Thread #108552924
/gedg/ - Game and Engine Development General #341 Anonymous 04/07/26(Tue)23:24:02 No.108552924 [Reply]▶
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I cant blend edition
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Use C.
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>>108553765
midi is a standardized instruction set
old audio hardware could directly accept those instructions and generate audio signals from them
modern hardware uses software layers to convert those instructions into something that the hardware can actually understand (aka emulation)
maybe fact check yourself with chatgpt next time before embarrassing yourself on the internet
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>>108553750
Integrated audio chips dropped midi support around Windows XP era. Unless you have a discrete audio card, any midi playback these days is done in software. Anyways even in software it's trivial, you can even write your own midi system. Just be careful with soundfont licenses.
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I only realized now I wanna make games and I'm in my late 20s now. Its done I'm done. I don't know anything and have zero skills. Some people are just like that. They realize it too late. And they suffer for it. I deserve to suffer. I deserve everything that's happening to me. Why the fuck I didn't realize what I wanted to do AT 16 LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. goddamn man I deserve to go back in time.
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>>108553967
>transsexuals are the most likely to vibe code
LGBTQ+ adults, particularly transgender individuals, express the highest levels of concern regarding AI, with 95% worried about the removal of human oversight in safety systems and 94% concerned about bias in content moderation.
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With AI you win
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>>108553991
#1 you're generalizing based on the handful of transsexuals that you follow on bluesky
#2 you can't even tell if someone is transsexual just by looking at them, some of your favorite devs might secretly be transsexual, maybe even a family member or that girl you used to date
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>>108554001
Sure, bud.
https://www.lgbttech.org/post/bias-privacy-and-promise-what-lgbtq-adul ts-say-about-ai
https://www.forbidden-colours.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/240130-Re port-on-LGBTIQ-AI.pdf
https://www.correlation-one.com/blog/llgbtq-people-ai-algorithmic-bias -harm
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s43681-024-00423-8
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>>108554032
Actually the people who believe this are primarily gooners who still in 2026 do not understand that the man they are gooning to is using an AI filter to make their face look like a Korean vtuber.
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>>108554050
saar...
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>>108553694
die
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>108554074
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>>108553774
>>108553761
you sound retarded and heres why
hardware implementations of midi are as arbitrary as the software implementations
there is no one standard sample set, you are ignorant as fuck and dont know how to use google
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>>108554122
>>108554137
Is this the same guy making every retarded post in this thread?
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The only book you will ever need.
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>>108554525
made my own graphics/network/game engine in C++ / OpenGL, I feel like people optimize way too much for their solo projects. Implement first, and go back and optimize when needed. You'll speed up your process tremendously. probably doesn't hurt to read that book though.
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>>108554577
99% of optimization is just understanding the task you're actually trying to perform and using the right data structures for it. Structuring your project sanely from the start isn't what they mean by "premature optimization".
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>>108554525
Skimmed through it on archive. The sections on tooling are completely deprecated. It has a good summary of basic optimization strategies which were probably novel to a lot of people in 1992, but are either obsolete or common knowledge in current year.
Could be useful if you were doing something like retro console dev where your compiler probably sucks or you might even be using assembler.
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>>108554553
>quake source code
games like doom and quake are more remarkable for the performance of their rendering algorithms which is going to be lost on you unless you have a computer science background, the programming itself isn't particularly amazing, doom at least has a lot of hacks and ub (intentional and unintentional) that you'd want to avoid
about the only game I often hear as some kind of "holy grail of programming style" is doom 3, which is otherwise completely unremarkable as a game, and from what I can tell it's mostly just c++ programmed by someone who clearly wanted to be using c
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>>108554859
>>108554964
thanks anons :)
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Is this book even real? Nobody seems to know for sure and it's not on any of the piracy sites.
Note it's the 2nd edition supposedly released in 2025.
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>>108555732
Better lighting.
>>108555753
>only applicable to 3D
No?
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>>108555958
>frank luna
so it'll be the same baby's first introduction to matrix algebra he's copy/pasted word for word in every book for the past 30 years, followed by the complete text of the 1st edition, followed by a note that you can also do raytracing now
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>>108554083
Do it faggot
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>>108555958
yea i have it, its a very minimal introduction to dx 12, half of which is copy pasting "call this function with these parameters. heres what the arguments are, copied directly from msdn, without explaining why we use his choices" and the other half being copy pasted from his previous books
its barebones and piss poor if you want to make an actual engine
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>>108553891
Neuroplasticity be damned, just learn2code. I think I did my first python tutorial at ~23 and now I'm 26 and I'm making the autism engine of my dreams in C. No classes, just check out the book from your library and google shit if you don't understand
wagmi
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>>108553891
>late 20s
Wow truly you are a senior citizen, have you been checking out nursing homes yet? Shut the fuck up retard, you're just coming up with excuses to avoid hard things.
>Why the fuck I didn't realize what I wanted to do AT 16 LIKE EVERYONE ELSE
The vast majority of people don't realize what they want to do in life even at 61.
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>>108555958
>>108557065
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d12/directx-12- programming-guide
Literally all you need. Everything is described in autistic detail, it has links to dozens of sample projects that show you how to use every feature, and it even has the full source code to "MiniEngine" or whatever it's called that you could literally git clone and make a game in if you wanted. Literally the only thing a book could provide is half assed paraphrasing.
If you can't follow it, you don't need a DX12 book, you need a C++ book and probably experience actually building projects, Windows programming, and using libraries.
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>>108557104
Why are you even in this thread? DirectX provides every single feature you need to make a game. Direct3D is just one component.
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>>108557092
i pirated it, and only did so because i hoped it would focus on how to effectively use all the new tech, without the clutter in other sample projects. unfortunately he glossed over async command list generation, parallel queues, and using fences for async resource generation. oh well, at least i didnt spend a single cent on some pretend programmer giving a tldr of the msdn docs for like 20 or so functions
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you ever wish you could go back to 2006 but with all the knowledge you have now about gamedev
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>>108557208
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Trying to do terrain generation purely via simplex noise and fractal brownian motion. The goal is to be able to easily zoom in so I don't need to work much on the small-scale terrain.
Current approach is small-frequency continent+plains mask, high-frequency hills mask and a ridged-fbw mountain mask.
The plains and hills stuff looks good, but the coastline and continents in general kind of suck.
I tried to do a continent-seeding thing where I randomly seed the continents and add another mask for that but it doesn't seem to work well, at least not how I wrote it.
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>>108557035
huh raylib seems to have some issues at least on my machine, first of all fullscreen borderless windowed mode blinks black whenever focus shifts to or away from it, second the window is always drawn on top of all other windows when in borderless windowed mode which kind of defeats the purpose, and third it seems to have intermittent hitching in all modes even with vsync enabled and regardless of whatever you set the target fps to
I'm guessing all these issues stem from the cross platform window library it uses but it doesn't really expose a lot of functionality to fix it
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>>108554989
>which is going to be lost on you unless you have a computer science background
Yeah bro you need a college degree to research things. I learned just fine with it by porting the engine over to directx 9 a long time ago. I just did hands on approaches with everything. most efficient way to learn? maybe not but it was the most practical. Now it doesn't even matter.
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>>108557531
nvidia control panel, 3d settings, vulkan / opengl present mode (bottom of list) -> set to DXGI
I don't know how AMD or intel behaves by the way.
You can emulate OpenGL ontop of DirectX to get the same effect without needing to tell users to toggle this option.
I bet Raylib has an option to select a OpenGL es backend (it seems you need to build it), so then you can just use Angle (NOTE, GL ES can be loaded from the OPENGL profile AKA through WGL, OR it could be loaded directly from GL es binaries, AKA you need to load libGLESv2.dll (which requires libEGL.dll instead of WGL) not opengl32.dll inside system32 for Angle to work), which means that it might be impossible for Raylib to use Angle unfortunately. I just copy the DLL's from chrome/edge.
You can use Mesa3d which should "just work" by putting the DLL's beside the binary (uses d3d12 by default, zink is SLOW), it works with Desktop GL, but it's a lot larger (~100mb).
https://github.com/pal1000/mesa-dist-win
Also I was going to write a long essay about how this problem is not related to Independant Flip, but it turns out that in windows 11 all DX11 applications (including Angle) will use independant flip, and it seems like intel presentMon shows "compose: Copy with GPU GDI" incorrectly for Angle, when it's probably does use Independant Flip.
System > Display > Graphics > Change Default graphics settings > "Optimizations for windowed games".
However... when I use angle with "EGL_DIRECT_COMPOSITION_ANGLE" (SDL+hint) which shows "Composed: Flip" in presentmon, it does feel a little bit different (while resizing the window), but I don't see any FPS increase in particular from my testing.
Also while resizing the window, I usually see a black section of the window, this is probably a OpenGL issue. But when I use angle with vulkan selected, it fixes it (but it lacks Flip, and there is one bug that breaks the windowed mode if you press the windows button while in fullscreen, so I don't use the vulkan backend).
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>>108558795
*OH I deleted my post because I thought raylib rlgl was not a header only library. But it does mean you can't switch between deskop and Angle GL which I think is pretty lame. L on raylib for that because from my testing, 99% of GL ES is compatible with Desktop GL, you don't need different functions (but I think this is more of an issue with GLFW than raylib).
Yes you can just set #define GRAPHICS_API_OPENGL_ES2
and Angle will be loaded if you copy the DLL's.
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How annoying is it to make an engine that can be compiled for the web AND desktop?
I think WASM doesn't have the ability to allocate memory at all, there's just a big chunk of memory you have to live with. OpenGL-ES also doesn't support persistent buffers. That's all I know.
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>>108559196
>but I think this is more of an issue with GLFW than raylib
*it's not, nevermind. GLFW isn't the problem. It's just the raylib API requiring macros to set the GL to ES.
>>108559199
It's really annoying. Also persistant mapping can mean 2 things, you could be talking about glMapBuffer, which isn't real on emscripten, it just uses scratch buffer using malloc. And persistent memory that has a ton of fences manual synchronization and stuff (GL ES 3.1 might support it, with EXT_buffer_storage, but webgl will probably never support it). But that feature seems to be purely made for multithreadded rendering (AKA, everything in opengl is not thread safe, except fences and sync objects, so you can just write to that buffer on another thread as fast as you need, while the main thread does all the draw / state execution).
The first big problem is that itch.io and github pages will not give you a site that has the HTTP header that lets you use SharedArrayBuffer (required for threads to share memory) and precise timers (default timers are only 10ms accurate or something), specifically you need a secure context and cross-origin isolated. So you need to host your game on your own server which will make the $100 steam fee (that is refunded after $1000) look very cheap.
The #1 problem is that I personally feel that webgl just feels sluggish no matter what you do. webgpu won't fix it, nothing can fix it. Also different browsers run wasm / webgl differently. The sluggishness matters a lot if you intend on making a game that is 3D or has effects following your mouse cursor / drawing. But you can treat the web version of your game as a demo, in theory.
Webgpu is for compute shaders. webgl has feedback transform which isn't great. both webgpu and webgl are both missing geometry /etc shaders, and I don't know if webgpu will ever get those shaders since I think there is more hype around webgpu AI's.
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>>108559446
>you need to host your game on your own server
That's only a problem if you have bloated AAA assets, haven't seen anyone here make a game like that.
>webgpu
Isn't that just a wrapper on top of webgl? That's what I read when I looked into it, but I immediately lost interest so maybe I didn't read enough.
>precise timers
I had the impression that requestAnimationFrame is similar to vsync.
>will not give you a site that has the HTTP header that lets you use SharedArrayBuffer required for threads
??? What's even the point? That seems like it defeats 99% of the purpose of having threads. I'm surprised all the unity/godot games work with that kind of limitation.
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>>108559734
There's a barrier of entry to playing a game when it has to be downloaded and installed first. Being able to play the game just by going to a webpage makes it infinitely more accessible and significantly more likely for people to try it out.
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>>108559446
>I personally feel that webgl just feels sluggish
*To be specific, the games feel like triple buffering (it's kind of doing that, since your webgl surface is technically an offscreen texture I believe)
So if the game runs at 144fps + 144hz monitor, you will feel almost nothing, but if you are running with a 60fps monitor + the game runs around or below 60fps, it will make the game feel much worse than a native game.
*Also I think the timer has a 1ms resolution, not 10ms.
here is doom3 demo in emscripten for fun:
https://wasm.continuation-labs.com/d3demo/
>>108559686
>Isn't that just a wrapper on top of webgl?
Nope, and surprisingly webgl is officially supporting webgpu as a backend even though at the moment nobody is asking for that. but hey, maybe if they add new features to webgpu, webgl will get those features through angle (hopefully the browsers in the future will include Angle, so we don't need to run Angle in wasm...).
>??? What's even the point?
Technically the most important requirement for threads would be audio, and audio is already easily handled by web audio worklet / webaudio web worker stuff (emscripten and libraries handles it for you, so you can just use SDL or OpenAL or miniaudio or whatever and it will work)
Web workers work fine but they don't share memory, the memory needs to be sent in channels.
Side note: The backend emscripten code tends to avoid wasm a bit because it's a bit harder to debug (maybe?), and wasm doesn't support async stuff and exceptions very well (and there is an overhead when you switch between JS and wasm).
And I believe timers could be helpful for low level audio stuff. Not sure exactly what, but it's there somewhere.
timers are also important for showing the FPS and showing a little UI performance measurement thing if you have one (it's good enough for showing the FPS, but if you wanted something fancy, you need more than 1ms resolution). Obviously, users don't need that, but it's annoying that it's broken.
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>>108559746
I always hear this but I don't get, don't you basically have to make a patreon and pray that people discover your game? It seems like more of a gamble then the traditional route of releasing a game on Steam with a proper paywall
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>>108558795
>"Optimizations for windowed games".
I should have probably tested it before I mentioned it, the option does not seem to do anything (maybe it's for a list of popular games that work). So right now it just seems like using DXGI is the only solution.
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Oh look, another small refactor turns into a massive one.
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its ludover
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cfags BTFO
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>msdn documentation
>everything makes sense
>actual source code to a real engine
>90% incomprehensible slop that was never mentioned anywhere in any docs or book
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>>108562384
Your indieslop.exe probably isn't potentially consuming more resources than the computer running it even has so you don't need to request or query shit. You don't need some kind of custom exception handler. You're probably just using built-in types and not reinventing the string for maximum performance. I have no idea what SetErrorMode does but I'd imagine it sets some kind of error mode which you probably don't care about. I have no idea what InitializeCriticalSection does but it's probably related to multithreading which you're probably not doing or you're doing through language features rather than directly through OS calls.
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>not even manually setting your system fpu precision
and you call yourselves gamedevs? your entire game is probably broken because you forgot to do this
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>>108562609
No.
/thread
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>Minecraft adds Vulkan support
>Hytale announces 3D chunks
All of a sudden the things I was excited about that would my Minecraft clone unique aren’t so anymore. Nonetheless I still have advantages on my side: time, no gayreaucracy, and no lofty aspirations of an ecosystem. C++ too I guess, among some other various tidbits. The good news is my new Vulkan backend is coming along very nicely. I just need to finish implementing the descriptor heap manager before I can take it on a real test drive. The downside right now is that renderdoc and nsight don’t support the descriptor heap extension yet. It’s not a move killer or anything but I wish renderdoc could launch like nsight at least since I prefer that interface more.
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I'm doing it
I'm vibecoding
I'm a winner
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>>108563982
nooooooooooooo
I ran out of tokens to feed grok
it's so over
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>>108562994
>>108563002
I'm also optimistic
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code written by the udderly deranged
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it does nothing of value and it already has a memory leak but at least it compiles...
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>>108565796
Thinking about it logically there are 2 possibilities, the hardware doesn't support a feature that the game relies on, or the drivers don't support a feature that the game relies on.
I guess a 3rd possibility exists where the devs detect Intel ARC and then deliberately crash the game.
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>>108565779
I want to go back
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Single Threaded Async Tergain Streaming.
The chunk render distance is only 7 atm, but that's merely a space issue. The point is that single threaded async terrain streaming is working.
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>>108567379
Not really, it's going to increase the amount of utter dog shit you see on Steam mostly. But don't worry the devs who were already going to make good games are going to be able to do so faster with AI.
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>>108552924
I am stuck in hellworld doing webDev to pay my bills when I know how to do gameDev and want to make my living that way but can't afford to get off this fucking webDev treadmill. I'm like an actor waiting tables in Hollywood dreaming of their big break while I scrape other people's half-eaten food off their plates into the garbage can along with my dreams
Why is webDev so god awful? I could make this shit blazing fast optimized af with lightweight code building it from the ground up with no dependencies but they're forcing me to use this bullshit infinite stack of garbage libraries to do the simplest shit and no one gives a fuck that it takes multiple seconds to do literally everything when it should be taking fucking milliseconds. SINGLE DIGIT milliseconds
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>>108567513
I was in your position so I quit my job, now im unemployed but happier
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>>108567815
>>108568195
Looks pretty comfy to me
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>>108554017
>>108554022
samefaggot
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>>108569634
>>108569644
obsessed
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forgive me for what im about to do (pollute the world with more slop)
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i like ai because it answers all my gamedev questions without calling me a dumb tranny
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m_commandList->ResourceBarrier(1, &CD3DX12_RESOURCE_BARRIER::Transition(m_renderTargets[m_frameIndex].Ge t(), D3D12_RESOURCE_STATE_RENDER_TARGET, D3D12_RESOURCE_STATE_PRESENT));
23 years later and the DX12 sample projects still contain UB that require you to disable conformance mode to even compile...
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imagine an incremental upgrade game but the upgrade tree is ai generated in real time so it goes on forever
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>>108569959
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>scrolls past 15 different ai generals on /g/
>sees /gedg/
>"the perfect place to talk about ai!"
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>>108553985
Still not like the artist imagined it.
AI still fills the gaps of what the artist didn't correctly described in his 10-paragraph-essay-prompt.
Hopefully at some point level designers will get tools to create and generate/edit in live as-he-draw such scenes, with pen precision. Until then, it's just AI showing what it's willing to understand from our written language.
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>>108571103
>no game
>no engine
>pepe post
>luddite
checks out
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>>108571970
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>>108572043
This, I don't get why we changed to Game AND Engine, all it does is invite retards like these. Not like anyone was going to be able to tell if you were working in Unreal or something provided that the stuff you posted was about a C++ system and not "guys how do i drag bp wire???".
Now we have /agdg/ scriptkiddies shitting up the place, and we should count ourselves lucky that the dragonfucker from the /v/ gamedev threads is too stupid to navigate to other boards.
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>>108572043
what's stopping you
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I'll let you in on a secret, any open unmoderated forum about gamedev is going to be 99.9% retards who have never even tried to make a game and just want to argue and complain about things that don't affect them
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>>108572343
no 4chan gamedev thread was ever good
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>>108572349
There was a time... long ago... before the bots, before the jeets, before the transvestites...
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>user drags the window so it's split across 2 monitors
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>>108572647
I've been porting my Windows [spoiler]7_[/spoiler] codebase to Linux but I'm procrastinating because it crashes and I don't know why or where.
>just learn GDB
I can't be bothered to. I'll use a debugger when Raddbg works.
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>>108572670
you can get a very minor performance penalty from caso copying. i have an option to lock a window to the monitor that the adapter is hooked up to, or force recreation of the device and swap chain when the window is moved to another monitor
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>>108574027
they need to change the logo
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>>108574027
They need to drop all the references to XNA, drop all the references to Mono, drop all the bloat, and just make it a modern .NET 10 framework built on top of a thin wrapper around DirectX 12.
They can keep the cornflower blue.
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Has anyone tried Unigine (the engine)? I'm making my own so I'm not really interested in using it, just interesting that it seems to have some pretty good features yet you never hear shit about it.
>it's shit
Ok but people rant and rave about Godot which is also shit, so that can't be it.
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>>108576262
>Has anyone tried Unigine
no, there were like a total of 5 games made in that engine and nobody has ever heard of them. the only thing people know unigine from is their benchmarks like heaven. they need to release the engine for "free" like how unreal is licensed if they want anyone to give two shits about it.
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>>108552924
How long should I stick with coding before I admit to myself I'm not cut out for it and should go do something else? Honest question.
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AI is absolutely insistent that a modern Windows game should use "raw input" for keyboard and mouse, but every engine I've looked at uses the old DirectInput API?
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going to actually do an art pass and tinker around with making this look how I want it to look.
Raymarched Voxels SVO on the fragment shader.
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>>108572666
>Learn GDB
>gdb ./a
>break function_name
>start
>s //step into function
>n // next instruction
>quit
Congrats by reading this post you now understand what you need for the majority of programs you debug.
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>>108580260
>Need more
I don't need more its just nicer. If you have 10 lines that could of failed I don't want to write a print statement between each of them. I'd rather just run through and see the source of the segfault.
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which option should i prefer to use for storing constant buffers? structured buffers are well and good, but they can only have a single type of structs, byte address buffers can hold whatever youd like, even different structs, but doesnt that come with some performance penalty, if so how bad is the penalty compared to needing multiple kinds of structured buffers?
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>>108580334
>20 year journey
? lunaslop are introductory books, all you need is a general understanding of c++ and a lukewarm iq to follow them
they're also not very good and not at all how you would construct a real program and they're redundant since the official documentation is so complete, but hey, if you just want to see the material presented in a slightly different way then there you have it
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>>108580334
>>108580357
https://github.com/microsoft/DirectX-Graphics-Samples/tree/master/Mini Engine
Between that and the MSDN there's not really anything else that you need to learn DirectX. If you still can't figure it out, there's always GameMaker.
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>just realized I could use animations to have a door open and not code the fucking thing
bros, im gonna make it
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>>108572078
Some retard put the and in and tried to gaslight us it was always there but you can literally check the archives and see otherwise. This general has been too soft. We need to be purist. Engine devs only, nobody wants to see your shitty Unity/Godot games.
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>>108580550
https://github.com/GreatCorn/MASMZE-3D/tree/main
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>>108580512
>Some retard put the and in and tried to gaslight us it was always there but you can literally check the archives and see otherwise
https://desuarchive.org/g/search/subject/%2Fgedg%2F/order/asc/
retard
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>>108580588
???
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>>108580637
???
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>>108580698
>tripfag
>ai derangement syndrome
you just know he has his pronouns listed on his pedosky account
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I've decided. I'm just going to copy another engine but make it better.
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>>108581190
Anyway, the meta seems to be spidering around using adjacency
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2509.03753
And this may be useful, need time to parse through the legalese
https://tmc.web.engr.illinois.edu/env.pdf
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C, C-style C++, or modern C++? Which way, chuddies? I like C but ranges and lambda's look comfy. I already know C but I'm wondering if I should learn (a subset of) C++. I feel like each style has its own merits and de-merits. So I'd either learn C++ with operator overloading and methods on structs, or go full-on modern C++ 23 with RAII, unique pointers, and functional-style programming. I know with the latter approach debug compile times make debugging a non-starter, so I'll just use logging and printf debugging like a chad.
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>>108581844
That's a weird thing to say, probably only saying it because you can't think for yourself and Casey said it
C metaprogramming with macros is garbage and you need templates for proper generic data structures
Operator overloading is just a conviencne
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>>108581918
>>108581934
>Vector
I just realized that this doesn't make because C++ is retarded and got me confused. A vector is a mathematical construct, not a data structure. This is what I meant:
typedef ARRAY(Vec2) Array_Vec2;
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>why yes I use c++ but I use it c-style aren't I cool
this is some next level retardation that shows you understand neither c++ nor c
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>>108568195
>>108582774
My Silenter dad loved World of Tanks. Basically any generation older than Millennials, I think.