I hate it!

>>42768159
this is somewhat true

>>42768498
it's 100% true the only people who deny it are people who think they can benefit from simping for foids

>>42768521
i think there is a slightly more dominant social problem

>>42768159
Actually true. Especially trans women who are more male aligned in sexuality (like I am, still hold very close to my heart being a fag), and as such are male exclusive and gay cis men (aka the two groups that least care about cis women, and have the least in common with them) end up suffering from this the most.

>>42768542
transitioning is an act of malice against male nature regardless of whatever rhetoric you spew behind the acts

>>42768806
it doesn’t matter what you think it is, I will keep fucking hairy male ass and take my estrogen shots and I don’t care about your opinion anon.

>>42768821
until the government takes away your estrogen

>>42768967
I don’t use “government” estrogen and I got a stash, don’t worry, I’ll keep pounding masc ass as a faggot tranny for a long while. <3

>>42768978
they can seize your stash

>>42768999
they can’t thankfully, private property is a real thing. Even if it weren’t, no matter how much you cope, estrogen is easy to get (if you know the right people). I WILL keep eating man ass. >:3

>>42769018
guns > private property

>>42769025
I’m not an ameritard xP

>>42768159
That little blue guy is so cute. He's like
>Aaah, nooo!

>>42769036
makes no difference, the American army can fly or sail anywhere

>>42770146
ur sooo annoying, I'm not going to stop fucking hairy guy ass xP

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>>42768528
philosemitism

>>42770158
that's not the issue...

>>42768159
I've actually been thinking about this for a while. Most of the hatred for MtF's comes from a place of misandry, I always felt.
>They're PERVERTED MEN trying to rape women in the bathroom! Because that's what demented men do!
>They're groomers trying to rape your child with their FETISH! Because that's what demented men do!
>They're men who can't make it as a man! So they try to become women as a copout!
90% of why people hate trannies always feels like it stems back to some reason like that. Also why I always thought that FtM's have it a lot easier in terms of transphobia, because the ones that don't stealth are just thought of as women, and women aren't inherently rapist monsters like men are.
I never understood why the LGBT movement doesn't try to deal with misandry at all, and only really seems to care about misogyny. Toxic masculinity is misandrist as absolute fuck, yet it's framed as a misogyny issue, which I always thought just alienated dudes who would otherwise think "hey this issue actually affects me too! I should care about it!"

>>42770389
misandry is commonly reframed as misogyny to avoid scrutiny

>>42770435
Which is just stupid and alienating, imho

>>42770594
women want men to feel as alienated as possible from society so they won't rebel and will just quietly slave away because they feel helpless to do anything else

women do not care about the issues men face

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>>42769018
Your estrogen stash is not private, but personal property.
>>42770201
The “issue” exists entirely inside your head.
>>42770389
True…

>>42770638
OKAY MARX IDC BRO ITS MINE ITS WHAT I MEAN BAKA

>>42770638
what an uggo

>>42768159
>boys don't cry
Reminder anyone that says they oppose this is doing a shittest to hold anytime you cry against you.

>>42770994
TRVKE

foids are privileged above men in all instances

>>42770389
That's what I've been saying! I had a conversation in a tranny thread about it like a couple months back, and the term they use to describe this is not misandry, but "transmysogyny". It's still misandry in my view. But if they call it that, feminsim implodes, so it's trans mysogyny. It's "I can't believe it's not mysogyny" mysogyny. Kek.

>>42772024
misogyny isn't real, we have a whole host of implicit and explicit social systems designed in place just to elevate women above men

>>42772024
Feminism absolutely would still work with misandry being a thing, hell it would probably be a lot more successful as a movement if they acknowledged it, but the problem is a LOT, and I really do mean a shitass load of feminists are just hardcore misandrists, the same way a lot of MRA's are hardcore misogynists.
So they'll do the most insane mental gymnastics to claim it's not real, like inventing BS terms like transmisogyny, or that if it is real, it somehow affects women the worst or that men deserve it. It's a bit crazy.
The only reason feminism WOULDN'T work with while acknowledging misandry is because a lot of those menhera feminist types would lose their absolute fucking shit, and if you called transmisogyny misandry, probably like 75% of all feminists would suddenly become TERF's

>>42772247
>misogyny isn't real, we have a whole host of implicit and explicit social systems designed in place just to elevate women above men
It's real, just not everywhere.
>>42772367
>Feminism absolutely would still work with misandry being a thing, hell it would probably be a lot more successful as a movement if they acknowledged it, but the problem is a LOT, and I really do mean a shitass load of feminists are just hardcore misandrists, the same way a lot of MRA's are hardcore misogynists.
Sane take. And pretty much. It's really unfortunate too, because for feminism to really make any more progress in the western world, it needs to fix men's problems. Even if you're so utterly absurdly hyper focused on only women's issues, men having so many problems that aren't allowed to be addressed is just stagnating any progress for helping women be happy.

Feminists could be saying "okay, now that women control the workplaces, we need to start taking care of men and making sure they have a role in our lives now that they have no role anywhere else." At least mysogyny, when it was rampent, cared a great deal about the wellbeing of women, even if in a paternal oppressive degrading way. So, where's that maternal care for men from women, now that men are abandoned? Where's that sense of female superiority and thus pity and social movements for men? Where's the effort and funding in putting men into traditionally feminine roles and valuing them and not making fun of them or calling them faggots for it?

I think a lot of it is because men and women have opposite problems. Men have all the autonomy they want, but don't have belonging. Women vice versa. So, we've given women autonomy, but we won't move on to giving men belonging, because in order to get to giving women autonomy, we needed to frame oppression not as a drout and neglect, but a drowning surplus of attention, and feminists are afraid that if that's lost, they'll be rightfully seen as oppressors.

>>42772534
no, it isn't real

>>42772367
>>42772534
so much based replies in this thread, it makes me very happy to know that others are aware of this problem and its not just me, thank you all

have a great day or night

>>42773396
note: I wasnt calling the "misogyny is fake" replies based, its obviously a real thing.

also, I had a discussion about misandry with a feminist friend before and shes told me that true feminists do care about men and oppose misandry

I personally think the sexists are fake bitches and dont care about feminism, they hide their misandry behind a movement that is good to make their misandry seem good or justifiable, bad people like to use good things to their advantage unfortunately.

sexist feminists should also not be given any attention since its blatantly not real feminism.

>>42773530
who are you or her to say what real feminism is?
if the average feminist would disagree and isn't stripped of that label that is feminism as it actually exists in society

>>42773941
because feminism by definition was always about making both genders equal to each other, is that not obvious?

>>42773964
definitions don't matter
actions do
you can "define" anything as anything else

>>42773964
feminism does nothing to help men

>>42773984
Nta, but feminism is about gender equality. If it has abandoned that end, then it has lost its roots in liberal ethics and needs to accept that it's an entirely subjective hate movement now with no basis in any ethical system trying to be objective.

>>42774030
you know that reminds me of the mens rights movement
feminism might be following the same path unfortunately

>>42774030
no, its about oppressing men

>>42774109
can you tell us why its oppressing men?

I dont expect a long answer if you dont want to write one, just why you think this

>>42774198
because the basis of feminism is believing they are unfairly oppressed by men, who are views as aggressive and sexually threatening
feminism doesn't treat men as individuals, it treats them as a collective threat to be neutralized for the benefit of holekind

>>42774214
historically women have been unfairly oppressed, its gotten a lot better now (majority of which is thanks to feminism) but in the 1900s women were just considered as housewives.

and real feminism was and still is never about treating men as inferior, rather to have women have the same rights as men do, to be equally the same no matter the gender, except for obvious parts which require separation in genders like bathrooms and sports (anti tranny reference)

and this is beneficial to men, since it removes the stigma around certain things that used to be considered only done by women, like cleaning and cooking, and even little things like having the woman propose a marriage instead of the man, this makes both genders be able to do things that used to be considered only done by a specific gender despite both genders being able to do them, and thus leading to a better life for both genders, especially women but also partly men.

the feminism your thinking of is not real feminism

>>42774331
No true Scotsman BS.

>>42774331
>and this is beneficial to men, since it removes the stigma around certain things that used to be considered only done by women, like cleaning and cooking, and even little things like having the woman propose a marriage instead of the man
NTA but the reason feminism has been falling very flat lately as a movement is *because* it doesn't address these problems. What feminism has done is bring women up to men's level, which is good, but the type of feminism practiced by most self proclaimed "feminists" completely ignores the other half of this, and leaves all the social expectations and stigmas of men completely untouched.

So it alleviated misogyny, but never addressed misandry, and now misandry is ironically one of the biggest roadblocks to equality.
>Any man that wants to be a gradeschool teacher must be a pedophile
>Any man that's in a low level job is completely worthless
>Any man that want's to get into childcare must be a pedophile
And as mentioned before, this bleeds into LGBT issues as well, where AMAB people are given the male treatment, which is why I personally think at least is why people hate MtF's, because they view them as men, and men only do the things they do because they're sexually minded, aggressive predators.

I'm not saying feminism is DOING these things (well, TERF's and a good deal of radfems definitely do) or are the cause of these things, a lot of misandry comes from the political right and traditionalists, but I really feel like it's something that should be more of a focus for feminism, as I do really believe that it's been completely ignored by 'mainstream' feminism so far

I'm tired as shit, I hope that was coherent.

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>>42774331
women were never oppressed
if your ideology relies on painting another group as perpetual oppressors, maybe, in fact, YOU are the oppressors running cover

>>42770389
>I never understood why the LGBT movement doesn't try to deal with misandry at all,
there's certain groups you'd be unwise to attack
as always, women are the jew of gender

>>42772534
>where's that maternal care for men from women, now that men are abandoned?
can't go around humanizing the designated Others in your hate movement, it'd torpedo the effectiveness of your crybullying hate speech, let alone the amount of gibs you'd be leaving on the table if you aren't as victim as possible

>>42776066
women will crush anyone who questions their power over society
they will start rumors about you, call you names, destroy your reputation, and turn others against you

>>42775027
call me schizo or whatever, but sometimes i think misandry is just innate to some degree
i've mostly left behind my former mra beliefs but male disposability still haunts me to this day

>>42768806
why even pretend to support AMAB trans people if you can't keep up the act for more than a single post

>>42776103
misandry is learned, women would starve without the help of men

>>42776107
trannies are agents of foid malice against malekind

>>42776114
You hate me just as much as the radfems do. I get it.

>>42768159
Misandry is fair, cause there used to be only misogyny. Misandry is how women respond to misogyny, there is no cure except if we stop misogyny (won't happen)
So everyone will suffer

>>42776114
you said this against an “mlm”, male loving tranny, who calls herself a homossexual male and only tends to like masculine cis male bottoms, out of all trannies, just so you’re aware.

>>42768159
i think it takes two to tango so where it is men's fault, it's equally women's fault. the reason men are allowed to be villainized is because women aren't held to account or otherwise taught to be integrous.

>>42776131
you believe you cannot love men as a man yourself without chemical alterations to nuke your libido, you are part of the problem, trannies are foid sympathizers who enable the worst aspects of the matriarchy with their actions

>>42768542
Are you that freaky hrt femboy who despite claiming to be amab only has fucked (and loved lmao) multiple ftms

>>42776147
You’re stupid, I just being feminine compared to masculine myself, anon. If I cared about nuking my libido (or even if I had done it) I wouldn’t take cialis and testosterone gel in my dick, nor would I top. And considering I hate foids, I don’t see what I’m sympathising with.

>>42770389
>They're men who can't make it as a man! So they try to become women as a copout!
This is just pure sissy misogyny, how do you twist in into misandry?

>>42776159
???? no? I only dated “amabs” all my life. I even tried dating other MtF trannies but I genuinely don’t feel attraction for anything other than cis men, and masculine preferably, sorry.

>>42776161
your empty words are directly contradicted by your pro-female, anti-male actions

>>42776176
you’re so boring, when I marry my masc bottom and worship his maleness while cumming inside his asshole, you’re invited to the wedding.

>>42770994
Its a sad movie based on true story of a trans man that died getting gang raped by transphobic men

>>42772024
Its not feminists calling misandry "transmisogyny" but trans women who don't like the word misandry

>>42776147
no i just wanna attract a real man, not a cocksucker.

>>42776201
closeted gay man = real man?

>>42776185
am I allowed to heckle?

>>42776114
women don't need men except for bearing children and protection (mostly from other men)
and men only need women to have and raise children
the extent of interaction between the sexes outside of marriage was incredibly limited throughout history

>>42772534
>At least mysogyny, when it was rampent, cared a great deal about the wellbeing of women, even if in a paternal oppressive degrading way.
Oke, this is delusional take

>>42776219
>women don't need men
let's see a nuclear power plant run ONLY by women without male help for a month, ok?

>>42776214
dude do you wanna go to the wedding or not :/ don’t be such a child

>>42776221
no it's more or less correct
misogynists basically see women as overgrown children at best and livestock at worst

>>42776236
only if I am explicitly allowed to heckle you both for being faggots while you give speeches

>>42776219
Nope, thats not true at all. Men and women used to cohabit and live in same spaces, working together unless you are thinking of some shithole country

>>42776231
It would be fine, there are women working in them, specially in eastern europe

>>42776231
most men can't run a nuclear plant either anon
there's lesbians too you know
and not just the trans ones

>>42776262
yes but with their immediate family members

>>42776238
Yes those women that are forced to wear bags to cover their body and can be beated legally by their husbands and who are sold to be sex and house slaves to old men as little girls are so well taken care of
Misandry is nothing in comparison desu

>>42776239
that would turn me on lol

>>42776292
Big family homes with extended family of both sides living was the norm in lots of places

>>42776276
the difference is, there are not ANY women who, on their own, could run a nuclear power plant
women are retarded holes only good for making babies

>>42776294
this is all very exaggerated
women want to wear the burqa, its a game for them to show that they are taken and that men HAVE to take care of them

men just are abandoned and die and nobody remembers or cares about them

>>42776294
i mean i said they're treated like livestock at worst
how does what you said contradict that?

>>42776303
yes but its still your family
not random strangers

>>42776318
You claim they have people taking care of them well being when in reality they are just dominated and used for their body/work. Whean a one little girl dies of internal bleeding, you just buy a new one

>>42776313
>women want to wear the burqa
They have no choice in lots of places
>its a game for them to show that they are taken and that men HAVE to take care of them
You are fucking disgusting

>>42776294
>Yes those women that are forced to wear bags to cover their body and can be beated legally by their husbands and who are sold to be sex and house slaves to old men as little girls are so well taken care of
>Misandry is nothing in comparison desu
I mean, you're literally using the worst example, and even there they still have a place for women. Women weren't being abandoned in cultures that like to abuse women.

>>42776313
>there are not ANY women who, on their own, could run a nuclear power plant
Yes they can, they learn it just like men do. Women study better than men so it would be 100% fine
Not something you need to be men for, this is a good example of misogyny

>>42776378
>Yes they can
prove it

>>42776373
Its not even worst example, worst are little girls whos pussy is sewn close and mutilated and they are married to old men as teens who rip their pussies open and rape them and force them to carry their babies
Or soldiers who go from village to village to rape little girls and then take them as sex slaves or kill them
Or some nepali women who are forced out of their homes during their periods cause they are so unpure and they have to live in some hut and get raped by random men
There are lots of way worse samples of misogyny
Misandry is always very mild by comparison

>>42776385
The fact that there are women already working in them is proof enough, god you are stupid

>>42776415
because they don't have to lead or run the whole thing, which they are incapable of, women are at best servants of more capable males who actually run the operation

>>42775027
I 100% agree with you, and I think I was tired too when I wrote my reply since it was about 2 AM and reading back on it I didnt seem to address much of the problem on feminists not focusing on misandry, I think the problem with that is in the name, feminism itself is considered a thing for women to do, rarely there are feminist men, so thus, it would focus on women because the majority of feminists are women, they don't see or understand that misandry is a big problem because they aren't men.

I think a solution to this could be to spread awareness to men that the movement is about them too, and that men need to start standing up for themselves and becoming more prominent in the feminism movement or perhaps even more drastic measures like changing the name or creating a different movement that specifically focuses on misandry, and im not talking about focusing on the men's rights movement since their belief seem to be against feminism, im talking about either make a new movement that opposes misandry and stands alongside feminism, or encourage men to engage more into feminism.

the reason the right wing works so well is because they can talk so well, especially to men, I personally think feminists dont do enough to make men aware that it's beneficial to them too, thus the lack of men feminists. Feminism needs to talk more, get on podcasts probably.

and just to clarify if anyone thinks otherwise, im a cis male, and misandry has negatively effected my real life, so I think im allowed to have at least some say in this topic.

>>42768159
this is completely true and the people most affected by it (trannies) will swear up and down that you're just a clueless chud for saying it. never seen a group of people so committed to fucking themselves over

>>42776351
you're delusional
even when women are reduced to objects they're still valuable objects

>>42768999
holy larp. do you jerk off to this?

>>42774109
If feminsim was always about oppressing men, then it has no ethical grounds to be a leftist movement. Inequality is more of a right wing thing.
>>42776404
>There are lots of way worse samples of misogyny
>Misandry is always very mild by comparison
This claim has always been gross to me. In the western world, the one that's supposed to be above things like brutally cutting people's private parts before they're even children, we still do it here.
We have women today saying that we need to have another war to kill all the excess men. To kill the incels. This sentiment isn't the first time, and the result has been brutal wars, or men shipped off to Timbuktu or Australia at any chance possible because men with no place are considered parasitic and threatening, whereas women with no place are opportunities.
And there have historically been pleanty of misandry. Every abandoned homeless guy. Every wretch worked to his bone until his demise, cast aside like a used condom. The disproportionate violence men recieve, because it's okay to be violent if it's toward a man. The ancient rituals where a man needs to "prove" his worth by doing some insane shit like fighting a lion or maiming himself or traveling in the woods with no food or else he gets kicked out of the tribe.

The father hating the son is a tale as old as time, and it's seen throughout the animal kingdom, as well as in ancient myths. Uranus was castrated by Saturn for trying to fuck over his children. Saturn was castrated by Jupiter for trying to fuck over his children. And the cycle would have gone on if not for Jupiter changing his nature by absorbing his wife.

>>42776428
none of the male workers would be capable of leading the entire operation either
it's just that most exceptional leaders are male

>>42776313
i don’t see you running a nuclear power plant but rather posting on 4chan presumably unemployed

>>42776544
i think he was flirting with me nona

>>42776551
I never said it had to be done by one person alone you dishonest weasel.
I said that women, without men, cannot run a power plant. Women are stupid.

>>42776552
they clearly have some kind of inferiority complex

>>42776561
do you have any proof other than your inane ramblings?

>>42776576
let's test it
train some women
have them run it
if there's a meltdown, we all lose

>>42776556
a lot of the guys here are freaks who would be avoided by all women irl and yet larp about their rape fantasies online

>>42776561
you know i said leader not sole operator btw
do you lack reading comprehension?
am i just arguing with chudgpt?

I don't understand why it's so controversial to state the obvious truth that men and women are good at different things.

>>42776584
you don't even understand how nuclear plants are constructed you fucking retard
meltdowns are prevented by design in modern plants

>>42776599
the scenario, from the beginning, was that women would have to operate a nuclear power plant without men, I don't know why you are trying to twist or contort my words

>>42776603
women are only good for making babies and useless for anything else except sadistic abuse of men and ritual sexual abuse of male bodies

>>42776619
>women are only good for making babies and useless for anything else except sadistic abuse of men and ritual sexual abuse of male bodies
Stop with the hysterics.

im glad that mass unemployment is coming. most of you do not deserve salaries or voting rights

>>42776619
if a woman can be an employee you can make a team of them
the only issue is leadership

>>42776603
i just think that's sexist and reinforces negative stereotypes because women can certainly be good at things men do and vice versa. the only thing holding women back is themselves and their insecurities, but the same goes for men as well.

>>42776649
splitting hairs to avoid admitting that women cannot do the job without men helping them in some way

The problem with modern women is they want to have two contradictory things at the same time. They want to make the same money that men do but they also want to date men who make more money than them and will pay for everything. They want to be free and independent but they also want to be dependent on a man.

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>>42776650
Women CAN be good at things men do, but it's like training a dog to walk on two legs. It can be done, but you're forcing something made for doing one thing into doing something else. There's also things women can do better than men can, and no one seems upset when someone points those things out. Only when people point out that there's things men do better than women.
The right way forward is not to completely deny reality and force women into roles that they were not ever meant to fulfill. The path forward is to acknowledge our differences and use them to compliment each other. Embrace what makes men and women unique and work together for a greater society. You know... Like how we did it for thousands of years.
Did you know the average happiness of women in America used to be higher than the average happiness of men in America? That trend started to reverse a few decades ago, coincidentally right around when women demanded to be let into the workforce en masse and abandoned their biological drive to have children.

>>42776684
>Women CAN be good at things men do
deafeningly loud buzzer sound

>>42776684
i think the average women can do most things except be effective leaders honestly
it's been a monumental failure in that area

>>42776720
The average 25 year old woman in America is weaker than a 14 year old boy. Even in non-physical feats of skill men typically dominate women (chess, video games, etc.). Why do you think sports were historically segregated? Don't be stupid. You're falling into the exact same trap that has caused women immense suffering over the past few decades.
>>42776709
In contrast to my reply to other person, the best player of a niche shitty video game I used to play (SMITE) was actually a woman. A real bitch too. But she could play a mean Scylla. That being said, my other women friends were absolute dogshit.

>>42776684
anon.
no one wants to go into stem.
men do it because money
women don't because they have easier means of acquiring money
you disencentivize women achieving on their own merit when they can just start an onlyfans instead.

>>42776818
>no one wants to go into stem.
I'm a man and I want to go into STEM, not for the money but because of my genuine passion and interest in microbiology. Do not speak for me.

>>42776777
for competitions, cortisol is literally decreased by testosterone and increased by estradiol

>>42768159
Be the man they accuse you of being and they will shut up.
It's weird that problems sometimes solve through self-fulfilling prophecies, but that's on the people pushing the issue.
Don't lose sleep on this shit.

>>42776777
idk why you assume that i must be some kind of woke feminist
obviously males and females have differences

>>42776919
I'm not assuming anything, I'm responding to what you're saying. You said "i think the average women[sic] can do most things except be effective leaders honestly" and I responded accordingly. I suppose it is true that you merely said they CAN do most things, not that they can do most things WELL. I did assume you meant to say "women can do most things well", not that you're a woke feminist.

>>42776823
being a researcher does not translate into profitability and sustainability. going into the study of microbiology does not put food on the table. eventually you have to get a job and by the nature of work, regardless of whether or not it pertains to an interest, if will always be work until you are disenfranchised with thing that initially interested you.

forced creation and forced innovation foster artificial evolution that is unsustainable.

>>42776962
You're a very sad person.
I don't have any problems putting food on the table. I live on my own and have no debt to my name. Just because you're very stupid and not good with money does not mean all of society is.

>>42776962
true to some degree
but most research is basically a luxury
mere survival has been trivial for millennia

You know it's telling that misandry is mostly just based on imaginary crimes and a few bad actors. While misogyny is usually based on how the typical woman actually behaves.

>>42768159
bump

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>>42772367
>if you called transmisogyny misandry, probably like 75% of all feminists would suddenly become TERF's
Yeah, probably

>>42768821
Until your dick stops working due to estrogen poisoning.

>>42776430
The biggest two problems are this.
1: A lot of feminists just don't care at all about misandry, and at worse, actively partake in it. Any time it's brought up as an issue there's a very hands off "not our problem" kinda approach to it at best, which ultimately is very self defeating. As if two problems could never be worked on at the same time.
and 2: Any term or movement for someone who wants gender equality has been completely astroturfed to shit by unironic misogynists.

If men stood up in feminist spaces with the hope of these problems being addressed, they'd be lambasted for mansplaining or trying to take over a woman's movement, a place where he has no right to be. Men that try to make new spaces are often unfortunately often seeded with shitloads of misoginists that, like a lot of misandristic feminists, use their own label to excuse their misogyny, and completely taint the whole meaning of the movement (in a similar way to how feminism as a term has been tainted, ironically).

But there's been a lot of growing discontent around these issues recently. So maybe feminism will do a rebrand of itself, or maybe there will be some new movement will pop up to address these problems.
I think that feminism has a huge chance to succeed and get a second wind as a movement if they would include this kind of stuff in their discourse, but I also think that too many femcels have ingrained themselves in the movement for it to really happen. I guess we'll just have to see what happens lol

>>42772367
>Feminism absolutely would still work with misandry being a thing
Feminism functions by rerouting all gendered harm into misogyny, thus maintaining a monopoly on gender discourse. This monopoly serves in advancing the interests of women, even counter to the simple recognition of male harm as harm. If male harm were recognized as harm, then this would detract from the rhetorical and political power focused on women – contradicting the objective of advancing women’s interests.

Not being able to funnel all gendered harm into misogyny would break feminism.

Men arent oppressed just cos ur an incel and a weirdo and nobody will be ur friend xx

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>>42768159
Men are fucking garbage like 80% of the time though? God forbid my tranny ass walks by a friend group consisting of males. You're all going to either make fun of me for being a faggot, or just straight up beat me.

Most males are violent apes, STOP PLAYING VICTIM.

>>42780767
The “fact” that all gendered harm is misogyny is the driving force which gives feminism its political power.

>>42780783
men are oppressed

>>42780767
>detract from the rhetorical and political power focused on women
Power shared is power lost.

>>42780431
majority of your reply just came off as "dont even try"

by your logic if men shouldn't try to advocate for their rights because they'll immediately get hated for it, then women in the early stages of feminism also shouldn't have tried to advocate for their rights because they'd immediately get hated on for it

I know if men advocated for their rights they would get hated for it, and I couldn't care less. if what you advocate for is a good thing, then you shouldnt be concerned of being hated for advocating it, and it just means the people who hate you don't want equality.

I think if male advocates were peaceful and obviously stated that they arent misogynist's, it shouldnt be a concern, the misandrists will most likely get hated on anyway because luckily most people think logically and understand that equality is a good thing.

im sorry if my reply seems rude because im not, I understand that you feel like it most likely wouldnt work and I kind of agree on that front, but it definitely wouldnt hurt to try if we really care enough about misandry.

>>42781441
they're looking for attention dont reply

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>>42781622
>Power shared
Better to conscript by claiming shared interest (“feminism cares about men too”, “feminism is equality for everyone”), and then subordinate: “Your problems are caused by the oppression of women, and the only solution is to improve things for women.” Trickle down equality.

>>42782259
feminism hates men

>>42781839
All good. Wasn't really my intention to sound defeatist. It's just one of those things that I don't really see an easy solution to. Though I think that, if it can at the very least be acknowledged as an issue, that can be very beneficial. Even if only on an individual level amongst larger movements, it'd be one of those uniting things, instead of one of those alienating things. "Hey man, the issues that you face are issues we face too. Let's try to solve it together." That's a very powerful thing, as simple as it is.

Like just imagining if transphobia was framed as a man's issue, "hey man, they think we're rapist monsters because they hate *you*", all of a sudden a lot of men would care a lot more about it in a more positive way, rather than getting pushed away from it and taking the opposing side because, well, that's the only place really even *offering* them a position and a solution to their problems, as poison as that position and solution is.

>>42768159
I think the saddest thing about misandry is that women (mostly cis women) will never overcome their hate. We have rightfully spent the last decade testing men for misogyny and giving them a way to overcome these tendencies; I think that in the west this has been mostly successful. Every man I meet has some sort of belief in equality and feminism, but this isn't true for women, they hold onto systems of power and have become drunk. We need a common way for everyone to call out women who engage in regressive power struggles.

My first thought is an equivalent for calling a women a incel virgin, but this is not perfect by any means.

>>42770171
It's negrolatry, actually.

>transmisogyny = misandry
holy mother of r9k incel retardation.
no, my little chud, not you nor trannies are "opressed" for being man. trannies suffer due to being a woman and trans.
all incels itt all sound like reppers.
every month there a stupid thread like this.

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>>42784004
>Transphobes see trans women as women
I don't think they see trans women as women, anon - that's sort of the problem

>>42784217
people are too brainwashed to admit women are ever oppressive towards men, it breaks their programming

>be normie NPC
>constant exposure to social programming
>talking heads say woman good, man evil
>someone says man not evil
>your head explodes

>be incel
>take the "redpill"
>treat women like objects and stupid animals
>someone says women are people too
>your head explodes

this thread in a nutshell

>>42785683
women are stupid holes, they aren't people and they don't act like people

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>>42782793
>My first thought is an equivalent for calling a women a incel virgin, but this is not perfect by any means.
I don't know what the most biting word for it would be, but it would be whatever removes victimhood status and makes them the oppressor. Even many wealthy women in 1st world countries seriously consider themselves as categorical victims and make it a huge part of their identity. See how wealthy celebs use half-hearted woke messaging as therapeutic self-justification. Telling these women that they're victimizing boys and especially sexually minorities like mtf is a lot more hurtful than saying they're femcels. The only downside is that a lot of women don't even have the empathy to care if boys make less money or get circumcised or are expected to destroy their bodies with menial labor, but at least make them say it.

>>42786696
the fact that we don't even have language to call females oppressors says a lot about society whereas there are dozens of words that imply that a male is unwanted or harmful (creep, loser, incel, rapist, pedo, fag, etc)

>>42776201
...lol

too bad
let me choke on tranny gock

>>42786714
that's very true, the few terms that put women in positions of power ("girl boss", "boss bitch") are really only used in a positive light

>>42786995
language reflects power structures

>>42768159
Bump

>>42789727
thanks

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>>42768159
Probably agree
>t. Cis HRT femboy who got beaten up by mom for being the male child of an abuser and also beaten up for being too feminine
>>42768806
No it is not.

It let me keep neotenous features that bring me comfort.
Having meded since teens, while deranged gave me enough stability to go through school and become a doctor.

If you support your fellow man then you should support my rights as a man to control my body if it helps me function as a man better.

I imagine if twink death had hit I wouldn’t be able to function anymore. Stop being like paternalists who hate men.

I vow to tolerate any of your quirks so extend the same brotherhood to me pls.

>>42790504
>cis

>>42782259
Men's and women's conditions are interconnected, but you can't solve one by focusing exclusively on the other.

>>42791828
you can if one group is in total control and doing nothing but oppressing the other group with their power

>>42791842
Is “the group” in control, or are individuals from the group in control? And are things meaningfully different when the other “group” is in control?

>>42791842
Isn't "in control" more about elites vs. everyone else?

>>42792057
no, foids vs moids

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>>42792087

>>42792157
"most fundamental form of social inequality and conflict" - i.e., all inequality and conflict comes from men oppressing women. Solve men oppressing women, and you solve all inequality and conflict. "Radical" as in "root" - solve the root problem.

>>42782711
>just imagining if transphobia was framed as a man's issue, "hey man, they think we're rapist monsters because they hate *you*", all of a sudden a lot of men would care a lot more about it in a more positive way

well a problem with that is men who are right wingers consider being transgender as a mental illness and they're very proud of that theory, I agree that them assuming trans people are pedophile rapists comes from some sort of deep misandry, but they can probably just say your a mentally ill trans person for thinking were basing this off all men, and then move on

but it feels convincing enough to work as an argument to anyone who doesn't immediately associate transgender with mental illness. Also remember, right wingers do a lot more secret misandry then just that, like saying you need to be masculine, men should work hard jobs while women are housewives, men should marry and have kids, and other things you can probably search up. of course not all right wingers think like this but, it sure does seem a majority do, or at least the stereotypical ones. and the irony that they claim to be anti feminist because it oppresses men, despite there ideology and the way they think men should be is blatantly misandrist, perhaps its as if misandry comes more from right wing men then it does right or left wing women...

> taking the opposing side because, well, that's the only place really even *offering* them a position and a solution to their problems
yep unfortunately true, redpill content creators constantly tell men (who are majority teenagers) that all of there problems is because of feminism and the left and such. and it makes them feel safe to finally feel like there problems are talked about so they get into that community, I think leftists need to organize a more central community and advertise themselves more, perhaps a forum for all people, to have serious (but peaceful) discussions and make friends, as well as having good moderation.

>>42792349
to add onto the "internet forum for all people" idea, accepting "all people" especially might be important to help the right consider switching to the left

lots of right wingers (formerly) including myself commonly got into it from being told by close people that the right is good and you need to be a right winger, until they later do research and decide they actually think the left has a better ideology, so their views change, they try to join left winging communities, but worry they'll get ostracized due to there past if they ever mention it. having a forum with categories to discuss these issues, providing some support to those switching definitely sounds like would help in making the left stronger.

I know this is pretty off topic from misandry and I apologize but its an idea thats been itching at my mind for quite a while, so many internet forums exist for the right, where they provide lengthy explanations of their ideology and an active community that pushes that ideology to people, so why does the left not have a similar forum?

technically, this might kind of help with squashing misandry, more pushing from the left would mean right wing people would feel less comfortable telling men what they can and cannot do.

I think a well moderated, and safe judgement free zone to have all kinds of discussions neatly organized in different categories, even ones that might not be very comfortable to discuss, would help a lot. but I might be thinking too far ahead, were on the internet after all, a forum like that would be a big target.

up

>>42773964
>because feminism by definition was always about making both genders equal to each other, is that not obvious?
No. You could just say you're egalitarian. What do you think the "femi" in feminism is referring to? It's pro-females. Imagine someone created a movement called meninism. Why would you assume they're focused on making men and women equal? Instead of being pro-men at any and all costs? Can you point out any prominent feminists who advocate for men's struggles?

>>42794897
>namefag

>>42794933
You have no counter-argument so you respond with this

>>42792349
>the irony that they claim to be anti feminist because it oppresses men, despite there ideology and the way they think men should be is blatantly misandrist
in conjunction with
>>42782711
>that's the only place really even *offering* them a position and a solution to their problems, as poison as that position and solution is.
and the right is presenting a masculinity which acknowledges that it's targeted and doesn't, on the face of it, blatantly denigrate men. A third option is needed - which trans people might be able to contribute to - which is not either you must be stereotypical, from the right, or that you're fundamentally toxic, from the left.

That we've seen men migrate to the right when being pushed out of the left could mean that it's less a solid vision of what men are, and more an escape from being told what they are not (decent human beings). Perhaps all that would need to be offered would be space - not a vision of what men need to be, or how they're bad - but just space to be what they are, and can be supported as humans.

>>42796488
Men are being pushed out of the left, and the right is exploiting that by funneling them into a narrow vision.

>>42792491
>so many internet forums exist for the right, where they provide lengthy explanations of their ideology and an active community that pushes that ideology to people, so why does the left not have a similar forum?
The internet forums for the right are partly a response to lacking a space within academia, etc. - a reason the left doesn't have them as much is that they have academia, etc., instead.

I hate foids!

Why are women so evil?

>>42790807
What
It’s true
I could get FFS and even SRS and so long as I go “I identify as male, I was born male” i am a cis male

Also it’s important to let him know I’m not an afab femboy.

>>42797782
larp

>>42797721
men let them

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>>42798291
It’s true
And I’m a cis male. I think getting beaten up for being male fucked me up or something because I feel much safer with neotenous features.
Anyways, I have much sympathy for male suffering even if incel chuds hate me. Also obviously I’m not a misogynist, I hate people being hated for whatever they were born as

>>42800521
women are hated for their actual behavior
men are told they are dangerous rapists just for being born male

>>42800539
>get hate from parent since I was an abusers kid, and male
>constantly told I was “changeling”, monster and destined to die at the electric chair because I’m male
>now get hate from male rights proponents despite me making it clear I’m still under your flag
Life is funny
Femboys on HRT are not your enemy btw

>>42801207
>not your enemy btw
There is too much of people classifying some other group as the enemy – gone is the ideal that one should suspend prejudgment.

The left does this with men (>>42792157 “men are the women’s main enemy”) and then wonders at the consequences.

>>42802703
Firstly, I said we are under the same flag so why treat me like an outsider?
> The left does this with men
Why did you link to radfems when those hate mtfs/femboys for being born male?

I don’t judge anyone for what they’re born into but I dislike those who dehumanize males. Honestly scary when I see it, if it wouldn’t be okay with women then it’s not okay here.

I’m also skeptical of DEI/Woke stuff because it’s at risk of sliding to punish males for what they were born as

>>42802807
Sorry - I should have said nta - I'm not who you replied to. And I disagree that you should be treated as an outside - it doesn't work to the benefit of anyone except those who dislike amabs as a category.

>if it wouldn’t be okay with women then it’s not okay here.
Agreed.

bit ironic for trannies to be complaining that others are trying to fight gender wars

>>42803555
yes, very

>>42776294
nobody here lives in afghanistan bro shut up

>>42803555
I try to avoid gender wars, I actually hate any us vs them. I’m repulsed by hatred off males because they ultimately will come for mtfs/femboys.
You’re too purity obsessed. That’s the same as feminists who hate men for daring to be born male.

>>42807273
the matriarchy must be overthrown

>>42768159
Men are soulless evil rapists. Kill all men.

>>42807288
you weren't born feeling this way

>>42807288
>jews are soulless evil rapists. Kill all Jews.
How very Nazi rhetoric of you.

If it helps you, just think about the fact that women/girls have been second class citizens for the vast majority of the human experience. The life of the average woman is being impregnated at 14 by an abusive middle aged man and to die young/at child birth.

Perhaps if we ever get to communism, we will have real gender equality.

>>42808628
most women don't die during childbirth and never did

foids are holes

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>>42808628
> IF iT HeLpS YOu, JuSt THInk ABoUt the fAct ThAt WOmen/GirlS HAVE bEEN SECoNd claSS cItiZenS foR THe vaST MAjoriTY oF thE HUMan ExPeriENcE. THE LIFe Of THE averagE WOmAN is bEiNg iMpREGNatEd aT 14 bY An abUsiVE miDDLe AgEd man And to die yOUnG/At CHIlD bIrTh.
What happened to someone other than you is a terrible reason to either claim special privileges or discriminate against others who have not done wrong.
Like I said, after being chased with a hammer I can say the mistreatment of mothers is just as likely to propagate suffering to sons as daughters.

I’d rather help the right than join in if you’re going to “punish” me or others who have my chromosome.
It’s too bad the red pilled are too tribal, to collective judgment based and not individualist and libertarian enough since the fall of DEI/Woke lead to a replacement new boss that’s maybe worse.

>>42807288
Whatever
You'll have to take us all on and lose

Sorry poonahtroonah

>>42808628
It's funny how some people cling to victimhood, we all know it's not like that for most women. I'm sorry bad things happen to "good" people, it's no excuse for what's happening right now.
please do better

>women in the past had it rough so all men need to pay the price for it now
this is exactly what the women in my family told me when abusing and torturing me and sending me to conversion camp

women all my life have told me i deserve to be tortured and killed in a prison for being born male, have tried to make it happen multiple times, then are surprised when i have no sympathy for them

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>>42808628
>>42808636
Across time and across country women have lived longer than men?

i think the problem is that gender expectations and stereotypes hurt everyone in general, and that humans in general are just naturally discriminative and want to find anything they can to find an out group to put someone else in to feel superior.

we all hurt. women get stupid shit done/said to them simply because they are women.

men get stupid shit done/said to them simply because they are men.

even enbys. trans ppl get it different too.

trying to find out who 'has it harder' won't really help anyone find a resolution and more often than not leads to constant useless, foolish, hateful bickering.

all that can be done is to try not to unnecessarily inflict the same suffering onto others that we receive ourselves.

>>42810951
The problem with this "everything sucks for everyone" mentality is that only one sex believes it. Women genuinely believe every single man is a privileged oppressive trillionaire. Men want to improve the world for everyone, women want to improve only their only lives, and actively want to worsen everyone else's.

>>42810985

i don't think that's a realistic thing to say.

not every woman thinks that the average man is privileged and oppressive. that is a rather extreme viewpoint for the average woman to hold. however, it is easy to think that the majority of women hold this viewpoint because most times, those speaking on the topic of male privilege in relation to all men will be biased toward the idea that all men benefit from it. this is only made worse by the fact that tv/social media is more likely to present more extreme, controversial, engagement-earning social views. making this even worse is that people would be more willing to accept those extreme thoughts in order to cope with some sort of trauma.

in reality, off the screen, i think it's reasonable to say that while the average woman acknowledges a social imbalance between men and women, she does not believe that every man is a 'manipulative conniving dictator!' to put it in someone else's words lol. if given a choice between pressing a button that would instantly cure the world of all its societal problems regarding gender, and another button that would kill all moids, she'd more likely press the former.

the same thing goes for what men want. it's pretty obvious that most men are uncomfortable with the injustices that face women. if you are a man, i could imagine that you could feel frustrated that you were born into a world that has historically done such shitty things for women and created a societal structure which has made women feel as if they are the underdog.

however, it's just not reasonable to ignore that there are men in power who have and still are willingly contributing to these exact issues. men raping, men who didn't want women to vote or work, men who deeply want to hurt women, men who don't give women credit, men who do all sorts of shit things.

so no, the reality is not that "only one sex believes" that our biases and arrogance are keeping us stagnant. in fact, it's the opposite: society grooms us into picking one side or the other. no, not everyone will realize this but if one has the time to endlessly bicker about how one has it worse then one also has the time to critically think and realize that this gets nobody anywhere.

my point is that people should try to end the cycle by being the bigger person rather than thinking that trying to prove that whoever thinks differently than them is retarded. that isn't how people are convinced.

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>>42768159
misandry and misogyny are the same thing

>>42811476
Misandry and misogyny are related - misandry and misogyny are not the same thing.

>>42811428
>it's pretty obvious that most men are uncomfortable with the injustices that face women.
But not vice-versa – most women deny that men even face injustices.

>>42811476
TRVTHNVKE
>>42811524
Sneed
>>42811437
Actually yes
I promise to join the first side that promises to treat everyone fairly regardless of what social class they were born into

>>42811428
>male privilege
You’re not going to “end the cycle by being the bigger person” with that rhetoric. Let alone by othering.
It’s probably not true this century, given their worse economic/educational status, outright career discrimination under DEI and lack of legal protections.
> if given a choice between pressing a button that would instantly cure the world of all its societal problems regarding Israel, and another button that would kill all Jews, she'd more likely press the former.
Do you see how unhinged that sounds? I’m pretty sure most chuds wouldn’t actually press the billions must die button either.
>it's just not reasonable to ignore that there are men in power who have and still are willingly contributing to these exact issues
Women voted for the Epstein list leaders (mostly because they hate mtfs) and are and were involved in carrying out and covering up crimes. Just because someone is part of a class doesn’t make them good.
>hurt women
I assume you don’t care about the severe violence I suffered as a child, which by the way I now recognize was done to renact domestic violence. Just because I had the misfortune of being a male child.
>raping
This happened and I never got any help because I’m legally male. There is not only violence but also a lack of privilege. You’re going to say it’s VAW but you only care about exploiting what happens to others to increase your power. When it comes time to protecting you instead want to hoard everything for yourself.
You are exactly like those exploitative men.

I’m a moderate, and I’ve had liberal beliefs in the past and I’m that femboy anon and to be honest I fear DEI and leftist identitstianism that might dehumanize and punish people for what they were born as. I actually fear you more than the current right that is incompetent and lacks staying power.

I fear what you are going to do to me if you return to power.

>>42811524
DEEP

>>42812187
I fear the right far more than I fear the left.

You need your head examined if you're queer and don't.

>>42812752
both sides hate me for being gay and male, but the left is slightly more terrifying because they pretend to accept me while quietly shunning me and talking behind my back

>>42812752
The left wants to turn your city and neighborhood into an anarcho-tyranny brown shithole. Maybe you are not white yourself, but as a member of the LGBT community you should be concerned considering whites are most likely to treat you with respect or at least tolerate you. You think white christians are bad wanting you to get conversion therapy and other whites calling you fags? While muslims and other browns will publicly execute you (stoning, hanging, throw you off rooftops). There is a small but significant minority of brown people especially among blacks who are low IQ, impulsive sociopaths who will stab you for no apparent reason like in the case of Iryna Zarutska and Austin Metcalf. You can keep ignoring the reality of the changing demographic situation, but it won't ignore you.

>>42812966
>the right is against using brown people as cheap labor
lol

>>42801207
We need our own femboy army, fr.

>t. military trained hrtwink

>>42807273
>I’m repulsed by hatred off males because they ultimately will come for mtfs/femboys.
that's realistically what's happening with TERFs - they literally approach the mtf side as rapists onto their new strategy to rape the poor widdle women

>>42773964
feminism sought to further separate afabs from amabs through the elevation of them as a protected class.

>>42810726
You can see WWI and WII, and Sweden’s non-involvement, in the plots. Males are sent to die.

In Ukraine trans women are not exempted... In the U.S. the draft is based on assigned sex.

>>42812752
The left rn is more likely to split people up by class at birth. That is an anthema to my beliefs. What makes it worse is they even use class at birth as a heuristic for morality/worthiness. The ‘male privilege’ sounds too similar to Nazi rhetoric about Jews controlling everything (I don’t like Israel but I’m not dumb enough to judge people by class at birth).
That quickly gets to leftchud experiments like ‘press the red button to exterminate everyone with a Y chromosome’ and then I recoil. It does not matter if you claim to be okay with femboys/mtfs, if you killed everyone else in their category they know you can and will revoke your tolerance. And I’m saying this as someone who works in a very female dominated field and am worried the pet femboy status could instantly be revoked.
You promise perpetual second class citizenship to anyone born unlucky. That makes you the bad guy.
>>42812966
> anarcho-tyranny brown shithole
Learn to shoot and stop being basedpilled.
Also trump promised unlimited H1B’s so we’re going to brown shithole where they give foreigners all the good jobs because they’re subservient and cheaper https://placement-international.com/blog/trumps-new-proposal-green-cards-for-us-college-graduates
There’s a reason huge parts of his base have already abandoned him and the getting Americans mass fired because pedophile billionaires want slaves instead and helping them traffic was a big part of it.
Right is just as deranged as the left but its absolute lack of competence means no staying power. So short term, I want the Epsteinist pedo billionaires to lose but long term I need to make sure Karen doesn’t press the genocide all men button.

It kind of sucks because there is no libertarian egalitarian (as in we treat you fairly and the same if you’re a man or woman or whatever) faction

>>42812984
Based?
I’m barely adequate w guns and running but I am a doctor so maybe I can help?
>>42815806
Either both sides are drafted or if not veterans do deserve privileges and favors on account of their suffering for the whole

>>42815806
women should be sent to die

>>42815968
>It kind of sucks because there is no libertarian egalitarian (as in we treat you fairly and the same if you’re a man or woman or whatever) faction
We've moved away from this and somehow that's seen as progress.

>>42811476
>misandry and misogyny are the same thing
If they’re the same then why the asymmetry in:
-Focusing on misogyny will solve misandry as a byproduct
-Focusing on misandry just reinforces misogyny

>>42818432
If they’re not the same then why the symmetry in:
-Focusing misandry on will solve misogyny as a byproduct
-Focusing on misogyny just reinforces misandry

>>42812966
> While muslims and other browns will publicly execute you
It didn’t work well when they tried that with rittenhouse.
He literally shot off a guy’s arm for trying, so as long as you keep stand your ground laws it’s fine. Trump is trying to disarm Americans, especially lgbt rn so his H1B’s can kill them btw.

>>42818639
If A=B then doing something to A has the equivalent effect as doing it to B, because A=B. Asymmetry between A and B shows that the way they’re formulated is different.

Misogyny and misandry are abstractions of complex phenomena – these abstractions are, in some sense, social constructs.

>>42818739
Focusing on misogyny just reinforces misandry
The same as your valid
> -Focusing on misandry just reinforces misogyny
But your very basedjacked and privileged
> -Focusing on misogyny will solve misandry as a byproduct
Is shit. How is telling mothers with abusive husbands that the enemy is men (rather than their partner who should be punished individually) not going to encourage them to engage in domestic violence, remarkably male type domestic violence at that, against their male children (who they did not want) under the rationale that the children are future abusers?
Both are true. It’s symmetric, and you’ve betrayed you find children born with a Y chromosome being abused acceptable. If not worse.
>>42812752
You can’t explain how you aren’t going to make good on your threats to harm people because what they were born as. Anyone lgbt supporting that through process needs their head examined.

What is the male equivalent to a foid walking around with her tits out but the nipples barely hidden?

>>42818895
I am not saying that either of these are true - I am saying that this is how misandry and misogyny are conceptualized:
-Focusing on misogyny will solve misandry as a byproduct
-Focusing on misandry just reinforces misogyny

It is neither true that focusing on women automatically translates to benefits for men, nor is it true that focusing on male well-being automatically translates to female harm.

The asymmetry is in the conceptualization of "misandry" and "misogyny". These are not neutral descriptive terms - they are embedded in a one-sided politics. Hence the asymmetries.

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>>42818913
A femboy on HRT walking around with his tits out but it’s debatably legal since his license says M and so he gets away with it

>>42819015
You portrayed both as true premises. In reality the only way things will ever get better is if you stigmatize Both misogyny and misandry.

>>42819072
The premise was “misandry and misogyny are the same thing”.

It’s this equivocation (misogyny = misandry = sexism, it’s all the same at root) which allows both the claims:

1) (Appropriation of misandry) Solving misogyny will automatically solve misandry – because they’re both just sexism (therefore anyone who cares about misandry might as well focus exclusively on misogyny)
2) (Inversion) Improving things for men will harm women – sexism is the privileging of men and the relative deprivation of women, so directly improving things for men can only exacerbate sexism

Misandry and misogyny are not equivalent - neither at the level of abstraction (politics), nor at the level of lived experience.

Not to read into the motivation of the original poster, but the misandry=misogyny=sexism claim is often used to claim ownership over male harm, and redirect towards female interests. A way to deny that male harm is in fact *male* harm.

>foid simps dissolve the conversation to prevent discussing individual experiences with misandry or social thoughts on misandry in general to be some weird definition argument rooted in nothing

>>42819622
I’ll break it down:
-Both 1 and 2 preclude attention on misandry (they’re a power move to keep misogyny centered, and misandry de-centered)
-Both 1 and 2 are false
-We can see that 1 and 2 are false because they depend on a premise which is not self consistent with 1 and 2, because of the asymmetry between misogyny and misandry. The claim is, in effect, both misandry=misogyny, and misandry!=misogyny – a contradiction

The argument is that we should not let misandry=misogyny claims derail from being able to name and focus on misandry

>>42819622
to be fair 90% of arguments are about definitions, so it is what it is. I really don't know what to do with the pain women in my life have given me, as a trans women. I just want it to go away but things don't work like that.

>>42819718
we can only talk about the suffering and oppression women experience

>>42819735
>we can only talk about the suffering and oppression women experience
And claims such as misandry=misogyny are one mechanism used to enforce this. Talking about the suffering and oppression men experience is derailed when the conversation is redirected to misandry=misogyny=sexism, so lets just talk about misogyny.

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>>42768159
nearly a week of this atomic TRVKE being up, well done
the matriarchy trembles when men discuss their agency within a society built for women

>>42820129
women can't have agency because that means women are capable of organized malice and according to them that doesn't happen and cannot happen as they are perpetual nurturers

>>42819609
No offense but the following rhetoric reminds me of sex predators I’ve run into. Pompous claims of moral superiority are their MO and I’ve got great pattern recognition.
>1) (aPpropriAtioN of miSaNDRY) soLViNG MIsogyny will AutoMATIcaLlY Solve mISAndry – BeCaUSe tHEy’RE bOtH JUst seXism (THeREfOre AnYONE WHo CaReS ABOUt MiSANdrY might aS wElL FocuS eXCLuSiVeLY on MisogyNy)
Why would telling people anyone male is a predator and that you can punish someone (a child) to obtain justice over what a specific criminal eliminate sexism?
>2) (INvERsion) iMPROVInG tHiNGS foR MeN WIll HArM woMeN – SExisM Is thE pRiviLEGiNg oF meN AND THe RELATIVE DEPrIVatIOn oF wOmeN, sO DirECtly imprOvIng THINGS For mEN CaN Only exAceRbaTe SeXiSM
How would telling people collective punishment or discrimination based on sex is immoral? What is the privilege in 21st western countries?
>the misandry=misogyny=sexism claim is often used to claim ownership over male harm
I like it because after thinking it over, the pattern of childhood abuse I suffered was almost verbatim a clone of what battered wives suffer. It’s genuinely very twisted and symmetric.
Also sexual assault. It’s likely the responsible thought I was female but being male you have no protections.

>>42820375
Did you miss the part about both claims being false? >>42819015
>It is neither true that focusing on women automatically translates to benefits for men, nor is it true that focusing on male well-being automatically translates to female harm.

I don’t think we’re on different sides, so I’m not sure why you’re attacking me?

>>42819794
>misandry=misogyny are one mechanism used to enforce this
No, at least when I went along its more of asserting that misandry is just as bad as misogyny.
And also because I realized the violence against me (by a female caretaker) was identical to what a few bad men might do to some women.
It’s a ‘women do this too’ thing.
I am disgusted if someone goes and says
>Improving things for men will harm women – sexism is the privileging of men and the relative deprivation of women
About stopping violence against boys when not getting beaten up for who you are should be a universal right.
And I can help the right out of spite if they are set on harming me for being male.

>>42820491
I realize now.
I just bumped into rhetoric that I had seen used in the past to justify physical and sexual violence against me and lost my cool.

>>42820639
Saying the one is as bad as the other is a bit different from saying that they are the same thing. Sometimes people use "they're the same thing" to substitute "it's misogyny" for "it's misandry" - the consequence is that the conversation is then no longer about male harm, but redirected to female harm.

>>42820834
this anon is wasting your time, they just will do anything to avoid admitting women make men suffer on purpose

>>42820866
Which anon is "this anon"?

>>42820866
“Not all women”.
If I vilify everyone without a Y because some factions of an identitarian ideology some are part of are violent towards males and dehumanize them I’d be acting the same.
I want the moral high ground.
And I hate the idea of judging someone based on whatever they were born as.
Also some are friends.
I don’t want DEI for males I want fair treatment for everyone.

>>42821381
>I hate the idea of judging someone based on whatever they were born as.
This.

>>42820129
I too am surprised at how alive this thread has been kept, I didn't bother replying to people because I assumed this would die in a day.

>>42821826
bump

>>42820129
>men
There are also trans women here - it's just that we get essentialized as men, and are thus targeted.

>>42824939
targeted!

>>42768159
Actually it's a class of connected, wealthy, evil people who have been doing their absolute best to make things as miserable as possible for the rest of us and indulge in their increasingly depraved urges without reprecussion that is the greatest unsolved problem of our society.

Misandry is a tool of that, like everything else that divides us.

>>42768159
>boys don't cry
>man up
okay so feminism speaks about this

>>42826153
>Men just need to stop being toxic.
"Toxic masculinity" is a term - "toxic femininity" is not.
"Male privilege" is a term - "female privilege" is not.

>>42826266
ya because men have priviledge in general. just because you're getting minimum wage doesn't mean stacy has it any better.
>>Men just need to stop being toxic
also not what i said, read the text again please

>>42826291
>because men have priviledge in general
So do women


>>>Men just need to stop being toxic
>also not what i said
This is the default feminist stance, and you were talking about how feminists speak.

>>42826314
>so do women
please transport me to the wonderful matriarchy universe, because it isn't this one.

>the default feminist stance
that's really reductive and shows a lack of willingness to engage with any feminist principles

>>42826334
>because it isn't this one
You've already named two examples yourself:
-Women are allowed to cry
-Women are not forced to "man up"

>lack of willingness to engage with any feminist principles
Are you saying that it's not true that feminist uses "male privilege" and not "female privilege"? Not true that it uses "toxic masculinity" but not "toxic femininity"? These are very principled asymmetries.

>>42826354
>two examples
yeah, and men not being allowed to cry or man up without being considered feminine faggots(it all circles back to misogyny) wouldn't be a thing in a hypothetical feminist utopia

>not typing all that
don't really like the use of the word toxic personally. but it is objectively true that on average, men will be more misogynistic than women. the common derogatory use of "body count"(random example) online is plenty of evidence i feel.

>>42826385
>it all circles back to misogyny

>women being told not to be manly is misogyny
>men being told not to be womanly is also misogyny
Predictable.

>>42826418
i will assume you've conceded the argument.

>>42826445
lol

>>42770389
This is true but it used to just be straight up homophobia. However calling transwomen faggots became unacceptable so transphobes flipped to using the misandrist angle to bash transwomen since no-one cares about misandry.

>>42826484
homophobia and misandry are very closely related

>>42826484
nta
but the bashing trans women get is not because of misandry anon.

>>42826901
see
>>42784217