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>>7881095
The idea of artistic talent makes me uncomfortable so I'd rather deny it
I assume I have high IQ so that doesn't bother me

whatever helps you cope

>>7881095
Cause after a certain point it stops mattering. People with talent will end up learning the same shit, and those without will have to learn the same shit but just do more of it.
Like I know this is /tv/ but Nathan Fielder for his show The Rehearsal had to learn to fly a commercial airplane, and he said that he was literally the slowest to ever learn it, but it didnt matter in the end cause he did learn how to do it and now can fly fucking planes

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This is like if someone told me not to do back exercises because I'll never get as big as Ronnie Coleman in his prime

>>7881095
You've made up a conversation with yourself and now are acting like this was something someone else told you, is this usual behavior for you?

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>>7881095
>I'm not good at art because of my genes
>I'm not good at art because other people are genetically better
>I'm not good at art and it's not my fault
>I'm not good and it's not fair
>Arts not fair
>Waaaaaah
You're not good at art because you're fucking lazy and you don't draw

>>7881095
>Anons are still avoiding the actual question
Explain how IQ can be genetic and inherent while talent can't

>>7881189
>Explain how IQ can be genetic and inherent while talent can't
Nobody has claimed that except OP and his imaginary friends

>>7881095
>You know, IQ is genetic and people can have inherent differences in intelligence
If we're going to remove the people who are especially hard done by their genetics, which we should as they're outliers, then I don't really agree with the premise. Sure some will have a harder time, but if they apply themselves, and with the right studying methods, they can do as well as any other student.

>Also, art talent can be genetic and some people may have inherent differences and limits
Likewise, removing the particularly hard done outliers, there are going to be those who have a harder time wrapping their head around drawing techniques and concepts, but again, if they apply themselves and look for the methods that work for them, they too can make appealing work.

Not everyone can be michael jordan, the very tippity top of skills, but anyone can be a pretty good amateur player if they apply themselves.
Likewise, anyone can get fit, anyone can learn to write well, and anyone can to draw well.
Creativity is a bit of a different discussion, as there's matters of taste and blah blah blah... but drawing? Yeah, anyone can do it if they try.
Do you need to be the michael jordan of art to be good? Nope. You don't even need to be that to make truly exceptional art.

>>7881189
it can be i just dislike the notion of it being purely talent which is wnat some nodraws think. obviously, some pick it up faster and theres a genetic cap to how good u can get, but u still have 2 put in the effort to get to ur own max level

I am extremely talented and skilled at drawing, I just haven't found the right course or book yet

What does "art talent" even mean?

>>7881174
ronnie literally crippled himself, so you absolutely shouldn't try to do what he did even before considering that it won't get you as far in the first place

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>>7881095
People use talent as an excuse. People only develop their skills because they had talent, or they didn't develop their skills because they didn't have talent. Talent in innate, you can't control it. So just focus on what you can control. Develop an art practice that is fun so you can stick with it in the long term. Keep things challenging so you are learning new things and refining your skills. Some people will have to work ten times as hard, but that's how anything in the world works. You're lucky to even have the opportunity, most people in history didn't have art supplies, access to art instruction and free time to spend on it. Either suck it up or keep whining like a baby about it.

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>>7881095
>What causes this thinking?
I don't know, but I do love some Sailor moon porn

>>7881414
I prefer chibi moon porn

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>>7881095
Key difference: art is mostly learning based and IQ is the processing power that allows you to learn. Thanks for your time

because it isnt art talent, its intelligence. if youre retarded like chris chan for example, you wont ever do anything useful in your life. there is no talent for art, its memorization, attentionspan, motor functions, everything that resides in the brain.

talent doesnt exist, intelligence clearly does. your momma dropped you on your head is what i'm saying. sorry

i mean yeah, some people have innate talent. Not an excuse to not try, cause you could apply this to literally anything ever. Idk stay beg ig

>>7881396
the last bit of the paragraph is what i learned last year and i always knew it to be true. nothing comes from nothing. you're a lazy bum? nothing will happen. i told this people on here as well, especially beginners. you have to put in the hours, there is no way around it. you sometimes have to polish the turd as well, make the mistakes so you learn from them. beginners underestimate the time spent on a single piece. i have simple portraits that take up to 3 hours sometimes depending on their complexity and detail. then you see someone posting some shitty drawing on here which looks like they spent 20 minutes on and wonder what went wrong.

bring back pervitin chocolate

>>7881666
>you sometimes have to polish the turd as wel
This desu, not only is it important to practice things like rendering, but doing it often reveals what went wrong with the sketch phase. There would be a lot less what went wrong posts if people finished their drawings.

>IQ is genetic
>people can have inherent differences in intelligence
To some extent, but largely moldable. IQ tests themselves are also shit metrics and can be extensively trained for too, despite whatever bullshitters say to you.

>art talent can be genetic and some people may have inherent differences and limits
Also possible to some extent, but largely moldable. Just Draw, motherfucker.

>>7881674
>IQ tests themselves are also shit metrics and can be extensively trained for too, despite whatever bullshitters say to you.
as proven by our newest captcha which are lowest level iq tests

>>7881683
you outed yourself as too low IQ to comprehend staggered rollout, is /g/ your main board?

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>YOU'RE LOW IQ
>NO YOU'RE LOW IQ
like....can you leave and stop posting these shiet threads over and over

>>7881691
why is the one inside greener

>>7881691
like... intellectuals are speaking, frogtard

>>7881696
>intellectuals
what's intellectual about stating the obvious just to doom about it for the 850th thread in a row?

>>7881699
you wouldn't understand, evidently

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>>7881396
>>7881666
This, the argument on talent has been discussed to death and pretty much settled. I like the section from Art and Fear on it because I attribute most of the gains made to plain old boring "learning to work on my work". Try to get the people who think they can improve by finding and proselytizing what they think is The One True Art Truth on /ic/.

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>>7881705
Also, as always, good ol' Uncle Andy puts it nice and concise

>>7881095
I have like an 85 IQ and I am better than 90% of this board

>>7881731
pyw

>>7881731
Pyw lol

>>7881714
>>7881705
its what beginners dont want to hear. work. its so simple and it.... works, heh. you arent einstein? you arent michelangelo? who cares. they already laid the foundation really, you just take that and go beyond those old farts. nothing personell.

>>7881740
pyw

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>>7881743
here's a stipple i did last year, i dont think i posted it on /ic/ yet. you should always post your work before asking others to do so imo, but i know this is a semi-bait thread so i'm not expecting anything anyway. the whole board is nigh useless mostly besides material gathering and one or two cool generals.

>>7881750
didn't read but lol

>>7881753
why arent you posting yours?

>>7881754
same reason I don't race cripples lol

>>7881095
you don't need an excuse if you want to stop drawing, anon

>>7881766
fuming

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>>7881743
Irrelevant for this discussion. If I posted something impressive that was the result of grinding something in my comfort zone it would be a worse example than a beg who put all his current brainpower into something challenge that's 90% a failure, but offers something for him to learn from. Get back to work.

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I feel like so many art concepts are well understood and explained that anyone with an IQ over 90 should be able to draw picrel from imagination. Proportion can be understood as simple fractions. Perspective is literally just drawing lines from some dots. Value is just knowing when to separate dark from light. Hubris and individuality is the real enemy of the artist.

>>7881705
>Newspaper love to print stories about five-year-old musical prodigies giving solo recitals
Modern education means it's much harder to devote your entire life to learning music

>>7881766
get off your phone, normalfag

>>7881095
It's like physical genetics. Sure not everyone can be a top 1% bodybuilder.
But everyone can get ripped and build an impressive physique.
Genetic potential isn't an excuse because you only know once you're reached as far as you could.

>>7881196
And what if your own max level cap is Chris Chan?
Is it worth the grinding?
Fucking retard

>>7881976
>But everyone can get ripped and build an impressive physique.
A medic student, just a medic student, would laugh and spit at you for being so ignorant
Many uncountable conditions that renders some people incapable to grow muscle
So stop being a pedantic nigger and stick your prejudice up your ass

>>7882018
> Heh, you didn't account for complete retards did you, asshole? That'll teach you to try to encourage me

>>7881976
if your idea of impressive is ottermode, yeah, otherwise lmao
zoomers are under 400 ng/dl

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threadly reminder that you favorite artist is grinding figures, cubes, color studies, etc. while you claim its all just talent

>>7881095
Talent is not genetic lol We've seen this thing blatantly on display with those hollywood celebrities and film people shamelessly trying to promote their stupid kids to film industry - only for them to be a retarded talentless nepo baby afterwards. Wants to see /ic/ related example? Look at hayao miyazaki trying to impose his talent and passion in animation to his son, only for him to make some stupid animation feature afterwards.
Talent is not genetic, its never genetic; talent is random, its given to random person in random circumstances

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>>7882035
Bad faith trolls in this thread picking apart metaphors. Keep drawing boys, WAGMI.

>>7882024
Are you actually retarded. Whe. People say "everyone" they typically mean most people, the overwhelming majority. And it's true, the overwhelming majority of people can achieve impressive levels of fitness and physique. Just most people aren't willing to try.

>>7882067
direct comparisons are not metaphors, esl, and I said your statement on bodybuilding was wrong, not the one you ineptly attempted to make about art
please learn english

>>7882095
Ok, but what have you been drawing today?

>>7882100
I finished a painting an hour ago, what's that got to do with you saying blatantly dumb shit, esl?

>>7882114
Good job! I'm proud of you

>>7882117
nobody asked, post your physique

>>7882024
thats like arguing mentally challenged people cant get into art, like chris-chan and then generalize the whole population because of it. oh no, a small portion of humanity shouldve died during infancy like it used to be the case in the middle ages bu fucking hu. thats just natural selection, it doesnt add up to all of humanity. all these excuses to not fucking draw, i swear to god.

>>7882024
Do you know what a generalization is?

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>>7882047
the grind is universal, the grind is real, the grind is life. if you think about it, every time you take a breath you're grinding for oxygen.

I do find it hilarious how anons are redpilled on IQ but the second talent (or anything that could affect them) comes up, they become bluepilled redditors at the drop of a hat

>>7882487
I find it funny that the based redpilled anons can't even rebuke the bluepilled redditors, much less actually respond to one of them... It's almost as if they're not based... not based at all.

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>>7881095
Both true. Except these things are not separate. I am 160iq+ and have been bare minimum above average at everything I have ever tried. It's not 1:1 but I think if you are decently intelligent it's almost impossible to be worse than mediocre at art.

Every piece of art you will ever make was predetermined at conception

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>>7881808
>draw a REFERENCED pic from imagination
dude nobody does this shit
I feel like half of the problem is you all just have unreasonable expectations of the creative process. Why isn't it good enough to draw something like this with a fucking shitty ass Bic Crystal WITH reference? Why can't that be your goal?
It's always inifnity+1 with you niggas

>>7882559
It gives them an excuse to not do anything.

>>7882487
there is no universal talent. intelligence is also not universal. just because someone has high memory capacity and behaves like a sentient, aware being, doesnt mean he ever learned or enjoys math or astrophysics. there is no universal talent for art, there is talent for specifics which derives from enjoying that specificalitiy and doing it a lot. which boils down to work again.

you want talent? draw.

>>7882559
I think it means reference it so many times u should be able to just remember how it looks and draw it

>>7882639
I think he actually does mean anyone who's not stupid should be able to just draw it because it's easy. And of course he won't do it himself because he has nothing to prove.

>>7881095
I work with dyslexic kids. Chances are if you know someone who is artistically gifted, they're more than likely dyslexic (which is a spectrum). That's why a lot of artists who excel as young adults hardly read and can't write their way out of a paper bag. Dyslexic people are born with stronger than average visual-spatial processing and 3D visualization.

The only positives of drawing consistently as a child is that you've already done most of the work for grinding away shapes and line quality, and also that your overnight recall is sharper. Children are also more willing to engage in Play and make mistakes.

But adults have the advantage of improved hand-eye coordination and stronger mathematical reasoning/problem-solving skills. Adults are more willing to effectively structure their learning whereas most children do not make the attempt to actively self-improve in their art.

>>7882970
to be specific:

>autism/ADHD: authors, engineers, scientists, athletes, soldiers, doctors/nurses/medical assistants, teachers, mathematicians, cooks and chefs, EMTs and first responders, animal care, etc

>dyscalculia/dyslexia: artists! actors, musicians, dancers, designers, illustrators, painters, draftsmen, photographers, etc

>OCD: mechanics, IT, accountants, auditors, machinists, etc

it goes without saying that overlap exists

>>7882713
delusional

>>7881095
A lot of people who go on about "talent" mean that they couldn't just pick up a pencil and draw. It's more like someone believing that they can't get a math degree because they went to a calculus test without studying and couldn't do it.

Many people who don't believe that they could learn to draw haven't actually tried to learn. Bu yeah, genetics affect everything. Obviously humans are better at drawing than ants are.

>>7882970
Kinda makes sense that the two skills would be inversely correlated. In my own case, I’m very naturally talented at writing but horrifically untalented at drawing, like much worse than average.

>>7881095
The difference is drawing doesn't take much IQ whereas answering greater questions about the world does

i wish a white girl would love a poor, ugly, old and smelly brown man like me no matter my genetics


but this is wishful thinking haha

>>7883070
Go to a place where that's more likely to happen... they won't be supermodels, but women tend to learn to want a man so do a job, make sure you're competent at it, be a bit funny and sharp witted and some stupid white girl will give you a chance because you're "such a great guy".

I wish I wouldn't turn away advances from women I obviously know wants me because of my inhibitions. being drunk/high lowers them enough to get to know me but it tends to blow up my life and I'm too lazy to actually go and get drugs/alcohol.

>>7881095
Excuses to not draw thread 964. "I'm just too stupid!" edition.

>>7883135
it really do be like that. was /ic/ always like this? i only started lurking last year, but its generally very bad. most of the site is kinda bad, but this is almost a cesspit aside from a select few threads. you could filter out 90% easily

i dont think sailor moon would say that

>>7883140
>was /ic/ always like this?
No.
It used to be a refuge for users of conceptart.org.
And like the internet and 4chan as a whole, it got worse over time. COVID was probably the death kneel for it, schizophrenics and crabs overflooded the thing and most people who actually drew left.

>>7883140
I've been lurking for 4 years and it's been the same. You're honestly better off just posting on art discords, or y-hweh forbid, plebbit than this shithole full of glue eating angry retards called /ic/.

>>7883140
I'd estimate /ic/ non-beg draw thread activity is down 50% of what it was in 2018-2020, and people say it was already past its heyday at that time (I wouldn't know). The site is dying.

>>7883147
>The site is dying.
i think a lot of the "old guard" is feeling this. i'm only from around 09, and its still a very stark difference.
>>7883145
>>7883146
good to know. the moai threads i've seen some months ago were pretty cool but short lived. felt like an echo from the past from an outsiders view

>>7883147
idk about the site as a whole, but ic definitely has been hurt the most. It used to feel like the drawthreads other boards get, just anons eager to share their doodles. Now there's barely any fucking art posted. It's just crabs, jeets, retards, and bored people larping as the first 3.

If I had to point at a cause though, is that new gens don't give a fuck about learning a craft, struggling, or putting in effort. They just boot up fortnite and drool in front of a screen as it feeds their dopamine. That, and normies being told 4chin bad, tiktok good.

Some people are better at drawing than others, whatever the reason. This is obvious. Michelangelo was one of thousands of artists who followed a similar program of artistic training, yet he stood head and shoulders above most of his peers. Whether you call this "talent" or something else, what does it matter? There could be any number of explanations. Maybe it came easy to him. Maybe it was hard but he was tougher/more industrious than his peers and more willing to work hard. Maybe he had a photographic memory or savant-like ability to visualize a subject. Maybe he just enjoyed it so much that what seemed to others like hard work was like play to him. You can go on and on because there's no single explanation that covers every artistic standout.

>>7883168
Any niche boards are effectively dead. I used to frequent /fit/, /ck/, and /an/ and the difference between now and even 5 years ago is drastic. What used to be thriving communities with at least somewhat insightful discussion has become a wasteland of the same 3-4 threads day-in/day-out where one retard usually brings up random politics for no reason. The only boards on this site that generate serious traffic anymore are /a/, /v/, and /pol/

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>>7883170
i think motivation is a huge factor for anything you do. if you actually enjoy "thing" and want to do it well its different than someone who draws for money or fame/pussy. leagues apart actually. and then there is people with no motivation at all or very little/wishy washy. for example, someone that deludes himself into thinking its his divine gift to the world or a higher being is moving his brush, you know, a messianic complex will accomplish more than someone who thinks he is a good for nothing looser. or even something as simple as thinking of oneslef as artist, like its your existence and whole reason for being. i am an artist. like subconcious mantra

>>7882632
>intelligence is learning and enjoying math
holy retard

>>7883147
it's higher than any point pre-covid, you dumb nigger
God, I hate newfags

>>7883271
i like how you conveniently ignore the previous half of the sentence in your pseudoquote. take your med, brownoid

>>7881095
>>Whoa now, hold your horses, bucko
>What causes this thinking?
Nothing, because it's a strawman in your head. Of course it's stupid and bad, you were the one who made it.

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>>7883273
what
/ic/ currently is at the same speed as 2008

>>7883283
>I didn't read the post chain but I need to reply

>>7883273
You're a moron. You can check past /draw/ and /alt/ threads and clearly see there's been a decline in post rate.

>>7883287
I checked it, it's higher. Maybe you should check it yourself, doesn't sound like you did.

>>7883289
Why lie? You can literally even see the graph here >>7883283
What the fuck do you gain out of lying like this and being needlessly antagonistic? /alt/ threads can't even reach 300 anymore. /draw/ stays up for months. This place is a wasteland.

>>7883291
>retard still illiterate, more retardation next post
What is the claim being argued, retard?
Come on, you can do it.

>>7883293
Claim? All you've done is bleed out your ass. Fuck off and go draw idiot, I know you're just some pissed off permabeg venting.

>>7883294
Oh no, it's incapable of reading, probably brown.
Here, I'll do it for you, Mbongo:
>non-beg draw thread activity

>>7883297
Is down, yes. Way down. I know you're intimately familiar with /beg/ despite being here decades, but some of us post in the actual draws threads and they're fucking dead, shit for brains.

>>7883298
>still not comprehending basic english
You're in over your head, Eslrique

>>7883300
At this point it's clear you're trolling but please do explain what you're having trouble comprehending about that statement. It really seems stuck in your ass. I'd be happy to explain the meaning of it to you. Last chance and good faith reply from me.

>>7883298
>>7883283
>>7883147
>inb4 butthurt
Genuine ESL newfag moment. There's only one draw thread. Generals aren't "draw threads". "Non-beg draw thread activity" means activity in the draw thread that isn't low skill posts, not activity in generals outside of /beg/. Board traffic has absolutely no relevance to the discussion.

>>7883303
Learn English lol

>>7883305
That's what triggered this? What a petty, boring little cunt you are. I can absolutely predict how much of a failure you are in all things, especially art. I spit on you.

>>7883307
>gets explained how he both misinterpreted board culture and miscommunicated what he meant to say
>throws a thirdie tantrum
The other autist's right, learn English, monkey.

You post exactly like him and share his pedantic qualms, but you're totally not him. What a fucking mental case. This board is an asylum.

>>7883312
>u type english good u same
>board bad
Ok, so leave.

>>7883140
I was most active here around 2018-2019. Biggest difference back then is that it was a bit faster and there were some more experienced artists who would drop redlines sometimes, other than that it was identical. Topics were identical (minus AI), average quality was identical, the nodraws were still nodrawing. It hasn’t changed that much.
>>7883147
The threads I frequent on /vg/ for specific communities are still as fast as ever. It’s mainly the smaller boards that have suffered the most.

kekaroo
Imagine calling samefag after this shit lmaoooo
>>7883283
>>7883287

>>7883313
Happy with your art?

>>7883318
My customers are.

>>7883319
pornfag lol
That explains the barely contained raged.

>can't even imagine working without porn
So thirdie and /beg/. Pathetic.
Last reply.

>>7883323
You're either doing porn or Nintendo fan art. Don't deny it, shitter. You couldn't even say you were happy with your art.

>>7883323
are there third worlders here?

THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT. THIS HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY DESIGNATED A NO DRAW PERMABEG THREAD. IF YOU WASTE ANY FURTHER TIME WITH THIS RETARDED SHIT YOU WILL NEVER MAKE IT. ANY PERMABEGS RESIDING IN THIS THREAD MAY CONTINUE POSTING BELOW THE FOLLOWING LINE. THANK YOU AND HAVE A SHITTY DAY

________________________________________

>>7881808
How do you use a ballpoint without those splotches of ink that come out like every 20 seconds

>>7883376
You either get a higher quality ballpoint or you just accept it, it's not that big a deal. You can see where it happened in that drawing.

>>7881187
No wonder gen slop got so popular, cause of fags like op.

>>7881095
that all sounds defeatist like cope. if you don't have the force of will to propel yourself to greatness no matter what your circumstances are you're ngmi. anyone has the capacity to be great but few have the drive and determination to make it there

>>7881095
We accept that singing, athleticism, intelligence, and even cooking or gardening are genetic (green thumb, chef’s kiss) but for some reason drawing is the forbidden talent that just can’t be- my guess is simple

Drawing takes too long, so long that to some people who toil away it’s impossible for this to be genetic- but it really is, it’s just an amalgamation of your creativity iq and hand eye coordination which is already genetic, why do you think we get so many stories about first time artists who instantly become great the moment they actually sit down and take their time to give it a go?

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>>7882047
LeBron James has to practice playing basketball too, guess what? He’s still 6’8 250 with Heaven sent athleticism and a photographic memory!!!

>>7884814
singing can be learned, you can learn and train to be athletic, you can study subjects, cooking is literally just following a recipe at this point, plants have rules to follow, its very simple. gardening doesnt even have room for creativity, thats even more strictly recipe/rule following than something like cooking.
>>7884815 a pointguard doesnt need to be a giant, you can still be good at basketball by practising to pass and throw for hundred thousand times till you get it.

all the excuses. everything is learnable unless you are literally, clinically retarded. i think lazyness should be classified as retardation at this point.

As someone who was beg tier and now has art in games and movies, I can tell you that people with talent are just anons that enjoyed art from a young age. Either adapt and learn or whine on 4chan, it’s your choice

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>>7884835
No one’s making excuses, nobody said you can’t draw without being talented, there are people who can tell you how to improve your drawings without having a lick of drawing ability themselves- same way there are food critics and coaches in sports who can’t do either- that’s ok!!! I promise it doesn’t make you less of a hard worker if you’re naturally gifted at something, but if you think for one second a guy like Akira Toriyama didn’t have .001% percentile brain genetic gift then You are simply delusional, or a narcissist!

>>7884837
Do you know how many untalented artists have been obsessed with art since they were young? This is a peak example of someone with natural talent just saying “work hard bro- it worked for me”, no what happened is you stopped being lazy and exerting effort into your gift and it worked out, someone who’s not talented will never ever ever be able to do what you’ve done.

Don’t act like there aren’t things you suck at despite trying to improve at for years, it’s apart of life.

>>7884878
you dont have to be toriyama to draw a manga, you can be like One and just do it. his crude manga is seriously more interesting than the reworked version as well, aside from the coombait. talent or genetic predisposition are still excuses. toriyama was also a bad storyteller, despite his drawings and jokes being pretty silly and fun, the stories were severly lacking. so even a toriyama is far from perfect or having some divine talent, he never worked on his storytelling and was in fact, selfproclaimed, very lazy.

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>>7884883
Motherfucker (excuse my language) no one’s saying you have to be Toriyama to draw a manga what we’re saying is to be as GOOD as Toriyama requires a .001 percentile very few have!!! The ONE example literally proves my point he had to get a shadow artist, and that’s ok because his true gift is writing (emotions, expression, pacing, irony)- and that is what won over people’s hearts even with his shoddy art

And I disagree heavily on Toriyama being a bad storyteller, but that’s another debate entirely. I’m not here to make excuses for anyone, I just want it to be understood that great artists are inherently more gifted than their peers, it’s just a simple fact that’s accepted in every other medium. Doesn’t make you less of a hard worker or anyone lazy or an excuse maker; that would be ridiculous? You’re trying to argue you’re not special- but you believe that you’re just some incredibly hard worker and that no one who’s worse than you could possibly be working harder- do you not see the irony in that?

>>7884887
>You’re trying to argue you’re not special- but you believe that you’re just some incredibly hard worker and that no one who’s worse than you could possibly be working harder- do you not see the irony in that?
not special, just smarter. any artist better than me is smarter and working harder than me. its not a talent, something magical in the cloud, its all in your brain. and you can work on training all those aspects of your brain, forming new memory pathways, otherwise you and me would forget this conversation the moment we typed it up.

now go out there and draw something.

>>7884890
Well you see you equate talent to magic, which is incorrect, but the mark of an artist’s brain indeed. The fact is is that there are people who are incredibly smart and work hard and still suck at art, and it proves that its a natural gift more than you want to believe, there’s just no way around that without an admittance of superiority (which you’ve already done) or making judgements or slander against those who are inferior (which you’ve also done)- which are both traits gifted people inherit when it comes to their craft.

It’s strange that artists take this as an insult, and I wonder what the psychology of that is. Perhaps being able to create almost whatever you want on a whim leads to narcissism, I can’t blame you.

>>7884892
its an insult because it discounts the effort and time spent even on singular pieces. i've seen people draw for 5 hours on a single portrait drawing and thats after doing that for thousand of times before. unless someone spends that much time to get to a point where he and others will deem it good, you cant say its talent. if a math major that has never picked up a pencil for drawing would draw a year straight, six hours a day, he'd be good. there is no universal talent for art. anyone that isnt legit retarded, physically or psychologicalls, as in a clinically certifable spastic of sorts, can learn to draw and paint and write and whatever, if he wants to. if the spark is there, the motivation, nothing is impossible if you put in the hours.

>>7884892
>The fact is is that there are people who are incredibly smart and work hard and still suck at art
Are you talking about yourself?

>>7884899
>>7884899
No one’s discounting anything- in fact I’ve given you parables with LeBron James and Akira and you shot those down in favor of something more comfortable to your psyche- what are those guys NOT incredibly smart and hard working? Shit they are more than you. You think there aren’t people that work just as hard or even harder? I know for a fact there are dudes that are smarter than both that will never sniff what they’ve been able to achieve- some things come natural to people and that’s fine, again- it does not make you less of a hard worker- and it doesn’t make people worse than you any lesser! I’ll never discount what LeBron James does to maintain his shape and skill, but he absolutely won’t the genetic lottery in part of his dedication.

Again, you see it as an insult as if I said you woke up one day and could just draw, I never said that- but some there are gifts some people have and some people don’t, there’s stuff in life you wish to be good at that you can’t no matter how much you try- there just is and nothing can change that.

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>>7884902

>>7884905
you are comparing pinnacles and set an ultimatum, just because lebron exists doesnt mean joe schmoe cant play and learn basketball. get real. you are describing talent as success in money and fame. you want to learn drawing or a specific artform? you better start now

Elite basketball players are kind of a shit example.
Art isn't specifically rigged to favor tall individuals.

>>7884949
how about a sculptor or graffiti artist? but height as explained doesnt matter in basketball either, you can still be a point guard. Muggsy Bogues was 5'3 (160cm)

>>7884952
Those are specific forms of art. And you can make small sculptures and knee height graffitis if you're a midget and no one cares. You can become an artist in quite a lot of different ways, like there are different sports out there.

>>7884946
No I’m not, I’ve already said I’m not debating that anyone can draw- just that not everyone can be good Jo matter how hard they try and how good you are is primarily a genetic thing, simple. This is accepted and understood in all other fields

toughest thing about art to me is learning how to learn
i feel like anyone would improve if they were like a certain art youtuber/animator and knew industry giants who could mentor them and answer all their dumb, tiny questions

>>7881095
Work ethic is also genetic because its highly influenced by how lucky you are and if you have good parents or not. You Need motivation to work well and bad parents and bad luck ruins YouTube motivation, perspective and Hope

>>7884977
In my personal experience and my observation most people who get good, don't get good from "critique." It's a really overrated aspect of art growth, getting "feedback." Good artists and artists who will become good just kinda know what they need.
Which is why I always discourage grinding and course hoarding and encouraging more sketchbook drawing, constant experimentation, and creative work. You can't diagnose a problem if you make something to diagnose.

>>7884964
>You can become an artist in quite a lot of different ways, like there are different sports out there.
exactly. there is no specific talent required because there isnt. everyone is different in minor or major ways and can use those differences to suit his needs if he hasnt fallen on his head.

>>7884983
You udually need a shitton of patience and good work ethic to become successful as an artist. Its not easy to be creative everyday for hours and hours

>>7884990
i have so many ideas backed up over the years i don’t think i could ever seriously get art block

>>7885058
you'll burn out anyway at one point. depending on how much you do a day/week. but it's good to have plans and ideas anyway, that means you have an approximate goal to work towards

>>7885058
You easily can lose your enthusiasm for ideas. Especially if they are years old already

>>7885092
It's not about "Enthusiasm" you fucking child, grow up. Work is work no matter what you do in life, you don't have to feel "Inspired" to get shit done. See things through to the end and stop quitting half way like a pussy.

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>>7885093
NTA but there is literally no point in working anymore
Our country is ruled by evil Jews, we'll be sent to die in Iran, women are as awful as ever, our countries are becoming third world and are unrecognizable.
Why the fuck shouldn't I just rot in my room?

>>7885093
Anon, he's right. People lose passion for ideas and then move on.
Holding on to a failing idea is a huge problem

>>7885113
Maybe you'd feel better if you weren't a delusional antisemite

>>7885093
Even absolute mangaka pros like Urasawa struggle with this. He once said in an interview how he finds it difficult to imagine how movie makers mainzain their enthusiasm, because they work with a big team for 3 years on a single short story. Its not bullshit, its very important to actually like your own ideas, otherwise you just dont have the willpower to realize them.

>>7885113
Also this. My city is finished. The women are literal shitskin communists who fuck with muslims and act like men. There is no reason to live anymore here.

>>7885092
i am still happy thinking about ocs i had in middle school desu. i'm excited thinking that i can finally bring them into reality in a way that isn't utter dogshit. i burned many years on feeling pity and thinking OH NO I JSUT DON'T HAVE HTE ART GENE IT'S OVER IT'S OVER IT'S OVER and now that i'm older it's like, who gives a shit? i will earnestly try to improve and if i improve at a glacier pace so be it. at least i'm doing something i spiritually enjoy

>>7885123
This
Jewish people gave the world so much, it's insane to me how they're hated
Where would we be without lawyers, banks, and Hollywood?

>>7885196
Thats a good attitude. Just being able to share your works with friends on the internet is alteady a good motivation. Im just saying its easy to lose the passion too

>>7885202
Jews turned western countries into sissyfied muslim shitholes. Without Christcucks they would have been thrown out centuries ago

>>7885205
>Muslims
>Sissyfied
Pick one and only one
Muslim men are the pinnacle of masculinity. They know how to keep their women in check and their society afloat
The most based of our time

>>7881095
You can learn. It just makes it harder.

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>>7885332
People *brownies, who can't solve puzzles like this are filtered from entering colleges in 3rd world shitholes, also these tests is the closest thing we have to quantify the mythical talent

>>7881095
any person can learn to read, write, and do arithmetic unless they're severely retarded. i wonder if art retards really exist

>>7885376
Chris Chan
IC artists
Permabegs
DeviantArt Fetish Artists
They all have a common denominator; retardation and brown

>>7881095
Artistic talent is unironically tied to IQ, too. Your ability to remember visuals and imagery IS trainable, because it's a function of general working and long-term memory. Unfortunately for the dumb, that means you're hard capped by your IQ, of which memory is a major component. That's why it's not surprising that a lot of east asians become good artists and why, historically, european artists were often polymaths and led the development of art as a field and created techniques like perspective and what not.

Unfortunately, nowadays autistic europeans just goon at home off NEETbux, while their American counterparts become techbros or influencers, leaving asians to the grind. In a different world, guys making $800k at places like Google and Amazon would have been crazy artists.

>>7881095
Oh i forgot. The ability to improve is also tied to IQ. Higher IQ is strongly correlated with self-reflection and metacognition, which is basically thinking about how to improve. A retard or average joe might just grind away mindlessly on the same thing for years and years, and turn bad art into a practiced behavior. High IQ individuals just naturally think about ways to improve. That's why so many assholes just say "you just gotta grind," because to them thinking about how to improve is as natural as breathing when working on a skill, so their concept of the "grind" is innately different from a regular person's idea of the grind.

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>>7881239
This

>>7881095
Even if there's a genetic factor, which I certainly beleive is possible, genes don't equal hard determinism.

>>7881095
>IQ is genetic and people can have inherent differences in intelligence
Source?

>>7888715
This is true too, but I think willpower is also a matter of genetics, luck and circumstances. Manga artist often geow up surrounded by manga. When you live in Tokyo and you are constantly surrounded by the best manga and book stores, friends who are into manga, even school clubs and courses teaching you manga, then you easly develope the skill to do this yourself from a young age on.

>>7888715
>>7888858
Also if you live in Japan for example, you actually have the chance to sell manga. They sell all kind of manga there and the chance to sell it yourself is actually tangible. This also has a huge effect on your determination. I couldn't sell the stuff here which I want to draw.

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>>7881095
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aIla6GwOE4

>>7881095
There's something about genetic/talent limitation that really stands out versus the art of somebody who just hasn't studied/practiced enough yet. Like you can see the technical skill, they seem to understand the fundamentals, there's a comfidence to their art, yet all their pieces are mediocre when it comes to appeal, and they've been at this lukewarm level of appeal for literally years. To bring up the bodybuilder analogy, they're the guy who busts ass in the gym every day, pushing sets to failure, but his shoulders are genetically narrow relative to his broad hips, so no matter how much he slams his delts, his physique will always look off and slightly feminized. He can even reached a point where he looks jacked, but he will never look like a proper bodybuilder.

>>7889325
I'll add that this is fine and not an excuse to stop trying, but at a certain point you have to accept that your art will never set the world (or even social media) on fire. If you have the technical skill to translate your vision into the pieces you visualize in your head, but still nobody gives a shit, congrats, you've probably reached your genetic artistic limit.

>>7889325
What you see as a lack of talent is actually people giving up their good taste. If you read this here here: >>7881773
... you can understand there is an assumption in that paragraph that people retain their taste over time. A lot don't. They suppress their actual artmaking desires for social reasons. This is most often as an attempt to climb a hierarchy (corporate, cultural, etc). This is the reason "artstation slop" is a thing - it's people using their well-developed skills to make things that lack taste. Sanitized. Appealing to an approximation of someone else's professed desires. The artist's own tastes do leak through, but the more someone is embedded in an industry, the more performative and less authentic they have to be.

Retards will conflate "talent is real" and "you shouldn't do things you have no talent for" until the end of time because everything must lead to profit, they can't fathom doing things for fun (they can't fathom having fun doing something you are not good at, either).

>>7885215
you could at least try, zuttslut

>>7889552
The problem with talent is that it's subjective. For some I might be talented but compared to top notch artists I'm like a peanut brain compared to galaxy brain.

The skill ceiling in art is just so high that only very few people really are able to compete.

>>7889592
Your're conflicting genius with talent.
Being talented means u can make to like a minor league sports team or your local orchestra/band. You can place amongst the 10 000 people of the millions who tried the skill. Being a genius means ur in the top 1000 people of the millions of who tried.

>>7881095
genetic predisposition determines how soon you can achieve more, not whether or not you can achieve more.

>>7881095
Think about the type of midwit that speaks and arranges information in an academic manner and actual intelligence. That's what we're looking at and most normies can't tell the difference between competent mediocrity and high level talent.

>>7883553
unironically yes
ever notice how they always have this defeatist attitude towards art in general?
they always try to morally justify the use of AI because they refuse to just learn how to get better

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Here's your latest blackpill bro.