>>59102505
I started in Gen 2 and I thought the split already existed, I just went off vibes as a kid on what was physical and special. Thought the punches were physical and stuff like shadow ball was special.

>>59102505
what's even more criminal than the dumb and unintuitiveness is that nowhere in the game does it tell you that certain types are physical or special, for THREE WHOLE GENERATIONS

>>59102607
The player's guide era was a different time. At least they indirectly promoted players to learn to read back then.

File: 1702611784080043.png (981 KB)

981 KB PNG

>>59102505
Im a gen 2 nerd but i find both ways of doing it pretty decent. My only complain is how Ghost is physical and Dark is Special. Its not just the fact that its a stat issue but it also doesnt really fit thematically. Ghosts are otherwordly beings with no physical form and Dark type attacks is basically dirty fighting with punching, biting, stealing, feints, sneak attacks etc.

Sp Atk scaling Ghost would make Morty a lot more difficult to fight but im all in for it and Psychic type would also bump up more in power. Dark types dont miss out on tons but having them scale with Atk would be nice.

One pet peeve of mine is Hyper Beam losing its destructive status with the split since it became a special attack. Its totally understandable and in theme, but im still upset because Hyper Beam used to be the be all end all into one-shotting things and now its rarely the case.

Elemental punches are a bit iffy thematically as well. I too wish Hitmonchan could benefit from them more in the first three gens and yet here we are.

>>59102607
Lots of stuff simply wasn't told to encourage the sale of officially licensed strategy guides, that's how old games operated.

>>59102634
The weird thing is that a lot of the game mechanics are actually explained explicitly in the games, usually in the Trainer's School in one of the first cities. Gen I even had an NPC that explained which badges raise which stats, a mechanic so pointless you probably won't even notice it.

>>59102694
>wish Hitmonchan could benefit from them more in the first three gens and yet here we are.
If abilities still exist in a world without the physical/special split, iron fist could also have the benefit of using the users higher attack stat for damage in addition to the power boost

>>59102694
>One pet peeve of mine is Hyper Beam losing its destructive status with the split since it became a special attack.

Didn't they make Giga Impact a thing ever since gen 4? Also I don't recall vanilla Hyper Beam being relevant outside of gen 1 because of how many effective walls there were in gen 2, followed by power creep ever after.

>>59102701
>Gen I even had an NPC that explained which badges raise which stats, a mechanic so pointless you probably won't even notice it

Every gym leader told you what their badges did. That NPC was a recap for what they wouldn't tell you a second time.

>>59102505
Actually, which gen 2 Pokémon statistically made the most out of Shadow Ball's raw power? Where would Flareon's behemoth attack rank along everyone that could learn it in gen 2?

>>59102505
Oh no the mixed attacker hits a little less harder against the piss easy NPCs

>>59102719
It’s the strongest user of it based on base stats

>>59102719
https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-gs/shadowball.shtml
Unironically top tier the stabbies only ran 60 and 65 attack. It ties with Ho-oh at #1 for raw output. So basically only that and Mewtwo are better users because of being better Pokémon/Legendaries.

>>59102714
Yes, and it's still completely pointless.

>>59102739
An automatic stat boost was anything but pointless. Without them, clearing Yellow with your shitty underleveled starter would have been more tedious than it already is

>>59102708
That would certainly flip the table on a lot more than just elemental punches.

>>59102711
Yes, Giga Impact is the physical equivalant since Gen 4 but its not a very popular move still.
>Also I don't recall vanilla Hyper Beam being relevant outside of gen 1 because of how many effective walls there were in gen 2, followed by power creep ever after.
It depends. Not everything is tanky as hell, its just that in Gen 1 Normal types were generally stronger and also no recharge lole so the use of the move was more prominant. Im pretty sure you can run Snorlax or Tauros with Hyper Beam and still do well in Gen 2.

>>59102720
>A physical attack that drops a stat unrelated to promote unique mixed attacking
SOVL

>Psychic except it's ghost type
Soulless

File: i-made-a-hd-version-of-laughing-pikachu-v0-mcbxpd5vwjg51.png (27.6 KB)

27.6 KB PNG

>>59102774
>A ghost attack to counter special walls
>The special walls are normal type

>>59102505
>On one hand who honestly didn't want the elemental punches to be converted based on name alone?

Me, as I was that kid who put the elemental punches on Alakazam, and then went full ham on every trainer.

>>59102720
I mean, it was the only thing close to a competitive niche that mon ever got in the history of the franchise.

>>59102769
I had meant for the boost to affect only punching moves but I’m not sure if there are ate any iron fist pokemon with good enough move pools or minmaxed enough stats for it to matter much

>>59102505
Should've used the secret technique of getting Shadow Ball in RBY

>>59102782
Based, always expose their lies

>>59102505
>cannot do in HGSS
Flareon still learns shadow ball in gen 4 retard. And it has 95 sp.atk, it’s not like that’s unusable especially for one of the few coverage moves it has

>>59102719
Flareon is #1 unironically. No ghost type in gen 2 had more than 70 physical attack, it was so unusable for them that dark moves even without stab were stronger

>>59102813
Oh no…anyway

>>59102505
Or it should just get a physical Ghost move now

File: 1732732336355184.jpg (94.2 KB)

94.2 KB JPG

>>59102505
I like pre-split gaming because the movesets are much more limited. On paper phy/spe split should have been a straight improvement that fixed the oddities and expanded the options avaliable to pokemon.

In practice all they did was add a reliable physical and special move of every type avaliable to every pokemon and now every attacker feel the same and only their abilities and stats matter.

If there's one thing I dislike pre-split, it's that physical options felt way too limited. You take special, and for fire options alone you have Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Fire Blast. And there were many different ways to be a solid special attacker. For physical attackers, you want Earthquake, you want Rock Slide, you want some form of reliable fighting move that isn't just Hidden Power. If you don't have any of those three options you just fucking suck balls out of a straw. You can say go mixed, but there's plenty of these mons that going mixed is so bad, you may as well not bother.

>>59102505
Both have their perks
I think post is better, but it's definitely a decision with some nuance.
Pre, was an era where pokemon not being entitled to good stab and coverage was much more normal. Nowadays, near every single pokemon is entitled to an 80+, 100% accurate move, amd 100+, <100% accurate move in the preferred Attack of their types (often both attack stats). To the point, that stat/type combos that don't work are maligned, like physical electric.
Pre split, shit like Gyarados, with no physical stab at all, and stab on its bad attacking stat existed, and more pokemon were expected to go some form of mixed. I do think the game has lost some nuance from the split, but I also think a lot of pokemon that currently exist would be fucking cancer if they operated pre split. The split also did genuinely help a lot of utter shitmons like Mighteyena, who went from a joke pre split, to being actually pretty reasonable post.

>>59105248
Hypothetically, that problem would be mostly solved if the split had just not happened, since many of the currently existing moves would probably still exist even if the split wasn't added, so Fighting types would still have Close Combat or whatever. Earth Power still may exist, just as physical ect.
Fairy would be an odd point, since it would mean that there are more special attacks than physical (I mean Fairy is almost assuredly Special), and ever since Normal's fall from grace, special defense is probably too much better than physical, but, that was already kinda the case. Physical Chansey wouldn't be as good even as is.

>>59105205
>>59105326
getting mixed signals here

>>59102505
It was fine when EVs weren't a thing

I think the problem with the split was the evs. Remove the distribution bullshit with evs so we can have mixed attackers again

>>59105781
Based, natures too

>>59102607
>what's even more criminal than the dumb and unintuitiveness is that nowhere in the game does it tell you that certain types are physical or special, for THREE WHOLE GENERATIONS
This is the kind of obvious thing that Game Freak would put off an implementing until a future generation.

I liked when I put some attacks on gold silver and transfer them back to stadium 1 and the game marked those moves as illegal. Like Alakazam punches and Charizard with wing attack.
>>59105776
They existed on gen 1&2 but you could max all of them not just 2.

>>59102505
I have a fondness for the pre-split eras, both the Special stat and the Physical-Special categories, purely for nostalgia and enjoying the basic beginnings of the series; and even as funny as martial artist Abra or noodle arm Hitmonchan are, the splits were better for the games.

>>59102505
The 'mons are the ones that matter

>>59102505
Split is only a good thing and should’ve happened sooner. Bite being special is retarded.

It wasn't until gen 4 that the meta became reliant on stat boosting. The gamebreaking Dragon Dance was on gen 3, but the distribution was so poor that it wasn't a big deal at the time; especially since Dragon attacks were special attacks.

>>59107071
It wasn't special in RBY

>>59102505
>lust-provoking image
>irrelevant time-wasting boring thread

>>59107886
Lust?
Feck off furfag.

>>59102505
>include phys/spec split in old gen
>BUT keep the movepool shitty and moves weak in general
>good moves feel more like signature moves for certain pokemon
there, fixed it

autists that complain about the split are actually complaining about gen 4 adding bazillion new moves and viable stab move for almost all types making move choices dumb and straightforward, instead of the split itself

>>59108889
You can find Eeveelutions attractive. It doesn't necessarily make you a furry.

>>59109045
You could also be a straight-up zoophile.
Calling you a furry was the more charitable option.

>>59109054
Real animals are smelly, needy, and instinctual. They only care about you if you provide them food.
Pokémon are cute, expressive, clean, loving, and flawless in comparison.

>>59107886
It's just the official sprite retard

File: 1765146421878732.jpg (340.6 KB)

340.6 KB JPG

Being a Sneasel enjoyer in gens 2 and 3 was pure suffering

>>59102769
The reason nobody uses hyper beam anymore is because in gen 1 if you knocked a pokemon out with it you wouldnt have to do the recharge turn. They fixed it
Nothing to do with it becoming a special move.

>>59107874
Because it was normal type move

>>59102505
I liked that Dark was a trickster type that had moves that looked physical while being a special type desu

>>59110443
Right? When I first saw Pusuit, I predicted that it was going to be a staple for future games. I was wrong of course, but I was not expecting double battles to come and completely change up the format.

File: 1694886191666121.jpg (130.8 KB)

130.8 KB JPG

>>59109665
I think that's the joke

>>59102505
The split is kinda still in place, most types still lean more physical or special in terms of moves, and they generally match their pre-split categories. Electric and Fairy have no good physical moves, Fighting has no good Special moves, etc. The only one that switched allegiance is Dragon becoming physical-oriented.

>>59109798
>Types are Dark(Special), Ice(Special)
>Basically no special attack.
>Poor stats overall
>Despite this appears in literally the absolute last dungeon of the game.
I love Sneasel but I think they are a genuine contender for worst (Gameplay) designed Pokemon in Gen 2.

>>59110443
I hate it mostly because GW seems to forget that Dark types are meant to be special attackers.

>>59116675
Dark and to a much lesser extent Ghost also switched places.

>>59116691
*GF

>>59102505
Split was necessary to give some pokemon and types a fighting chance. That being said, special punches in Gen 2 are so broken. (Feraligatr+Ampharos)xGoldrenrod Dept. Store= EZ mode

>>59102505
>what are your thoughts of pre-split gaming
Giving my entire team the moves whose animations look the coolest, even if they're mediocre like Snatch. Because around that time I was still 10 and I still had fun doing stupid shit like beating the league 100 times so I could go to the moon and catch Deoxys.
I did find out about the special vs physical types eventually and I just found it nonsensical and never bother learning it. And I was glad gen 4 fixed things even though EVERYONE in the forum I frequented was assblasted about the change.

>>59105205
People who say this should be forced to play pokémon with mons like Lilligant and nothing else, and see if they still have good memories about limited movesets

>>59116691
>>>/tg/

>>59116708
When limited movesets are the norm it's tolerable, when having a great moveset is the norm outliers like lilligant feel like irredeemable ass

File: 800px-Sleep_Key_Art.jpg (110.6 KB)

110.6 KB JPG

>>59102505

I used to troll my middle school friends with a Belly Drum, Rest, Snore combo. Shit had me dying.

>>59117130
Yeah I also miss spamming Tri-Attack on a Choice Band Dodrio.

>>59102607
they told you so in FireRed so i always i thought it was in the manual or some player guide or something
Maybe the anime mentions something like that

>>59120594
Is /vp/ that much better?

File: oddish-only-v0-ta9ynbyetkrg1.jpg (34.5 KB)

34.5 KB JPG

>>59102505
Imo the games only improved since the split

Pre-split is painful because many pokemon feel misaligned
A great example is Gyarados, super high physical attack and low special, no usable stabs because water is special

>>59120625
You will click hidden power flying and you will like it.

>>59121774
That doesn't sound right

>>59120625
The funny part is that's only a problem for Gyarados because of GSC, which introduced the Special Stat split.
Gyarados was a rightful god among mons in RGBY because it had a Special Stat of 100 to compliment its Attack of 125, meaning it could dish out monstrous Surfs/Hydro Pumps AND nuke you with Hyper Beam as a finisher.
Everyone's true grievances with pre-split are actually with the original split, the special stat split, which by and large nerfed a lot of mons and made it way harder for them to function.

>>59102769
Hyper Beam died when Pokémon Stadium (JP: Pocket Monsters Stadium 2) nerfed it so that KOs still caused a recharge turn. Same reason nobody uses Slaking any more, giving the opponent free turns sucks. All of Hyper Beam's variants like Blast Burn or Giga Impact never stood a chance as anything but extremely niche win conditions where they'd likely KO the opponent's last mon.

>>59107105
Dragon Dance was still used on a few movesets in Gen III even without it boosting Dragon STAB, it's what made Tyranitar meta-defining back then too.

>>59118174

Anime only started following the rules in Black/White season

>>59102505
I like the simplicity of the pre-split movesets. Often times you'd have to weigh the advantages of running a suboptimal attacking move on a Pokemon for coverage purposes. While I think that there could have been abilities to help Pokemon out with certain attacks (ex: ability for Hitmonchan: punching moves use the physical attack stat), if you then get to that point, you might as well start just doing the split anyways. But to me, the pre-split system for attack properties is exactly why ADV and Orre Colosseum still has some pretty interesting developments and meta adaptions to this day.

>>59123600
no

>>59123913
I don't remember any of that at all, the BW series was so ass I dropped it after the first dozen or so episodes

>>59124045
>the simplicity of the pre-split movesets
Simplicity is the right word, they're pretty much all the same.

File: 1701622226685120 - pokemon flareon.gif (53.2 KB)

53.2 KB GIF

>>59102505

>>59125737
>least tainted by gooners
This is a win.

File: IMG_1659.jpg (79.8 KB)

79.8 KB JPG

>>59125737
>eevee 14k

>>59102711
Giga Impact just isn't as cool. You don't spend 3 gens hyping up hyper beam, just for a fancy version of tackle to suddenly be the better option for kaiju like Tyranitar and Gyarados.

This looks like the appropriate place to ask.

How did they handle porting FRLG to the Switch? Any nu-gen shit like the special split or fairy types?

>>59128074
>Any nu-gen shit like the special split or fairy types?
No.

>>59128074
Pretty sure it's just a emulation of the GBA games with minor differences like being able to able to access the event 'mons and no roar glitch.
But no. Physical and special moves still run off typing rather than being separated and there are no Fairies.

>>59128702
What is there to censor?

>>59128074
They didn't even bother adding in the animated sprites from Emerald, or finishing the battle tower from the original game files.
Pure contempt for the userbase.

>>59116675
Except for moves like Focus Blast that are TMs that tons of strong OU level mons get that give them fantastic coverage. Imo the split is fine and makes sense, the real problem is moveset inflation. When you play Gen 3 it really stands out how many mons have very flavorful movesets with far fewer 80+ power moves. Gen 4 introduced the split but it also let tons of mons learn more powerful moves and the metagame shifted heavily towards offense. If gamefreak cares, which they don't, they would fine-tune movesets. Like it makes sense that Ninetales learns extrasensory and dark pulse because its a mystical kitsune but Entei shouldn't.

>>59138346
>Gen 3 it really stands out how many mons have very flavorful movesets
Wait what? Can you name some?

>>59138346
Yeah I noticed even to this day each gen adds more move capabilities that make much less sense. You could argue that movepools were supplanted by abilities and new forms for identity but meh. Moves feel like they are the real bread and butter in that regard

>>59102505
I'm playing Fire Red right now and I'm going to try this out since you can buy Shadow Ball from the Celadon Game Corner. I always loathed Eevee pre gen-4 & ColXD because their leveling curve was unfun. Yeah you could teach Vaporeon Surf, but the same could be said for Lapras and Squirtle if you chose it.

>>59150884
It's actually really fucking good, especially considering the fact that you have Sabrina and Lavender Town to obliterate with it.

>>59102505
>Life before the Special Split
goo goo ga ga

Nobody but the 200 people in the entire world who used NetBattle bothered with this shit, or even knew some types were special and other physical

>>59150972
wtaf are you talking about?

>>59150972
Brock was basically the guy who demonstrated why the shitty birds and bugs you caught on the way to him all suck.

>>59102607
Nah, that's not true because Stadium definitely tells you in it's trainer school.
Anyway, it hardly mattered in the era of Stat Experience.
But also, Game Freak probably felt they didn't need to spell everything out and players would find out on their own like I did, through experimenting in the game.
Just doing things like hitting Alakazam with Body Slam vs hitting it with Thunderbolt and then getting your own and seeing it's big dick Special number would tell you that somehow, Thunderbolt doesn't work against monsters with high Special. Meanwhile the opposite effect of hitting Snorlax would teach you the reverse. So you could gather, that basically, certain types of attacks didn't work as well against one stat or the other, and you could also see that doing things like putting Water Gun on Rattata vs Water Gun on Clefairy made a big difference in damage dealt.
Gen 2 made it even more simple to figure out with the split of the Special stat so that it's less mysterious because nothing in the game indicates that special is 2-way.

>>59105781
EVs on their own aren't worse than Stat EXP because they help to foster some uniqueness among Pokemon, rather than everything just having maxed out stats. Through a normal story playthrough, your party will probably max their EV gains out and do it haphazardly, such that maybe you did end up with a decent defense stat on a glass cannon, or something. It makes it so that there's a larger difference between playthroughs for players who used the same species, it's just flavor, basically.
The issue was that Game Freak didn't predict that nerds would figure out how the system worked and immediately want to optimize it, so once that happened EVs just became tedium that lead to each mon only investing in certain stats, and it also rendered story mons useless in real battles (which they really should have allowed you to redistribute gained EVs in postgame from the beginning).

>>59143665
They were cool when they were literally signature moves, not just for a generation. And not power crept to hell

>>59150884
>>59150964
Okay! So I got my Shadow Ball, and my Flareon with IVs I can live with after just one reset... and I immediately remembered why I never tried this before.

>Eevee gift is level 25
>Level 15 Ember needs move reminder
>Flamethrower is learned at 52

Currently its moves are Quick Attack, Shadow Ball, and Tackle. Next time I play I can gamble my way to Flamethrower, but what piss-poor conditions. I can tell the coverage for gyms 4-6 + Lavender will be well with the effort though.

File: 20260411_072340.jpg (2.1 MB)

2.1 MB JPG

Aight, I'm gonna hit up the Name Rater. First dubs or higher gets to decide his name.

Otherwise it's Mozilla.

>>59160489
Burninator

>>59150972
>or even knew some types were special and other physical
Love how to zoomers 90s kids simultaneously were smart enough to figure out missingno. and various other glitches with just some free time and word of mouth, but too dumb to understand why there was a special stat separate from the attack and defense stats. We knew all of this shit because of strategy guides and gaming magazines btw.

File: Screenshot_20260411_122221_Chrome.jpg (461.7 KB)

461.7 KB JPG

>>59161103
I love how they assume that Pokémon is the first RPG we ever played.

>>59160489
Onaholeon

>>59102505
I play a romhack of Crystal that lets me customize mons within legal parameters and works with stadium 2. I fucking love pre physical special split pokemon despite being born after its introduction. I long for physical shadow ball’s return.

>>59160489
This is actually more busted than I thought for a campaign mon. Fire Red is one of the more tough games too, simply because of the EXP curve to AI level ratio. Gens 2 & 3 really were the sweet spot for this floof wasn't it?

>>59160489
Ted

To me it made sense that elemental type like Fire, Water, Electric, Psychic, Ice were special and types like Normal, Poison, Fighting were physical. I didn't play enough gen 4+ enough to know what is a good special attacker and a bad one. Just like I always played the later gen past 2 as if it still had stat exp and never bothered to learn all the natures.

The split really fucked with game balance in a bad way, but it was inevitable.
Gen 2 fucked up dark types and a lot of pokemons special stats
Gen 3 fucked up stats, EVs and natures killed mixed attacking.
So it solved a problem they created.
Also the elemental punches shouldn't be physical, they should be hybrid

>>59110450
What? Pursuit was great while it lasted, nobody really plays doubles. It's pretty niche.

>>59167591
Also the elemental punches shouldn't be physical, they should be hybrid

Or at least like Psyshock/Psystrike in reverse.

>>59171233
If we're on the topic of making the moves make sense its how it should be.
They really should just overhaul the stats again and maybe even get rid of levels entirely, but they're way too scared to change stuff

File: electivire.jpg (95.7 KB)

95.7 KB JPG

>bitching ass moveset
>Deals fuck all damage because lol no physical electric moves.

Then later it got powercreeped hard, at least magmortar can delete things with fuckhuge SPA.

>>59171493
>95 speed
>introduced at the same time as garchomp
It was destined to be shit

>>59171509
It lacks good physical coverage besides fighting so is forced to run mixed sets and spd is not really that bad for DPP standards.

Most hacks give it a physical electric move alongside iron fist and/or fighting type, absolutely terrifying.

>>59173271
Non stab elemental punches, good as it is most stuff on OU can shrug off easy and going for mixed set means less spd than whatever, motor drive only giving +1 don't exactly help.

>>59174167
Physical walls are far more common than special ones hence why magmortar have more utility or just press the delete button with choice items, both are okay ish for campaign but really need better abilities also buff motor drive for at least +2 or work like lighting rod.

>>59173306
They were nice to have before powercreep, so either buff them or better yet just get rid of the powercreep 'mons

>>59176552
That's kinda sad if +1 isn't enough anymore

>>59114820
>Victor has a gen 9 pokemon
Wut

>>59179506
Gooners gotta keep up with the times

>>59102505
That must be a really based thread that will last even longer again because there's only ever one single ESL that keeps getting offended by this reminder of how bad that entire "country" smells and how everything from that "country" comes from a beggar "culture" that taught that thing to plead for a thread to stop getting bumped and cry helplessly as it goes all the way back to the front page every single time

File: shocked-picachu.gif (30.5 KB)

30.5 KB GIF

>>59180315
OP here
What? I'm just an regular American poorfag who likes playing Flareon on gen 2 & 3 because of one move. Whatever /pol/ shit going on here is none of my business.

>>59139147
Cacturne

>>59180382
There's an anon who keeps necrobumping random threads with cheap replies, probably using a script. He calls others ESLs whenever he is called out.

>>59102505
That really is a based thread that will last even longer again because there's only ever one single ESL that's crying about being ordered to stop trying to speak English again and pretending to wonder why every single thread the usual ESL keeps whining about will get bumped

>>59167591
Make them Fighting-type with their respective element's added effect

stfu chapjeet

Can the mods finally do something about this little faggot for once?

>>59102505
And that's why the thread's based enough to last longer and longer because there's only one single ESL that ever gets offended by this reminder of how bad that entire "country" smells and how everything from that "country" comes from a beggar "culture" that taught that thing to plead helplessly for the thread to stop getting bumped and to cry that much about not being able to push the thread off the catalog and cover it up again

>>59181376
seriously that's gonna fuck with their coverage big time

>ghost is special stat
>dark is physical stat

Fixed gen 2 for you. Was that so hard Game Freak?

Seriously though. All dark attacks were clearly physical in theme for gens 2 and 3. The opposite could be said for Shadow Ball, Ominous Wind, and arguably Lick. What the fuck were they thinking?