>>108293379
GNU/+Linux distributions exist, there is one already quite popular on ARM called Android.
Zero point in Windows there, it barely works on a desktop PC and still has DPC Latency issues on desktop CPUs.

>>108293379
You can only use linux with arm because it has the necessary compatibility layers and gpu drivers
but booting linux on arm is a huge mess
this is why most people are waiting for risc-v to mature

>>108293379
Windows have no needs for arms

>>108293419
The right to windows ARMs?

>>108293379
Users didn't want to use a platform with no software and developers didn't want to target a platform with no users.
They should have developed a compatibility layer allowing x86 software to run without modification.
Valve had the right idea with Proton, DXVK, and now Fex.

>Windows
>but can't run anything Windows is known for

Yes, surely this OS that kills the tentpole of the platform's selling point will be a huge success.

Just get a MacBook if you don't care about not running Windows shit.

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It reminds me of the problem I had this tablet.

It was an Intel Android tablet. It couldn't run ARM Android apps so it felt divorced from anything that brought value to the platform.

>>108293379
The sole reason to use Windows is legacy software, if you're gonna have to fuck around with compatibility layers, both Linux and MacOS offer a better experience.
>Muh anticheat gayms
Did those even work on ARM Windows?

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>>108293379
It hasn't even taken off yet, OP.

>>108293379
No third party support. No one bothers compiling their shit for Windows ARM.

bad translation layers
bad engineering
bloated and slow moving platform

>>108293379
Microsoft isn't really as good at rallying developers and users to a new architecture like Apple is. Third-party Windows developers just don't seem to be as passionate about Windows as Mac developers are about macOS or Linux developers are about Linux.

As soon as Apple unveiled they were moving to Intel back in 2005, Mac developers were already on the way, and the same thing happened for the move to Apple silicon back in 2020.

>>108293379
microsoft. its literally always microsofts fault somehow

>>108293379
no hardware. i have only seen 2 (two) windows arm devices. a samsung galaxy and a lenovo. both were overpriced

>>108293379
>No Win32 applications
Jeets, like Chinks when they copy the 'Eck, do not understand WHY certain things (>no trackpads) are coveted by customers.

>BUT APPL--
Apple provides translation layers. MicroSlop didn't do that for ARM, so who gives a fuck?

>>108295529
>Apple provides translation layers
Not only that, devs are actually expected to port shit, the translation layer is just there to not be left with zero working programs (Outside built-in shit like Calculator) on day one

>>108293379
there's some of what >>108295529 said, eg:
>Apple provides translation layers. MicroSlop didn't do that for ARM, so who gives a fuck?
to some extent yes, but it's also largely just a cultural difference

in windows (& linux) land, people operate under the assumption that needing to recompile a piece of software once every 10 years is an absolutely intolerable and near-impossible process
and having to do ANY change at all to source code on top of that (to accomodate removed/new APIs) is a violation of some kind of God-given rights to publishers
as a result, you get a lot more consistency issues, and tech transitions take decades

meanwhile in apple land, apple declares that the platform is moving to tech X (eg arm here)
if you don't adopt it timely, eg within a year, you can't publish non-bugfix updates anymore to their stores
then they just fucking remove support for whatever old tech you are sticking to
as a result, within 1 year you already ran something like 95% of arm-native software

the objective better choice would be for all tech platforms to stop accomodating lazy dinocorps that somehow lose the ability to fucking compile their software, or have so little respect for their end-users that they refuse to even bother doing it even at the cost of massive performance loss
but alas, it's always been trendier with contrarians to practice and encourage this mass flagellation for no good reason whatsoever

>>108293379
>why did the platform that was incompatible with 99% of existing software and doesn't let you install programs outside the appstore fail
'tis a mystery

>>108293379
Microsoft simply can't support any form of new hardware initiative and hasn't since...ever? Xbox was the only exception for a while, and even that got the axe. All they can do is run windows and coast of windows being the institutional standard for as long as possible. Selling licenses is all they have ever been good at.

>>108295836
absolutely no one wants the software they downloaded to stop working retard. imagine if the goberment sent some goons to throw you out if you refuse to leave your house because "it's not up to the new building code"

>>108295529
I hear it got one for X86_64 (since 10 or 11 idk). idk how good it is

>>108293379
qualcum overvalued their chip's ability on laptops and devices are/were all overpriced as fuck

>>108293379
No one needs ARM on windows. If people want something portable with ARM, they go for Macbooks. I unironically think Linux has a bigger future on ARM, than Windows does.

>>108293379
https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/16822147
https://rkblog.dev/posts/pc-hardware/pc-on-arm/x86_versus_arm_native_game/
Things are changing, but it might be too late. Let's see how performant the Nvidia chips are.

>>108295836
>(& linux)
Why the fuck are you lying? Linux has more ARM native software available than Mac and Windows combined, because it's open sausage and can be recompiled. Even RISC-V software is already going strong. Mac and Windows fags will rely on translation faggotry, while Linux and BSD chads enjoy native software.

>>108293379
Windows ARM fell so Windows LEG could run!

>>108293379
Not enough Indians involved with development so Microslop pulled the plug

>>108295836
>he objective better choice would be for all tech platforms to stop accomodating lazy dinocorps that somehow lose the ability to fucking compile their software,

No it isn't. As >>108295870 says: Nobody wants to have to rebuy software. iToddlers are told by Apple "either you upgrade and make the transition to our new chips, or your shit simply will not be supported."

Windows, for better or worse, has people thumb their noses to that and (IMO) rightly so. There's a reason WINE (on Linux) is a thing and able to run shit from *Windows 3.1* (and if you use DOS emulators, even earlier shit non-WINE) if you want that.

Even *WINDOWS* (non-special snowflake editions) can run Win 3.11 applications like the 3.11 clock on Win10 (not sure about 11, do not give a fuck about WinSlop 11).

MicroSlop keeps forgetting that ENTERPRISE is their stronghold and enterprises like Hospitals and the like run older versions of applications that do not have newer versions of their software on newer (if possible) versions of Windows when they are FORCED to, otherwise they stick to older Windows versions (and harden/etc. as possible) to keep using it.

Nobody wants to keep subbing to Adobe for Photoshop, which is why a lot of the "it's ALWAYS morally correct" meme has happened. Nobody wants to keep buying the same shit they already own because the OS company says they need to (besides iToddlers, who don't know better).

>>108295874
AFAIK, it's shit like Win 10 X/N/whatever the fuck special boy editions they keep trying to make for a specific purpose that everyone fucking hates because it just adds extra burden versus general purpose Windows.

>>108295870
>absolutely no one wants the software they downloaded to stop working retard
you miss the point; software keeps working because everyone involved did actually make ARM binaries
I just checked and have 0 x86 process running on my computer atm, and I didn't even think about it at any point, it just happened naturally over the past few years

>>108295898
>Why the fuck are you lying? Linux has more ARM native software available than Mac and Windows combined
I meant culturally, with regards to Linux. ARM support is great, but a lot of shitty defaults or dumb behaviour are kept until the end of times because backwards compat with a piece of software from 30 years ago is apparently more important than the entirety of software that will be written in the future and until the end of times
for example, see a lot of dumb shit in glibc
>Mac and Windows fags will rely on translation faggotry
if I were a betting man, I'd say apple is likely to gut Rosetta in the next 2 years, since it's already basically unused

>>108296057
>iToddlers are told by Apple "either you upgrade and make the transition to our new chips, or your shit simply will not be supported.
but it's the opposite though, it's the publishers who are told that, because it's in apple's best interest that users aren't beholden to old hardware just because some software dev can't be fucked to recompile once in a blue moon
>There's a reason WINE (on Linux) is a thing and able to run shit from *Windows 3.1* (and if you use DOS emulators, even earlier shit non-WINE) if you want that.
no, what I want is for software publishers to recompile shit once in every 15 years if it helps the entire industry move forward
I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation
(btw wine works flawlessly on mac, and none of this is an indictment of it; it's great)

>>108296103
(cont.'d)

>MicroSlop keeps forgetting that ENTERPRISE is their stronghold and enterprises like Hospitals and the like run older versions of applications that do not have newer versions of their software on newer (if possible) versions of Windows when they are FORCED to
wrong
hospitals run the software that a 3rd party built for them, usually at insane cost
it is the minimum of respect for said 3rd-party to maintain their shit, and to be expected it
the fact that airports and hospitals are taken hostage because recompiling is apparently too hard is just them being dogshit devs/publishers, and are enabled for no good reason whatsoever

>Nobody wants to keep buying the same shit they already own [...]
you're arguing against something that doesn't exist
free software got free updates, with free new support for ARM
it's just considered normal over here, since apple has sufficiently beaten up even the most dinocorps of dinocorps into not being utterly lazy and disrespectful to their users

>>108296134
>hospitals run the software that a 3rd party built for them, usually at insane cost
And those third parties...?

> you're arguing against something that doesn't exist
Apple is literally doing this, dork.

>Sub to GarageBand (or whatever the fuck they're calling it now)
HOWEVER:
>BTW, you can just continue to use your older version
Because they know pulling that band-aid off would piss off even Toddlers.

But ignoring that:

>doesn't exist
Adobe:
>We are no longer supporting CS1-7
>Sub or don't get any of our newer shit
So, yes: It does exist. You just think it doesn't because "people can just run their older shit." Why do you think subs are being pushed as hard as they are? Because they don't want people to have a perpetual license.

>what I want is for software publishers to recompile shit once in every 15 years if it helps the entire industry move forward
But why do they need to do that? There is no reason to do that outside of CVE's.
>Because the chip design and API levels have ch--
If your changing APIs to the point you're forcing developers to continuously have to rewrite all their shit, you're doing it wrong. I don't care if it's "15 years" or not. It's on the publisher, not the OS designer.

Like Windows can't even fucking make Settings usable past the Win32 era (which is why everyone uses the setting for the old 9x control panel, that's HOW FUCKING SHIT THEIR REWRITE IS). Why would I want that on "legacy" software?

>>108296232
>And those third parties...?
those third parties click recompile once every 15 years
hell if they ask for a bit of money for adapting a few things every 15 years, sure, everyone has to eat

>> you're arguing against something that doesn't exist
>Apple is literally doing this, dork.
but it doesn't?
6-7 years old laptops are still supported on the current version of the OS https://support.apple.com/en-us/122867

>BTW, you can just continue to use your older version
>Because they know pulling that band-aid off would piss off even Toddlers.
so... they are not forcing you to buy the new one then? what am I missing here in your own example?

>Adobe:
>We are no longer supporting CS1-7
>Sub or don't get any of our newer shit
>So, yes: It does exist.
adobe is malicious on their own, they don't need the help of any company for that
especially not when apple is a competitor in all of their market segments

>Like Windows can't even fucking make Settings usable past the Win32 era
sure, but here you're rather talking about UI choices that suck (in your opinion at least)
all of this thread is about literally just making the ARM binaries; nobody is asking for full rewrites or even refreshes
just the binaries. please.
this is precisely why I'm saying I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it, instead of having entire industries having to buy used parts or pay IBM and microsoft hundreds of millions a year cause they're fucked with trivial HW support

on that note, here's your regular reminder that this costs the linux ecosystem as a whole too; see the recent discussion on dropping 32 bits, where by and large supporting a few stupid windowsland software decisions is forcing distros & their maintainers to keep multilib shit alive
tolerating lazy devs has a real cost on absolutely everyone involved in tech, whether you realize it or not
and it's not fucking worth it.

>>108296355
>6-7 years old laptops are still supported on the current version of the OS
and before some brain challenged person misreads this
older laptops are also still supported way longer, just on the previous major OS version
for which software still works and security patches are still issued too

>>108296103
I'm going to point at the elephant in the room and state the obvious: incompatibility arises because of proprietary software. if companies had the source code for the applications they run, they could easily get shit ported
but alas, greed and retardation won out in the end and you have airports and railway stations stuck running windows 3.11 for their timetables

>>108293379
Lack of apps. That's really the only reason.

>>108296413
>I'm going to point at the elephant in the room and state the obvious: incompatibility arises because of proprietary software. if companies had the source code for the applications they run, they could easily get shit ported
can't argue with that
>but alas, greed and retardation won out in the end and you have airports and railway stations stuck running windows 3.11 for their timetables
it is disgusting, but it is also what we as an industry seem to tolerate, and even heartily defend
so it's not surprising that these corps won't go out of their way to budget and plan for long term maintenance and evolution

>>108296419
this. if it actually would have had apps, i would used it.

maybe it did not but it is not in consumer products

wince was kind of a cool in product but there were better products

>>108293379
Lies about performance, huge promises about compatibility, which were not delivered and premium prices for the unfinished product, all while competitors got better at battery life (the only advantage they ever had).

will it continue or will it die one generation in and never be heard from again

i asked Ai and it said that the performance tax for emulating x86 on ARM will only continue to improve and that as it does more and more casual people aka most of the market will end up buying windows on ARM laptops. It also said that WoA will never get as close as MacOS M chips because Macs redesigned literally everything hardware and software related to go full ARM something microsoft is highly unlikely to do but they can get pretty close

>>108293379
It was spearheaded by modern MS and Qualcomm. Of course it was never, ever going to succeed.

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>>108293379
because windows is garbage and arm is also garbage.

>>108293379
Because the only reason to run Windows these days is to use the vast library of Windows software. All that is on x86, and if you want to run it efficiently you get an x86.

>>108298069
This. Windows is garbage getting by on how fast x86 is. ARM is garbage getting by on at least somewhat efficient OSes. Combine Windows and ARM and you're garbagemaxxing. Terrible usability.

>>108293379
Because it was still Windows.

Apple has proved how to do migrations sucessfully between OSes and platforms for years, but Microsoft insists in taking shortcuts and not building emulation layers, nor support for universal binaries and tooling. They did from MacOS Classic to OS X, migrating to PowerPC, then they did the Intel migration and then did ARM.

So it fails because Microsoft half asses the job.

>>108293379
Microsoft allows development until people shift. That's when they buy and shut down, that way, if there is enough demand and genuinely good work, they can claim its market with little hassle

>>108300273
>Microsoft insists in taking shortcuts and not building emulation layers
microsoft literally has an emulation layer for x86/ARM i think its called PRISM

>>108293379
Modern day Microsoft are so bogged down by Indians that they aren't capable of anything anymore really. Just look at them manging to patch a RCEV into fucking notepad.
Kind of makes me miss the days when MS was a serious threat, nowadays the only thing they're threatening is their shareholders money.

>>108293379
from what I remember
>driver support from qualcomm was laughable
>api support was also substandard
not really surprising, for this to work microsoft would need to push them for quite a bit.

>>108293379
Windows is dogshit and extremely user-hostile nowadays. Everyone hates it, but it's widely used for its hardware and software compatibility. If you run Windows on ARM you lose both the hardware and the software compatibility, so all you're left with is a shitty, user-hostile OS in the full process of enshittification, so just bad software that will continue to get worse over time. Why use such a thing? It's pointless.

>>108293379
>>108293379
>>108293379
NOBODY WANTS A DIFFERENT CPU ARCHITECTURE YOU FUCKING DERANGED RETARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>108302418
it would be a literal non-issue if software could be recompiled. unfortunately, jewishness precludes that from happening

>>108293379
windows on arm failed because of qualcomm. they signed an agreement with MS to keep windows off of other arm chips. this led to a lack of competition. qualcomm sucks at drivers and is more concerned with walled gardens and IP protection than making a good product.

>>108293379
the question is also why did macos do so well with ARM, and the answer has to be rosetta, which made all old apps work

>>108302807
Most of this board is jeets who have never touched a macbook, but those of us in America will recall that going from intel->arm mac was completely painless. Day one, everything you needed worked, and within the first year every app had an arm version for you to download.

Microsoft wanted more bloat, they couldn't do that reasonably by restricting the total device ram to 4GB,

>>108293988
and they used to brag about UWP "apps" being able to run on it or regular Windows, but they hate their users, so they opted for a more proprietary approach. UWP apps were absolutely useful on W10P, and W10ARM, but I think they ragequit development because nobody was buying the hardware being marketed through MS, they used to have a product page type thing listing every peripheral, and iot computer supporting it, but most users were putting it on whatever e-waste they could find wasn't locked down. I remember a big thing they tried to break into was medicine, so they had all these smart watch/employee monitoring type things they believed everyone would buy, probably hoped to cash in price gouging like every other product related to medicine or the military.

>b-but muh iot W10/W11
This version of Windows ran on everything, including their discontinued phones, and their competitors phones, assuming you had access to an unlocked bootloader.

>>108302807
microsoft's translation stuff isn't bad. it really is all qualcomm's fault.

>>108303013
>everything you needed worked
that 30% performance penalty though :^)

>>108305004
It's closer to 5% in reality.

>>108305372
it's not outside of hardware-accelerated multimedia shit

>>108305441
you've never actually even used it.

>>108302418
i would not really care if it had an uefi/boot process and if they contribute to linux. Also maybe make it compatible with pc parts. (atx mb, pcie, ram slot, nvme, etc)