you already posted this the other day
>combat is a clusterfuck of status effects, pretty much no feedback
play turn-based mode

>>737118753

PoE is possibly my biggest gaming disappointment. I expected the return of Baldur's gate and what I got was autistic numberfucking in a dull and lifeless world.

>>737120703
>play turn-based mode
This anon is right. PoE 1 and 2 combat us utter shit, but turn based modes rebalances how things work and is way more enjoyable. No fixing obsiddian massive boring dialogue dumps and one tone companion characters

They really, REALLY fucked up by letting people put their OC's in the game if they gave enough money to the kickstarter.
Long time since I played but i remember my enjoyment shooting up after i read the golden NPC's were chaff and started to ignore them.

>>737120819
>autistic numberfucking
How they tuned the attributes and their subsequent values is literally the shining jewel of the Pillars series. It's the only IP that finally took advantage of building off D&D and consolidating it all into the same level of scale of importance into an entirely new but familiar way. Sawyer literally solved the dump stat problem and you're sitting here and saying that's not revolutionary at all.

>>737124914

You don't get it.
The D&D attributes represented something real and tangible in the real world. Sawyer took that away and turned them into abstract numbers that mean nothing. So you get utterly retarded shit like wizards having high physical strength because that is tied to magic power now. If this doesn't bother you you are as autistic as Sawyer is.

>>737125182
>physical strength
The MIGHT attribute represents both physical and spiritual strength. It make sense since it's an inherently magical setting where physicality is not the only things that allows someone to carry giant boulders on their backs, sometimes a powerful Lich can easily do that because they have a high MIGHT score.

The worst part of PoE is that there's nothing worth fighting for in its world. There's no motivation to save it cause the world is just a dead end full of morose jerks. The only fun character is Durance and he's only fun because he's an asshole. There's no cute girls because Sawyer thinks waifus are sexist, there's nobody with any charm or joy. Just "here's some vaguely gaelic names, dead babies and kickstarter backers, enjoy".

>RTwP
>gold-plated NPCs
>Might in dialog scenes
The absolute most retarded complaints made by idiots.
>>737124914
It's the most elegant RPG system for a video game I've ever seen.
And despite Sawyer being the balance man, there is still a lot of freedom to experiment and fuck around.

>>737125382
>The MIGHT attribute represents both physical and spiritual strength

And it should not. That is bad design. That is my argument. You literally should not have the same stat govern both of those. It is illogical and unnatural to tie those together and they're only that way because Sawyer thought it doesn't matter what the stats mean, just that they're "balanced".

>>737125492
>It's the most elegant RPG system for a video game I've ever seen.

Either you have only played PoE or you are lying. PoE is not elegant at all and feels absolutely awful.

>>737125182
modern D&D attributes suffer from the same problems but people don't notice it.
For instance, Charisma represents an unspecified capability to influence people as if every way to do that comes from the same "talent".

Wisdom represents both common sense and being observant even though the two things are unrelated and it's perfectly possible to have common sense and be unobservant and vice versa.

>>737125584
But that is balanced.

>>737125676
Anon, my first RPGs were Icewind Dale and Baldurs Gate, where Dexterity was always a god-stat that governed AC, your ranged attacks, reflexes, how acrobatic your character is, sleight of hand, disarming traps and other skills. And where WIS, INT and CHA were routinely dumbed down if the character doesn't use either of them for spellcasting.

>>737125895
>Wisdom represents both common sense and being observant even though the two things are unrelated and it's perfectly possible to have common sense and be unobservant and vice versa
Not only that, it's also your willpower attribute, which means resisting spell effects.
Which makes sense, but then also willpower is used to roll against fear and panic effects, which means your feable cleric may stand firm in the face of a dragon, while your badass heavily armored fighter runs away shitting his pants.

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>>737125584
Josh is a self-admitted Something Awful poster by the way.

>>737120819
Aren't they the pinnacle of incompetence? They had the money and the power to clone bg. They fucked up big league
No need for originality, just copy it.

>>737125492
You haven't played a game besides poe? Funny. Maybe you should try another game?

>>737118753
they wrote a nice world, but they made the mistake of cramming all of the lore in one game. playing PoE is exhausting. at least PoE2 manages it a bit better

>>737126659
>>737125917
I'm the same anon.
You can't bring the same argument when you already got the reply.

>>737126460
any millennial or older, who did anything related to video games, posted either on saf or 4chan

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This chart is the primary reason as to why it's a good game. The ingenuity behind it is understated in RPG circles still.

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>TB mode is coming
RTWPslop lost
Josh Sawyer lost
Romance kino won

>>737127167
>Romance
Leave this thread, shipfag.

>>737126978
>wizards need might to deal damage
>barbarians need int to cleave better
yeah ok

>>737126460
Found the problems
>linearity
>no bad builds (objectively wrong, not all builds can best potd/superbosses)
>dumping stingst

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>>737126978
>good game
>zero build variety and classes
I'm not sure.
>>737127226
Sit down, incelGOD.

>>737126460
Hypocrite. All stats matter, but pen and might matter most.
Instead of fun they ended up with tedium.

>>737126978
>understated in RPG circles still.
I'm certain you are right and all others are wrong.

>>737127447
>>zero build variety and classes
The game sure has classes and you can build them in different ways.

Turn based for this game feels underbaked as fuck, the combat becomes significantly easier but you lose some gimmicks like ability to swap to a bow after shooting from a gun.

>>737127667
Are you sure? I do remember a lot complaints about classes and builds in PoE. Most skills were pretty useless.

>>737125474
Yeah, there's absolutely no motivation for you to invest in this setting. No emotional core, nothing. This is by far the biggest issue with the entire franchise. Hollowborn, they made a perfect description for their own setting.

>>737118753
>To understand what the fuck is even happening, why some faggy races hate each other, what you are even doing in some frontier lands, what races are of what society, or what the politics are between factions and why some of them hate you class/racial wise, you HAVE to read through lengthy lore dump that the writers dumped to the side, because the game will not clue you in otherwise.
>You will play the entire game asking yourself what the fuck is even happening right now, with no context.
Dogshit, into the trash it goes.

>>737127167
>>737127447
>Calls people that dont want romances in games incels
What is this mental gymnastic? You ship trannies want to boil down every game to romancing options. Kill yourselves already you worthless subhumans.

>make a druid or cipher and rape the game
>half the other classes are barely POTD ready
nice "balance"

>>737126207
>but then also willpower is used to roll against fear and panic effects,
What exactly is the issue here? Willpower sounds like the perfect stat to resist status effects and fears.

>>737127887
The mystery of the Watcher and your connection to a strange ritual from a past life is your call to action

>>737128060
Romance and sex are natural parts of any fantasy world. Only incels who play incel characters hate romances. Ship trannies? Irony.

>>737127854
All caster classes are cool and viable, it's just the martials that can lack variety since they all need to heavily pump accuracy to do anything, while also pumping like 4 different defensive stats so they don't get stunraped or mind-controlled. It means you don't have a lot of wiggle room for building damage on them.

>>737127423
>no bad builds (objectively wrong, not all builds can best potd/superbosses)
There's a difference between viable and optimal.

>>737128453
Except it's a shit from a long bygone era that has literally no emotional connection to the present you.
Look at virtually any popular crpg and how they handle emotional hook. PoE utterly fails in this regard because its premise it utterly faceless and detached from you.

>>737128187
Anon, you have in this very thread other anons that are extremely upset that a wizard in PoE might choke a bitch using his Might (which is never specified as being purely a physical stat), something that may happen in two or three dialog scenes, making a massive amount of fuss over how it breaks immersion or something.

Yet, in the so fabled and great D and fucking D, Wisdom is associated with increasing the Willpower stat, which is also used to withstand fear and panic effects. Of which classes like fighters and barbarians often have very little.
So, the brave and badass frontline warriors like fighters and barbarians are more likely to run away screaming when a dragon roars at them. A huge break from the actual archetype of the courageous man clad in steel facing huge beasts. Instead, the priestly dude behind them that they are supposed to protect will stand his ground while casting a spell, wondering why his meatshields ran away.
In PoE, Will is associated with Resolve, a stand very important for frontline characters (regardless of the class), so they actually have a good chance standing firm. Fighters can even get a talent to be immune to these effects.

>>737128503
Yeah I'm fucking sure all these gacha-coomers are having multiple real girlfriends right now.

>>737128667
That is not a problem at all since being Awakened in Pillars is a pretty big deal that fucks everyone up. You're also narratively losing your sanity as time passes on as is the fate of all Watchers. Maerwald, the first other watcher you seek, is an example of this. And in the endings where you don't solve the mystery of your past life, you end up lonely and going mad anyways. YOU GOTTA READ, ANON. READ THE DIALOGUE

>>737128825
>Awakened in Pillars is a pretty big deal that fucks everyone up
And the game completely fails to communicate it. You do what, get funny images during a rest? Incredibly boring, bland disconnected flashbacks? This shit is terrible.
>narratively
Yeah, narratively, because they are too shit to make it actually feel impactful to your character so they just say it during the endless boring info dumps.

I liked 1. 2 was okay. would rather play tyranny.

>>737128528
Sure. It's a stupid design principle.

>>737128692
Why are you replying to me. what do you want, retard, you're just saying words.

>>737128926
We're talking about motivations here as you brought it up. That is a narrative element. Souls in Pillars in Eternity are very much the central focus of the game and they have a tangible effect on everything. Almost all your big decisions are about souls. So if you don't get a grasp on how souls work in PoE, you're lost in the plot. They HAMMER it on you constantly by the way, how all these soul stuff works. Even in the intro you encounter a "soul" storm.

>>737125584
It’s not arbitrary it’s literally how the setting and lore works. A very mighty Viking man can send down extremely powerful lightning bolts from the sky, an incredibly brave Paladin can just shrug off shit thrown at him, inspire allies like a Jedi, and also impose fear in less composed men just by being in the same room. The whole setting is spiritual.

>>737129153
>We're talking about motivations here as you brought it up
Yes. Gorion's fate was a big emotional anchor of BG1 and the motivation for your character's journey. There's nothing like it in PoE1. It's completely faceless and inhuman. It just informs you that you will go mad expecting the player to give a slightest shit about it when he didn't form an emotional connection to the setting or your own character in any shape.
>They HAMMER it on you constantly
Yes, because they are too shit to show, not tell. That describes a lot of writing issues with PoE.

>>737128503
You are unironically mentally ill. So according to that logic, every game should have a dating mechanic? Yeah lets waste time and resources of developing something that only a handful of trannies and femoids will enjoy and completely ignore adding new, actually fun new game mechanics.
Again, kill yourself. You are subhuman trash and most of your life revolves around shipping like a faggot retard nigger trannoid. You live a life of a soccer mom that watches reality shows and tv dramas and just ships people together. End yourself.

>>737129356
>Gorion's fate is acceptable as a motivation
>but the PC's seeking for closure from a past life due to a cosmic affliction is not
Come the fuck on.

>>737128797
We're talking about video game and not reality. I don't really recommend you to play this card btw. You will fail. Anyway the character you play is part of fantasy world where every solder has a wife and children waiting for him at home. Where people marry in their early 20s. If you don't want romances that means your character is incel (no kids, no wife, no libido, no home). But why would anyone play as incel in video game? Oh I know. Self-inserting. Incels hate romances. This is redpill.

Is debate regarding Pillars of Eternity and this romance shit gonna be the new Skyrim civil war threads where it just gets reposted over and over again despite the threads arguing the same points over and over again?

>>737129558
Yes, a heroic death of a close person who cares for you in the beginning (and you see how he battles to death with your own eyes) is a VERY powerful motivator. Faceless, disconnected events from the past transmitted as a pure info dump are not.

>>737126460
I appreciate the Pillars system, it's elegantly presented and keeps you engaged with the majority of the ruleset.

>>737129369
I want to play RPG adventure not your incel tranny fantasy. And yes dating mechanics would be good.
>ignore adding new, actually fun new game mechanics.
Tell me more about fun new game mechanics in CRPG. Random combat encounter? Just play KotC2.

>>737129727
That is just up to taste then. It's just universally applicable to any sort of PC to be both Awakened and a Watcher which is a shit curse to have. Not only that but your past life is also one where you are connected to Woedica's greatest ally, Thaos.

>>737129681
>new
Bro...

>>737129853
Not that anon but the presence of player romance routes in a cRPG does not change whether or not the cRPG is good. Admit that. Admit it right now.

>>737129982
does not affect if a cRPG is good or not*

The game is really simple and I wouldn't say clusterfucky at all. Accuracy was simply the best the best the best. Basically all the early Feats you were taking were just bumping your Accuracy rate up to improve your Hits. like it really didn't have much wiggle room to customize builds. And then you got a high-level Cipher and combat was braindead since the Cipher just skullfucks everything

>>737130073
Accuracy is also tied to criticals but there are a fuckton of spells that also converts some hits to crits or just auto-crits. The "crampness" here is more about team comp rather than PC builds. You NEED the priest or a druid to buff/heal characters. You need someone to hold down a chokepoint. It's only when you've fully memorized an encounter is when you can diverge from that kind of team comp.

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>>737129982
>Admit that. Admit it right now.
Sorry Josh, but Pillars of Eternity® will never be good.
Though all female characters in PoE are so awful and unlikable I wouldn't let MC romance any of them. Maybe Josh is really gay
>Aloth
>Eder
Very romance coded.

>>737130348
It's a yes or no question. I am no longer talking about Pillars specifically.

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>>737130449
>It's a yes or no question
Maybe?

>>737130348
I don't expect it, but poe3 might be a banger.

>>737120703
That would turn it from fifty hours into a hundred and fifty.

>>737130585
Not him but there are no plans for a PoE3. Josh is burned out and the Pillars team have shifted more into making things like Avowed because Outer Worlds was a bigger success than Pillars.

This game has the worst combat I’ve ever seen. Your mouse clicks don’t work half the time because they decided to make it left click(?) instead of the same as other games with the same camera angle. Awful experience.

>>737125474
> Sawyer thinks waifus are sexist
He wrote Pallegina but it does seem like they cornered themselves into turning Valians all negros to justify having an ethnic culture (a place with majorty "oceanfolk"). Pallegina if she looked like >>737118753 I firmly believe /v/ would slobber over as they would Valerie from Pathfinder, except she's a Paladin that has a conflict in hated being a Godlike because it meant she cannot have children and is seen as genderless.

>>737131360
People slobber over Valerie because she, despite her messy writing, is still a likeable person. Paladin vagina was so insufferable i ditched her from the party.

>>737130714
>Josh is burned out
Modern medicine is a meme

>>737131713
>insufferable
Devil of Caroc is insufferable as she's the Chaotic Evil party member that just wants to kill people, Pallegina isn't. She's loyal to the ducs that gave her her life. You meet her at a crossroads in the 1st game where she casts doubt in a trade agreement that undermines the Dyrwood that either gets her kicked out of her order or return with honors in Deadfire.

>>737131713
Con 19

>>737131713
Pallegina is the nationalist character in Pillars of Eternity, she's extremely loyal to her homeland but can see that they act retarded sometimes which alienates the other nations. Other nationalist characteres in RPGs tend to be incredibly one-note and extremely jingoistic but Pallegina is the more "realistic" version of how a nationalist would actually function in a fantasy world where you've got some diplomatic sense in you.

>>737132758
Pallegina is decent enough as companion.