to me he was a person without filter and didnt give a shit if what he draw was weird or dumb, some of his works are just vomit on paper, the others though
those were legendary

>>7913503
>the greatest underground comic book artist
That certainly would be some Japanese person, not this guy. He is the Billy Mitchell of comics. Just a random guy who gets overhyped as "the best ever" simply because he is american, and americans are self-centered narcissists

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>>7913506
i disagree, he had the balls to show the public his vision even if it was sexual or overly race related, didnt sell out to compromise and stayed underground to not be censored even though i respect mangakas none of them really break boundaries unless they are miuru or toriyama

>>7913506
wasn't billy mitchell a fraud that cheated and lied his way into the gaming industry? lol

>>7913503
Yes.

>>7913503
He's the only American dude I know that drew purely using Rotring technical pens, or Staedtler.

His contemporaries insisted in brushes, the Japanese at the time trained on calligraphy nibs.

yeah more /ic/ bros could definitely carry that crumb torch of technical pens

>>7913551
We have boundaries regarding drawings, please clap

>>7913563
I fucking hate technical pens

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>>7913503
>Dude, I made a comic about sex, like cum, like cumming on women, haha. I also say something about the races, like jews or blacks or something. Sooo transgressive, right?
>Dude, this is a diary comic too, haha, I'm soooo fucked up, right?
Eh. I don't hate the guy, but I never liked his art.
I also find a lot of the 'comix' scene, crumb included, to be pretentious, repetitive, and annoying.
I quite like Clowes, if he can be considered part of the scene, but he also often falls into the same cliche traps of socially awkward protags and 'lol sex' writing.

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>>7913576
OP here, yea i wont sugarcoat it you are kinda right about the sex and race stuff but i think its important to factor the time his work came out and you gotta admit the style is interesting compared to other comics released back then

him being a little goy pervert plus his interesting hatching really made his works stand out

>>7913551
>even though i respect mangakas none of them really break boundaries unless they are miuru or toriyama
neither of those authors broke boundaries at all. and they're not underground authors like crumb. there's plenty of underground magazines in japan with actual boundary pushers but for obvious reasons they dont make it overseas very often, or even online.

>>7913576
bro it was the fucking 60s and 70s. dudesexlol absolutely was novel counterculture. it's only because of stuff like crumb's that imitators made it tired.

>>7913600
i personally dont know any japanese underground author like crumb, tell me the ones you. know i like to look em up and maybe see their style

>>7913594
>>7913600
Americans will never understand just how much their culture has been raped by the comics code authority

>>7913605
the famous eroguro authors come to mind, but i think that's only really known overseas because of the shock/taboo curiosity aspect.
couldn't remember names so i googled it and came up with:
Suehiro Maruo
Shintaro Kago
Toshio Maeda

obviously there's bound to be many more, and not just eroguro. but, as i already mentioned, basically none of it makes it overseas. because it's, y'know, underground.

>>7913594
>you gotta admit the style is interesting compared to other comics
Like I said, I just don't like his work. There's something about it that personally just falls flat.
No hate to the guy, he's just not for me, visually or literary.

>>7913600
>bro it was the fucking 60s and 70s. dudesexlol absolutely was novel counterculture. it's only because of stuff like crumb's that imitators made it tired.
You're right, but there's something about comix's writing that feels exceptionally hollow without the novelty of being "fresh & new", compared to other works with many imitators.
I also think it just wore out its welcome far quicker than it should have, given the abundance of 'Jizz Comics'-likes in such a short time.
I'm sure there were plenty of none 'dudesexlol' underground comix at the time, but they were seemingly ignored in favour of the novelty.

So yeah, I'm not looking at it in its historical context, but even if I do, it seems it was pretty overdone.

>>7913503
undeground comix is probably something could excel at. Since it's only requirement is getting shit done before deadline.

Like /ic/ could compile shit drawn by anons into some A4 size canvas, compile it every month. Then release it to PDF piracy sites just to get it to the other pirates that will hopefully used by random people

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>>7913503
its vaughn bode, but nobody cares about vaughn bode

>>7913576
honestly the majority of western art after ww2 is just that
>WAOW he drew a penis, how avant-garde
paving the way for the big opium war that was porn I'm sure
I unironically believe everything after ww2 was astroturfed to fuck and the whole population got slow-boil mkultra'd

>>7913920
Ehhh his stuff really looks like if someone was somehow horny for both Precious Moments figures and the Fraggle Rock puppets... not too surprising people don't fuck with it

>>7914155
The history is that in ww2 all the americans died and their women became single mother whores who couldn't parent their retard mutt sons and then the jews and communists blamed the muttlets' behavior on comic books and made it so that only superman could be sold and only if the women look like men and superman always wins and batman doesn't kill

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>>7913920
Vaughn Bode is one of my biggest influences. A window into another world fully realized.

>>7913563
Ethan Van Sciver uses Staedler. So does Robert Marzullo.

>>7913576
>>7913594
Considering prudism has been in fashion since 2015 I'd say it's still necessary. The sex and race stuff is funny. Even funnier when you know he's a lefty. And other lefties hate it for racism and sexism.

>>7914387
>Considering prudism has been in fashion since 2015 I'd say it's still necessary.
You're both right an wrong. I have been seeing s resurgence in more prudish attitudes as of late, but let's be honest, it's still waaay in the minority. Just look at this board, half the people here's biggest influences are porn artists, and porn artists are some of the most celebrated on the internet, and it isn't just because they're drawing porn.
For better or for ill, pornography and sex is mainstream and totally accepted by the majority of the public, and

>The sex and race stuff is funny.
I'll just disagree here. It just makes me roll my eyes. It feels played out, and I'm honestly sick to death of hearing Americans talk about race stuff; past or present.

>>7913920
I like Vaughn Bode Visually, but he also falls into the 'dudesexlmoa' camp.

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>>7913594
>>7913605
Well, the underground guys do/did, which is partly why they responded the way they did. All of them were fans of EC Comics, who were genuinely pushing the artistic progress of comics into an art form until the Comics Code cut the legs out from under them, that's a huge reason why all the undergrounds were about pushing cultural and social boundaries, it was a reaction to the comics industry being emotionally stunted by the Comics Code and the 50's senate hearings killing the natural progress of the art form.

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>>7913605
Garo Magazine was basically the hub of underground manga from the 60's to the 90's, then it became AX Magazine. Anybody published or featured in Garo is the equivalent of Robert Crumb and the U.S. underground scene. Yoshiharu Tsuge is the king of underground manga, and he has quite a few books published in English now, including his seminal "Screw Style" aka "Nejishiki". Also look up Yoshihiro Tatsumi, Hanawa Kazuichi, Sasaki Maki, King Terry, Seiichi Hayashi, and Tadao Tsuge (Yoshiharu's younger brother). All of these artists I've mentioned are now available in English, most alternative Gekiga manga has been getting translated and published in English the last decade.

The closest manga artist to Crumb's style is probably ManGataro, though his style is more absurdist and grotesque and less overtly sexual than Crumb, but he also likes the obsessive cross-hatching and details like Crumb.

>>7914439
Meant to reply to >>7913606 I've had a few drinks

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>>7914427
Bode's stuff is fun, visually, but it never goes anywhere. It's all cheap gags and sexy girls with no actual depth or story. The visual impact of his work is great, but it's very shallow from a story level.

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>>7913563
>He's the only American dude I know that drew purely using Rotring technical pens, or Staedtler.
He now uses Koh-I-Noor Rapidograph 0/.35, this is mentioned in Dan Nadel's recent biography about Crumb.

>>7913551
>words words words
dude why didn't he just write a fucking novel at this point

>>7914451
Because of the pictures next to it.
>meanwhile on /lit/
>doodles doodles doodles
>dude why didn't he just draw a fucking comic at this point

>>7913503
well known != greatest
did he even have a single good comic?

>>7914443
That's a very Toriyama looking bike design. I dig it.

>>7914460
People raved about Fritz the Cat, which became a more well known movie.
There's also his adaption of the bible, which some cite as one of the greatest comics made.
Haven't read either, so I can't give a personal opinion.

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i preferred is earlier work before it became extremely repetitive and ugly looking. His earlier work honestly was super soulful. Even though he hates it my favourite work of his was the big yum yum book. Also he is pretty old now, do you think he'll croak this year?
>>7914213
same here, the pop looking visuals blow me away. I tried to replicate in some ways but I didn't have the same skill to make it as amazing
>>7914427
>I like Vaughn Bode Visually, but he also falls into the 'dudesexlmoa' camp.
like all comix people there will be a little bit of sex humour (which doesn't bother me too much since i like the girl designs) He also does scifi and fantasy comics, he is like if david bowie made comics instead of music
>>7914443
love the artwork here. Did you read any of his comics? its not always gags but i do agree it mostly os that. Imagine if he did some actual long stories, wouldnt that be great
>>7914469
fritz is actually kinda good unlike his comics now (which are ugly and stupid.)

>>7914155
Before ww2 there were artists like winsor mccay, George Herriman, walt kelly, carl barks ect

>>7914469
crumb hated the movie ircc kek

>>7914480
*he hated it so much he killed off the character

>>7914480
bakshi wasn't that good anyway

>>7914484
I can't think of a more suitable director for underground comix though.

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>>7913503
I liked his early artstyle way more all across the board, still had that free flowing slightly shaky linework that I love about him but there was still a self-evident level of control and a lack of pretension, his really late works are just downright fuckin ugly lol
why are western artists so consistently conducive to shittifying their styles the older they get

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>>7914542
like just look at this, look how simple yet elegant the simplification is on that left page

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>>7914543
I'd read a thousand manga issues drawn in the style on the right

>>7914544
and compare that to some of his most recent work rofl

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>>7914547
forgot to attach

>>7914548
The overworked look kinda works for that particular image's topic though, but I agree overall.
I particularly like the drawing on the right of >>7914543, she's a beatnik babe.

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>>7914542
have you checked out the big yum yum book before? that shit was soulful

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Robert Crumb has got to have the worst art style I know.
His characters look ugly, smelly and covered in house dust.
Beyond the art you have someone who makes himself look pathetic every chance he gets and is way too outspoken about his sexual fantasies. At some point bluntness about fetishes becomes insufferable. Think of Tarantino who puts feet in every movie.
I think as artists we all strive to create something beautiful. It's fun to draw something ugly every once in a while but I've never seen anything from Crumb that wasn't hideous. Hell, I'd even respect that consistency but unfortunately it always looks shit.

I have no idea how you people keep glazing him. I find nothing I like here.
I'm serious. I'm at a loss. I cannot comprehend how anyone could possibly be attracted to this. I consider this a bait thread.
Shit art, obnoxious personality, no cultural impact.
to answer your question: no.

>>7914663
Hi, Robert. What's up?

>>7913920
>>7914443
it looks like an evolutionary offshoot of anime

>>7915175
he probably liked astroboy or something

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>>7915175
>>7915223
There were artists who drew in a way that seems very 'anime' yonks ago... not to dismiss the possible astroboy influence though.

>>7915175
>>7915223
>>7915260
The original anime look came from Ozamu Tezuka trying to copy classic American cartoons and funny pages

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>>7915175
You mean american cartoons. Big expressive eyes = american.

>>7913503
when he published that comic "a world without jews" or something, all of his "free speech artist" friends in America like Art Spiegelman attempted to ostracise him and blacklist him from all publishers, for that, he's eternally based, he also has a unique style.

>>7914427
this site and the internet in general has seen a vast uptick in zoomer "born agains" who are by nature, prudes, I think you'd have to be blind.
Even Catholics I have spoken to seem to wince at a lot of raw, earthy art.

>>7914663
>I think as artists we all strive to create something beautiful.
good luck with that commie

>>7915260
I can't help but feel the shift towards anime in terms of popularity was kinda self-inflicted on the west in some ways.
>Back in the 80's, episodes outsourced to Japan from western cartoons were among the best looking ones visually.
>Aside from Speed Racer, Gatchaman, Dragonball, and Sailor Moon, anime like Macross, Fist of the North Star, Record of Lodoss War, Vampire Hunter D, and Dominion Tank Police all began scratching itches a good chunk of people weren't getting from western animated shows anymore.
>As cool as those 90's DC and Marvel shows were, it sucks that they never got proper teen/mature animated series on American TV the way that teen and mature manga were adapted into teen and mature anime on Japanese TV.
>The animation age ghetto, TV watchdog groups, and S&P mandates were alive and well in the 80's and 90's, limiting what most animated TV shows could do in the west compared to what anime was doing in Japan around the same time.
>In the 2010's, shorts programs from CN and Nick and wanting cheaper and quicker animation pigeonholed so many recent 2D shows and pilots into having gross and/or simple low effort art styles, further driving people toward anime.

Say what you will about shonenslop and stuff like Frieren, but those look cool to watch compared to some random Terminator and Skull Island animated series and shows like Vox Machina, Steven Universe, Craig of the Creek, Fionna and Cake, and Cupcake & Dino.

>>7915851
I agree 100%.
In terms of aesthetics, the average anime easily mogs ANY Western show today.
Yes, the animation is more fluid. But is that really worth it when all the characters look simplified into oblivion?
Shame we don't have a wider range of animation styles.
Some western shows have great background art at least.

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>>7914441
>Garo
My favorite of that group is Yoshihiro Tatsumi, his biography A Drifting Life is good and covers a huge history of manga/gekiga if that's your thing.
Crumb is a S tier draftsmen, letterer and designer, but I've never cared for his stories, if you swapped the art but kept the characters and story beats I don't think he'd be as memorable.

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>>7915870
>Crumb is a S tier draftsmen, letterer and designer, but I've never cared for his stories, if you swapped the art but kept the characters and story beats I don't think he'd be as memorable.
His collabs with Harvey Pekar are quite good, if you're a Tatsumi fan you'd probably dig them. Also his 80's stuff in magazines like Weirdo exploring esoteric subjects like Phillip K. Dick's spiritual vision quests or Boswell's London Journal are much more interesting than his 60's and early 70's stuff when he was trying to be funny.

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>>7915866
>ANY Western show today.
Love, Death & Robots? Though that's on a short by short basis.
Overall I agree though, but I think things are changing as we FINALLY start moving towards having more mature animated shows for adults, and not just adult comedies and children's shows, both of which seem to only further the visual degradation of the medium.

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A True Story,believe it or not.

My feud with Robert Crumb.

I live in Jersey, and NYC is a short bus ride to Port Authority Bus Terminal. There was an exhibition of his work,and I went with a lady friend to see it. There was a camera crew setting up for Crumb's appearance, but we showed up early to look at everything. A print of his Mr Natural went for $1500,and it amazed me. But then he arrived and the fun started.

I am,or was then,a hulking guy 6'3" who tosses boxes around all night for a living with shoulder length blond hair and wearing a leather jacket,unconsciously portraying one of his own stereotypes unintentionally. He bustles past me,looks me up and down, and SNORTLES derisively at me,and storms past. I am like Fuck You Buckaroo who needs THAT shit? He went into his antics,ending with his typical Piggy Back Ride thing he does with amazonian women,and the camera was eating it up. Suddenly the camera turns to me and my friend, and asks us if we had a question for Mr. Crumb.

And I said >"Oh,no. Never disturb a genius in mid hump."

We made to leave,and suddenly the directress tried to have me sign a release so they can use it. I smiled,said No,just snip it. And saw Crumb scowling after me.

Years later I was at St Marks Place,sort of refereeing a loud argument two random denizens were having instead of an actual fight. I was trying to observe the confrontation and keeping it from escalating, when all three of us were noticing an elderly gentleman loudly berating me. It was Crumb, still sore from having to delete a good segue from his biography, making that section end abruptly. Once I realized who he was, I explained him to the other two,and told Crumb that there will be an inevitable Criterion collection version, and he can restore the scene with my blessing. He calmed down and we all went away.

I never saw the Criterion collection version, but I will eventually.

>>7916417
i need to check that one out. I hear good things about it.

>>7916417
>here's a picture of a nigger
WAOW I absolutely HAVE to watch this I can't possibly miss out on BLACK PEOPLE in my entertainment after I see them being loud pushing drugs and taking shits on the sidewalk IRL every fucking day!!!!! I love western art and of course BLACK PEOPLE so much bros I can't wait to leave my whole fucking nation to amazing BLACK PEOPLE Ubermensch who have given our civilization things like rap music and basketball n shiet, can't get enough of POWERFUL BLACK PEOPLE in the media

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>>7916808

>>7916808
>here's a picture of a nigger
You're welcome anon, but did you HAVE to make a post as you jerk off?

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>>7916808
>immediate automatic reaction to seeing a black person in any capacity without any context whatsoever
genuinely, utterly, irredeemably, incomprehensibly, unfathomably and truly MIND BROKEN

r crumb married two jewish women

this is a cool thread thank you for expanding my horizons

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>>7916456
... FAR OUT !

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>Archie was drawn at 12x17"
>Crumb now draws at 14x17"
This is exciting because he now has a few more inches of width to add background art. He even drew GENESIS at 11x14" lol

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What was Marty Pahls like, was he like the tomdnyc of Cleveland or...? It's kind of strange that he never features in a comic

>>7917518
He was Robert's friend for years, but things got weird when he married Robert's sister and she became a lesbian and left him, and he quickly became an alcoholic to cope from the heartache.

>>7917522
trying to picture the Butch Yum Yum Book rn

>>7916456
I'll take shit that never happened for $400 Alex

Jk cool story bro whether it's true or not

>>7917522
i wish the two sisters and marty pahls appeared in the documentary

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>>7917710

Marty Pahls died right as Zwigoff was kicking production into high gear, I'm sure he would've appeared if he hadn't died prematurely. The Crumb sisters refused to participate.

>>7914474
>>7914578
>>7914663
Agree with these. Crumb's older brother was also clearly more talented but just never tapped into his gift
Crumb himself has some kind of horrifying brainrot where it's just the inverse of what normie boomers think. "You like war? Actually I think war sucks! You like cities? Actually I prefer nature! You like pretty things? Well my art is really ugly!" It was passable in the 60's but you gotta really grow out of that shit

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>>7917909
He's actually changed quite a bit in the last few years, he's gotten more paranoid (understandable) the last decade, and since Aline's death, he's gotten more spiritual. He believes in an afterlife and an eternal soul now, has even talked about astral projecting.

>>7917907
what a shame, atleast charles crumb was in it (he was the best part.)
>>7917909
thats true... I wished they'd somehow just compiled all of his comics and upload it online but i guess its too late now. Have you read crumb family comics before? it features very revealing letters from charles

This guy >>7915350