Not my problem. Either do it, or don't release a game.

japs will toe the line, they're very good at obeying orders

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>>737131865
>it actually takes a lot of time and effort to make offline versions of online games.
whoops

>>737131865
>it's harder to make online only games
Oh no! Anyway...

I just want mmos and gachashit to die

>>737131865
Multiple sloppisms in the post. If you can't write your own argument it shouldn't be taken seriously. In my opinion at least!

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>no it's very hard to make games offline ;_;
>pls understand, ubisoft is small indie company ;_;
>technology isn't there yet ;_;
Don't
fucking
care.
Make pro-customer decisions, or suck my fucking dick corponiggers. Simple sa.

>>737131865
all of japan's good games are offline already

>>737132070
You do know what X uses for translation, right?

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>>737131865
He's this close to getting it. SKG is not retroactive for a reason.

Less GAAS slop sounds like a win to me.

I like how /v/ is turning from stop killing games, to make sure you never make those games ever again, since I hate them.

>>737131946
I know this is hard for eurocucks to believe, but releasing a game is actually a right of mine protected by the first amendment of the constitution. You don't need a permission slip from the government to do it.

It's not difficult for most games which can simply have a LAN option instead of using online matchmaking

It's only complicated for mass scale gachas and MMOs and shit and even then plenty of people have successfully made and run private servers for those

The developer in OP's pic even says it's possible if you plan for it in advance, which is exactly what SKG is asking since it's not retroactive.

>>737132841
Then don't ask me to pay for it unless you can guarantee it will always be available for me to play.

>>737132980
You can decide for yourself whether you want to pay for it or not. I believe in you.

>>737132670
yeah they stop pretending after a few questions
>wouldn't this disincentivize people from making live service games that don't function without servers?
>yes, and that's a good thing
just advocate for banning games you personally dislike at that point

It takes less effort than the amount of shill spamming they are paying for. The only argument companies have against this is that it prevents them stealing their old products away so people will buy their new product. It's along the same lines as their scummy practice of preventing free speech.

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I DEMAND THAT PUBLISHERS RAISES PRICES TO PAY DEVS TO ENSURE ANY ONLINE GAME I PAY FOR NEVER DIES

>>737131865
This is like corpos saying it's too much effort and might lose them a few dollars to not just dump garbage and toxic waste straight into rivers

Complete nigger mentality

>>737133115
That is a good thing though. Why would I want the game to disappear one day instead of being able to replay it?

>>737132951
The only difficult part I can see is seperating the server applications from the proprietary shared mass of credential services.
So stuff that is baked in to working with playstation accounts or nintendo accounts.

Everything else can just be released and the players can figure out how to make it work.

They don't even need to promise the server code will run on a normal system.

>Corporate bootlicking jap chimes in
(*^_^*)

>>737131865
Uh actually youre obligated to satisfy consumers and their needs to consume
BAKE THE CAKE

It's a lot more work and cost to make a game requires company provided servers. This is just obvious fact to anyone who stops to think about it for 5 seconds. Being able to rob your customers is profitable enough to make it worthwhile.

And that's my problem how?
You have money. Use it.

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>>737131865
>we need anti-cheat and antitamper
we had a thing called UNREAL TOURNAMENT(protip: we still have), and those were never necessary.

>>737131865
Not my problem.

>>737132841
Scamming people is not a right protected by any law, and if you sell a product with intent to rugpull later you are scamming people.

>>737133094
Cry about it. If your game requires online to function then it shouldn't be released in the first place. Design better products

>>737133239
some things are made to be ephemeral

>>737132670
>/v/ is turning from stop killing games
A handful of grifting pajeets are not /v/, brownoid.

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>>737131865
Don't become a developer if you can't maintain the server

>>737131865
None of what he's pointing out is a problem. Anything "management" doesn't matter for an offline version, anti cheat is irrelevant, rewards are irrelevant, authentication is irrelevant and the server roles, like enemy script, quest scripting and so forth, can be entirely solved by simply releasing the server binaries to the public - you know, like how publishers used to do decades ago.

>>737131865
complete and absolute bullshit
all that crap is already implemented
just running in someone's pc instead
pure cope
you lost

>>737132841
And it will also be (soon) a right of mine for you to give me the files needed to run the server. Bend over or fuck off.

>>737133379
>t. the art police

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>>737131865
>le grifter meme
I think the saddest thing about you leftroons is that you're simping for multibillion dollar corporations for free.
If you were getting paid, alright, gotta make money somehow, but doing it for FREE? Jfc, just kill yourself. Seriously.

>>737133445
Nah, it's a product - especially if it needs to connect to central servers vs something a user can host themselves.

>>737131865
How come this never used to be a problem before and was infact the norm?

>>737133437
You didn't read it

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>SKG niggers are incapable of coming to terms with the fact that they could simply chose not to pay for Triple-A GaaS slop.
Skill issue.

>>737133384
I made this argument in a NieR Reincarnation thread the other day, half in jest. I don't really give a shit if other people experience the game I did. An exclusive nature doesn't add to the experience for me. I can't really think of a better example than that either because that is a game directed by someone whose entire philosophy is games are ephemeral.

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>>737131865

>>737133425
anti cheat and authentication are super relevant for 2 reasons:
1. the authentication and anti-cheat methods are often reused for sequels or other games from the publisher
2. authentication and anti-cheat is often third party and can't be legally published by the devs

>>737131865
literally just release the server tools when you're done with the game with an asterisk saying you're not allowed to charge for it
you don't even need to supply documentation, just shrug and tell then to figure it out

>>737133583
NOOOO YOU MUST ENABLE ME TO CONSUME INDEFINITELY

>>737133578

SHUT UP, NAZI CHUD

THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL. YOU LOST!!!

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>>737132472
Technically speaking, SKG doesn't lobby for it to be retroactive and suggests just grandfathering going forward for the sake of all upcoming games after the potential act is set in stone
But the EU just MAY rule out that the conduct was illegal in the context of existing legislation and customer protection laws and consider the conduct predatory and malevolent to the customers. And as such, they just MAY make it retroactive without regard for SKG. It would be so fucking funny desu, but it's highly improbable

>>737131865
Good. Make less games.

>>737133338
If you really wanted to stop hackers, you would get better results from exterminating the populations of Brazil, the Philippines and Russia than you would from any anti cheat program.

>>737131865
Mkay, release the server side as open source

>inb4 omg it's proprietary code!!

It's outdated proprietary code, the code Bethesda was using to bake fallout 3 is not the same they used on fallout 4 even if its on the "same engine". Like UE3 and UE5, big differences.

>>737131865
japs are the kikes of the east

>>737131865
>buy game
>play game any time you want
vs
>buy game
>can't play because the vendor said no
???

>>737132163
>Make pro-customer decisions
What a vapid low IQ statement.
You're not entitled to the work of others, and video game developers aren't entitled to your money. So try simply not buying shit you don't like you braindead consoomer.

>>737133636
What? I'm saying they are irrelevant to the players for an offline version. Remove them entirely.

Literally all they have to do is release the server software that they already developed and are actively running

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>>737131865
Most of those things shouldn't be handled remotely, and even those that are should just be moved to an offline application. Nobody is expecting a completely new game using the same assets. They're just expecting a game that works.

>>737133924
corpo rat :D

>>737134062
But won't anybody think of the anti cheat and authentication and rewards and and... !

>>737131865
So don't make an offline version, just make the game open source at EOS and the community will do the rest. Cost: $0.00

>>737133384
sure, but disclose it outright then instead of obfuscating it in an already illegal eula. oh, you won't do that because it will hurt sales? cry me a river then you greedy fuck lmao

Why do Europeans hate the free market so much? Vote with your wallet instead of giving away even more of your freedom to a government that hates your guts. It's already BEEN working, Ubisoft is completely trashed as a company and the AAA industry as a whole has lost hundreds of millions for poor anti consumer practices

>>737133578
Uhh... corposimp sisters... our response?

>>737134145
i'm okay with disclosing that. i'm not okay with skg

>>737131865
Force companies to release server specification once the game is closed, and let the community do a clean room design
Done

>>737131946
/thread

>>737133924
>You're not entitled to the work of others
except I am when I paid for a copy of the work, if I buy a book nobody can stop me from reading it whenever I want, if I buy a movie nobody can stop me from watching it but somehow when it comes from games I can get restricted
>try simply not buying shit you don't like you braindead consoomer
them they should put warning on the content like they do with ratings/strong language/violence etc. WARNING this game will no longer be playable if and/or when the game servers shut down
but that would tank their sales so they just pretend like it was always the case

>>737134147
no place on earth has a free market. everyone hates them.

>>737131865
I dont argue against bad faith corpocucks

>>737134096
>The mindless consoomer, who impulsively forks over his money to any slop producing corporations, calling others "corpo rat"
Impressive :)

>noooo it will take so much work to do this noooooooo
Unreal Tournament 4 has been taken over by community, which now maintains a new master server and is in the process of adding content to the unfinished game
https://www.ut4ever.org/
it was as simpel as that, same with ut2k4.
>no but
nah bitch. anyone that argues against it is a corporate plant. doing shit like this is EXTREMELY EASY for companies. you got fucking nothing on this shit.

>>737133620
I can't speak for other anon's, but for me the reasoning is this:

Copyright doesn't exist for the sake of authors, where they are temporarily given the exclusive rights to their ideas as a way of encouraging authors to make new works that will eventually pass into the public domain

If works are merely "loaned" to authors temporarily as a mechanism to foster innovation and the creation of new works, then why should they have a right to destroy it?

>>737133583
>>737133651
>>737133924
Actually, we are entitled to it, see above.

>>737133924
>You're not entitled to the work of others

If i pay for it, you bet your fat flabby ass i do.

>>737134293
live service games are more like buying a movie ticket. no, you don't leave the theater with a DVD

>>737134293
>except I am when I paid for a copy of the work...
Correct, but in the case of GaaS, you didn't you low IQ retard.

>>737134231
making them disclose that is a part of the initiative

>>737134349
>uhhhh you're a mindless consumer
>why?
>well you just are
corponigger :)

>>737131865
>it takes more time to release server software that already exists
It doesnt. Even if it did the extra work is negligible while making the servers, they should be designed to support private servers from the get go, not something to be patched in later. Existing games need to adapt.

>>737133924
I'm entitled to play the game I paid for

>>737134417
yes, i am in favor of that aspect.
i am against forcing them to make offline versions or release files to assist with that

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SKGcommies are in absolute shambles now that everyone is starting to see how subversive their movement is
DONT STOP SHITTING ON SKG

>>737133924
corporate cocksucker
if your car always needed an internet connection to turn on this wouldn't even be a conversation, just an immediate lawsuit and resolution

>>737134506
>i am against forcing them to make offline versions or release files to assist with that
why? genuine question.

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>>737134293
>they should put warning on the content...
Thank you for being another mindless supporter of SKG, proving that they haven't read the propositions and arguments put forth to the EU commision.
Ross and SKG, IN THE FUCKING HEARING EVEN, had a slide up saying that they did NOT want legislation, to force companies to clearly inform consumers of what they're buying.

>>737134360
"The community taking it over" is illegal and the publisher can sue them for it.

>>737134578
>Ross and SKG, IN THE FUCKING HEARING EVEN, had a slide up saying that they did NOT want legislation, to force companies to clearly inform consumers of what they're buying.
screenshot or it didn't happen

>>737134391
Correct, but in the case of GaaS, you didn't, you loot box addicted retard.

>JOOZMUTTSJEETSJOOZMUTTSJEETSJOOZMUTTSJEETSJOOZMUTTSJEETSJOOZMUTTSJEETSJOOZMUTTSJEETSJOOZMUTTSJEETSJOOZMUTTSJEETS
What do you call this mental illness?

/v/ is so contrarian to their own detriment it's funny and sad

So how long until shills start posting cp again to wipe the threads?

>>737132841
>the constitution
...of what?

>>737134426
>Why?
>Because you don't seem to understand that you don't have to give your money to corporations that try to sell you slop.
>AAAAA, I CANNOT COMPREHEND!
Mindless slop consoomer :D

>>737134394
>>737134403
these games were never sold as a "limited access"
saying a game is online only, requieres an internet connection, is an ongoing service, doesn't actually mean anything
>it's like buying a ticket
it isn't because nobody is selling it as a ticketz they're selling me the movie and 15 years down the line they come back and tell you to hand it over

>>737134621
>but what about the corporations feelings ;_;
epic can suck my fucking dick nigger

>>737133445
>>t. the art police
Is all art in your view a Banksy shtick of a painting shredding itself after it gets bought?

>>737134378
I've also seen arguments against copyright fostering innovation too. I think your argument presupposes that copyright is a good thing, which I'm not necessarily convinced on. Philosophically I feel like the creator of something is entitled to destroying it whether or not they have a legal right to do so. You just kind of can't "take back" commercial products like that. I'm not going to say it should necessarily be a different way but I would view iterating on somebody's creation without consent of the person as wrong. I even think it's fuzzy when you get into estates, Dune fans will tell you all about that one.

>>737131865
>Predatory "you will own nothing" enthusiasts running full damage control
Literally just release the files and let fans handle it.

>>737134062
if they depend on a third party setup for parts of it they probably can't legally do that, i know at least one dead gacha game that has a fan made server implementation that doesn't have the multiplayer part of it working yet because it uses photon

>>737134489
Then start paying developers that sell games, instead of licenses to GaaS slop fag.

>>737134737
cool but whom are you quoting corpo rat? i don't buy shit mindlessly, so maybe stop projecting or something?

>>737133924
>video game developers aren't entitled to your money
So why don't they give it back when they kill a game I bought?

>>737134578
>had a slide up saying that they did NOT want legislation, to force companies to clearly inform consumers of what they're buying
you're either brown, a corpo or both

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>>737134782
>I would view iterating on somebody's creation without consent of the person as wrong

>>737134575
>making an offline version
it's additional work that needs to be considered for every aspect of the game and stifles creativity. you can't make any server reliant mechanic that becomes "essential" to the game
>releasing files
reasons listed here >>737133636 along with the typical copyright issues of people hosting a private server and doing something malicious, profiting, or just misusing the ip

>>737134764
That's not what I was saying. I'm saying that SKG legislating against this, can also help loosen publisher control over dead ip. If this passes into law, the hold of copyright regulations will weaken and there will be fertile ground for re-examination of copyright law in EU in its entirety, which is what one of the speakers in the parliament also mentioned. This is why Babel media units have been on full alert the last couple of days.

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>>737131865
Plenty of people have decided it's too expensive to make a video game. Someone who would get pushed over the edge by having to make the game boot offline probably shouldn't be making a game in the first place. Maybe knowing that's required at all will make developers consider how little an online connection actually helps their game. This complaining is like someone going "If I have to make an offline version, I'll have to buy diamonds and a private island, too!" You don't need to do very much to make a game that already works online playable offline.

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>>737131865
All of these "reactions" to SKG reveal that they simply did not look at the proposals whatsoever. All of these arguments have already been addressed to the point that anyone discussing them has missed the point entirely. These people read some headlines and just assumed they figured it all out and posted their responses immediately.

These guys always talk about "shifting server-client responsibilities" or "reworking these systems to be offline".

EVERY SINGLE ONE of these responses miss the fact that this is NOT a retroactive change. These are changes for gamedev GOING FORWARD.

Therefore:

Anybody saying "it takes effort to turn an online game into an offline game" fundamentally misunderstands SKG and can be ignored.
Anybody who mentions "rebuilding" or "shifting" fundamentally misunderstands SKG and can be ignored.
Anybody who thinks games will need to be "redesigned" or "rebalanced" fundamentally misunderstands SKG and can be ignored.
Anybody who thinks only some games can easily "transition" to offline fundamentally misunderstands SKG and can be ignored.
Anybody who thinks SKG means that online games have to figure out how to run offline fundamentally misunderstands SKG and can be ignored.

SKG means that these games will have these elements considered in their design from day 1. Just like its a fundamental part of game design that every video game needs to output an image to a screen, it will become fundamental that video games will be designed to not be destroyed. That's it.

>>737134739
read the contract. you don't own your steam games either btw, you own the licenses.

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>>737134630
Multiple streams of his presentations with powerpoint slides on his channel, but sure. Here's the SKG slide where they said the same shit at the hearing.

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>hey, we want to own the things we buy and continue to use them
>noOoooOOOOoOoOoOoOoooOoOOO

>>737134934
TLDR for this leftist post?

>>737134878
>it's additional work
oh no? anyway refer to >>737132013
>stifles creativity
how?
>server reliant mechanic
such as?
>people hosting a private server and doing something malicious, profiting, or just misusing the ip
oh no? also "misusing the ip" is not a thing, hosting a game server is not using the ip. but also
>profiting
and there it is, you're a corpo plant.

>>737134947
Not in the EU, shill.

>>737134934
considering these things from day 1 is still additional work and consideration

>>737131865
This whole twitter post is bullshit.
Progress, Inventory, Enemies, RNG and Rewards are all built into the game already, those don't require an internet connection. If you built an internet connection into any of those systems, you're not a bad dev, you're an evil dev.
Authentication and Anti-cheat aren't necessary at all for an offline game.

>>737134908
>If this passes into law, the hold of copyright regulations will weaken and there will be fertile ground for re-examination of copyright law in EU in its entirety
sounds like an absolute win

>>737135008
Anyone opposing stop killing games misunderstood the assignment.

>>737135070
It is, which is why they are so afraid and suddenly "concerned actors" repeating the same talking points are pouring out of every fucking hole.

>>737132670
Why have kids if they will end up dying for Israel?
Why develop and release an online-only game if it will become completely unplayable after a while?

>>737134934
>All of these "reactions" to SKG reveal that they simply did not look at the proposals whatsoever. All of these arguments have already been addressed to the point that anyone discussing them has missed the point entirely.
That's because it's deliberate misinformation by paid corporate shills.

>>737135023
yes, even in the eu

>>737135063
It will actually be less work since publishers won't have to do tons of market research and hire business psychologists to come up with new and exciting ways to destroy people's property.

>>737135070
>sounds like an absolute win
No it's not you antisemite

>>737134957
but that doesn't say they don't want it or are against it. that says it doesn't fix the main problem.

>>737134578
>>737134957
ESL retard
This doesn't say they don't want the companies to do it, it just says it's not a solution to games being killed because it isn't

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>>737135093
>if you don't agree with me you're misunderstanding me, chud
>now give me you product for free, NOW!
Communism has and never will work :)

>>737135161
devs have been doing that before online games were a thing
following regulations always introduce additional cost

>>737135129
good think they're easily spottable so every anon can call them the fuck out on their bullshit
i'm sure gonna go out of my way to call these shills out, here, on reddit, on forums, in youtube comments, wherever i can

>guys like we totally can't do that way
this is always corpo speak for, we totally can do it but we don't want to so please don't force us to do it

>>737133189
Let's see who gets tired first, publishers of rising prices or customers of paying.

That's a game of chicken we all know the outcome.

>>737134782
>I've also seen arguments against copyright fostering innovation too.
By morons and retards. With the introduction of copyright the number of innovations increased by multiple orders of magnitude because it made sharing information more valuable than hoarding it. Prior to copyright all inventions and innovations were jealously guarded because there was no recourse for coming up with something new and every rich fat cat and noble from just going, "Thanks for doing the hard work, enjoy continuing to be poor." This was especially true when it took a lot more resources and labor to make things.

If you want to argue that modern copyright that extends until the heat death of the universe being bad, yes, that is an argument. Such lengthy copyright terms are practically just a regression to the pre-copyright days, but even with the retarded copyright lengths that exist now, at least it has incentivized people, companies, and assholes to share their processes which then allows other people to come up with alternatives. Copyright has been, whether cheap asses want to admit it or not, an overall good to the advancement of civilization and technology. Yeah, it's not perfect, but the enemy of the good is the perfect, and so that is no reason to just go, "Well, we need to just abolish it because it gets in my way occasionally and it is not a perfect system."

>>737135232
corponigger :)

>>737131865
I want to imagine he's just being disingenuous. It's better than the reality of him being so moronic as to write this and believe what he's saying.

>>737135159
Incorrect.
Refer to Directive 93/13/EEC
Directive 2019/770
Directive 2019/771
Directive 86/653/EEC
Directive 2009/24/EC
And the case of Incubator Ltd v Computer Associates (UK) Ltd (Case C-410/19) EU:C:2021:742

I will not spoonfeed you further.

>>737134947
>you don't own your steam games either btw
midwit gotcha take
you can't resell your steam games so you can never truly have ownership, correct and that is why steam and other publishers are currently facing a legal battle in the EU where it was ruled that a license sale IS the same as ownership and not only can access not be restricted but resale must be allowed

you could just not buy games designed purely to extract wealth before getting replaced with the new edition.

>>737135254
They will just be following government regulations instead of publisher regulations.

Publisher: Figure out how to destroy this game. (Effortless, costs nothing, as easy as breathing?)
Government: Figure out how to not destroy this game. (Literally impossible?! Dev costs will bankrupt us?!)

>>737135375
wait. does that mean i actually DO own my steam library?
what if steam goes offline?

Holy shit I just realized, this is all a ploy to get games for free. They want the source code released which you literally can't protect against piracy. No wonder the Japanese instantly recognized it for what it is.

>>737135063
It will end up being less work and consideration since basic things like "random number generation" can be on the player's machine instead of having a server figure it out and sent the result to the player. Either way, a business finding out it has one less way to be evil is not a bad thing.

>>737135451
All games will move to that kind of fraudulent distribution model, unless it is legislated against, because it has the least amount of regulation covering it.

>retrofitting
Another retard. Next.

>>737134782
I mean, I'm not just arguing that Copyright exists to encourage innovation, that's literally what the line in the US constitution that provides the legal basis for Copyright to exist says:

>To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

It's pretty clear cut.

That being said Copyright in it's modern form does a shit job of that because the terms last so long and fair use is so narrow that plenty of activities that use existing IP which don't hurt innovation are still illegal. I'm if anything pretty anti copyright and my ideal copyright system would have terms only lasting like 20 years and fair use would be way broader

>>737131865
>We won't be able to put anti-cheat and authentication in our offline version of the game after we stop supporting it!
Why would you need that in a single player offline version of a game after you stop supporting it? If the notoriously stingy and pirate hating company Capcom can release a full version of their live service Megaman gatcha then literally any Japanese company can too.

>>737134957
dumb esl moron
it says it doesn't solve the problem as in just slapping the tag on it doesn't make it ok
nowhere does it state they DO NOT WANT it to be done, retard brownoid

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>>737135507
>what if steam goes offline?
easy, just turn on offline mode first

Just make live service games have no one-time upfront cost. Either be free to play or require a subscription. The issue here is that you pay for a game that eventually goes away. If you make it clear you're not paying for a license but rather paying for a service this stops being a problem.

>>737135507
Only if you're in the EU.
>what if steam goes offline?
Most games on Steam can already be played in offline mode, even online multiplayer ones, provided they have local hosting available over tcp/ip or lan. This is not up to Steam at all, but up to the game publishers and developers.

>>737135512
do you know how useful server calls are for game dev? The Finals has physics and destruction done server side. that is the kind dof technical creativity that SKG is raping

Praying that Nintendo shuts this shit down ASAP if they dare to force Japanese developers to follow their communist doctrine

>>737135594
>>737135608
i am in the EU, thanks anons, didn't know that

When did video games become rights?

>all these anons defending corporations fucking them in the ass

what the fuck happened

>>737135232
SKG isn't communism, and calling it that makes you a shill trying to make it sound scary and hateful
You're so desperate lol

>>737135682
They started working for them.

>>737135628
>technical creativity
lmao

>>737135606
Misunderstood the assignment.

>>737135681
When we paid for them

>>737135723
concession accepted

>>737134510
this!! we are doing the winning sirs. fuck bloody basterd skg

>>737135682
nothing, it's babel media being paid by big corpos to shill on the internet. this is literally paid shillss shitting up the place.

>>737135694
My bad, "democratic socialism"

>>737135523
so don't buy em. things move that way because all of (You) can't exercise some self control for getting off the content treadmill. there's like ten bajilljon games you don't play already. why should we future proof new slop you're gonna never play again past a certain point? go do something actually good for gaming like play quake 3 or any other game that generates the good feelings you have been looking for.

>>737135681
>when did ownership and ability to resist unlawful seizure or destruction of a purchased product became a right
When money exchanged hands, under the oversight of government and force of arms that they keep.

>>737131865
>enemy behavior
Can we have a fucking conversation in good faith what the actual fuck is this retarded shit

>>737131865
>oh no if we have to make them available offline then sometime could s s save tamper!!!1
I don't give a fuck

>>737135775
what fucking concession? you're meaning to tell me rng done server-side is somehow creative? fucking lmaoing at your arguments.

>>737135510
>Holy shit I just realized, this is all a ploy to get games for free. They want the source code released which you literally can't protect against piracy.
Those poor companies, not making money on games that they killed and aren't making money on anymore...

>>737131865
If you're gonna complain about it then maybe just don't make games anymore retarded kike

>>737135813
>just voet with your wallet!
corponigger :)

>>737135805
Customer protections aren't socialism either.

>>737134802
Seems they'll have to stop using these third party setups.

>>737135860
>physics and destruction is "rng"
i've noticed every SKGtard is the most tech illiterate motherfucker

>>737135216
>>737135201
>>737135580
I'm responding to someone proposing clearer labelling as a retort to criticism of SKG niggers mindlessly consuming GaaS licenses. They said that it's wholly unrelated to SKG whilst showing this.
>We might b-be talking about SKG, but they didn't say that they never wanted anyone to do this.
This is not what they want from SKG you low IQ retards.

>>737135813
I never did any of those things and I routinely play games older than you, like Evil Islands. Online by the way, since they have functionall TCP/IP connectivity. That does not mean that I am willing to oppose legislating against fraudulent practices. I wholeheartedly support SKG and I implore you to cease in your shill talking points and concern trolling and save what is left of your dignity.

>>737133115
You gachaniggers are scared

>>737135510
for gacha games you'd still need all the assets too (and unless they include the source code for the executable you'd also need a way to rediect the server calls to your own server or a way to patch the executable to use your server instead of the one it originally used)

>>737131946
Just don't buy it

>>737135628
I was considering that server computers are probably better than the computers used to play the game and thus can do a series of calculations faster. Random number generation is not one of the things that's too hard for the player's computer. I'd even say physics should be done on the player's computer because there's plenty of offline games with a good physics engine. Even if that is done serverside, when the servers shut down it should be moved to run on the same machine that's being used to play the game.

>>737135507
2009/24/EC literally allows you to make copies of any software (videogames included) you have legally purchased, for your own personal use and although it does not legally give you the right to crack the software it does allow you to perform whatever modification is necessary for it to function as intended
so if steam ever goes down you are legally allowed to modify the software as requiered for your backup copy that is not on steam to function as intended (e.g.: be playable)

>>737136009
>spoofing api calls is impossible, it is lost technology

Im so glad this is making Mohinder put a gun in his mouth

>>737135921
>pay person $70 to hit yourself in the balls with a stick
>get mad and blame the salesman
>go out and buy the next hotly advertised hit yourself in the balls stick experience
there's no amount of consumer protection that can stop you from hitting yourself in the balls.

>>737135981
you said SKG does not want and is against gaas labelling, this is false and you are retarded

>>737135981
He's referring to
>>737135512
>random number generation
said a few posts prior in the same conversation. You know there are links specifically to posts that are being replied to?

>>737131865
I do not care. If it can’t be done then I’m fine with it being illegal to release. It’s guaranteed to fucking suck if they can’t figure out how to make it playable so why the fuck should I care lol, fuck them and fuck everyone else that supports that moronic business model. The only people on the side of GaaS are leeches making them and contrarian faggots whose entire personality is being an insufferable piece of shit.

>>737135968
oh right, thank god for server-side physics calculations, that surely wasn't possible before that ground breaking technology
retard

>>737131865
>WAH THE GAME ISN'T BALANCED AROUND SINGLE PLAYER AND WE'LL HAVE TO REMOVE THE ANTICHEAT. PLAYERS ARE GOING TO UNLOCK ALL MY DEAD GAME'S GACHASLOP CHARACTERS FOR FREE!
Unbelievably retarded takes from Japan.

>>737136143
>pay person $70 to hit yourself in the balls with a stick
but enough about your spending habits

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>>737135216
>>737135201
>>737135580
Here Ross saying that he literally wants to get rid of such license statements entirely because he disagrees with them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIfRLujXtUo&t=1656s

Thank you for proving that you're mindlessly parroting populist shit, and defending retarded e-celebs without even knowing what they're arguing for.

>>737136186
See the above and neck yourself nigger.

>>737133384
Yeah, like GaaS in general. It’s dying, I hope you took your own advice and enjoyed it while it lasted lol

>>737136254
>I’m fine with it being illegal to release
the market is already flooded with so much (((live service))) slop it would actually be a Godsend for them to just start making single player games

>>737135987
I don't give a shit because I don't buy modern games. whether they're forced to have infra tooling ready for release or not doesn't affect me. I'm not shilling when I say "so don't buy em." that's just being a responsible not retarded consumer. something I would like to see other people try for once.

>>737134080
Lmao I was thinking about that game as I read that post. If a bloated gacha game could do it, why can't everyone else? Excuses

>>737136143
it's extremely funny how you resorted to this retarded argument for like the third time in this thread, shill, just calling people mindless consumers unprompted, when they debunk your dumb fucking google docs arguments
you're painfully visible shill, it's extremely easy to spot you here. you will never blend in

>>737136094
Nobody here reads any fucking legislature, it is sad. SKG is only necessary because you would need to initiate court proceeding against every single instance of "oops money stolen" when a game is killed and you are left with nothing, which is exactly what the companies count on, because fraud on such a mass scale cannot be realistically opposed by individuals without government support, unless you just start killing corpo niggers and hanging them on lamp posts over videogames, which, while funny, would be an act of insanity, not because legal definitions and protections aren't already in place.
That was the most pertinent point Ross had made in that parliamental speech. It is not feasible to expect each person that got fucked over to initiate a lawsuit every time this happens, because it has become completely normalized. And every time complaints had been sent to the agencies that were supposed to represent the people to help them with these issues, the answers were ranging from "We can't help you" to "They probably shouldn't have done that."

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>>737135682
Astroturfing/paid shills by corpos and feds. Some anons are probably retarded enough to have their brains infected by it and start parroting their shit.

>>737136342
>toxotransmosis poster
shan't be reading, neck yourself

>>737133583
>Bro people WANT to buy poison, what do you MEAN you’re banning radithor this isn’t fair
Livestream when you kill yourself after they ban gachaslop FAGGOT hahahaha

>>737135819
>Can we have a fucking conversation in good faith what the actual fuck is this retarded shit
The context of the discourse on twitter right now is Nier Reincarnation, a mobile gacha game. It's not uncommon for gacha games to be designed contrary to things you'd find to be normal because the purpose of those games is not to provide engaging mechanics but to siphon money for numerical power in the game over as long of a period of time as possible. So it's not uncommon for those games to offload part of the game mechanics to the server specifically so it isn't really a local game at all. Indeed when the game is designed as a money siphoning machine it may require to actually make a fucking game first for it to become a real offline product. Which Nier Reincarnation isn't. It isn't a game. It's a straight line that plays itself and you pay for power to beat what poses as endgame challenges. People are just attached to the art, the text, the music that accompanies this sinister fraud scheme. Kill all gacha niggers.

>>737131865
>the initiative is only going to cause damage for the industry.
based,I hope it dies.

>>737133828
are you implying HUEs and Flips can actually program a hack?

>>737136342
lmao except he says something completely opposite there

>>737136081
not just faster, but consistently for the whole lobby

>>737136439
It's funny that they couldn't outspend Trump's retardness.

>>737132841
And it's a right of mine to force you to make it available to me or you get beaten to death in a jail cell

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>>737136476
>offload part of the game mechanics to the server specifically
That's not really a big deal. That's pretty much how many older games played. You were both a client and the server and when you played singleplayer, you were connecting to your own server. An example I can immediately name is Neverwinter Nights. This isn't something unsolvable or unique to gacha games.

>>737131865
>make offline versions of online games
Literally not what's being asked at all.
P2P has been used for decades
SDKs have been used for decades
If you design a game to be reliant on a server always being active then you have noone to blame but yourself.

>>737136342
>our problem is not with licences failing to inform people
>our problem is those terms are so hostile to consumers and the medium that they should be taken of the table entirely
>this needs regulation
dumb esl moron, you can't comprehend english stop trying to act like you do

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>SKG actually on the verge of being instated
>suddenly dozens of threads about how this is bad and communism and actually YOU'RE the sheeple for wanting this
Oh I am noticing.

>>737136464
>>737136470
>"Post proof of dear leader saying what you claim he said! I don't believe you!"
>Posts timestamped link to your favorite e-celeb grifter arguing for exactly what I claimed he did.
>*Autistic screeching*

>>737136548
>"That sounds pretty clear to me. Our problem is those terms are so hostile to consumers and the medium that they should be taken off the table entirely."
This is him arguing for getting rid of the terms entirely. So no, he's not cool with these terms simply being expressed more clearly for consumers before they buy.

>>737135939
Consumer protections are only needed because corporation protections exist.
Get rid of IP and copyright laws (trademarks are fine) and see how quickly you won't need consumer protections anymore because everyone will be bending over backwards to get you to purchase their product instead of their competitors'.

>>737136342
>without even knowing what they're arguing for.
Ross has been pretty clear from the beginning that what he wants to happen and what he realistically expects to get are 2 different things. He's also been clear that he's done all he can and it's ultimately in other peoples hands now. If he's going up and saying shit that contradicts his previous points, it's because he's been told that's the argument that's most likely to stick.
Nigger.

>>737136704
the best thing is that the arguments don't even make any fucking sense
>oh you want corporations to be regulated and for the product to be improved?
>that means you're a mindless consoomer!
mindblowing

>>737133924
>You're not entitled to the work of others
Yes you are actually. Society requires people benefiting from the work of strangers.

>>737131865
half this retard's bullet points have been in games since the NES era.

>>737136772
fucking lmao shill, he's talking about blizzard having the power to just unilateraly cancel teh agreement and take your game away

but you already knew that and are misrepresenting it in bad faith :)

>>737136427
>It is not feasible to expect each person that got fucked over to initiate a lawsuit
thank Christ someone in this thread isn't a retard

>>737136645
You're right. If ARPGs like Grim Dawn and Last Epoch can be offline and still handle all the millions of computations for enemy behavior, damage calculation, item management, etc. then surely any gacha game could.

>>737131865
Retard doesn't know how you can just let people host their own servers.
These people are a bunch of incompetent fucks that are getting paid for spreading such bullshit.

>>737136704
It's just other anons who think they're some propaganda whizz "generating discussion" by purposefully being wrong and trite

>>737135920
Yeah, the kike is the one that wants to stop the dishonest practice of treating a product as a service. Thank you for the insightful opinion Vile Shlomo

>>737131865
He's right but skggers just want to pirate everything so they don't care.

>>737133629
Also a jew

>>737136906
90% of gameplay related information is already clientside anyway, servers basically just keep track of your dix dozen bullshit currencies and gacha shop transactions

>>737136143
Look dude I have no skin in this argument but holy fuck you suck ass at writing analogies.

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>>737136906
I've been playing Grim Dawn in fact, with Grimarillion mod. It's quite fun.

>>737136904
do europoors not have class action lawsuits?

>>737136683
>Still incapable of comprehending that this is a response to someone stating that clearer labelling would be a solution.
You're unbelievably retarded.

>>737136902
>"Our problem is not with licenses failing to inform people."
This is the literal sentence before what you speak of. He's quite literally addressing people arguing for clearer labelling as a solution.

>>737131865
*10 rupees deposited*

oh, someone mentioned the nier reincarnation server reimplementation getting shut down but it wasn't and it's actually a lot further along than i thought

i might try that later

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How exactly would having an end of life plan for people to host their own shit be difficult anyways? These guys talk like the corporation will need to keep these games on life support indefinitely when iirc SKG just wanted it so corporations could enable private server hosting.

My only guess is that these corporations fear a dota 2 blizzard situation where the game gets sunset and then gets a second wind of popularity that they can't capitalize on to make money.

>>737137042
>just launch a class action lawsuit for 400+ videogames bro

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>>737135628
>The Finals has physics and destruction done server side. that is the kind dof technical creativity that SKG is raping
meanwhile, a game with fully destructible and physically-simulated maps with full support for p2p lobbies on an indie budget:

>>737136772
Why did you link to me? If you believe merchants should be allowed to sell anything they want then you agree selling radithor should be legal…right?

>>737137063
The story is rather easy so it shouldn't take long.

>>737137042
Retard: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32013H0396

And YET
SAY WORD
MONEY STOLEN
is just fine

>>737136704
It’s zoomer faggots whose only personality is contrarianism and dressing up their NPC opinions in 10 layers of irony.

>>737136427
>>737136904
Don't they have class action lawsuits in Europe?

>>737137043
>Still incapable of comprehending that this is a response to someone stating that clearer labelling would be a solution.
so someone says clearer labeling would be a solution and your response is SKG specifically said they don't want that, which they also never did
is that your argument?

>>737134654
its a shill tactic called a firehose
put out as much crap as is possible, doesn't matter what the comment contains

>>737131865
I agree with him on the fact it's not developer laziness, it's developer maliciousness. There are server emulators for dead games that got dmca, clearly showing the main problem for these 'people' is not allowing you to play these games at all

>>737137187
See above retard

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>MMOs are in a great place!
>But also SKG
Which fucking one is it, faggot?

>>737137097
Red Faction 2 had that years ago and didn't require some kind of advanced super secret technology. This is just bullshit and always had been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7txd9Ql8eg

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>>737131865
>SKG is the same as useful idiots pushing for minimum wage laws aka big corps can manage it while small businesses go bankrupt
I knew that government and corporations were behind it, i just didn't have the insight this dude has. Every. Single. Fucking. Time. Whenever i see a fucking movement, it's not grass roots, it's top down and there's some useful idiots down on the ground pushing for it on behalf of big money. EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. TIME. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

And the cattle still say it's "muh rights". FUCKING CATTLE SUBHUMAN MONKI TIER SHIT FOR BRAINS.

>>737137042
>just start a class action lawsuit anytime you want to play a game that gets it's servers shut down bro
you shouldn't have to, that's the whole point

>>737137130
In a sense this would fix that too, as you would have to left with an offline or peer-to-peer playable version. Then you could just party up with other word-sayers.

As someone who does software and server related stuff for a living, I don't know which situation is worse:
>Developers/Bootlickers lying through their teeth about not having an offline/internal server build of their game to do testing with
>Developers are actually testing shit in full production distributed servers.

>>737137250
>great place
now
>SKG
is about the future

>>737135008
keep trying, shill

>>737135819
Other anon named gacha but I also remember Payday 3 or Killing Floor 3 (or maybe even both) justifying their always online by saying the servers handle the AI
In both cases the AI was far more retarded than the already rudimentary AI in 2
So this isn't even a gacha exclusive thing, it's also a meaningless buzzword for to justify always online games. Maybe the jap in OP is retarded and doesn't realize it doesn't have to be that way, or maybe he's just repeating what his companyclan daimyo told him

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None of his bullet points actually have to be accounted for at all.

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>>737137107
Ah, you got clicked on in the storm of (you)'s I'm getting from butthurt SKG niggers.

I see that what you took offense to was the notion that you're a fucking retard for giving corporations money for slop that you don't like.
My deepest apologies for getting your retardation mixed up with that of the other retards.

>>737137338
I'm guessing it's the latter.

>>737135628
And what's the problem with releasing those server files when the game shuts down?

>>737132670
why not both? we're stuck with GAAS right now so leaving them up in playable but no longer maintained/updated state would be preferable to shutting down accounts idiots have pumped money into. then in the long run if the disincentivizes companies from making those sorts of games and do single player campaigns instead i guess that's bad because... it just is?

>>737137097
this is server side
>>737137265
this is not an online game

>>737137110
yeah, last i heard it was barely getting in game but from what people in the discord are saying the story is fully playable

i doubt it'll ever be possible to get my account data from the live game back (i have app data backups since i played on rooted android devices but hell if i know if those have all the data needed to restore an account) but just seeing how it works is usually interesting enough for me to try these kinds of things if i played the game before

>>737137345
you can't say games are in a great place and then insist they need to improve you dense fuck

>>737137378
It feels so wrong but it answers so many questions about modern games.

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>game reaches end of life
>SKG laws stipulate end of life plan
>players given dev tools and ability to set up private servers
>players do so
>years after end of life game gets a new burst of interest due to player created content
>company who originally made the game are unable to capitalize on this and monetize it
This is why they fear SKG btw. Everything else is cope they just fear leaving money on the table and would rather kill a game dead.

>>737137408
i mention them here >>737134878

>>737137456
This could be done on an xbox 360. You need to stop this before you embarrass yourself further.

https://redfaction.fandom.com/wiki/Multiplayer

>>737137525
BTFOd here >>737133932

>>737137124
>>737137247
Has this passed and become law? I'm not sure what 'Commission Recommendation' means in the EU context.

> The Member States should ensure that the party that loses a collective redress action reimburses necessary legal costs borne by the winning party (‘loser pays principle’), subject to the conditions provided for in the relevant national law.
How does that work with a class action lawsuit? Does every person who's part of the class have to pay for the millions of dollars or euros corporate laywers charge?

>>737137498
So jews and their Babel media jeet (discount jews) shills.

>>737137525
Somehow none of that was a problem two decades ago when it was normal for games to allow private server.

>>737137498
Basically this. And also "defending" their "IP rights". Because god forbid someone else becomes responsible for something good using THEIR game! If the money stream isn't directed entirely into their pocket nobody should ever touch the game.

>>737137498
If the games getting shut down then they're already throwing away any potential future monetiziation. When I hand my trash to the rag-and-bone men I don't get to be angry if they make some profit out of it.

>>737137498
>>737137748
SKG really is communist shit.

>>737137718
games 2 decades ago weren't designed around a server doing heavy lifting

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>IT'S EXTRA WORK!
Not my problem. Stop killing games.
>IT'S EXTRA COSTS!
Not my problem. Stop killing games.

I'm sure certain corporations could save a lot of money and effort by dumping their shit into the nearest river instead of disposing of their waste properly but we don't let them do that for good reason.

Stop killing games or opt out of the European market. Simple.

It will always be funny to me that there is always "government bad" posts alongside "muh IP" posts.
Who the actual fuck do you think actually enforces IP laws?

>>737137080
It is literally just corporations trying to make the most money out of the least work. I will never understand all of the cocksuckers that come out of the woodworks to defend these retards like 1.) gaming wasn’t infinitely better before GaaS even existed and 2.) I should care that it will cost them more money. Why should I care? Gaming has only gotten worse the easier it’s gotten, if anything I WANT these companies to fucking die so the only ones making this shit are companies that want to make GAMES and not “the service.”

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Which one of you windmill fuckers let this lolsorandumb chungus indian in?

>>737137498
They can take over the server operarions again, since the publishers own the IP at the end of the day.

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>>737137498
Correct! Holy shit, this is the first SKG nigger that has managed to figure this out themselves, instead of mindlessly screeching about what the think SKG is about without having read the initiative as presented to the EU commission or the hearing.

You've managed to put forward a more concise argument than even Ross and SKG retards at the hearing, who keep beating around the bush in order to virtuesignal to retards.

I land on the side of protecting the rights of whomever creates a piece of entertainment, to monetize their work to their liking. But I respect you in a sea of actual low IQ subhuman populists.

>>737137776
>I don't get to be angry if they make some profit out of it.
You don't but (((they))) do.

>>737137498
That, but it's also the thought of people continuing to enjoy SloppaSlop3 after EoS instead of moving on to the newest SloppaSlop4:EvenMoreMTX to spend more money. They see people playing old games they can't monetize also as a threat to their CURRENT shit that's likely just worse than the old one, which is exactly why some people would rather keep playing the old one(s).

>>737137853
It was so embarrassing I had to skip ahead.

>>737131865
Perhaps you should have to plan all these in advance when you make the game, because there's no chance the game is going to last forever.
As for games already released or too far along, you get some leniency, but you still have to offer an offline mode, even if it's stripped down and missing most of its systems.

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>>737137456
>this is server side
wrong
https://blog.voxagon.se/2026/03/13/teardown-multiplayer.html
"Our implementation does not use dedicated servers. The player hosting a game also acts as server for that session"
>this is not an online game
wrong. picretated (16 years ago btw)

how can you be so confidently wrong about two things at the same time? lol

>>737136013
that's what you said about concord

>>737137853
That's a Portuguese beauty, anon

>>737137813
Modern computers can easily do a lot of that heavy lifting.

>>737137373
So yes, you do believe a merchant should be allowed to sell poison to unsuspecting clientele because they were “stupid” enough to believe what was being sold was a legitimate product. Please kill yourself Moshe, the world would be a better place if you did :)

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>>737137493

>>737137853
This bitch was so cringe, it was rough desu.

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>>737137853
>europeens

>>737135510
>people can play an abandoned game that can't even be purchased legitimately anymore for free
what's the problem with this, exactly?

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>>737137959
I do not, but do keep fighting the voices in your head Don Quixote.

>>737135606
Yeah. There's really no reason to sell unlimited licenses anymore.

>>737137853
>Europeens

>>737137809
And that's a good thing

>>737137905
>I land on the side of protecting the rights of whomever creates a piece of entertainment, to monetize their work to their liking.
Too bad, by law creators literally cannot just do this willy nilly. There are laws around unfair contract terms, there are laws around cultural preservation, there are laws around consumer rights, second hand markets, etc. etc. etc.
There is no feasible way for someone to enjoy the rights of IP without also having to adhere to the responsibilities to their customers.

>>737137950
Shills are not interested in being right, they want to drive the conversation to confuse and misdirect you. It works well on normalfaggots, but not on autistic /v/ goers that can laser focus on a goal and not budge.

>>737137287
Nothing that you said has any bearing in reality. At all. You are eternally victimized and I have full faith you will always assume that any fight for better treatment is completely co-opted by a boogeyman to justify your incessant need to be the victim of conspiracy. Tragic terminal brainrot.

>>737131865
Japs are some of the most incompetent coders out there. Random bozoes on the internet make private servers out of scratch and those faggots date to claim that it would be hard for them while having the full indev documentation at hand? Dumb corpo bootlickers.

>>737137905
>toxotransmosis retard is a corpocuck

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>>737131865
>it actually takes a lot of time and effort to make offline versions of online games
LAN is enough.
You can simply not remove LAN from your game. And you're good!

>>737131865
>Listening to the Japanese
They suck corporate cock for free, their opinions aren't worth posting

>>737137498
>>company who originally made the game are unable to capitalize on this and monetize it
The anger is that they cant SELL it back to you again. They cant take it out of your hands or make it unplayable to force you to buy the newest rerelease of the same fucking game.