It was way too kino.

I'd like to see a Diablo 1 clone where your off-hand can carry things like torches, lanterns, candles, etc instead of just shields.

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>>737027546
There's a pretty okay d1 clone on steam called Tower of Kalemonvo

>>737027546
Because zoomers and casuals.

>>737027546
>are there any modern examples of this anymore?
Darkhaven? Made by the original Blizzard North devs of Diablo 1 and 2. Haven't tried it yet though missed the demo period and am waiting for their full release.

>are there any modern examples of this anymore?
yeah they're called 'soulslikes'. they're methodical slow paced dungeon clearing action, but with better controls.

>>737027739
Absolutely not. Actually play video games instead of shitposting please.

>>737027546
POE2. You will necessarily have to play the game methodically and slow paced at the start of a new league. Just don't do stupidly strong meta shit and that'll be your gameplay all league.

>>737027546
You do realize the optimal play for Diablo 1 was a Sorcerer teleporting around casting chain lightning zooming just as fast as all the newer ones?

>>737027546
Funny that this is what POE2 was aiming to do but failed miserably and became the very thing it hated. I hope the devs unfuck it before release but that's a longshot

>>737027960
>casting chain lightning
You mean Apocalypse?

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>>737027546
Champions of Norrath and Return to Arms were the last good methodical well thought out ARPGs before everything turned into poeslop.

>>737027546
Because there's literally only ONE successful ARPG after Diablo 2 and it plays like that, with literally everything in between and after that doesn't play like that failing super hard.
The market spoke. The gamers spoke. The money spoke. Any ARPG that isn't measured in screen clears per second isn't worth it and will fail.

>>737027997
In Diablo 1 it was only on staves and scrolls. Staves having max of 36 charges.

>>737027960
It's very rare to get teleport, and you run into lightning immunes as early as level 9.

>>737028143
God I hate goycattle

>>737027546
I think it comes down to people not understanding what made Diablo work. There was this idea that Diablo 1 and 2 were liked because of the GRINDING and the LOOT and the clones that came afterwards became reduced to those elements with everything else being an afterthought.

>>737027546
It never existed, at least not to an interesting level, clearing was only 'slow paced' when people were bad and the game was fleshed out. There was never any 'high level slow placed engaging combat' in an arpg. You can still play like that, even moreso in POE2 until you get good, it's simply impossible to have meaningful combat well into endgame if you want to have a complex game with long term progression.

I already know the answer but how many hours of d1 have you played in the past 10 years? Im thinking less than 10 because it is easy to master it and it quickly gets boring and loses all 'action oriented gameplay'.

SSF POE2 is pretty good for that though you can still eventually scale into absurdity

>>737027961
>Funny that this is what POE2 was aiming to do but failed miserably
Actually it succeeded immensely at first and saw universal praise, but then streamers whined they couldn't turn their brains off and read chat while the game cleared entire screens with one button for them, so GGG twisted PoE2 into a mockery of 1 at their behest.

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>>737027786
I'm sorry to hear you haven't played the games, but they're action RPGs about slow methodical solo adventuring, rather than running through corridors spamming flashy AoE attacks. They capture the spirit OP is asking for better than any Diablo descendant.

>>737027653
looks cool, may pick it up next time its on sale
thanks anon

Unironically Borderlands 1but only 1 everything else devolved into the same zooming for loot screen clearing flashy bullshit but in fps form

ARPGs were never good and click to move/attack is the worst control scheme in existence

>>737027546
Diablo 2.

>>737028218
everyone skipped floors that weren't suited to their build even back in Diablo 1. Unless you know what you're doing you're going to skip a floor that had Black Deaths. Or anything that takes too much work. Just like how you'd skip immunes in Diablo 2.

You could buy Teleport book from Adria in town.

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>>737027546
Modern examples probably not but one my favorites from back then was Nox. That was an ARPG done right. Had story, had interesting mechanics and classes like the conjurer summoning enemy monsters, it had a deliberate feel to the combat and had a cool aesthetic and didn't take itself too seriously. It even had fanservice

>>737028267
That is tragic. Is there any hope at all at this point I see they're on 0.5 so there's still a long way to go?

>>737027546
what retards like you need to understand is that you just are glorifying nostalgia. people either want spreadsheet dopamine extraction or they want actual rpg-based real time combat. D2 was a novel idea that combined both, and as the genre progressed it was clear that the main draw of the arpg combat was the dopamine extraction

>>737028481
>that you just are glorifying nostalgia
Wrong. I played CoN last year on PCSX2 and it was kino. I even finished all the challenges and got the secret sword
I also played BGDA2 a few years ago and I thought it was good too. I needed a much needed break from POE so it was a very nice change of pace.

>>737028423
Ah Nox, I had played every westwood game and this one was my least favourite for a long time because of how slow it felt even in comparison to diablo, but god damn it's good shit.

>>737028464
poe is a cash cow financially guaranteed by the chinese government, they will at the very least continue development.
hope for a good game though? the game has been shit 90% of the time since 3.0 came out and that was 9 years ago now

>>737028464
Hope? it still exists if you want it. Just go play HCSSF and play an ethical build. People choose to play zoomy shit instead

>>737028423
I replayed this not too long ago and yep it's still kino. Slamming and charging into things as a warrior with a giant hammer was hilarious along with the scream he does. And if you missed your target and charged into a wall you would be stunned like an idiot. So soulful.

>>737028464
No hope unless GGG stops listening to streamers, which they won't because streamers are their biggest shills.

>>737027546
No Rest For The Wicked
Exanima
Wolcen

You can still play really slow methodical builds in modern ARPGs. You might hate yourself after 150+ hours of mapping and endgame content but you can do it.

>>737028862
Doesn't work the same way because the games aren't built for it.
Look at a video of the final level of Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance vs videos of the final levels of Path of Exile. It's an overall difference in design philosophy that changing your build won't fix.

>>737028295
Game 1
>equiping a shield allows you to block ranged attacks coming from that side
>you can see where the traps come from
>traps have travel time so you can block them
Game 2
>blocking doesnt exist
>traps manifest out of nothing
>instantly hit you

Gee i wonder why people dont like 2

>>737027653
Will take a look thanks Anon.

>>737029008
Are you pretending to be stupid here? The comic depicts two players with different approaches to the same level in the same game. And you can dodge through dart traps with good timing.

>>737027546
The Action parts of these games is always the worst part so being able to win by high min maxing of your RPG stats is always the better game.
Like what's the point of any defensive stats when in an APRG you can just get out of the way? They have bosses with slow as fuck very telegraphed attacks that do obscene damage because they expect you to literally get out the way, but the regular enemies either need to be equally slow as fuck or they end up using instant attacks that fuck you up fast because why bother with defensive stats just for low tier mobs when they don't work on bosses?

>>737027546
Um that's Hellfire not Diablo 1.

>>737029164
Yes, and as a historical artifact, we should make sure people realize Hellfire was never playable on Battle.net.

inquisitor: martyr is slow-paced like that if you care about a warhammer 40k setting

>>737028931
POE2 is certainly built for it, you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>737027546
>zooming around the map clearing screens with flash rainbow fireworks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPu1_aVX_H4

>>737028295
>That comic
Then they released an entire game mocking players that use shields at all and forced you into their magical faggot realm of parry-fishing.
Miyazaki deserves CBT by a fucking albinauric woman second gen for the flanderization that's taken place in regards to souls bosses as well.

>>737029470
Seconding this. It has a huge variety of classes to play as and even a cool story with multiple campaigns including stuff with Fabius Bile and others.

>>737029482
The streamers ended that part since 0.3.

>>737027546
The genres just branched off. It's worth noting the original Diablo was a traditional roguelike with real-time combat and multiplayer minus the permadeath. What you're looking for can still be seen in some roguelikes.

>>737028797
QRDs?

>>737027546
ecelebs and their fanboys made it this way
now whenever an arpg comes along the first thing the average arpg player does is google meta builds so they can clear screens with 1 button, if an arpg doesn't let you do that then those fags whine and give it negative reviews

>>737030480
What a sad situation. How can we ever fix this shit?

>>737030632
kill all streamers

>>737027546
Most video game genres have devolved into zooming, not just arpgs.

>>737027705
Played the demo, it was really fucking bad unfortunately.

>>737033943
When are Tribes and Quake making their come back?

Modern ARPG gameplay is better than Diablo 1's gameplay. Diablo 2's gameplay involved teleporting at high speeds and flashing the screen with bright colours.

So I guess OP is a fan of specifically Diablo 1 and no other ARPG like this.

Old good new bad faggot.

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>>737028295
if only any soulslike trash had good controls

>>737028232
They're not goycattle, you are a braindead contrarian. Contrarianism requires no individual thought.

>>737027546
The biggest thing Diablo 1 brought, which was never done again, and watching Frieren reminded me of :Grimoires.

All Diablo 1 spells had to be learned through tomes (grimoires). And at that era of the internet, there were no wikies. Shit, there wasn't even GameFaqs. So when you saw two sorcerers square up: you had NO fucking clue what the fuck spells you were about to witness. It was not only the wild-west of internet gaming, but a frontier of learning and casting spells which has never been duplicated again (get it), because everything now is about stupid min-maxing spell and skill trees instead of exploration and discovery.

It would be amazing to have a game in the style of D1 again with a dynamic spell system, but you could only learn spells either through attempting to create them (and paying the price of your life potentially, if you fucked up), by discovery of written tomes and grimoires, or by having somebody who knows the spell teach you. No other ways, and no automatically learning shit just because you leveled up.

>>737034108
They all have good controls though.

>>737034071
>Modern ARPG gameplay is better than Diablo 1's gameplay.
Regarding what? Skills? I've heard modern ARPGs have started to get rid of random chance to miss melee attacks which I think is a straight up improvement but I kind of liked D1 being a bit slower paced and making you use the environment more to your advantage. I haven't really seen many modern RPGs do that where you need to pay attention to your surroundings a bit more.

>>737030632
You can't. The genre is fucked.

>>737028464
>>737028267
The issue is that the retards who want PoE1 but new want a live service game. The slow methodical approach that PoE2 wants only works on a one and done game that maybe you replay every now and then. Most people who hate it like it was back then hate it because it made seasons tedious to replay and fucked with the power fantasy zoomshit like games like d3, poe 1 and warframe caters to. Nobody has problems with it in same soulslikes because you are not supposed to play those every other month for new seasons.

>>737034753
That pace is fine for 3 playthroughs a year which has roughly been the schedule.

>>737034773
Tell that to the people who play it religiously and say they are the main audience because they whale for stash tabs.

>>737034825
I tried for a little bit but I remembered arguing on the internet is never going to convince anybody, now I mostly just drive-by the global chat to dunk on tradies while I'm grinding.

>>737027546
People broke Diablo 2 with absurd builds and everone wanted just to play like this.
There was only one good ARPG and this was Diablo 1. The rest was never good.

>>737034868
Every time I tuned to global chat, there is always someone typing in all caps screaming about politics and conspiracy theories which tells me exactly what kind of autists this genre tends to attract.

>>737027546
>what happened to methodical slow paced but still action oriented with loot arpgs like diablo 1 and bgda?

It became Dark Souls

>>737034909
Reprobates and degenerates all. I can't believe such a crowd exists in my thinly veiled gambling simulator.

>>737034910
bullshit. Dungeon Crawlers evolved into Dark Souls (Wizardry -> Kings Field -> Demons Souls)

>>737034958
Wouldn't you call Diablo a dungeon crawler also?

>>737027546
Play Diablo: The Hell: 4

>>737027546
They became roguelikes. Arpgs now are just glorified Cookie clicker

>>737027653
Soulless UI. Too clean.

>>737034980
No. Because it evolved from roguelikes.

>>737035007
Brother, the goal of roguelikes is to get a build that turns the game into Cookie Clicker.

>>737035036
Retardbro, Rogue was a dungeon crawler

>>737035017
>ugh it's not gritty like diablo 1 so it has no soul
when you graduate from this dumb mindset, life gets better

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>>737035064
no

>>737035103
Yes, actually.

>>737027546
I HATE this fuckinh gaslighting
>Diablo was always about killing 100000000 enemies at once and power fantasy!
No, it wasnt you fucking zoomers

>>737027546
Ah.
There was achain of events.
First - Diablo 2 MULTIPLAYER got popular along with farming Diablo.
Then Lord of Destruction addon has happened - reorienting the game from the journey to "endgame" grind.
Then "streamlining" patch 1.10 has happened, that has trivialized most of the game (for example - before necromancer has to level Skeleton Mastery to make skeletons stronger, Raise Skeleton had only increased the simultaneous amount of them - after the patch Raise Skeleton now increases hp and damage of skeletons with each level with Skeleton Mastery doing the same thing, so instead of at least reading what skills do player just can dump points and have no reason to choose what to level).
Then Diablo 3 had happened - full action game with RPG elements instead of a CRPG with action elements - just like Morrowind-Oblivion-Skyrim.
And the rest is history with only Titan Quest trying to be pre-1.10 LoD development - and even this was already tainted.
So it is, basically, protobaalrunners fault and the only original main developer of D2 deciding to cater to those faggots.

>>737029008
lmao you're exactly the kind of faggot the comic was making fun of
what a perfect demonstration of unashamed retardation

Diablo2 tapped in to the same kind of grinding autism as EverCrack and WoW.
Ultimately it ended with Chris Wilson making a spiritual successor that he then turned in to the most brainrotted zoomclears + RMT economy because his favorite part of D2 was selling duped drops to other players for $$$. Many action RPGs dropped the isometric pov and became the Souls genre.

>>737035038
A good one doesnt allow that to maintain the integrity of the game.
Meanwhile modern ARPGs are balanced around that garbage.

recommend me a slow paced loot grinder dungeon crawler arpg.

How similar are Diablo I and II to Divine Divinity?

>>737027546
Diablo and similar games were never good. Simple as

>>737035369
That's what I'm inclined to believe. Everything I like about PoE2 is apparently everything your average ARPG player hates. What's there to do?

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>>737035281
PSO

>>737027546
Ironically, Diablo is far slower than roguelikes it is copying. The modern issue is more that enemies are not compelling, there is no tactical element at all and it is all casino fuckery and insta-deaths.

>>737028295
this comic is sad
top is just handholding by the narator. the player doesn't even have will he just constantly searches for the "design" of the game creator
miyazaki cocksuckers are the worst of the souls comunity

>>737027546
>talk about arpg
>by posting dungeon crawler
>>737035103
>>737035124
diablo 1 was your dungeon crawler but with removed turn system. Initial d1 was turn based until someone pitched an idea about removing ti and making it real-time. Main dev wasopposed to it but when he actually tried the idea they needed to force him out of office because he was glued to the game

>>737027546
That was already a thing in Diablo and Diablo 2.

>>737035701
if I'm in a labryinth guarded by enemies, am I not supposed to try an inhabit the headspace of my enemies and outflank them? what the fuck IS an ADVENTURER supposed to bethinking when he is travelling through dangerous territory?

>>737035397
>Everything I like about PoE2 is apparently everything your average ARPG player hates
>What's there to do?
I think the mistake is clinging to the ARPG name when that genre has run away from Diablo 1 and defined itself as everything Diablo 1 isn't. Of course ARPG players hate games that don't play like their flashy dopamine generators that play themselves, the genre is essentially defined by that at this point. Instead any "Diablo like" should probably focus more on horror and dungeon crawling as its pillars to avoid becoming yet another clicker game on wheels.

>>737027546
D1 and D2 aren't worth playing. They've been superceded. Watching people play, it's so slow and lame. People who play PoE say this all the time "what if the game was really slow and bad and you just had auto attack" and it's shit. No one wants that. What you really want is to be 10 years old again "actually this awful game was secretly good" no, it wasn't. Sometimes things are just better.

>>737027739
What kind of faggot are you? Those games are basically silly arcade games. People are simply fooled because of the art style and the player having low health. It still relies on ridiculous anime attacks and anime physics, dodge roll spamming, basic pattern recognition and bosses with heavily telegraphed attacks.

>>737033992
Unreal guys are milking Warframe so that's your best option if you haven't played it. I think I run around at 40m/s without the actual speed builds that will have you running into walls and shit.

>ugh the games I don't understand the appeal of shouldn't be played
>they're so slow and lame
why are there so many children in these threads?

>>737028232
>victim blaming

>>737035360
DD is like an ultima with diablo combat

>>737035701
I suspect you're not even a sentient being and I would imagine nothing worse on the planet than playing a TTRPG with you.
>My character is going to check to see if the hallway is safe to cross
>Whyyyy?
Thinking about being exposed to you brings out the worst feeling I've ever had about people in every capacity, ever.

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>>737027653
>open diablo thread
>someone brought up my game
nice
here's some keys
04XRA-MLMQC-5DWRW replace R with E and W with V
XBRTJ-IZM68-KC6H7 replace X with 8 and 7 with 2
WE695-LIYIZ-M08BE replace B with C and Z with Q
PM98N-2BJTN-CGYLT replace P with K and 2 with L
i'll do more later

>>737035884
Still more grounded than 99% of games, including most isometric arpgs. I would personally love a realistic action rpg but unless Sui Generis stops being vaporware I don't think we'll ever see it

>>737035095
Yeah. They just wont get my shekels. Life is just that ez.

>>737036070
Neat. Got the second key since the first one wasn't workin.

>>737035785
This "adventurer" has the power to become indestructible by rolling and also happens to be immortal and resurrects when he "dies".
You're supposed to move forward at a normal pace and just reflex roll through danger you literally old faggot

>>737036070
got the last one, cheers. I'll try it. how does it compare to something like Grim Dawn, at least mechanically?

>>737036145
Man, now you're sounding like a video essayist even Kotaku would refuse to hire. If you want to poke holes that thoroughly, literally every video game ever made falls apart. Dying fucking hurts and the protagonist has no complete guarantee he will come back every time.

>>737029132
Picture one depicts character hit in the side
Picture two depicts character shot in the back
>these are the same game
Go be a faggot somewhere else

>>737027546
D1 is boring, PoE1 is kino. It's that simple.

Wow the grounded realism of diablo 1...

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>>737036141
there's 4 letters which require changes in the first one (unless someone already claimed it)
hope you like it

>>737036205
grimdawn is made by a team
this one is made by a guy in his underwear in a basement

jokes aside, monvo is barebones by design. grimdawn is faster with more stuff by comparison, and it also drops at least twice as much loot.

tok also doesn't have a town (it's a deal-breaker to a lot of players) so it's a bit more survival-horrory in the sense that what you have on your is what you're gonna have to make do with until you reach the next safe-zone or shop area, or until you kill a mook that drops a potion.

>>737036282
It's a fucking game, the pain of wasting hours being a slow retard objectively hurts way more than losing a few minutes at most from dying and respawning.

>>737036282
Your point was that you should play the game slow checking every stupid floor tile before you step on it.
I'm just showing you how retarded you sound.
And my metapoint is that this type of thinking leads to author worship such like miyazaki cocksucking. Or kojima, miyamoto, etc. Usually foreigners because less is know about them so you can't just point out their obvious bullshit.

>>737036369
to be desu the best part about the town in diablo 1 was the entrance to the cathedral anyway

>>737036145
>ignore thinking and react to stimulus
Literal NPC definition.

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>>737036369
Now you have my attention.

>rainbows
Diablo 3 happened. If you don't remember that uproar over Diablo 3 rainbows then you need to shut the fuck up.

>>737036369
>>737027653
>>737036851
needs a shop
needs a stash
needs npcs to show up more
needs npcs to not die because you completed a single quest in one level

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>>737038458
all of it will happen in the sequel
it'll have guns too i guess

>>737027546
Bgda? Zoomie Brain need brrrr

>>737038680
dismemberment physics my beloved, extra points for actually affecting how enemies behave (like those armgun guys charging into melee if their gun arm gets shot off)
also have you considered putting some shaders on top, especially for the diablo clone a pixelization filter could work wonders

>>737038680
(duchess nukem voice) i've always wanted to be a redhead

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>>737038805
cheers
>pixelization filter
i tried and didn't like it too much, sadly

>>737027546
Nioh 2 is ultimate evolution of arpgs

>>737038846
female dukey nukey is Lollipop Chainsaw, change my mind

>>737028295
>viral viral viral

I haven't heard that in a long time. We should bring it back for shill threads.

>>737034112
Very nice observation. Great idea.

>>737027546
>why did arpg devolve into zooming around the map clearing screens with flash rainbow fireworks?
When they started appealing to the endgame D2 community from whom the game was rushing, endless baal runs, rune farming, hyper-optimizing, economy, external site trading, RMT, etc.
When it was time to make other games like D3 and PoE they centered the entire genre around that.

>>737036403
>>737036389
Have you ever thought, that a) not every videogame is made to cater to your ADHD and b) because of not understanding that you're the one, who sound stupid?
Yes, it is perfectly okay, that games like Diablo 3, nu-Doom and Assassin's Creed with "fluent" and fast gameplay exist, these games are made for you. First Dark Souls is not. It is not impossible to play it the way you deecribe, but you seem to fail to immerse yourself in the game and to associate yourself with the character.
You speak "death of the character doesn't matter", but to me you sound like "i don't feel anything this character is supposed to feel" - which means, that you lack imagination and as a result you don't experience an adventure, but merely a physical stimulation with some visualisers attached.
So you are no more eligible to talk about adventures than a blind man - to talk about beautiful vistas.
Seriously, try playing Pong - it will give you way more satisfaction than any adventure game of any genre.

>>737027546
All of gaming has been reduced to number go up.
"methodical slow paced" could disturb the gamer experiencing their number going up.

>>737027546
>what happened to methodical slow paced but still action oriented with loot arpgs like diablo 1 and bgda?
third person action games are a better fit, like severance and sword hero imo

>>737027653
made by an anon btw

>>737028423
every one of the three classes were fun

>>737038680
That honestly looks kinda fun.
I might have to watch for when it drops.

>>737028267
>succeeded immensely at first and saw universal praise
lol

>>737036070
Bought your game a few months ago. Got an unique dagger that did +1 damage for every hit (resets on a miss) went full dex and ruined the experience by 1 shotting everything. Tbh I didn't finish the game but that felt pretty dumb. Overall good game though

>>737030296
>Early access game that's part soles part diablo by the ori devs
>Early access game that will never ever fucking leave early access and is somehow supposed to be just a small demo/prologue to a CRPG. dungeon crawler with physics based combat.
>I dunno.

>>737040448
yeah that’s Lashing Claw
on release it could scale infinitely but i nerfed it to max out at like +20 or so, forgot the amount

glad you had some fun with the game though!

>>737030480
yeah basically this hit the nail on the head

>>737035127
They never played the game itself. Only what they saw on video like pattern and dragon builds.

>>737035401
Based.

>>737036070
Doing yeoman's work there. Props.

>>737036920
I remember this ridiculous saga. What were they thinking?

>>737040013

But there are still methodical slow paced thought requiring games out there.

What's with all the ARPG threads lately?

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>>737044505
But you don't explode entire screens and don't get loot explosions everywhere in those, so they are literally unplayable

>>737033826
This but unironically

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>>737036070
Hey bro, your game runs like shit in some maps. I can run D2R without issues.

>>737027546
Diablo 2 1.0 is still kinda close to D1. It's worth for any D2 fan to play the original unpatched release. The patches/LOD with it's broken runewords and allowing you to buy mana pots just turned it into "wipe screen fast for loot" game.

>>737045484
sorry bout that
i fixed it a while back, it was probably the hall of pain giving you issues.

>>737045258
maybe because d2 got an expansion recently plus there are still various new ones coming out

>>737046103
d2 didn't get another expansion and never will

>>737027546
You're literally asking for vampire survivors, these games are just lame desktop widgets for people have given up, why complain the fidget spinner is flashier now

>>737046292
d2r did if that's what you mean

>>737046956
and d2r isn't d2
YNWBARD2

>>737047119
LoD isn't D2, so YNWBARD2 too.

>>737047119
fuck you i will so be a real dragon

>>737035127
it very clearly was

>>737027960
>>737029579

>>737045302
t. zoomoid

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>>737047228
t.

>>737047183
You spoony bard

>>737027546
Diablo 1 fucking SUCKS if you try to play as a Warrior.

>>737038680
You better shill your stuff everywhere
Why the fuck no one makes shooters ARPG?

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Return to sovl.

>>737048513
You should exclusively play as rogue in Diablo. Warrior is chasing goat archers and succubi all day. Sorcerer is brown and also all his power comes from resetting Adria's shop because you will get like 4 books total in a playthrough. Rogue can do melee and spellcasting well enough and is the best archer in the game, allowing her to flexibly use whatever you come across.

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>>737048565
Inquisitor Martyr. The heavy bolt gun is really fun to use as are many other things.

>>737048513
I tried playing a warrior and it's so much worse than rogue or sorcerer and I think the main reason is just the chance to hit. For rogue it doesn't matter because her dex gets so high, but as the warrior you can still miss so much on certain enemies even if you max dex and prioritize hit chance gear. The chance to miss is just way too high and there's not much you can do about it sometimes.

D2 even kind of has the same issue and melee classes are known to be generally worse than casters for similar reasons.

>>737048513
On the contrary everyone else dies too easily
it's either kill but get easily killed and die
or be able to survive but can barely kill

Words to filter if you want /v/ to be at least ok/normal/acceptable in quality
Demake
Devolved
Zoomers
Kino
Slow
Methodical
Based
Onions
Gay
Chad

Every time you kill a monster you pull the lever on a slot machine. You can increase your reward rate in 2 ways, the speed at which you pull the lever (kill more monsters faster) and the value of the reward (kill rare monsters with rarity multipliers). The genre is about optimizing your character to be more efficient and increase your reward rate, and the natural evolution is to blow up screens and zoom through maps.

If you're not into that, you're should probably consider a different genre. Even D2 evolves into targeted boss runs to pull that slot machine level over and over for the jackpot

>>737034905
Diablo 2 was still fine, but it spawned Median XL mod. I blame Median XL for all the bullshit we see in ARPG nowadays. PoE claims it copied Diablo 2, but they copied Median XL instead, and the cancer spread further from that.

>>737049524
Is PD2 any better in that regard?

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>>737049109
you're not even filtering the biggest offenders like tranny, woke, and slop

>>737027546
poe is to arpg what starcraft was to rts.

>>737049827
It's not as ridiculous as XL in terms of filling the screen with crap, but the speedrun mentality is still there in maps. PD2 focuses more on updating regular D2 and adding some PoE features, XL is complete insanity in comparison. It's the definition of excess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juExoyBwnYs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX94-umVYV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrG9-0r20ao
The most flashy PD2 builds I can think of right now is this
https://youtu.be/BB0wCn0gFLo?si=tkrJ2DtGHsfr9f0C&t=771
https://youtu.be/dS9PmRvuHeE?si=MqnteOiIkO4PuPpc&t=217
And at least these have benefit of sticking to spells and effects you can understand.
There are so many small and big things about XL that annoy the fuck out of me, even something like being able to make runewords in items that have more sockets than you need, because you can fill the rest with jewels, which immediately kills any item that doesn't have max sockets. And when you google a list of XL runewords, you will find some runewords that REQUIRE ONLY ONE RUNE TO WORK. Some version from what I remember just straight up told you to fill the item with jewels and then a specific rune at the end, and that was your "runeword". Add to that classes reworked to use often nonsensical custom spells, ruining any sort of class fantasy they had in order to just puke some random flashing colors and effects on the screen.

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>play Diablo 4
>no Diablo
Also I want to fuck Leah!Diablo

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I liked Diablo 3

>>737051840
I tried the demo and I liked the gameplay but there was way too much dialogue and desu I kind of get tired of random loot after a while.

>>737030480
Just say him name directly: fagthewfagtosis

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>>737036291
this comic is about a single game, Demon's Souls, it's from 2009's /v/, but you would've know that if you weren't a nefwag nigger
now go die
also souls games *are* the slow Diablo descendants whether you like it or not
>>737038680
I liked your tower
Good luck on the new project

>>737051517
>Those videos
Wow...

>>737029008
>>737029132
It's meta commentary on the excuses player 2 will make while playing the same game as player 1.

Tower or Dungeon?
No town, one town or multiple towns?
Choose!

Wasn't the entire Torchlight series just that?

>>737051654
fat-ass femDiablo is the only good thing that came from D4

>>737027739
He hated him because he told the truth

>>737038680
This just made me realize that most arpgs have the same kind of setting, fantasy. Pretty cool idea straying away from it.

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>>737027739

>>737056862
Because the mechanics you expect to see in ARPG work better with swords and magic than with guns. Same reason you see little spellcaster FPS, it just doesn't mesh together well unless you just make spells to be guns in disguise.

>>737057029
>unless you just make spells to be guns in disguise.
Ah the Tiny Tina's Wonderlands method

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>>737053469
>demon's souls folder
>calls newfags newfag niggers
I genuinely had to double-take because I didn't remember making this post.

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>>737048565
>>737053469
>>737056862
thanks anons
it'll be a while, though

>>737057241
damn this is what the demon hunter's grenades should have been in d3 instead of that useless gay crap

>>737048513
D1 is kino as a warrior. It’s the best way to use all the game mechanics. You can fight in melee, swap to a bow, and any magic you cast actually feels powerful.

>>737028295
I wish more than 20% of FROM's content across their games was like this but that's just not the case.

So Darkhaven is a complete bust? What went wrong?

>>737057241
there better be a lore explanation for how she manages to keep her instantly-getting-bloodstained hair clean between levels

Din's Legacy is pretty good

>>737056862
You could revolutionize the genre just by making a sci-fi ARPG that isn't Mass Effect. Even Titan Quest was a bit out there because it did mythology instead of DnD. Also, reminder that Fallout counts as ARPG.

>>737058026
Inquisitor Martyr?

doesn't the loot system in diablo games encourage the zooming? You want to kill as many things as quickly as you can to induce as many item generations as possible. and this goes for the first diablo too.

it's build right into the game formula.

no surprise the genre devolved into efficient farm spread sheeting and map zooming.

>>737057459
exits with a mandatory full-body decontamination shower

>>737058136
Everyone knows that Warhammer 40k is just Warhammer Fantasy in drag.

>>737058157
Yeah, it's the natural evolution of the core item economy. It becomes a time investment where you are trying to get the most out of limited time, so doing specific boss runs with the best drops for your level and what you want. Go farm Countess for three hours straight for runewords.
Makes me wonder how that overoptimization could be disrupted. Making the items finite somehow, either by removing enemy respawn or by artificially limiting spawns? But that would just make people make more characters in singleplayer if possible to trade, or ruin entire runs if certain items don't drop and, if you get rid of the probability entirely and make the items set, that ruins replayability instead.

>>737058026
Anyone know how Titan Quest 2 is looking so far?

>>737027546
There is a free one thats decent that you might like. Its pretty short though. Its called flare

>>737058389
>Making the items finite somehow, either by removing enemy respawn or by artificially limiting spawns?
so dark souls

No one mentioning Sacred?

sacred

>>737058916
>>737058789
>modern

>>737058538
Dark Souls doesn't remove or limit spawns outside of a few specific miniboss type enemies.
What it does do however is not have random modifiers on equipment drops.

>>737058157
Yeah, but it's also on devs to speed up the game.

>>737058393

>>737061337
I don't know, but apparently it has A/B bodytype

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>>737027546
In the past, PC wasn't really considered a serious platform for video games, and it got a lot of extremely casual games. People often forget that video games were not always popular. So what would be popular, like the diablo series, is games that very lazy boomers that enjoyed games for incredibly superficial reasons would play. Like if you look at PC "classics" it's like 90% that sort of thing. Naturally, as PC becomes more of a central gaming platform, these low effort genres have to slopmax to pull attention from actual video games.

>>737058789
>>737058916
What do you think about Last Pixel of Ancaria?

>>737059179
>most armor sets are unique
>tail and soul weapons are unique

>>737027546
I mean why do you think people loved dark souls?

I want something with the exploration of dark souls and the parrying/jab system of chiv 2 or something close to it. Both dark souls and chiv have your weapons able to collide with world geometry so the way you swing and position yourself can be important. But souls has turned quite a lot into rollslop and now degenerated to anime move slop without fair telegraphs so its just not satisfying.

Im with you though, blowing up everything on screen and pure build autism for trait selection is pretty gay.

I saw some indie game that looks like severance: blade of darkness. I will probably try that.
I tried to replay blade of darkness but its still got a clunky control scheme and I had crashing. And I think the game feels sped up compared to playing at like 30fps or less as a kid.

I think even a soulslike game could do more to have abilities give you access to secrets or shortcuts and take on more of metroid's aspects in level design.

>>737064540
Why are retards obsessed with metroidvanias, like there's a very narrow category of game design all retards are obsessed with. The early dark souls games are not good. You can obliterate everything in those games by slowly walking around in a circle, and most of the content that people actually like was backloaded into DLCs. Metroidvanias in general are not good, it's not easy to design a stage that can be traversed both forwards and backwards and have it be as interesting as a stage where you can only advance forwards. It's just like this low level slop that gives you participation rewards, like you can tell everyone who says this shit is absolutely asspained when the game puts an actual obstacle in their way instead of a breadcrumb trail of participation trophies. And that's functionally what diablo is, just constant in-game progress given out regardless of player performance. It must be a real fantasy for morons to slowly slide around like a slug and vacuum up sustenance, truly living the dream, eh?

>>737034753
>The issue is that the retards who want PoE1 but new want a live service game.
You realise it was originally pitched as an expansion to PoE as an alternate campaign merging into the same endgame right? Plus there was the complete abandoning of PoE1 when 2 first launched into beta. There's a reason it got hate and it was entirely justified.

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>>737027653
Looks like poopoo

>>737064540
>without fair telegraphs
stopped reading

>>737027546
Becuase "ARPG" wasn't even a broadly used term until D2 defined it. There was transitionary period between D1 and D2 that was filled with ARPG clones similar to D1. Dark Alliance was probably the last notable one I can remember, even though it tech.ically came out after D2.
But once D2 was out long enough, every single ARPG going forward started following its template.

The best ARPG is Seiken Densetsu 3

>>737047240
the creators of diablo 1 AND 2 said that they dont like that type of gameplay being the norm. Diablo 2 wasnt even really designed to be like that and it mostly became that after some balance patches made the game easier, invlucing a big overhaul patch, and they ended up abandoning the game early because of company politics so they never really got to put their finishing touches on it. They were going to have a second expansion and everything.

>>737068163
Then explain Darkhaven? from those same creators?

>>737067801
No that shit is slow as fuck and bosses have way too much HP.

>>737067801
That's a JARPG. Completely different.

I've seen desperate shills threads but this is so ROTFL and not even hidden
>I really need PRODUCT for my needs! Who can help me?
>here I come duuude! I have product on sale ;^)
>HOLY FUCK thank you om om om
>ehi here's some free keys, because I'm a chill guy, making a chill game
Shilling on chan must be so much worth

>>737027653
Does this game have sexy demons in it like D1/D2?

>>737068316
>Then explain Darkhaven?
Explain what exactly? How the brain dead zoom zoom shitters are going to lose their minds when they find out there are actual mechanics they need to dodge?

>>737068552
You have mental problems.

>>737027546
>itt we are pretending diablo 1 was good
ARPG without good action part is just a shitty RPG.

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>>737034112
Gamefaqs is older than diablo 1 and apparently had a guide 1 month after diablo's release.

>>737050506
Really shit gookclick?

>>737068920
Remember to post in discord how many sales this shill thread made you

>>737027546
>methodical slow paced but still action oriented
They are called souls like now

>>737068552
Then why are you in the thread? Do you hate yourself that much?

>>737027960
>"optimal"
For what purpose?

>>737048761
Is that game any good? It seems like whenever it's brought up here the anon thinks it's either the coolest shit or the shittiest shit.
And the devs made King Arthur Knight's Tale and I too flipflop between thinking that's the coolest shit or the shittiest shit.

>>737069736
DS1 is the only one that can be called methodical and slow paced. DS2 is slow-ish but not methodical, DS3 is neither and ER is DBZ-tier bullshit.

>>737069842
>oh a diablo1 thread I like diablo
>open
>shill thread

Last contribution to this shit thread. Go shill on social media

>>737068552
I am sorry that you have to live with autism but it is not our fault. Do not inflict yourself upon us.

>>737028326
The only right answer

>>737070216
>any games like this?
>my game is like this
>SHILL SHILL SHILL
Perhaps fuck off? Get smarter?

>>737028326
>le X was le never le good

>>737028326
Nioh was cool.
I thought the Ascent was also kind of cool.

>>737068163
>the creators of diablo 1 AND 2 said that they dont like that type of gameplay being the norm. Diablo 2 wasnt even really designed to be like that
Eh, then why we have sorceress and her flashy skills and her teleport.

>>737027546
>why did arpg devolve into zooming around the map clearing screens with flash rainbow fireworks?
retard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-L9OcY14AY

>>737027546
>Hellfire

>>737070492
because teleporting around is fun and they decided on not kneecaping their fanbase by introducing skill cooldowns, hoping that they wouldn't devolve into hyperautism (rookie mistake)

>>737027546
>zooming around the map
I'm not a poe drone but this was clear to me, if they ever want to achieve their "meaningful combat" they have to remove any action speed modifier from the game, on you and mobs, and then adjust all action speeds to tune for what they want the game to play like.

>V not required

>>737070790
yeah, it would be even weirder if they made items that give teleport to all the other classes too.

diablo 2 builds are either fast and good at clearing or they are shit

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>>737027546
maybe check out this game
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1315180/Spark_in_the_Dark/

or exanima

>>737027653
Looks AI generated. At least UI.

>>737038680
Look up Zax.

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It's called powercreep you absolute moron, every single franchise starts with "tamed" combat and "meaningful" and ends becoming a parody of it was one day:
>Monster Hunter was about position and commitment on your actions
>nowadays everything has a counter or extra iframes
>Dark Souls started slow with simple combat
>Elden ring is becoming a bullet hell wiith bosses that attacks 30 times per second
>Diablo started slow with a few enemies per map
>now its about cleariing 1000 enemies per second while dropping legendaries left and right
>Resident Evil started with aim, shoot and run
>now you need to parry, juggle enemies, aim on their head, aim for weakpoints

>>737068163
Blizzard has literally never predicted the way their games play at a high level until WoW, and that one was designed by hyperautistic EQ raiders.

>>737072475
How is Exanima?

>>737027546
I thought PoE2 tried to do that, but reading comments here seems like they're caving to backlash and going back to more PoE1 style gameplay?
I HATE the zooming, it just turns the game in to an even shittier version of "vampire survivors" -type of game.
I was going to get PoE2 if they lowered the price a but but if it's going back to the braindead zooming, I'm gonna just ignore it.
I was already pretty tired of those devs after watching their frankly DISGUSTING microtransaction prices.
Even a fucking gacha game is more generous than the cancer they're pushing on the behest of their Chinese overlords (or out of their free will)

>>737074379
>eems like they're caving to backlash and going back to more PoE1 style gameplay?
that is true. it's awful

>>737074379
You can always play a slow build/hc/ssf and not buy pixels. If you want tabs wait for sale.

>>737074379
PoE1 zooming is still miles better than PoE2 rollslop. Its such a forced fucking mechanic that its required no matter what build you play or what content you play.

>>737074379
>I was going to get PoE2 if they lowered the price
It'll be free when it's 1.0

>>737074283
difficult game to judge. it's certainly like nothing else you've ever played. and imo getting used to the controls and physics is more intuitive than people will tell you. but it's also pretty hardcore, and the level design (at least in the first few zones) is mostly anonymous mazes of corridors that don't really make a lot of sense. basically bad level design. the more recent additions have more memorable layouts though. also, the last major update was 2 years ago so people are starting to get really pissed at the Devs but they do post monthly devlog updates

>>737075236
Also, you may end up spending several hundred dollars on stash tabs.

>>737075338
Stop being disingenuous will ya? You can play perfectly fine with tens of dollars worth of stash tabs AND they transfer from poe1 to poe2 for free.

>>737075338
>several hundred
It's like 10 on sale for the ones you need. And if you play SSF you don't need any!

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>>737075654
SSF is why I need all of these tabs.

>>737075831
wut the fug

>>737028640
this is such a retarded take I see people make, how does playing HCSSF even solve anything in regards to the builds available in the game and their viability? Especially in regards to how they play i.e. zoom zoom

>>737076319
What if I need that item for that class I was never going to play, anon? Multiply that by like 500. I'm getting better about it but the space is still useful because I like putting off managing my crap.

>>737065168
>justified
debatable
PoE 1 has been power crept into oblivion, and unto oblivion it should be cast, theres no turning back into what that game has become they SHOULD be focusing on redoing things from the ground up in PoE 2

>>737030480
I've noticed its all the bugmen streamers that are especially egregious with the minmax autism, just like their countrymen who believe cheating in multiplayer games is normal and encouraged because who want to be a sucker playing by the rules, the ideologies from which of course stem from having an overpopulated concentrated population which cultivates Machiavellian cutthroat mentalities, its ingrained in their DNA at this point

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>>737036291
HOLY NEWFAG
lurk for atleast two years before posting.

>ARPG
>there's no action
>there is no role playing
ok

Maybe just maybe stop looking up and using cookie cutter builds that go zoom zoom? This is on you.

>>737028797
Wolcen ?
0 fkn chance. that thing was slop

I wish they were still about zooming around, blowing up packs and getting loot. Ever since PoE made archnemesis core and tripletapped nerfed everything fun I've been looking for a replacement that scratches the same itch.

>>737054046
Its meta commentary on you sucking niggerdick

>>737079794
How about NRFTW?

>>737074887
Roll slop is unironically boring as shit. I'd rather be flame dashing over mechanics like in PoE1