Does it rub anyone else the wrong way when someone seems to genuinely like or enjoy the game, but they modded it to make it play fundamentally different? DK64 is just a big example, but I've seen this same mentality about other games. There's just something about a massive mod applied to a game that changes so much about it, to the degree they are abetted in playing a game completely differently than the original experience that annoys me to hear people talk about.

Sadly for most people video games are not an art form with a vision that should be respected

Instead it's more similar to a vacuum cleaner "i will upgrade this old vacuum cleaner with the much better modern one"

>>12610752
Kinda depends
>Game where the fundamental formula is good, but extraneous design decisions completely ruin it
Fair
>Game where the core gameplay loop is fine, but people can't bear to have to face the consequences of their failures
>The game doesn't respect my time!
The problem isn't with the game.

File: 20250827202502_2.jpg (544.1 KB)

>>12610752
Doesn't bother me one bit.
Now, if someone mods a game to make it easier, and they brag about how good they are for beating it quickly or doing some challenge, they're probably not someone worth talking to.

>>12610752
I agree with you. The devs could have coded it that way, but they designed it differently for a reason

>>12610806
I describe DK64 as the original Dandori game. I completely understand the vision and it causes me to get irritated whenever I see someone swear by the character switching anywhere mod. An ideal remake for instance would have a map and everything collectible you see would wind up on it, still no instant swapping mod. Would just be a bit more lenient in how the game is meant to be played that way. Not everyone has as great a memory as me, so the game keeps track of where things are for the player that needs to be reminded.

>>12610748
>tag anywhere romhack
You didn't beat it.

>>12610769
Even with your analogy it reminds me of something I was thinking about before. If you don't genuinely enjoy a game to that degree, why not just play something else instead. Something about forcing a game to play a different way annoys me a lot.

>>12610903
No kidding, that romhack turns DK64 into a knock off discount Majora's Mask. Where you're essentially just playing as a single character that can transform. That ain't no DK64 anymore.

>>12610782
I can understand that, I don't know if you agree with me but with Majora's Mask you get the bunnyhood and it makes you move quicker. I see no issue at all with having that at the beginning of the game. I don't see it erroneous to mod it into Ocarina of Time either.

>>12610798
I think that's the general consensus among most people. They say stuff like let everyone have or make their own fun, or play the game their way. However it annoys me to make large sweeping changes to a game, and to go about saying shit like "it's the *only* way to play!"

>>12610910
Considering the time cycle, thats just a light cheat disguised as QoL. Less offensive for OoT, but that still had timed sections as well. I was referring more to shit like the MMX5 fix project stopping the game from screeching to a halt with forced dialogue mid platforming.
>>12610798
Basically this though. People can ruin games for themselves, they're free to do so, but its not something that should be celebrated or to be proud of. Especially since it usually goes hand in hand with people who play a game once to scratch it off their "backlog" and then never touch it again. Anything other than vanilla removes all bragging rights entirely, unless its something that actively makes it more difficult like a kaizo hack or something.
That said:
>>12610806
The devs didn't want the game to be as padded as it was, it was an executive decision to make the collectable aspects of the game as much of a tism target as possible. Compare it to a game like MN64 where you can switch characters anywhere, and the devs used that to incorporate multiple characters abilities more tightly. If Stamper kept his hands off of it, DK64 would have been a much better game.

>>12610947
>I was referring more to shit like the MMX5 fix project stopping the game from screeching to a halt with forced dialogue mid platforming.
I don't really see this as game changing, that's incredibly slight. It's practically identical to my bunnyhood example.

>>12610947
>it was an executive decision to make the collectable aspects of the game as much of a tism target as possible.
Then the game isnt meant to be 100%'d except for autists and they are trying to tell you you should play for the clear instead

>>12610947
DK64 isn't a game about switching characters on the fly, that would change the entire dynamic and turn characters into glorified transformations. Each character has specific abilities that abet them into going to certain places and achieving certain things. Flip flopping between them immediately circumvents all of this intentional design. At that point, just go play something else, you do not like DK64 genuinely.

>>12610948
You never played MMX5 then. The prompts are frequent, can't be skipped, break all momentum, and the fox just makes them so you have to press a button to trigger them, which was a change made in MMX6 immediately after. Your example increases the speed scale of the player in a game that is focused around a time limit mechanic.

>>12610954
My point was more about how the game had to be designed around those sensibilities, so I don't disagree with you. Instead, its more about how it was a forced limitation that was placed on the devs by their boss because he wanted to force the game to be as far apart from Banjo as possible. I don't give a shit about character swap modding either way, just pointing out that those types of decisions aren't always the will of the people actually working on the games.

>>12610752
Nah I think it's cool asf

>>12610964
>sensibilities
Anyone who uses this word doesn't understand game design

>>12610971
Respectfully, go fuck yourself.

>>12610959
The time limits aren't a big deal, lets be honest. They aren't at the forefront, they're only in like one optional sidequest.

>>12610964
But Banjo Tooie has the exact same dynamic with Banjo, Kazooie, Mumbo, a transformation, and Banjo and Kazooie together. 5 characters, no swapping on the fly.

>>12610752
No not really. They are ultimately still playing DK64, just with less backtracking. Something like a randomized changes games way more, in a way that I like i should add, but still fundamentally a lot more than what people do with the DK64 mod.

>>12610752
In general I think people have become psychotic when it comes to "QoL" or "fixing the game according to modern standards".
Just Play. The. Game.
Play it the way it was released and enjoyed originally.
>Nooo but I have to backtrack! It's boring!
I bet all that "backtracking" takes less time than it takes you researching and applying all the fanhack patches to make the game "playable" because you have youtuber essayist syndrome and you think you are a better game developer than the original devs.
DK64 is long as there's a lot of backtracking but nobody is forcing you to speedrun it. It's fun revisiting levels with different characters.
My only real complaint are some of the mini games (not the arcade DK one, that one is brilliant and I applaud Rare for making it mandatory to be able to beat 1 loop of DK)

>>12611121
Still part of the core game rules, which is my point, and why I referred to it as a light cheat.
>>12611128
Yes, but the decision was heavily influenced to differentiate it from Banjo 1. Stamper's meddling in the game's design has been talked about plenty.

>>12610748
Why are autists so obsessed with 100% clearing a game they are clearly not enjoying? It's not 1999 anymore, they have easy access to infinite games. Nobody is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to 100% Donkey Kong 64.

>>12610752
The game is a fucking abysmal experience. If people mod it and somehow get some enjoyment out of this demoralizing piece of shit, more power to them.

>>12610752
No and I think you're an infinitely bigger faggot for getting upset than the people whi aren't having fun until they mod the game. Life is too short to do things in your leisure time that you don't enjoy, you already have work for that.

>>12611309
it's not that bad if you play it as intended
>>12611317
play an entirely different game then instead of trying to transition a game you don't like into a game you like

>>12611369
Or how about mind your own fucking business because you're not the police of how people play games. If it bothers you so much then maybe you should apply to become a SomethingAwful mod because your mindset would be perfect there.

File: OIP-292845795.jpg (16.6 KB)

>I played FF1 and 2
>they're overrated I don't get the appeal

>>12611379
Much like DQ7, I have in fact played every version of FF1 and still find it massively overrated.

>>12610974
You don't fucking talk to me like that

>>12611176
They aren't playing DK 64, they're playing an entirely new game where you transform instantanously and never have to remember jack diddly and or squat. You're part of the crowd I despise. Fuck you.

>>12611198
The only minigame I dislike is beaver bother, and that's because we know the collision is broken and doesn't behave the way the developers would have ever intended.

>>12611231
It resulted in a better game, Tooie is quite better.

>>12611307
I can't stand the new retro enthusiast crowd on youtube that insist older games are so much better, but then they proceed to leverage save states and rewind to finish all of them.

>>12611309
>>12611317
Fuck you. You're just twisting a game that I genuinely enjoyed into a facsimile of itself and enjoying the hollowed-out-enough shell of it to appease yourself. It's very hard to be as big a faggot as you two.

>>12610971
retard and a nerd at the same time

>>12611198
>not the arcade DK one, that one is brilliant
So many memories of this more than the actual game lol

>>12611309
kek good bait. I beat this game as an 8 year old without any of that crap just fine. zoomers are retarded

>>12611375
Nta, you're not wrong. Playing a game and enjoying it isn't the same as actually beating it.

>>12610752
>Does it rub anyone else the wrong way when someone seems to genuinely like or enjoy the game, but they modded it to make it play fundamentally different?
no. you would have to be incredibly autistic for this to bother you. what's wrong with making a game more fun?

>>12611762
when you also try to claim that you beat the game and not a modded version? everything
if you acknowledge that you beat a rom hack that's not the original game? nothing, have fun

>>12611762
>what's wrong with making a game more fun?
fuck you, you don't actually like DK 64

>>12611762
Good bait kek

>yeah i love [early fps] with kb+m, 1080p, and constant 60 fps!

>>12611309
Basically everybody who reviewed it back then, magazine or audience, would like to have a word with you about that.
You can of course be the special little snowflake but that does not change the fact that the game was basically universally beloved. Could be that all of them are wrong and you right, but statistically very unlikely.

>>12611969
I don't give a fuck, I've actually played through it.

I'm playing through Earthbound with a mod that improves the menuing and makes it context specific like most other JRPGs

Is this as bad as quick switching in DK64?

>>12612062
I think no, but at I also think that mod is unnecessary

>>12610752
It rubs me the wrong way but the line between light modding and an overhaul blurs if they don't go all the way with it. So it becomes a context based thing.

>>12612062
Quick switching in DK64 is basically cheating. Dunno about Earthbound.

>>12612062
The issue with the DK64 mod is that it fundamentally changes the game. I have never played Earthbound, but it sounds like a quality of life mod that does not change the core experience of the game.

>>12610947
>The devs didn't want the game to be as padded as it was, it was an executive decision to make the collectable aspects of the game as much of a tism target as possible. Compare it to a game like MN64 where you can switch characters anywhere, and the devs used that to incorporate multiple characters abilities more tightly. If Stamper kept his hands off of it, DK64 would have been a much better game.
Source?

>>12611309
You didnt beat the game.

>>12610769
The OP is saying literally the opposite though, disregarding the basic function, loving to mindlessly roam around inside the gameworld (ie. the art).

>>12612448
A retrospective with the game's director made a point to call him out specifically on it: https://www.gamesradar.com/making-of-donkey-kong-64/
There are also plenty of autistic behind the scenes videos that bring it up as well as rumblings from other devs if you don't feel like reading. Going back to the original point, what ends up in the final product isn't always what the devs intended for a game. Not retro, but most people who play New Vegas know who Josh Sawyer is for releasing rebalancing mods for the game, and he was the director for it. As much as
>just like the devs intended
is a meme, in realistic cases it can occasionally be true.

>>12612635
>It added another layer of richness to the discoverability of each new character, and gives them both a share of the spotlight and puzzle solving aspect that feels quite fresh," Andreas said. "The expectation was that, once you enter a new area, you'd traverse it with one character and see a different puzzle element. You'd think 'Oh, what would happen if Chunky Kong was here?' and it allowed the player to predict what puzzles they'd have to face with different characters and, in theory, keep the game fresh."
Nice self-own

>>12612665
I wasn't arguing against that, which is why I kept emphasizing my initial point, illiterate-kun. My MN64 example was in reference to how a game designed around quick swapping would have worked if it was intentional design. Stuff like the color coded bananas would have been designed for that type of game and not one where swapping was limited, while the core of the game was designed around doing so.

>>12612670 (me)
while the core of the game was designed around That limitation.
>just to clarify, in case you continue to misinterpret the point.

>>12612491
Do you have a reading comprehension problem

>play Mario 64
>killed by lava
>kicked out of the level
>"WHAT THE FUCK I HAVE TO PLAY THE LEVEL AGAIN? THAT'S BAD GAME DESIGN!"
>hack the game so Mario can't die
>make a 10 hour youtube video essay coping about how it totally wasn't cheating

>>12610752
It absolutely bothers me. People equating any sort of hack or modification with the original experience pisses me off and unfortunately I seem to be in the minority. I'm a diehard purist and I have a huge setup full of original hardware, basically every mainstream console of the last 50 years, and the craziest I get with hacks and mods is flash carts, old school cheating devices like Game Genie/GameShark/Action Replay, Region unlock carts/discs, and softmods that let me play stuff that I otherwise can't get my hands on. I even despise hard mods and reshells because at that point you're altering the console on a fundamental level and the whole point of original hardware is to get the original experience. Hard mods completely defeat the point and the same goes for hacks/mods. You can't play a hack or a mod and say you finished the game it's based on. Hacks and mods are for people who already played the game as intended and are looking for a different experience for their next run. The amount of people who will play some mod and say they beat the original game is infuriating but chock it up to me being a diehard purist for thinking these people are retarded.

>>12613285
Maybe you're realizing nobody gives a shit about your purism and it doesn't magically elevate you into being a cool dude worth any respect.

>>12613305
>t. didn't beat the game

>>12613305
Seething poser can't beat games as the developers intended. You know how much of a little bitch you look like having to change the rules to win? What a faggot.

>>12613329
>>12613341
Performative

>>12613351
cope

>>12613351
Lmao, just throwing around buzzwords at this point. I accept your concession you fucking faggot. Loved how you never offered your viewpoint and just bitched and moaned when an actual gamer shat all over your retarded, inauthentic playstyle.

>>12613305
It does make him cooler than you or me though.

IT'S OUT ON NSO NOW

>>12610748
You just need to pace yourself. If you are getting bored just go to the next area and collect everything you missed later, or better yet take a break from playing the game.

>>12612062
>context specific menuing
Doesn't that already kind of exist in the form of the left shoulder button? If it does more I don't think anything is lost.

>>12611585
And yet you're accomplishing it quite swimmingly in how you replied to me (I'm the second of the 2 there). I have never played DK64, I have no desire to, but people like you who genuinely get upset over how people derive enjoyment from a videogame, unironically need to get a life and quit sweating the small stuff.

>>12613908
oh fuck off, I don't care if you play DK64, just don't go talking about how you modded your games and they're so much fun now, faggot

>>12613908
>I have never played DK64, I have no desire to,
then you're not entitled to an opinion on this topic

>>12613373
>>12613908
Cope. You didn't beat the game.

>>12610748
>>12610752
>>12610769

https://youtu.be/kQ0SeRIjveg?si=zPhfbD4Sc2L-3bOn&t=12

DK64 kinda sucks it's fun as a kid or if you enjoy doing the same thing 40 times

>>12610752
when people feel the need to mod their game to achieve some pathetic ideal experience I just throw them into the zoomer bucket and I see zoomers as a subhuman lifeform so anything they participate in and share an opinion on does not concern me. Its like an ant carrying around a speck of shit how could anyone care?

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>>12614615
> I see zoomers as a subhuman lifeform so anything they participate in and share an opinion on does not concern me
t. curmudgeon

>>12610769
Graphics, plot and music are all art. Gameplay isn't. It is just a way to navigate through the game. Does it also bothers you if people walk through museums not in the line you want them to or watch movies comfortably sitting with popcorn instead of standing on their heads?

>>12614630
There's definitely an art to game design, perhaps a lost art you could argue. It's kind of beyond the scope of this thread though.

>>12614621
damn the person whos opinion I just said I didnt concern myself with just depicted me as a nerd. This surely will hurt my feelings.

>>12614680
>subhuman
>person
pick one you geriatric fuck

>>12613925
Who the fuck cares? Most people don't beat games anyway, how many games have you played vs ones you actually played to completion?

>>12614750
kek got'em

the tag anywhere mod is interesting because you get a clearer picture of everything else wrong with the game

>>12615127
whats wrong with the game?

>>12615130
NTA but it doesn't utilize the kong abilities that well. It boils down to them basically being keys to access the areas with golden bananas, and then you have to do something anyone could do like beat up the enemies or clear the bonus stage. It needed sections like using Tiny's hair twirl to glide and do some actual remotely challenging platforming. Diddy's barrel jets easily get the best use because they're versatile and are given interesting things to do.

>>12615163
You dont need to play all the kongs all the time to 101% the game, if you enjoy the tiny parts you can stick to that, or the diddy parts etc

>>12610752
No. It's just evidence of autism if you do. It's like getting upset that people play monopoly with house rules.

>>12610748
I'm having fun. Fuck you.

>>12615163
>it boils down to being Metroid or Zelda
interesting

>>12615325
Not real Monopoly.

>>12610769
that's correct
vidya isn't art
it's just digital sports

Replayed BK last year and while its simple and kind of repetitive it was enjoyable and I was able to play to the credits.
Tried playing DK64 after and I couldnt do it. Starting on the second world there is just so much backtracking and slogging around the map to pick up one fucking collectable for a different character. And the minigames. Always with the stupid minigames.

>>12616098
>Tried playing DK64 after and I couldnt do it. Starting on the second world there is just so much backtracking and slogging around the map to pick up one fucking collectable for a different character.
You played it wrong. You only need like 10% of all collectibles for the full 101%

>>12616115
>Make it more than 100% so autists feel extra accomplished
>Doesn't even require 100% to get it

>>12610752
I don’t think people should mod the game on their first play through. You should try your best to experience the game in its original format at least once. It helps you appreciate the mods/hacks a lot more, I think.

Lanky chads rise up

>>12610752
I think it depends on the QOL improvements themselves.
If a QOL mod adds quick saving, bug fixes, or loading screen skips I feel like that is more vanilla than a mod that adds skips to real gameplay.
It also depends on the genre of game as well. Some people would consider backtracking not real gameplay (me) but in the case of metroidvanias for example that is basically half the game so its inexcusable to skip it in those games. For something more linear though, there is no reason why not.

>>12610752
Does it matter if it's optional? I've beaten the game before and I don't mind using the Tag Anywhere hack on replays.

>>12610752
Is it a good change that's justified? that's the rub. If they changed something out of short sighted tastelessness I might be bothered but in the rare case where the community filled a hole left by the devs or at least found a justified alternative, it is what it is.

>>12616524
Lanky main reporting in

the original 3 tony hawk games are designed frustratingly in a way where level goals disappear permanently if you complete them a single time in career, this prevents easily engaging in any sort of comprehensive attempt at a level. I play a mod that allows me to reset the goals of a level for replay. Did I cheapen the experience by not playing the way the devs intended? or did I deepen it.

>>12617984
>For something more linear though, there is no reason why not.
Other than Metroidvanias, Survival Horror is the only genre I can think of that happening. Any other genre, backtracking in a linear game is generally just to unlock a secret ability/item/etc. At that point you'd just be removing prerequisites for bonuses.

>>12618027
I actually like that idea, Those challenges were always seen as a one and done type of thing, but being able to give yourself additional objectives like completing all of them in one run is a cool way to add a good challenge. I'll have to check that out, thanks fren.

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