Easy is a relative term. Without getting too autistic, the mechanics of how aircraft and SAMs interact aren't conducive to drawn-out attritional battles. If they go head to head, one side tends to win very quickly and decisively. And since aircraft have the advantage in deciding if they want to play or not, they tend to not go in unless they are very confident they are going to do it right.

>>64915325
before you say anything, I know these are s400 launchers
the soviets put the s300 system on their warships which led to the entire us military rather than just the air force developing a need to jam it. so now something as small as a harpoon can jam it. plus, countries that had it after the soviets collapsed have loose lips. ukraine and belarus, through intermediaries as well as official cooperation, gave the united states sensitive information about and components of the s300 including missiles, launchers and entire command and control elements.
the s400 system can't be that much different from the s300, which the americans know inside and out. we know the russian military industrial complex likes to repackage the same old shit with a shiny new title to sell to morons like the indians. they did it with the t-90 as well.
the russians are delusional if they think they can keep using the same fundamentals in any of their war machines that have been studied inside and out by the most expensive military in the world. they are behaving as if the 80's and 90's never happened and everything is still super sekrit.
i didn't proof read any of this btw

The new chinese radars are so much better than the S400, they are even superior to american AESA radars.

>>64915565
how come iran didn't get some of those between summer 2025 and now
or would xi not sell because he thought the US would get their hands on one that way

>>64915623
You said it.
>xi not sell because he thought the US would get their hands on one that way
Iran is disposable. It is merely a moral ally of china because both are against the US. China is 100% focused on its own defense, and on the future taking of Taiwan. They don't want to risk the US analyzing a captured chinese radar (which would very likely happen) because then the US would develop a way to counter then in a quite short time.

>>64915325
SAMs haven't been a serious threat to a real boy air force since the 70s and even back then they were manageable with good doctrine, skilled pilots with operational leeway, and good intelligence.

>>64915623
>>64915638
The old "monkey model" defense, huh? Well, the good thing for the ding-dongs is that they'll never need to be proven wrong, because the US will never invade mainland China and the mainland Chinese will never nut up and invade Taiwan, especially not after Xi dies and his gay identity cult gets sent to the forced labor camps.

>>64915325
You have to remember how old this stuff is, and how much has come into western hands due to the cold war ending allowing a complete breakdown of how it works and any system weaknesses. Even when you upgrade it, its still derived from the same original system and key principles of operation don't change.

And for countries like Iran, if you didn't develop it yourself, and don't have access to a large resources of engineering and research teams who know how it works in detail, it will be extremely hard to diagnose and correct for a weakness in a timely manner when an enemy exploits it. At best you can have a team of re-purposed maintenance techs and operators who are trying to work the problem from their knowledge.

>>64915651
they don't need to invade taiwan desu, they can slowly subvert it and take it over, KMT is already pro unification, why invade?

>>64915565
>didnt work in iran
>didnt work in venezuela
implessive

>>64915661
They just didn't know how to use it properly. Does Venezuela even have an integrated multi-domain sensor network? Likely not, nor does Iran.

>>64915680
so why did you send them equipment that would be useless without further equipment or or that they didnt know how to use? it couldnt be that you're changing the goalposts right?

>>64915325
Ukies used theirs with relatively good performance, until they ran out of munitions.

>>64915656
I mean keep trying to buy them out and see how it goes for you.

>>64915712
They used Soviet doctrine against Soviet aircraft flown by old men relying on Soviet doctrine. Basically a best case scenario, especially when you remember that Russian pilots are less skilled than Arabs.

>>64915656
KMT is in decline and needs to reform, last yuan election flattered them.

They got 0.5 million less votes last election than DPP, even with elector fatigue and a third party taking votes mostly off DPP. Sure they got a seat more than DPP due to first-past-the-post, but not a majority, and they seem to be reluctant to risk a new election any time soon which suggests they think the DPP would retake the Yuan.

In a presidential election its total vote count only, so going to be hard for them to win now with overly pro-Chinese candidates like their current leader and the third party dying off. So even if they get more power in the Yuan next election, they'll likely have a DPP president still.

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>>64915565
chinese radars aren't even superior to 30 year old American mechanical radars

>>64915565
>CHING CHONG PING PONG
you're next chang

>>64915352
Also IADS are supposed to be used in conjunction with a competent, capable air force to act as force multipliers for each other.

S-300 is a pretty capable platform, I think it's superior to patriot if you compare the systems in their "original" form". People just ignore that Iran had their IADS wacked by Mossad in the 12 day war, and Iran only really bothered to go after china to get their shit replaced 2-3 weeks before the current mess started.

Also like, you can give a shit ass S-75 or S-125 modern eletronic components, updated communication and radar systems to make them viable, which gives your air defenses more mass without costing too much.

>>64915651
Nigga, Venezuela had the early to mid 2000s models. Those radars are older than the F-35
>>64916115
I really doubt the AESA radar on the J-11BG is worse than the APG-63(V)1

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>>64915565

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>>64916290
Just to add on my first point a bit.

I think that specialized radars (search & fire control) are better than a single multifunctional unit, and i wish the west had something like S-300

>>64916328
Well given that the West focuses on naval and air radars rather than a ground emplacement is it really that surprising? The Patriots and other western system focus on missile defense rather than aircraft since doctrinally that is the job of the air force. You can not like that approach or think there needs to be overlap to ensure nothing slips by but it was a decision which was made and there are budgetary limitations

>muh chink AESA
They seem to get jammed all the time even when a congress cunt nobody likes visits Taiwan. Think what happened is as usual Russia claimed it had a technical advantage, in this case Jamming, since 2005 and thus the US put actual effort into jamming and the Russians were once again discovered to be bullshitting.

>>64915325
>Are these things really that easy to jam?
They're not, if you hear someone claiming they are then you can be confident that they don't know what they're talking about.
>I remember once reading that the Russian SAMs are the most dangerous shit in their arsenal
The vast bulk of Iranian SAMs are derivatives of American Hawks.
>0 downed jets over Iran is genuinely pathetic
If you have 0 downed jets that's an indication that their air defenses are so good that nobody is even trying to penetrate them. If you are conducting a serious air campaign you're going to have accidents at least, so not experiencing any losses at all indicates you're not even engaging with it. So it is genuinely pathetic, but not for the Iranians. GBAD isn't exactly able to go out and hunt down jets that don't come into range.
>I can see why stuff like Palantir is so crucial, enemy can't even shoot back
Oh, this is just an unserious propaganda thread. Carry on with your shilling.
>>64915352
>the mechanics of how aircraft and SAMs interact aren't conducive to drawn-out attritional battles.
I know what you're trying to say, and I know you're being reductive to avoid getting into the weeds, but I feel like this statement could be misleading to someone who doesn't understand the topic. In conflicts where at least one side has good air defenses, then this is more likely to lead to drawn-out attritional battles on the ground, while if neither side has good air defenses, then one side will quickly dominate the skies and dictate terms to their enemy without a protracted attritional battle.

>>64916533
apparently 500 targets have been struck, that's not a serious air campaign to you?

>>64915325
And people doubt if euro airforces can crush russia

>>64916542
If you're believing any numbers coming out at this stage in a war, you're an idiot. But even if it were true, no, that's not a serious air campaign. That's a tiny fraction of the targets that were hit by this point in the Gulf War air campaign, and they were fighting a much smaller military in a much smaller area. A serious air campaign against Iran would need orders of magnitude more than 500 strikes in a 24 hour period. Hell, Russia hits Ukraine with about that many strikes most weeks, and Ukraine is like half the size of Iran. We also don't know what proportion of those strikes were accomplished by air power rather than missiles, and if air power was used we don't know if they were able to penetrate Iranian air space or if they were using standoff munitions. Given that Iran is still managing to get off ballistic missiles and drones in large quantities, it's safe to say that the US and Israel at the very least do not have air superiority over all of Iran, and it's possible they don't have air superiority over any of it. We simply don't have enough information to say for sure yet.

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>>64915325
SEAD & DEAD by WIld Weasels is a thing.

>>64915656
KMT is not pro-unification you retard.

>>64919784
>KMT is not pro-unification you retard.
They are.
The CCP isn't their old enemy anymore, they became capitalist dictators and the KMT wants to be a part of it as local quislings like the HK figureheads.

>>64915707
>why did you send them equipment that would be useless without further equipment or or that they didnt know how to use?
To look like a good ally, pretend you care about them, and get access to sweeter deals for resources in exchange for shiny new weapons to scared America.

>>64916255
And as we have seen, russia can not build either, much less both

>>64916290
>Nigga, Venezuela had the early to mid 2000s models. Those radars are older than the F-35
Venezuela had at least one J-27A radar, which the Chinese claimed could detect an F-22 from 500 km away when they announced it in 2016. That was the most recent revision of that system until the announcement of the J-27V last year, which means not even China themselves has anything more advanced in widespread service.