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Size comparison with other jets

how did Turkey shit out an aerospace industry out of nowhere?

>>64898170
Drones and upgrade work on F4s.

So is everyone copying the F-22 because its been 30 years since all the patents about the pre production design?

>>64898170
They’d been making parts for a while, and were had some fairly advanced facilities built for their F-35 work share before being booted from the program. The latter part is particularly helpful since they clearly borrowed a lot of Lockheed’s homework for their F-22 at home.

>>64898170
50 years. Turkish companies are building parts, weapons etc for jet aircrafts for 50 years now.

>>64898170
They didn't.
This is a full blown cargo cult, like a lot of the turkish "defense industry".
They build things which roughly look the part, but under the hood there's only ancient shit.

Like this "5th gen fighter" is using a 1970's engine, the same thing that's in the F-16's they got.
They obviously have no expertise for radar, fly by wire, aerodynamics, etc.

>>64898198
engine part will be resolved, ground tests for local engine begins by 2028

Turkish radars and avionics are already installed various platforms. From F-16 to HALE drones, helicopters,AEW-C aircraft to AA frigates. Aselsan in Ankara has one of the world's largest radar factory operational and more facitilies are being added.

https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/industry/aselsan-plans-to-double-production-capacity

>>64898198
and you can tell all that because you are an atmchair expert of bullshitting online
get a hike, moron

>>64898239
Take a hike?

>>64898239
damn this nigga's got that rage grammar.

>>64898198
F110 is still a very solid engine. Pretty good odds it’s the Navy choice for powering F/A-XX, as admirals are on record saying it will be powered by a derivative of an in service engine, and it’s the only one that really fits the bill unless they intend on making an underpowered pig with F414s

>>64898238
>>64898239

>engine part will be resolved, ground tests for local engine begins by 2028
Developing a 5th gen engine takes 2-3 decades for a nation with real brains and research unis and industry, turkey has none of that.
In fact turkey has a massive brain drain problem, everyone smart left the country a long time ago.

>Turkish radars and avionics are already installed various platforms.
Doesn't mean they're any good.

>>64898250
He's a low IQ patriotic turk, he's butthurt.

>>64898255
>F110 is still a very solid engine.

Ehhh the latest versions like the EX 132, not terrible but still.
1:8 TWR.
Modern engines are 1:11.
Turkey only has access to 129 which are 1:7.5 TWR.
Very 4th gen engine, 30+ years behind the current state of the art.

>Pretty good odds it’s the Navy choice for powering F/A-XX, as admirals are on record saying it will be powered by a derivative of an in service engine, and it’s the only one that really fits the bill unless they intend on making an underpowered pig with F414s

I doubt that, they'll scale an F135 or F119 and use that.
You can do a lot by modifying the fan size a bit and keeping the core the same, 90% commonality for logistics and maintenance but different performance tune for the application.

>>64898257
You are butthurt anon. Turkey building jet engines, radars and aircraft truly devastates you, i can see from here.

>>64898271
I just can’t see them going with Pratt given their current capacity issues in both the civilian and military sectors. Plus the F119 is out of production, and anything near F135 class is overkill for something that meets cat/trap weight limits. My money is on GE getting a nod to build something with higher than -132 performance. Back in the day they got the -132 done pretty damn quick, and iirc they were marketing that the F110 still had significant growth margin beyond that if anyone was willing to pay for it.

>>64898284
Well US procurement, anything goes these days.
But if GE squeezes more performance out of an F110 it's by raising the inlet temp, cause that's how you get more thrust out of any engine.
It's basic thermodynamics, higher temp differential = higher pressure differential = more thrust.
You can tweak bypass ratio for different flight regimes but F110 is already tuned for the regime you would want in an F/A-XX unless they go very A and very little F and tune it for low subsonic instead of high subsonic.
To raise temps they'll backport YF120/YF136 technology and materials.
Sure it will have the same mounting points and inlet size as an F110 and probably fit the same engine bays, but internally it won't have much to do with an original 1980's F110.

>>64898313
Well, this is of course all speculation on my part, but what public statements we do have suggest they’re looking for a more strike than fighter so to speak, to fill the hole that the A-6 retiring and ATA never materializing left. Public statements suggest a very modest range increase, meaning they’re probably looking for something with quite a lot of payload to justify buying it when you look at what the F-35 can already carry internally. When that already does 2x AARGM-ER plus 2x AMRAAM internally I’d imagine we’re looking at probably 4x AARGM-ER or internal LRASM carriage to justify the program. On top of that while renders are only worth so much, you do see dorsal inlets show up there more than other programs, suggesting to me that pure flight performance isn’t the primary concern. I’ll defer to your engine knowledge, as you clearly have a lot more than I do, but I think what you’ve said about tuning it more for subsonic efficiency would track if what I believe they’re doing with the program at all resembles the final product.

>>64898276
as opposed to the turk that got so mad he forgot how to speak properly?
sure pal.

nta but this smells suspiciously like a samefag.

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>>64898190
>>64898185
>>64898170
Turkey had their own F-16 assembly line.
Set up in the late 80s with General Dynamics and TAI.

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>>64898357
you are posting in this thread just because you are butthurt. I don't know which shithole you are from (but i have some guess) but your country is not able to produce something like Kaan, 100% sure about this.

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posting a lovely Kaan picture before going to bed

>>64898384
idk, turkanon, i'm not the guy you were arguing with, i just noticed you were seething very hard.

>>64898257
> Developing a 5th gen engine takes 2-3 decades
Where is this claim even coming from? And why are you so butthurt by Turkey's aerospace industry and its capabilities?

>>64898170
>how did Turkey shit out an aerospace industry out of nowhere?
Rome is still alive in them somewhere

>>64898417
way better than that south korean gook shit

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They are retarded they try to catch up with the current best thing which is already 20 years old. If Dassault and other European companies (that have much more capable engineers and much more money) decided to skip the 5th gen because unlike Turks, they aren't retarded and just pretending to have a good MIC

>>64898198
Why are you so mad that Turkey is developing their own aviation industry and succeeding in doing so? More nations need to be like them

>>64898148
Why the weird proportions? Engines too long?

>>64898198
Most amateurs and researchers are going to go off of the geometry alone for comparisons between jets. Which is why the su57 was roasted so hard despite the general public having no idea what its radar coating is like or what what the recent upgrades bring.

>>64902265
Most countries don't have the population. Turkey is 18th in the world there.

Efficiencies of scale compound and free up workers and develop institutional knowledge towards high-tech production. You can't just make single-crystal turbine blades or 20 billion transistor 2nm electronics as a cottage industry, you need an economy that has transitioned beyond cottage industry into large-scale manufacturing.
Even France (21) and UK (20) have difficulty going solo on aerospace projects.

Australia doesn't even have a domestic automotive industry anymore since they're too small to scale up enough to compete with the big boys.

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>>64902318
Anon, you know all countries don't work the same way or have the same economies and industrial priorities? This isn't a 4x strategy game where we all have a tech tree we need to fill in at a linear rate.

Using your logic, explain why South Kora has had a domestic arms industry (and cars, and electronics) for decades despite ranking far lower in population than any of your examples/

>>64902338
Level: Asian.

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>got your nose!

>>64902397
*and note that South Korea builds GE engines under license like Turkey. They don't have their own homegrown engine like China.

>>64902318
>Even France (21) and UK (20) have difficulty going solo on aerospace projects
Because they're broke as fuck and their once vaunted aviation industries have atrophied to the point where the UKs is at risk of shutting down entirely. It's all about political willpower not >big numbers means big industry numbers

>>64902318
Australia doesn't have an automotive industry because of logistics, retard. They're far from everyone and every auto maker in the world is 100% globalized, so logistics is the only factor that determines if your auto industry is profitable.

>>64902450
Australia has coal and they have steel and yet they can't mount 4 tires on an engine and sell it to their own people better than a Jap can from 5000 miles away.
If Japan can sell to Australia, the logistics works exactly the same in reverse. The ships all make round trips, after all.
Australia just doesn't have the population for enough domestic consumption to have a domestic auto industry large enough to grow to a globally competitive level. Their entire domestic consumption is just a tiny fraction of what the global players are shitting out who had the advantage of scaling up to support their larger domestic populations which then led to them scaling further to support the entire planet.

>>64902318
>>64902571
Australia builds MRAPs, IFVs, boats, small arms, missiles, UCAVs and a bunch of other things anyway, many of them domestic designs and variants.
I think they're an example that if you pick your battles on defence industry you can build and maintain certain capabilities just fine as a middle power, you just shouldn't try to do everything.
Like it makes a lot more sense for them to buy American for their manned fighters and develop a UCAV to their needs and potential export right now than it would to try and build up an aerospace sector that can cover all those needs in-house.
Turkey is trying to do it all, which strikes me as somewhat unwise. I respect the ambition but I'm not entirely sure it's all going to come together long-term.

>>64902608
Turkey has to develop their domestic capability since they're not white. Whites will only ever accept brownoids as puppets, never as equals.
So since Russia only accepts non-Russians as puppets and whites only accept nonwhites as puppets, if they want to have their own presence on the world stage they have to stand on their own two feet.

>>64898128
Israelis wont like this will they? Will they ever strike Turkey one day because they're getting (technologically) dangerously closer to them than Egypt, Iraq and Iran ever were?

>>64902752
Turkey is anti-Israeli, but they don't seem to be, "We are not just willing to die in the name of Allah, but in fact prefer to die in the name of Allah in the name of the genocide of the Jews," anti-Israeli.
In the end Israel has nukes and one hell of a defensive force to deter any rational opponent. Egypt wised up and Turkey so far hasn't shown themselves to be as dumb as the 1960's Egyptians.

>>64898170
By going step by step and being relatively efficient with it.

>>64898198
Greek? Maybe you should do the same instead of just making imitation kebobs.

>>64898198
sounds like russian butthurt

>>64898128
With just these aircraft, Turkiye .... has surpassed the entire continent of Europe which has been incapable of producing an indigenous fifth generation fighter

>>64898368
If so, why did they need the Lockheeb's upgrade package so badly

>>64903485
>if, so
Not if so. They had their own assembly line. It was set up under Peace Onyx I.
But they can only fabricate so much of the plane and materials. Many components had to be shipped in, especially new Block upgraded components. Which all had to be purchased for each plane that they slapped together.

Tons of countries got an engineering package and advisors telling them how to set up a manufacturing line.
That doesn't mean you get all the scientific background to make and develop your own shit from it.
Someone shows up and literally tells you exactly how to make a part.
He doesn't tell you why you're making the part that way, or the 9001 thing they tried that didn't work, or necessarily the physics and math behind it.
Having license build a 1980's jet gives you surprisingly little relevant expertise to make a 5th gen.
Do you think turkey made every turbine blade out of single crystal grown blanks they grew themselves?
Made the AESA modules?
Ofc not.
They got such parts delivered.

Building an airplane locally in a country like turkey means you do assembly for the most part. Bash sheet metal, route 9001 cables, lots of labor.
Doesn't mean you build the material science expertise to grow turbine crystals or build a semiconductor fab specialised on gallium for AESA modules, get real.

Like I don't get how this is hard to understand, turkey can't even make something simpler like a tank themselves.
Their Altay has 5 prototypes around, they rely on M60's and Leopards for the most part.
And if you look at the altay components, it's south korean shit they license build, and the koreans blatantly copied the leopard.

If you can't make a fucking diesel, a transmission and a gun yourself without a korean engineering package, how do you expect them to make a 5th gen engine and gallium based aesa tech?

They simply lack the university research base and industry base.
It's like poland building a tank chassis in some tractor factory.
Sure it looks like the real deal, is reasonably close, they plasma cut some 20mm sheet metal, slap some armor boxes on it, looks like a tank. But then who sells you all the parts to go on it? No polish company. Does not exist.

Same deal with turkey.
Half of nato's fighting vehicles run on an MTU engine for a reason. Monopoly on good heavy high torque diesels for tanks.
Thales sells thermals to everyone including your mom, even the russians pre ukraine for a reason.

Such expertise takes decades to build and few players have top notch stuff.
Ofc you can put a truck diesel in your tank but it sucks.

Somebody is very butthurt. I mean very BUTTHURT

>Do you think turkey made every turbine blade out of single crystal grown blanks they grew themselves?

Yes

>Made the AESA modules?

Yes

>can't make a fucking diesel a transmission

there are hundreds of Turkish armored vehicles that run on Turkish designed and built diesels

>and a gun

If you say the tank gun, it's also made in Ankara MKE facilities.

>Doesn't mean you build the material science expertise to grow turbine crystals or build a semiconductor fab specialised on gallium for AESA modules, get real.

funny thing Turkey has the semiconductor fab specialized on GAN AESA modules, that's in Ankara.

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>>64904216
I mean the tank engines built in Kazan, Türkiye

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>>64904238
AESA GAN modules and transistors are built in Türkiye, in Aselsan facilities.

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>>64904263
3rd and 4th gen single crystal turbine blades are produced in Eskisehir, Türkiye, in TEI facilities.

We are living in the age of information. This is available online even the dumbest AI can answer these question. Quite easy to debunk all horseshit written here

>64904053
>64904073

I get paid to analyse this shit at my day job, I'm quite tired of random thirdies pretending they magically build state of the art defence systems over night.
You're acting like an indian, basically. National pride overruling any logic.

Ofc turkey does build diesel engines and puts them in tanks. But these have power densities of 50-60 hp per liters, and or horrible torque figures.
They do for an IFV in a pinch, but really if you compare them to real MBT engines, they lack torque and struggle with acceleration.
Modern MTU tank engines cracked 100 horse power per liter, exceedingly compact engines, while also offering superior fuel economy.
Nobody else can compete with that.

Aselsan, as most turkish defence companies, has had essentially zero export customers.
Ask yourself why.
Turkey builds this stuff because it has internationally alienated most partners and has no other choice.
But turkey is a country of 89 million, with an IQ one standard deviation below the west, and massive brain drain for decades.
Your shit sucks and nobody wants it. You build this yourself because it's better than not having anything.

I can't even tell you how hard your shit sucks because nobody seriously evaluated it, that's how atrocious it is.

>>64904216
When the post is so full of seethe you can smell the turkroach while reading it

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Some person is anally devastated about these developments in Türkiye.

>I get paid to analyse this shit at my day job,
No you are not getting paid for this. All your claims can be debunked by simple google search.
>they magically build state of the art defence systems over night.
most of these electronics, metallurgical and mechanical systems were being developed for 25+ years now. These factories that build tank engines or GAN AESA radars were not made overnight. You are a tier I idiot.

>Modern MTU tank engines cracked 100 horse power per liter, exceedingly compact engines, while also offering superior fuel economy.
Devastated. Anally devastated

>Aselsan, as most turkish defence companies, has had essentially zero export customers.
Aselsan has exported stuff to 92 countries. They started making billion usd from exports by 2015. google it. I can't believe somebody is being paid for zero knowledge.

>>64902405
no one else said it, they can't be bothered to chew through the capcha, but anon, you did something great. I kek'd.

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>>64904355
Damn i liked this AI comparison tool, BMC truly made something to be proud of. All APC, IFV, SPG and MBT engines are designed and built in Türkiye, locally.

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>>64904433
>>64904433

The engine of Turkish 155mm SPGs. Gonna love this AI shit

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>>64904450
Turkish designed & built 1500hp tank engine and transmission being tested on 65 tons tank.

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>>64904355
Cute to compare your engines to a 1970's design.
Let's look at MTU's 2005 offering, the 890 series, shall we?

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>>64904355
>>64904433
>>64904450
Congrats on copying a 35 year old engine series with less than half the power density of a 20 year old engine I guess.

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>>64904489
Turkish one has greater torque in 600 hp range. 2780 Nm @ 1000-1600 rpm (for 447 kW)

And Turkish tracked IFV & SPG engine, the 1000 hp one has almost 50% more torque 3100 Nm @ 2000 rpm (for 750 kW)

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>>64904519
>>64904519

My AI says MTU 893 (12V 890) is a 27Liters engine. So that power density table is very likely wrong.

>>64904565
890 series has ~1.1 liters per cylinder.
The 892 in the puma has 10 cylinders, 11.1 liters
The 893 has 12 cylinders, can you multiply 11.1 liters times 1.2 cylinders? hm? is 13.32 liters.

The data is correct, I know MTU products in my sleep, your AI is hallucinating because you feed it turkroach copium.

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>64904519
>copying

oh shit, he got owned and dropped the word. a couple posts above he was claiming that Turkey can't even make diesels.

What an imbecile.

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>64904579
I don't assume you know anything. But it's understandable for the Hun to make smaller tank engines with low stroke and low torque. As they will use these things in flatlands. Turkish armor will be used in high elevation, hilly terrain or desert environment. Needs torque, needs better cooling than the hun stuff.

Anyways, MTU 893 (12V 890) do not give any proper results. Not even on MTU's own website.

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>>64904590
You can't even google specs of an engine?

3061601-mtu-defense-brochure.pdf
Page 6

I'm not going to explain how torque and transmissions work and why an engine with 3x the RPM has 2/3rds torque and is still better. I doubt you would understand given your IQ.

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>64904617

*projected development

hey moron, do you even know what asterisk stands for? The thing is not available on MTU's website for a reason. The engine does not even exist.

And have you noticed that it's listed under light & medium armored vehicles. Even as an intended project, it doesn't have the torque for MBT application.

Do they seriously pay you for this, BWHAHAHAHAHA

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>>64904647
The kraut company lists their typical 27L ~1500hp engine for MBT application.

It's very obvious this very high power density engine is not suitable for tanks.

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>>64904647
This brochure is from 2005. Like all MTU series 890 series is modular, you can have any cylinder count you want.
The 10 cylinder has been powering the puma for 2 decades ...
But sure, MTU is unable to add 2 cylinders to it ...

Fucking thirdie cope man. TURKYE STRONG! OF STRONGEST! MAKE MANY TANK ENGINE GOOD YES!!!
Go park a tank on a hill for 4 hours until you get flanked by an ATGM team why don't you.

>>64904656
Older series are still offered because they were integrated into Leopard 2, Leclerc and Challenger variants in form of Europowerpack for export customers like saudi arabia.
Also for poorfags like turkey.
You couldn't afford the most advanced MTU engines.
Probably you are also banned from receiving such advanced technology.

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Before the conversation i would like to point out that Türkiye has kicked everyone's ass in Syria. Including Russia and US. Meanwhile your shithole didn't win a war in last 150 years.

There will never be a 12L 1500 HP diesel engine installed on 60 ton MBTs. It's against the psychics. There is no example of it.

>>64904678
this being said, the kraut installs their 27L engine on Leopard 2a8

>enter thread
>it’s just the turkroach OP seething that people are not taking his shitty jet seriously even though it’s all angular n’shiet like those western stelf fighters
I don’t know what i expected.

>>64904565
>My AI says
people like you should be culled

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>>64904748
If you don't use AI tools for searching the web, you are an idiot.

>>64904756
Ein Döner mit alles, bitte. Und scharf.

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>>64904763
>why don’t you eat feces like we do IN GERMANY

>>64904756
ah yes, the newfangled wundertech that famously never gets things wrong regularly

>>64902693
Have you seen a turk? They are white. If an italian is white, a turk is white.

>>64904769
unironically the have the same kind of shit in russia about moscow kek

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>>64898148
The roach jet is xbox hueg

>>64898148
>>64898128
can I get the qrd of what the intended role of this plane is?
obviously its a modern fighter that is designed to help Turkey build its aerospace industry and be self reliant but what is it supposed to compete with?
Its not a 5th gen clearly and its intended to replace their F-16s. How does it stack up to midrange offerings like KF-21 and JF-17?

>>64904238
>>64904263
>>64904294
Absolutely bodied that Gayreek

>>64905807
You asked some provocative questions. My answers is yes, to all of them

>>64906072
that was easy. The guy doesn't even know what torque stands for. Bugatti has this 8L, 1800 hp engine. Why don't they put that in MBTs?

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>>64898170
They took western rejection (F35s, engines) very personal and it shows. Imperial Japan of the 21st century

get ready for when it crashes: we kaan

I don't know why is this making everyone shit their pants. Do you not want to see more jets? I thought this was a weapons board, and yet everyone seems more preoccupied with the politics and economics of the project. It's not like any of you have an actual stakes in this, are you not interested in the plane itself?

>>64906094
>Why don't they put that in MBTs?
shit MTBF and fuel economy is something that only poors care about

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>>64906195

>>64906212
It looks like an F-22 drawn by memory. People don’t get excited about shameless ripoffs. In 20-30 years if they spit out something actually unique people might care then.

>>64906212
It's a board where we post google image search pictures of weapon related things so we can seethe about whatever country hurt our fee-fees, it's literally the worst of /pol/ and /int/ but with a thin veneer of talking about guns

p.s. everyone who replies to me is a chinkshill pajeet turkroach spammer, everyone who disagrees with me is literally doing a 9/11

>>64907478
>simple facts about thirdie planes being worse than western ones
>y-you just don't like weapons
lol

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>>64907274

>>64904302
Plenty of customers for Turkish products in Southeast Asia. Indonesia has ordered Kaan, Hisar and Kaplan MT

>>64907518
If seeing a third world plane makes you shit yourself with rage then yeah, you don't like weapons, also you're very insecure, probably because you realize you live in a failed state

>>64909376
>if seeing a third world plane makes you shit yourself with rage
It doesn’t, and it hasn’t done this for anyone in this thread.
The only ones who appear to be shitting themselves with rage ITT appear to be the turkroaches defending said thirdie weapon.
>failed state
Again, ironic coming from a thirdie who’s all sour because his thread didn’t get the response he wanted.

>>64909607
>everyone who points out my childish behavior is a turk
Not my thread, retard. Sorry about your insecurities, also bump

>>64904355
>>64904433
>>64904450
>using "ai"
Do turd-worlders really!?

>>64905807
Well it's obviously just meant to have every trait possible but it'll only be used for bvr just live every single jet currently in service.

>>64907417
Pretty much every fighter design in the last 15 years has "looked like an F22" though

>>64913637
Name three that aren't the F-35 (designed by the same people) or J-35 (copied from the F-35).

>>64913637
No, not at all. The F-22 planform remains unique among stealth fighters. This is a complete ripoff, check the overhead view at the top of the thread. The F-35 doesn’t even come close to borrowing as much, and it’s made by the same manufacturer. It’s a shitty clone, more so than any other foreign design, which is why nobody is impressed by it.

>>64913658
I am certain nobody in Turkey expected to "impress" people in countries that fly F22s and F35s. The question is, will it appeal to customers in poorer countries where funds are limited and it might be a choice between this or some used mirage 2000s

>>64913678
Over half of this thread being a Turk going “look how great we are” would disagree

Turkey .... would not be able to defend itself from the kind of attack the US and Israel are presently inflicting upon Iran

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>>64913710
It's a different situation when US directly gets involved. Also it's another thing when US keeps providing ordnance and replenish loses of Israel.

Israel can start a such war against Turkey and claim some early successes, but they won't be able to finish that war.

>>64898148
wait,.. the f22 dedicated anti air fighter is bigger than the multi purpose lug ordnance around f35?!

>>64915294
The F22 was an F15 replacement, the F35 is an F16 (and F18 and Harrier) replacement. The high side of a hi lo air mix is always bigger and more capable, and in the case of dedicated air superiority you want low wing loading (so bigger wings relative to weight) for better maneuvreability and energy retention. The low side cares more about things like how many you can stuff in a carrier hangar.

>>64915308
i see. ill have to update my archetypes

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>>64905807
Bigger sensor suite, more payload, more range. Equipped with EOTS, IRST, DIRCM by default. Burfis Radar (Now named Murad-600) has +2000+ T/R modules designed with peak power over 40 Kw. The smaller 20 kw radar is already Installed in KE drone, now claim to detect 1 m2 targets beyond ranges of 120 nm. This one will be able to detect 1m2 targets beyond 200 nm, which means a Turkish plane flying over Hatay or Cyprus will be able to engage non-stealth aircrafts flying over Israel.

>>64913705
All I saw was some people arguing over jet turbine blades and a couple of 12 year old americans getting mad because there was a conversation that wasn't the usual mind numbing USA #1 brainrot

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>>64915592
I take USA #1 brain rot over TURKYE STRONG from one IQ70 goat fucker in anatolya talking to himself like a schizo desu.

>>64898176
>So is everyone copying the F-22 because its been 30 years since all the patents about the pre production design?

no, they're making the same design solutions because the laws of physics, aerodynamics, and radar return data are the same if you're in the US, Korea, Russia, or bongo-bongo land, you fucking moron.

>>64915592
>and a couple of 12 year old americans getting mad
lets be honest, it was a fucking greek that was being ass blasted about this. As an American, I wish our other allies were as gun-ho about building up their defense industries in the way that Turkey is currently doing

If you look at it from the back, the newer block looks a bit more like the Su-57 because the widened center fuselage makes it look flatter.

>>64916999
That’s cope. The future is in bullshit sci-fi triangles with no tails and almost flying wing like configurations. Less agile but better stealth, range, and speed. Even the American air force is just barely accepting the concept with the F-47. No surprise a country already taking on a million development challenges with its first ever manned fighter is not going to take a novel layout risk. Turkey’s motivation is entirely about reducing foreign reliance in strategic stuff, not really push boundaries. But no, F-22 isn’t the only way to do it. F-22 was in fact the conservative layout compared to F-23. That’s why everyone trying to make something proper without taking on extra risk copies it. Not because it’s perfect, but because it’s conservative.

>>64898238
Shut the fuck up, roach.

>>64917992
>just barely accepting the concept
>only country with manned tailless aircraft in service
>multiple manned and unmanned tailless projects from the 90s and 2000s
>god only knows what black programs were up to

>>64898148
>easier target to hit
Smaller is better.

>>64898239
>get a hike, moron
It's
>take a bike, ya marroon.

>>64915286
>t. threw away the F-35 just to get the S-400 because of how shitty your domestic A2AD is, now having to grovel to America to get back into the program and Russia to take back the worthless pieces of shit

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>>64918154
Türkiye is grinding towards full sovereignty