>>152676443
Half of it was an interracial plot

That whole thing, and The Three Jokers, was just Johns jerking himself off.

>>152676507
Three jokers was so pointless.

>>152676507
>>152676673
Johns attempting to literally make three Jokers and bringing in a second Batman biological child from the future (instead of just bringing in Earth Two Helena) and making the whole 2022 JSA run about her at the expense of basically everybody else make it seem like Johns was desperately attempting to leave his mark on Batman.
I bet he was cursing under his breath for having never written a mainline Batman run while writing that shit lmao.

>>152676507
In the end, Johns lost.

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>>152676507
THREE? What're you breeding them?

>>152676443
>>152676756
you've got to admit, leaving a villain named Nostalgia behind as you double-bird out of the DC offices in the 2020s has a certain power to it

this thread reeks of tom king and brevoort samefagging himself

>>152676507
Johns trying to write prestige "smart" comics is the funniest shit.

>>152676692
>leave his mark on Batman
Why are so many writers obsessed with "leaving a mark"? Who gives a fuck, honestly.

>>152676443
It's literally:
>put a chick in it and make it lame and gay

>>152676692
>>152676507
But why would Johns care about influencing Batman when he was also already responsible for Flashpoint? He created fucked up and brutal Thomas Wayne Batman, even if King was the writer who made him inescapable for a while.

>>152677031
It's not so much putting his mark on Batman, it's that Johns really wants to write a seminal, important story like the Killing Joke or Watchmen. The problem is that he's a stupid meathead unlike Alan Moore.

>>152676448
Explain?

>>152677102
He saw the new Rorschach was black and assumed he was fucking all the white women showing up in the book because all he does is watch porn of that.

>>152676877
Imagine having worked decades in an industry and watching everything you've ever made fade into nothing before your eyes? Knowing that because you dedicated yourself to being a whore for an IP company working with characters that were already established before you were born, nothing you wrote would even be canon for more than a few years at a time and none of your years of work would ever be remembered or even matter. If you had created your own comics you would have left behind stories that could have endured beyond your lifespan, but instead you worked for DC and everything you did was written on water.

You get older, and ask yourself "what have I done with my life?" and thats the answer you see before you.

Writers get desperate to leave their mark on these established characters because without it there is no validation. The people who made these characters in the first place will be remembered by fans and history. The hundreds of writers who have written them in the middle as an interchangeable carousel of staff? Not so much.

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>>152676802
I always have the feeling that all those Alan Moore and Watchmen threads are made by Tom King and Geoff Johns. They wanted to get all the praise being the new/“better than“ Moore, but get called out and so make Moore hate posts.

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>>152676800
There are several parts were you are like “That idea is promsing and interesting“.
But than it goes nowhere or goes for the shittiest conclusion.
Kinda like the Button got readers hyped up, than Doomsday Clock was published and readers where “What?“. Than “Ok there are points that can result into something good“ but than Readers felt like betrayed but the dumb stuff.

>>152676877
Leaving your mark is either having a highly successful run that impacts the character's personality/motives/etc moving forward or creating a highly successful villain/hero/supporting cast member that gets used for years after you're done or in other media. Miller's Daredevil is an example of the former, and there are many examples of the latter but one of the more successful recent attempts is Court of Owls.

Johns has definitely left his mark on GL, JSA, and Flash (among others like Hawkman) comics wise, but out of comics? GL has been poisoned by the movie and is about to be poisoned twice by that show about Kyle and King's shitshow. JSA are too obscure and while Stargirl was good, Black Adam poisoned the well. CW Flash was successful but just kinda threw random shit together and didn't follow most comics well beyond having established characters exist, and then the Flash movie again ruined the well. And in general Johns was spoiled by having been CCO and basically ramming a bunch of his OCs into other media for royalties.

Superman and Batman are THE characters to try to leave your mark on because they get so many adaptations there's high likelihood one of your OCs or plots will get adapted, which is mainly what Johns cares about.

>>152676692
Him creating a possible future Helena was kind of diluted by King having done it like 2 years prior.

>>152676443
I don't even know who this is, then again I think I speed-read the issues after a while.

>152677129
What

>>152678218
Pretty sure OP’s pic is the only page she’s on, and it’s the very last page of the whole thing. She only appears in three issues total, one issue of DDC, The Golden Age oneshot, and one issue of Flashpoint Beyond.

>>152676800
And then DC raised up and Johns vanity project line at Image failed. Johns lost hard.

bump

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>>152676443
I remember how the Legion of Super-Heroes were apparently supposed to be an important element in it, but whatever plans were there got cut off by the Bendis thing. Lame.

>>152679477
It's really funny that Didio allowed Bendis to rape everyone and everything with impunity, even the "veteran superstars"

>>152679513
>Bendis is Coming...
They were really banking on this guy, and I do not comprehend why.

>>152676443
I love how HBO managed to
>Write the scripts got their own Watchmen sequel series
>hire the cast and crew
>Film 6 episodes
>Complete all post production and CG effects work
>Air all episodes on a weekly basis
>Finish the project 100%

BEFORE Johns could fully publish this 12 issue series. and both began at the same time.

>>152679552
Name recognition. No one working in comics cares about quality, only generating hyper for speculators. Speculators don't care about quality, only "important" issues to buy in bulk today so they can sell them for an inflated profit years down the line.
Comic book shops ordering the latest issues don't care about quality, their job is to provide comics to their customers not to judge them for it.
So you have to get here, 3 levels down, before you MAYBE run into someone who gives a shit whether the comic is actually well written or fun to read. And a not insignificant number of people in this tier will read anything no matter how bad it is.

>>152679680
Because HBO had more people working on it.

>>152677058
It's still crazy to me how a stupid teahead like Moore wrote circles around everyone else.

>>152680909
In a land of 100s, the 115 is king.

>>152677391
I make Moore hate posts and I say King and Johns are hacks and nowhere at Moore's level

>>152677031
A better answer would be why do people think Johns would want to write a Batman ongoing? Johns pretty much has made it clear in just about every book he writes featuring Bruce, that he fucking hates Batman and has held a serious hate boner for the character.

>>152681218
He seems to only respect Nightwing out of the Bat-folks, while making Tim into some mini-Bruce with a barely hidden homolust for Kon and Jason into a weird Robin-cosplaying pissbaby who was "always wanting to be better than the Titans".

>>152676443
not fondly

>>152679680
The DC Watchmen actually had a lot of creative issues behind the scenes as Liedoff came in and made them throw out a huge chunk of the INO crap the previous wrote in favor of turning it into a BLM screed/Tulsa Race Riot propoganda, pissing off the suits so badly they forced him to have to change the FBI agent into Silk Spectre, create the Adrian Veidt subplot, and make Night's husband be Dr Manhattan/the Klan's leadership being the family behind the super hero ban to create SOME tenuous connection to the original mini, instead of it being 100% black supremacist crap.

Meanwhile, Johns explicitly rewrote Doomsday Clock to try and cool down the left wing extremist elements within the industry, going so far as to explicitly state that Veidt was a monster and Manhattan the true villain of Watchmen because he murdered Rorschach.

>>152681020
Hi Tom. You CIA cover ups dont work on me!

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>>152676877
You can make money of that. Thats kinda how Moore got big.

>>152681245
I've read the John's TT and Tim/Kon weren't anywhere near as gay as I expected after reading a lot of fan posts. In fact they weren't really gay at all, Tim just took his death hard. Hell it even felt like he made Tim have a minicrush on starfire for some reason

Now Jason was truly a deranged lunatic and it was hilarious

>>152681300
I genuinely don't understand how or why Lindelof still gets work. Everything he has ever written has been a dumpster fire.

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>>152678218
>>152678677
There were alot of loose end and things that never went somewhere. Doomsday Clock was envisioned as a starting point for different series or plots.

>>152681500
That's pretty much what Johns did with things like his Titans and the Lost Children, setting things up that didn't go anywhere or thinking other writers would be interested but they weren't.

>>152681300
How do you know that stuff? I can believe that HBO had this trouble. But i am curious if it is backed by gossip.

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>>152681510
Right, that happened. It was kinda weird. It didnt felt like a starting point, more like a Stargirl comic with several sidekicks he wanted to place into the JSA fluff. Maybe hoping others would use them.
But i can see why you can think that it was planned to start something.

>>152681380
That wasn't even Moore's project. Bolland hired Moore to write a Batman comic he could draw.

>>152680909
If you had a massive library of old discontinued books to plagiarize, you could, too.

>>152681819
Corky wasn't forgotten, he grew up and then died in the Time Masters mini-series.
I'm glad Johns is out. He's the worst hack of all time.

>>152678707
I'm sure he's crying into his gold-plated cereal that he eats out of a fresh teenage hooker's ass every day in one of his many million dollar homes as we speak

>>152681954
Everyone has had that for the last few decades and comic book writing is worse than ever.

>>152682037
>has had
>has not been doing
Do you see it now?

>>152682067
They have. Tom King plagiarized True Grit not long ago and it was awful.

>>152681892
Still Swamp Thing, Miracleman, Superman, Supreme shows that was his thing. Even if he was hired or choosen by him.

>>152678707
Did it fail? He still publishes Geiger, Redcoat and HydeStreet.

>>152681500
>not naked shota manhattan
Cowards

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>>152682318
Thats his megaform.

>>152681892
To be more exact; after the success of Camelot 3000, Bolland was told that DC would greenlight any project he wanted. Bolland replied that he wanted to do a Batman vs Joker graphic novel and that he wanted to work with Alan Moore.

Moore only did so if he had control over the story, which is where he came up with the idea to revisit Joker's origin. And Babs being shot was supposed to be left ambiguous until Len Wein asked Moore to permanently cripple her when Moore got cold feet over Babs being shot.

>>152679477
Has anything that bendis did in DC stuck? Because it looks like they paid him half a million dollars to destroy the good will that rebirth built up and then bury everything he did. I still don’t understand how Naomi got a live action show, did anyone care about the comic?

>>152682220
He was hired for all of those. They hired him because they liked how he wrote.
>Len Wein hired him for Swamp Thing because sales were low under Pasko.
>Dez Skinn hired him for Marvelman because all his first choices rejected him (though Moore was already interested in the character before; this may be because Moore just needed an flying brick character for his ideas).
>Julius Schwartz and Gibbons hired him for Superman because Schwartz liked Swamp Thing and Gibbons liked working with him.
>Rob Liefeld hired him for Supreme because he was a big name.
Your best example would have been Watchmen, since he intended to wreck the Charlton characters until DC said no. But really, it's not so much about leaving a mark, it's about writing a great story. Status quo doesn't really allow for that.

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>>152682451
the most significant thing people care about is aging up Jon which pretty much can never be undone because the next guy made him gay...erm "bi"

>>152682451
Unironically the only part of Bendis' reign at DC that anyone remembers is BENDIS IS COMING

And aging up Jon I guess.

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>>152682503
And Fraction spoiling Leviathan in Jimmy Olsen though no one realized it at the time.

>>152676443
I didn't even bother collecting the last issue.

>>152682962
>Leviathan
Oh yeah, that happened

>>152677102
Literally half the issues was just the Mime blacking his white gf and the comic rubbing it in your face, it had no relevance to the plot whatsoever

>>152677031
Along with what the other anon said about making a landmark comic, there's also the likelihood Johns knew Watchmen and Batman media were in the pipeline, not like you need an oracle for that with WB but still, and wanted to fix it so something of his would get considered should sequels be discussed, so basically royalty writing shenanigans.
A lot of writers since the 00s have been gunning for that sort of thing to coast through their career.

>>152682449
>gets asked to do Watchmen
>gets asked to do Joker
>gets asked to do Supreme
>gets asked by Jim Lee to do ABC conics line
So Moore is like Dr. Manhattan. Everything great isnt done by his motivation but he was always hired. Maybe LoEG is the only thing but i think it was more a fuck you to DC and using his Watchmen prequel ideas.

>>152681458
I think his stuff is watched and beloved by some (somehow?). So they still give him projects. Kinda weird but people seem to like his bland mystery boxes with good cinematic look that they will overlook the bad.

>>152682962
No one remembers Leviathan

>>152682460
Weird. I never thought about it.
And i would count Watchmen too. DC asked him to do Charlton comic. Than asked him to repurpose the plots he proposed for a different comic.

>>152683143
Alan Grant got Moore a job at 2000 AD because he liked how he wrote as well.

>>152679680
Gary Frank is slow and Johns didn’t even start scripting for a few months because he was working on the Wonder Woman movie and was sad about the election.

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I remember Brightest Day better than I do Doomsday Clock.

>>152677866
>GL has been poisoned by the movie
Not even. You can enjoy the comics without the movie creeping in.

>>152684237
Johns doesn’t care about comics anymore tho, he just cares about his works being adapted.

>>152684520
he wanted to get invited to Epstein Island