>Stand-in keeps warning that she is powerful and that she might be useful to us later.
>Dwarf1 & Dwarf3 step inside the hut
>Steps on runed floors which was something the bard saw with his perception roll, but still didn't warn them because he thought they'll be fine
>all 3 dwarves failed their saves and are trapped in place
>Witch gives them final warning to get out or become snails for her stew
>Elf frees 1 dwarf. Orc stays outside gathering mushrooms, said freed dwarf tries to throw spear at witch, mentions action-surge for some reason despite the failed roll and using a turn to get out of the bind.
>fuckit.png
>witch turns him and another dwarf to a snail after another constitution saving throw failure and then disappears with the rest of her equipment, leaving an unmarked purple bottle behind. About a bit bigger than a test-tube small Erlenmeyer-flask.
>"[DM] the difficulty of this campaign is unfair. How are you supposed to fight a boss that will one-shot you instantly regardless of rolls?"
>"Yeah [DM], what the fuck? This isn't fun."

They never figured out that the purple bottle is supposed to reverse the snail transformation by pouring it over the snail. but instead the orc said he's willing to drink it to check if it's poison.
Half-Orc doesn't feel any different. I was close to saying that because he's not a snail, it gives him some internal damage and he needed to drink one of the many potions in their inventory.
The bottle is half empty and that's where we left off. I am tempted to say either "It has enough potency to reverse one of you back to your dwarven form." or "Half is not potent enough unless you drown them in it. Both of you make new characters."
What did I do wrong? Or is it just murderhobos being murderhobos?
(2/2)

>>97912030
>>97912033
It's hard to say what went wrong without hearing the players' perspective on this, and obviously sitting down with your players and asking them just what the fuck were they thinking should be your next course of action. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong, but it sounds like maybe your players were expeting a more linear experience where they're, you know, supposed to go to places they encounter as they encounter them. Were this players enw to RPGs, maybe ones with more experience with vidya? In a situation like that, Í might just broken immersion, talked to the players OOC and asked just what were they hoping to achieve with all that.

>>97912030
The heroes went in to fight the evil snailing witch. Thats what they thought. Imagine it from their perspective:
>evil witch makes people snails and eats them
>We have to defeat said witch as we are heroes
>GM guides us to witch place, and the poor villager is terrified of her.
>Let us kill her (as retardedly as possible, we are dnd players after all)
Are they dumb as bricks? Yes.
Is this their first time facing an enemy they cant stomp? Probably.
Are they murder-hobos? Adventurers are by nature.
Did you do wrong? No but also yes.

There was clearly a misunderstanding, after which you should have switched your plan around. However, you are also a player in your game, so your party should also try to understand.

Its no-ones fault, go to next session and make the witch make them do a task for her so that she makes them unsnailed

>>97912057
Their overarching goal was to kill the lord of the dead/lich, who has engineered a plague to corrupt and kill the town. Straight up warcraft 3 inspired. The band wanted weapons and gear to go straight to the lich. The mayor said he'd reward them over time by doing quests that actually had an impact. They helped clear a guard tower of plague rats and cultists and got benefits from it. The said the throne wanted to try curing the plague and sent an experienced apothecary (stand-in) go to the forest with them to find mushrooms and other herbs of life. In the forest, besides the witch who will be relevant later on as either a deuteragonist or secondary antagonist depending on the decisions they make in that forest.

The real combat was an undead assassin squad trying to kill the apothecary, but now I have to bring it down because their 2 dwarves are snails.

But fair point, I should have probably asked if they're used to linear or vidya.
>>97912057
>>97912072

>>97912033
OK, for a start - don't penalise any attempts to discover what the potion does. Give them skill/attribute rolls, and on success they find out and fail they think "Hmm, that's probably not right." Don't let them use up their only dose of the potion.
Making them guess exactly what you thought up for the potion and using it up if they guess wrong is not a good puzzle.

Past that, maybe have a chat with them about what kind of game this is. Do you do "boss monsters" or should threats be evaluated more like real life (i.e. some things you should avoid or flee from). How will the PCs be able to assess peril? They need a good honest way to do it, otherwise they can't fight what needs to be fought or flee what needs to be fled.

It sounds like your fault. You map out the world, so why did you put the mushrooms directly outside of the witch-who-is-not-important-till-later's hut?

>>97912030
>>97912033
Did you try actually asking them rather than us? "Why did you think you were strong enough?"

>>97912033
>>They never figured out that the purple bottle is supposed to reverse the snail transformation by pouring it over the snail
Was there any way to figure that out beyond reading your mind?

>>97912088
>>97912165
>Half-Orc doesn't feel any different.
I should have been specific and said BECAUSE he's not a snail, he doesn't feel any different. That one I admit is my fault.
Honestly the witch is a "boss" for their level, but they fought off cultists and rats just fine. Yesterday, when being the stand-in I said:
"It's best not to disturb or cross her. Although she has not attacked us directly, nor ransom our safety, be it best for us not to cross her. I have no need to be a shelled dish for her like the many that disturbed her."

also before the witch encounter.
D2: Why didn't his majesty get rid of her then?
SI: We're here for ingredients. Let's keep her in a good mood.
D1: If she's kept in that hut, and [Tax-collector who was key when the plot started] was turned to a snail, I want what she has for myself.
SI: Please don't, I need all of you and [HO]'s help in gathering the ingredients and protection.

>>97912151
They sure as hell didn't want to attack the guards despite them saying don't cause trouble for the apothecary.

>>97912163
They gave 2 complaints:
1. Why did I instigate a TPK without warning?
2. Why did I put a boss they cannot kill (They then started talking about the warden in minecraft for some reason)

The original plan was that depending if they bring the bbeg's also evil daughter to the witch, she'd give them a special spell or gear each, since it was a oneshot. None of them are evil but 1 is chaotic neutral when they told me their campaign characters, so I prepared the other option to bring her to the mayor/clergy for town rep, blessings and good gear to prepare for fighting the bbeg.

I know this doesn't detract from the overall point but Bards are absolutely casters in 5e OP.

>>97912433
>They gave 2 complaints:
That's not what I asked. Did you ask them questions yourself, or sit there mutely like a retard? Did you actually try to learn from them why their expectations did not match yours? Because it sounds like you're annoyed that they didn't read your mind and now you've come here to ask us to read theirs for you.

>>97912489
Tell that to him. Unfortunately he didn't use it that much, correctly. I can try to nudge him to be more of an offensive character instead of support who only sticks to bonus/free action.
Maybe nudge him to use/learn dissonant whispers instead of just mockery or inspiration. As I type this I remembered he had fucking dispell magic homebrewed in to work when he saw the runes. Why the fuck didn't he do that?

>>97912496
I did ask ooc "[D1], you know you don't need to attack the witch. [HE] freed you and you can go.[SI] needs you back."

I already did write that my mistake was not asking them beforehand how experienced they were in this ttrpgs in general. They were familiar with WHF/AoS since they told me before the campaign that they liked the idea I pitched in where you fight rats and cultists.

As for "reading my mind" thing there's definitely a miscommunication there in my part. Things were a lot smoother-ish in previous sessions.

I'll take the advice though for the next session that the HO gets hints that the potion can be used to reverse the snail transformation. It's a shame none of them are druids who can wildshape.
Nor to a Haung, but I just want to prevent something dumb like this from happening again.

>>97912554
No, what you need to ask is "guys, what were you expecting to haopen exsctly' or better yet, before they start the dangerous encounter "how do you expect this will go?". People have expectations on their heads and get baffled when they aren't meet.

>>97912554
>I did ask
And how did they respond? The point isn't that you need to tell them how to play properly, but you need to understand how and why their expectations fail to match yours.
>I'll take the advice though for the next session that the HO gets hints
Never hint unless you're prepared for them to be missed or ignored. What happens if the orc doesn't get it? Are you going to sit there giving out more clues until he does? Make them play snails until it clicks? Have them make new characters, then wonder what to do once they do work it out?

>>97912030
Bad DM, try hard next time. Also things that never happened for 500, Alex. Maybe recruiting three autistic spergs who are playing dwarf stereotypes as their entire character was a bad idea.

>>97912030
You are getting a serious beating in these replies, dont take it to heart, this is a game, you cant be a perfect GM, this is all hindsight

If this thread is any indication of your capabilities at conveying information, yeah, it was your fault.

>>97912730
Lets be honest, OP came here to ask "players didn't act nor react as expected to a challenge that end up being above their heads" and everyone is telling the OP that if he wants to understand why their players act illogically the only way is to ask what their logic at that moment was.
Is a communication issue, from OP expecting that hints will be taken as clear information, to the players expecting that every challenge in front of them will result in success.

The DM controls 99% of everything, and can also control the 1% that the players can control too thanks to Rule 0, so yeah, it is the DM's fault for whatever happens in a D&D campaign.

>>97912730
>this is a game
D&D isn't.

>>97912955
Even if you don't like it, it is.

>>97912033
>>"[DM] the difficulty of this campaign is unfair. How are you supposed to fight a boss that will one-shot you instantly regardless of rolls?"
>>"Yeah [DM], what the fuck? This isn't fun."
This was your cue to ask "what made you think this was a 'boss' that you were supposed to fight?"
Plenty of players come into DnD with the idea that every enemy is someone they should fight straight up. This is your opportunity to teach them that isn't the case.

We had a new player join my group last year and in the first session we came up against some weird lizard people. When we couldn't immediately communicate with them the new players instinct was to draw his weapon and charge. The rest of us players all gave him a quick "dude, wtf?" ooc and asked if immediately charging into combat really made sense given our characters' culture, the risk of dying if combat breaks out and the complete lack of violence shown by the strange creatures so far. The new player took a moment to reevaluate his actions before getting really into trying to come up with ways to communicate with the lizardy cunts. Sometimes people just need a reminder that violence isn't always the answer. You obviously tried to do that with the NPCs reminder and that didn't cut through, hopefully rolling up new characters will though.

Don't feel the need to change the campaign to work around the players mistakes. That just cheapens things and saps future decisions of any sense of drama because they'll know you'll bail them out. Death should always be a potential consequence for acting like an idiot.

>>97913085
The challenge to guessing how the DM will fuck you over isn't a consistent rule structure, and isn't based on player skill or luck.
Not a game.

The challenge to sitting through DM script reading and retard voices isn't based on player skill or luck.
Not a game.

The challenge that the DM can either change AC or spell saves of targets whenever he wants or increases them before an encounter based on the party's attributes isn't based on player skill or luck.
Not a game.

Anons telling you to ask bluntly and directly your players have a right idea.
Even if they're being silly, a mishap like this can be avoided with proper communication.

>>97913122
Nothing on that post has anything to do with D&D and its rules or this thread in general.

>>97913153
Rule 0.

>>97913213
Rule 0 is just a statement of fact. Rules of any RPG can just simply and factually be changed. If you have written a system of your own, the same applies to it, too. If someone else was to run it, they could change whatever they like, and there's be nothing you could do about it. Explicitly spelling rule 0 out doesn't axctually change anything, it just points out to playera and GM one of the primary strengths and distinguishing characteristics of TTRPGs. More importantly, though, the point of rule 0 isn't that any and all rules should arbitrarily be changed on the fly, it's just that rules as written aren't sacred or unchangeable.

>>97913315
Stop responding to trolls.

>>97913361
I'm not convinced that guy's a troll. I've seen who I assume to be the same guy, based on both the posting style and the opinions expressed, on a few threads now, and my impression is less of trolling and more of someone with an actual chip on his shoulder about other people having fun wrong. I could be wrong and just fall for bait too easily, of course.

>>97913385
No this one is the baiter, there are 3 people that do this:
1- the baiter: he brings up "dnd bad" in completely unrelated situations
2- the rager: hates dnd's guts, any time someone complains about a dnd-esque mechanic or setting detail he is angered. I think its more than one guy.
3- the falseflagger: brings it up in the stupidest ways and you can instantly tell he is the falseflagger because he gets super defensive

I think this is the baiter

>>97913435
>3-ish dedicated trolls
DnD is truly the most popular game here.

>>97912615
I should have said it like that. I already wrote in our chat.
>>97912629
>Never hint unless you're prepared for them to be missed or ignored.
Will know that one from now on. But yeah, I will be putting more detailed clues if that doesn't work
>>97912720
Look, if 3 guys want to rp deep rock galactic, I don't judge.
>>97913113
Actually fair point. I should have asked how experienced they are with ttrpgs first. I thought they did well the last 2 months of it.

Anyway I've noted down to be ready to ask ooc when needed and ask mid-session what their logic/plan is in case they ignore the hints and do something they'll hate.
Any more tips in case they don't listen to what I advised ooc? just in case of illogical actions. I'm going with nudging the HE player to be more than bare minimum off-combat

>>97913554
Make sure they understand the risk and consequences of their actions. And try to make them understand that failure is not an issue, is just another game state.

>>97913385
Not worth responding either way.

>>97913554
My tip is to stop thinking about them "playing wrong" and focus on the issue of communication, which is two-sided. If their actions seem illogical it's probably because they understand the situation differently from you, so talk to them about what's going on until you're all on the same page.

>>97913315
Violating the consistent structure of a game makes it a non-game, nogames.
Don't call it a game if it isn't a game, nogames.

>>97913597
>>97913877
yeah, took that into account. should be clearer next game.

>>97913969
That has nothing to do with what I said, anon. Rule 0 doesn't mean that rules shouldn't be consistent, it means that the GM can rule that something works in a different way from RAW. That doesn't make things inconsistent unless GM keeps constantly changing his rulings.

>>97913597
>>97913877
So after typing in our chat, I cleared it with their thoughts to the potion and with the HO player. I asked them if there was something they weren't clear on regarding the campaign loot and story. The HO player knows now that the potion doesn't work on him because he's not a snail, and after guessing a bit and being close to what it actually does, I had to break it to him directly the effects. He said onn hindsight, should have given it to the apothecary first and follow his gut.
They now assume that half the bottle only means half the potency for both snails.
But I'm wondering if it would cheapen the experience for them to give it to the apothecary for a get-out-of-jail-free-card only once in that campaign. Because the other option is meeting up with one or both dwarves this week and help make a new PC.

D1 and D3 are now deciding if they should both reroll a new character to something else or let only the other continue playing as their PC.

>>97916759
How about throwing in a small, short quest to bring the apothecary ingredients he needs to make more of the potion using the remaining half of the bottle as an example? Or if you don't want to spend too much game time in this, have the potion work on both dwarves, but have the reduced amount of it mean that it'll work gradually rather than immediately - basically, having the dwarves become some kind of dwarven snailmen to begin with, be playable but with snail-like traits, with these snail-like traits receding as the session progresses. Or, I dunno, maybe leave some permanent but fairly minor snail-traits if they split the potion, with the apithecary clearly telling them what's going to happen. Some kind of a middle ground between permanent OC loss and no consequences whatsoever seems prudent. Of course you should also take into account how the dwarf players seem to feel about all this, meaning that if they're all for rolling new characters, that's the way to go. Also good job actually talking things out with your players, OP.

>>97916842
>have the potion work on both dwarves
I was thinking this but the debuff for the session or two is to slowly recover. For the upcoming actual conflict with the undead assassin squad, they'll have a crippling debuff of a giant snail shell on their back, losing their adventurer's sack and forcing them to be permanently hunched over until they either wait for 1-3 sessions to be completely free from the effects with diminishing debuffs, or gather more ingredients with the apothecary's aid to fully make a potion.
But if they want to make a new PC, I also won't judge. But I have to make sure future encounters are relayed to clearer.
They played rpgs like vermintide or total war and whf/aos tt, so I might need to make sure it's easier to digest for them.
But for future reference, how do I integrate narrative tools like chekov's gun characters, red herrings and other plot hook elements seamlessly for the players without them derailing the story entirely and losing the plot to misunderstanding?

>>97912030
>I ran a heroic fantasy game and the players acted like fantasy heroes, how could this have happened?

>>97916759
If it helps you, the old school way to know what a potion do is testing a little bit of it. Joke on you if its poison, but you're risking that in exchange of information without a check, so knowing what the potion does by one taste is one legit way to gain that knowledge.
Now, rollin a new character or questing to go back to normal is a good compromise. Remember to tell them to be clear about their intentions from now on, like what is the end result they want to achieve.

>>97912433
>2. Why did I put a boss they cannot kill (They then started talking about the warden in minecraft for some reason)
lmao your group is retards just snail them all and get a new group

>>97912030
They played like murderhobos who expect every encounter to be balanced for their level. That’s valid in some games. It’s not valid when the DM has telegraphed for weeks “this one is stronger than you, avoid.” The “why didn’t the king just kill her” + “I want her loot” logic is peak low-intelligence dwarf RP, but it’s also peak D&D player brain. They ignored every social cue and then complained when consequences happened. That’s on them.

BUT

The hints were there but not loud enough for the audience. Multiple NPC warnings is good DMing… if the players are reading the room. These guys sound like they’re used to Vermintide/Total War/WHF where "see enemy kill enemy" is the correct play. You assumed they’d treat the witch like a real threat instead of a video-game boss flag.
Potion puzzle was opaque. "Half-empty Erlenmeyer flask" with zero context or identification rolls is basically "read the DM’s mind." Anons were right: don’t make them guess exactly or waste the only dose on a wrong guess.
You let it escalate instead of a hard OOC brake. When Dwarf 1 said “I will go inside” and Dwarf 2 said “I will burn the hut,” that was the moment to pause and ask: “Guys, your characters have been repeatedly told this is a bad idea and the NPC is terrified. What are you actually trying to achieve here?” A lot of tables do this and it prevents 90% of these blow-ups.
Minor: Half-orc drinking it with zero clarification was a fumble on your part, which you already admitted.

>>97912030
Just make it so that she cursed them with a special spell where they revert to half dwarf half snail forms after some time and a magic scroll appears telling them "hey you fucking retards the potion would've healed you also I'm not a boss you slackjawed idiots"

>>97916948
>>97916964
My computer never could run vermintide or total war but I assume there's some aos/whf rpgs out there.
I'll be more firm moving forward with OOC brakes actually. Hopefully I have a good rule of thumb and not make it seem railroady. Just for illogical actions despite NPC warnings, right? If a witch event happens again despite OOC break, I don't want to be too harsh in dealing consequences but they need to make sense. I have a feeling the bard will try to seduce the bbeg's daughter and do neither the witch's nor clergy's side, which will then completely derail the quest. On the one hand, making shit up on the fly is not a problem, but it's the consistency and fairness/fun I worry about in the game.

>>97916969
Can that work? Or does it cheapen the experience?

>>97913554
>I should have said it like that. I already wrote in our chat.
I hope you didn't literally just ask that verbatum. As is, it's really easy to read as
>you guys are fuckin stupid
and it really needs to be clear that the goal is to understand why things went the way they did, not browbeat them for thinking differently than you did.

>>97916898
>But for future reference, how do I integrate narrative tools like chekov's gun characters, red herrings and other plot hook elements seamlessly for the players without them derailing the story entirely and losing the plot to misunderstanding?
Don't.
You are not writing a novel, so don't include literary devices that don't fit what you're doing. Red herrings especially are a terrible idea because there will inevitably be something that they refuse to ever let go. Not everyone has to go full sandbox, but fundamentally the point is that players can choose what their characters do, in particular focusing on or ignoring what they want to rather than what your plot requires them to.

>>97916898
>But for future reference, how do I integrate narrative tools like chekov's gun characters, red herrings and other plot hook elements seamlessly for the players without them derailing the story entirely and losing the plot to misunderstanding?
You don't. Players look at things from a different perspective from you, they'll make different assumptions about what's important and what's not and draw different conclusions from what you expected, and that is, in my opinion, part of the beauty of running games. You're not writing a story, you're engaging with and reacting to perspectives different from your own. Embrace it, adapt, improvise. If there's something you really want your players to notice, understand and consider important, though, make sure there are multiple different things pointing to it. Taking a moment to chat after a session to figure out just what have your players been paying attention to and where they think things are headed is also recommended.

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>>97912030
>>97912033
Might've been worth it to give your players an indication of the save-or-snail ability. Never played 3.x but I know save-or-die spells/abilities/etc. were a lot more common back then, and if your players are used to RAW 5e then such an ability is completely unprecedented and they reasonably wouldn't expect it. They know she turns people into snails, but probably didn't know it was something she could do with a 1-action spell ability.

Other than that, your players are retards. I kinda think everybody screwed up here at least a little. Like other posts are saying, just talk to em and clear things up for both sides of the table.

>50 posts
>0 images
Have some breakfast.

>>97912030
The issue is you cannot expect players to be reasonable about what they can and cannot do. All they have is hear-say and comparative measures, which is a problem when they interpret 'rumors of the thing you absolutely should not fuck with' as 'rumors of the thing that they can fuck with and win to prove their worth/heroism/excellence/whatever'.

One trick I occasionally do is allowing a raw Wisdom (or system equivalent) roll to determine if they pick up on the hints that something might be above their paygrade, if they so choose to start trying to provoke it. That way they have a clearer indicator without me completely shattering suspension of disbelief by just outright telling them the current course of action will result in a non-zero number of character deaths.

...and no matter how bad a course of action sounds, some percentage of people will still try to do it. Some people take anything short of you badgering them out-of-character about how stupid a decision they're making as a challenge, regardless of whether you're referring to fistfighting a dragon or drinking a gallon of bleach.

>>97912433
I think it is mainly a communication mismatch. You should have made it crystal clear since the beginning that the campaign powerlevel is not balanced around player characters and it is up to them to find out which fights they can take and how.

>>97917204
>Can that work? Or does it cheapen the experience?
It's better than going flat out OOC

>>97917365
>>97917814
Alright, so no red herrings, and only plot hooks if they are important.
I do the chat for feedback and attention to detail, but most sessions were "Yeah, I liked it." and then talks about the king and the bbeg. I'll ask them for details and uncertainties on saturday.

>>97921344
Well, they know now.

>>97920483
>>97921406
Using a wisdom roll is actually a good idea, thanks for the tip.

>>97917204
>g the bard will try to seduce the bbeg's daughter and do neither the witch's nor clergy's side, which will then completely derail the quest.
Then change it. Remember, your job is producing problems not solutions, if they found something different to what you planned just roll with it.
The clergy and the witch will continue to do their thing, and if they appear again they will already be weary of the party, just adapt to their ideas and imagine the consequences of them.

>>97924678
I think red herrings is fine. Bad rumours exist, some are outright false and some lead to useless directions. Negadungeons (places where there is nothing to win) are a genre of their own and sprinkling them into the game world gives nice dynamism.

>>97924678
>I do the chat for feedback and attention to detail, but most sessions were "Yeah, I liked it."
Getting useful feedback is hard in general. Try asking specific questions like, "is combat taking too long?" to get the discussion started.

>>97916898
Do NOT let them reroll new PCs because that will trigger a different reaction in their smoothbrains and they'll start to play it like a roguelike where they assume their PCs are always going to die and behave even worse as a result

Do the half-snail debuff

I've seen this happen

>>97912030
>>97912033
Based dwarves shitting all over your gay little railroad by insisting on exploring the witches hut
Next time don't stop snailing them until they run away and don't leave behind some cure for the snail curse either, let them quest for it

>>97916898
Do the half-snail thing but start the encounter with the assassins trying to backstab them and bouncing off the shells

Give the assassins backstab abilities that are nullified by the shells

>>97912030
>>97912033
Nah, it's playerpigs being retarded. Too many these days have the vidya idea that every thing they are specifically told not to fight is a combat encounter combined with main character and immortality syndrome.
Ive had players yeet themselves off of walls into hostile armies before now, then whine when they take fall damage and get hacked down by numbers, and players whose idea of "diplomacy" was to antagonise and pick a fight with something far more powerful than them.
Thankfully my current lot are a lot less retarded.

>>97932082
>>97932197
>>97932292
I'm sticking to half-snail where I am putting the 2 dwarves in the lowered priority list regardless of initiative in the fight. But I do like the idea of backstabbing protection buff to compensate the nerf. Originally I was thinking they can hide inside it because they can at least fit inside for more protection and AC boost, but not being able to attack.

Originally, one of the dwarves were going to roll a new character with me but we never set up a schedule, so we're pushing saturday as planned.

Other changes/nerfs I plan include:
- Disadvantage in throwing rolls/attacks due to thin layer of slime
- Moisture bonus with some fire resistance since the forest ground keeps them moist
- Poison Resistance

But would that be too much even if it's just for 1-2 sessions? The assassin squad is after the apothecary, but I want to see how I can make them not feel left out because they don't keep up with the HO and HE. the snailed dwarves were a HB fighter and a HB barbarian. This will have them change their playstyle but I don't know how they'll pull it off. So in the meantime I gave myself freetime till friday to see how I need to change the squad. I don't want that the fight ends and the apothecary dies because they were 2 men short in stopping 2 assassins from gunning it straight to the apothecary. Maybe if they played it defensively, sure. But I already have a contingency to at least progress the plot a bit in case the assassination attempt works.

>>97912030
>No one in the group is a ... magic user of any kind
>a half-elf bard ... healer
?????

>>97932491
see >>97912554
Bard insists on not using his kit/character effectively. For example he saw the runes but didn't say anything.
I definitely made a mistake in not asking him why he didn't tell anyone at that moment I slid a note to him on what he saw. I wanted to tell him outright to use dispell first before the dwarves were about to go in, but I didn't want to tell him what to do. But definitely in that session my fault was I didn't try enough.

>>97932484
The witch has cursed your player characters into snail forms, presumably to punish them for their audacious and reckless behaviour.
Why are you kvetching yourself into turning this into some kind of elaborate sidegrading feature, and do you think this will indpire your players to act more or less retarded in the future?

>>97932174
Giving a fair warning before you go head first into an encounter that's way above your weight class is not railroading, it lets players discuss how to approach it, prepare or evade it if the so wish to. And when they get their asses kicked for ignoring warnings you get them to cry about it.
Railroading would be for the place to have an previously non-existent repulsive shield to avoid the players from facing the witch.

>>97933582
>a fair warning
>the referee has a literal stand-in character ready to tell them accurately exactly what this is and that they mustn't go there now
I can practically imagine the dungeon masters grumpy face as he has to make his dmpc keep pleading with them not to make their own decision. Sorry, the dwarves got out of the choo choo at witch hut station.
What's more, even though it was absolutely a moronic decision they're just getting a slap on the wrist for it if it can even be called that. It's because otherwise the dungeon master can't complete the story he already made up in his head.

>>97933318
Fair point, just don't want them to feel bored or left out. I'm sticking to the slow and attack disadvantages anyway. If they give the apothecary the bottle and he survives the encounter will determine if they stay half-snailed for more than 1 session.

>>97936765
They're experienced with warhammer fantas vidya like vermintide, total war and one of them has played BG3.
IDK anything about warhammer vidya like vermintide and total war until recently. After looking into it, I saw my issue. As for railroading, the plot is literally a copy of warcraft 3's undead plague with an added cult of the rat king as a secondary antagonist inspired from skaven in WHF.
The players said they liked it and they can't wait to fight them full force later on because none of them made an evil character.

The only vidya I was familiar with was bg3 and I didn't play it, but I'm pretty sure it's an actual RPG.