looks cool

I think you should kill yourself but there are no stakes there either.

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>>286426295
Violence on screen helps me cope with life.

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>>286426295
stakes in a predetermined outcome story? Did you lose money by betting on the ending of jjk and now youre upset with stories?

>>286426295
once you accept that all stakes are fake because all fiction is scripted, you can appreciate the art of spinning a yarn

>>286426415
>I enjoy pretty colors

>>286426653
You concept of stakes is not the same as I have.
Narrative stakes are things you believe can happen in the universe.
So, for example, James Bond's movies have no narrative stakes because the story literally can't progress if James Bond dies, and yet they have their cake and eat it too by constantly putting him in danger.
At least Dragon Ball understood it, and while death is just a temporary inconvience its still something.

>>286426674
the main character always wins in the end in all but a statistically insignificant number of cases

>>286426881
That's not the issue. You missed the point completely.
The issue isn't something happening; it's baiting that something could happen, that narrative can't happen because

What I'm saying narrative stakes and in-universe stakes need to be in balance.
E.g. if the villain's goal is to destroy the universe, there no real stakes, because that plan cannot succeed as it would end the story. But if the goal is more grounded, like nuking Australia, it can happen, because the rest of the world still exists.

fun

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>>286426653
Turn out that "steak"fags are no different than powerlevel fags.

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>>286426674
>Narrative stakes
arent real and never have been. the outcome isnt a stake(gamble)

>>286427146
the only things that can happen are the things the writer writes as happening. There's no meaningful distinction to be found between your inability to imagine death and your inability to imagine destruction
You can't even imagine a fun conversation to have with anonymous cunts on 4chan

>>286426295
fun things are fun

>>286427146
>What I'm saying narrative stakes and in-universe stakes need to be in balance.
>E.g. if the villain's goal is to destroy the universe, there no real stakes, because that plan cannot succeed as it would end the story
Multiverses. Checkmate.

>>286426674
Defending dragon ball because it has temporary death is dumb. It’s insulting suns the series tries to make a big deal out of a death when we know death is irrelevant because you can’t say he’s get wished back to life. I’d rather have the character not die in the first place than the series pretend to have an impactful emotional death

>>286427203
you’re getting hung up on the literal definition of “stake” like this is a vegas sportsbook.

narrative stakes aren’t about the outcome being metaphysically uncertain, they’re about the audience not feeling like the author is jerking them around. it’s the difference between “how will he survive this?” and “lol he’ll asspull again.”

obviously the writer decides everything. that’s not some galaxy brain revelation. the tension comes from internal consistency and consequences. if a story trains you that actions matter, you stay invested. if it trains you that nothing sticks, you stop caring.

it’s not about gambling on the ending, it’s about whether the ride feels like it could cost something inside its own rules. if your universe runs on saturday morning cartoon logic, don’t expect people to clench when the villain says “this time it’s serious guys.”

>>286426295
A man that can't appreciate the art of combat for its own sake isn't much of a man.

>>286427225
Still missing the fucking point.
How dense are you?

>>286426674
>James Bond's movies have no narrative stakes because the story literally can't progress if James Bond dies
James Bond literally died in the last movie and it fucking sucked.

This post reminds me of the people who complain when an album is enjoyable to listen to instead of being 2 hours of harsh noise and drone

>>286427756
You can keep your manhood psyop, thanks. They tried to use this exact same line on me when everyone was into football and cars while I watched anime instead, knew it was bullshit then.

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You are a woman.
Men thrive one violence even morally right ones.

>>286428558
>>286428541

Fate Strange/Fake is everything people claim JJK to be: Fighting for fightings sake with a nonsensical, pitiful "plot" to keep the illusion of a story afloat.
Why do people pile up on JJK when it blows other concurrent battle shonen out of the water when it comes to story involvement? If the populos allegedly only cares about flashy fightfaggotry, why is Jigokuraku being buried?
The truth is that it still requires a solid plot for them to care about and JJK undeniably has it.

>>286429014
after shibuya everything went to shit and all the characters are also shit

>>286426295
Do you ask the same questions during, say, John Wick or Bloodsport? The appreciation of the art of combat, the choreography, the emotional resolution to an unjust situation, the show of a martial artist's mastery of their craft, the technical accomplishment to depict a fight in a captivating way, be it camerawork & stuntwork or storyboarding & animation are all things that may let you enjoy the action genre. This goes for both live actin and animation. If you have trouble comprehending something so basic, then /a/ is not the place to seek answers from.

>>286429213
>Do you ask the same questions during, say, John Wick or Bloodsport?
yes, I don't watch that slop

>>286429014
why does all jjk discussion lack correct and intelligent post like this? every single day people will say "jjk is the most shallow shounen fightslop for aurafarming children and LITERALLY has NO story and NO characters and things just happen for NO REASON" and no one says anything.
>>286429168
no it didn't. shibuya is just like a 9/10 payoff of a the entire story coming to an apex, and the culling games is just the 8/10 second half of the story.

again jjk is not perfect but why do the most bland retarded people hatefarm and regurgitate the same shallow nonsense criticisms?

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>I lack testosterone

>>286429686
>shibuya is just like a 9/10 payoff of a the entire story coming to an apex, and the culling games is just the 8/10 second half of the story.
Based and true. Especially those who are really invested in the greater plot are being served well with the Culling Games. It has lore of the past, an expansion of the power system reaching its maximum potential, it finally includes the world outside of Japan etc.
All concepts that are much more interesting than betting on who is stronger, and it rewards those who think along and aren't just waiting for the author to tell them how to feel. Part of me wants to suggest that Shibuya is so beloved by everyone is that it's the easiest arc to follow and understand, in a way. The moment shit hits the fan it's just non-stop fighting between the strongest.

>>286427609
It sounds like what you're saying is, that you got immersed by the writing and believed there were stakes. Even though the outcome is decided you can get immersed. Otherwise it makes no sense.

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>>286426295
>I'm just so bored
you have low testosterone. shounen kino is not for you.

>>286426674
>the story literally can't progress if James Bond dies
Well, he could theoretically die in the climax of one movie and get replaced by a new agent 007 in the next.

Calling it action slop is a little ludicrous, but I'll admit, it normally doesn't grab me. Dragonball action worked for me (to some extent) because I enjoyed the comedy and grew to care about the characters. Yeah, they can come back to life, but it still got me feeling stuff when they suffered defeat. Of course, during the midpoint of Cell, I couldn't care much. With something like JJK or hell, even something as popular as HxH, I found myself unable to care about the outcome of a fight. Like, at one point HxH became about Hisoka and Chrollo for a bit and I just could not care which of those two won. They were just throwing random bullshit in an arena. Half of JoJo fights are like that too.

>>286426654
>>2mature4fireworks

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People fight is good
Good choreography is something you can appreciate just like beauty or the like, plus it's cooler

>>286437092
KINOmoto Days, cant wait for S3

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>>286437110
Same, it's got some of my favorite fights of the series

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>>286437092
>choreography

>>286426295
>What do people get out of [genre] slop?
>I used to enjoy [thing that happens in a genre], but these days I'm just so bored. Like even are the stakes?

>>286426295
>pic
I didn't feel anything either throughout that specific fight, but the ones in Shibuya were the exact opposite

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>>286427609
>youre getting hung up on facts and not opinions
god forgive me

>>286437645
Ugly gorilla.

A fight has nothing to do with "stakes", with things that happen in fiction. Any well-written fight in any medium places two characters in opposition with each other in a fashion that makes their conflict both inevitable and the outcome mean something to the characters. Writing fights is about creating motivation, about establishing reason. Think about sports, it's never just about "being the guy who wins". It's about the way the matchup you are watching came about. That's what makes it interesting.

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>>286426295
I don't know why, but the fight scenes in Precure, though short and not the most exciting, are incredibly captivating. I find watching cute little girls fight more entertaining than watching men fight.

>>286437782
wtf is this slop.

>>286437685
>other men should lust after the women i do so the chances of me getting cucked by those guys are higher
cuck

>>286437645
Why is this episode 9.4 on imdb again?

>>286437645
She's so damn hot holy shit

>>286437645
figure skating is certainly having its moment in the sun right now, it is a bit weird to show it like that

>>286426654
Do you think you're better than pretty colours?

>>286426295
>stakes
Stopped reading right there, "stakes" is a word you will only ever heard from midwits.

>>286426653
I'm going to say what this anon: >>286426674 said but less retarded.
There are several different types of enjoyment you can get out of media:
>The intellectual enjoyment of trying to understand the rules of the setting, and what the likely events of the story are (i.e. solving a mystery novel)
>The aesthetic enjoyment of appreciating how a story is constructed and how it makes me feel (i.e. seeing two characters get together at the end of a romance)
>The philosophical enjoyment of engaging with the themes/message of a story directly (i.e. watching a character overcome hardship and reject nihilism to achieve something)
"Stakes" in a story are how the writer creates and sustains the first pillar of enjoyment, and are the focus for the speculation for the reader. That could be "who will win in this fight?" but it could also be "will the king figure out the plot?" or "will he work up the courage to confess?".
A good writer understands the natural constraints that a genre has, and operates at multiple levels of stakes to keep the reader engaged and uncertain.
If you're older than a child, you understand that the villain can't actually end the world or the story would cease to function - but they absolutely can kill off the side characters, or permanently wound the protagonist, or cause incredible harm to the world.
If you're reading a rom-com, usually you know that the main pair are going to end up together, but that doesn't mean they'll be the same people when that happens - or that they can't hurt each other in the process of getting there.

Those layered ambiguities are the basis of "stakes", and I can't think of any good media which lacks them. I think it's even reasonable to call the central guiding motivation of the protagonist "stakes", even if intellectually you understand that it's a necessary conceit of the story that it is guaranteed to be achieved eventually.

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I just enjoy good animations and directions

>>286428841
Sounds like they were right.

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>>286429328

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>>286426295
Mostly because storyboards suck, fighting choreography is mediocre, and everything is wrapped with sakuga, as if sakuga animation was the only, or the most important, element of a good action sequence. Modern viewers like it, though. Mostly because it's the only thing they know.

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>>286428558
Based and true

>Midjutsu Shartsen

NOPE

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>>286426674

>>286426295
Watch ReZero for real stakes.

>>286426295
The action isn't even good. It's been well over a decade since an action scene in an anime had clean battle choreography.
This fight is still better animated than anything to have come out recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfWtcwIgdG0

>>286444468
I can practically feel the seethe from this image.

>>286426295
What do people get out of anime/manga/novels in general? It's all just a waste of time that people do out of addiction or because they want to kill (waste) their time having fun with this trash.
There is really nothing productive about it, and if anything, it only harms people's lives and society in general, but people do it anyway, some to entertain themselves and others because their brains are already screwed up and addicted.

>>286444717
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJszZYlmPeE

>>286426295
Imagine not understanding the beauty of motion? Do people really?

>>286444468
MHA is in the wrong spot.

>>286426295
What do people get out of vanilla ice cream, what are the stakes?
The flavor profile of vanilla ice cream should harken to an experience with tandem butt rape!

What do people get out of sex? They don't even want kids.

>>286444966
The kids are the stakes.

>>286426295
A good fight used to be well deserved like a well deserved treat after a meal. Usually one or a combination of build up, tension, hype, emotion, style, flow, impact, showmanship, choreography, and for animation, good easy to follow animation. Modern anime skips all that and just goes for the silly light shows and punches like a drug rush for the lowest of IQ. Like fighting game characters where 2 characters just see each other and immediately go "I SEE YOU LET'S FITE!!".

The pivotal definition of "slop" basically, which perfectly defines this generation of media. Pretty to look at but weightless and emotionless.

when did miserable millennials and zoomers in the anglophonic culture area start calling everything slop?

For me to enjoy a fight I need a compelling reason to root for a side, and that the fight follows meaningful buildup, similar to what >>286445072 said. That the MC X is fighting Y's lost cousin whose been plotting revenge for a decade isn't enough. Shit's boring. Animation quality is also very low on my priority list.

>>286445413
Maki fight was specially bad because it was too fucking intense when Maki was some shitty secondary character and people actually liked the Zenin.
It's even more hilarious because Naoya is more popular than Maki.
Pretty sure this would have been a lot better if it was Toji vs Zenin, Toji was just cooler

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>>286444468
>DUDE characters have to be dying and getting maimed left and right for me to care nothing else matters in stories!!
You can really feel the ripple effect from game of thrones hitting anime when people put up with crap like CSM2 just because lots of disposable characters die

>>286446149
Midwits forget that plot armor exists for a reason.

>>286427146
Dragonball had a "villain" successfully destroy multiple universes.

>>286440349
>I just enjoy good animations and directions
Then why did you post a JJK webm?

>>286446149
>>286446176
It's not bad for characters to die if a story treats their deaths appropriately and is prepared to deal with the void those deaths leave

>>286446202
did they wish them back

>>286444717
Wouldn't that battle be better if there were a building exploding or something?

>>286446408
Zamasu merges with Future Trunk's universe, so Goku gets god to erase entire universe.
But because it's future universe it doesn't really matter.
And Future Trunks relocates to another future timeline.

>>286442496
>sakuga animation
>animation animation
>animated animations

>>286444717
>characters randomly speed up and slow down
>characters stand still taking hits, and then immediately fly out of the way of other attacks
>0 impact to 90% of the attacks thrown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfutcvSxS4o
Tell me this action isn't clear or clean. Especially compared to fucking dragon ball lmao

>>286439437
I don't think stakes are necessarily dependant on reader uncertainty

>>286437092
meh. If you can't follow and if the moves are seneless, it just looks stupid.

>>286446697
If you're totally certain of the outcome, then what could the stakes be?
I'd say that by definition stakes rely on different possible outcomes depending on character actions and the events within the story. If the outcome is predetermined, then there are no stakes.
I guess you could be slightly more meta, and say that it's about the possibility of multiple branching stories at that point in the narrative rather than the actual possibility for multiple outcomes. That accounts for re-reads and spoilers too.

>>286426295
My take is that, people hitting each other is not inherently interesting.
An interesting fight needs twists and turns. Fights in Jujutsu are often very one-sided.

>>286447081
Outside of fights with Gojo, this is false more often than it's true

>>286447114
what do you call episode 4, s3 then?

>>286426654
Most people do.

>>286447238
Maki very easily could have lost to Naoya, and did lose to Ogi.
And I never said it was always false. Clearly fights like Maki vs the Hei or Gojo vs Jogo are meant to be stomps.

>>286426295
Its funny because action scenes on its own are boring. What carries is who's fighting who.

>>286429014
FSF has 10x more charm than JJK, you must be baiting. JJK is worse than every big shonen besides BNHA

>>286429686
>>286430002
Shibuya is a 4/10 of random unimportant fights of randoms and everything not Shibuya was a 2/10
Lore is not good writing.

>>286437703
Pearl post before swine

>>286445072
>>286445413
More pearls before swine.

>>286426295
>>286426654
movement, too. like with dance.

Slop thread

>>286449377
Couldn't disagree more, as I have disliked EVERY character introduced in FSF so far. It's impressive how boring and unimpressive they are.
When I have no one to root for, the subsequent fights naturally fall completely flat for me.
The writers should take a look at Ishura on how to introduce and build up fighters, as they have similar concepts but doesn't use the mythology backdrop as a crutch. It completely mogs FSF in that regard.

>>286426295
cool things are cool, it doesn't need to be more than that
you wouldn't go to the circus or to a boxing match and then complain that the performance didn't have enough narrative depth

>>286426295
I might enjoy a good fight, but for me the issue is the fact that most formulas and scripts are too predictable for me. It's all made up by the author. Maybe same reason why I hate bots in PvP games, I just like organic competition, unpredictability and stakes. Romance and slice of life I can enjoy just for the unique characters where it doesn't matter if the plot is predictable.

>>286426674
when goldfinger has bond strapped to the laser table you aren't supposed to be thinking "omg is bond going to die?" but "what entertaining trick will 007 use to get out of this predicament?"

now a better question is why so many people on this website are obsessed with action cartoons for preteens instead of the ones made specifically for manchildren?

>>286446802
Possible from an in universe context, not possible irl

>>286454681
is Jujtusu made for preteens or manchildren? I cannot tell

>>286426295
Gintama taught me the entire point of shounen fights is a physical representation of talk no jutsu
Also I like more grounded stuff, toujima wants to be Kamen Rider has been doing that really well.

>>286454853
you can tell the target demographic of a series by how the discussion goes. if a thread starts with a picture of characters fighting but 100 posts later people are talking about which girl they want to fuck it's for adults. if it starts with a picture of a half naked girl but after 100 posts everyone is talking about who beats who in a fight it's for children.

>>286446758
Are you female? Put your phone away and pay attention if you can't follow what's going on.

>>286426295
You simply grew out of it. The primary target audiance for chinese cartoons was, and always will be, teenagers.

>>286426575
Best series to come out of japan in the last 20 years

>>286426295
That's because modern action is just choreographyslop. Go rewatch ninja scroll or something.

>>286426295
Action can be great, but generic shounen is just ridiculously fucking gay. It's pure anti-masculine slop.