>>2366613
shogun 2 is far from wasted potential
they somehow managed to make a game where every faction is basically the same into gold using the napoopan engine
then they fucked it up and every game since has been ass

i've long hold the belief that jeff van dyck is somehow the magic which makes total war work

>>2366613
Imagine not using the All 86 Clans mod and the Sinkable Ships mod.

Shogun 2 is literally the only playable Total War game, between the clunky, unresponsive Gameboy games prior and the post-Rome 2 slop.

>>2366613
Oh I see, Ikko Ikki were just like my heccin Jacobin-Marx derived leftist dogshit ideology!

this game flat out refuses to run on my gaming pc, but works fine on my 2020 laptop

File: untitled.png (1.3 MB)

you never played shogun 2 unless you finished ikko ikki on very hard in MoSS

>play as Otomo and get completely addicted to converting all of Japan to Christianity
>play as Ikki Ikoku and get completely addicted to converting all of Japan to Ikki Bikkie
RELIGION RULES!!!

File: 1766519556145646.jpg (48.9 KB)

>decide to check out shogun 2 because histlets say its the best one
>every single faction has the same roster + 1 unique unit
>every single settlement is exactly the same
>every single settlement is 1 away from each other, game is just siege bowling
>the tier 1 starter spearmen and bowmen are the best units in the game, literally 0 reason to build anything else

>>2366919
yeah well we told you vanilla sucks

File: 1774103703463087.png (445.6 KB)

>>2366613
All we need is battles of BIGGDR scale bra. Like in nobunagas ambition but not weeb. Like NTW3 beeeeeg bro so big bro

>>2366919
get new material, retard

>>2366919
No, they aren't the best units, you stupid bastard. You'd know that if you played. They are just decent, despite being cheap, because it's a non-Western country prior to roughly 1850: low tech and with no real sense of military tactics

>>2367035
By the time you make a half stack of non-ashigaru your opponent could have 2-3 stacks of rice farmers ready to rape you

I'll never understand why morons who make tier lists can't tell the difference between early, mid, and late game.
Yes, Yari Ashigaru are great units to use throughout the campaign.
No, you shouldn't actually use only Ashigaru, you'll get raped by Katana and Bow Samurai in mid game.
No, you shouldn't rush samurai either.

>pay one billion sacks of rice to unlock ninjas at tier 3
>they are completely worthless
>"HI-YAH! SNOKE BOMBU!!!"
I could have had 5 stacks of spear niggas auto resolving vs the shogun himself. This has always been the issue with shogun. I really like what they were trying to do, its way better then the tec race doom stack gameplay. But the balance is not right at all, the cost to reward ratio is just not there for any of these samurai units

>>2367766
This, balance is out of wack in S2. Naturally I have the entire map at war with me before 1560, not because RD has been triggered, but because I'm conquering land anyway and everyone hates that. But if I don't conquer land then another clan will and will become stronger than me. So I have to conquer all of the time and so I never have an opportunity to recruit / use special units because the campaign is finished before 1580.
But this time though I'm really going to try and not conquer land. If a clan declares on me then I will fight battles and that's it

>>2367412
Ashigaru are the most cost effective units and they benefit the most from blacksmith upgrades and experience. Late game, max experience Ashigaru WILL beat the everliving shit out of low experience Samurai, even disregarding the AI's inability to deal with Yari Wall. Even worse, Ashigaru units are something like 25% larger than Samurai units, allowing them to trade extremely well with Bow Samurai due to weight of fire.

Seriously, just making Samurai units the same size as Ashigaru would probably go a long way to make them more useful.

>>2367412
Yari ashigaru are relevant from early to endgame.
>No, you shouldn't actually use only Ashigaru, you'll get raped by Katana and Bow Samurai in mid game.
Yeah not only yari ashigaru, but you should still use yari ashigaru in the midgame.

>use missile superiority to force enemy army to charge into my yari wall
>later in the game mix in a few elite units, especially on the flanks, and use a bit of cav for morale shocks
The above strategy has hard carried me in the campaigns so far. What's the next steps to improve?

>>2367852
The whole Shogun 2 roster is perfect. Every unit has its use case and very few of them ever become obsolete. I don't disagree with what you said, that's just one way to play the game. Limiting yourself to only Ashigaru ignores many of the strengths of samurai units in key situations, like castle battles where yari wall can't be used offensively. A strong core of samurai, backed by ashigaru, wins.

Personally I don't think a "Standard" unit being useful for an entire game is a balance issue. I play 1v1 campaigns with my uncle in this game and yeah there are a lot of Ashigaru used but the plays are made with other units.

>>2368337
Ashigaru are your line holders, not your actual offensive units. They're extremely good at what they do, but they're not OP in any way. Ashigaru becoming obsolete would be against the historical reality, and really it's something I hope is repeated in Med 3 where your peasants levies never become obsolete and always have a place on the battlefield.

>>2367780
If you play above hard you'll just get overwhelmed because you can't outproduce the AI
It may not feel good or historical but blitzing is how you beat the game

>>2368337
I steamrolled a 1v1 campaign by just spamming economy buildings and farting out ashigaru stacks. I remember out most important battle happened in a tier 3 city neighboring Kyoto. He had a powerful stack of all samurai and I had 3 shit stacks of ashigaru. I wiped him and lost 50% of my men but had 3 more ashigaru shit stacks on the way, with more in production.

>>2367412
>you'll get raped by Katana and Bow Samurai in mid game.
Not if my rice farmer horde outnumbers them 2 or 3 to 1 which will always happen if you don't waste money on the worthless military chain

File: 1774547798532014.webm (2.7 MB)

>>2368887
>>2367412
>>2367316
take the yari pill

File: Hachiman the Shinto-Christ.jpg (7.1 KB)

>>2366906
>>play as Otomo and get completely addicted to converting all of Japan to Christianity
This one is pretty lame, imagine the roleplay you could have get if CA actually care about proper roleplay and not "muh faction unit diversity"
>be Portuguese missionary
>get to Japan
>Otomo clan, Shinto-Buddhist (polytheists)
>your god (Jesus Christ, "god of gunpowder") is the nanban / gaijin Hachiman (Shinto god of war, has a dove as his favorite animal)
>your Portuguese tercos get cool Hachiman's iconography
>creates a new entire religion based on gunpowder
>HACHIMAN HEIKA BANZAI

>>2366884
What does that mod?
How does it changes the vanilla campaign and mechanics?

>>2370989
https://youtu.be/hT5PvKGH7zE

>>2371013
I fucking hate this guys 10 minute long AI slop videos

>>2370989
Bloat

>>2368336
The hard pill to swallow is that the best way to play is to *insert Clan*'s strengths. Crazy.

>>2368337
Basic units remaining relevant in the campaign is fine. I dislike the tierfaggotry some of the games are doing. The problem with yari ashigaru though is that yari wall is broken. Broken in that it bypasses part of the game mechanics because it's cludge to make a spear wall work in a heavily matched combat game. You can counter it but it warps the game around it to the degree I do not believe it deserves and AI is too retarded to do it, so just knowing that means that not cheesing every battle is just sandbagging.

>>2366906
>>2370988
>install Portugal mods
>I can't convert to Shinto-Buddhism nor Ikko Ikki
>check mods for Wako pirates
>none give me a full-playable campaign
I hate this shitty mods, Steam Workshop deserves a purge.

>>2368329
Nothing, you're already using the perfect strategy.

Any solutions to tiny ui on 4k resolution? Or am I forced to use the 1080p?

>>2371404
It's still the closest TW has gotten to a well balanced and mechanically interesting roster
It's depressing when you think about it

File: ainu.jpg (25.3 KB)

>>2366613
Is there an Ainu or Hokkaido mod for this game, i'm willing to take FOTS or base game. I think the Ainu are cool af.

File: get m.jpg (40.4 KB)

>>2366613
My favorite clan is Date, they're kind of ""hard"" because i always use large Samurai armies do to the charge bonus (meaning i'm always out of money), but goddamit it's just really fun to be like a swiss warrior and GÅ PÅ on the enemy with huge stacks of No Dachi and Katana samurai and Ashigaru supported by bow samurai.

Has anyone played rise of the samurai campaign? I feel like it tries to tackle the ashigaru spam by making peasants really, REALLY shit that even sword attendards cut them 4 to 1 easily, whilst making samurai and other Tier 3 units really REALLY hard to get, but its been a while since I played

>>2375421
Might try and buy it, biggest problem with ROTS in my opinion is that on the surface (specifically) it just doesn't look as interesting or """varied""" as the base game and FOTS and afaik is way more focused on politics and diplomacy. Saying this as a big sucker for "smaller scale" eras like this, sort of like a dark age Total War mod set in dark age britain, again i might genuinely buy it because i think a game where you actually have to think about how to conquer the land is interesting.

>>2375421
It's vanilla Shogun 2 but less interesting. Total War is very reliant on using a large variety of one-dimensional units for battle depth, but with CA's method of using vanilla as a base and then taking things away when designing "early era" DLCs, you're just left with the bare minimum and it makes the game boring.

>>2375536
Have you played the Insularis Draco mod for Med II anon? It's an early dark ages Britain total conversion, it's pretty interesting.

>>2376958
Yeah i have, i thought it was pretty fun but sometimes i feel like the A.I cheats.

>>2374896
Idk, anon. I saw there was a mod that adds Korea and I heard about one that was/is (?) been developped to include ALL Asia.

>>2376958
>Insularis Draco mod
that mod is ass

>>2378431
the game is ass. it was alright 20 years ago, but can we finally admit its fucking ass

>>2378439
Med2 is ass? People still simping for it.
I never play it, should I try it?

>>2366919
>not realizing everything you listed makes the game good
filtered. Go back to warhammer magic slop.

>>2378450
Depends, desu anon i played it for the first time back in 2019 and i still enjoyed it. It will depend heavily on whether you played other TWs recently because it was the first TW i played since Atilla.

>>2374896
Expanded Japan

>>2366613
Currently replaying Rise of Samurai campaign on hard and want to try something.
Whenever I capture town I have to babysit it for some turns because resistance to invaders + different family support.
I liked this mechanic since it worked both ways, even if AI captured your towns, but left them undefended, they would rebel back to your side along with any surviving rebel giga strength stack given how easy it was to lose towns in Shogun and how many fronts you could have closer to end-game

I want to try to proc a rebellion with my army stack next to town so I can beat the army and get the "crushed rebellion" bonus to offset resistance to invaders temporarily.

Is it worth it? I have memories of rebellions being super hard in Shogun 2 last time I played it few years back.

>>2378450
It's OK. The battles feel like your soldiers are running through molasses. The campaign map gameplay is very good and holds up to this day with the exception of diplomacy, which no Total War game does well.

>>2378657
>I liked this mechanic since it worked both ways, even if AI captured your towns, but left them undefended, they would rebel back to your side along with any surviving rebel giga strength stack given how easy it was to lose towns in Shogun and how many fronts you could have closer to end-game
That's interesting to hear. The AI gets a ton of public order cheats and can automatically spawn armies in Sengoku Jidai so this almost never happens.

>>2378657
>>2378684
>they would rebel back to your side
This has never happened to me in any of my campaigns in any TW. Rebels stay rebelling (unless its the capital of a former faction, then it reappears), at least CA could have made them developed their own faction (give more deep and playability to the game), example:
>others' faction city or your own city
>gets rebels (its own citizens or slaves)
>conquer the city
>new faction that never exists gets the name of city it took
>become a faction give its own right
>if gets conquered and rebels again, both type of rebels could appear (the ones of the original faction they belonged and the ones of the new faction)
I think it would have been a cool detail that adds immersion and makes the world feel alive.

>>2378684
I had it happen at least once which is why I remember it so well. I am assuming family bonuses/maluses outweigh AI bonuses which is why its easier for it to proc in RoS but again, it wasn't something regular either.I also had a lot of fun causing rebellions with monks back in the day.

>can automatically spawn armies in Sengoku Jidai
Devs confirmed it as false
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/137395-Frogbeastegg-s-Guide-to-Total-War-Shogun-II
>Campaign AI does not spawn additional forces except under the following four circumstances:
>Ashikaga faction
>Rebellions
>Wako pirates
>European Traders, Black Ship

It's crazy how easy Oda is compared to the other "mainland" clans. Like holy shit, i'm pumping armies fast as fuck. Not even Otomo was like this.

>>2378708
It was happening to me quite often in Shogun 1 to a point that I sometimes baited enemy to take my province so it could rebel and gift me some free troops

>>2383218
>Sh1
Ok anon, but I was talking about Sh2, this thread is about the sequel.

>>2379589
The secret to Shogun 2 is that spamming Ashigaru and rushing conquests to fuel your economy is the most efficient way to play the game. Oda is both well-situated to expand quickly and gets better/cheaper Ashigaru for more spam. It's a broken combination.

Otomo are a meme because gunpowder literally just isn't very good in S2 at all. When armour is paper and arrows are bullets, what's the point of guns?

File: 1742389979981131.png (54.9 KB)

>Samurai take a special building to recruit, removing a potential building slot for more money
>Samurai take multiple turns to recruit, meaning that you lose 2 units of ashigaru for every samurai
>Samurai are 2-3x more expensive than ashigaru to recruit and maintain, meaning will be outnumbered on the field
>Samurai are huge jobbers that die to arrows and lose when surrounded by 2-3 units of ashigaru
This game has the worst balance of all time. The smallest total war unit roster and 90% of it is worthless garbage

>>2383563
I'm also trying to play Date but i got stopped halfway. Maybe it's cuz i'm fielding mostly Samurai armies.

>>2383616
I'm only halfways through the island btw, i'm like right next to the Oda heartland but i have too many enemies sailing in and doing sea invasions.

For me Rome I, Medieval II and Shogun 2 are the trinity of actually good Total War games. They alone made this shitty franchise last 20 years.
I never played Medieval 1 or Shogun 1.

>>2383616
You'll always want a core of Yari Ashigaru regardless of which clan you're playing

>>2383603
You don't need more than one or two military recruitment provinces. You should have three types of cities
>recruitment city, build as relevant to a provincial specialty, but in general you probably only need two or three the whole game, use encampments to stack bonuses
>defensive cities, towers are optional but upgrading castles are not, avoid economy buildings to avoid eye for the ladies trait malus, recruitment buildings optional if you want some extra defensive units, move up your defenses as you advance, replace with economic buildings
>economic, areas that are naturally safe or have been secured through further conquest, spam economic buildings here
The game's city management is dead simple. You have a bunch of tools but only three real use cases. You're encouraged to specialize provinces.

File: Nagane_Tanaka_Haibutsu_Kishaku.jpg (226.7 KB)

>>2366613
>still no mod that allows you that do Total Buddhist Death

>>2383650
for me its Shogun I, Rome I, 3k

Does anybody know how to extract the list of possible agent names, or if there's one available somewhere already?

>>2383563
>Otomo
>betray Buddha and the Kami (Shinto Gods) to get gunpowder from the nanban (foreigner) oni (demon) known as rabbi Yeshua

>me, Shimazu
>get gunpowder without betraying Lord Buddha nor the Kami
>help the Otomo regain their lost honor by exterminating them
Feels good to be loyal.

>>2383603
>1 turn everything mod
It helps turning the campaign into something fun instead a boring chore sim.

>>2383924
??

>>2384000
3k is bullshit.

>>2384176
No, sorry, anon.

>>2374896
Were the Ainu involved in the warring states? Hell what were the Ainu doing before they were buttfucked by the Japanese? I've only ever heard about them as "those pure innocents/filthy barbarians on Hokkaido"
Genuinely curious as it's something I never really hear anything about.

>>2374899
>swiss warrior
>GÅ PÅ
You're a bit confused, but close enough. I love the frank warriors and their spirit of élan.

>>2383921
>make military recruitment provinces
>frontline swiftly moves beyond them
>all the elite troops you wasted money to build and recruit spend most of the campaign marching to chase your ashigaru swarms

>>2384231
>3k is bullshit.
its fine after tuning

>>2366613
I still believe in shogun 2 modding

File: all-fall-of-the-samurai-historic.png (3.6 MB)

Shogun 2 really is a masterpiece when you realize is the last total war to have all those amazing little details that we lost after Rome 2 like those mini movies for agents/unit recruitment, a soundtrack by Jeff van Dyck, trade nodes, black ships etc. Hell,is the only Total War outside of Napoleon with a dedicated entire historic battles campaign. Its really cool playing all those battles take take you from Kyoto all the way to Hokkaido, you even have a battle to protect the ship that is going to take you to the island. Seriously, I haven't see this kind of love from any of the new games

>>2390480
OP here, pero madre mía Willy compañero, ¿qué haces tú por aquí?

No tengo ese DLC, CA lo separó del juego base para hacer el "saga". Encima de guiris son usureros.

>>2366613
>wanting to convert to Gay Buddhism

I love Shogun 2 but I hate that modern games somehow got dumber than it mechanically despite the fact that it has outright flaws somehow games that should be improved just haven't learned from its failings or maintained its successes.

Anyone know if fast climbers (Kisho Ninja, those Mori Raiders) have a lower rate of falling from the wall?

>>2396358
Iirc Kisho Ninja just don't fall at all if there's no one to stop them

>>2395557
>gay
>means 'happy' in french and english
Yeah. ¡Praise Hotei!

Keep crying, "afterlife scares me" goylem.

>>2366613
>fixed
PD: If Takeda had triumphed over Oda Nobunaga, Japan would have avoided many defeat (Imjin and WW2) problems.

>>2366613
pure land is reverse engineered Christianity. fuck that.

File: EB3CF7C7-BB7B-4578-8AB8-B40329D1697A.jpg (106.9 KB)

>>2368887
Sorry my gold armor no dachi just punched through your lines in 2 seconds and your army size advantage is moot.

>>2405993
AI is not smart enough to use flanking maneuvers, much less tactics like defeat in detail. You can win against AI with nothing but ashigaru spam.

>>2384277
This never happens. Ever.

>>2418358
This is with regards to attacking several stacks of trash with one stack of samurai

Kill them, break them etc, before they get a chance to regroup

>>2421293
Again: it doesn't matter what you do vs AI because they don't know how to use numbers properly. You can banzai charge your samurai into their lines and win because the AI is retarded. Trying this against a human player is suicide. They will use the yari wall ability and stop a samurai charge in its tracks, then flank the samurai with more yari ashigaru. Not even samurai morale will hold up to that. Between getting stiff-armed by the yari wall and getting flanked, they will probably route at around 50-60% casualties.

>>2421675
Yari wall barely works against humans because you can just go around. You can disengage at will and pick better targets.

Yari ashigaru are only broken against the computer.
Wrt ashigaru breaking samurai on the charge, they'll get counter charged by reserves.

Again, the scenario is depicting a single samurai army going up against two armies (or more) of ashigaru, that do not spawn from the exact same location.
Not an uncommon occurrence in campaign.

Speed, decisiveness and elan will win out over superior numbers

File: as.jpg (640.8 KB)

>>2367412
>No, you shouldn't actually use only Ashigaru, you'll get raped by Katana and Bow Samurai in mid game.
Not in my shift.
>I'll never understand why morons who make tier lists can't tell the difference between early, mid, and late gam
You should understand there no mid game. Only early and late, where you even no need armies since agents can delete any threat. As you see, game basically was done before 30th turn.

>>2383563
>Otomo are a meme because gunpowder literally just isn't very good in S2 at all. When armour is paper and arrows are bullets, what's the point of guns?
Point in morale retard. Even samurai paint their flags in white while the close to Otomo triple lines. Castle def with matchlock ashigaru is most braindead thing in whole game.
And their monks have literally cheat tier chances to revolt.

>>2421675
You seem to have things ass backwards. You can win against the AI either way because it's kinda dumb and has no idea what a yari wall is. It will run high tier units into your yari and die or you can smash their ashigaru with samurai because they won't use it. It's literally a broken mechanic.
As for MP I played a decent amount and I don't think it was ever a thing there though. Human player will easily recognise it and avoid it, flank it, shoot it. Maybe if you bring a whole doomstack you can catch someone not having good enough counter but it's debatable if going all in and winning an army comp rock paper scissors roll makes it "good" in some meaningful sense.

>>2384242
>Were the Ainu involved in the warring states?
Hokkaido was basically irrelevant until Meiji to the point that it wasn't included on Japan maps of that period. The best you had during Sengoku was small attempts at colonization/exploration and trade at the closest there is to the northern part. The forcible assimilation had to wait until the Imperial period.
Okinawa/Ryukyu was actually important back then.

>>2422264
Matchlocks are so good it's insane. IRL the reason Oda Nobunaga won in the Sengoku-sensou is because of matchlocks. I kid you not. In-game, most people think matchlocks suck because they don't realize the guard-mode button exists in the game. Matchlocks are the greatest I love matchlocks. Otomo are the best faction in the game. Oda is the most broken because it abuses the campaign meta of just Yari-ashigaru but in multiplayer I think Otomo with matchlocks or Takeda are probably the two best. Date is pretty good too, but you have to know how to use them which 99% of people who play Total War don't know and just use them as a worse Katana samurai.

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