Thread #97919612
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I hope this isn't against the rules, I was hoping to have a serious discussion on the streamed Cyberpunk game that people considered to have gone incredibly wrong to where they blame the GM and consider him to be a creep or predator now. I believe his name is Adam Koebel. I've seen the game and what he did was insist that the character Johnny plug a wire into the back of his head and he experienced an ecstasy from it. After that session their campaign unceremoniously ended, and his players turned on him. No matter where I look it seems like people think he subjected his players to some form of fetish, but I do not understand where they're coming from. To me it seems like they must have had something against him other than that, sort of a straw that broke the camel's back situation. I've seen people who continued to play in campaigns that experienced far worse gross negligence than this. Is this a case of higher standards due to the nature of the live streamed for audience?
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>To me it seems like they must have had something against him other than that
Than that's that. You've made up your mind, no one should be interested in defending either the group or the GM, so we can just write this all off as a group of miserable losers you shouldn't waste your, or anyone else's, time thinking about.
E-celebs, E-drama, and all that other fiction is about as real as reality television, and having worked in that industry before it was largely supplanted by influencers and pod casts and what not, I promise you that you're much better off indulging in any other form of media, or better yet going outside and interacting with real people in real situations.
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>>97919612
It will probably trigger somebody. Koebel's problem was that he was a proto-SJW in a public online space with people who further along the pipeline as his fans.
It was a terrible choice in front of a terrible demo in a terrible place, kinda of like if one decided to have Twitch Cthulhu session and the KKK appeared to lynch all the catholic and brown characters while talking about those how those filthy niggers and papists are going to burn in hell.
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>>97919612
When you've built your career on open communication and safety tools, and then, on a live actual play, you do weird creep shit to a female Player's character, it doesn't really look good. And yeah "I'm going to force your character to have an orgasm, lol" is weird creep shit.
If I recall correctly, after it happened, one or more of his previous romantic partners came forward and said "yeah, he was a huge shithead to us, this isn't surprising."
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>>97919961
It was very obvious that they were uncomfortable during the session, and didn't know how to deal with it (which, in and of itself is kind of a rebuke of the safety toolsbthat Koebel championed, but that's a different topic.) Also, they were in the middle of a production, essentially work. That's how that shit happens.
>>97919965
How is "a guy that we know to be a creep privately but has social capital so we don't want to speak about it, but now the public at large has seen him do something weird and creepy so we can speak out without immediately being ignored."
Do people on here not have interpersonal relationships? Do you not get that this stuff happens? The very fact that you find it suspicious is exactly why people don't immediately come forward about shit like this.
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>>97920089
>How is "a guy that we know to be a creep privately but has social capital so we don't want to speak about it, but now the public at large has seen him do something weird and creepy so we can speak out without immediately being ignored."
NTA but it smacks of cowardice to me. If they actually had a problem with his behaviour then they ought to speak or they're complicit.
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>>97919612
The whole situation was fucking stupid, but the people who spun it as Koebel sexually assaulting a player were being hysterical retards. Koebel should have read the room better, but also if all of the players were so traumatized and shocked by a robot being hooked up to a pleasure program (a thing the player agreed to and did not question in the moment) they had plenty of time to say something, tap the X-card (or any other safety tool which they were using to my understanding), or otherwise stop and ask questions in the moment.
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>>97920276
NTA, but fuck off. If you don't have the balls to get into fights with people you're having troubles with then you're going to get walked all over and taken advantage of. This absolutely reeks of cowardice.
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>>97919612
He raped a female players character when he knew that person was a RL SA surviver.he himself had condemned the very Ideas of GMs doing that, was a face of "consent in roleplaying" and giggled as he raped a SA survivors character live on twitch.
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>>97920334
Yeah, I'm really gonna take the opinion of a fuckin' keyboard warrior on an anime diaperfur slashfic webzone on cowardice. Come back when you've drank a beer and touched a boob you absolute fucking embarrassment.
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>>97919748
>Dungeon World might have been a bigger name in the industry.
Possible. It fell off hard after Stranger Things / Critical Roll got big.
>Kobel might have grown to the fame that Mercer commands.
Never would have happened.
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>it was rape
>various kvetching
Dude was an idiot but everyone else involved was too. This is dumb shit happening to dumb people in inane circumstances.
Its also telling its various /pol/ slapfighting when none of you post the fucking video so people can see for themselves and make an assessment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUoenthEiHA
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>>97922828
It's more about recovery and mindset I think. Victim vs survivor, those terms can really get into your head. I have known two, they both used survivor as it helped them get in a mindset to deal with the trauma.
I guess it's all in if you see yourself as a victim or as someone who survived something. At the end of the day, who am I, who had never had to live though it,to disagree with what terms they need to use to overcome it.
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>>97923006
>At the end of the day, who am I, who had never had to live though it,to disagree with what terms they need to use to overcome it.
Its actually this full abandonment of responsibility and dialogue that creates social structures of power lacking accountability and recreating abuse. Its even in the kobel example you're upset about.
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>>97923052
The OP was upset the guy was held responsible for his actions. Using the term survivor is not somehow absolving a fucking rapist or creep of his actions.
The dude roleplayed out a rape on a female players character, while giggling the whole time and was held accountable for it.
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>>97923082
>fails to address the issue
>falls back to requiring everyone to become fully invested in one side with no discernment
If anyone NEEDS you to do this sort of shit, they are in fact also bad actors creating groundwork for their own abusive practices.
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>>97922999
Can't even be rape, because the player and the character both agreed to it. People exaggerated the scene to make the subsequent overreaction feel more genuine.
>it was rape!
>the player was an SA survivor!
>he brutally and maliciously abused a player on a live stream!
>everyone at the table was SO UNCOMFORTABLE (they all just sat there and barely reacted, and then said nothing)
Instead of practicing the safety shit they preach, all of the players decided amongst themselves, only after their audience and fans crawled up their collective asses, that they would all quit the show, and refuse contact with Koebel over something so heinous that the could not talk about it in specific terms or even share the clip for context. Meanwhile, said fans went around demanding everyone who worked with Koebel in any capacity should fire him and exile him for fictional "rape"
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>>97923855
That was some other guy, but by their own admission, the live-streamed game was supposed to be using safety tools and x-cards and a whole table of pearl-clutching faggots didn't once stop to say
>this is making me uncomfortable
Or anything else. Even though Koebel was being a retard and wasn't reading the room and wasn't practicing any of the things he's written in the few RPG books he's actually published (like being transparent about actions and consequences with players, and "telegraphing" things in the open), if any of the players were so disgusted and so outraged by what was happening, they chose not to say it and then chose not to behave like adults and talk it out in private.
Everyone involved is a faggot and a retard.
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>>97923878
For all we know, they did talk about it private, and Koebel was an asshole.
They finished the stream, and decided they didn't want to play with him anymore. That seems like a pretty fucking adult response to me.
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OP here, I am going to highlight why this whole thing is so weird to me. There's a scene in the first episode of the anime Cyberpunk Edgerunners, based on the tabletop RPG Cyberpunk Red. David Martinez is blindsided by a sex brain dance sent by his ripper, where three naked chicks are full on forcing sex on him. This is actual and literal rape. David's response is to "cut it out". More importantly, NO VIEWER HAS EVER CALLED OUT THIS SCENE EVER. Then we have this debacle with Adam Kobel which anon gracious shared the clip >>97922999 in which no rape actually occurs and has been greatly exaggerated by third parties in retrospect. Maybe the choice word "orgasm" was in bad taste by the GM's part, but what we're seeing is less insidious than a lot of stories of railroaded games I've seen. I really suspect that people simply wanted to career assassinate him.
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>>97924140
It's fuckin' bizarre to me how you have to make up a narrative to make this anything than more than man being a fucking creep in a public forum, and people not wanting to work with or support him because he acted like a fucking creep.
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>>97924344
Every time this topic comes around, it takes a while for anyone to post the clip and even when you put the exact context and aftermath in front of people, you still get faggots who will insist that it was worse and more repulsive than it actually was.
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>>97919797
no she wasn't. you could barely tell what happened. it was the level of an of color joke snuck into a kids movie. It was her chat that talked her into being offended.
I am not a sex positive person and a prude, and I had no clue what happened.
And lastly it was a character that did it, not the DM. Characters need to be able to take actions to inform who they are supposed to be.
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>remember that time Q made Data experience an extreme emotion of joy and laughter without his consent? He raped Data. Data was raped by Q making him feel sensations and feelings against his will
That's it. That's the whole fucking controversy. A robot character told his mechanic that he wanted to have more human experiences, so the mechanic found a program that "felt like an orgasm" for him. Instead of roleplaying it out and saying "my character didn't like that" they hyperbolized the entire thing and everyone acted like huge faggots about a game of pretend.
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>>97925450
if you watch it, it was that fucking bitch Vana. the curly blonde haired one. It's not even clear to me if the robot had a sexual experience or was upgraded and the DM being a degen described the sensation as an orgasm.
No human sexual act was simulated or described, usb type thing was inserted into a dataport on the back of a neck of a robot that needed repairs.
But the blonde bitch acts weird the entire time.
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>>97919612
Virtue Signaler cultivated a hyper critical audience and pushed the joke over the line so the leopards ate his face.
>>97925450
>>97925556
The entire situation could of been avoided if he just didn't use the word orgasim. Using the word itself made it made it seem like he was getting to it and destroyed any potential deflection he could of made.
Hell ERP and genral horny content at the table was driven out of "polite society" in regards to Tabletop in part because the 5e boom severed the cultural tie with classical pulp and because of people like Kobel pushing for it.
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>>97924708
Its sadly not bizarre to me at all how obviously you want to create a good vs evil narrative and constantly appealing to a bullshit common morality while being unable to engage in anything more complex than public shaming.
Again, everyone involved was dumb. Adam's a shit head. The fallout was encouraged by shitheads. None of them are hurt in ways that are dire or important.
You however, are an insidious snake of a man, primarily interested in convincing everyone you have a moral high ground to browbeat with. We've all seen it enough over the last decade to see through it. Go away, you're a joke.
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>>97919612
Basically, Koebel is the poster child for PC, social justice bullshit. He literally fought to remove white male creators from the hobby (while being a white male creator), championed every SJW agenda possible, was a big pusher of using the X-card, and more. The same guy ran off his partners from gaming by being an extreme lefty nut with a toxic ass personality.
THAT guy ran an actual play where a female player was playing a male PC and he had an NPC basically force her character to have a bunch of orgasms against their will which nobody at the table was cool with because it clearly crossed a line.
Given his social circle he curated by being an extreme lefty, they of course were on his ass like sharks on chum.
So, fuck em.
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>>97919612
I was expecting the mechanic character to wrap their hands around Johnny's girth and jack him off lol.
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>>97925764
The trap is that he used the word in relation to another person, even just saying orgasm in relation to yourself experiencing something is still fine if a bit intense, but the moment you use it in relation to another even on a meta level, their is no other thought of interpretation than it being a sex thing.
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>>97925871
I just rewatched it, I think what happened is that they cringed and didn't know how to react. The chat must have told them afterwards that they think it's rape. It's weird that Johnny would put their hand on the mechanic and tell them they are open to new experiences, then for the plug to be located on the back of their head, and for it to be described as a brain stimulation, to set anyone off after the session was over and in retrospect. It all sounds like drugs, not sex.
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>>97925862
You mean THIS guy was a social justice dipshit?
Who could have guessed?
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>>97925757
>Wow my character had a new experience and it made him feel strange, uncomfortable feelings
>this would probably make for great character-focused roleplay where we get to explore what an android thinks about extreme, overwhelming pleasure after not knowing how that feels at all
>...
>nah.
>let's burn this motherfucker at the stake because he said "orgasm" lmao
I've put player characters through far worse and far more traumatic situations than that and these fucking retards killed a man's career over practically nothing.
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>>97919726
if you offend them and you're concerned about the consequences.... apologize. say "woops, it wasn't my intent to make you upset. thanks for explaining to me how that hurt you, i'll do my best not to let that happen again. that must have sucked for you"
it's not hard, and it's an insane hack you can use to get all sorts of perks as a functioning adult with bare-minimum communication skills
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>>97925836
Sleeping with dogs. Catching fleas. Etc.
Same as with Zak whatshisname. That faggot cultivated the exact kind of community that chose to crucify him over a bunch of rumors some trannies made up. I even recall people talking about how mister "I play D&D with porn stars" was a fucking idiot for drinking the male feminist kool-aid. And then they fucking obliterated him over nothing.
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>>97926287
Much as I hate the guy and think he's a giant faggot, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of sexpestery. All the earlier posts in this thread insisting that he was a well-known creep are just post-hoc accusations so it sounds more reasonable for a bunch of oversensitive e-celeb retards to crucify him for saying "orgasm" on a livestream.
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>>97926260
The people who came after Zak weren't his circle of friends, it was all Internet people. Everyone he actually knows in real life has, at worst, just not said anything, but for the most part stood by him.
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>>97923850
>hunting down any employer or collaborators
This was the most insidious part of the whole thing. You'd think he pinned the dumb bitch down and raped her in real life, rather than all the players staring like retarded guppies and then (the player behind the robot in particular) not saying a fucking word in the moment.
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>>97927797
It wasn't, that doesn't matter, and they proceeded to casually banter and act like nothing happened right after the game, fully acting as if they were going to play again, none of them bringing up the "rape" retards insisted happening.
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>>97927821
>>97927826
>>97927830
>>97927836
>>97927842
Just givin'er today huh.
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>>97927815
it was, it matters, and they were uncomfortable.
people are capable of hiding discomfort, especially in a professional setting, and it is quite clear that they are uncomfortable. there is more to a social situation than what is obvious. please develop some social skills.
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>ITT: We further devalue the word rape, making it more likely that rape is going to become normalized, in order to win semantic arguments.
I for one look forward to the Incel uprising.
Not for any personal investment but because you 'people' deserve it.
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>>97922999
checked
I can't express with words the amount of disdain I feel for everyone on the screen.
From Adam Koebel himself, whose whole career I despise; to the rest of retards clutching their pearls at a literal nothingburger. These are the same fucking faggots pushing for "safety mechanics" bullshit, and yet here they decide to sit there in silence making slightly weird faces.
Fuck all of them. Also if you, person reading, consider this character was raped, fuck you too.
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>>97928042
Anon, watch the whole clip from 1:14:00 onwards.The NPC hits on the PC. The PC responds with "I'm open to new experiences". The DM explicitly says how gently the NPC is doing it, and at no point does the character or the player stop him.
Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly equal to magical realming someone.
Makes me sick to have to defend Koebel of all people.
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>>97928218
I will say, him slapping her around the face with his micropenis while screaming about how she's a whore that deserves worse was a bit much.
But the real thing that bothered me was how pink his pubes were.
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>>97928189
>RL SA survivor
This is just the female zoomer equivalent of stolen valor boomers that claim to be vietnam vets for pity drinks at sportsbars, telling you their life story as the word for word plot of the Deer Hunter because they think you're too young to have seen it.
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>>97928603
>>97928599
Come over here, I'll show you rape.
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>>97926942
Yeah the entire events was cringe, but it was indicative of how very cringe the entire campaign was. This whole debacle was just icing on the weak campaign they were running. It's the only noteworthy thing about their entire live streamed game series. It's telling that they had to go this far to drum up excitement.
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>>97927842
>rape
>when Johnny put his hand on the mechanic's shoulder
>when Johnny told the mechanic that he was open to new experiences
It's like going on a date, making out with a girl, and then the next day she claims she was raped because she talked with her friends about it and decided they do not like you.
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>>97930419
it wasn't even an orgasm. the robot got a literal short circuit from running a current through a port not designed for that. interpreting it as an orgams is weird anthropomorphization of a non anthropomorphic function.
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it's all silly and felt weird coming from a group of thirtysomethings and not teens on LiveJournal.
that said, like those ye olde times, something that goes unmentioned is that Koebel did the whole "i am quitting the internet" thing in his apology.
...except, he kept his public-facing Instagram up. he buzzed his hair and took moody, black-and-white photos where everyone could comment
>it's ok Adam we still love you!!!
and he could send hearts back.
it's his personal life, but it's telling. like you don't get to pick and choose, dude, if anything it's 100% worth taking a REAL break from the internet.
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>>97930575
>>97930583
yeah that's rape dumbass
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>>97936049
Time stamp it, I will wait. I just rewatched it and it went like this
>make a pass
>agree
>share a moment
>agree
>okay I am plugging you in now
>ready
>plugged in
>WAIT ISN'T THIS TOO FAR, THIS ISN'T MARIO PARTY IT'S ANAL SEX
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>>97919726
>>97919741
>>the ramifications in the medium
>There are none.
i couldn't run a one-shot of Death Frost Doom at UK Games Expo because Zak S. is one of the authors. it was on their banned list.
also they require some X card thing. fine, not being awkward, i just don't understand it. i view it like going to see a horror film with a 15 certificate...what happens if you just hear Alien is a good film and watch Alien for the first time?
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>>97936262
>plugged in
>WAIT ISN'T THIS TOO FAR, THIS ISN'T MARIO PARTY IT'S ANAL SEX
What's important here is that there was another 15 minutes of banter directly after that scene, with people joking and laughing about the scene, including the so-called "rape victim" interacting with her so-called "rapist." Then discussing if they get XP, and what they'll be doing next session. The android's player is way more concerned with how much XP she believes she deserves while smiling and laughing about the events of the session. She even says, and I quote directly from 1:20:40
>yeah, for multiple reasons I think - I think that he should get experience points. *For trying new things*
Followed by Koebel saying that he is open to discuss it more in their post show, and that he was using the players' own input as material for the game. Then explaining the NPC's motivation and exactly why he interpreted a character "wanting to be known differently"the way he did, as well as the NPC's intent, motivations, and underlying reasoning. All the while, all of the players are nodding along and saying how they kinda get where he's coming from.
And then they presumably did their off-stream post-show, said their goodbyes, and a couple days later, came back with the sob story about how they were all so unbelievably shook and traumatized by that scene in the moment that they just continued to talk it out and come to an understanding.
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>>97937923
Yes, no one has ever laughed and joked while feeling uncomfortable, especially not in a professional setting. Human beings are anime characters. We always say exactly what we are thinking and feeling at all times. You're very intelligent.
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>>97919726
Just like irl games, if you plan to have situations that are not boilerplate, you talk to the people first.
People have, even in this thread, correctly pointed out that your 'edgy' is really just being an asshole. that would get punched by people who aren't cowards.
>dareyouentermymagicalrealm.webp
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>>97938090
>>97938093
Your stale gimmickry is boring.
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>>97938471
Anon, the point of the x-card for use at conventions when you have randos you never met sit down for a presentation game.
It is not, nor was ever, for use at home games where you have time to talk to people about expectations.
Stop taking internet banter as fact.
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>>97938093
If you were to examine it as if it were in court, it looks more like the accuser was actually fine with it at first but after people pressured them to do so they changed their story well after the fact. They wouldn't win that case, especially with the whole thing on video. I mean common man, laughing when you're uncomfortable is actual chimp behavior, not people behavior. Are you a socially retarded millennial or what?