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>>3945497
>who got given shoestring budgets and left to make what they want.
It is interesting they managed to somehow hobble along.
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>>3945689
You know how planar travel works in D&D? It's kinda like that.
You've got all these separate worlds floating in a weird sort of astral sea that you can cross with special Region ships that work kinda like a spelljammer ship, alternatively you can also just open a dimensional door and jump from one world to another if you're a powerful enough mage like Blouge or Virgil.
SaGa 1, 2 and Emerald Beyond work on a system of doors built by either divine beings or some powerful civilizations.
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>>3945968
This is yet another myth about these games, outside of a couple of exceptions like Slime in SF1 that are largely comedic or adventurer types like Gray who're explicitly in it for the thrill of the trip every recruitable always has some story behind them even if a certain main character might not see it, most recruitable characters are usually locked behind questlines too.
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>>3946053
bruh, just boot up Saga Frontier, pick a character, get to the bar or whichever place they lumped a bunch of characters into, and have a bunch of people tag along after a short banter and then act like they're close comrades in events immediately.
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>>3945497
I've been enjoying the remake of Romancing SaGa 2, but for reasons different from what I typically enjoy in a SaGa game. Rather than making stuff work with what you have, you're encouraged to minmax your build and create the most optimal party composition. I enjoy this type of challenge, though this is not something that any RPG fan, let alone a SaGa fan, would also enjoy. It goes against the idea of roleplaying, and for some, that's a red flag in RPGs.
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>>3945497
SaGa 1 is still among my favorite olf rpgs. The leveling can be wonky and sometimes your mutants rock and sometimes they suck, but that always adds a different twist of challenge. I love that the story is both simple but feels poignant.
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>>3952006
I like that when you get to the top God thinks he's congratulating you and expecting to be praised but instead you tell him to go fuck himself and then OHKO him by chopping him in half with a chainsaw.
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>>3952569
In short, it copies so much of Saga 1 and 2, that it’s “originally “ is thrown out the window. The combat is balanced, but the overall story is almost lifted with no real grace. It’s a mockup of 2 more than anything.
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>>3954884
SaGa 1's about a bunch of nondescript gonzo fantasy murderhobos climbing a tower because legend says that if you get to the top you'll enter Heaven, meet the Big G himself and he'll grant you a wish, allegedly.
Said tower is not only a gruesome dungeon filled with monsters but it also has doors that lead to various worlds, the story is surprisingly good for a game so old and simple so I won't spoiler you the fine details, it's best to experience it for yourself so you see what all the fuss is about.
>it’s like Final Fantasy but if it stayed it’s classical self
It depends on what you mean by classical self because most people consider FF4-10 to be classical FF and SaGa has nothing to do with that.
Kawazu was the main designer for the first two Final Fantasy and SaGa branches off those two titles in particular, it polishes and greatly expands FF2's character building system while also keeping the focus on party building and non invasive main story of the first FF, there's a lot of other recurring elements and tropes from the first two FF games that Kawazu loves like pirates, fairies, emperors etc. but overall SaGa goes in a very different direction, FF focuses more and more on the spectacle, accessibility and grand narrative while SaGa keeps experimenting with complex systems, non linear world building and fuckhuge casts of characters.
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>>3954974
They had to cut a lot of content because Nintendo didn't give them a bigger cartridge, to some degree this was fixed in the Wonderswan remaster but Minstrel Song (remastered) is the definitive version of the game with all the intended content and more.
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>>3950533
How could rs3 and ff2 leveling be improved?
>>3954984
Not playing bobbly head. The modern saga games like emerald are unplayable for me. I doubt they will make the rs3 remake good. The rs2 remake is much worse than the source.
>>3948323
Am on my third rs3 run. Never beat all secret bosses nor the mikhail mini game. What's the reward for the latter? I think I need 800hp for the super bosses, where to get? Nothing to find online for this game.
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>>3955453
>none of them are memorable
Really? I thought a ton of them are memorable. Literally every protagonist in SaGa Frontier and it's sequel alone were memorable.
>has as much depth as FF characters
Not true if you aren't spoiled by voice-acted cutscenes and drama, the characters in SaGa Scarlet Grace are actually really dynamic and well written, same for SaGa Frontier 2... Hell there's even a lot of interesting stuff going on in the background of Minstrel Song.
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>>3956987
Frontier is an easy one to start with and many recommend it for your first Saga game.
Minstrel Song is the one I started with and it was incredible, but it could be a bit overwhelming for a first game.
Saga 1 is a lot of fun, it's very simple and easy to understand, just dont make something like a 4-Mutant party until you understand the game more. It was also ported to the Wonderswan if that interests you.
Honestly it depends on which one catches your eye more, these games are not very long and theyre extremely replayable so the time investment isnt big if you just intend to play each of them once.
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>>3945742
>>3945750
Dont listen to him. Saga Frontier is pure magic. Every single character experience. It's amazing. Just block the light take a week off and consume the magic. You might have to take breaks between 6-12 hr sessions I did it right after launch as a kid during a 3 month summer break from school.
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>>3956987
IMO the only two games you might not want to start with are Minstrel Song and Scarlet Grace, the former because it's very mechanically dense and sort of a collection of mechanics from nearly ever game that came out before that, the latter because it's a very different format compared to every previous game and doesn't do a great job at immediately showcasing the series' strong points like other entries, both are more oriented towards the hardcore side of the userbase, they also have a lot more cameos and throwbacks to older games than everything else on your list if that's a problem to you.
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I got the RS2 Remake on sale and started it as my first SaGa experience
Fantastic so far
I really enjoy the openness of it all, but the tutorialization they added is just enough to explain concepts which I believe translate somewhat to other titles
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>>3952373
I looked it up and quite like the idea, but wish they hadn't also tried to mimic the gameboy graphics style. Not to say I'd need it to be a full HD graphics fest, but the aesthetic of the old SaGa games are the least appealing thing about them for me and it feels a little lazy. Still, going to put it on my list of it ever comes to Switch or I eventually get a steam deck.
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>>3964859
Dragon Stance is worth using too if you're using shields. Otherwise, yeah, just stick to those formations. Amazon Raid can be obtained as early as the 1st or 2nd timeskip assuming you cleared the Canal Fortress and made any female emperor (Preferably City Thief/Vagabond F because they have the Wild flag which is necessary for the Armed Merchant quest), and then go to the Amazon Village in Salamat to recruit the Amazon.
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>>3964780
SaGa's recurring thing is innovation so there's that.
And let's be real here, if they actually had some fucking budget to spend in other areas of the games like they did in the past they'd do it, look at Romancing SaGa 2 or 3, the design of games like SSG or EB is a product of severe budget constraints rather than misguided focus.
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>>3965248
i get that games are more expensive to dev now and JRPGs peak popularity is joeover, but it still cost a ton of money to keep online mobage shit online and "live". also the mobage games are obviously focusing on nostalgia bucks rather than quality or graphix.
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>>3965347
Despite making ridiculous amounts of cash in its heyday RSRS always costed literal peanuts to maintain and develop for, it's partly why SE tried to push it even in the west for a whole three and a half years, that shit made crazy dosh at basically zero costs to the point GL servers piggybacked entirely on JP's profit until JP sizzled down.
The real outrage is that most of the money RSRS made went directly into SE coffers to fund unrelated trash and the games proper got fucking nothing to work with, and it stings even more to think this would happen when Kawazu is near retirement.
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>>3964932
I killed him fourth and he absolutely crushed me until I just gave up and just went hyper aggressive
Rosebouquet, third one, was so easy compared to this
I'm gonna get Subier next and it seems I powered him up by killing the narwhal boss
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>>3965644
>>3965652
https://fantasyanime.com/games
https://fantasyanime.com/saga/sagafront.htm
Fantasyanime RPG shrines have been online for ages, zoomzooms.
the "walkthroughs" link just goes to the Gfaqs page though. someone should archive those before Fandom kills that websight. read the "mechanics" FAQ for max autistism and optimisation.
>inb5 banned for deadnaming a ded websight.
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>>3965325
The time skip will trigger if you've gained enough battles and event points. You have to skip the Canal Fortress and go south. Then, make sure you don't have 240 battles or more, as that will trigger a time skip. Even with less than 240 battles, it will trigger a time skip if the remainder of your generational battles / 16 is less than the event points you've accumulated so far, excluding the event points you got from a quest you just completed.
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>>3965773
Some bug fixes, I belive Romancing SaGa 2 added in a scale to check weight and another one for logic. There's also an added optional dungeon for Romancing SaGa 2 and 3. I never touched them since they weren't part of the original releases, but those dungeons can contain stronger monsters to power level better, items, classes, or even expand upon certain characters stories.
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>>3965773
Faster animations, HD backgrounds, bug fixes, added content. Only reason to play the SFC version is if you want to see what the original backgrounds look like as well as knowing Japanese. Translation patches for the game are incomplete.
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>>3965773
>New backgrounds
>More info in the UI when it comes to commands and formations
>More save slots
>A journal function
>Comprehensive bugfixes even though there's also a couple of new bugs
>NG+ function
>New content, and the option to play with or without it
To be more specific on the last point, RS2 adds two new classes and a dungeons+items that were originally cut in the SNES version but added in the old mobile port, the remaster adds a new small endgame questline on top.
RS3 adds a new dungeon with new items and some restored enemies that were originally cut and dummied out in the SNES release, this optional dungeon has content that also expands on some characters' stories.
Everything else is the exact same as the original releases including game balance outside of some bugfixes like RS2 Wind Cutter being bugged in the original and working as intended in the remaster, as the others already mentioned they make the original releases obsolete outside of the new backgrounds which are questionable but not terrible.
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>>3966340
I would say the RS2 backgrounds are outright better then the original's outside of the very last area which feels a bit RPGmaker tier. RS3 it's a bit more mixed since RS3 has a lot more production compared to 2.
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>>3966340
>backgrounds which are questionable but not terrible
I always wondered what was the big idea behind it? Making the backgrounds blend in with thr sprites couldn't be that hard as in costly. Why did the fail this bad?
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>>3966340
Actually I did forget one thing they changed, RS2 no longer has the visual filter when you dash, I always forget that.
>>3967595
If you look at them closely you can see they're actually pixelated rather than being fully smooth like the Suikoden 2 remaster, so there was at least an attempt at making something that could blend with the sprites.
As to why it largely failed I suppose it was a combination of Artepiazza being new to Unity development at the time, the Vita's odd internal resolution and the low budget.
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>>3967740
Wasn't romancing saga always just the R&D of square? When some personnel had some spare time between blockbuster entries, they went to the saga team. That's what I remember reading. Would make sense, as the games are unfinished messes.
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>>3945497
I played SaGa Frontier and replayed SaGa Frontier 2 recently, and I had a blast with both of them, though they are very different kinds of stories. Tried playing some other SaGa games though and none of them really captured me.
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>>3971482
I suggest picking up the evasion tech for Flowing Slash. You can get it from Sefirah. Having a Fire Wall user also helps. Other evasion techs worthy of note is Skewer, Plasma Thrust and Divine Lancer, though the latter two can only be found on one of the Seven Heroes.
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I started the pc port of romancing saga minstrel song recently, no experience with the franchise (I played hat world which has glimmer and stat growth without levels I guess). Any tips or anything I should know? I'm doing albert first and got walled pretty hard by the boss in the cave in valhalland (the one with like 5 adds). I ended up managing to beat it because Sif glimmered a good skill and 2 shot the boss but albert himself is a completely useless medkit bitch at the moment.. I'm aware grinding makes the enemies stronger so I haven't killed any random mobs. If nothing else I'd like to know at least if its safe to invest in the side characters or if I'll lose them in some event and get softlocked with 50hp prince hitting mobs for 1% of their hp.
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>>3974431
characters with profession names are mercenary characters and will disappear from bars halfway into the game. so dont invest in that valhallan warrior too much. they're early game filler members. you can use them the entire game if you want but if you dismiss them you wont be able to recruit them back in late game.
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>>3974431
MS is very complex so it's hard to give people a comprehensive primer, to address what you've written though:
Fights in MS can be tough because bosses tend to hit hard and shut you down fast if you don't know how to play, remember that status effects, buffs and debuffs are all extremely powerful and you should use them, combos, classes and equipment are all extremely important as well but that's way too much to talk about in a single post.
Grinding shouldn't be avoided because it makes enemies stronger, it should be avoided until the endgame because the game's world is on a clock and fighting makes the clock tick, so certain questlines will autosolve before you're able to take them and you end up missing on dungeons, story and rewards, the game wants you to fight but do it intelligently, if you avoid everything on your road to a boss fight then you'll be way too weak to win because you won't be able to get better stats and most importantly learn new techs so do fight but don't actively grind.
Speaking of Albert, he starts weak compared to people like Sif or Hawke but he grows pretty quickly to compensate, Sif is there to carry you in the very early game so don't worry if Albert feels weak early.
I do suggest you to decide on what Albert is going to do and focus on that because SaGa's systems inherently reward focused builds, the game gives you stats depending on what actions you take during fights and since you have to manage the number of fights you get into it's best to focus on a specific set of non-conflicting actions to maximize growth economy until the endgame when you'll be free to fight and grind as much as you like.
That means if you want Albert to be a weapon user decide between STR (Great swords or Axes) and DEX focused weapons (short swords or bows), if you want Albert to be a caster focus on INT or COM (Pyrology and Hydrology respectively for instance) growth with maybe some DEX on the side since unlike STR it has growth synergy with INT/COM.
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>>3945497
I always found it strange that this series has such lukewarm reception in the west. You would think the non-linearity and freedom would make the games appealing but I guess the expectation of JRPGs are pigeonholed to be linear, cinematic affairs like FF
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>>3976441
The originals, as Final Fantasy Legend, did pretty well.
Romancing series flat out wasn't brought over until the remaster and 2 never got a complete fan translation.
The others... were wonky enough to be a quick turnoff, and the series' visual aesthetic deteriorated into typical anime nonsense over time.
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I've dismissed all these as being garbage since I've played several of them. Are there any hacks that attempt to fix the main issue they have where fighting battles makes the game harder?
These are basically anti-rpgs.
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>>3977149
>These are basically anti-rpgs.
These games are heavily modeled after tabletop RPGs and were designed by a huge tabletop RPG autist hence why shit like dynamic encounters exists in the first place.
If you want a game where you can just mindlessly grind and diminish any sort of challenge then go play literally any other JRPG.
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>>3957179
SaGa Frontier 1 is so good it makes me upset that 99% of humans are filtered by it. a camera rotating around a prerendered environment with 2D sprites is perfection, every time you spark deflect or kasumi is kino, gen joining your party over and over and over is so good. 28 years later i can't even put into words how good this game is.
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Only one I've played was SaGa 2 on the DS remake.
Man that game had some... weirdly intricate mechanics. Like, I've never had to write myself an Excel spreadsheet while playing an RPG before this one, but it was definitely a fun experience.
And I absolutely love how your main character can be A DRAGON, like a straight-up actual dragon. Not just a human who can turn into a dragon. But then I learned how the monster system works and unintentionally gave myself a sort of challenge run because I limited myself to only using dragon-related transformations so I could stay in-character.
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>Romancing Saga Characters as Animals
Albert - Sun Conure
Aisha - Kyrgyz Horse
Hawke - Sooty Albatross
Gray - Timber Wolf
Claudia - Nile Crocodile
Jamil - Cheetah
Barbara - Red bird-of-paradise
Saruin - Fatalis (A Fictional Species from Monster Hunter)
Death - Skullcrawler (A Fictional Species from Monsterverse)
Schirach - Shiny Zoroark (A Fictional Species from Pokemon)
Spite, Strife and Scorn - Cerberus
Saiva - Red Death (A Fictional Species ftom HTTYD)
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>>3977149
you can just cheat with gameshark codes.
and there's no "battle ranking" in SaGa 1 to 3 .and the remakes which should be based on SaGa 2's combat system.
also the difficulty is just right for me. get gud. the games don't even need you to memorise elemental weaknesses like some games do. or have muscle memory to beat most shoot em ups
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>>3977345
>never had to write myself an Excel spreadsheet while playing an RPG before this one,
it can be beaten without any monsters at all. maybe easier w/o monsters unless the RNG fuks you over.
you can however cheese the monster transformations to get an endgame monster very early in the game, that might make the midgame easier.
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>>3977726
Yeah, I felt like my monster was having to play catch-up to the rest of the party for much of the beginning of the game. But finding a method to the madness of which meats lead to which transformations was a really neat experience, so I'm glad I went with the party I did.
Luckily my monster finally got to shine after getting the Dragon God superboss's meat as early as possible (agility + paralysis build FTW)
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>>3977149
>These are basically anti-rpgs.
It’s the other way around: Kawazu is the only JP designer who aims for that tabletop sandbox freeform TRPG experience. Have you tried to read some of the material he puts out (guides mostly) ? Shit looks like the Greyhawk gazeeter smashed together with the manual of the planes, with a sprinkle of glam and Jojo poses.
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>>3977149
For as much as the games try to punish you for grinding, it's not something to be feared, but to be exploited, for some games. If you want a SaGa game where you can exploit the battle ranking system to your benefit, try out Romancing SaGa 2. At later points in the game where you've conquered enough territories and researched enough defensive equipment, you're better off just repeatedly running away from battles to jack up the battle rank quicker and fight stronger enemies sooner for higher experience.
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>>3978138
Romancing SaGa 1-3 (originals/remasters, not the remakes), used a simple battle counter system to determine the level of enemies you fight, and that counter went up every time you got into a battle regardless if you fled.
SaGa Frontier was the first game to have a proper battle rank value that was calculated based on what you fought, though you couldn't flee fights in the original. In the remaster, only fights you won counted towards your battle rank.
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>>3980308
>easy to get lost in like Red's route?
what? Red's scenario is the most linear and "complete" storyline in the whole game. if you can get lost in Red's , you're gonna get lost doing some of the magic quests.
i only got stuck on Assellus and Riki's scenarios. well i did get stuck with Emelia too, but mostly cause I trained her wrong.
read a walkthrough if you can get filtered so easily. Frontier is good for replaying anyway, even if you spoil yourself.
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>>3980961
With many of the SaGa games, gear is more important than stats. The enemy scaling is intended to allow all content to feel relevant regardless of when you tackle it. How you hurt yourself is by mindlessly grinding early on before you’ve acquired better gear. This is a pitfall in several of the games. Which isn't fun for me since I like grinding.
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>>3980992
In the vast majority of games with BR you can grind your ass off like any RPG, you just need to know what you're doing
>RS2
Sequence break to any place with strong fixed enemies like the sunken tower and abuse those with a stun setup to outrun the BR
>RS3
See above except BR is broken here since it scales by enemy type so you can just grind regardless, it's actually way better to grind fixed enemies too since normal enemies scale too slowly
>SF1
Move to any zone with high BR floor like the Biolab and grind there to outrun the BR
>US
Slightly harder to exploit since you can only do questlines once but again, pick any quest with high reward scaling and grind enemies and most importantly chests there, failing does not reset battle history either so it's pretty safe
>MS
The only game where grinding actually takes indepth knowledge and is almost impossible, even still you can grind some select fixed encounters like the minibosses in the vampire lair by beating them, exiting the dungeon and reentering a couple of times since that kind of enemy has boss tier roll multipliers at its BR/E, which means you get way higher growth rolls than normal encounters.
>SSG
Just grind any repeatable battle scenario as per the game's ruleset BR growth on repeated scenario is like one third of standard BR score points, problem is at some point you just stop growing so you need to move on and finish scenarios to get higher BR
>EB
BR growth is gated per world so you can grind wherever, the problem is that at some point you'll need to move on because BR will stop increasing in whatever world you are grinding in
>ROTS
They fucked this one up by making ALL enemies fixed enemies so you just need to sequence break onto any "endgame" region like any ancient ruin then abuse status effects like instant death, stun or paralysis to grind your ass off, in fact it's the only game where you should actually do this as standard progression is so poorly balanced as a result of fixed encounters
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>>3981073
Yeah, combat is harder than compared to other entries. When you advance from the early game you simply have more skills to deal with encounters. Some status effects while powerful, just have low application rates like paralysis. Conditionals can be fairly potent if you have access to them. Such as an interrupt to hopefully finish a monster off or shifting where they are in the time line, and especially counter attacks if your formation and character is built to draw aggro from foes.
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>>3981370
>how do i get money for that and equips?
the Junk shop trick. you should have known that if you looked up the gold shop trick.
even if you don't abuse them, you can use the Junk shop for cheap basic equips until your team learns strong enough techs/magic to beat some other subquests/areas to get stronger equips for the endgame.
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>>3981396
Red's scenario is great for an almost full-mec final team, but that's costly.
- for a more cheaper team , you probably should go recruit Timelord after doing the Time magic quest, but then you will lose 1 LP and Red is kind of low LP to begin with.
- with Timelord , you can recuit Mersathim for her Liferain that does the same thing as FinalCrusade anyway. Avoid Shadow Magic to avoid getting Silence who will block out the more useful mermaid. then go absorb some Suzukas for your Mystics or some higher-tier monsters in Biolab, so they can have high stats/defences even without good equipment.
- Liza can be recruited from Rune magic quest, but you have to avoid Roufas to get her? She's the best character for getting the Dream Super Combo(Martial Arts skill derived from a bunch of throwing skills and Slide). Could also get SoulRune for her for better damage output , but that will take a lot more time, and LightSword from Light magic might be better.
-Rouge should be easy to train up in magic, learn LightSword on him to offset his crap physical stats, or just spend some time training him in punching stuff.
LightSword spell can replace endgame swords for free if you don't already know that.
> https://psnprofiles.com/guide/12278-saga-frontier-remastered-character -recruitment-guide#7-red
you could use Monsters in place of the humans, but they might be underpowered for the final boss fight. harder to combo with their monster skills, and depending on your luck it can be tricky to transform them into a useful endgame form. might also take more time to get them to absorb a variety of monsters to increase their base HP.
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>>3982046
>Suzukas
Fucking autocorrect
>Liza can be recruited from Rune magic quest, but you have to avoid Roufas to get her?
With Red, I think that, after you recruit Annie, you can go back to the restaurant and both Roufas and Liza will be there. You choose Liza. If you chose Roufas, you cannot recruit Liza. But if you chose Liza, you can recruit Roufas in Shrike.
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>>3984959
It's a mass buff, it raises INT/COM/MDEF for everyone by 1 point for every 10 martial arts levels.
>Can he learn other songs?
Kind of? Folk Song is the same as Minstrel Song's Feste D'Arme, just a unique thing the Minstrel has for RP flavour like Tatyana's teddy bear or Snowman's built-in Cold Barrier, but there's other weapon specific songs like the Axe's War Song that everyone including him can learn so -technically- he can learn more songs.
>Is it worth spending more than one turn on?
It doesn't stack with itself but (iirc) it does decay over time so there's that, someone might want to correct me on that if I'm wrong.
It's usually not worth it at all because the only actual change you'll see is from the INT buff for your spellcasters, but you need to specifically build the Minstrel as a martial artist too and grind at least to 30 levels on that to see a meaningful change, if you want a good mass buff you should invest into a spear user and give them the Matriarch Spear since it has the much superior mass buff in Paean of Victory (+1 STR/INT/COM/SPD to everyone for every 5 spear proficiency levels), that spear user might as well be the Minstrel if you really like him since we're talking about universal mechanics anyone can use.
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who benefits magic in Saga? Light, Shadow, Arcane, Rune, Space, Time, Realm, and Mind.
I know Mystics are in their own category, Zozma has Evil magic, Blue gets Reviver (Life), and I assume Rei gets Mirage/Illusions?
https://essenceofsaga.wordpress.com/home/name-comparisons/spells/
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>>3985766
>who benefits magic in Saga?
what you mean? special unique spells for certain characters? there's nothing special for Light/Shadow/Rune/Arcane.
-but for Rune/Arcane, some Mystic/Human characters can't get the gift to learn advanced spells, because you can only recruit them in the middle of the Rune/Arcane quest. of cose Robots and Monsters can't learn any magic.
-only humans can learn Mind magic, but Blue/Rogue can't due to some bug.
-only Blue/Rogue can learn the advanced Realm spells.
-only Timelord and Blue in his own scenario can get all the Time spells.
-only Kylin and Blue in his own scenario can get all the Space spells.
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>>3985766
If you mean the series in general most games don't really give casters access to unique spell schools or gimmicks like Frontier does but I guess there's some exceptions or characters who are inherently more caster oriented than most.
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>>3986075
Not as challenging huh? When I tried looking up on the game, some felt the game was too hard. Then again, they probably suck at RPGs. How would you compare the challenge to something like Minstrel Song?
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>>3985874
>and the follow up is worse
Alliance Alive is fine if a bit easy though it's no more easy than SF1 and 2.
And Max chain water devil den's, while you do have to go out of your way to do the bosses in these conditions, is legitimately hard.
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>>3986194
He's the first person that I know of who said that LoL is too easy. The game has a really inconsistent difficulty curve because a lot of it is playing tug of war with shard control and ambient magic to actually be able to cast magic and stop some enemies from healing a stupid amount of health.
Alliance Alive is easier than LoL outside of the water dens but I could never figure out how to make magic not do terrible damage.
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>>3986847
>EB has significantly worse presentation
On what planet?
Both use the same exact visual formula and everything in EB looks better including the UI, which SSG also somehow downgraded coming from the Vita version.
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We were spoiled having EB, RotS and SF2r released in quick succession.
I'm still holding out hope for an Unlimited remaster before I replay it, but I could see a RS3 remake in the vein of RotS coming first. Which would actually be pretty disappointing. I was hoping RotS would be radically different from the original like MS, but it was extremely faithful despite the art change and streamlining.
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>>3986892
It does get annoying. I like that there is a dedicated defensive option and that it's useful, but it feels like Legend of Legacy is forcing you to always have a blocker or you'll get ran down by enemies. This wouldn't be a huge issue, I had a similar defensive character with Fat Robin in Romancing SaGa 3 with the desert lance formation utilizing matador. It's painful in LoL because you only have three characters, so now your actions every turn are reduced to two. So now you have two actions a turn and you want to get your water shield up immediately to reduce all incoming damage due to how hard foes hit. So now on the first turn of every battle you have a guy always on defense, then another contracting water magic, then another casting water wall. Then magic is tedious because you're bound by rules with contracting the element before being able to use it. Enemies can just cast the element at any time and the elemental contract is on their field. So now magic is a lopsided tug of war that isn't in the players favor and the player needs to extend battle further in order to get any magic set up because they're consuming so many of their limited turns just so their characters are well defended, someone allowing magic to be cast, and another to actually cast the magic.
At times you can horde battle points and dump it on enemies, but that only takes you so far with regular encounters with your skill resources carrying over to each battle rather than being refreshed. I remember the final boss being an arduous battle with just making sure I don't miss a beat with keeping my water contract up so I will always have my water wall up to reduce damage.
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>>3945497
Saga Frontier 2 has astonishing music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clh5bBXoN2Q
could never really stick with the game long enough to finish it, but i keep coming back to the soundtrack.
i also liked the idea of a guy born without magic in a magic world using metallurgy and skill to overcome his handicap.
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>>3989273
The problem with the shield counter is that you have to have your defensive character pick up the attack and then have another roll and counter it. If you failed on either roll you'll be using damage reduction next round to make sure a character won't just immediately die from an attack since it has a higher success rate in intercepting an attack. Counter is great since it negates damage if the defensive person intercepts the attack and procs counter while dealing damage, but when it fails it immediately puts you on the defensive. Can't let KOs on the successive turn go through as well since you have a max HP reduction upon revival which will just further hamper your survivability.
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>>3989177
While Kawazu already said the new mainline will be a return to a more traditional formula I think the core tenets of the modern battle system (timeline, conditionals, very limited healing etc.) are probably here to stay since the reception was positive enough for even the RS2 remake to feature some surface level elements.
And to begin with SSG/EB are already standing on Unlimited and Minstrel Song's shoulders when it comes to combat so it's very likely that the new mainline will iterate on their achievements while adding some new spins here and there, Kawazu and the combat designers always kept polishing and iterating on established and successful concepts rather than trying to reinvent the wheel with each game.
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File: Saga Red.png (1.1 MB)
What do i need for the end? In stats equip and techs.
My battle rank seems to be high and regular enemies are deadly. Red and black dragons that can wipe out my team in a couple of turns.
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>>3989792
Just make sure you have some move slots open. You still haven't learned Red's best martial arts yet. If you don't have Al Pheonix yet then when ever you can at the last part use fist hero skills.
By the way, you have no JP which means you have no magic. Go find the person for mind magic. Mind heal is a very potent self heal that recovers all of your HP and recovers status effects (if the status effect didn't utterly disable you). You might want to equip Final Crusade on Red as well for the final dungeon. Heals that hit more than one party member is rare in the game, pretty much relegated to life rain and final crusade.
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>>3990649
You should try out the remastered version. For the most part, how you tackle quests are similar, but with few extra requirements, as the remake removed a lot of prerequisites to quests to make it more friendly to newcomers, such as no longer needing a "Wild" emperor for the corsair/armed merchant quest.
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>>3989792
why did you put 1 gun and a mid sword on Red in late game???? Eaglegun should be good enough for endgame but you need 2Gun tech to do decent damage with guns, and 2 guns equipped of cose. Boundshot and Trickshot combos with just about any tech/spell. but there's no practical reason to go with Guns when Red is very good at learning Fighting and Sword techs.
overall see >>3982046 if you wanna play without mecs.
with mecs it's easy to get the mecs equipped if you have the money, then get them all to learn PluralSlash.
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>>3989587
>Annie can spark a majority of Sword techs.
i dunno which guide you read. look for the "Mechanics" FAQ?
anyone can spark any sword tech, but Annie don't have "talent" for most of them, so low chance of getting them. like 1 out of 255 chances UNLESS it's boss fight or mid boss?
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>>3989792
Have Red use magic and guns for a couple hours until his mental stats get to 50+. He doesn't need stats higher than 75 for endgame due to Ray Sword stat boosts.
Do the same for everyone else (flip them around), and don't use anything that boosts growing stats (any on humans, charisma on mystics).
Get some better weapons from dungeons and drops. Try for Pluto Armors and Wind Shells especially. For of the latter make most monsters tough.
Have your mystics spam basic spells and sword attacks to grow charisma, WP, and JP. Get their non-charisma stats as high as possible.
Get your monsters a couple end game forms and magic heal.
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>>3982046
>you could use Monsters in place of the humans, but they might be underpowered for the final boss fight
They aren't, a Shrieker is very low investment for something that can do the final boss. You just need an okay move which something like ground hit is good enough. Red himself is fairly turbo charged that you can show up with so little and still beat the final boss due to how much his hero form boosts his stats, none the less you get access to something busted like Final Crusade. For my faster party I tend to go with two mosnters because you need little investment in them. Two robots is great as well, but if you have more than two then gear and skill downloading will be spread too thin among three.
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Just finished Emelia's story in Frontier and unlocked Fuse/NG+. What is generally the most fun way to proceed? From the little googling I did Fuse gets essentially a mini playthrough for each other character; so would it be best to just always do a run with him afterwards before moving on to a new protagonist?
What if anything should I import using the NG+ festure if I want to have fun with the other stories? I imagine using my high level Asellus for her story makes the whole thing kinda meh.
Also what a great game this has been so far. Emelia is a top cutie and definitely deserves another run so I can see her good ending.
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>>3989160
Hamauzu is one of the best vidya composers alive
Funnily enough, he also composed Legend of Legacy and Alliance Alive. Talk shit about the games all you want but the music is top tier stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt6Hdpr4ezc
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>>3991087
Depends on how you want to play it. I did all the characters and then Fuse all at once, but that's because I didn't understand how Fuse worked. It was a nice trip down memory lane; I'm not sure I'd like doing them one after another. Could get repetitive.
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how do i scale my characters for the rs3 endgame? the 2nd boss of the boy's story in the dream maze thing, the dragon guarding the chest at the end of the castle in the rotten sea, and the red dragon at the entrance of theeastern abyssgate all wipe my party in one or two turns, and i don't have good enough armor to survive any longer or damage to take them down faster. At this point i'm willing to just restart the whole game and follow a guide because i feel like i just fucked up at some point and stopped scaling.
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>>3991172
>restart the whole game and follow a guide because i feel like i just fucked up at some point and stopped scaling.
go ahead. some main characters are harder to play with than others.the dragon fights are tough. the dream maze should be easy though? i might be remembering it wrong, or is this the remake version?
get /use the Genbu formation if you have trouble surviving boss attacks. and recruit the more tanky characters instead, like the Elephant guy and Fat Robin.
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>Romancing SaGa 2 Characters as Animals
Emperor Leon: Komainu
Victor: Komainu
Gerard: Komainu
Coppelia: Protogen
Final Emperor/Empress: Komainu mix
Bear: Kodiak Bear
James: Desert Night Lizard
Liza: Frilled Necked Lizard
Henry: Sunda Pangolin
Therese: Numbat
Aries: Pukei-Pukei (A Fictional Species from Monster Hunter)
Emerald: Centiskorch (A Fictional Species from Pokemon)
Hector: Amur Hedgehog
Andromache: Hokkaido Pony
Regulus: Lion Tamarin
Rose: Crab-eating Fox
Wallenstein: Alligator Snapping Turtle
Minerva: Broad-snouted Caiman
Shiyuan: Amur Leopard
Jubei: Japanese Serow
Sharrkan: Arabian Oryx
Hamba: Mountain Zebra
Altan: Meerkat
Fatima: Botta's Pocket Gopher
Georg: Tyrannotitan
Sophia: Suchomimus
Natalie: Pegasus
Henrique: Stellar Sea Lion
Erik: Eremotherium
Karl: Antilopine Kangaroo
Sparrow: Tanuki
Cat: Sand Cat
Jeanne: Jandaya Parakeet
Thetis: Striped Dolphin
Windy: Osprey
Seimei: Night Fury (A Fictional Species from HTTYD)
Azami: Fukuiraptor
Frosti: Indian Lac Scale
Licorice: Betta
Wagnas: Monarch Butterfly
Rocbouquet: Seiryu
Bokhohn: Spotted Hyena
Noel: Seiryu
Dantarg: Titanosaurus
Subier: Coconut Octopus
Kzinssie: Okapi
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>>3945812
I think the sort of odd obscurity of Frontier is what drew me to it as a kid. I came to it after playing SaGa 1, 2 and 3 as a kid, and sort of stumbling through them. I appreciated those more going back to them. i think I was too young for them at the time.
While Frontier just felt big, it felt mysterious. It still feels mysterious to me.
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>>3991236
>good storytelling and characters?
RS3 frankly made me fall asleep several times. i could not replay after beating it with whatshername, the noblewoman who cut her hair to go look for her magic sword.
>KURO the pirate who regains his youth by defeating one of the midbosses is kind of cool.
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I'm lost in the jungle in RS3, send help. I can't chain together the number of butterflies to get to the fire fortress and I can't find my way back to a real town and there are random encounters fucking everywhere. How do I get out of here?
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>>3991358
If you want an easy way to get to the Fire Fortress you simply need to find any jungle screen outside of the starting one that has an exit in the upper side of the screen, then simply go up and down until you get to the Fire Fortress entrance.
If you're not wasting time doing the butterfly puzzle the game simply seeds different parts of the map at random that have a connection to other parts of the map with similar entry point layouts so you can bruteforce the RNG to enter the Fire Fortress.
Getting out of the jungle if you're lost can be bruteforced in the same way, find a screen with left or right exit points and go left or right until the game warps you in the initial jungle screen where you can go back to the village.
>>3991384
Fuse's entire gimmick is that his scenario is a final boss rush with each final boss progressively getting stronger, he's best left for last after you beat all the other scenarios so you also unlock the final bosses for his own scenario.
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>>3991391
>Fuse's entire gimmick is that his scenario is a final boss rush with each final boss progressively getting stronger, he's best left for last after you beat all the other scenarios so you also unlock the final bosses for his own scenario.
Yeah that’s the vibe i got
Playing a tldr of emilia's story immediately after finishing it feels weird
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>>3991440
>>10/10 storytelling omg the emotion, drama, everything!!
This but unironically, if you don't feel anything for pic related or characters like Tatyana you don't have a soul
>>3991460
Look, I get what you mean but modern SaGa games are built on NG+ cycles and it's really been a thing ever since SF1.
Nowadays you can do NG+ without carrying over anything but your system data to access the NG+ content, that's what you wanted to say
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>>3991236
The Last Remnant. It took the last playthrough 15 years later to realize who the guy on the left actually is and how he isn't just a cackling asshole. The true story kino really is in its sidequests
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>>3991618
Wagram's story is really well written.
Nothing about him or his motivations is mentioned directly and it's all implied by the optional snippets of narrative about the first Imperator you find here and there in other characters' sidequests like Glenys' or Wyngale's and some bits of the main questline like the story of Marion Marshall or the part where you go to Undelwalt and find out the current imperator is just some random guy acting as a proxy.
It's a bit disappointing that the entire subplot tied to him about the planet (?) developing anti-Remnant weapons is just dropped there but I guess that's just one of the many "Remnants bad" points to drive the general narrative together with things like Remnants slowly killing their users or fucking with the fabric of reality on top of being catalysts for wars.
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>>3991914
You need to get stats and sparks somehow on a new game. Even if none of the final bosses are that hard, if you just beeline towards them with a bunch of underdeveloped, sub 500 hp mooks you’ll get annihilated.
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>>3991460
First time I did in-game recommended NG+ settings was with EB, since you can't hope to see the higher tier stuff in a single playthrough. It eventually balances out, but those first sections in a NG+ really do get boring since you have great gear on even previously unused characters.
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>>3991800
Another brilliance to Last Remnant's world building is how it handles racism.
Why do the Mitra (Humans), Yama (Fishmen) & Qsiti (Frogmen) get along without systematic discrimination? Because they all have a shared history as being slaves to the Sovani cat people and then united under an empire afterwards. And because the Sovani are stand in for ageless elves, they still remember the history and can't help but still be casually racist to everyone else unless they've taken effort to unlearn it (eg. Torgal, Caedmon). No heavy handed speeches, no need to make it the main plot. It's simply a presence of the world. And Allan and Wyngale's heated gamer moments make them very funny to have along.
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>>3992366
>do the Rune/Tarot questlines,
that usually gets my HP pass 500. i think you missed the point.
and you do need to grind a bit to get the combo-able higher damage techs/spells to beat any scenario. training in Biolab is one of the better ways to do it, because it's guranteed you will fight a higher-BR enemy there(unless BR8-9), and fighting tougher enema increases your chance of learning stuff. 5 hrs in Biolab is probably overkill unless you're extremely unlucky.
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>>3992447
and IIRC Riki and T260G can't start the Rune/Arcane magic quests at all.
for T260G, her mainquest's dungeons are better for absorbing mec techs. and her final boss is easier to beat with a full mec team anyway, because of all the damn status effects.
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I'm about two hours into The Last Remnant and I hope Azure Noun is exactly this with the tempo-combos from SG/EB in the deadlocks
hell let whole array of unions have their own tempo combo meter AND the positional stuff
>battle gameplay pauses
>Patrick from Trails of Cold Steel starts talking out of nowhere
>When two unions interupt-combo a reaction, all allied units on the map are able to follow up a shieldbreaker flow
>this is called
>a Gaping
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Playing ROTS for a couple weeks was great, but the boss theme gave me a headache after a while. When I started SaGa Frontier the battle theme was so good it retroactively made RS2's soundtrack worse for me, it and it's 5 tracks.
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>>3992659
I wouldn't mind to see Unions based combat in SaGa in some form but TLR has major issues with how positioning works, I can see why modern SaGa games focused entirely on the timeline aspect and shifted focus from orthodox positioning to entirely abstract positioning.
The entire battle system in TLR is a huge mess really, Maehiro threw a lot of shit at the wall and nobody spanked him for some reason.
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Anus is kicking my ass no matter what I do. Ignus Leathers don't seem to do anything. and I can't keep up with his damage output. HP is around 400-440 on average, Sarah is my main character (bows and wind/lunar magic), with Ellen, Nora, Fat Robin, Young Boy and Minstrel as the party. Fat Robin and Minstrel are probably going to have to be my main attackers, since Ellen and Young Boy don't have anything ranged that can put out enough damage (Snake Blaster at least doesn't get me set on fire).
I'm thinking I might want a good bow user, but how can I cut down on his damage?
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>>3993206
Bows suck bigly in RS3, you're better off using indirect techs from other weapons like Dual Dragons/Spatial Persona/Firecracker/Snake Blaster.
Otherwise you can cheese him with Commander Mode techs since they're all indirect orSnowman.
>how can I cut down on his damage?
Aunus is largely about heat and slash damage through sword techs and the occasional Reaper's Scythe, the former can be mitigated with Self Immolation or Firewall but you don't really want to risk changing the field element to fire since that will enable him to regen a ton of HP, the latter is mostly avoided through parries and counters with a counterbait formation like Desert Lance and a meaty tank in the first slot, he does have Insanity though which can be really annoying if it lands consistently but he's fairly weak otherwise and doesn't have a lot of HP, have somebody pelt him with Squall every turn to make sure he doesn't get to abuse his passive regen and he should go down rather easily.
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>>3993206
>Sarah is my main character
horrible MC but like what >>3993236
said. her commander mode might be more powerful.
Ellen has shit base stats like most of the MCs.
only other MCs you should recruit would be the token african Harid and Thomas trained up as a mage. Harid being kind of nerfed by his Curved Sword slot, unless you do the 7-Star Sword.
Nora is good but better off using her to craft endgame weapons IIRC?
>Shonen
i thought he gets removed in the final battle too. best not to use him at all.
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>>3993411
All characters start with their own specific retinues that are exclusive to their own playthrough, yes, Urpina has her princess guard, Taria has The Killers, Leo has Elizabeth's wageslaves and Balmaint has Arthur's posse.
On NG+ cycles you can unlock the coprotagonist of a scenario (Mondo/Elizabeth/Kahn/Arthur) to be available as a recruitable characters for the other protagonists if you complete their sidequests.
EB is the same, all characters have their own specific starting retinues although a couple of select characters from those starting retinues can also be recruited by some other protagonists if certain conditions are met.
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>>3991324
>Hi, I'm X
>Hello I am Y, and I'm searching for Z
>Wanna join my party? Y/N
>Then they get literally one or two lines of dialog after you finish their personal quest, if they even have one
You're lying if this isn't 90% of the secondary party members dialog in every SaGa game. Rarely there's an elaborate quest related to them, but thats just 10% of the characters in a given game.
The "main story" also rarely has more than two pages of text, and you have to make up stuff in your mind for some of the dialog to make sense, especially in the games where each character has a separate story.
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>>3995227
the games respect your intelligence by keeping the characters silent so that you the player have full agency over the quests and even character motivations. if you want a railroaded yap adventure where characters will non stop remind you what kind of story is happening on the screen you can go play something like forspoken.
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>>3995227
>Literally "if the game script isn't the size of war and peace the game has no story" again
I'm tempted to actually spend some time to explain at length how fucking stupid this is but after 20 years in this shithole I know better.
>but you also can't pretend SaGa has any significant storytelling or characters beyond surface level
What the fuck is "surface level" about somebody like Asellus, Gen, Kelvin or Gerard?
What the fuck is "surface level" about RS3's storytelling when you look at all the worldbuilding where every single location has multiple interwoven storylines?
Pidona alone has
>The single, most important role of being the world's main hub for commerce and connecting to most of the world's locations
>Ludwig, who is connected to Khalid, Thomas and by extension Charl and Muse, and is also responsible for the proxy war in Stanley and Myules
>Maximus/Jackal who's connected to Nora, Black/Herman, Muse and Tiberius and the entire order of the Archlord
>Muse and Charl who are connected to Thomas and technically Fullbright
>The city itself was one of the major strongholds of the Arch Demon 300 years prior the events of the game but was reclaimed by Paulus who was one of the previous stars of destiny
>Alloces and one of the main story dungeons
>Nora and her workshop
>Is also one of the locations where you can find the traveling circus
What the fuck is "surface level" about this, especially for a 1995 SNES game?
What's a game with storytelling or characters that are beyond surface level?
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>>3996189
>>The single, most important role of being the world's main hub for commerce and connecting to most of the world's locations
>>Ludwig, who is connected to Khalid, Thomas and by extension Charl and Muse, and is also responsible for the proxy war in Stanley and Myules
>>Maximus/Jackal who's connected to Nora, Black/Herman, Muse and Tiberius and the entire order of the Archlord
>>Muse and Charl who are connected to Thomas and technically Fullbright
>>The city itself was one of the major strongholds of the Arch Demon 300 years prior the events of the game but was reclaimed by Paulus who was one of the previous stars of destiny
extremely condensed lore. it's like writing war n piss in a light novel format, except each paragraph is also limited to 150 characters.
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>>3996198
Exactly, you can have the same amount of key info and depth of a 900 pages novel by simply writing shit smartly in a couple of words that actually matter, especially in a videogame where you can simply just show shit without using words.
You don't need dozens of NPCs or main character telling you how Pidona sure is a major and super important city through dialogue like "oh boy there sure are tons of merchants and rich people here" and so on, the fucking gameplay itself tells you that, it's THE traveling hub in the game connected to most of the world's locations via ships, the stock market minigame gives you access to the Claudius family business in Pidona and with that you have fuck you amount of capital to abuse and bully small businesses into forced takeover, one of the four main story dungeons is in there and so on, no words needed to point out what is already explained through gameplay.
Yes, the games are also deliberately written in a way that leaves some things open to interpretation because it's a fucking RPG and people should be able to make some shit up in their mind to roleplay or simply wonder about, but to say that the games' writing is surface level is a monumentally idiotic statement.
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