
>If you gave your players a teleport spell and didn't make it extremely punishing to use they'd use it all the time and utterly ruin the feel of the game.
Again, there should be a line between "teleport spell"/"fireball" and "astral projection"/"being a medium".
>Maybe something like nameless cults might be what you're looking for?
Not my cup of tea, unfortunately.
>Alternatively, one of the WoD mage games but set in the Mythos.
I've those manuals, and WoD mages are turbo overpowered; some could blast most CoC monsters easily.
I was looking for something more down to earth...

>>97895829

TOC magic is cool in that first of all you don't just go mad from reading tomes, but you generally spend stabilit/magic from your pool. This is harsh (points don't grow on trees) but manegeable.

That being said if you actually want wizards wizardin's investigations, >>97895883 is right, cthulhian shit is probably not where you want to get your game. I'd suggest not taking in consideration Mage anyway (I don't like WOD, but it's doable: it's just mage that is heavy as fuck).
Check out Urban Shadows and Monster of the Week. Possibly City of Mist.

>>97895913
>I believe that should be true, but only for eldritch sorcery and knowledge, not for all occult things and knowledge that ever existed.
You don't lose sanity by increasing your occult score, just your cthulhu mythos score.
>Look at cults and magic organizations that existed in real life: not all their members went insane!
The difference that in CoC, mythos magic actually works.
>Again, there should be a line between "teleport spell"/"fireball" and "astral projection"/"being a medium".
Anything that, yknow, breaks the laws of reality should be treated as a big deal. No magic should feel "minor". You are dealing with arcane forces beyond human understanding.

>>97895914
>TOC magic
Sorry, what's that?
>I'd suggest not taking in consideration Mage anyway (I don't like WOD, but it's doable: it's just mage that is heavy as fuck).
Thanks, but I've already discarded that option.
>Check out Urban Shadows and Monster of the Week. Possibly City of Mist.
I'll check them, but I had already discarded Monster of the Week.
>>97895922
>No magic should feel "minor".
I disagree on that. There should be space for minor supernatural happenings, like poltergeists.
Alright, let me give you an example of what I would like: have you ever read Hellblazer?
Something like that, basically.
Or the more down to earth stories of B.R.P.D./Hellboy.
Stories where horror, magic and supernatural is there, but more real-life, not going over-the-top, like Harry Dresden.
A movie that I've seen recently was Clive Barker's Lord of Illusions: that's a good example.

>>97895937
>Sorry, what's that?

Trail of Cthulhu.

>>97895937
Eh, when I play/run CoC I like it when it's all Mythos. I don't like having non-Mythos magic be a thing at all, it should all ultimately tie back to the same arcane forces of Cthulhu or Shub-Niggurath.

>>97895937
Eh, when I play/run CoC I like it when it's all Mythos. I don't like having non-Mythos magic be a thing at all, it should all ultimately tie back to the same arcane forces of Cthulhu or Shub-Niggurath.

>>97895943
>Trail of Cthulhu.
Oh, that. I've read the manual years ago, but I hated the clue point system with the passion of a thousand suns!
I've also read their vampire game, but I tossed it quickly. I don't like GUMSHOE as a system.
>>97895950
>>97895963
>I don't like having non-Mythos magic be a thing at all
It's the opposite for me: I started with the 5th edition, and I was really impressed to find all the old monsters, like the vampires, in there!
Please, don't tell me I have to make my own game for this...

>>97895829
CoC actually has you covered. In the Grand Grimoire they have an entire category of magic called, I believe, Folk Magic.
Anyways, it's magic that's not derived from the mythos and, as such, doesn't cost sanity to case, nor generally cause other negative effects to the caster. You could totally load PCs up with those spells.
Though, as other anons have said, it seems like you're looking for a game other than Call of Cthulhu.

>>97896659
>CoC actually has you covered. In the Grand Grimoire they have an entire category of magic called, I believe, Folk Magic.
>Anyways, it's magic that's not derived from the mythos and, as such, doesn't cost sanity to case, nor generally cause other negative effects to the caster. You could totally load PCs up with those spells.
Thanks, I'll look it up!
>Though, as other anons have said, it seems like you're looking for a game other than Call of Cthulhu.
I just want to play a modern horror game, where magic could be choice for the PCs, but CoC is really too punishing on that front...

>>97895966
>but I hated the clue point system
Just by phrasing it this way, I can tell you didn't actually understand the system.

>>97896944
>Just by phrasing it this way, I can tell you didn't actually understand the system.
When I ready it, it seems to me that you would always had vital clues revealed to the PCs, without risking to lose one.
Wasn't it like that...?

>>97896982
Gumshoe functions under the assumption that the characters are competent investigators, and therefore always end up with enough information to move the investigation forward. You don't spend points to get clues, and framing it as such makes me think you didn't really get it.

>>97896991
I've read the manual years ago, I started losing interest when I realized you couldn't risk being stalled in your investigation.
Seemed a way to railroad an investigation to success, when a missed clue or a misinterpretation would've gotten the players in dire straits.

>>97897004
There's nothing that says a player can't misinterpret clues. It just says the characters will find the necessary clues to move the game state forward. It's no more or less likely to be railroaded than literally any other kind of game.

>>97897004
>I started losing interest when I realized you couldn't risk being stalled in your investigation.
Yeah me too, I hate it that the game can't grind to a fucking halt where nothing interesting happens, that's the fucking worst!

>>97897008
>There's nothing that says a player can't misinterpret clues.
Still, it sounds like hand holding the PCs to me: the only way to fail the investigation is the players misinterpreting clues...
I preferred the CoC approach, where you would risk everything, body and mind, to get the clear picture, as much as you can.
>>97897011
>I hate it that the game can't grind to a fucking halt where nothing interesting happens, that's the fucking worst!
Look, failing the investigation doesn't mean "nothing interesting happens", it should be more like "bad consequences are coming".

>>97897039
>where you would risk everything, body and mind, to get the clear picture, as much as you can.
That's still the ToC approach. You're fundamentally, and I think maybe purposefully, misunderstanding the system.

Or are you saying that you want a situation where everyone blows their library use roll and they can't move forward? Because that's literally all we're talking about.

>>97897046
>Or are you saying that you want a situation where everyone blows their library use roll and they can't move forward? Because that's literally all we're talking about.
I must've misunderstood the system then.
So, what are the good points of ToC? What are the bad ones?

The problem with ToC, and other Gumshoe games, isn't the clue system in of itself, but rather how it gameifies itself through the point spends as a sort of narrative currency, which is a stark contrast to CoC where skill is a constant expression of likelyhood of success.
This doesn't make ToC inherently bad, I like it, but I can see how someone might dislike it.
That and the combat system kinda sucks. CoC's combat isn't amazing either, but Trail's is worse.

>>97897052
I like that the system is incredibly simple and gets out of the way, general point spends at tension to rolls while also giving players a sure fire way to pass certain things, but not without risk. It's also just really well written. Ken Hite is a probably the best Cthulhu/historical rpg author writing right now, and his alternative takes on mythos entities and general advice on building and running mysteries are great, and worth reading even if you don't want to use the system.

Also, if you're the same anon, you should check out the Golden Dawn Sourcebook that pagan publishing put out. There is a PDF around somewhere. It has some Golden Dawn inspired magical systems and is about using the magical organization as a campaign frame.

>>97897071
Imo the fact that the combat system is incredibly simple is a feature, not a bug. The game is about solving mysteries, not getting into fights, so if fights do happen they should be quick to resolve.

>>97897086
Eh, CoC's combat is just better imo, it's also extremely quick and deadly but has a lot more variety.

>>97897082
NTA but
>his alternative takes on mythos entities
QRD, or maybe an example or two? I'm curious.

>>97897071
>how it gameifies itself through the point spends as a sort of narrative currency, which is a stark contrast to CoC where skill is a constant expression of likelyhood of success.
That's the impression I had too.
>he combat system kinda sucks. CoC's combat isn't amazing either, but Trail's is worse.
Yeah, I do remember the combat system being an afterthought.
>>97897082
>I like that the system is incredibly simple and gets out of the way, general point spends at tension to rolls while also giving players a sure fire way to pass certain things, but not without risk.
I can see why you like it, but it's too simple and direct for me.
>you should check out the Golden Dawn Sourcebook that pagan publishing put out. There is a PDF around somewhere. It has some Golden Dawn inspired magical systems and is about using the magical organization as a campaign frame.
I'll check it out for sure!
>>97897086
>the fact that the combat system is incredibly simple is a feature, not a bug. The game is about solving mysteries, not getting into fights, so if fights do happen they should be quick to resolve.
I disagree 100%. I prefer CoC and DG for fighting, they feel more pulpy and realistic.

>>97895966
Wait, what’s their vampire game? Not super familiar with the people behind ToC.

>>97897071
>how it gameifies itself through the point spends as a sort of narrative currency, which is a stark contrast to CoC where skill is a constant expression of likelyhood of success.
I think this is a really interesting divide where certain people are just never gonna like Gumshoe. For me, it makes much more sense that your competent character will always be competent. In CoC, you have a situation where, 15 percent of the time, a profession history professor will just fail to get the relevant data. And, while I'm sure it always ends up being statistically normal over a long period of time, everyone has had a session where it seems like you just cannot roll lower than 75 to save your life. I like that, if I spend XP to have 8+ in a general skill, I'm guaranteeing at least two (and really, more like 4) sure thing skill checks. I get part of this is framing and running the game, and the GM should only be making you roll for things that truly matter, but it seems like this is more the exception than the rule at a lot of tables. I also think it's interesting that most of the percentile investigative horror systems essentially give the keeper the advice to run it like Gumshoe now anyway, where you get the relevant data no matter what, and your roll instead determines how long it takes or how much dust you kick up finding it.

Not saying either one is better than the other. I'm playing a CoC game right now and enjoying the hell out of it. But I think the mechanical differences and the critiques people have of them highlight some interesting assumptions we have about what """good""" game design looks like.

>>97897039
>the only way to fail the investigation is the players misinterpreting clues...

Anon, it does seem like you didn't really play any investigative games.
Trust us: some times the players are not gonna fill in the blanks between failures in getting clues. And that is not gonna resolve itself.

We can debate if gumshoe is like the solution, a solution or not; but this is a problem that needs a solution. Full stop.

>>97897779

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night%27s_Black_Agents_(role-playing_game)

>>97899548

Interestingly, I think I prefer gumshoe "narratively" because it gives each player a soft "timespot" currency, affer it being cathered to investigation.
My hate for Chaosium is 95% fluff-wise tough, not the system (which I really don't like, but it doesn't... sadden me like Chaosium adventures and some settings tend to do).

>>97899548
I mean, there's luck in CoC, and in a situation where you have 60 or so in a skill and there's no outside complications, you shouldn't even have to roll really.
Also i do agree with the general "how to run an investigation" Gumshoe advice, with a couiple caveats

>>97899548
This seems to be an issue not so much of CoC, but people running CoC wrong. As you mentioned, the rulebook says not to place plot important clues behind skill checks.
However, I think failure can be interesting, and I suppose that’s my issue with Gumshoe. Sure, I’m not going to deny that clue to you if you fail the check. But I might have it result in you getting the attention of someone you’d rather avoid, or get conflicting information alongside the true details.
One of the most interesting things to come out of my last CoC session came about because a player failed a pushed roll. A bad dice roll helps drive the narrative as much as a successful one.
Plus, as >>97900415 says, there’s always Luck.

>>97900806
>But I might have it result in you getting the attention of someone you’d rather avoid, or get conflicting information alongside the true details.

TOC has antagonists' reactions scenes, depending on the character's actions.