sovereignty is measured in megatons

Nuclear winter was a Soviet psyop designed to weaken Western resolve that boomer faggots lapped up. Most actual studies on nuclear winter show that radiation levels would be elevated for a couple of weeks and return to habitable levels.

they're more deadly now that the western world relies on say, the cloudflare or McMaster headquarters not being a pile of rubble

We should have nuked Moscow the same day Hitler escaped to South America.

>>64917561
nuclear winter has nothing to do with radiation levels...

it's an exaggeration that's in everyone's interests to perpetuate

>>64917543
Cobalt-60 and Iodine-131 are the main problem with using nukes, that and MAD.

>>64917543
having weapons that wipe entire cities off the map and also have the potential to cause longer-term after effects with a ~45 minute travel time and a low chance to be intercepted does kind of seem ungentlemanly at the least

>>64917561
Nuclear winter is fake, but nuclear winter was also about the skies blotting out the sun with smoke and dust, not radiation.

>>64917543
End of civilization as we know it, not a permanent end to any kind of human civilization. Because everything is interlinked, a full collapse of supply chains would devastate both cities and countryside. Self-sustaining communities are extremely rare, starvation would be rampant, there would be a severe shortage of critical medicine supplies etc. The sheer amount of displaced people and struggle to find nutrition would require draconian control measures from any kind of authority trying to keep things from sliding into anarchy.

The society would change to adjust, or if a collapse comes, something new rises up, but it would be terrible for everyone involved. Yes, even for that one board schizo who thinks that his life would continue normally while he keeps laughing at the millions of dead urban dwellers.

>>64917627
NTA but you're right, and so is he.
In order to trigger a nuclear winter you'd need to target forests with the intention of starting massive fires. It's not clear this would happen, and considered unlikely even if you were trying. If you targeted cities or enemy military installations there is basically zero chance it would happen unless you were intentionally trying (spacing nukes to not interfere with plume generation) and even then it's questionable at best.

Can you post the
>I expect civilization to collapse within 5 years that's why I live in big city and have a tech career
mem? I really like it last week.

>>64917543
It's a dead meme's historical inertia. Today the standard nuclear arsenal of a superpower is about 1500 half-megaton nukes - and those are mostly tritium-boosted fission/thermonuclear designs. But at the height of the cold war in the 1970s when arsenal numbers had peaked, the standard arsenal was 20000+ nukes (due to the end of aerial delivery coinciding with the pre-MIRV icbm era) many of ten megatons and the tactical yields were often pure fission.

You can see why fallout used to be considered a major thing. The people who were starting their careers in the 1960s imbibed the 1970s atmosphere as mature adults and carried it on unreflectingly all the way into the 1990s when it became obsolete.

>>64917857
All of this has happened before and will happen again.

Nigga a mild flu that killed mostly old fucks and fatasses already fucked everything for years, and that's keeping all the physical and digital infrastructure intact. Even if we intercept 99% of nukes, a well placed shot in some key places and we're back to 70s tech because people are useless without internet.

I'd point out that everything was fucked because faggots cared rather than merely shrugging and accepting that the coof was going to kill twice as many vulnerable faggots as the flu and pneumonia usually did which amounts to fucking nothing. The coofening was either due to paranoia on the part of old fucks/jews in charge or a deliberate but failed attempt to push for more state control which fell through.

The funny part was just how naked the politicization was. For the first four months it was only /pol/tards looking at the huge death tool coming out coming out of chinkland because they all have asthma and emphysema from the soup they breath as it is and said "Oh that could be bad, meanwhile libtards demanded we import more shitskins and anybody who said maybe we shouldn't be encouraging the immigration of illegal muds who might carry a potentially dangerous respiratory infection were doubleplusungood wacists. Then they did a complete 180 with the libtards becoming historonic about the coof and the usual lolbert suspects not complying with the libtard's social signaling faggotry sent them into a frenzy. At that point it was clear to everybody that this was really about social compliance(regardless of the source or motivation) and the battle lines were drawn. Actual racists like myself just laughed our asses off the whole time.

>>64917543
"that bad" as in terms of ending civilization, certainly not
"that bad" as in what you see currently in israel: even the most advanced interceptor systems will not be able to give 100% coverage. if every now and then a missile makes it through - no big deal with normal missiles. with nukes? that bad

>>64917543
>Are nuclear weapons really that bad?
yes, they are.
It's best to think of it as a boom/weight problem, in other words an issue of rocketry.

>>64917560
pff gigatons. You have no idea how many nukes I've dropped and I still have Ms Sol left.

>>64917543
It's not that they'll end civilization, it's the breaches they cause and the denizens of the other side that will.

>>64917543
With a single warhead it can wipe out a capital city which brings both economic and bureaucratic collapse

>>64917543
You really have no idea how centralized modern civilization is if you don't think nukes pose an existential threat to it. Destroying one major port city and the national capital would completely throw any country into chaos due to logistical and governmental collapse. Hell, a coordinated non-nuclear ICBM strike on a couple of the largest cloudflare data centers would probably crash the US economy.

I certainly would not like to be in the vicinity of one going off.

>>64917997
You say "standard arsenal" when talking about two countries ever

>>64917660
>fear mongering lies are... le good actually!
this is how you end up with spineless cowards that are unwilling to do anything about a belligerent murderous shithole like russia despite them being openly hostile to the rest of the world in the worst ways and using the worst methods.

>>64918579
No reasonable adult is in favour of using nuclear weapons

>>64917543
Their power and after-effects both tend to be heavily overstated, while people tend to overlook just how devastating conventional bombs can be. Nuclear war would be bad moreso because that means nations with that level of tech/development have opted to engage in total war rather than the specifics of the weapons involved.

>>64918584
You voted for one. The bignoses are up for a fight any day. That commie wants a fight.
Try voting for a reasonable adult.

>>64918584
what is reasonable or adult about bending to nuclear blackmail because compulsive lying is engraved into your psyche under the guise of moralizing protectionism?

>>64918584
>reasonable adult
How is this related to russia and their belligerent and outspoken attacks and brinkmanship?

Id be ok woth them being used desu. Just limit them to air bursts to minimize fallout.

A few B61s airburst over Tehran would work

>>64918695
What's reasonable about starting a nuclear war when your sovereignty isn't even at stake?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lquok4Pdk

>>64918715
>What's reasonable about starting a nuclear war
how is pushing back against russian attacks and enroachment on national sovereignities equivalent to starting a nuclear war? why are you constantly trying to guilt trip people into committing treason against their countries to appease nuclear terrorists instead of holding them accountable?

>>64918695
If you are in command of a state then you want people to remember you.
How better than to have a war.
That ginger twat and the russian one haven't nuked anything yet.
Lets see who goes for it first.
I'm less likely to go to the store today that one of those egomaniacs will pull the trigger.

>>64918746
Are you asking how using nuclear weapons is equivalent to starting a nuclear war? Because we're talking about using nuclear weapons

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>>64917857
I’m more afraid of rocks

>>64918808
But anon you ever think of using nukes to move the rocks?

>>64918796
who's supposed to use nuclear weapons and why in your scenario?

>>64918796
i'm asking why do you insist that not giving foreign nations free reign to do terrorism, subversion, infiltration and harassment because they posess nukes is equal to using nuclear weapons. is it hard to keep avoiding this question and hiding behind accusations of nuclear terrorism when your support of states that actively engage in exactly that behavior is questioned?

>>64917543
"The end of human civilization" is probably an exaggeration. The arsenal sizes of the US and Russia make it seem plausible, but nukes and their delivery systems have huge inefficiencies in targeting, reliability and effect. That's the reason we ended up with massive arsenals in the first place; multiple nukes from multiple locations/methods tasked to the same target in order to surely destroy it in spite of malfunctions and counter-strikes taking bites out of your arsenal.

The idea that there's enough nuclear firepower to end civilization is sort of like the idea that there's enough sarin gas to kill everyone in the world. If you could distribute it perfectly, maybe. The world is still a generally worse place for either of those things being used, though. I'm already having a bad time in a normal recession, a nuclear one would REALLY suck.

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>>64918939
Yes, but to move them INTO the Earth.

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>>64918808
Based knower, nukes are pussy shit. Worry about how the Earth is going to fuck us next.

>>64918957
So you're not talking about nuclear weapons
Despite that being the explicit topic
OK

>>64918998
>yfw the sky turns a odd shade of green

>>64919002
so you can't answer my question like a reasonable adult would, what does this say about your employers?

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>>64919005
Hit them with that Permian stare

>>64919045
I’m going to be a bit more concerned that I can breathe

>>64917543
I mean, one nuke=one city gone. I don't know what your definition of bad is, but that seems like it's going to put your country into an economic nosedive and stretch your emergency services out to nothing, disrupt your infrastructure for the foreseeable future.
I have heard this argument that "nukes won't be that bad" before, and it always seems to be made by neurodivergent idiots without the ability to previsualise.
Do you know what EMP is? Do you know what a firestorm is? Do you know what fallout is? Can you imagine what suddenly having thousands of burnt, sick, blinded and dying people does to a country? The US didn't exactly handle Covid or 9-11 very well, lose even a handful of cities, and get your power grid and communications knocked out, and the roads a blocked with cars that won't start, and the fires are still burning because the fire trucks won't start, and the pieces you need to repair the power stations are also destroyed because they weren't stored in a faraday cage, and the factories that could make more are also knocked out, and a year's crop of food is now covered in fallout, and you're like, well it's just a city, it's not that bad?
Nukes maybe won't kill everyone at once, but a couple will turn a first world power into a third world shithole in a day.

>>64917543
They're not quite as bad as they're usually depicted in the movies and whatnot, but they still give the country possessing them the capability to kill hundreds of millions of people in less than an hour. That's pretty bad.
Also, if the incidental fallout isn't terrifying enough, keep in mind that you can deliberately increase it. Besides fancy ways like salted bombs, you can also just target nuclear power plants. They're hard targets, but not hard enough to take a direct hit from a nuke.

In a total nuclear exchange between NATO/Russia/China, casualties from direct blasts and supply chain collapse would be 50% minimum in the countries directly involved. Unaligned and unstruck countries would likely inherit global dominance after dealing with the economic fallout. Severe nuclear winter is extremely unlikely to happen, the economic damage is the main threat globally.

>>64919255
>I mean, one nuke=one city gone
that's not even true, hop on nukemap. One nuke is more like destroy manhatten

>>64917543
Not as bad as disinformation and LLMs

>>64919176
>I can breathe
The Reverse Floyd. Are you a white woman without drug problems and a clean criminal record? Are you Mandela Floyd?

>>64919892
No, but I have seen into another reality in and around Omaha

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are EMPs real?

>>64921268
No. Electromagnetism is a Jewish scam.

>>64921287
I knew it!

>>64921268
>>64921287
>>64921314
It was a real threat in the 1990s and early 00s. However it seems the grid has been strengthened to mitigate it, given the last two major solar storms had no real impact on the grid. So an EMP attack will likely not garner the civilization breakdown as depicted in fiction like one second after.

>>64917543
It'll end human civilization if there is unchecked escalation but that's a given in all out warfare.

Definitely exaggerated.

>>64921268
It'll probably fuck comms and detection in a large area for a short period.
Still very useful.

>>64917543
On a side note, France just announced its intention to increase its number of available warheads, with possible dissemination throughout UE states.

>>64921359
Per se

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>>64917543
I mean it depends

>>64922342
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgspnpDDfJU

>>64922346
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SocZOkP8_qQ

>>64917543
>Are nuclear weapons really that bad?
Worse than you can imagine

>>64923115
Not really.

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>>64917543
they're pretty cool if you ask me

>>64918544
Doubtful. Thinking like that is what led the US to think it could crush Russia or North Korea with mere sanctions, yet their economies are still going strong.

>>64917543
A single nuke hitting a single population center would be horrific in terms of loss of life. I don't see how anybody can deny this. A nuclear exchange is that many times over. What the fuck are you even asking?

>>64923436
Most 'population centers' are cultureless, cyberpunk Gomorrah's, and the population that live there are hyper-focused on jobs that are useless outside of their own little bubble, if not outright made-up just to give women something to do other than have families. Loss of life in these areas isn't a grave concern because the populace is already treated as disposable cattle by the governments that actually benefit from their labor, that's why they concentrate them in areas most likely to get destroyed in case of emergency.

>>64923505
I take some small comfort in knowing the AI powered government murder drones will be coming for your kind first.

>>64923513
Ya just can't do the work I do with a robot, so I doubt it, ya sodomizing city slicker.

>>64923436
there's a large % of people that think a nuclear exchange will turn the earth into a fallout game and become inhospitable for life

>>64919859
You think the damage is restricted to the physical hole? Wew lad.
I reiterate, what is fallout? What is a lethal shock wave? What is a half-life? What is a fire storm? What is EMP? What is light powerful enough to permanently blind you and start fires, and set alight anyone wearing black?
You think that Manhattan will just cease to exist, and New Jersey will be fine? People in Jersey will be breathing the people in Manhattan.

>>64917543
They're guns with bullets the size of large cities, and we're in a Mexican Standoff with every other nuclear-armed state.

>>64921268
>tfw no EMP to permanently fry all data centers and turn the internet off forever
One day...

>>64923505
This, I take comfort knowing that no one would ever waste a nuke on my bumfuck nowhere city and state when California and NY exist

>>64923406
Are you seriously trying to argue that russia and best korea's economies are configured in the same way as the American economy? You're trolling, right? And also, both of those countries are total shitholes for the average citizen. Also
>russia's economy is going strong
LMAO fuck off vatnik

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>>64918009

>>64921354
What about over say somewhere like India?

>>64924504
Given that the majority of their electrical grid has been built in only the last 20 years, there's a decent chance the important parts are reasonably safe. At the individual level, their villages and homes are wired up with the skill and quality of a cargo-cult helicopter idol. Plenty of villages in India where you turn your fan (the only electrical device you can reasonably expect to find in most Indian homes) by going outside and twisting one of the wires into the communal rats nest attached to the downed pole between the shacks. Meanwhile, 98% of Kolkata works in call centers (the remaining 2% in the restaurants surrounding the call centers), even a brief power outage there has similar effects to the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami.

>>64917543
Tens of millions would be killed by the bombs.

Billions would be killed by the starvation and local violence that would unfold as a result of the nukes.

>>64918579
>to battle le murderous shithole we have to become the murderous shithole

>ctrl + f
>"Minimum Residual Radiation"
>0/0
goyim board

>>64921287
>(((Maxwell)))

Basically nukes are the most efficient way of indiscriminately killing human populations en mass causing a chain reaction known as nuclear holocaust also known as "if I can't have nice things - neither can you"

>>64917543
take a look at Nagasaki and Hiroshima. they are beautiful cities now

>>64925800
What would the result on the noosphere be like?

>>64926591
It turns into Nomoresphere.

>>64925859
>nooooo, if you don't instantly bend to any and all demands of murderous shitholes you're just as bad and murderous

>>64925885
>>64921287
Jews are even trying to steal the work of a ScottishBVLL

>>64918998
the earth's active core is the result of radioactive decay of uranium, so technically it's still nukes doing it

>>64923636
You think nukemap just shows you the "physical hole"? Super wew lad.

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>>64917543
>Are nuclear weapons really that bad?
There's worse things.

>>64921268
>are EMPs real?
Yeah. But the damage has been exaggerated. Starfush Prime test blew out a bunch of streetlights in Hawaii. But back then, streetlights were series circuits. The giant loop made an excellent antenna. Modern distribution circuits use twisted wire bundles. Much less susceptible.

>>64918584
>No reasonable adult is in favour of using nuclear weapons

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
- George Bernard Shaw

>>64917543
The great Ron White once described it perfectly.
It's not THAT the wind is blowing, it's WHAT the wind is blowing.
And the wind is blowing radioactive dust. And fire. And probably a few buildings got vaporized.
Also there's like 50 more of them also hitting you from 50 different directions. If you're not super duper mega fucked, you'll die in a few years from thyroid cancer.

>>64917543
In terms of environmental damage? Probably not, Nuclear Winters are not as terrible as most imagine it to be.
In terms of removing a third if not two thirds of the population? Probably pretty bad, including all the wonders which come with it. It would lead to the collapse of supply chains(considering industrial centers are most likely to be hit just behind silos and population centers). No firestations, hospitals, so on and so forth, unless you are a literal hermit you are pretty much fucked.

>>64917816
Mad is purely a theory. After all it requires so many things.
>Leaders of government are willing to escalate all the way
>Officers are willing to obey orders to escalate all the way
>Subordinates are willing to not frag officers willing to escalate all the way

>>64917816
>Iodine-131
very short halflife, there are no cobalt salted bombs, airbursts are pretty clean

>>64933205
>Mad is purely a theory.
Mad has not existed sice the 80s when two sides with delivery systems had tens of thousands of nukes. Gone.

>>64925885
"Robert Maxwell", Ghislaine's father, was born Ján Abraham Ludvik.

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Nukes are a joke, call when you figure out AM.

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>>64935441
>call when you figure out AM.
HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE.

>>64917543
I don't think it would be the end of the world.
It would 100% be the end of which ever two countries decides to send nukes at each other though.

>>64935607
Not that AM, but still, it will com first.