You can grind irl skills exactly like grinding a video the problem is the lack of direct feedback means it's not nearly as satisfying short term which is what makes grinding doable/fun

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>>737116403
It's not a waste of time if you enjoy yourself, and there's value in having activities you can engage in that are purely for enjoyment to unwind from more productive or challenging hobbies.

>>737116549
I rather after 2k hours of playing a game, to unlock shit like knowing japanese rather than a pure steam number.

>>737116581
first learn English.

>>737116581
Good for you, I'd rather after spending time practicing and learning a useful skill for the day be able to relax and just play a videogame for fun without needing to justify myself.

>>737116403
Just wait for neural implants.

>>737116682
Is ok.

I just want something that makes grinding japanese enjoyable.

>>737116760
Any hobby or skill worth your time will get enjoyable after a threshold where you can learn through application. Art fucking sucks when you're just learning to draw circles and boxes but eventually you practice by creating unique things that interest you. I assume with japanese that after a certain point you can make part of your japanese practice consuming japanese media that would be impossible otherwise.

>>737117000
grinding vocabulary is ok, but gets tiredsome after spending 3 years and realizing you're only grinded 3k words.

I would say making this shit more enjoyable is a good idea.

>>737117268
>I would say making this shit more enjoyable is a good idea.
Couldn't think of a way to make it fun or enjoyable after 3 fucking years man? I have made my art practice more enjoyable in a dozen different ways, apply yourself.

>>737116403
it can, it just takes way way way longer than the couple hours you need grind in most videogames
it's called the 10,000 hour rule for a reason

Fastest way to fluency is binging youtube videos in your target language 16 hours a day.
Vidya is nothing but a stepping stone to novels.

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>>737117000
>>737117268
The nature of kanji forces you to do a certain level of grinding, even Japanese children don't really become properly literate without it, but the vast majority of your time studying any language should be direct engagement with the language. Grinding vocab/grammar/formal study has its place, but it's akin to staying in training mode in a fighting game and never going online. Go watch anime meant for children or something you've watched before, don't use subs, let yourself be confused, and look up the occasional word that's bothering you.

>>737117875
Japanese require to grind 100% the vocabulary.

There's nothing for a westerner but spend a shit ton of effort grinding.

It's not like learning french or spanish as an english speaker, where 50% of the vocabulary and grammar are already done for you before grinding.

>>737117875
Yeah that makes sense, application is where you're going to start retaining because your mind will interpret it as important to communication.

>>737118050
No shit you're going to have to learn every word you use, the guy is saying that most of your practice after learning the words should be in immersing yourself in their usage so your engagement becomes functional instead of purely academic. You've not just been spending most of your 3 years looking at vocab and repeating it out of context of its general everyday usage... have you anon?

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>>737116403
>leveling INT in a video game
>have to sit down and actually read an ingame thesis

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>>737118050
You have to grind, but none of that grinding REALLY sticks if you aren't watching precure raw. You need both, but I still insist that most of your attention should be spent on direct consumption.

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>>737118353
>leveling STR
>game turns your webcam on and forces you to do pushups

>>737118353
>leveling INT in a video game
>Have to write small program in x86-64 assembler

>>737118280
>>737118426
my point is more why can't a game help grinding something like japanese be a fun endeavour?

Most flashcard apps and anki are really terrible because they aren't fun.

>>737118671
Why can't you just do what the other anon was suggesting and make raw media consumption a larger part of your practice now that you've had almost half a decade of shitty vocab drills? That sounds a lot more fun to me.

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>>737118751
because most japanese media sucks.

>why do you want to learn japanese
Because I want to talk to japanese people online, not read pantsu pantsu loli pornography or pantsu harem wish fullfilment isekai garbage.

Japs can't write for shit.
Not even their serious writers are worth more than european ones.

>>737118671
Not them but how much would it cost to get, let's say 3 hours a week with native speaker? even over the internet
Clearly it's easier to learn when you can talk with a real person?
Sure it requires discipline but I think that's the point.

>>737119176
because trying to speak and talk when you only recognize 10% of the words of a random phrase is not fun.

>>737119134
>I've wasted 3 years of my life learning the language of a people whose writing I deem utterly worthless
If your motivations are this fucking stupid then I'm glad you're stuck in a self-imposed hell of vocab drills.

>>737119289
Nigger you just said that all you want to do(as in literally the only thing you would ever ever want to do) is talk to japanese people online... and now you're saying that anon's idea of talking to japanese people in a format of learning their language educationally would be unfun? What the fuck do you even want to do with this? You're the equivalent of someone allergic to peanuts trying to learn every possible peanut recipe in the world. This is beyond retarded. Seriously ask yourself why you're doing what you're doing and if it's worth your time.

>>737119289
10% is still a good start.
Even simple act of repeating a sentence after someone with feedback would get you far.
As a slav it's always funny to teach some foreigner how to pronounce phrases.
In fact many won't be able to do that for single words.
You start with commonly used language and build up from there, that's how learning works.

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>>737119134
>learning japanese
>don't like anime
>not enjoying the process
Man maybe you just need a new hobby. I study foreign languages because I genuinely enjoy working on it, the fact that I enjoy Japanese pop culture is really just a bonus; intrinsic motivation is always better than extrinsic. Why exactly do you want to talk to Japs specifically?

>>737119680
>>737119623
reading japanese sucks because you basically have to double guess the meaning.

my point is that I'm not complaining.
I am saying it would be great if there was a game where It was a fun experience and it was about grinding the 6k deck.

>>737119770
I want to show my ideas to comiket artist, eventually getting some of them in the industry.

You can't do that if you don't speak the language.

>>737119782
You sound like you're complaining. I would be too if I mentally trapped myself into learning an esoteric language that I will not use for literally anything ever.
Maybe ask yourself what you would even discuss with these japanese people you want to eventually communicate with if you consider the collective works of their culture to be worthless.

>>737119782
>reading japanese
I was thinking mostly about spoken language, think about it. You first learn how to speak. Then you learn how to write or read.
It's also more fun, their retarded chink-moon runes aren't helping.

>>737120034
I want to work with them, not consume panty loli harem masturbation comics.

>>737116403
>he doesn't know about autism grind

>>737120980
>I want to work with them
As a foreigner who barely speaks their language and considers all of their media and writing to be trash compared to its western counterparts? Yeah I'm sure that will go well. Have fun with those vocab drills, anon.

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>>737121248
not everything japanese is trash.

kurosawa is great.
miyazaki is also great.
miyamoto is also great.
uematsu is also great.
urobutchi is amazing.
urushihara is favorite of mine.

>>737121470
That's nice but just getting your foot in the door you'll probably be contributing art for the "panty loli harem masturbation" level of quality at comiket before you get to become a studio ghibli animator. If you ever get to that point calling most japanese writing inferior.

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>>737121659
my goal is writing pantsu harem isekai loli, but with the skill off a classical writer, and doing references to classical mythology and art.

Being pantsu harem BS doesn't negate the fact it can be done as a classical western work.

>>737121804
Lofty goal.
I wish you the best Anon.
May the fortune smile upon thee.

>>737121804
Hope it goes well for you but it probably won't if you have no desire to begin with consume the genre you want to revolutionize with your superior writing.

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>leveling Charisma in video game
>forces you to talk to women irl