Johto was dogshit and Crystal didn't let you catch Mareep.

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>>12487190

>>12487198
Was 2 really better than 1? Was 8 really better than 7?

>>12487206
Yes

>>>/vp/

>>12487198
Bro final fantasy peaked at 7

>>12487198
>>12487190
pic unrelated?
pokemon went downhill after gen 5

>>12487206
No, 1 is very much the better game. 2 has a much more ambitious storyline, but its level up system is terrible and every re-release has to modify it since it was so bad.

>>12487206
2 and 3 were worse than 1.
8 was worse than 7, but both were worse than 9

>>12487190
A better question is at what point do these games peak. A lot of even trilogy games the best is the second one.

>>12487727
I think most people would say gen 3, but for me, it's gen 2

>>12487190
Pic EXTEREMLY not related

>>12487739
Gen 2 for me as well, it's odd how gen 2 was universally accepted as the peak back a decade or two ago but now there are so many contrarians around

>>12487776
NTA but context around the games have changed. When people go back to it they're expecting something more in the paradigm of gen 3-5 or gen 6-7 when really gen 1 and gen 2 are kind of their own experiences. Also, you have different groups having different gripes, nuzlockers get get assmad because some other gens are better for that for example..

Pretty sure most people still are fond of the games though.

>>12487190
They could have easily phoned in the GBC and GBA games, but no. They completely revamped everything from the ground up.

>>12487851
What people are fond of in gen 2 is not playing it, but liking *the idea of* going to Kanto and battling Red, neither of which were executed well in GSC.

>>12487776
It was never universal. People who disagreed were just drowned out. I always preferred gen 1 to gen 2, then gen 3 to gen 2.

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>>12488254
gen 2 is the perfect example of "kids have zero standards so we can do anything we want"

>>12488349
My favorite gen is 3, but I don't get what's wrong with this. Explain.

>>12488349
They were so embarrassed they remade it in XY and called it Santalune Forest

Pokemon did get better and better and peaked with 5th gen. When they went 3D, there was a sharp decline and it was downhill since

>>12488446
Nah gen 5 was the begin of the end, linear pretentious bullshit with awful pokemon designs people only praise because of the PWT

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>>12488349
Route 37 is also pretty bad. Gold and Silver is painfully small. The main game suffers and Kanto is ass, it's just lame.

>>12488349
Gen 2 was pretty great when I was a kid who had standards. Like any kids that had parents who loved them, I could only play video games for a limited time each day. The daily events and chores really made the game stand out to me, as I could "play" even while not playing. I knew that each day I could get Kurt started on another ball, do the bug catching contest, or run into one of the weekday siblings to get a unique item. The amount of optional content is really cool too. It really felt like the world was full of tiny interesting secrets.

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>>12488465
Because the previous game didn't had bad routes either... at least you got trainers and berries there

>>12488471
This is the first game though, the hope is the sequel does more. The topic is "gets better" doing the same lazy thing isn't better. Also you exit into this route after doing the underground path, which was a clunky way to add more travel time. It should have just been added to the route. Gen 2 doesn't have underground paths.

>>12488479
>it's okay when Kanto does it!

>>12488254
>What people are fond of in gen 2 is not playing it, but liking *the idea of* going to Kanto and battling Red, neither of which were executed well in GSC.
Yeah this schizo is right, everyone just pretended to like gen 2. Kanto sucks and battling Red wasn't hype at all.

>>12488505
>Series that get better with each new installments
Effectively proven wrong if Kanto did it better.

>>12488996
>better
Look at this shit >>12488471

>>12488349
We went over this extensively in the previous thread so I know you will dismiss this because it's not your opinion but I was in my 20's as were the other people I knew playing Pokemon and Gen 2 was universally praised as far better than Gen 1. It was Ruby/Saphire where those who weren't hardcore into it dropped off. So it certainly wasn't kids just accepting it because it's all they know.

>>12487190
Gen 2 is the best one though

>>12489018
If you're going to ignore the underground path I can't help you, this is worse >>12488465

Just because something is "better" doesn't mean it's good. They both suck, but one did do it better.

>>12491257
That johto is connected to two other routes before it if we want to make stupid stretches

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>Best sprites of the 2d games
>Best UI design in the series
>most expressive creature animation in the franchise
>Only second to 3rd gen in terms of music
>Only game besides Gen 1 to have 150 new pokemon
>Broke the nostalgia pandering cycle by restricting all old choices
>Battle Subway
>White tree
>PWT
>Triple battles
>Rotation battles
>Charming limited 3D
It's still the peak, but it's kind of sad how badly the story got nerfed judging by the leaks and ratings. Same goes for Gen4 with it's cosmology and creation myths. In an alternate timeline we kept getting games in this style where the focus was on adults but kids could still enjoy it. It definitely had the potential to develop into being Persona/SMT adjacent, that's at least the vibe I get from the older trainer designs. Once we got to gen 6 it was a baby-only franchise.

>>12491639
>best sprites of the 2d games
Stopped reading there, they are awfully pixelated and the animations are atrocious

>>12491660
Seethe, the Charizard pose is more iconic than Gen 1's

>>12491665
So iconic I don't remember it unlike gen 1

>>12489069
>my personal anecdote should carry weight into new threads
bro, you're a fucking dipshit.

>>12487190
I remember gen 1 being one of the greatest accomplishments of mankind, like landing on the moon or building the pyramids. I skipped gen 2 but played Roby when it came out. I remember it looking kind of gay but it was super colorful and stuff but it just lacked some intangible quality that made the original so good. It almost tried to be too immersive and in doing so became less. I replayed it recently and it was quite good but nowhere near the original. The original also felt like it had a story. There was no way to really make a new story for the sequels, all subsequent games must follow the same general formula but with new Pokemon or else it just isn't a Pokemon game.

>>12491718
Gen 1 is so shit they had to make the sprite 3 times.

>>12491765
As opposed to OP's personal anecdote that he repeats as objective fact in the multiple threads he makes? No thanks. I don't care for history being rewritten and then gaslit.

>>12492023
Gen 1 sprites are way cooler and more interesting than gen 5 because they can be weird as fuck, front sprites anyway, gen 1 backsprites are a crime against humanity

>>12492082
>umm actually they're good because they're bad
Weak cope

>>12487190
1 & 2 > 3 >>> rest

>pedomon
>good
stop pretending to like trash because you grew up with it
go play smt

>>12492035
Get your friends who like Gen 2 to comment then, no one is taking your word for it. Do you get how 9 year old of you it sounds to say "My friends loved it!" OK? And?

>>12492671
Gen 1 front sprites are good, backsprites are shit. Both are shit in gen 5 and they feel like a downgrade from 4

>>12492947
Nta but it doesn't sound 9 yr old at all to rebut a broad accusation based on anecdote with another personal anecdote. It does however come across as pathetic calling people on the internet 9 yr olds over them providing their own experiences in a forum about subjective interpretations.

>>12492035
Yeah, the attempt at rewriting history is pretty transparent just another example of how /vr/ continues to fall.

>>12494072
>over them providing their own experiences in a forum
You seemed to have failed to even comprehend what is being posted. This is quite literally called hearsay in court. He is not posting his experiences, he is asserting the opinions of others. It would be thrown out as evidence by a judge because it holds no weight and is indeed a childish thing to use as proof. It's like saying "My friend saw bigfoot" and being mad other people don't think bigfoot is real cause of this statement.
>Yeah, the attempt at rewriting history is pretty transparent just another example of how /vr/ continues to fall.
It's re-writing history now? We're not just sharing opinions. Someone isn't allowed to share theirs while also defending someone else too? You're such a hypocrite. Pick the attitude you agree with, not the opinion.

Im replaying Fire Red; Rate my squad all approximately level 34:
Venusaur
Nidorino
Pikachu
Butterfry
Seadra

>>12495027
I forgot Fearow.

>>12494072
>rewriting history
More like rewriting propaganda

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>>12493763
>Gen 1 front sprites are good

>>12495016
We're on an anonymous image board so cross examination is impossible and using legal thresholds for casual conversation is retarded but even ignoring your disingenuous stance he said his friends praised the games as an assertion of state of mind which IS acceptable in court. It isn't like saying "My friend saw Bigfoot!" and using that as proof OF Bigfoot. It's like saying "I remember my friends shouting Bigfoot just ran by!" and using that as evidence for why you believe your friends all thought they saw Bigfoot.

Nu/vr/ is such a blight.

>>12497462
It's me you're talking about and it wasn't just my close friends, pokemon was a huge phenomenon when I was in university. I didn't know anyone who daid they felt G/S was a downgrade from R/B, it was universally praised in my experience. It was with gen 3 and R/S that I saw the casuals drop the series. I have always said that my experience was my experience and that someone of a different age in a different scenario may have had a different one. But consistently I've either been called a liar or delusional because that doesn't line up with your assertion that Gen 3 os universally seen as the peak of the series, something I think sounds absurd. But again, you refuse to say how old you were when this was happening which likely has an impact and instead "Nu/vr/ is a blight" because I don't just discount all my experience and never mention it because it conflicts with the narrative you're trying to push. This is why I didn't even bother chiming in for most of the thread, there's no point when your purpose is clear and you don't care about any reality. You are a child attempting to gaslight what I experienced as a massive phenomenon never happened because you were either in grade school or diapers. Fawn over Ruby all you like, it's no different than someone saying the FF7 remake is the true FF7 and the original was never successful in the first place. I simply have little interest wasting my time with such people.

>>12487195
woah, that's pretty fpbp of you

>>12487689
*gen 4

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>>12487727
>>12487739
>>12487776
>>12488254
>>12488334
johtarddlers were just a rabid vocal minority that wouldn't allow anyone to think otherwise, not even their kantyke older brothers
even now they're reducing every single criticism down to "contrarianism" as if they aren't fullt-aware how owned they've been getting in the discourse for years now

>>12492719
>smt
Shit Mostly Tauted: Noct-played

>>12489069
>this retarded fag again

>>12498765
I just want to know who the fuck votes for Alola.

>>12498913
Because it is better than Paldea and Galar?

>>12498923
In a decision like that, none of them are worth a vote.

>>12497462
he replied to you, experience his utter faggotry and keep defending it. He is not simply saying Gen 3 was bad and using his experiences to say it's bad, he is actively trying to denounce other peoples opinions and discredit their feelings based on his "friends" assertion. He's a problem and you're enabling it.

>>12497715
Dipshit, I'm not asserting anything about gen 3 being a blight. I was saying that other anon was off base calling people childish for using their experiences as anecdotal evidence for why they don't buy into the narrative of people only liking gen 2 because they were kids with no standards. I was calling the insincere and disingenuous style of conversation (using legal thresholds that are concerned with cross examination in casual discourse) a blight.

>>12499298
>He is not simply saying Gen 3 was bad and using his experiences to say it's bad, he is actively trying to denounce other peoples opinions and discredit their feelings based on his "friends" assertion.
He seems to be expressly not doing that in the most recent post. You're being a disingenuous blight again.

You are both wretched morons.

>>12498942
that poll had the least votes

>kids don't have standards
What's this retarded meme? Even as a kid i could tell a good game from a shitty game that sucks ass

>>12499672
read his fucking post, I get its word salad, but come on
>it's no different than someone saying the FF7 remake is the true FF7 and the original was never successful in the first place.
No one is saying anything like this. He is saying people are. Where has anyone said anything like what he claims? Stop supporting his bullshit, just stop.

>>12488349
And apparently what they wanted to do was cram the entire first game into the sequel for free to make those kids with no standards incredibly happy, as proven by your picture. And they only had to cut a few small corners to make it work.

...sorry what were you trying to go for here?

Crystal was the Aesthetic peak for Pokemon.
Most other things just improved, but Johto just looked the best.

>>12501338
Yeah it's funny how the Gen 2 pokemon animations look so much better than Gen 3, Gen 4 and Gen 5

>>12500113
There's 0 encounters in the GS Viridian Forest. It's just a path you have to walk through. No caterpie, no pikachu, just walking.

For the last handful of years, I've been emulating gen 3. I played rby (all of them when I was a kid), back in pokemania, and gold later. I'm trying out gen 2 again, crystal this time.
The sprites are so much better in gen 2. Gen 3 has more detail, but that just showcases flaws in design. Plenty of shinies looked like shit in gen 3, but there are some that I actually want to get in gen 2 now (like grimer).
Johto has more variety simply due to the day/night cycle. Before the first gym, I can catch rock, grass, ghost, and water types in addition to the common early route types (bug, normal, flying, poison). Breeding and dvs/ivs are simpler.
EVs means that you often have to make choices between offense/defense and also even between physical/special. Gen 3 doesn't have the quality of life features to accomodate that.
A lot of cool things were introduced in gen 3, like abilities, double battles, moves/items, but playing gen 2 for the first time since I was a kid is revitalizing and really providing a lot of what I felt was lacking into my playthroughs of fire red/emerald. Nuzlockes (in a foreign language that I'm trying to learn) for example seem more dynamic due to the day/night cycle.

>>12502004
Fuck, even the high contrast between the purples, grimer looks the best in gen 2. Lots of other pokemon don't look nearly as cool in gen 3, like vileplume, flareon, cubone gengar, and geodude.

>>12487195
What was wrong with it?

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Gen 3 brought the most retarded mechanics to the series

>>12491639
I think what held Gen 5 back from being really beloved is that most of the designs are really ugly. All the cool ones like Mandibuzz and Druddigon aren't available until you're about to beat the game.

>>12502652
>what held Gen 5 back from being really beloved
I haven't played gen 5, but I've heard it get lots of praise with people saying it's one of the best gens. But I don't know if it was like that when gen 5 first came out, maybe people started warming up to it as the years went on and the franchise got worse and worse

>>12502693
Everyone hated it on release but now that zoomers that had it as their first are vocal about how much they like it and yes 6-7-8-9 all suck more than 5 but that's not saying much, Gamefreak really got lazy since XY

>>12502693
At the time people didn't like it, but that was sort of a knee jerk response to only being able to use the new pokémon until post-game. I didn't play them until way later but in hindsight I think they're better than the Sinnoh games, but worse then the Hoenn and Alola games.

>>12502004
>Johto has more variety simply due to the day/night cycle. Before the first gym, I can catch rock, grass, ghost, and water types in addition to the common early route types (bug, normal, flying, poison).
People who say this kind of stuff never actually do the research. The variety always went up, from gen 1 to 2 to 3.

In Gen 2 you will have 8 type combos available across 11 pokemon evolutionary lines, before the first gym. Magikarp - Totodile overlap, but you could in theory grind it out to Gyrados.

Since we're including evolutions and grinding, RS would have 20 different type combos available across 18 evolutionary lines. How is that less variety?

>>12502061
mareep is half of most people's johto teams

>>12503445
I meant why Johto is dogshit

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>>12502693
>>12502708
Gen 5 designs appeal to a very specific niche. The western influenced Turner art combined with the aliased colored outlines means that even when they returned in Gen 6 they looked unrecognizable. Design wise I think you can pair Gen 1-2, Gen 3-4 and Gen 6-9 into aesthetic groups. Gen 5 feels like its own thing so it only makes sense that the demographic that it attracted feels completely alienated from the rest of the franchise. Even the UI design being all dark mode with grids and hard angles makes later games look childish in comparison.

>>12503570
Mareep is part of the reason. It's about your only real Electric-type option that doesn't suck and/or isn't locked behind Kanto.

>>12503940
Kind of a petty reason to write off the whole game. Lanturn isn't bad. Plus there's like 16 other types, having an electric type is far from necessary.

>>12503940
>>12503968
Lanturn, Jolteon, Electrode and Magneton are all better than Mareep in everyway, people only like Mareep because MUH EARLY GAME SHITMON I GOT ATTACHED TO

>>12503968
>Lanturn isn't bad
Are you living in fantasy land?? It's abysmal.

>>12504021
>Jolteon
Not available until Kanto

>>12504025
Water/Electric is a good combo and it has a solid movepool. It's stats aren't GREAT but are on par for Gen II and more than serviceable. Stats barely matter in single player anyway unless they're VERY bad.

>>12504025
You can get it with a thunder stone from Lass Dana in Johto

>>12504051
>in Crystal only
Which makes it not really in competition with Mareep, since Mareep isn't in Crystal

>>12504056
I thought your complaint was that there are no viable electric types in Crystal since Mareep is unavailable. Now your gripes with johto make even less sense.

>>12487195
MareepNVKE

>>12504058
>I thought your complaint
Sorry, I should have prefaced all this with NTA
There are plenty of other good Electric types in Crystal, just not Lanturn, that's where I put my foot down

>>12491639
>off-topic baiting & glazing right off the bat
/vp/edos are deranged

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>>12493763
Agreed

>>12497131
>Red/Green sprite
Man, you sure shown him, DSretard.

>>12492719
The average fatlus rpg enjoyer is just a female pokemon fan who thought the games are just dark, edgier & hornier Pokemon substitute and fell for all the nocturnebab memes, not that they actually give a shit about MegaTen.

>>12505389
What if I just like both series?

>>12501338
>Crystal was the Aesthetic peak for Pokemon
Sales say otherwise

>>12501409
>Larping moeshitter opinion

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>>12499871
>Even as a kid i could tell a good game from a shitty game that sucks ass
You have HGSS as your favorite, so i disagree.

>>12505383
All Gen 1 sprites look like shit. Weak goalpost move.

>>12502693
If you dig through the archives from when the JP BW rom was first dumped, the underlying sentiment was they hated how they had to use only new Pokemon and screeched about the trash bag and ice cream.

>>12487190

This is such bait lmao

>>12502693
BW was very polarizing at the time and almost entirely depends on how much the completely new dex appeals to you. B2W2 though I remember being really enjoyable, and that's saying something because coming off BW I actually wanted to hate it lol. I always wished they brought back the day night from gen 2 and combined it with the seasons.

>>12503759
I agree with this sentiment, especially the aesthetic differentiations.

>>12505481
Which is funny considering how many Gen 1 Pokémon can be described as "a ball with eyes" or "a blob with eyes"

>>12499672
>Dipshit etc

Fair, I barely read this thread so made assumptions. Don't really care about any of this enough to continue discussion, but the thought that Gen 3 is the peak of the series will always feel like surrealist comedy to me. So does the continued love for Mario, Sonic and Zelda though so whatever.

>>12503940
Water is a huge problem in Gen 2. Water is an issue in all gens, it needed a physical viable counter in 1 2 and 3, and still could have used a one in later gens (but we retro Ill stick to 1-3)

Water is just often an abundant type you have to deal with when going against trainers or in the wild. So electric and grass become staple types on teams. Gen 2 offers some of the shittiest grass types. Bellossom, which if you evolve it right away doesn't get any new moves till 55, and its solar beam, which sucks. Jumpluff doesn't get any grass attacks for 40 levels, and its just mega drain, which is meh. Sunflora is one of the slowest pokemon with low def, so the AI will default to using non-water moves on you, such as a normal and go first and do decent damage to Sunflora before it gets to attack the water type. Cool huh? Fucking piece of shit flower. Just pick Chikorita I guess. This leaves electric types. Ampharos is clearly a fine choice. Thunderpunch being an OK choice for a move, weird it doesn't get thunderbolt.
>>12504045
Lanturn? Water and electric, interesting pokemon. Solid movepool? The fuck you saying. A water type only needs Surf, which they all get and electric type only needs Thunderbolt, which it doesn't get mother fucking Thunderbolt. Fucking why?!?! Oh it does in crystal for 4000 fucking coins... Yea eat a bag of dicks kid. Stats do matter when they're bad, and guess what, it's Sp.Atk is bad.
Magneton is a gen 1 pokemon, but it's got a new steel type, so that can be fun, oh it also doesn't get Thunderbolt. How about zap cannon a move that misses half the time?

Water just needed another weakness. Poison, flying, fuck it steel, I don't give a shit.

>>12502370
I'd be fine with natures if IVs didn't exist.

>>12488414
This is meant to be Viridian Forest but due to hardware limitations at the time it was reduced to a simple tree maze. Gets the idea across and that's about it. This was changed in the remake where they made it a fully fleshed out area like it was in RBY. I'd even argue that between GS and HGSS, Viridian Forest got the best overhaul between games. Plenty of other areas in Kanto were cut down or omitted for the sake of fitting on the cartridge and many of these areas were brought back to their former glory in HGSS. Seafoam Islands was another good example of this because otherwise in Gen 2 thsre was no Seafoam Islands and it was just Blaine's cave gym.

>>12505370
>Can't rebuke
Gen 5 really is the best.

>>12487190
hard to say honestly

>>12502708
you're right about everything except BW/2 being better than XY; that is untrue

>>12498765
>posts dogshit internet polls to support his rabbid nonsense
not surprised seeing at how pokemon fans are all degenerate freaks. what the fuck do you care if other people prefer other games than yours? because youre a brain-rotten retard, thats why

>>12507578
BW2 has the best endgame of any Pokémon game ever though.

>>12510416
>MUH NOSTALGIA THEMED BATTLE DOME
Nah both battle frontiers are way better.

Emerald BF > Gen 4 BF > BW2 PWT

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I prefer the DS games

>>12511201
Not retro.

>>12511703
Yeah, its prehistoric.