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>OP makes a wojak spam

>>97934650
>complicated
How complicated is it actually, when it's just addition?
How many of those "many modifiers" are more than a single digit?

It sounds more like a player skill issue than any sort of mechanical complexity.

>>97936810
That's the point. He wants to play a character that involves remembering a lot of numbers and adding situational modifiers on the fly, but he can't do mental math for shit.

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>>97934650
>what if the player is a champion fighter?
( I remember I had a player who had trouble running his champion fighter. But the guy was actually disabled , so I suppose, props to him for being able to even play. Years ago I ran a one shot in a free rpg day, I made 25 pregenerated characters each with a variety of different gameplay styles and also had a large pizza at my table " Take a seat, take a slice, pick your character and let's do a dungeon crawl"
Just that one guy and his buddy, who played a thief rogue , were the only two people who actually took a look, sat down and played with me. I do appreciate it Even if they didn't play the game all that well or know dnd5e really. After the game I took the half of the pizza that was left brought it over to a table where some guy was running his home-made system we split it and I jumped in his and we had a good time.

My favorite is not the math issue, but people insistent on not even knowing what their character is capable of because they used some AI software to auto fill their character sheet. So when the time comes to do something, it's a constant shuffle between text entries on the laptop and navigating of pages to get the right dice rollers, when just writing your shit down on paper and rolling real fucking dice would have been more efficient.

>>97936874
>he can't do mental math for shit
That doesn't make the build complicated, that just means he's shit at maths.

>>97936874
You don't need to do that if you have your sheet on hand or use automated sheets like with a VTT. In the latter case the modifiers will be automatic. In the former case it becomes a matter of simple addition.

>>97937754
I agree. I fucking hate character sheet apps and I would fucking ban them alongside digital dice rollers if I ever ran for a ñew group. But unfortunately if I do that they'll post me on /amitheasshole_dnd/ on reddit and I'll get doxxed and harassed by dozens of trannies for "gatekeeping" or some bullshit.

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>playing rules lite system where you can make custom abilities
>min-max player acts in extremely bad faith by making vague abilities
>always tries to convince the GM to let them do nearly anything with the ablity
>because the ability is so vague not even the player knows how to argue for it
>ends up doing worse than people with concrete and limited abilities while also wasting time

>>97938325
I always final-draft players' custom abilities to nail down specifics, and players have been disappointed to learn that playing music in combat is mathematically not as useful as hitting and killing the enemy with your sword

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>>97938362

>>97938325
It's very funny how I've had the opposite experience because I'm just the sort of person who balances stuff by erring on making it weak. I'm in a Perfect Draw game and my ace was so dogshit that it got canonized the archetype was dogshit in universe and the GM and another player worked with me to do a retrain of it and let me have it.

I'm getting a better feel for how to design cards at this point, I've toyed with a few different decks that I'm not using just to do learn how to properly make cards, but I still run my new card ideas by that other player and the GM (the GM calls the other player a co-gm because that player has a good sense for card balance and helps all of us make balanced cards).

There is a guy in the game who didn't do that per se, but he is playing... I think it's the rogue? The one with prep time or whatever, and the {Fumble} Staple, despite how powerful their deck seems on paper they have one of the worst Win/Loss/Draw ratios out of all of us, meanwhile I have a very high Win/Loss/Draw ratio.

Vague abilities make for less powerful abilities despite what some faggots think, the more defined your abilities the more you can justify their power by adding drawbacks or limiting the use cases, the more vague the less likely the GM is to let you do your shit.

>>97938362
I actually have a Sonic RPG I made where you can pick up an ability that lets you use musical instruments as weapons with unique attack pool calculations. I think for any system with weird abilities and especially ones that let you make your own, there needs to be some means of making everything effective within its niche.

Like, why couldn't you let them fire off cone attacks of sonic waves with a guitar or something? That's cool as fuck and the strength of these systems where you get to make your own bullshit.

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>>97938713
>Like, why couldn't you let them fire off cone attacks of sonic waves with a guitar or something?
because that would've been incredibly stupid in the context of the game and it's also not even close to what the player actually wanted

>>97938770
It was an example, the fuck did he want? And why didn't you establish the tone of the game before you let them start making their shit?

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>>97938775
no, we're not having a conversation.

>>97938325
Can you try to explain what his vague ability was?

Sometimes I feel like I do that too, admittedly for solo games, for more normative group games I am better at pinning down something due to not wanting to socially come off as being a power gamer. But I have definetly made solo characters with abilities way too vague in an attempt to make them multi-functional and actually made them hard to interpret and uninteresting instead compared to my companions that had simple but clear abilities.
For example my character
>Can put a mark on an object and imbue it with part of your soul. It deals extra damage, has an increased to-hit, can be levitated 5 feet per round, and can be sensed through
vs npc companion
>Can drink an alcoholic beverage and roll a d6: on a 1 he suffers from stupidity special rule, 2-5 gets bonus damage, 6 gets bonus damage and armor piercing.

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>>97939021
Planning to progress with the character, maybe make each of those abilities incrementally gained. Like first your mark just increases to-hit, implying just an uncanny familiarity with the object you communed with. then a level later, it does extra damage as the tool appears to be sharper, stiffer, and shinier than a normal example of that kind of tool. then the next level is when you actually get explicitly supernatural qualities to you connection by being able to sense through the mark, then lastly you get explicit and physical supernatural abilities by being able to levitate it or being able to affect its trajectory like Luke using the force to pull his lightsaber to him or Vader throwing his saber like a boomerang. And maybe last of all you can mark people to control/have a telepathic connection with them.

Anyways, I like the idea of a very localized psychic connection that cant just be used on anything you can see but requires you to first "interface" with or physically put a transceiver of sorts on the target.

>>97938315
>I fucking hate character sheet apps
I prefer paper character sheets, but I recently joined group that play Pathfinder 1e, and given the number of modifiers, I honestly consider at least making an excel sheet for my character. It's overwhelming. And that is _before_ spells.

>>97938809
So it never happened got it.

>>97934650
And that's why I wouldn't play D&D 3.5e without some electronic aids.
Having the persistent bonuses is easy, but all the circumstantial stuff can become messy.
Blessed be gsheet.

>>97934754
pepe and wojak are fun. you lost trannie

>>97939144
>electronic aids
How do you get that, by plugging into a computer with a virus?

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>>97939156
Not me.

>>97939021
>power gamer
I'm sick of it being "sOcIaLlY uNaCcEpTaBlE" to make characters that can SURVIVE COMBAT and FIGHT WELL in games ABOUT FUCKING COMBAT AND FIGHTING.
Faggots.

>>97939169
Well, I think there is a balance to be struck. You can be arguing something in good faith while still trying to be effective, but you can also be scrapping for every advantage in bad faith with word games and stuff. As a player I can kind of tell when another player is being more of the former or the latter.

Like, I can also recognize when I am arguing something because I want it more than me actually thinking its fair or warranted.

>>97939213
Establishing clear limitations in the rules (as written + houseruling where applicable, to clarify) helps avoid these word games.
It isn't a guarantee, but it helps.

>>97939169
playing with power is insufferable in 5e beacuse 5e is a badly designed game where they did not playtest the monster manual with characters using feats

people hate on lancer for its politics, rightfully, but at least that community allows for the fun of character building and treats strength either as acceptable or a design issue instead of blaming the player utilizing the rule book. I also think the mecha genre lends well to trying multiple builds in a way that fantasy does not.

>>97939146
Why are you calling other people trannies when you love reddit memes so?

>>97939280
because i am a nazi like in the hit gamesworkshop game warhammer 40k

>>97939231
>Establishing clear limitations
sometimes thats actually a problem too. especially on the gm side.
>"Erm it specifically says that a throwing axe has a 60 foot range, so I wont let you do a check to throw 62 feet."
or something like that. Legalism can sometimes be as much a problem as word games. I think there should be a middle ground of pretty solid go too rules, but open enough to have near enough approximations be applicable.

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>>97939169
THIS ISNT JUST A FUARKING GAME THIS IS REAL FUARKING LIFE AHHHH

I NEED TO ENGAGE EVERY SYSTEM WITH THE INTENT OF BREAKING IT! I LOVE BEING A BAD FAITH LOW TRUST NIGGER RAAAHHHH!!!

>>97939310
Your example is perfectly reasonable, though.
60 feet is 60 feet, not 62 feet.
You can do 57 feet, you can do 45.67_ feet, but you can't exceed 60 feet unless your character has an active status effect or a passive ability allowing him to temporarily exceed this limitation.

>>97939326
Yes, it's so much better to break a game by negotiating with a loose DM to ignore the rules.

>>97939334
Also a thing only power gamers try to do

>>97939331
bad example, first thing that came to mind, Ive had a GM that was very rules strict and didnt go for on the spot rulings and it just wasnt a good time. Didnt have much wiggle room for inventive shit.