Starfinder looks fun

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>>97886070
Post Paizo goblins

1e
without spells, how do you make a flying creature fall to the ground? and I mean actually flying where a net doesn't reach, something like 60ft away pelting arrows/magic bolts at you

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How do we feel about Pathfinder 2e's hyper-campaign-specific archetypes like the Pure Legion Enforcer?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=377

The Pure Legion Enforcer archetype has two main uses cases. One, you really, really want to make the most of Treat Wounds and Battle Medicine. Two, the campaign is, whatsoever, stuffed to the brim with divine spellcasters (e.g. a significant number of fiends and undead), and you really want to stick it to them.

The first of these two use cases is not particularly campaign-specific. Take Pure Legion Enforcer Dedication, pick up the Medicine skill feats, maybe into Medic Dedication afterwards.

The second, on the other hand, takes a very specific type of campaign to pay off. Sure, a successful use of No Gods, Only Mortals! feels great when it works... but unless the majority of encounters are against divine spellcasters, it is just warming the metaphorical bench as a 10th-level class feat. The same goes for Repelling Enforcer at 18th.

What do you think of this type of archetype design?

Also, the 20th-level capstone class feat, Mortal Possibility, is shamefully underwhelming.
>You made yourself into a paragon of mortality and prove that deities aren't needed to achieve greatness. Choose a skill you have master proficiency in. You become legendary in that skill. In addition, you gain a skill feat of your choice for that skill. The first time each day that you succeed at a skill check with that skill, you gain a +3 status bonus to your next skill check of any skill within the next hour.

This would be good as a maybe 16th-level class feat. 20th, though? No.

>>97886223
Tanglefoot arrows.

>>97886223
Tanglefoot Bags and ordinary throwing nets immediately spring to mind.

Or if you're really desperate to do it at extreme ranges then use Tangleshot Arrows and just keep pelting it until it fails a Reflex eventually.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrows-common/ammunition-bow-arrow-tanglefoot/

Potentially brow beat your GM into allowing the save DC to be incremented with repeated hits from the arrows (like injury poisons for example) continuing to apply more glue to the target.

Or even convince your GM that flying creatures who are blinded might try to land or accidentally descend, and use Smoke Arrows:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrows-common/ammunition-bow-arrows-smokescreen/

Or use various kinds of called shots (Ultimate Combat variant / optional rule subsystem) to injure the victim in a way that would force it to descend:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/called-shots/

>>97886223
>>97886310
Also, dealing any damage to a flying creature forces a fly check, and knocking them prone/reducing speed to 0 in any way.

>>97886257
>Let's gate existing skill feats behind a shit dedication
Also the resistance and thorns feats should be gained earlier.

>>97886327
I'm not sure there are any RAW ways to inflict Prone from 60 feet away without spells... except for Ranged Trip?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/ranged-trip-combat-targeting/

There are probably a few obscure magical items that create gusts of wind or something like that, but the save DC will probably be as low as a tangle foot bag.

>>97886327
>and knocking them prone/reducing speed to 0 in any way
like how?

>>97886405
I presume you mean Godless and Mortal Healing
They're not gated, if they were, they would have had archetype trait and dedication as prerequisite. They don't, so you can just take them as is.
I think they're included in the archetype so they count as two feats to get you out of it. Honestly neat idea, they should do that more

>>97886257
At least the feats do something and that something is actually tied to the flavour.
Which is more than I expect from Paizo.

Necromancer with witch archetype for familiar focus, cackle and eventually ceremonial knife. Good idea? Bad idea? Idea I should wait until necromancer is released fully to try?

2e
Question that came up during my last session of TotT. So we were fighting an Oathsworn and it hit me but we have a redemption champion and they were able use their champion reaction to block all of the damage. We ruled that I would still take the persistent bleed damage. Is that the correct ruling or should me not taking any damage from the attack also negate the persistent bleed?

>>97886541
see
>>97886414

>>97887003
Depends on the ability, but I would rule that no instant damage taken = no persistent damage.

>nobody invests on climbing and swimming but me
>always struggling to climb what gm puts in front of me
>the moment I become good at it he just makes a 10 hour flight token for like 200 gp a pop (nothing money) so all my ranks and feat mean nothing
Hate my gm and this game sometimes

>>97887651
Reminds me I was playing a large character and found myself having to Squeeze through every environment we encountered. I got the Contortionist feat to Squeeze at full speed, and have literally never had to Squeeze again. I mean, I guess the feat solved the problem either way. I'm tempted to retrain out of it to see if squeezing comes back.

>>97886852
Definitely wait until Necro is out before trying this unless of course your GM is chill enough to either let you keep using the playtest rules (if you think theyre better) or id you think the campaign will end before necro is fully released.

With that said, I think it should work fine even with playtest rules. Just make sure to pick a non occult patron to expand your spell list through scrolls and such.

>>97887003
Unfortunately there arent any rules for that kind of situation except for injury poisons, where if the attack fails to deal damage the poison is not applied. I think its fair to rule if an attack deals no damage then riders should not apply but its something your group will have to rule on one way or another.

https://2e.aonsrd.com/feats/1764-electromagnetic-hover

Am I missing something or this feat does fucking nothing? Hover already lets you ignore difficult or hazardous terrain, why the fuck would you pick this other that as feat tax for Fly at level 9?

>>97888734
There's a certain amount of utility in being able to avoid ground-based stuff without needing to use a Fly action every round, but that's a pretty situational benefit, and once you get the level 9 version it basically replaces this in 90% of situations you care about. I'd call it mostly a feat tax unless I'm missing something too.

I kind of get the same vibe I do with the PF2e Hungerseed Oni Form feats. You get a super wimpy version at level 1 that only really serves a roleplay purpose in letting you transform into your Oni shape out of combat, then you get the "real" version of the feat at 9.

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>>97888815
>unless I'm missing something too.
Yes, Urogs already have a natural hover speed, this feat does nothing for them, forget to say that

2e. So, for a dual-class game I'm building a Magus/Wizard, and decided to give Runelord a try with the free archetype. I want to do Laughing Shadow magus for fluff reasons, but hit a bit of a stumbling block: namely, pretty much none of the Runelord weapon options are both finesse and one-handed, which is what Laughing Shadow is kinda built around.

Do I...
...bite the bullet and spent a racial feat on Unconventional Weaponry so I can use the Filcher's Fork, even though it's got d4 damage and requires hanging out with halflings?
...bite the bullet and just use a 2-handed weapon like the Dancer's Spear, even though that means foregoing Distracting Spellstrike and +2 damage from Cascade? This *would* give me reach, too.
...bite the bullet and use a non-finesse spear? It would mean rejiggering my build quite a bit, focusing on medium armor over light, but I'm not as attached to being a DEX build as I am to Laughing Shadow, even if high-STR low-DEX doesn't make as much thematic sense for it.

>>97888843
Oh wow. Yeah as far as I can tell that feat's just a replication of the Hover trait. I'm baffled too.

>>97886257
I dunno, if you use free archetype ability that makes three skills at legendary instead of only two, a free skill feat for the skill, and a free +3 bonus usable for an hour later. That's a potent ability

But what do I know, I only run games for people.

>>97888849
Magus can theoretically get around a lot of the problems with Filcher's Fork because spellstrikes give the spell attack damage, so the d4 of the weapon won't be as awful as it would be on some other builds.

>>97888849
Filcher's fork is the way to go, because the bonus damage from Arcane Cascade helps the1d4.

>>97888849
As the other anons said, filcher's fork is the play. Not just for the Cascade damage, but also Backstabber gives you +1 damage vs off-guard, which you'll face a lot of with Distracting Spellstrike. That more than makes up for the lower damage die. Not only that, it's even a thrown weapon, so if you tossed some big 2-action wizard spell, you can use your third action to throw it for decent supplementary damage. All that's more than worth a racial feat.

That said, I do sympathize at not wanting your epic runelord to use a halfling weapon. Maybe ask your GM to refluff it as an ancient Thassilonian javelin-wand or something.

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>>97888887
>if you use free archetype

It would generally be stronger to use free archetype to pick up a high-value 10th-level class feat from somewhere, like the fighter's Agile Grace or Tactical Reflexes.

Planning to run the Spore War adventure for my group. Would it be too chudly to race swap queen telandia's husband/fiance? I just dont care for it

>>97889408
Its your game, do whatever you want. In my Golarion shes married to a chad elf who was part of the group that completed the Second Darkness AP.

>>97889445
i mean yeah, "beautiful elf queen who is interested in opening up to the outside world and is looking for a husband" is pretty much tailor-made to be part of a high level PC's postgame happily-ever-after. Of course, modern Paizo is too pozzed to allow such a thing, so they made her marry some random black guy.

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Got in like right as the last thread was about to expire, so I'll ask again here.

Looking for class ideas (1e) to make a character with some sort of flexible mutation powers. Shifter seems like the natural choice, but we all know what problems come with Shifter.

I'm not dead set on animals for shifting forms, being able to warp into some sort of patchwork protean freak creature a la pic related is the idea I'm looking for.

If there are some 3pp options that would help me bring it to life, my DM is usually open to those. I've seen the Legendary Shifter and the Protean Mutant archetype seems kind of right, anyone have any experience the Legendary Shifter?

1e
How this part works? from 10th rank signature skill on Acrobatics:
With a successful DC 20 Acrobatics check, you treat an unintentional fall as 10 feet shorter plus 10 feet for every 10 by which you exceed the DC, and treat an intentional fall as 10 feet shorter for every 10 by which you exceed the DC.

Normally is:
A DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage

>>97890864
Make check, reduce fall damage based how well you did in the check.

Not that complex.

Pf2e threads should be in non-traditional games

>>97890955
My question is why the feat asks for higher DC when with normal rules on a lower DC you do the same?
DC15 you reduce the first 10ft
With the feat and 10 ranks on a DC20 you also reduce the first 10ft

Seems weird

>>97890973
Sorry, on a dc30 if you were jumping (an intentional action), so is even worse than I thought? over dc15

>>97890973
You can stack both effects by separate checks.

>>97890973
I think theres some confusion here.

You can normally only try the DC 15 check to reduce damage if you intentionally jump, there is no Acrobatics check to reduce damage from an unintentional fall. So the Skill Unlock is letting you reduce something you normally can't.

As for intentional falls, the DC 15 check doesnt scale while this does, but you can still try the DC 15 check if you dont feel youre going to benefit from the unlock.

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>>97886070
I'm usually stuck as the tank/support and/or face of the group (Pathfinder 2e in this case). I don't mind it, just most groups I play with don't take initiative as often to move the game along or can drag out rp a bit too long. But when they do take initiative, I'm glad to be able to take a back seat on talking to npcs and occasionally chime in with important details since I usually take abridged notes. I would like to try out more spellcasters since when I picked up pf2e about a year or so ago after the shitshow DnD 2024 turned out to be, I was very hesitant to give them a try over the martials, but after seeing other players showcase what they can do, they peaked my interested. Same deal with the sorta outlier classes like Investigator or Kineticist (looking forward to when the revised version gets released with Necromancer later this year)

PF2e. My players have figured out that a 4 Fighter party using Strike every action actually solves most encounters. Now they're telling me they all want to reroll to Fighters and I'm afraid they'll just bully all my encounters.
How can I stop this?

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>97891718
Throw something at them with high AC or resistance to physical damage. Worked for me when I threw a grick at my lower level party and their barbarian couldn't one or two shot it like a lot of the things in the dungeon. Also doesn't hurt to sprinkle on an extra 10 or so hp to creatures so they don't feel like wet toilet paper being run through by a chainsaw of martials and something that can either reactive strike them back or has some sort of regeneration that they can't solve just by hitting it really hard like a troll without that silver bullet from fire/electric damage.

>>97891268
My recommendation would be Witch or Animist. They are the best full casters imo and both provide plenty of unique and powerful options. For something a little less overwhelming, Sorcerer would be fine too.

>>97891718
Assuming this isn't bait, just toss in a dude that can inflict Confusion or Control against them. Bravery doesn't work on non-Fear Will saves and what goes around comes around.
Or just stomp your GM foot and say no class stacking.

>>97891897
Will that actually work? I think Confusion is actually worse for casters. Fighters can just arrange themselves such that their only valid target is the enemy, and then they're doing what they want to do anyway.

>>97891952
This works less when there's 4 of them all competing for space and safety range. Unless they are all ranged (which would still make them all valid targets to each other), the only real safe option in such a scenario is to fight a foe one at a time, which negates much of what makes Fighter so omnipresent in every encounter. Sure, you don't need Abomination Vaults' level of claustrophobia, but many monsters can easily outrange, outstack, or penalize your scenario with proper room space. Just don't give them a literal white room and you should have enough counterplay to at least give them a challenge, if not cramp on their obvious anti-GM fuckery with a Control spell.

Command, Laughing Fit, Slow, Lose the Path, Wall of Stone, and Synesthesia are all valid options too.

>>97891952
How would fighters (or just martials) arrange themselves though? Confused states target selection is completely random and the GM can just make you Stride to get into attack range or swap to a ranged weapon to shoot someone.

>>97891989
>>97892001
Fair enough. So the enemy needs to be able inflict Confused, but it also needs to be tough enough to survive what will probably be at least couple Fatal crits on their first turn. The players are level 6 so their hypothetical fighters will actually have pretty good Will saves. So it also needs DCs high enough to overcome that.
Is there anything that would work for this or will I need custom monsters?

>>97892052
You don't need just *one* enemy. A good combination of mooks and spellcasters can easily work to provide challenge. Hell, an ooze, a ghost, or other crit immune enemies is enough to make them reconsider their 4 Fighter Fiesta plan while a spellcaster hits the heart of the party.

It is easy for /pgg/ and associates to get all caught up in the white-room issues of 2e. I think, as a GM, it is good to learn how to break that mindset in even the most munchkin-y of people if you want to remind everyone that it isn't about winning as it is having fun together. But if you don't think your encounter building/AoN-troving skills are up to snuff, then the best solution is to simply ask if they doing this to have fun or to just say "god I wish I was playing another game"?

>>97890132
Not sure about 3pp, but shifter could still work. Fey Shifter allows you to transform into a large variety of gross creatures, grow wings on them with Fey Aspect, and add another mouth with Mutated Shape (the feat). With some multiclassing you could also add claws, a bite, or a serpentine tail as class features can be added to polymorph effects.

I think you can get out most of what you need with just 6 levels of Fey Shifter if you take Shaping Focus. I'd also consider Startling Shapechanger with the Intimidate skill unlock to build into the theme. You transform into a hideous abomination and the enemies who witness it lose their nerve and runs away screaming.

2e

Where the fuck can I see the rules for Automatic Rune Progression? I don't want to make an account on foundry just too see what the fucking variant rule do

1e
Looking for cheap (9000 or below) magic items that grant stats that don't use head or belt slot and that grant resistances that don't use cape slot

>>97893773
Ioun Stones
Otherwise you will need to either craft custom items, or use questionable imports from dnd3.5

>>97893849
I meant stuff like that snake skin shirt that gives you +2 dex and +2AC as a shirt leaving belt slot free.

>>97893261
It's just ABP minus skill bonuses. Hints in the name: it's just fundamental +1 and basic striking runes.

>>97893998
No, it isn't. ABP removes all item bonuses, including alchemist items, kineticist shit, etc, while ARP leave all that shit in, supposedly. I want to check the exact wording and the table that shows when you get things.

>>97893986
Resistance to saves is valuable because there are no spells to replace them (other than protection from evil). But there are level 2 spells that give +4 enhancement to any ability score and barkskin for natural armor. Shield of faith is a level 1 spell slot. At a given character level, you cannot beat the bonus these spells provide with your WBL if you equipped an item with those bonuses. It's only very late game that you can afford better.
So buying equipment to give you enhancement to ability scores, natural armor or deflection are literally just wasted money. Noobs see the bonus and thing they have to have it. Veterans know better. It's vastly, vastly better for your character to buy equipment that helps to address a weakness or expand their toolkit in some way. Static bonuses to your numbers just do not fucking matter until you're past level 12 and only about 8% of all groups ever make it that high.

If you're running into an issue where you are realizing that you shouldn't have dumped your con or something like that, the correct solution is to not fucking dump stats like that in the future. If you're rolling for your stats, then your GM is supposed to be taking that into account... by not taking it into account. If you're rolling for your stats the entire point is that there's a risk of rolling bad stats so you have to deal with that on your end. If the GM accommodates whatever you have, then there's no risk so there's no point in keeping track of stats in the first place.

>>97894246
I'm asking for items that grant the usual big6 that go into another slots exactly for that, to have the good slots free for stuff that rather give us immunities or similar. And because there's a 9k cap on what we can buy we basically have 150k just laying there unused

>>97894246
Mate, I'm not gonna spend four lv 2 spell slots in a day on Bull's Strength just because your bum ass fighter is too cheap to buy a belt.

>>97894311
Yes, there are ioun stones for that. 8k for a +2 in each stat.

>>97892212
yeah, you should ensure that everyone has fun, for example by designing absurd encounters specifically to punish their party composition. you fucking retard.

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>>97892052
Fighters have below average saves compared to most other classes so throw some spellcasters at them. This will be their face when you also throw a 10ft up flying enemy at them. I actually cant imagine my abom vaults party making their way through the dungeon without a cleric or wizard.

1e A question for DMs, what would you say if one of your players asked to play at least two kobolds for a campaign?
Like say two at minimum, three if you try to be greedy with Leadership.
Aside from loot problems, what kind of concessions would you ask for a green card?

>>97893773
>>97893986
If you want to try it, ask about magical tattoos.

>>97895771
>Aside from loot problems, what kind of concessions would you ask for a green card?
Shared action economy between characters, and maybe shared HP pool.
Also if they want to take leadership, you should remind them that the cohort is created and controlled by the GM, not by them.

So I'm a newer GM (mainly just ran a bit of Delta Green and little Lancer) and I was looking at picking up Pathfinder 2e on Foundry and running it for a bit to give out forever GM a bit of a break. Is there anything to recommend me, like a good starter adventure or maybe just some tips? I've never really interacted with PF2e, only a bit of 1e and even then that game fell apart before that group could really start.

>>97895879
As always, the Beginner's Box is a great way to begin looking into the game. There's even a new one coming, so you have the choice between two different starting locations and campaigns.
https://2e.aonprd.com/
You can also look into the SRD itself to see what you like about the system.

>>97895876
How much of a handicap would it be playing, quote, 'a fucking kobold', unquote, by itself?
Would two really offset that?
He said he wants to play a Swarm Fighter, and they look kind of crappy.

>>97895969
>How much of a handicap would it be playing, quote, 'a fucking kobold', unquote, by itself?
Depends. Kobold ability score penalties are a big minus, but kobolts do have unique and powerful abilities that easily offset those if you know the game.

>>97895969
>How much of a handicap would it be playing, quote, 'a fucking kobold', unquote, by itself?
Depends. Ability score penalty is quite big but can be build around, whereas kobolds do have powerful unique abilities and traits such as Smoke Sight that alone are worth playing kobold regardless of penalties.
>Would two really offset that?
Extra controlled character on battlefield is single most powerful thing in the whole game, especially if it does not have innate constraints on what it can do like animal companions have.
>He said he wants to play a Swarm Fighter, and they look kind of crappy.
It is kinda mediocre, though Share Space and Strike the Underbelly can be quite powerful if you know how to use them.

>>97895289
>Fighters have below average saves compared to most other classes
Bullshit.

Gauntlet bow on drifter gunslinger? Am I being stupid or not?

2E

I want to play the typical commissar with sword (mace) and pistol, I’m going to play commander, but it seems like it isn’t built for dual-wielding, we’re going to use starfinder firearms because the 2e ones suck, but still not sure how reloading is going to work with two full hands. Also, for aesthetic, I really don’t like putting the banner on a small one-handed weapon, I’m thinking of picking Plant Banner just for looks, but then that’s a whole other problem with feats.
Any suggestions?

>>97895771
2nd edition just added "3 Kobolds in a Trench Coat" ancestry
https://2e.aonprd.com/Heritages.aspx?ID=433

So I'm thinking of doing an evil campaign in a custom setting for PF2E. I have access to the monster book 1 right now, will be getting 2 later. How should I handle do gooder parties. Scour the books for a low level of that class and use those abilities on a generic splat page. Or could I just roll characters for them to go up against in pathbuilder and use that. How OP would the second option be, I think that would be more fitting for a boss or his LT.

>>97896324
Both work. Monsters built with PC rules are, kind of definitionally, about an equivalent-level threat as a monster of that level. The main reason it's not a best practice is just because building a PC is a lot more work than playing mad-libs and filling in the stats with the creature-builder rules, especially for an enemy you might only use for a single combat. It won't break anything though, and is fun to do sometimes. A party of NPCs built this way is about the same threat level as a handful of monsters of the same level, and you can just plug them into the encounter builder rules for XP and stuff. The player-built NPCs will have lower numbers than most equivalent-level creatures will, since the creature-builder rules kind of take as a given that a particular enemy will only have a couple of unique things to do and so they tune up their math a little bit to make up for it. Player-built NPCs will have worse base stats but more gimmicks.

If you're looking to file ff the serial numbers off an existing statblock, there's also a couple hundred purpose-built NPCs in NPC Core, which you can find the full stats for on AoN: https://2e.aonprd.com/Creatures.aspx?include-sources=npc%20core&sort=level-asc&display=table&columns=creature_family+source+rarity+size+trait+level+hp+ac+fortitude+reflex+will+perception+sense+speed

>>97896378
Thanks, First time I DMed PF2e I used a player built oracle for the final boss, but they found all the weakness mcguffins and I rolled like shit all fight so it felt a little one sided. Later on on another I had a goblin, made to be the predator, hunting them and it just JOBBED one player suddenly and I was like eesh.
Thanks for the advice though, I'm still not sure if the group will want PF2e or SF2e for the next game we do, I'm just hoping it's pathfinder, because I like it more, at least more then SF1st edition.

>>97896147
It works pretty well, yeah. It saves you from needing Dual Weapon Reload. Drifter's Reload lets you Interact to reload a Capacity weapon just fine.

The only issue you could run into is after firing your 4 shots on whether your DM allows the free hand the bow is strapped to to fulfill the free hand requirement to reload your bow. If they don't you'll just need to get Dual Weapon Reload, though if your GM uses ABP you can just carry backup gauntlet bows and use Swap to effectively reload all 4 shots at once (without ABP this doesnt work due to runes).

Just remember to use a combination weapon for your melee, the pistol-rapier and the triggerbrand are both solid options.

>>97894648
Your spell slots aren't useful for anything else, but also the fighter does not need four more points of strength. He needs more skill points. PCs deal roughly five to six times as much damage as they actually need to. There just is no situation in a which a fighter needs ability scores to do his job. It's the one area of character building that fighters are uniquely situated to be able to ignore it.
So, sure, tell the fighter to fuck off. Don't buff him. Ignore everyone in the party but yourself. You're the only person who matters in the entire universe. Your petty low level spell slots are just too fucking valuable to spend on literally anything. It's more important that you just have them. Not even any spells prepared in those slots, just that you have them fresh and ready.

Let me know if any of this went over your head.

>>97894311
The general rule for "off-slot" bonuses is that they cost double.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-item-creation/
But the advice is basically that you shouldn't fight it. There's a lot of magic items in the game. Situational immunities are something you should find out about ahead of time and then equip your immunity item if you have it when you need it. But you really probably should not have it because that trivializes the challenge and the GM is fully in their rights to just prevent you knowing that there's a lot of poison coming up or something like that. The actual slots that the "big 6" go in do not actually have a lot of competition, and the "big 6" are highly overrated.

So I'm repeating the advice you got earlier. Don't worry so much about it. A cloak of resistance is the only one that's actually important. The others aren't. You don't have to minmax so hard, anon. Don't be a munchkin.
Basically, you are just not aware of what your problem is. You want to have the interesting items because they're interesting. But you want to have everything else, too. You can't just have everything anon. You have to confront what you actually want. You have to choose and prioritize. That's up to you. You have to do that. You have to make choices. That's how games work. You make choices. That's called "playing the game".

I give you permission to ignore the big 6. You are free. You can put some other item in that slot and it's perfectly ok. Now go and enjoy your life, anon.

>>97896130
Just checked, and dear god, Fighters aren't horrible but they're near ass in saves. They only get up to expert in Fort & Will, and master in Reflex.

SORCERERS get master in will, and expert in Reflex & Fort. Even if the exact saves aren't one-to-one, Fighter progression is saves is equivalent to a damn spellcaster.

>>97892052
Just smack e'm with save based shit. Unless they've all been stacking wis, fort, and dex like addicts looking for their next fix (and even then, multiple sources of 'make a save or kill yourself now' in one round from a bunch of casters should be pure pain) they'll be wailing for their mamas in no time.

Eh, if they're really good players, go the ambush route: have the fight take place in a large cave, have the spellcasters and other enemies positioned high up along a stone path leading upwards with the players arriving at the bottom. Have melee units down there and along the path, and ranged units up above alongside spellcasters. Dump some specialties in there like persistent damage and haunts in there too.

>>97896805
>Fighters aren't horrible but they're near ass in saves. They only get up to expert in Fort & Will, and master in Reflex.

No, bullshit, they get master Fort and crit success Fort.

>>97896890
Oh, missed it. They get the fort mastery at 9 and reflex mastery 15, missed one over the other.

So fighter's are 1 save above spellcasters. Go figure. Thank god frankly. Anything less and they'd be toast.

Original plan should still work. Swamp e'm with saves and enough failures will make it through to give them a challenge...although I would measure it out. That whole 'when you succeed you get a crit success instead' clause is in master for a reason. They start failing too much, I doubt they'll have the tools to make up for it.

But hey, they're Fighters! It's taken a good slice of a whole thread just to come up with ideas to challenge them! They'll be fine no matter what happens. +2 to attack is...yeah, I agree with the last guy. Throw some flying enemies on top of that whole circus I suggested above. Ain't like they'll even feel anything less.

So I understand that mechanically Paizo decided to make players buy ancestry feats to do things npcs can do better in 2e. But how do you justify it narratively? Like my group is currently playing through Triumph of the Tusk and it seems really weird that my orc can only use orc ferocity once a day but ever orc that we run into can do it once a turn. Shit is even worse for ancestries that have the ability to fly. It just makes zero sense from a story perspective.

>>97897202
Don't use 2e. Use 1e instead. There's just zero reason to use any version of 2e.

>>97897202
You just differently specialized to the average orc. Yeah, you can't fight like a suicidal maniac but you also aren't a suicidal maniac. You know better than to keep fighting until your body quits on you.
The kind of people that are willing to be adventurers, the type that would beat the adventure, are not the average person of that race.

>>97896693
What’s the reasoning on a combination weapon? Besides more attack options being better.

>>97897549
Nevermind, I’m blind and only just saw that they’d let me use firearm proficiency for melee.

>>97896737
>You don't have to minmax so hard, anon. Don't be a munchkin.
except that's literally the opposite of what my GM told us to do

>>97897789
Sure, Jan. Sure.

>>97897591
Yeah. Also I forgot Reloading Strike lets you ignore the free hand requirement to Reload so all my words on whether you need Dual Weapon Reload or not are kind of wasted, you don't need it and the whole thing works out of the box just fine.

>>97896718
Anon, have you actually played the RPG or did you just play the owlcat game? Your complete ignorance about resource management makes sense if you this is the case. When playing the RPG you don't have perfect knowledge of when and what you're fighting, or the ability to savescum, and you can't just replenish your spells after every fight. They are finite and valuable.

>Your spell slots aren't useful for anything else, but also the fighter does not need four more points of strength. He needs more skill points.
Sir, this is 1e. Control spells are king, utility spells allows you to skip entire encounters, and there are way better buffs to cast than +3 AC to a singular player with a min/level duration. Also, are you implying that someone casts a spell on the fighter so they get more skill points or is that just a non sequitur? Because that doesn't work. You NEED the headband.

>PCs deal roughly five to six times as much damage as they actually need to.
Cmon man.

>>97896805
Fighter has some of the best saving throw progression in the game, particularly when you're comparing to Sorceror of all things. So tired of people that DO NOT PLAY trying to give "advice" in these threads.
That said, anon was clearly doing a "clever" mockery of the game that is not clever and that is also tiresome.

>>97896933
Also just pointing out that you have walked into an obvious trap and illustrated that inundating with saving throws will not uniquely challenge an all-fighter party and in fact they're actually stronger against it
Anon said his definitely real party is 6th level. A flying enemy is not any kind of challenge to 6th level fighters just because it flies. If you've had this experience, your players are retarded or much more likely, not actually engaged with the game.

I have discovered that a skilled human mastermind rogue can be trained in every non-lore skill in the game at level 1

Is there any point to this? Unclear!

>>97899554
lol I guess you've found a really expensive way to get an upgraded version of Clever Improviser four levels early. Unfortunately there's some anti-synergy with Incredible Improvisation at 9, although that's no huge loss.

>>97896212
Funny enough, I bought him that miniature for his birthday.

>>97896097
I've been thinking it over, and I'm considering giving him the go-ahead with one or two of two or three handicaps:
>Slower xp progression.
>Reconfigure the Swarm Fighter to a d8 chassis.
>If he tries the Leadership thing, both of them have to take it for the right to assume control.
The loot thing is obvious, he won't get two/three shares of money.

Do you think any of these would be a fair restriction?