>>97910993
This thread is jeet-coded.

That's cool, man. But I want to fight stuff, that's why I'm here

>he saw someone on the board say "player skill" who wasn't referring to roll+attribute and got mad about it

>>97910993
source citation

>>97910993
This is also why Fighters are the worst class and Wizards are the best class.
The ability to fight doesn't matter. Everything is going to kill you anyway, so you want as many ways to cheat outside of combat as possible.
Anyone playing a Fighter is a low-skill player who doesn't understand how the game works.

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Gygax said OP is a huge faggot.

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>>97911328
>>97910993
People like you ruin everything.

>>97910993
Tired old pasta. Get a new one.

>>97911227
Are you the one saying that Risk is a TTRPG?

>>97910993
FOEGYG

The answer is not on your sheet because it's spread across five tables in the DMG. Which you're not allowed to read.

>>97910993
Casterfag fingers typed this post.

>>97910993
This is the issue of shifting the game to milestone or enemies-as-xp leveling systems.

>>97913369
What about challenges-as-xp?

>>97913369
Tying the whole world's economy to PC experience tables will never not be retarded. And you didn't even have proper money sinks outside of base building.

>>97910993
>if you are fighting in a game I designed around a tabletop wargame than you failed
Gary didn’t think this one through did he?

>>97911328
I dunno, man. My fighter kicked down the door to Auriel's penthouse apartment and bodied her in one turn with my alien laser gun. That was pretty rad.
I also scraped our party off the floor in more than one combat encounter; I think Human Variant Fighter Battlemaster is probably the best class. Whenever we fought a magic user I would just steal the wizard's focus/staff/lunch money and then make them eat sand.
I think you probably just don't know how to play the game.

>>97913539
>Whenever we fought
Fail state confirmed

Why are you still playing D&D?

>>97913574
I can't help it.

Yes you can.

No I can't.

>>97911397
Normally, this is just a shitpost from somebody who's a bigger faggot than the OP is, but this is not one of those times. Fuck you, OP, you tremendous homophile.

>>97913558
>I am the DMs punishment for failing to tpk the party outside of combat.
Kinda sick, actually. Evidence suggests magic users must be prone to failure, then.

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>>97910993
A compelling series of argument, however, I am here to roll dice, create moments and have a good time laughing at how great or how poorly we're doing in relation to what RNGesus has decided to give onto us.
Your entire OP can be summed up as
>Stop having fun wrong!
>Stop liking things I don't like!

>>97910993
>Remember Egg Garry Gygax's #1 rule on DND... if you're fighting then it's already a Fail State!
youre wrong, retard troll. KYS yourself

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>>97910993
Losing is fun!

>>97910993
Where did he say that, exactly? Because I was playing AD and D in the Before Times and there was always plenty of combat.

>>97910993
What the fuck crack is this noob smoking?

Bitch nigga hasn't even read the 1st ed rulebook.

>>97919973
I don't think he did. "Combat is a fail state" is an OSR maxim, but the only one that's a direct quote from the man himself is the line about keeping strict time records.

>>97910993
No. You were supposed to enter combat with an HD advantage or with surprise. Gary's personal games are full of characters picking combat first and mowing down dozens of enemies.

NUSR has literally gaslit everyone..

>>97919973
there is, as far as i can tell, no record of him ever saying that
other people have actually asked where he said that and the answer is always "we dont have a record"

but if he ever did say it, and its doubtful if he ever did, he sure as hell didnt use it the same way OSR uses it
he wouldnt dedicate a full third of the book just to combat if it was meant to be avoided as a rule, nor would he have included characters whose only job is to fight the enemy man to man if combat was meant to be rare and accidental

if anything, modules seem to indicate combat was the default and non-combat resolutions were outliers intended to reward the players for out of the box thinking
the village of hommlet, which was written by gygax himself, has most of its good loot guarded by enemies without obvious ways to dispatch them outside of combat

the brigands, for example, will deliberately attack the players if they choose to appear weak and will run away with the loot if they appear too strong
in this case, fighting is not inherently a fail state, you actually want to fight them to prevent them from running away with the money
its more like having to choose your battles, avoiding too much combat means the brigands ambush you and get a surprise round but it saves you the trouble of hunting them down later
doing a show of force allows you to avoid fighting them all at once, or avoid fighting them altogether, but doing so carries the risk that they will just run away with your loot if you dont storm their hideout before they can

meanwhile, large animals simply attack you if you enter their chamber
theres no obvious way to get them to not attack you and the environment isnt nearly described in enough detail for funny out-of-combat antics like flooding the chambers
fighting is an inevitability if you want to get the loot

>>97920279
All you need is context to know he said it. Popular fantasy in his time was just regular schlubs being forced to deal with fantastically powerful bullshit monsters they stood zero chance against without a Sword of Damocles type item they had to go on some big journey to find. People are just so desensitized and divorced from reality today they don't even have the slightest notion of how terrifying an orc or even just goblins would actually be to have to fight. They're basically cluster B escapism gooners with completely fried dopamine receptors chasing ever escalating power fantasies so of course they find it hard to believe things were ever different. That someone might actually want a believable story with some care put into suspension of disbeleif.

>>97921110
>All you need is context to know he said it.
No, all you need is proof he said it

>>97921110
No, all you need to do is read the early modules that he wrote like the Giant series to know that your stance is just revisionism.

>>97921110
in context, gary treated avoiding monsters as a failed state
you expended too many supplies and hit points to keep going, so you lose out on the loot they were guarding
being able to dispatch all the enemies with environmental hazards, poison, or otherwise out of combat was the exception, not the norm

at most, sneaking up on your enemies to get surprise or casting sleep on them for guaranteed kills is the closest we actually get to the idea of avoiding combat
but such moves are treated as extensions of combat in early DnD rather than avoiding it
and in any case, most modules just assumed you would fight encounters in them head to head and listed exceptions explicitly

>>97921158
Egg Garry Gygax said you win not by combat...

>>97926561
Again, gary gygax modules had a ton of unavoidable combat with few options to "poison the drink" so to speak
Tomb of horrors was deliberately made to have little combat because his games were full of fighting

Gary gygax was a fan of alternate solutions to fighting, he famously allowed the demilich in tomb of horrors to be killed with a magic crown
But that doesnt mean he didn't quite enjoy combat and include a lot of combat in his games

>>97931013
>gary gygax modules had a ton of unavoidable combat
[citation needed]

>>97931121
Village of hommlet was literally brought up, where theres a ton of encounters where direct combat was an inevitability
Not to mention gary gygax has explictly stated he made tomb of horrors because his players were solving all their problems by fighting in the first place

>>97910993
Your phrasing and formatting are both awful, but fundamentally you're not wrong. Most obstacles should be possible to overcome without drawing a weapon and when you do decide to fight you should only do so in circumstance that gives yourself overwhelming advantage.

>>97931130
He did no such thing. The tomb of horrors was jotted down from the memory of onlookers and editors who watched him ad lib bullshit sessions at conventions where the main goal was for him to indulge his own whimsy with strangers he had no obligations towards because he wanted to feel fawning affection for a few hours.
All other narratives about that module's creation are post-hoc confabulations with ulterior motives.

>>97931209
>>97931130
it was a tournament module you fuckin bozos

>>97932170
And it was mostly deadly because traps, right? Or were some of the monsters really cracked too?

>>97932170
it was used for conventions, but he has stated in interviews he wrote it specifically as a result of his own players thinking themselves invincible and asking for a real challenge
hence the creation of tomb of horrors, which has almost no combat but is nonetheless highly lethal
that is probably why it was used in conventions, because it is so unlike any module at the time and unlike how most people played the game

but back on point, gary gygax written modules are always filled with combat and they are treated as inevitabilities, or even the default, rather than a failed-state
combat is the normal way of solving things, stealth and diplomacy are to be encouraged with avoiding combat as a reward, but the modules were designed around combat being the partys first choice

>>97932205
>Or were some of the monsters really cracked too?
the number of combat encounters could be counted on one hand
only the gargoyle was a "normal" combat encounter while the demi-lich was a 50/50 chance of insta-gibbing you if you actually tried to fight it
but this is specifically why it was so deadly and it was used in conventions rather than typical play, it went against the typical norms of the time and punished you heavily for playing it like a normal module

as a point of comparison, isle of ape is a gary gygax module made specifically for normal play but shares the same "use this module when your party starts asking for a challenge" ethos as tomb of horrors

it notably has a lot more combat than tomb of horrors, with an X% to meet man-eating dinosaurs who could see through invisibility, guaranteed chance to meet man-eating monsters if you tried to fly over the trees, and you were almost 100% guaranteed to fight oonga the ape himself at one point

the module itself even warns you not to take non-combat classes like illusionists or thievs because the heat-vision of the islands monsters makes sneaking an uphill battle, if not an impossibility

theres so much combat in the isle of ape that its a genuine shock that the final battle against the demons-in-disguise at the end can even be won without fighting
that is to say, if you ask help from a higher power at any time, angels will show up and kill all the demons for you
this, and possibly the cannibal tribe at the start. are the only times you are really given a way to avoid an outright fight

>>97932205
Some of the monsters were strong, but save-or-die traps are always a shit.
>>97932213
>he wrote it specifically as a result of his own players thinking themselves invincible and asking for a real challenge
yes, it wasnt some "grrr these darn players!" kneejerk reaction, it was him trying to give his skilled players as much of a challenge as possible, a party-wide stress test.
>gary gygax written modules are always filled with combat
yet not ToH!

>>97921138
You can win the entire Giants series without a single attack roll if you're creative.