Thread #18370320
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Why do some religions not proselytise?
In fact, why do some religions make it intentionally difficult to convert or outright forbid converts?
Why would a religion not want people to follow the correct path?
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>>18370320
Some religions are tied to ethnic identity and don't want new converts (Zoroastrian/Judaism). They don't see it as their duty to "save" others they just want group cohesion. Even Catholics make it hard to converts. It's only the Protestants/Evangelicals that proselytize aggressively.
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Judaism is weird because god even did want to exterminate all of mankind for being so sinful but got convinced to pardon Noah's family. So why are Jews all fuck you got mine? Clearly their god wants all of mankind to obey his will.
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>>18370336
No clue. There was a crisis in the Catholic church over what to do with the newly discovered natives of the Americas. While they weren't Christian, they debated over whether it was right to enslave them. They believed it right to enslave moors and other people who worship Islam because they knew about Christ and rejected him more or less. The natives of the Americas were ignorant of Christ so they never rejected him, but they also wanted cheap/free labor so people argued it was still okay to enslave the natives. There were also abolitionist who would go into places like Africa and the Americas and convert as many people as possible as a way to combat slavery since it was wrong to enslave Christians.
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>>18370336
I'm pretty sure that in Zoroastrianism the fate of unbelievers after death is more dependent on unbelievers virtue and deeds in life, not faith. And Jews have never had any issue with believing that they simply are the privileged God's chosen people, and if others are damned then it is God's will and they aren't fit to question it.
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>>18370402
Seems what we have is the remnants of religions that existed in a time where it was believed "our god is god of our lands and your god is god of your lands". I remember either a professor or reading somewhere argue that it wasn't until the time of the Babylonian Captivity that the idea expanded to "our god is god everywhere" since there were so many Hebrews living in Babylon.
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>>18370323
>>18370402
It’s a common misconception, but no, Zoroastrianism does not forbid conversions.
The only Zoroastrians who do forbid conversions are the Parsis in India (descendants of Persians who fled to India after the Arab conquest of Iran). Forbidding conversions is not practiced by any Zoroastrian outside India. It was not practiced when Zoroastrianism was a major religion, and no Zoroastrian text forbids conversion.
The only reason Parsis forbid conversions is because when they fled to India, local princes allowed them to keep practicing their faith under the condition that they don’t convert people, and this has stuck with them.
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>>18370320
Not all religions are universalistic, not all religions are strictly exclusionary.
>In fact, why do some religions make it intentionally difficult to convert or outright forbid converts?
You are thinking of the Zoroastrian parsis, other zoroastrians take converts albeit rarely, and Jews. And the reason here has to do with coercion by governments following other universalistic and exclusionary faiths (and also hinduism, which isn't necessarily those things but is also hostile to proselytes), which both of these are, even if those elements are dulled by historical circumstance.
>Why would a religion not want people to follow the correct path?
They believe other paths exist, salvation isn't real, or that their gods are just as valid as yours. Or maybe they are just dickheads and don't care, ig.
>>18370336
Jews don't believe in hell, iirc. And anyway, goys aren't automatically damnedl in Jewish cosmology, you just have to follow the seven laws of Noah; this ironically includes most muslims but excludes Christians (though it depends on your interpretation of jewish law and the trinity). Jews are special and as such have to hold to special laws, but the nations only have to hold to Noah's seven. Becoming Jewish means taking up this special burden, not getting a 'get out of hell free' card.
Judaism definitely was a proselytizing religion before losing ground to Chrstianity, though.
>>18370446
Iirc none of those have a strictly exclusionary view of the afterlife. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
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>>18371164
I think it's very interesting the general public has retconned the Proselytizing and universalistic elements out of Judaism and Zoroastrianism.
If you go into the sources you can tell Jews did wish to convert the gentiles, even if they weren't necessarily as energetic as their Christian rivals.
Iranians were much less enthusiastic but were certainly on board with the idea of converts.
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>>18370354
Jews see their religion as "following God's rules" first and everything else second
In their religion God gives a couple rules to everybody and a lot of rules to Jews
So from the Jewish perspective, non-Jews are doing exactly what God asks of them if they adhere to the (very short) laws of Noah. Adhering to the (very long) laws of Moses are superfluous.
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>>18370320
And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—
these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.”