Thread #7889283
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Dumb question, I KNOW, but what's the best way to handle VN sprites? I mean the PSD structure. I usually drawn in 1 or 2 layers, but now that I want to make sprites, I'm struggling to find a good way to handle multiple clothes, expressions and even different poses/arm locations in a non-destructible way. I've tried to find PSDs online but they just separate the finalized art into layers, so not really helpful to learn the process. Thanks.
+Showing all 9 replies.
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>>7889283
It might be a bait question, or you might be actually retarded, but I'll humor you.
Why you come here to ask about VNs, instead of on Ren'Py's forum or discord, is beyond me. Why you didn't do the bare research on how visual novels handle sprites is also a mystery.
Are you just drawing for the purpose of drawing, or do you have an established necessary sprite set for the character you want to make? I assume the former.
Anyway, before you draw anything, you first need to have a list of poses and expressions your project needs.
Once you have that, decide on how little you can change for the poses. Sometimes moving an arm is enough. Of course you need to prepare your layerwork for that. If you've ever only drawn using 1 or 2 layers, you're likely lower than a BEG tier, and you'll have a hard time.
If your character has more than one outfit, it's good to have a "nude base," even unfinished, that'll help you add clothes on top of it. Then you export a PNG of the full body.
Expressions are done separately, and usually stacked on top of the body using the game's engine.
Protip: Separate mouths and eyes, so the useless coder who cannot handle the simplest python expressions will later be able to join "happy mouth" "with angry eyes" for a retarded tsundere expression.
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>>7889283
Also, forgot to add - watch streams or tutorials on youtube, because your question is also a lot like "how do I even learn to draw"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWr8QvWL_Vk
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>>7889365
Thanks for the help tsuntsun, but this much I already knew. My question is more in line with the actual layered structure, because things overlap with each other (hair, details on clothes) and I have to use masks if I want to edit later (normally I'd just paint over because that's my style). Speaking of masks how the fuck do I handle multiple masks for the same body for different variations?(There's a schizo method of making a bunch of empty folders and put them inside of each other, but this is so ass I doubt it's the best way)
Things like: if the arm is the only change in the pose, how to have it seemlessly connect to the body between poses (especially if the coloring isn't flat). Things like that. Sorry If I'm retarded enough to only draw in few layers, my style comes from analog and is more painterly, normally there's no need. I'll watch this video by the way but I kind of doubt it answers these specific questions, that's why I'm here after all
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>>7889406
>because that's my style
That's a bad excuse for "I don't know any better."
You don't even need masks, I don't know where that idea came from. Details on clothes should be clipped to the layer below them. Do you mean layers clipping to each other?
I think you need to learn how to draw with layers, the very basics of digital drawing. I'm not even sure where to point you now, because I don't know your skill level (I assume BEG, or lower), and what program you use (is it Photoshop, or Clip Studio or SAI). You didn't really give us a lot of info about what you know either.
If you have a hard time visualizing it - imagine drawing your sprite using pen and paper, cutting out parts and stacking them on top of each other. Body, clothes, hands, etc.

If you can't find any good tutorials on how to draw VN sprites, find tutorials for how to draw Live2d models. The structure is similar.
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>>7889416
Sorry I didn't specify enough. I thought of using masks to hide the lineart where it wouldn't be in the finalized art, e.g., hiding the clothes lineart that is behind the hair, before exporting. I don't want to "just not draw it" because if I later want to change the hairstyle, I'm fucked.
I use CSP and am a beginner in digital, as you may have noticed.
Oh yeah, probably Live2D will be really helpful. I'll try to find tutorials for it.

My structure before posting was like this. It's kind of working, but there are just so many layers, and it's such a pain to work on that I doubt it's a good way to handle it. I'm specially clueless about where to put the colore layers. What do you think?
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>>7889421
Well, yeah, there'll be many layers. Get used to it. The more outfits and poses, the more busy your file is going to get. Sometimes you might get hundreds of layers.

You can try decompiling any Ren'Py VN and see how the sprites look from the technical standpoint. It *might* help.

But I feel like you don't need so many. I know what you're TRYING to do, because I've seen it like a hundred times here when Katawa Shoujo exploded. I think I'm right to assume this is not a commission and you're not paid by some "idea guy" maniac to make a sprite with a dozen of outfits and poses. So tell me, are you trying to make a VN on your own?

When KS released, everyone here wanted their own VN, and everyone claimed their stuff is going to be godsend, with millions of sprites and routes and art, etc.. And heed the word of advice - you don't need these many outfits and hairstyles. Nobody is going to care. People will take a look at bad art and ignore the outfits and poses.


Instead, try, at least now, doing this: Check up NaNoReNo (even though it's been borderline dead for the past 2 years), drop into Ren'Py's discord and see what people are making. It's also a good place to ask about stuff.
Then, make a smart, short kinetic novel with 2-3 sprites that have 3-4 expressions, no outfit changes, and see what people say.
You might drop by /ksg/. Maybe some of the old crew still reside there and can point you to discords or irc channels with people who actually made some working VNs. A lot of those people are gatekeeping hard now, but hey, you can try. /ic/ is not a good place to ask for advice. People here hate art, and the only thing they hate more than art are other artists.
>>>/vg/ksg
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Are you overthinking it?
Just make a paper doll system. Same resolution for both expressions and full body (so 1000x800) no matter what for example. Just clip the expressions/hairstyles/clothes out of the PSD.
The only utility to this is saving on file size. Honestly, since you're asking this, I don't believe your scope is big enough to justify the worry. Just make full body sprites with each expression you want, who cares.
Just make sure to make the BGs jpgs, otherwise they really pump up filesize.
If you do decide to go and do paperdolls, your issue will be woth the programming language putting images on different layers, it's not someting you do in photoshop.
>t. designed a paper doll system for a dress up minigame in renpy
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>>7889362
>you might be actually retarded
They use Subahibi as an illustration; of course they are retarded.
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>>7889283
paper doll system or silhouettes

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