Who asked?

>>108300964
>every car accident is a skill issue, so we shouldn't have seat belts and airbags
Cniles think this is a winning argument.

>>108301169
You’re the type to believe Redbull gives u wings KEK

>>108300964
Yeah all of us know this, just filter out the jeets that are shilling these troons

>>108301169
case in point this retard right here

>>108301200
>this retard right here
/g/ literally buttfucked you in 2 posts.
you lost. kek.

>C assumes you're not an idiot.
Is that why it has loops and functions?

>>108301169
>car analogy
you are so retarded you don't even realize how disconnected the comparison is

>>108301169
If seat belts and airbags made it as tedious to drive as Rust makes it tedious to program, OP's argument would be reasonable in that context as well.

>>108300964
I don't give a single fuck about Rust's memory saftey autism. I use Rust because I refuse to deal with header files and cmake in 2026. That alone makes Rust a better language than C because I'm not wasting my time building what is essentially a fucking public api for shit that doesn't need it..

>>108301466
>US figurehead changes from blue to red
>Rust spambots switch from "muh safe space" narrative to "muh professional programming realpolitik" narrative
In case anyone ever thought Rust spam was organic. kek

>>108301169
Stupid comparison.
A computer is predictable, it does exactly what you instruct it to do and it never fail.
Streets/outdoor environments are unpredictable and every situation is different.
Men are not machines, they make mistakes.

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>>108300964
>Every memory safety bug you’ve ever seen in C use after-free, buffer overflow, whatever is a skill issue,
Yeaaaa, no. When you're working with a big code base, especially with multiple people of varying skills, it's cool having the compiler telling you your code is shit versus your program failing or having potential to fail without you knowing where and how. I'd rather wrangle with the compiler than comb through million lines of code.

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>>108300964
Dumb nü-cnile, recycling ancient worn-out talking points as if they're something new you came up with

>>108300964
The original creators of C wrote programs full of buffer overflows because they didn't care enough to avoid them. C isn't designed for 200-IQ safe programming and I have yet to see a large project pull it off.

>>108301659
>Stupid comparison.
>Men are not machines
I dunno about that, anon. I still think you should warn all your female relatives and acquaintances to wear a seat belt if they ride me.

>>108300964
cnile cope

>>108300964
-Wall -Wextra -pedantic -fanalyzer -Werror
Also, it was entirely unnecessary to make a new language for this so-called safety, as Fil-C has proven
>>108301466
You do realize that you don't actually have to put all your functions in header files, right? Only stuff used by other translation units. Also, cmake is great. Cargo is absolute dogshit. Languages shouldn't have package managers.

>>108301723
>Yeaaaa, no [it's not a skill issue]
>especially with multiple people of varying skills
?

boring. seething topics are boring. PHP was better.

>>108302095
That's actually really fucking funny, he himself agreed with it being a skill issue in the first sentence

Don't care. We just onboarded rust into the monorepo at meta and I'm going to write it because it's fun and I do not care what you say or think no coder

>>108300964
you rertards are the kind of shitheads that think safety rails or helmets are a skill issues
c was always a hack

>>108302095
My argument wasn't that it's not a skill issue. My argument was I don't want my code failing if I or someone else made a non-obvious mistake that would require re-checking that portion of code or the whole codebase.

>>108302229
>I don't want my code failing if someone other than me has a skill issue
Welcome to the real world, 80% of humanity has a skill issue

>still using malloc and free in the year of our Lord 2030 - 4
No one needs Rust to fix this.

>>108300964
><lang> devs
nocoder /g/eets give away their retardation in the literally the first word.
i guess it's impressive, in a way.

>>108302053
> Cmake is great
I want to smoke what you are smoking.

>>108301455
you're not the driver (user), you're the manufacturer, so yes, safety requirements make the production of cars much more tedious. they also save thousands of lives.
>>108301659
>A computer is predictable, it does exactly what you instruct it to do and it never fail.
C literally has a thing called unspecified behavior, retard. maybe you would be right if you were talking about other languages.

>>108302229
>My argument wasn't that it's not a skill issue.
Actually it was, and now that you realized how stupid your original post was you're walking it back. Here, let me remind you. This is what you posted:
>Every memory safety bug you’ve ever seen in C use after-free, buffer overflow, whatever is a skill issue,
Yeaaaa, no. Words words words words words

So you were directly responding to the statement that memory safety bugs are a skill issue with a refutation that it is not, in fact, a skill issue.

>>108302275
>you're not the driver
Except yes I am, you brown mongoloid. But I'm not surprised to see that Rust users are incapable of basic abstract thought or even grasping the braindead analogies posed by their own talking points. Now go ride the corporate bus.

>checks date
>it's March
>unis are back
>yet another jeet doing the "i never make mistakes in my uni course. therefore, it's a skill issue"
>not realizing that "the tool is good, it's just that ALL its users are retards" is both a common argument among clinical-level retards, AND doesn't paint the tool users, ALL of them, in a good light, even if that argument wasn't logically laughable
clockwork
well, at least retarded jeets will be shelled by them being stuck shitting out monkey-proof GCed code....ACK
https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2026/03/05/buffer-overflow-zlib-cve-2026-27820/

>>108302304
you're the brown mongoloid for thinking the world revolves around you.
sorry, grandpa. people have no patience for your memory safety vulnerabilities anymore. adapt or die.

I'm not paying for your memory safety just because you should've become a farmer instead.

>>108302304
a programmer is not an user anon.

>>108302380
>mentally ill troon projects again
You say the programmer is analogous to the car manufacturer. Are seat belts a feature of the factory, brown mongoloid? No. They're a feature of the car. Since, I manufacture programs, by your interpretation of the car analogy, memory safety is a feature of the program rather than the language. Good job conceding OP's point. Failing to put in "seat belts" in a program would be more like failing to do user input validation and letting the user accidentally delete his whole life.

I don't know if it's the third world trash or just the "AI" spambots, but it's virtually impossible to discuss anything on this board anymore just by virtue of how insanely unintellgent the "users" are.

>>108302273
Hm. I probably could have phrased that better.
Let me put it like this: autotools is hot fucking garbage. Anything is better than that mess of incomprehensible m4 macros.
I don't like meson for ideological reasons and the way it makes downloading garbage dependencies off the internet a core part of it packagers have to work around, but it's still better than autotools.
In an ideal world, people would just hand-write makefiles and use system libraries with no bundled dependencies.

>>108302414
See >>108302439
You're a mentally ill retard and I can't wait for your handlers to kill/sterilize you.

>>108300964
There is actually one genuine and devastating issue with C/C++. But its not technically the fault of the language, really its gcc and clang. Their malicious exploitation of undefined behavior. gcc and clang have done immeasurable damage to computing.

>>108302473
>waaah waaaah you can't "exploit" undefined behavior
>no, i WON'T actually define the behavior of my programming language
Nonbinary language design. Rust is also afflicted by this (no matter how much they try to lie otherwise) but to a much greater degree: what would be perfectly reasonable code in any other language is UB in Rust's unsafe blocks, which Rust's own stdlib is full of.

>>108302446
anon if you knew anything about car safety laws your logic is wrong, components need to by type approved themselves and inherently safe when possible
fucking coders know no shit about how the rest of the word works, and try to give lessons about their hacks as if it were being profesional

>>108300964
>It's just a skill issue!
And yet the most experienced C developers ever keep making these issues, over and over, with disastrous results.
>NOOOOOOOOOOO a car should not have brakes! Why don't you just predict traffic minutes in advance so you know how fast you can drive beforehand?

The C memory model assumes the kind of perfection nobody, not one person has ever demonstrated to have.
It's like seeing people say
>HEH, you can't swin in this volcano's lava? Skill issue! You're just not TOUGH enough!
And then you just see this line of thousands of people all jumping to their death. Every time one of them predictably meets their demise, the ones still left say
>HEH, skill issue! He just wasn't tough enough. But I am. You will all see!
Until they, too, die.

Also, you posted the wrong logo, you absolute retard.

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>>108300964
obviously the whole rust debacle is over jews thinking ((())))))(:::;;;;;;;)))()))((++--+-¥_) + makes more sense than malloc(scary number) for(not more than number) free(literally the variable)
the whole point is to make entry into C more difficult by drowning your brain in more higher language concepts, which will end in vibe coding being accepted into language cores and eventually the functional object slop will be completely unreadable, while trad one line functional will remain as the pillar of the internet

>>108302504
You're clearly a mentally ill retard and it's really uncanny to watch your LLM-like hallucinatory attempts to retroactively rationalize your failure to grasp your own cult's analogy.

>>108302498
I also like to remind people of this, but rust uses LLVM to emit code and LLVM regularly has compiler bugs.
So all those safety guarantees go out the window because the very thing they use to generate code isn't safe.

>>108302507
>the most experienced C developers ever keep making these issues, over and over, with disastrous results.
the entire industry is compromised with israelis and other foreigners who deliberately leave backdoors so they can bring on their apocalyptic 0 day.

>>108301466
you dont need cmake, i use exclusively my own makefiles, all that added complexity for "big projects" is often not needed

>>108302517
nigga, look the tables at the end retard
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2019/2144/oj/eng

>>108300964
Rust is just the safety craziness that affects other industries translated into programming
>nooooo you can't have sharp edges think of the children!
>nooooo you can't have manual memory allocation think of the manchildren!

>>108301169
>I couldn't debunk your argument, so I made one up so I could debunk it and then compare it to the original argument so you could think I debunked it the same way I debunked the fake argument I just made up

>>108302507
>you can't swin in this volcano's lava? Skill issue! You're just not TOUGH enough
Yes.

>Also, you posted the wrong logo
Want me to tell you how I know you are the type of person that wants everything to be academically correct because le paper said so?

>>108301939
> and I have yet to see a large project pull it off
Maybe because you can’t program.

>Linux’ open sourced kernel in c
>Windows’ NT kernel in c
>nginx in c

>>108302580
Terminal saying "segmentation fault" is literally the same thing as a car crash it has this big of consequences!!!!

*ahem*
https://docs.rs/you-can/latest/you_can/attr.turn_off_the_borrow_checker.html
This kills the crab. Your "safe" language literally has an escape hatch because it's useless without one.

>>108302594
>Windows’ NT kernel in c
isnt that very non standard C?
and that is more a statement of the age of the programs and not the merit
i could be like all banks infrastructure is in cobol, that doesnt make cobol good

>>108302053
He’s the type of low iq retard to believe static functions within source files need their own declaration in header files (because every function needs to be declared in a header!)

>filtered

>>108302610
> isnt that very non standard C?
I assume u mistook it for the linux kernel, and in that case,
Nope, it just allows extensions while still adhering to safety measures (obvious for critical kernel code). That’s just the linux kernel though. There’s almost no popular project solely relying on standard ISO C because it solely is a portable interface.

> i could be like all banks infrastructure is in cobol, that doesnt make cobol good
Except it does? What does (in this case) cobol being the only choice mean? Same reason why kernels and system dev mainly are c.

>>108302610
Can you please direct us towards Rust's ISO/IEC standard?

>>108300964
But I don't use Rust because of the safety meme it's just a better language

A language that doesn't allow changes to the ABI that are honored by the optimizer is, by default, not a better language than C.

>>108302594
And all three have these sorts of bugs. The people who work on them are empirically not skilled enough to pull it off. I don't know if anyone is skilled enough to pull it off at scale.

>>108302941
Like manual struct layout?

>>108303115
No, like indicating that parameters will not be written to, thus allowing the caller to reuse call stacks/registers. Or indicating that the return value is actually supposed to be written to another register because I don't feel like wasting 3 + padding bytes for a register rename after every single fucking call.

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>>108301466
This is literally how I got into Rust as well. based TRVTH SEEKER

>>108302594
>nginx
>configuration language can cause a segfault
>esoteric, buggy and difficult to correctly use
>people are literally moving to Go-based alternatives or HAProxy, even for neue-aged container shit

>Linux
>every new feature is 100% CVE bait waiting to be GAPED that Google just outright bans them as they come out for their forks and Android/ChromeOS

>Windows
see: Linux.

>nooooooooo you can't have your computer actually do anything useful
>you have to struggle with unspecified invariants that the compilers you work with already STRICTLY enforce through junk code gen if you violate them

C cucks are literally retarded and insane.

>>108303762
>people are literally moving to Go-based alternatives or HAProxy, even for neue-aged container shit
Even if that was the case, the higher level code in question, would end up invoking a syscall for the os which ultimately is c

>>108304165
For now

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>>108300964
>Every memory safety bug you’ve ever seen in C use after-free, buffer overflow, whatever is a skill issue, not a language issue.
Yes, but it can be solved at core of the language. C has other issues, like the C library being shit and error prone.

>C built trillion-dollar infrastructure. your OS. your browser. your database. all of it. Linux has been running the internet for 30 years. It's fine.
Ad populum fallacy. Just because slavery was the norm for thousands of years, it doesn't mean it's good.
https://rentry.co/g7aofwhc

C vs Rust is a false dichotomy. Rust is basically an improved C. The only way to defeat Rust and have a better PL is to admitting that C is bad, incomplete, and it lack of semantic clarity.

im not sure why retards always confuse the goals of both c and rust. c is the de facto systems language because everything is written in it. no ffi will ever cause c to become obsolete. rust is competing for high performance user land programs. rust is in the same category as c++ and go. fast languages that provide useful abstractions. this is because when you write these sorts of programs what is actually happening is less important, provided it does what you need it to.
>If you can't handle managing your own memory, that's valid. Use Python. Use Rust.
you clearly do not understand anything.

>>108304500
What are you talking about? There are kernels written in Rust and it's used for some modules in the Linux Kernel.

>>108300964
>skill issue, not a language issue.
If every relevant C code base (especially all the Oonicks shit it was specifically designed for) was then clearly written by people who aren't skilled enough. Sounds like a great reason for the vast majority of all that trillion-dollar infrastructure (which all had bugs like this) to be rewritten in a language for lesser beings, and leave C to enlightened undergrads like yourself.

>>108300964
>the computer does exactly what you told it to do
try developing autonomous robots for high-radiation environments for a year and tell me that again

>>108300964
>If you can't handle managing your own memory, that's valid. Use Python. Use Rust. Use whatever. but don't pretend C is broken because you dereferenced a null pointer one time.
t. the people that brought you gets()

>>108304500
>no ffi will ever cause c to become obsolete
You can have Python loading a C++ library that talks to Rust programs just fine without C anywhere. Just because they use your system's default ABI (colloquially called C ABI) doesn't mean they need C for anything.

>rust is in the same category as c++ and go.
Rust and C++ are systems programming languages. You can use them to write kernels, drivers and other bate metal software. This makes them systems programming languages.
Go is a managed GC language made for webdev. It's more similar to Node or Python than C++.

>>108304420
The power of c is that it lets the lead calculate these kind of risks. If == would cause an unacceptable bug then everyone is using the ASSIGN(x, y) macro. If that tradeoff doesn't make sense then they don't. Simple. Rust might be an improved c for the kind of program you want to write, but not all programs, this is what BDPL advocates will never understand.

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>>108304420
>>108305024
Not a problem in this century, just like all the other skill issues people post here.

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>>108305024
>The power of c is that it lets the lead calculate these kind of risks
No, it doesn't.

>If == would cause an unacceptable bug then everyone is using the ASSIGN(x, y) macro.
Now we have warnings and linters because of this, but it doesn't mean that this kind of syntax is acceptable. It's the same for logical and bitwise operators, and it's even worse because early C didn't have a real boolean type.

>Rust might be an improved c for the kind of program you want to write, but not all programs, this is what BDPL advocates will never understand.
Am I supposed to know what BDPL means? So, you're basically suggesting that a language with higher abstractions can't be used to program something like an OS or low-level stuff, but even a high-level language with the right features can be used for that. And even if you’re right, a language should be designed for general use rather than for a specific case.

>>108305127
If you read that screenshot you will see the reasoning behind why = is used. If you decide that isn't needed you don't have to use it. With rust you are forced to use every feature of the language even if you don't require it, friction builds on projects where it's completely irrelevant.

With rust you try Assign! and you'll end up with
assign!(x, y.unwrap());
which unknown to you panics LOLOLOL

>>108305203
>If you read that screenshot you will see the reasoning behind why = is used.
I don't see why it can't be like (assignment is not equality):

a:=b:=c

>With rust you are forced to use every feature of the language even if you don't require it
Yeah, Rust isn't a great language, it only has good tooling and the false illusion of security.

>>108305266
Well aside from the semantic history not making sense
Again you fail to see the value in decreasing friction = will be typed and read often. Where it doesn't matter take the lowest friction path, where it does you can increase it.
Anyway why not #define a =
again problem solved.

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No one is impressed you can write a hello world program in C without a segfault ranjeesh, try making actual software in a language without generics or collections and come back when you have results.
By the way no one is impressed you rolled your own HashMap for the hundredth time.

>>108301169
They hated him because he spoke the truth

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>>108301466
Fact
Cniles only have one retort against Rust, the old “muh memory safety is a skill issue”, when most people are actually productive programmers who don’t want to rewrite HashMap or Vector for the thousandth time, don’t want to duplicate definitions in a header and source file, don’t want to learn an esoteric scripting language just to build a project, and don’t want to use gay underscores to prefix symbols instead of using namespaces like a normal persons
Cniles lost the plot and only Indians who pretend to be software wizards like Richard (((Stallman))) and his faggot finngolian boywife Linus Jeetvalds do this

>>108301466
>I'm not wasting my time building
>Rust
LMAFO

The amount of cope Cniles have for headers
>saar its a public interface even though if i wasnt retarded id just have good doxygen comments
>saar i have to hide implementation from users even though i am either using headers myself meaning i wrote the implementation or someone is using it as a library meaning they have the source code anyway
>saar duplicating code is actually good because it makes you remember what you wrote

>>108305492
Saars are the only retards who care about public/private interfaces in 2026
Again, headerfiles aren't part of the c language. It's entirely a convention that can be thrown away if it causes too much friction.

>>108305512
No normal language uses includes in the big 2026
Not even C++ uses them anymore, they added modules ages ago

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>>108305369
Assignment is not equality.

>>108300964
I'm you but better.

>>108305555
Waste of quads. C doesn't use headerfiles AT ALL